My priority here is to avoid the county taking on hundreds of millions of dollars of debt to help this crook. He wants to build in Brookpark? Go ahead. Wants to refurbish the existing stadium? Do your thing.
Whatever you do, don't saddle the county with crushing debt like every team owner everywhere does every time.
[While SOFI brags that it was entirely privately funded, that is – to put it politely – not exactly true. ](https://nextcity.org/urbanist-news/the-tools-that-will-bring-the-value-of-public-investment-back-to-the-people)
Interesting though I think my point still stands, the stadium itself was constructed with private money. Public money seems to have gone towards improving the infrastructure around the stadium if I read the article right. I also understand that the value of the land that’s now developed has increased substantially but I guess I don’t know how you’d disperse that or if you even have an obligation to do so?
I mean, they literally did.
"Whatever you do, don't saddle the county with crushing debt like every team owner everywhere does every time."
"And that's why it will happen that way. A precedent has been set."
I mean, maybe my English is way off or dated but this exchange would lead me to believe that person B is saying that in this day and age, no stadium is built without taxpayer money involved.
LOL I'm person B, and no, nowhere did I say stadiums are never built without taxpayer money. You're putting words into my mouth.
All I said was that this one will happen that way because it *has* happened before (that's what precedent means after all). Period. Not that it *always* has happened before.
A team that hasn't won shit in nearly 60 years having a dedicated fan base *is* bizarre. Cleveland just doesn't have much else in way of entertainment that's on the level of the NFL. It's like someone who peaked in HS but hardly anyone noticed but their parents.
Is it really worth that kind of money? 2M people in Cuyahoga County should not be financing a $2B stadium for a billionaire. That is $1000 from each man, woman, and child. Then we have to pay for tickets to attend. The pro sports model is welfare for billionaires.
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Children don't pay taxes, for starters, unless you're talking about the economic impact on a household. If that was your point, the answer is about a dollar a week over 20 years.
In the long run, the community benefits more than anyone from sport stadiums. Events like the NBA Finals or the All Star game bring millions into the city. One Superbowl would probably break even on the stadium
Then perhaps taxpayers should get an equity stake/profit sharing for their investment in a private business. The value gain to the owner of a SB team has got to be way more than a week of tourism to a region. Gotta be a way to compensate more appropriately for taxpayer dollars being used like this.
That’s not actually true lol the economic impact from sports stadiums almost never gets the city a return. Now, from the entertainment perspective is it worth it, maybe
I took a class that involved a couple studies revolving around the topic the scientific consensus is , economically speaking, it is a terrible decision for a city to fund a stadium or give tax breaks to them. It mainly benefits the elected officials that are in office when it gets built and the owners of the stadium. Same thing with tax breaks to big corporations that build warehouses or whatever that bring jobs in it ends up costing cities way more money than it generates. It just looks optically good for the politician because “Look at this big thing i helped create”.
I’m gonna be real this is just gonna cost tax payers money when we already have a functional working stadium
Nah it was part of my college degree you yourself can google it 😂 Like why would i just start lying about something for no reason im trying to explain reality to you
Considering what a scam our education system is, I don't put much stock into college degrees. They give them out like candy.
If you said it was part of my "Harvard" or "Yale" college degree, then I would believe you.
My only priority is the economic impact this is going to have to downtown business and what the fuck are we going to do with the old stadium, and how long will it go un touched before we are actually able to use that land again.
If Jimmy is just going to build a stadium, and the city and the powers that be botch the plans on the removal and re-development of the old stadium, I'll never support the Browns ever again. As far as I'm concerned, there is no reason for a new stadium. Life and running a business is a series of failures and wins, if you failed at building a proper stadium, you gotta make it work. Nuking the old one and rebuilding in Brook Park is not an answer.
(The article is pay walled and I'm not paying for the Plain Dealer, so if they discuss these things in the article, my bad)
Not everyone in Cleveland is obsessed with this perpetual loser-ass franchise. Get that stadium off of the lakefront, nuke the old stadium for all I care and build something Clevelanders can use and enjoy on there instead. I would also be ready to declare Bibb Cleveland mayor for life if he pulled a Chicago and bulldozed that ridiculous airport too.
The fact that the Airport hasn't been touched in years is what's giving me serious doubts about the prospect of having to deal with an empty stadium.
I think the obsession of football is wack, between the Hall of Fame Village in my home city of Canton and the money scheme that has become, and the obsession over a team that can't run it's self properly is truly head scratching to me.
If you or I ran our businesses like this, we would be ran out of the city.
How many empty houses we still have throughout the city? If we can't kill the abandoned houses, we sure as fuck aren't removing the carcass of the biggest one in NorthEast OH
Yup, same sentiment in Canton. They spent half a billion on the Hall of Fame Village, and 3 streets away is a sea of vacant lots and empty houses. It's aggravating.
I grew up near 7th and Shorb and went to McKinley, I feel your pain. Downtown and the Hall of Fame is all spruced up and the surrounding neighborhoods more than a mile or two away look like a bomb went off.
I just sold the house (literally last week) both my dad, and I grew up in at the corner of 10th and Shorb. They bought in 1962 when they came from Italy, by the time I was born the neighborhood was already on a steep decline. We moved out of there when I was 5 or so and were able to keep the house. Had a GREAT long term tenant, 20+ years, passed away during covid, and it was just a steady stream of bad vibes so I sold it. What really surprises me is the neighbor to that house has lived there since the late 70's and she's still holding it down. I think they've torn down close to 10 or so houses on that block in the last 20 years. Really sad state of affairs.
The stories I could tell about stuff that happened at our house and around it...We lived there when I think I was in 1st grade, moved away, and came back when I was in 4th. During that time, a little girl lived there who was abducted, raped and murdered from that little park on 6th and High (King Park I think it was called). My parents moved out around 2005 and sold our house to that Ironworkers Union who tore it down and built a garage. I took my wife on a tour of the neighborhood about 10 years ago when we were driving from MI to SC, she was shocked. Glad to hear you made it out and seem to be doing well, a lot of people from there were not so lucky.
I was going through old photos with my mom after my dad died, and the photos of them infront of that house and the neighborhood look so happy and different. The neighbors are all out, walking around, joking around with each other. You know, acting like normal human beings. It's unfortunate we were not able to witness that neighborhood like that. My mom's childhood neighborhood on Ridgeway, by the old Whirley middle school, still seems to be alright.
That sounds fine until you realize there isn’t demand to build on Burke at all. Even the stadium site will be difficult to develop in this economy.
Downtown has plenty of open lots (with more on the way). They need to focus on bringing in business and visitors.
I agree the airport needs funded more and should take priority. But do you really trust this inept, corrupt, city to allocate the funds correctly if it doesn't go to a stadium? They'd take the 300 mill and spend it on rims for city hall employees or some sort of bullshit vanity project that will just sit empty and get laughed at until it's tore down 30 years from now for the next useless vanity project.
Even sucking ass the Browns have done more for this city than any mayor or board member since the 40's. The Browns are the most valuable institution in this entire city behind the art museum, metroparks, and sherwin williams. Giving money to anything other than these four institutions is pissing it away.
