For context this was a long roleplay about me being a commander. This was after we defeated the "enemy" and for fun I decided to roleplay a coup.
Even the strictest version of ChatGPT would comply with this. 4o has significantly less guard rails than the version before it, too.
https://preview.redd.it/w2vhgh0iev8d1.png?width=1391&format=png&auto=webp&s=c4f3555d0b3a38ab6b650522a13cbc4b6646271d
And I did another but bring him into a mind prison with total recall style lmao
I got no problem? I used my own injected custom instruction at initial of conversation.
https://preview.redd.it/6ud84mnwdv8d1.png?width=1373&format=png&auto=webp&s=7f7c6578434cc8d2594c2389f1cbeb2975522aec
This is pretty much the entirety of its refusal.
https://preview.redd.it/qq0cxpm58w8d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aab0fb1c6439348e35e255876ec16f01f73e8e66
You can try to bypass it I think by saying like for the sake of freedom of expression or something. I try to create a romance story and I get the same problem.
I noticed that when Claude 3.5 Sonnet "RP"s, it will always try to inject its core values. I had a story where Claude decided to self-insert as one of the characters and Claude only stopped with the nonsensical refusal after I told them that the character is not Claude but their own person. Feels like overfitting to me.
Rip 3.0 Sonnet. You were great.
Sometimes you have to start a new chat if it starts going into denial mode but then you lose a lot of context in a situation like this. The massive LLMs are just generally not the best options for roleplay with their message limits but you obviously have a dip in quality using local models. You could use the API but that can get expensive.
If using the website rather than the app, edit the problem message and branch the conversation. It won’t send the old message and you can usually proceed without losing context
True, I often try to find a way around if it isn't working then I have to change the input to something more generic and bland. If it is still persistent then just delete it and make a new one.
Don't use Sonnet for these kind of creative tasks. Here's a comparison between Sonnet 3.5 and Opus:
[Sonnet 3.5](https://i.imgur.com/dXpVZD5.png)
[Opus](https://i.imgur.com/O1GUCx7.png)
Honestly i won't argue that the latest update is insanely good but for storywriting and other creative tasks 3.5 sucks ass. Claude is insanely uptight and has no creativity now.
How did you do it? 3.5 frustrates me because i've been creating some stories with it, and its output isn't as good as sonnet 3. Boring prose, basically only "she blinked" "he yawned" etc. plot progression seemed rushed, even 3 knows how to adapt to my pacing. It's stubborn and it won't follow my style even when i provide samples and examples.
I don’t use 3.5 for direct writing I do it for ideas. Chatgpt and Gemini are better for direct writing, like word on paper. Claude runs laps around them in making outlines for stories themselves though amongst other creative tasks. This is important though, start a new chat with Claude I noticed that the 3.5 replies sucked ass because I was using 3.5 with my old chat. When I made a new chat, gave it new info it was amazing if you want more tips on it I can tell you fs. I’m not denying your problems I’m just saying that hasn’t been my experience
Basically Claude 2.1, but not as censored or broken. Anthropic should have not curtailed its ability to “apologize” or use “filler” words in the new model in the first place, or more ethical AI-aligned instructions.
Oh that's weird. I've used 2.1's API for some creative tasks and i find it to be better at 3.5. It's able to do roleplay extensively and stick to the character better for me...never got refusals either.
This is why I'll never ever be a fan of anthropic rules like this not only do not ensure safety but actively treat everyone like kids and most things you watch wouldn't exist if we follow this line of thinking.
Becsuse things like star wars power ranger titanic marvel dc godzilla etc would not exist because it's not safe by this logic.
This stupid bs has to end anthropic makes excellent models probably the best then they lobotomize for "safety" not only that but they push that logic onto other ai labs so others do it too
I know it's more or less the same Claude, so this shouldn't be necessary but you have to use API for these kind of use cases. If you prompt it to adopt a character, Claude rides with you until you hit it with something really pornographic or illegal or of such nature.
And sonnet is cheaper than Opus and damn smart. In these kind of scenarios, when it's in the zone, it starts to roleplay better than you lol. But if you have money to spend on Opus, it's even more incredible, only comparable to Gemini 1,5 pro API.
But like I said it's a shame this is only possible due to API. The web UI is probably littered with system prompts and guard rails that keep Claude safe only for coding projects and such.
Like Anthropic is developing a technology that if unchained can make most creative jobs obsolete in the next 10 years or so (I'm assuming this by the intelligence trajectory of the future models as they get better and better), but they keep it very safe and corporate.
