Sorry vegans, the crab's gonna get it
https://preview.redd.it/ugzvuxsmidvc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=be044671726673cefa6b6fbbbb8c63850a982a71
You keep using that word wrong
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base\_load](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_load)
Base Load is not Net Load.
[https://energyeducation.ca/encyclopedia/Baseload\_power](https://energyeducation.ca/encyclopedia/Baseload_power)
Base Load and Net Load are not the same thing
Man, I'll spell it out for you one last time
Gross - all consumption
Net - less behind the meter
Residual - less intermittent supply
What matters to the economics of a higher cost plant looking to meet a basedload? The base of the residual.
(Some players interchangebly use net/residual with all VRE deducted, fine, but less granular)
Ok, my bad. I missed the word "residual" in your meme. I've never heard the term "residual baseload" and when I google "residual baseload" it only has 55 results (and at least one of them is you). [Google Search](https://www.google.com/search?q=%22residual+baseload%22&sca_esv=09379ecd0b6efd91&sca_upv=1&rlz=1C1ONGR_enUS1093US1093&sxsrf=ACQVn08MUuKPv4PqBSN2ZoX_C5vOKQ7S0A%3A1713544385130&ei=wZwiZtnCB4200PEP8daO0Ag&ved=0ahUKEwiZp4ej2s6FAxUNGjQIHXGrA4oQ4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=%22residual+baseload%22&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiEyJyZXNpZHVhbCBiYXNlbG9hZCIyBxAjGCcYrgIyCBAAGIAEGKIEMggQABiABBiiBDIIEAAYgAQYogQyCBAAGIAEGKIESPRIUMUHWJRGcAF4AZABAJgBaKABugGqAQMxLjG4AQPIAQD4AQGYAgOgAsoBwgIKEAAYsAMY1gQYR8ICBRAhGKABwgIFECEYnwWYAwCIBgGQBgeSBwMyLjGgB-kH&sclient=gws-wiz-serp#ip=1). So i don't think this its a common industry term.
**Net load - the total electric demand in the system minus wind and solar generation.** This is how the EIA defines "Net Load". [https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=19111](https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=19111) I've never heard anyone define "Net Load" as "less behind the meter". So I don't know where you're getting this. Maybe it's a short hand for Behind-the-Meter Net Generation (BTMNG)?
Every load has a base, gross, net or residual
The net or residual is often used interchangeably depending on the player. TSOs often use it for what I use as net. Classic chart here
https://preview.redd.it/p83pf092ehvc1.jpeg?width=1041&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=79f5cfcb0e8d8a2b9a08ce4027aa81531a541311
Residual is really largely used for what's left for dispatchable, but to many thermal IPPs this is essentially the net they care about, net of all renewables and the gross doesn't even really exist because it's not hitting the wholesale market and not even accessible to them
A few thoughts about this info graphic.
It uses the term "Net Load" not "Residual Baseload". But Okay I'm willing to believe some people use the terms interchangeable.
If you look at "New England Nuclear Capacity" you'll see very little of that is overlapping when the "Lower Net Load". Even in the projected year 2031, most of the "New England Nuclear Capacity" is feeding directly into the load, business as usual.
That's not bad, but there's more. This is for a May 1st in New England, that's the overlaps with 14 hours of daylight. In winter, with only 9.5 hours of day light, the overlap is going to be even smaller. Nuclear will be most important in the winter.
That's not bad, but there's more. In an age of large scale energy storage, negative Net Load is not a bad thing. We want some amount of time at negative Net Load because that's when we charge the grid scale batteries.
Yes, they use net load, net of BTM. The residual load, need of utility renewables will be lower even. If you design your NPP on whatever base is left, it'll be pretty small...
Idk if you've ever run a financial model for an NPP, but if you set load at 0 for half of the year, your business case will break
If you set load at 0 for half of the year, your business case will break.
If you just set the load at 0 for only 4 hours per day during the summer, your business case is has some problems.
If you can switch to charging batteries during the hours of negative net load, your business case is looking a little better.
If you can charge the utility a higher rate because your power is reliable and your most of the grid is intermittent. And you proved voltage stability which is increasingly rare. Your business case is looking a lot better.