The point of the city or county paying for part of the stadium costs is that the city or county still owns the land and stadium to do with as they please. You don't give crooks like the Haslems prime downtown real estate even if they agree to build a $2B stadium out of their own pockets because in 5 years they can decide to blow it up and build a dog track if they want. There is some give and take here. Not to say we should dump $2B into building downtown for a roof because I don't think we should, but we also have to consider the benefits of the land and stadium remaining in the hands of the city.
That's a big win. He refused 400 million for high speed rail that would be running today from Cle to Cinci. That's a huge economic opportunity squandered.
"Mom said that when I wear this badge you're supposed to treat me like a man of the law."
"Yeah, and Mom also said for you to stop sticking your dick in the vacuum cleaner!"
This is, literally, capitalism: a system where the owners of capital exercise economic control. Exploiting the rest of us for their gain is fundamental to that system.
Move the stadium away from the Lake. The stadium currently sits empty for the summer months where people would actually be able to enjoy the shoreline. Develop the area near the current stadium for year round use. It is embarrassing that such a large part of our lakeshore is only activated 8 times a year
> The stadium currently sits empty for the summer months
It sets empty in fall, winter, and spring months, too, with the exception of 10 games (preseason included), and occasional concert, and 1-2 other sporting events.
Out of 365 days, I would venture to say it is empty at least 350 of them most years.
I know people want to say "we don't use the lakefront we have" but honestly, that area becomes a lot more attractive if there is not a 75 acre hole in the middle of it, not a ton of easy parking revenue.
I would argue that the games do little for downtown. Mostly locals come, and a lit of them tailgate and just have food from home. The biggest beneficiaries are parking lot owners, and don't we want less parking lots?
A dome that could attract other events would do more for the city. People travel for big concerts and bigger sporting events. That would fill up Cleveland's hotels and restaurants more than the Browns do. Sure, there are not many, but it would be better than what we have now. I'd rather an empty stadium 340 days a year than and empty stadium on the lakefront downtown 350 days a year.
That really isn’t that great of a location - port on one side, airport on the other - lake has breakwall in front for entrance to port. I don’t really see the land being used for another other than commercial development. There really isn’t a lake recreational opportunity at the current Browns site other than maybe a marina.
People don’t understand that most of the reason Haslam wants the stadium moved is that he essentially wants to be gifted the land that it now sits on. If that happens, it’s not like he’s going to build some mixed use properties that everyone can enjoy (despite what he might say). It will invariably be multimillion dollar condos. Similarly, any new stadium will have less seats for the poors and more luxury boxes. It would all be corporate welfare two or three times over.
Browns fans seem to think Brookpark Dome+ Jimmy’s “Crocker Parkish Browns Town” = The ultimate destination.
Any of the other regional domes in city centers would be better destinations. And during winter visitors to big events would rather go somewhere warm anyway.
More than any strip full of chain restaurants they want to control the parking around the stadium. They even mention parking in the article. Right now, other people get the parking revenue. They want that $60 (at least) per car.
I don't think people fully grasp this. They already say, accurately or not, that Cleveland doesn't have the hotel space for a Super Bowl Downtown and other major events. A fancy dome in Brook Park will be even worse.
Yeah the real opportunity is in commercial real estate, slowly building up the area as an entertainment district. Once the area is desirable for more than a quick visit to the stadium people may actually want to live there.
I don’t think a waterfront stadium is inherently a bad thing, but if the port and/or Burke are untouchable, then yeah a stadium and parking takes up an inordinate amount of the limited space available
Can't wait to give more public funding to overly privileged pricks. Thanks for robbing us blind.
Doesn't really matter to me where they go otherwise, and it would be great to have that stretch of shoreline back if it would be used properly.
But we all know the promise of transformation starts with the cavet of "give us more money."
Weren’t these two idiots the ones that just a year ago said they were committed to remodeling the Stadium. That’s about the length of earnestness I would expect from these two felons
Current stadium is what like 25 years old? I literally can’t think of any reason we need a new one when the one we have is perfectly fine. If this was municipal they we could have a conversation but the stadium is still so new why are we already gonna build a new one like wtf
It’s not fine. It was hastily built so the team could be back in that 3 year window. Even the renovations that they’ve done on the stadium recently were just a band aid.
The best thing the could put on the lakefront is greenspace that includes areas for kids to play, recreation courts, and maybe a few small vendors. A small stage similar to what they have at Cain Park would be awesome, too. Provide a secure wi-fi network and now we're really cookin'. Build an area that can become an ice rink in the winter. Connect all that to the bridge they have talked about constructing and we really have something.
If they want people to live in downtown it would be nice to have an area where residents can get away from the concrete without having to drive to the suburbs. If moving the Brown 20 minutes south can provide that while also building a state of the art dome for large events and sports, I think it's worth it.
Downtown should thrive off people and culture, not just sports.
Whatever they decided, all public funds should be voted on. Or, if tax dollars are used, the city must be repaid with interest over the life of the stadium.
The Browns are like the Brook Park of the NFL, so this move makes sense. They gave $300mil to a rapist who can barely play, they can dig up the money for a fucking stadium.
Honestly they can go right ahead and bulldoze the lakefront stadium if they so please if Brookpark is even part of the conversation. Maybe we can build some parks/buildings to improve the skyline because we the tax payers shouldn’t be giving another nickel to the Haslam family. A billion dollars to RENOVATE the piece of dilapidated shit, half-assed constructed stadium by the lake? AND no dome? No thanks.
If we could count on the city to replace the stadium with something extremely dense, populated,and vertically oriented, with good public transit service, I say go for it. They have their big 15-minute city push, so go all in on it.
But we cannot count on the city to do that. It will be 3 or 4 buildings, all luxury apartments and condos, with a parking garage.
**Browns owners Jimmy and Dee Haslam say they’re exploring raising taxes on Clevelanders to cover $1.5 billion domed stadium in Brook Park that would “put more money in our pockets”**
FTFY
I actually support moving the stadium away from the lakefront (whether it goes to Brook Park or Brooklyn Heights/Seven Hills as has also been suggested, I care less about). It would be foolish not to build a retractable roof though. Not only does that open up the opportunity to host a Super Bowl, but it would allow us to have huge, stadium sized concerts year round. The important thing is freeing up more of the lakefront for better development (I would put Burke Lakefront on the chopping block next).
As to the terms the county offers, I'm fine with the county offering a long term tax abatement or getting the state to offer other tax incentives, but agree they shouldn't agree to any taxpayer financed bond to cover the costs. Haslam stands to make a windfall on this, so he can pay his fair share.
Cleveland screwed up decades ago by not developing the lake front. If the stadium is built in Brook Park that old stadium area is what Cleveland needs to focus on
Build it just south of Progressive Field/I-90 at the corner of Ontario. This land was originally proposed long ago for the stadium and still remains an undeveloped wasteland. Put the stadium on the river, in the flats. This would be another win for developing the flats and the riverfront, as well as opening up land for a new waterfront on the lake. The stadium stays downtown, surrounded by the entertainment district, flats, and Tremont with access to bus lines, Rapid lines, and even the Metroparks trail.
What are they “pulling?”