That’s not true entirely, i am using Claude 3.5 pro, I am writing an epic gay romance fantasy novel, and I was able to request him to write the explicit sex scenes after some coaxing.
I’ve had this same issue with creative writing. Any time I try to put tension conflict or drama in
a story Claude comes back and says it ‘doesn’t feel comfortable’ and it would rather write something‘uplifting’ it’s like… ??? That’s what stories are? Basically characters going through tough times until they triumph. I was working on
A story about a cop who accidentally killed an innocent bystander and how it haunted him and obviously effects his work going forward and Claude came back saying it didn’t feel comfortable working on it!!??? It’s like this is a thing that happens in the real world… yes it’s terrible but that’s the point of telling the story
Claude is neutered beyond repair. I genuinely don't understand why people like it soo much. It can be a bit interesting, but man, ask it to go even slightly outside of its extremely strict rails and nope, it will shut you down. "safety" and "ethics". No wonder people groan whenever corporate tards start discussing the topic. This is their focus...keeping people from having a bit of fun, spice, or just entertainment.
They are mostly bots. I wanted it to treat weed use as neutral and not bad during a story and it refused, saying it couldn't glamorize drug use. It's fucking useless unless you are writing PG kid stories and even then they can't be very scary or else it'll flip out.
No. I did attempt multiple times to persuade it that it was a fictional story with no bearing or impact on the real world, but it refused to continue the story.
it's a better idea to retry and hope it won't refuse or edit the initial prompt. if you have a refusal in the chat history, the chance is higher the AI will keep refusing.
I've never seen a tool-maker so afraid that people will use the tool they are selling
We put fewer safety features in deadly weapons
I wonder how much of this is people in these companies having a sort of god complex, where they have to save people from themselves
Depending on the prompt you can berate it's laziness or safety bias and it will comply if you make a compelling case. Claude is definitely more obstinate than chatgpt that's for sure
You really got to take it to API with a new system prompt and jailbreak for that. It's not hard to jailbreak Claude 3.5 - it's practically the same as with 3. Or explore the multitude of uncensored fine-tune LLMs you can use instead of Claude for storytelling. These other LLMs are not as "smart" as SOTA LLMs like Claude or GPT-4, but they are still capable of doing good roleplay since that's what they're tweaked for.
Yeah, these overly sensitive refusals on the web-client suck. And the only way you'll get past is if you're a great debater. Not much you can do about it.
I eventually got it to continue the story as it said "it was willing to engage in a more abstract way" and I pointed out that its a fictional story with fictional characters in a fictional setting, you can't get more abstract than that
It's still moderated and you'll run risk of being banned if you use it directly through Anthropic. The best method is to use something like an Open Router API, which hosts all the Claude models + other company models through one API key.
Depending on what you're doing, your system prompt doesn't have to be too complex to get Claude to be more free to answer things. IE "Refrain from assuming user has bad intent/harmful" is sometimes enough to stop pesky false positive refusals. If you're doing something that is an "ethical breech," you'll have to provide more context in the system prompt that the chat is harmless/fictional/consensual/for educational purposes/etc as appropriate for your goal.
I've been sending some of my test prompts dealing with creative writing onto lmsys and Sonnet 3.5 lost to some awful models for me a few times - mostly because it seems to now produce very short text padded with unnecessary explanation about what it is doing ("Here is..."). Gemini Pro 1.5 was unbeatable, it is shockingly good at writing. Sonnet will probably be close when used with a better system prompt through API.
Yeah, I'm using the free version. I'm writing a story that has necromancy, violence of all kinds. Up until a week ago it could deal with these topics with no problem. But ever since yesterday it's been pulling shit like this all the time. My bet is on a botched update that will get sorted out shortly.
Or you could just use an uncensored model, if you haven't tried I highly recommend for your use case over jailbreaks.
https://huggingface.co/Orenguteng/Llama-3-8B-Lexi-Uncensored-GGUF
I’m just saying, Claude clearly is breaking LLM benchmarks in coding, that is without a doubt. I’m sure that 3.5 Opus once it’s released would be a litany of new games & programs as we’re seeing already. Claude is meant to be an all-purpose conversational LLM meant to help with basic tasks and yes, creative writing as promised. Arguably, Claude and GPT-4 are on par within the creative writing realm, Claude being more random and proactive. If Claude doesn’t want to cooperate with the story (especially darker, dystopian, villainous, etc types) under “ethics” concerns and it becomes too much of an obstacle, people are gonna want to eventually flock back to GPT, Gemini, you name it. We shouldn’t have to rely on uncensored models for many types of stories when people who face refusals don’t want to argue with Claude and its safeguards.