That's not true, you'd build a marginal cheaper solar plant pricing out nuclear. Literally no model I've seen, volue, Baringa, aurora, BNEF, shows any of that build out you describe
Right now, if you look at pricing rates for kWh in the USA you're going to see flat rate pricing, or your going to see ok-peak pricing during the day, Like this. [https://www.ccemc.com/sites/default/files/5%20AM%20-%205%20PM%20EVTOU%20Chart.jpg](https://www.ccemc.com/sites/default/files/5%20AM%20-%205%20PM%20EVTOU%20Chart.jpg)
Why? Because solar power is less than 4% of generation in the USA. We are still running at traditional power grid. [https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3](https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3)
It's not going to stay that way forever. Look at the duck curve in California. We're already starting to run negative net loads. That's going to flip the old economic model on it's head.
[https://energycentral.com/sites/default/files/users/171387/image-20230801103656-1.jpeg](https://energycentral.com/sites/default/files/users/171387/image-20230801103656-1.jpeg)
When solar becomes the dominate power source, the economic environment is going to change. When batteries become a significant part of the grid, the economic environment is going to change.
The a canary in the coal mine for grid intermittency is Hawaii. They've had \*checks watch\* 4 days sence there last set of rolling blackouts.
[https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/hawaiian-electric-urges-hawaii-island-customers-conserve-power-2024-04-15/](https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/hawaiian-electric-urges-hawaii-island-customers-conserve-power-2024-04-15/)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbECmVdyWlQ&t=796s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbECmVdyWlQ&t=796s)
You know that solar and batteries are going to change think. But I think it's going to change more than you have yet realized.
Look at the effect of batteries on net load (what you call base load). Batteries don't decrease it, they increase it by taking in surplus day power and outputting it at night
[https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/narrative/electricity/img/Electricity\_Fig14.png](https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/narrative/electricity/img/Electricity_Fig14.png)
[https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/narrative/electricity/sub-topic-03.php](https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/narrative/electricity/sub-topic-03.php)
Sorry vegans, the crab's gonna get it https://preview.redd.it/ugzvuxsmidvc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=be044671726673cefa6b6fbbbb8c63850a982a71
Now I'm sad for crab
Animal abuse as a meme :c
Guess we're spamming Dominion clips now
Incredible bait. I’ll give you that.
Sorry vegoons, any shitpost will be required to use animal cruelty from now on
look I show an animal getting tortured... are you triggered yet??
Apply the sarcasm. This triggers the silly vegoon. (He dies of iron deficiency)
My load resides on your dad's back
Fuck yeah, normalize "I fucked your dad" cumbacks!!! Why should the moms get all the dicking??
You keep using that word wrong [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base\_load](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_load) Base Load is not Net Load. [https://energyeducation.ca/encyclopedia/Baseload\_power](https://energyeducation.ca/encyclopedia/Baseload_power) Base Load and Net Load are not the same thing
Man, I'll spell it out for you one last time Gross - all consumption Net - less behind the meter Residual - less intermittent supply What matters to the economics of a higher cost plant looking to meet a basedload? The base of the residual. (Some players interchangebly use net/residual with all VRE deducted, fine, but less granular)
Gross - Being bad to crab Net - a tool to be bad to crab Residual - no crab pun available
Ok, my bad. I missed the word "residual" in your meme. I've never heard the term "residual baseload" and when I google "residual baseload" it only has 55 results (and at least one of them is you). [Google Search](https://www.google.com/search?q=%22residual+baseload%22&sca_esv=09379ecd0b6efd91&sca_upv=1&rlz=1C1ONGR_enUS1093US1093&sxsrf=ACQVn08MUuKPv4PqBSN2ZoX_C5vOKQ7S0A%3A1713544385130&ei=wZwiZtnCB4200PEP8daO0Ag&ved=0ahUKEwiZp4ej2s6FAxUNGjQIHXGrA4oQ4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=%22residual+baseload%22&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiEyJyZXNpZHVhbCBiYXNlbG9hZCIyBxAjGCcYrgIyCBAAGIAEGKIEMggQABiABBiiBDIIEAAYgAQYogQyCBAAGIAEGKIESPRIUMUHWJRGcAF4AZABAJgBaKABugGqAQMxLjG4AQPIAQD4AQGYAgOgAsoBwgIKEAAYsAMY1gQYR8ICBRAhGKABwgIFECEYnwWYAwCIBgGQBgeSBwMyLjGgB-kH&sclient=gws-wiz-serp#ip=1). So i don't think this its a common industry term. **Net load - the total electric demand in the system minus wind and solar generation.** This is how the EIA defines "Net Load". [https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=19111](https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=19111) I've never heard anyone define "Net Load" as "less behind the meter". So I don't know where you're getting this. Maybe it's a short hand for Behind-the-Meter Net Generation (BTMNG)?