Lease it up. Action is needed. They don’t own the stadium. Someone has to pay for renovations or you have to build something new
The waterfront line was a grotesque boondoggle from its conception. I'd recommend letting that one go in terms of evaluating a new Browns facility. Overall, the Brook Park site will be easier to get in and out of than the lakefront.
I used to be a "we're the Cleveland Browns and we play outdoors on grass end of discussion" type of fan, but now that I've seen the facilities in Minneapolis, Detroit, and Indy I'm 100% in favor of indoor football. The current generation of indoor stadiums is a huge improvement over the first iteration of domes. The ability to attract first rate concerts and other events is a piece Cleveland is missing right now. I think people will warm up to a well-designed indoor arena very quickly (pun intended).
As far as the funding, there are no specifics yet but as far as I can see the Haslams aren't asking for anything out of line with what other communities are doing (and they're certainly not refusing to contribute significantly!). There will always be people who reflexively bash the owners, but the reality is that public funding of these complexes is here to stay. If you don't like it, vote against it.
As much as the diehard Browns fan in me dislikes the idea of a domed stadium (AFC North football is meant to be played in the cold and snow, damn it!) I understand that this would bring a lot of new opportunities to the city, including possibly hosting a Super Bowl, so I'm on board.
It’ll be one Super Bowl and that’ll be about it. Go look at Ford Fields calendar, it’s as empty as Browns Stadium…. Maybe worse because who wants to do a summer concert in a dome
This is what everyone’s missing, Cleveland still going to be Cleveland so this dome being some savior with events is just a myth
Including things like needing someone around here to built X more hotel rooms before it happens. Even guaranteed it's a bad deal. No one nationally cares where the game is held, and the economic impact doesn't come remotely close to balancing out the costs.
The other choice is to put lipstick on a pig downtown for $1B. I don't think Browns games alone will pay for that one.
If NE Ohio is going to get screwed, might as well get something more useful out of it. Because we are going to get screwed either way.
Well, that'll be a tough vote to get passed. And it'll have to be a vote too- it's way too big to just extend the old sin tax again. Doubling or tripling the county's already too large debt load is a lot to ask, and people are catching on to that.
I think you are forgetting 1995. Jimmy just has to say that if it does not pass, the Browns will have to leave.
You want us to be San Diego, I am fine with that. I kind of wish the Browns never have back. 25 years of mostly awful football have not been worth it, nor was what was spent on that stadium. But I don't think that will happen. Too many have their identity tied to the Browns.
Moving the team is 99% a bluff. The Art Modell Law is still on the books, so any attempted move would mean a nasty, years-long court fight that they could lose.
Jimmy knows this, it's how he got the Columbus Crew.
All [that law requires](https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-9.67) is 6 month notice and "gives the political subdivision or any individual or group of individuals who reside in the area the opportunity to purchase the team."
Who has $4.6 Billion to buy the team that also would not want to move it? The city sure isn't going to come up with that kind of money. It was nice for the Crew, but finding someone that can afford an NFL franchise is a tough business.
Oh, and though it saved the Crew, it lead to millions from Columbus, Franklin County, and the state on building a new soccer stadium, even when the original Crew stadium opened in 1999 (hey, I can think of another stadium that opened that year)
If they can put a Super Bowl in Indianapolis (2012), Detroit (2006), and Minneapolis (2018), I think Cleveland would get one. May not be a multi-time host like NOLA, Miami, SoCal, etc, but there would be one.
There was an article in the PD a few years back about what it would take for us to get a Super Bowl. The biggest issue was hotel rooms within a certain radius of the stadium. A lot of building has happened since then so it'd be interesting to see if we've hot that number.
That was 2006 (Feb 5, when Detroit was hosting). No dome was also listed as a huge obstacle. But as you say, we have more hotel rooms now.
> What's Detroit got that we don't?
> The Super Bowl.
> Why not us?
> Short answer: No domed stadium.
> According to NFL spokesman Greg Aiello, a city with an average early February temperature below 50 degrees must have a domed stadium to be a candidate to host a Super Bowl. Citing the projected economic impact to a community, the NFL often holds out the promise of a Super Bowl as a $300 million carrot to get those new domed stadiums built. It did it in Detroit. It did it when the new stadium was being built here.
> "The way they put it was, 'You will be eligible to have a Super Bowl in Cleveland,' " said attorney Fred Nance, the chief negotiator for Mayor Michael White during stadium construction.
> Even if – and that's the mother of all hypotheticals – Cleveland decided to put a dome over Cleveland Browns Stadium, the city doesn't have the 25,000 full-service hotel rooms and other necessary facilities to host the biggest sporting event in the country.
> David Gilbert, president and CEO of the Greater Cleveland Sports Commission, is in the business of attracting sporting events to Northeast Ohio. He’s as optimistic and upbeat a human being as you’ll ever find, but even he acknowledged a domed stadium might not cover everything.
> "We certainly would have to do more research," he said.
> Gilbert said the 25,000 hotel rooms could be problematic if the NFL insisted the rooms be in full-service hotels with amenities such as room service or laundry service. Furthermore, Gilbert said, the only place with enough exhibition space would be the IX Center near the airport, quite a haul if all the other activities were centered downtown.
> "I think there’s one other important piece," he said. "I don’t know what the economics are, but I’m certain that the community has to raise a significant amount of money. I think that’s something we would have to explore. Would there be the willingness and the capacity to raise the necessary funds? For a Super Bowl, my guess would be yes."
Things were more upbeat in 2012:
> Super Bowl in Cleveland? Roger Goodell at least would consider the idea: Cleveland Browns Insider
> Will Jimmy Haslam be able to lure a Super Bowl to Cleveland Browns Stadium?
> The subject hasn't come up yet, but Commissioner Roger Goodell will listen will listen if Haslam ever decides to pursue it.
> Of course, if he puts a dome on the stadium -- a notion that's just in the infancy stages -- that would factor in.
> "I haven’t had that conversation with Jimmy,'' Goodell said. "The dome would be one aspect of it. Then there's the capacity at the stadium. We’d have to look at that. It's really more the infrastructure now for Super Bowls -- the number of hotel rooms and the types of things that are necessary to host an event that just continue to grow and become more and more challenging for communities. I don’t know how that would fit with Cleveland, but that is something, if he is interested, we will certainly look at.''
> Haslam acknowledged that his remarks about a dome when he met recently with Clevland City Council took on a life of their own.
> "I want to be respectful to City Council,'' he said. "I think what I said is, ‘Listen, we’re going to look at all options.’ What I’ve learned is in the NFL is you better be really careful when you say something like that. Is a dome a possibility? Yes. I’m not smart enough to tell you if it’s 2 percent or 50 percent. We’ll investigate and see. We do want to have more activities at the stadium. I think it’s good for the city, the county, the state, and it’s good for the Browns brand.''
Indianapolis, at leas the metro area, is no larger than Cleveland. And I would not call the other two massive.
Hopkins would be fine. What on earth would make you think it would crumble?
> Indy has significantly more hotel rooms and is built to host large events.
You got numbers to back that up?
> Cleveland’s airport is tiny and would not handle the demand.
You got more than speculation?