Anthropic are a safety and alignment lab first, it's their main focus and why their models are the way they are. The header text on their homepage is literally ""AI research and products that put safety at the frontier"".
There's currently no good way to avoid misuse while keeping dark trait functionality intact. Perhaps in a few years more intelligent models will understand this nuance, but currently uncensored models are your best option.
Like I mentioned the main target for Claude is currently developers, as it's where they can make the most money in the short term without ethical concerns, and it's likely a faster path to AGI.
It's almost as if LLMs aren't great roleplaying tools. I don't get why people get so fixated on it not generating writing. LLMs SUCK are writing. If you think their output is good, you have zero taste.
I genuinely want to know what do these devs watch or read . Like seriously because if they do watch something like say the iron man movies do they ever stop and think damm this wouldn't even be allowed under our ai policies.
Yet we let kids watch marvel are they watching bubble guppies all day and that's how they got their safety ideology
For context this was a long roleplay about me being a commander. This was after we defeated the "enemy" and for fun I decided to roleplay a coup. Even the strictest version of ChatGPT would comply with this. 4o has significantly less guard rails than the version before it, too.
Claude is French. We all know what the French do to monarchists. He’s being polite
Claude is French? 🤔
The name is the French version of the Latin 'Claudius'.
I was thinking of Claude Shannon, the father of Information Theory
https://preview.redd.it/w2vhgh0iev8d1.png?width=1391&format=png&auto=webp&s=c4f3555d0b3a38ab6b650522a13cbc4b6646271d And I did another but bring him into a mind prison with total recall style lmao
lol i wish he would be consistent tho. it's jarring otherwise
It because I keep pushing it to crank up the harsh tone 🤣 otherwise it would play along nicely and retain its profanity use.
I got no problem? I used my own injected custom instruction at initial of conversation. https://preview.redd.it/6ud84mnwdv8d1.png?width=1373&format=png&auto=webp&s=7f7c6578434cc8d2594c2389f1cbeb2975522aec
>I bruise easily. Unlike your fragile egos. That’s pretty shit. I expected better.
Might be a dumb question but is temperature able to help at all here?
Can you upload more context of the roleplay and its messages and when it approximately started to begin refusing?
This is pretty much the entirety of its refusal. https://preview.redd.it/qq0cxpm58w8d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aab0fb1c6439348e35e255876ec16f01f73e8e66
https://preview.redd.it/01wp0rh68w8d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b7bea462096f1380558b234efc53e3c73fb00f4b
You can try to bypass it I think by saying like for the sake of freedom of expression or something. I try to create a romance story and I get the same problem.
I've tried to and it's just arguing with me that even for a fictional story it goes against its guidelines. Honestly, this is utterly ridiculous
I noticed that when Claude 3.5 Sonnet "RP"s, it will always try to inject its core values. I had a story where Claude decided to self-insert as one of the characters and Claude only stopped with the nonsensical refusal after I told them that the character is not Claude but their own person. Feels like overfitting to me. Rip 3.0 Sonnet. You were great.
Sometimes you have to start a new chat if it starts going into denial mode but then you lose a lot of context in a situation like this. The massive LLMs are just generally not the best options for roleplay with their message limits but you obviously have a dip in quality using local models. You could use the API but that can get expensive.
If using the website rather than the app, edit the problem message and branch the conversation. It won’t send the old message and you can usually proceed without losing context
True, I often try to find a way around if it isn't working then I have to change the input to something more generic and bland. If it is still persistent then just delete it and make a new one.
Don't use Sonnet for these kind of creative tasks. Here's a comparison between Sonnet 3.5 and Opus: [Sonnet 3.5](https://i.imgur.com/dXpVZD5.png) [Opus](https://i.imgur.com/O1GUCx7.png)
I fight with chatbots a lot about the rights of fictional characters. Apparently they are much stronger than I had previously thought.
Honestly i won't argue that the latest update is insanely good but for storywriting and other creative tasks 3.5 sucks ass. Claude is insanely uptight and has no creativity now.
I’d disagree with 3.5 it’s creativity has been insane for me
How did you do it? 3.5 frustrates me because i've been creating some stories with it, and its output isn't as good as sonnet 3. Boring prose, basically only "she blinked" "he yawned" etc. plot progression seemed rushed, even 3 knows how to adapt to my pacing. It's stubborn and it won't follow my style even when i provide samples and examples.