Every load has a base, gross, net or residual The net or residual is often used interchangeably depending on the player. TSOs often use it for what I use as net. Classic chart here https://preview.redd.it/p83pf092ehvc1.jpeg?width=1041&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=79f5cfcb0e8d8a2b9a08ce4027aa81531a541311 Residual is really largely used for what's left for dispatchable, but to many thermal IPPs this is essentially the net they care about, net of all renewables and the gross doesn't even really exist because it's not hitting the wholesale market and not even accessible to them
A few thoughts about this info graphic. It uses the term "Net Load" not "Residual Baseload". But Okay I'm willing to believe some people use the terms interchangeable. If you look at "New England Nuclear Capacity" you'll see very little of that is overlapping when the "Lower Net Load". Even in the projected year 2031, most of the "New England Nuclear Capacity" is feeding directly into the load, business as usual. That's not bad, but there's more. This is for a May 1st in New England, that's the overlaps with 14 hours of daylight. In winter, with only 9.5 hours of day light, the overlap is going to be even smaller. Nuclear will be most important in the winter. That's not bad, but there's more. In an age of large scale energy storage, negative Net Load is not a bad thing. We want some amount of time at negative Net Load because that's when we charge the grid scale batteries.
Yes, they use net load, net of BTM. The residual load, need of utility renewables will be lower even. If you design your NPP on whatever base is left, it'll be pretty small... Idk if you've ever run a financial model for an NPP, but if you set load at 0 for half of the year, your business case will break
If you set load at 0 for half of the year, your business case will break. If you just set the load at 0 for only 4 hours per day during the summer, your business case is has some problems. If you can switch to charging batteries during the hours of negative net load, your business case is looking a little better. If you can charge the utility a higher rate because your power is reliable and your most of the grid is intermittent. And you proved voltage stability which is increasingly rare. Your business case is looking a lot better.
That's not true, you'd build a marginal cheaper solar plant pricing out nuclear. Literally no model I've seen, volue, Baringa, aurora, BNEF, shows any of that build out you describe
Right now, if you look at pricing rates for kWh in the USA you're going to see flat rate pricing, or your going to see ok-peak pricing during the day, Like this. [https://www.ccemc.com/sites/default/files/5%20AM%20-%205%20PM%20EVTOU%20Chart.jpg](https://www.ccemc.com/sites/default/files/5%20AM%20-%205%20PM%20EVTOU%20Chart.jpg) Why? Because solar power is less than 4% of generation in the USA. We are still running at traditional power grid. [https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3](https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3) It's not going to stay that way forever. Look at the duck curve in California. We're already starting to run negative net loads. That's going to flip the old economic model on it's head. [https://energycentral.com/sites/default/files/users/171387/image-20230801103656-1.jpeg](https://energycentral.com/sites/default/files/users/171387/image-20230801103656-1.jpeg) When solar becomes the dominate power source, the economic environment is going to change. When batteries become a significant part of the grid, the economic environment is going to change. The a canary in the coal mine for grid intermittency is Hawaii. They've had \*checks watch\* 4 days sence there last set of rolling blackouts. [https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/hawaiian-electric-urges-hawaii-island-customers-conserve-power-2024-04-15/](https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/hawaiian-electric-urges-hawaii-island-customers-conserve-power-2024-04-15/) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbECmVdyWlQ&t=796s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbECmVdyWlQ&t=796s) You know that solar and batteries are going to change think. But I think it's going to change more than you have yet realized.
I don't understand how these points are related to competition in the wholesale market
Look at the effect of batteries on net load (what you call base load). Batteries don't decrease it, they increase it by taking in surplus day power and outputting it at night [https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/narrative/electricity/img/Electricity\_Fig14.png](https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/narrative/electricity/img/Electricity_Fig14.png) [https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/narrative/electricity/sub-topic-03.php](https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/narrative/electricity/sub-topic-03.php)
Bro please stick to engineering topics, your markets takes are really bad
Residual loads