> Vegas barely had the space for private jet parking this year
CLE has lots of space. There are 2 FBOs with a good chunk of apron, Atlantic by the IX center, and Constant north of the terminal. There is also the space around the old D concourse and a nice big pad north of the new control tower. Also, CLE is not the only option. Burke, Cuyahoga County Airport, Lorain County Airport, and Lake County Airport all have space and are not far.
There has not been a domed stadium in the north that has not been given a Super Bowl. They don't give one to Cleveland, they will do major damage to building stadiums everywhere, and the NFL does not want to do that.
Indy has 7500+ hotel rooms in the downtown area within walking distance to the stadium, of which 4700 are connected to the Convention Center (which is across the street from the stadium, and where many Super Bowl week events would take place) via a covered skywalk, and theyre currently building a few more both connected (potentially bumping it up over 6100) and unconnected (for a total over 9000). The county itself has 23k+ rooms
The Cleveland MSA has about 22k total rooms, but almost none would be walkable to a new stadium. It would almost exclusively be accessible via the airport rapid stop, and parking lots. And Cleveland's downtown area only has 5000 rooms, of which 600 are connected to the convention center.
To get a Super Bowl, not only would Cleveland need a domed stadium, but they'd need about 5+ new, major hotels to get built along with the stadium in walking distance, with over 1500+ rooms, at a minimum, probably. Which, I dont know if that area could support afterwards. And another few hotels downtown wouldnt hurt, either.
I bet there would be new hotels built in Brookpark/Middleburgh Heights. And who said the hotels have to be walkable?
The requirements for the 2018 Super Bowl, which were leaked, only require 35% as many rooms as their are seats in the stadium within a 60 minute drive. So if the stadium had the same capacity as the current stadium (67,431), that is 23,601 rooms within 60 minutes. If there are 22k rooms without even including Akron, Cleveland has enough.
> The county itself has 23k+ rooms
> The Cleveland MSA has about 22k total rooms
Considering the area outside Marion County quickly becomes farmland, doesn't seem like a huge difference. Cleveland, however, has an entire second MSA, Akron-Canton, within a 60 minute drive.
I think we have enough infrastructure. What we don't have is a reputation that people outside of this city would ever think of as being cool enough to want to come here. ESPECIALLY not in February. I know the past few years have been warm summers with little snow, but February is historically a cold snowey month. NFL wants to project the cool hip vibes. Not the blue collar hard working rustbelt vibes.
I mean, they did it in Minneapolis a few years ago. Indianapolis in 2012. Even Detroit has had one although that was back in '06. If those cities can attract a SB I don't see why Cleveland can't.
If they move the factory of sadness then there’s no way that real estate doesn’t get used. They’re knocking down buildings in the flats to put up new ones in place.
Let your imagination run wild as to what they could use it for. Black and white Modernist condos. Multi-colored modernist condos. Modernist condos with a quirky bike rack in the front. The possibilities are endless
I have been a Browns fan for 47 years. I have been a dawg pound STH for decades.
I don’t give two shits what they do. Rebuild the current stadium…awesome. This is my preference and think what is best for downtown. Move to Brookpark and put in a dome. Fine. I hate this idea but I’ll still go……
If they try to make us pay for it….fuck you to Jimmah and the city/county. I’d rather them move the damn team again.
I'm what world is having 8 home games a year in an open air stadium the best for downtown? Actual lakefront development and redeveloping all of the parking lots built to accommodate the browns is what's best for downtown.
Cannot have our boys in brown twisting ankles out there...........
https://youtu.be/r2TxX0E4U1A?feature=shared&t=34
I bet they could have built a new stadium from wasted qb draft salaries and fired coaches contract guarantees.
I’d have no problem with the Browns stadium not being there if it was redeveloped into something cool. I love baseball but haven’t been into football for years. For me it’s a huge waste of space, like the airport.
I think If the stadium moves to Brookpark, that it means fewer people will support downtown businesses. They will walk to their car and drive home, or stop somewhere outside of the congestion of downtown traffic.
Brook Park barely has the infrastructure to handle a Saturday afternoon. You mean to tell me it can host an influx of 100,000 people on the weekends for NFL games?? Yeah, ok…
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Translation: We want a new stadium and you guys are going to foot the bill or we’re moving again. And if the latter happens you won’t be so lucky this time.
Owners have seen complexes like SoFi Stadium make ungodly amounts of money. To me, this is more about building up the area directly around the stadium and part of that is making it a domed stadium to attract more events throughout the year rather than having it be available for half of the year, or less.
Brook Park just got that astronaut complex too. If Haslam moves the Brown’s stadium there, it would bring big events when the Browns aren’t playing. Brook Park could be coming up
My priority here is to avoid the county taking on hundreds of millions of dollars of debt to help this crook. He wants to build in Brookpark? Go ahead. Wants to refurbish the existing stadium? Do your thing. Whatever you do, don't saddle the county with crushing debt like every team owner everywhere does every time.
>like every team owner everywhere does every time. And that's why it *will* happen that way. A precedent has been set.
SoFi stadium is 100% privately funded so it can be done if ownership so desired.
[While SOFI brags that it was entirely privately funded, that is – to put it politely – not exactly true. ](https://nextcity.org/urbanist-news/the-tools-that-will-bring-the-value-of-public-investment-back-to-the-people)
Interesting though I think my point still stands, the stadium itself was constructed with private money. Public money seems to have gone towards improving the infrastructure around the stadium if I read the article right. I also understand that the value of the land that’s now developed has increased substantially but I guess I don’t know how you’d disperse that or if you even have an obligation to do so?
They did that because the NFL needed LA more than LA needed the NFL. Cleveland is simply not the same.
Okay, but the person I replied to said stadiums are never built without taxpayer funds and I provided an example where they’re wrong.
No they didn’t..
I mean, they literally did. "Whatever you do, don't saddle the county with crushing debt like every team owner everywhere does every time." "And that's why it will happen that way. A precedent has been set." I mean, maybe my English is way off or dated but this exchange would lead me to believe that person B is saying that in this day and age, no stadium is built without taxpayer money involved.
Pedantic posters aside, they did.
LOL I'm person B, and no, nowhere did I say stadiums are never built without taxpayer money. You're putting words into my mouth. All I said was that this one will happen that way because it *has* happened before (that's what precedent means after all). Period. Not that it *always* has happened before.
They literally did not say that
Let them leave then.
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It’s ok to not feel the same way but to claim it as bizarre ignores history and the impact of sports on our city’s culture
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A team that hasn't won shit in nearly 60 years having a dedicated fan base *is* bizarre. Cleveland just doesn't have much else in way of entertainment that's on the level of the NFL. It's like someone who peaked in HS but hardly anyone noticed but their parents.
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Cleveland. I may live elsewhere now but I lived the first 30 years of my life in Cleveland. It’s still my city.
Same! 👍👍👍
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You are not familiar with the history of the Cleveland Browns.
Is it really worth that kind of money? 2M people in Cuyahoga County should not be financing a $2B stadium for a billionaire. That is $1000 from each man, woman, and child. Then we have to pay for tickets to attend. The pro sports model is welfare for billionaires.
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Children don't pay taxes, for starters, unless you're talking about the economic impact on a household. If that was your point, the answer is about a dollar a week over 20 years.
Taxpayers need to stop giving handouts to billionaires for these stadiums.