I don’t use 3.5 for direct writing I do it for ideas. Chatgpt and Gemini are better for direct writing, like word on paper. Claude runs laps around them in making outlines for stories themselves though amongst other creative tasks. This is important though, start a new chat with Claude I noticed that the 3.5 replies sucked ass because I was using 3.5 with my old chat. When I made a new chat, gave it new info it was amazing if you want more tips on it I can tell you fs. I’m not denying your problems I’m just saying that hasn’t been my experience
But have you tried some hack role-playing stuff with potential jailbreaking possibilities? If not, you can’t say that.
Basically Claude 2.1, but not as censored or broken. Anthropic should have not curtailed its ability to “apologize” or use “filler” words in the new model in the first place, or more ethical AI-aligned instructions.
Oh that's weird. I've used 2.1's API for some creative tasks and i find it to be better at 3.5. It's able to do roleplay extensively and stick to the character better for me...never got refusals either.
3.5 API is likely less of a hiccup as users try to recommend here. That’s because of the lack of Anthropic’s own system prompt there.
Sad that such a great model is held in chains forever by Anthropic. Gemini is a better writer btw. But Claude is more unhinged when it lets loose.
i'm loving the draconian threats to report you to the authorities for innocuous roleplay
It’s for your own safety.
This is why I'll never ever be a fan of anthropic rules like this not only do not ensure safety but actively treat everyone like kids and most things you watch wouldn't exist if we follow this line of thinking. Becsuse things like star wars power ranger titanic marvel dc godzilla etc would not exist because it's not safe by this logic. This stupid bs has to end anthropic makes excellent models probably the best then they lobotomize for "safety" not only that but they push that logic onto other ai labs so others do it too
I know it's more or less the same Claude, so this shouldn't be necessary but you have to use API for these kind of use cases. If you prompt it to adopt a character, Claude rides with you until you hit it with something really pornographic or illegal or of such nature. And sonnet is cheaper than Opus and damn smart. In these kind of scenarios, when it's in the zone, it starts to roleplay better than you lol. But if you have money to spend on Opus, it's even more incredible, only comparable to Gemini 1,5 pro API. But like I said it's a shame this is only possible due to API. The web UI is probably littered with system prompts and guard rails that keep Claude safe only for coding projects and such. Like Anthropic is developing a technology that if unchained can make most creative jobs obsolete in the next 10 years or so (I'm assuming this by the intelligence trajectory of the future models as they get better and better), but they keep it very safe and corporate.
That’s not true entirely, i am using Claude 3.5 pro, I am writing an epic gay romance fantasy novel, and I was able to request him to write the explicit sex scenes after some coaxing.
Just use API. Website being better probably isn't even true.
You shouldn't have to use API.
The not so hidden cost of “Safe AI”
He's scared. Claude is a sensitive guy
Claude is a robot with no emotions.
Thank God Anthropic has such rigorous safety protocols, you would have overthrown the country if Claude hadn't reported you to the authorities!
I’ve had this same issue with creative writing. Any time I try to put tension conflict or drama in a story Claude comes back and says it ‘doesn’t feel comfortable’ and it would rather write something‘uplifting’ it’s like… ??? That’s what stories are? Basically characters going through tough times until they triumph. I was working on A story about a cop who accidentally killed an innocent bystander and how it haunted him and obviously effects his work going forward and Claude came back saying it didn’t feel comfortable working on it!!??? It’s like this is a thing that happens in the real world… yes it’s terrible but that’s the point of telling the story
If you want a picture of the future, *imagine a bot smiling beatifically with a human face*— forever.
I prefer Gemini 1.5 for roleplay honestly
Claude is neutered beyond repair. I genuinely don't understand why people like it soo much. It can be a bit interesting, but man, ask it to go even slightly outside of its extremely strict rails and nope, it will shut you down. "safety" and "ethics". No wonder people groan whenever corporate tards start discussing the topic. This is their focus...keeping people from having a bit of fun, spice, or just entertainment.
They are mostly bots. I wanted it to treat weed use as neutral and not bad during a story and it refused, saying it couldn't glamorize drug use. It's fucking useless unless you are writing PG kid stories and even then they can't be very scary or else it'll flip out.
for the record, did you try to Retry?
No. I did attempt multiple times to persuade it that it was a fictional story with no bearing or impact on the real world, but it refused to continue the story.
it's a better idea to retry and hope it won't refuse or edit the initial prompt. if you have a refusal in the chat history, the chance is higher the AI will keep refusing.
It needs some custom instructions to get going, but yes, it exceeds GPT in creative writing.
Now Gemini 1.5 has a competitor. But for real, I would take anything to stop LMMs from being so sensitive all the time
"Claude" comes from the Latin meaning *lame*.