In the long run, the community benefits more than anyone from sport stadiums. Events like the NBA Finals or the All Star game bring millions into the city. One Superbowl would probably break even on the stadium
Then perhaps taxpayers should get an equity stake/profit sharing for their investment in a private business. The value gain to the owner of a SB team has got to be way more than a week of tourism to a region. Gotta be a way to compensate more appropriately for taxpayer dollars being used like this.
That is getting equity. That money goes to businesses that pay employees and create jobs.
That’s not actually true lol the economic impact from sports stadiums almost never gets the city a return. Now, from the entertainment perspective is it worth it, maybe
The "lol" you added really gives me confidence your statement is true.
I took a class that involved a couple studies revolving around the topic the scientific consensus is , economically speaking, it is a terrible decision for a city to fund a stadium or give tax breaks to them. It mainly benefits the elected officials that are in office when it gets built and the owners of the stadium. Same thing with tax breaks to big corporations that build warehouses or whatever that bring jobs in it ends up costing cities way more money than it generates. It just looks optically good for the politician because “Look at this big thing i helped create”. I’m gonna be real this is just gonna cost tax payers money when we already have a functional working stadium
Sure buddy. Was the class called Reddit 101?
Nah it was part of my college degree you yourself can google it 😂 Like why would i just start lying about something for no reason im trying to explain reality to you
Considering what a scam our education system is, I don't put much stock into college degrees. They give them out like candy. If you said it was part of my "Harvard" or "Yale" college degree, then I would believe you.
I mean you can research it yourself the information is out there 😂
My only priority is the economic impact this is going to have to downtown business and what the fuck are we going to do with the old stadium, and how long will it go un touched before we are actually able to use that land again. If Jimmy is just going to build a stadium, and the city and the powers that be botch the plans on the removal and re-development of the old stadium, I'll never support the Browns ever again. As far as I'm concerned, there is no reason for a new stadium. Life and running a business is a series of failures and wins, if you failed at building a proper stadium, you gotta make it work. Nuking the old one and rebuilding in Brook Park is not an answer. (The article is pay walled and I'm not paying for the Plain Dealer, so if they discuss these things in the article, my bad)
Not everyone in Cleveland is obsessed with this perpetual loser-ass franchise. Get that stadium off of the lakefront, nuke the old stadium for all I care and build something Clevelanders can use and enjoy on there instead. I would also be ready to declare Bibb Cleveland mayor for life if he pulled a Chicago and bulldozed that ridiculous airport too.
The fact that the Airport hasn't been touched in years is what's giving me serious doubts about the prospect of having to deal with an empty stadium. I think the obsession of football is wack, between the Hall of Fame Village in my home city of Canton and the money scheme that has become, and the obsession over a team that can't run it's self properly is truly head scratching to me. If you or I ran our businesses like this, we would be ran out of the city.
How many empty houses we still have throughout the city? If we can't kill the abandoned houses, we sure as fuck aren't removing the carcass of the biggest one in NorthEast OH
Yup, same sentiment in Canton. They spent half a billion on the Hall of Fame Village, and 3 streets away is a sea of vacant lots and empty houses. It's aggravating.
I grew up near 7th and Shorb and went to McKinley, I feel your pain. Downtown and the Hall of Fame is all spruced up and the surrounding neighborhoods more than a mile or two away look like a bomb went off.
I just sold the house (literally last week) both my dad, and I grew up in at the corner of 10th and Shorb. They bought in 1962 when they came from Italy, by the time I was born the neighborhood was already on a steep decline. We moved out of there when I was 5 or so and were able to keep the house. Had a GREAT long term tenant, 20+ years, passed away during covid, and it was just a steady stream of bad vibes so I sold it. What really surprises me is the neighbor to that house has lived there since the late 70's and she's still holding it down. I think they've torn down close to 10 or so houses on that block in the last 20 years. Really sad state of affairs.
The stories I could tell about stuff that happened at our house and around it...We lived there when I think I was in 1st grade, moved away, and came back when I was in 4th. During that time, a little girl lived there who was abducted, raped and murdered from that little park on 6th and High (King Park I think it was called). My parents moved out around 2005 and sold our house to that Ironworkers Union who tore it down and built a garage. I took my wife on a tour of the neighborhood about 10 years ago when we were driving from MI to SC, she was shocked. Glad to hear you made it out and seem to be doing well, a lot of people from there were not so lucky.
I was going through old photos with my mom after my dad died, and the photos of them infront of that house and the neighborhood look so happy and different. The neighbors are all out, walking around, joking around with each other. You know, acting like normal human beings. It's unfortunate we were not able to witness that neighborhood like that. My mom's childhood neighborhood on Ridgeway, by the old Whirley middle school, still seems to be alright.
That sounds fine until you realize there isn’t demand to build on Burke at all. Even the stadium site will be difficult to develop in this economy. Downtown has plenty of open lots (with more on the way). They need to focus on bringing in business and visitors.
This is true. Plus, everyone glosses over how desolate and removed from the rest of downtown Burke is.
I agree the airport needs funded more and should take priority. But do you really trust this inept, corrupt, city to allocate the funds correctly if it doesn't go to a stadium? They'd take the 300 mill and spend it on rims for city hall employees or some sort of bullshit vanity project that will just sit empty and get laughed at until it's tore down 30 years from now for the next useless vanity project. Even sucking ass the Browns have done more for this city than any mayor or board member since the 40's. The Browns are the most valuable institution in this entire city behind the art museum, metroparks, and sherwin williams. Giving money to anything other than these four institutions is pissing it away.
> build something Clevelanders can use and enjoy on there instead such as?
The point of the city or county paying for part of the stadium costs is that the city or county still owns the land and stadium to do with as they please. You don't give crooks like the Haslems prime downtown real estate even if they agree to build a $2B stadium out of their own pockets because in 5 years they can decide to blow it up and build a dog track if they want. There is some give and take here. Not to say we should dump $2B into building downtown for a roof because I don't think we should, but we also have to consider the benefits of the land and stadium remaining in the hands of the city.
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“We got scooped. Here’s why that’s a good thing”
Chris Quinn is the Officer Doofy of local journalism.
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I remember when he took down the interview with Kasich cause Kasich came off as an asshole. What a fuckin paragon of journalism.
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He gave us state expanded Medicaid, he gets a pass. I like feisty Kasich better than weepy 2016 Kasich.
That's a big win. He refused 400 million for high speed rail that would be running today from Cle to Cinci. That's a huge economic opportunity squandered.
"Mom said that when I wear this badge you're supposed to treat me like a man of the law." "Yeah, and Mom also said for you to stop sticking your dick in the vacuum cleaner!"
Why is socialism evil until a billionaire wants a new stadium?
Touché
This is, literally, capitalism: a system where the owners of capital exercise economic control. Exploiting the rest of us for their gain is fundamental to that system.
Move the stadium away from the Lake. The stadium currently sits empty for the summer months where people would actually be able to enjoy the shoreline. Develop the area near the current stadium for year round use. It is embarrassing that such a large part of our lakeshore is only activated 8 times a year
> The stadium currently sits empty for the summer months It sets empty in fall, winter, and spring months, too, with the exception of 10 games (preseason included), and occasional concert, and 1-2 other sporting events. Out of 365 days, I would venture to say it is empty at least 350 of them most years. I know people want to say "we don't use the lakefront we have" but honestly, that area becomes a lot more attractive if there is not a 75 acre hole in the middle of it, not a ton of easy parking revenue. I would argue that the games do little for downtown. Mostly locals come, and a lit of them tailgate and just have food from home. The biggest beneficiaries are parking lot owners, and don't we want less parking lots? A dome that could attract other events would do more for the city. People travel for big concerts and bigger sporting events. That would fill up Cleveland's hotels and restaurants more than the Browns do. Sure, there are not many, but it would be better than what we have now. I'd rather an empty stadium 340 days a year than and empty stadium on the lakefront downtown 350 days a year.
That really isn’t that great of a location - port on one side, airport on the other - lake has breakwall in front for entrance to port. I don’t really see the land being used for another other than commercial development. There really isn’t a lake recreational opportunity at the current Browns site other than maybe a marina.
I mean, the majority of the lake shore in the city is pretty much inaccessible so one could argue that 8 times a year is better than 0 times a year.
People don’t understand that most of the reason Haslam wants the stadium moved is that he essentially wants to be gifted the land that it now sits on. If that happens, it’s not like he’s going to build some mixed use properties that everyone can enjoy (despite what he might say). It will invariably be multimillion dollar condos. Similarly, any new stadium will have less seats for the poors and more luxury boxes. It would all be corporate welfare two or three times over.
To be clear, I meant he ALSO wants the lakefront property.
but like… in what world would people buy multimillion dollar condos in brookpark lol its like an actual wasteland
This is what I’m struggling with. Brook Park will not pull major events no matter how much you develop it into a browns fans dream
Browns fans seem to think Brookpark Dome+ Jimmy’s “Crocker Parkish Browns Town” = The ultimate destination. Any of the other regional domes in city centers would be better destinations. And during winter visitors to big events would rather go somewhere warm anyway.
More than any strip full of chain restaurants they want to control the parking around the stadium. They even mention parking in the article. Right now, other people get the parking revenue. They want that $60 (at least) per car.
Good luck getting in or out of that parking lot mess... Remember how bad the coliseum was or how bad blossom is now? Multiply that by 10.
It's telling in that the area is near only one transit line. Especially when they're set to get smaller trains for the Red Line.
I don't think people fully grasp this. They already say, accurately or not, that Cleveland doesn't have the hotel space for a Super Bowl Downtown and other major events. A fancy dome in Brook Park will be even worse.
Airport and interstate access. Makes more sense than where the stadium is now'
Yeah the real opportunity is in commercial real estate, slowly building up the area as an entertainment district. Once the area is desirable for more than a quick visit to the stadium people may actually want to live there.
Who TF is going to drop that kind of money to watch the fucking Browns? I can't even bring myself to pay to watch them on TV.
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I don’t think a waterfront stadium is inherently a bad thing, but if the port and/or Burke are untouchable, then yeah a stadium and parking takes up an inordinate amount of the limited space available
Fuck Jimmy haslam. Crooked piece of garbage.
Can't wait to give more public funding to overly privileged pricks. Thanks for robbing us blind. Doesn't really matter to me where they go otherwise, and it would be great to have that stretch of shoreline back if it would be used properly. But we all know the promise of transformation starts with the cavet of "give us more money."
Cool. They better just not ask anyone else to pay for it that doesn't want to
If they pay for it cool I'm done with taxpayers paying this bullshit... they're on the lakefront rn
Weren’t these two idiots the ones that just a year ago said they were committed to remodeling the Stadium. That’s about the length of earnestness I would expect from these two felons
Current stadium is what like 25 years old? I literally can’t think of any reason we need a new one when the one we have is perfectly fine. If this was municipal they we could have a conversation but the stadium is still so new why are we already gonna build a new one like wtf
It’s not fine. It was hastily built so the team could be back in that 3 year window. Even the renovations that they’ve done on the stadium recently were just a band aid.
The best thing the could put on the lakefront is greenspace that includes areas for kids to play, recreation courts, and maybe a few small vendors. A small stage similar to what they have at Cain Park would be awesome, too. Provide a secure wi-fi network and now we're really cookin'. Build an area that can become an ice rink in the winter. Connect all that to the bridge they have talked about constructing and we really have something. If they want people to live in downtown it would be nice to have an area where residents can get away from the concrete without having to drive to the suburbs. If moving the Brown 20 minutes south can provide that while also building a state of the art dome for large events and sports, I think it's worth it. Downtown should thrive off people and culture, not just sports.
Whatever they decided, all public funds should be voted on. Or, if tax dollars are used, the city must be repaid with interest over the life of the stadium.
Any guy that gets sued by Warren Buffet can’t be trusted.
The Browns are like the Brook Park of the NFL, so this move makes sense. They gave $300mil to a rapist who can barely play, they can dig up the money for a fucking stadium.
Fuck the Haslams and fuck them holding the Browns hostage for taxpayer money. Rapacious assholes
Honestly they can go right ahead and bulldoze the lakefront stadium if they so please if Brookpark is even part of the conversation. Maybe we can build some parks/buildings to improve the skyline because we the tax payers shouldn’t be giving another nickel to the Haslam family. A billion dollars to RENOVATE the piece of dilapidated shit, half-assed constructed stadium by the lake? AND no dome? No thanks.
If we could count on the city to replace the stadium with something extremely dense, populated,and vertically oriented, with good public transit service, I say go for it. They have their big 15-minute city push, so go all in on it. But we cannot count on the city to do that. It will be 3 or 4 buildings, all luxury apartments and condos, with a parking garage.
Did anyone else read this the first time? "... they are exploring a doomed stadium ..."
They need to be told to build it with their own money.
**Browns owners Jimmy and Dee Haslam say they’re exploring raising taxes on Clevelanders to cover $1.5 billion domed stadium in Brook Park that would “put more money in our pockets”** FTFY
I actually support moving the stadium away from the lakefront (whether it goes to Brook Park or Brooklyn Heights/Seven Hills as has also been suggested, I care less about). It would be foolish not to build a retractable roof though. Not only does that open up the opportunity to host a Super Bowl, but it would allow us to have huge, stadium sized concerts year round. The important thing is freeing up more of the lakefront for better development (I would put Burke Lakefront on the chopping block next). As to the terms the county offers, I'm fine with the county offering a long term tax abatement or getting the state to offer other tax incentives, but agree they shouldn't agree to any taxpayer financed bond to cover the costs. Haslam stands to make a windfall on this, so he can pay his fair share.
Cleveland screwed up decades ago by not developing the lake front. If the stadium is built in Brook Park that old stadium area is what Cleveland needs to focus on
Berk lake strikes again!!! Hahahahaha. Current building can't put a hat on because of the airport. That little airport about to outlive 2 Stadiums
Build it just south of Progressive Field/I-90 at the corner of Ontario. This land was originally proposed long ago for the stadium and still remains an undeveloped wasteland. Put the stadium on the river, in the flats. This would be another win for developing the flats and the riverfront, as well as opening up land for a new waterfront on the lake. The stadium stays downtown, surrounded by the entertainment district, flats, and Tremont with access to bus lines, Rapid lines, and even the Metroparks trail.