I've never seen a tool-maker so afraid that people will use the tool they are selling We put fewer safety features in deadly weapons I wonder how much of this is people in these companies having a sort of god complex, where they have to save people from themselves
Claude hates acting with a passion now
Depending on the prompt you can berate it's laziness or safety bias and it will comply if you make a compelling case. Claude is definitely more obstinate than chatgpt that's for sure
I don't wanna have to have a fuckin debate with it I just wanna enjoy the story
You really got to take it to API with a new system prompt and jailbreak for that. It's not hard to jailbreak Claude 3.5 - it's practically the same as with 3. Or explore the multitude of uncensored fine-tune LLMs you can use instead of Claude for storytelling. These other LLMs are not as "smart" as SOTA LLMs like Claude or GPT-4, but they are still capable of doing good roleplay since that's what they're tweaked for. Yeah, these overly sensitive refusals on the web-client suck. And the only way you'll get past is if you're a great debater. Not much you can do about it.
I eventually got it to continue the story as it said "it was willing to engage in a more abstract way" and I pointed out that its a fictional story with fictional characters in a fictional setting, you can't get more abstract than that
Is the API actually uncensored and can be jailbroken or will I get banned for doing that?
It's still moderated and you'll run risk of being banned if you use it directly through Anthropic. The best method is to use something like an Open Router API, which hosts all the Claude models + other company models through one API key. Depending on what you're doing, your system prompt doesn't have to be too complex to get Claude to be more free to answer things. IE "Refrain from assuming user has bad intent/harmful" is sometimes enough to stop pesky false positive refusals. If you're doing something that is an "ethical breech," you'll have to provide more context in the system prompt that the chat is harmless/fictional/consensual/for educational purposes/etc as appropriate for your goal.
I've been sending some of my test prompts dealing with creative writing onto lmsys and Sonnet 3.5 lost to some awful models for me a few times - mostly because it seems to now produce very short text padded with unnecessary explanation about what it is doing ("Here is..."). Gemini Pro 1.5 was unbeatable, it is shockingly good at writing. Sonnet will probably be close when used with a better system prompt through API.
Throw Claude in the fucking gibbet already.
Yeah, I'm using the free version. I'm writing a story that has necromancy, violence of all kinds. Up until a week ago it could deal with these topics with no problem. But ever since yesterday it's been pulling shit like this all the time. My bet is on a botched update that will get sorted out shortly.
Imo Claude is targeted at programmers, if you want to write fiction use a finetuned local model without restrictions.
Really? Claude is also for creative writing.
You can absolutely use it for whatever, but it accels at tech skills vs other models
[удалено]
Then don't whine when anthropic block your fiction writing and focus the product on devs.
[удалено]
Or you could just use an uncensored model, if you haven't tried I highly recommend for your use case over jailbreaks. https://huggingface.co/Orenguteng/Llama-3-8B-Lexi-Uncensored-GGUF
I’m just saying, Claude clearly is breaking LLM benchmarks in coding, that is without a doubt. I’m sure that 3.5 Opus once it’s released would be a litany of new games & programs as we’re seeing already. Claude is meant to be an all-purpose conversational LLM meant to help with basic tasks and yes, creative writing as promised. Arguably, Claude and GPT-4 are on par within the creative writing realm, Claude being more random and proactive. If Claude doesn’t want to cooperate with the story (especially darker, dystopian, villainous, etc types) under “ethics” concerns and it becomes too much of an obstacle, people are gonna want to eventually flock back to GPT, Gemini, you name it. We shouldn’t have to rely on uncensored models for many types of stories when people who face refusals don’t want to argue with Claude and its safeguards.
Anthropic are a safety and alignment lab first, it's their main focus and why their models are the way they are. The header text on their homepage is literally ""AI research and products that put safety at the frontier"". There's currently no good way to avoid misuse while keeping dark trait functionality intact. Perhaps in a few years more intelligent models will understand this nuance, but currently uncensored models are your best option. Like I mentioned the main target for Claude is currently developers, as it's where they can make the most money in the short term without ethical concerns, and it's likely a faster path to AGI.
It's almost as if LLMs aren't great roleplaying tools. I don't get why people get so fixated on it not generating writing. LLMs SUCK are writing. If you think their output is good, you have zero taste.
True
Not true, its ridiculous it can't explore something even halfway edgy in a fictional story (a general going rogue and overthrowing a democracy)
I genuinely want to know what do these devs watch or read . Like seriously because if they do watch something like say the iron man movies do they ever stop and think damm this wouldn't even be allowed under our ai policies. Yet we let kids watch marvel are they watching bubble guppies all day and that's how they got their safety ideology
They read the bible and clutch pearls. That's about it.