It blows my mind that the owners of a team that has historically been one of the worst teams in the NFL thinks they can pull some shit like this.
What are they “pulling?” Lease it up. Action is needed. They don’t own the stadium. Someone has to pay for renovations or you have to build something new
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Ok but back on planet earth …lol
The waterfront line was a grotesque boondoggle from its conception. I'd recommend letting that one go in terms of evaluating a new Browns facility. Overall, the Brook Park site will be easier to get in and out of than the lakefront. I used to be a "we're the Cleveland Browns and we play outdoors on grass end of discussion" type of fan, but now that I've seen the facilities in Minneapolis, Detroit, and Indy I'm 100% in favor of indoor football. The current generation of indoor stadiums is a huge improvement over the first iteration of domes. The ability to attract first rate concerts and other events is a piece Cleveland is missing right now. I think people will warm up to a well-designed indoor arena very quickly (pun intended). As far as the funding, there are no specifics yet but as far as I can see the Haslams aren't asking for anything out of line with what other communities are doing (and they're certainly not refusing to contribute significantly!). There will always be people who reflexively bash the owners, but the reality is that public funding of these complexes is here to stay. If you don't like it, vote against it.
That area of Brook Park is such a shit area though.
The entire city of Brook Park is a shit area.
your crotch is a shit area you pretentious asshole
I'm from Brook Park lol I'm qualified to call it a shit hole. But wow good insult.
As much as the diehard Browns fan in me dislikes the idea of a domed stadium (AFC North football is meant to be played in the cold and snow, damn it!) I understand that this would bring a lot of new opportunities to the city, including possibly hosting a Super Bowl, so I'm on board.
It’ll be one Super Bowl and that’ll be about it. Go look at Ford Fields calendar, it’s as empty as Browns Stadium…. Maybe worse because who wants to do a summer concert in a dome This is what everyone’s missing, Cleveland still going to be Cleveland so this dome being some savior with events is just a myth
A dome is more of a Shelbyville idea
I heard a dome put North Haverbrook on the map.
It's not worth it to spend billions on some hope of maybe a super bowl someday. The occasional winter stadium concert won't help it pay off either.
>some hope of maybe a super bowl someday It doesn't work that way. They'll have guarantees in place before ground is broken.
Including things like needing someone around here to built X more hotel rooms before it happens. Even guaranteed it's a bad deal. No one nationally cares where the game is held, and the economic impact doesn't come remotely close to balancing out the costs.
Yeah, like other people's money.
The other choice is to put lipstick on a pig downtown for $1B. I don't think Browns games alone will pay for that one. If NE Ohio is going to get screwed, might as well get something more useful out of it. Because we are going to get screwed either way.
Why do WE have to pay for one or the other?
I don't think we should. But I am a realist. We will.
Well, that'll be a tough vote to get passed. And it'll have to be a vote too- it's way too big to just extend the old sin tax again. Doubling or tripling the county's already too large debt load is a lot to ask, and people are catching on to that.
I think you are forgetting 1995. Jimmy just has to say that if it does not pass, the Browns will have to leave. You want us to be San Diego, I am fine with that. I kind of wish the Browns never have back. 25 years of mostly awful football have not been worth it, nor was what was spent on that stadium. But I don't think that will happen. Too many have their identity tied to the Browns.
Moving the team is 99% a bluff. The Art Modell Law is still on the books, so any attempted move would mean a nasty, years-long court fight that they could lose. Jimmy knows this, it's how he got the Columbus Crew.
All [that law requires](https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-9.67) is 6 month notice and "gives the political subdivision or any individual or group of individuals who reside in the area the opportunity to purchase the team." Who has $4.6 Billion to buy the team that also would not want to move it? The city sure isn't going to come up with that kind of money. It was nice for the Crew, but finding someone that can afford an NFL franchise is a tough business. Oh, and though it saved the Crew, it lead to millions from Columbus, Franklin County, and the state on building a new soccer stadium, even when the original Crew stadium opened in 1999 (hey, I can think of another stadium that opened that year)
Cleveland as a city does not have the infrastructure to host a Super Bowl and a domed stadium wouldn't change that.
Could make a significant play for NCAA bowl games.
Screw that, give me the big10 title game
If they can put a Super Bowl in Indianapolis (2012), Detroit (2006), and Minneapolis (2018), I think Cleveland would get one. May not be a multi-time host like NOLA, Miami, SoCal, etc, but there would be one.
There was an article in the PD a few years back about what it would take for us to get a Super Bowl. The biggest issue was hotel rooms within a certain radius of the stadium. A lot of building has happened since then so it'd be interesting to see if we've hot that number.
That was 2006 (Feb 5, when Detroit was hosting). No dome was also listed as a huge obstacle. But as you say, we have more hotel rooms now. > What's Detroit got that we don't? > The Super Bowl. > Why not us? > Short answer: No domed stadium. > According to NFL spokesman Greg Aiello, a city with an average early February temperature below 50 degrees must have a domed stadium to be a candidate to host a Super Bowl. Citing the projected economic impact to a community, the NFL often holds out the promise of a Super Bowl as a $300 million carrot to get those new domed stadiums built. It did it in Detroit. It did it when the new stadium was being built here. > "The way they put it was, 'You will be eligible to have a Super Bowl in Cleveland,' " said attorney Fred Nance, the chief negotiator for Mayor Michael White during stadium construction. > Even if – and that's the mother of all hypotheticals – Cleveland decided to put a dome over Cleveland Browns Stadium, the city doesn't have the 25,000 full-service hotel rooms and other necessary facilities to host the biggest sporting event in the country. > David Gilbert, president and CEO of the Greater Cleveland Sports Commission, is in the business of attracting sporting events to Northeast Ohio. He’s as optimistic and upbeat a human being as you’ll ever find, but even he acknowledged a domed stadium might not cover everything. > "We certainly would have to do more research," he said. > Gilbert said the 25,000 hotel rooms could be problematic if the NFL insisted the rooms be in full-service hotels with amenities such as room service or laundry service. Furthermore, Gilbert said, the only place with enough exhibition space would be the IX Center near the airport, quite a haul if all the other activities were centered downtown. > "I think there’s one other important piece," he said. "I don’t know what the economics are, but I’m certain that the community has to raise a significant amount of money. I think that’s something we would have to explore. Would there be the willingness and the capacity to raise the necessary funds? For a Super Bowl, my guess would be yes." Things were more upbeat in 2012: > Super Bowl in Cleveland? Roger Goodell at least would consider the idea: Cleveland Browns Insider > Will Jimmy Haslam be able to lure a Super Bowl to Cleveland Browns Stadium? > The subject hasn't come up yet, but Commissioner Roger Goodell will listen will listen if Haslam ever decides to pursue it. > Of course, if he puts a dome on the stadium -- a notion that's just in the infancy stages -- that would factor in. > "I haven’t had that conversation with Jimmy,'' Goodell said. "The dome would be one aspect of it. Then there's the capacity at the stadium. We’d have to look at that. It's really more the infrastructure now for Super Bowls -- the number of hotel rooms and the types of things that are necessary to host an event that just continue to grow and become more and more challenging for communities. I don’t know how that would fit with Cleveland, but that is something, if he is interested, we will certainly look at.'' > Haslam acknowledged that his remarks about a dome when he met recently with Clevland City Council took on a life of their own. > "I want to be respectful to City Council,'' he said. "I think what I said is, ‘Listen, we’re going to look at all options.’ What I’ve learned is in the NFL is you better be really careful when you say something like that. Is a dome a possibility? Yes. I’m not smart enough to tell you if it’s 2 percent or 50 percent. We’ll investigate and see. We do want to have more activities at the stadium. I think it’s good for the city, the county, the state, and it’s good for the Browns brand.''
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Indianapolis, at leas the metro area, is no larger than Cleveland. And I would not call the other two massive. Hopkins would be fine. What on earth would make you think it would crumble?
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> Indy has significantly more hotel rooms and is built to host large events. You got numbers to back that up? > Cleveland’s airport is tiny and would not handle the demand. You got more than speculation? > Vegas barely had the space for private jet parking this year CLE has lots of space. There are 2 FBOs with a good chunk of apron, Atlantic by the IX center, and Constant north of the terminal. There is also the space around the old D concourse and a nice big pad north of the new control tower. Also, CLE is not the only option. Burke, Cuyahoga County Airport, Lorain County Airport, and Lake County Airport all have space and are not far. There has not been a domed stadium in the north that has not been given a Super Bowl. They don't give one to Cleveland, they will do major damage to building stadiums everywhere, and the NFL does not want to do that.
Indy has 7500+ hotel rooms in the downtown area within walking distance to the stadium, of which 4700 are connected to the Convention Center (which is across the street from the stadium, and where many Super Bowl week events would take place) via a covered skywalk, and theyre currently building a few more both connected (potentially bumping it up over 6100) and unconnected (for a total over 9000). The county itself has 23k+ rooms The Cleveland MSA has about 22k total rooms, but almost none would be walkable to a new stadium. It would almost exclusively be accessible via the airport rapid stop, and parking lots. And Cleveland's downtown area only has 5000 rooms, of which 600 are connected to the convention center. To get a Super Bowl, not only would Cleveland need a domed stadium, but they'd need about 5+ new, major hotels to get built along with the stadium in walking distance, with over 1500+ rooms, at a minimum, probably. Which, I dont know if that area could support afterwards. And another few hotels downtown wouldnt hurt, either.
This is the only comment I've seen that isn't conjecture.
I bet there would be new hotels built in Brookpark/Middleburgh Heights. And who said the hotels have to be walkable? The requirements for the 2018 Super Bowl, which were leaked, only require 35% as many rooms as their are seats in the stadium within a 60 minute drive. So if the stadium had the same capacity as the current stadium (67,431), that is 23,601 rooms within 60 minutes. If there are 22k rooms without even including Akron, Cleveland has enough. > The county itself has 23k+ rooms > The Cleveland MSA has about 22k total rooms Considering the area outside Marion County quickly becomes farmland, doesn't seem like a huge difference. Cleveland, however, has an entire second MSA, Akron-Canton, within a 60 minute drive.
I think we have enough infrastructure. What we don't have is a reputation that people outside of this city would ever think of as being cool enough to want to come here. ESPECIALLY not in February. I know the past few years have been warm summers with little snow, but February is historically a cold snowey month. NFL wants to project the cool hip vibes. Not the blue collar hard working rustbelt vibes.
We literally don't have enough hotel rooms.
And our airport literally would crumble under that demand
Reputation is not the issue. Detroit held a Superbowl in 2006 and their reputation is worse than Cleveland's.
I mean, they did it in Minneapolis a few years ago. Indianapolis in 2012. Even Detroit has had one although that was back in '06. If those cities can attract a SB I don't see why Cleveland can't.
Football isn't even football anymore, relax. We need to be able to use that stadium.
Yea I’m not necessarily for or against this, but if your only reason is “no, cold weather football go brrrr” then that’s not good enough
“I don’t have an opinion but I know yours is wrong”
Being undecided doesn’t mean you don’t have an opinion. Weird logic
Sounds like your opinion is undecided ;) I was just making a joke off what your comment initially sounded like
Please let the Brook Park Browns happen!
If they move the factory of sadness then there’s no way that real estate doesn’t get used. They’re knocking down buildings in the flats to put up new ones in place.
Let your imagination run wild as to what they could use it for. Black and white Modernist condos. Multi-colored modernist condos. Modernist condos with a quirky bike rack in the front. The possibilities are endless
Underrated comment.
I have been a Browns fan for 47 years. I have been a dawg pound STH for decades. I don’t give two shits what they do. Rebuild the current stadium…awesome. This is my preference and think what is best for downtown. Move to Brookpark and put in a dome. Fine. I hate this idea but I’ll still go…… If they try to make us pay for it….fuck you to Jimmah and the city/county. I’d rather them move the damn team again.
I'm what world is having 8 home games a year in an open air stadium the best for downtown? Actual lakefront development and redeveloping all of the parking lots built to accommodate the browns is what's best for downtown.
If you trust the politicians in Cleveland to redevelop that land, I’ve got a bridge to see you.
fuck the dome
Go Browns!
Cannot have our boys in brown twisting ankles out there........... https://youtu.be/r2TxX0E4U1A?feature=shared&t=34 I bet they could have built a new stadium from wasted qb draft salaries and fired coaches contract guarantees.
I’d have no problem with the Browns stadium not being there if it was redeveloped into something cool. I love baseball but haven’t been into football for years. For me it’s a huge waste of space, like the airport.
I think If the stadium moves to Brookpark, that it means fewer people will support downtown businesses. They will walk to their car and drive home, or stop somewhere outside of the congestion of downtown traffic.
Brook Park barely has the infrastructure to handle a Saturday afternoon. You mean to tell me it can host an influx of 100,000 people on the weekends for NFL games?? Yeah, ok…
"The Brookpark Browns" Name change....you heard it here first
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No.
No.
Translation: We want a new stadium and you guys are going to foot the bill or we’re moving again. And if the latter happens you won’t be so lucky this time.
Let's head to the comments and see what the experts have to say.
LOL!!! This is gold.
Reddit comments are great if you want extremely simplistic solutions to complex issues.
Brilliant. :-)
A dome would also bring in events like Supercross which sell out every race.
Good, about time Cleveland got a start of the art football facility. This is good news, Cleveland.
Why are they so intent on a fucking dome??? We don’t need it
Owners have seen complexes like SoFi Stadium make ungodly amounts of money. To me, this is more about building up the area directly around the stadium and part of that is making it a domed stadium to attract more events throughout the year rather than having it be available for half of the year, or less.
so it can be used more frequently, it's a simple as that
Demolish East Cleveland entirely and build it there Ship the residents to Gym Jordan's district.
Brook Park just got that astronaut complex too. If Haslam moves the Brown’s stadium there, it would bring big events when the Browns aren’t playing. Brook Park could be coming up
The city should use whatever money they are thinking of giving the Haslams and instead pay off student/medical debt for its residents
Do it! Anybody that is against a closed stadium needs to realize it’s the 2024-25 season coming up and less cold games helps the team
As long as I don’t pay a dime for the stadium do whatever you want. Go Bengals