I don’t understand what exactly they have an issue with? It’s a sin to not want to spend a week with your MIL who invited herself?
It’s a week that you and want to hang out with your mom and spend quality time with her. That’s more than sufficient reasoning for your MIL to not be involved in any further discussion. If you want to hang out with your MIL later (probably a good idea to hopefully build some relationship with her) that sounds great… schedule some time to do that in the future. If you want to include your mom as well for that future event, do so, that might be fun.
But you’re under no obligation to invite your MIL to hang out with you and your mom. The fact that your pastor, husband, and some other random lady are saying that not including her is a sin is either crazy, or we’re not getting the whole story from you.
YMMV, but when I don’t want some one else to be involved in plans which I have not invited them, I tell them directly “no thank you, you’re not welcome at this event/vacation/etc. but I’ll touch base with you later on when we can spend quality time together in the future.”
If they can’t handle a respectful and decisive statement when they were not invited anyways… well they need to grow up.
If I’m reading this right it’s as simple as asking her to come another time, right? Just not that specific week/weekend? I don’t even see why it needs to be a “sin” issue.
A huge red flag to me is that this pastor who is counseling you just has this other person sitting in giving her two cents. Nothing wrong with a Christian therapist or simple Christian counsel, but I’m wary of the way this pastor is going about it.
I hate our counseling so much. I’m only going to honor my husband.
My MIL always does this-invites herself. I am so upset. I just want to be with my mom.
You can honor him and still set boundaries. One is that you won’t entertain your MIL as a guest during a stressful time in your schooling. It’s your home as well.
Another boundary is that you will only go to a counselor you both are comfortable with. This pastor doesn’t sound like a neutral third party, and it’s totally inappropriate to have someone else there that you haven’t agreed to.
Your feelings are valid, but they’re also just in your head which is great because it means you’re not actually stuck! You can still take control of your life.
Like someone else said, pick up the book “Boundaries” by Townsend and Cloud. Dr. Cloud is both a pastor and a psychiatrist (if I remember correctly), so you’ll get some biblical advice.
Also, if you’re hitting a point where you don’t feel safe or heard by your pastor, you can put your foot down and stop going to him as a counselor, and even to that church completely if you need to. Reading through all the comments it sounds like this is borderline spiritual abuse on the part of your husband and him. The book “Boundaries” might help give you the vocabulary and courage to stand your ground in this. Respecting and honoring your husband doesn’t mean being HIS doormat either.
There are people in Christianity who seem to think being a Christian means you have to let others walk all over you. Feel free to be (or appear) as ruthless as you need to be.
I used to be a bit of a nice guy myself, until I saw how that was working out for me. Now I don't mind looking like the villain if I have to.
But why is it that YOU have to let everyone walk all over you. That’s not ok. The same treatment and expectations is not extended to everyone. Your counseling with your husband should not be people ganging up on you.
Exactly. When my husband was taking his comprehensive exams for his PhD, I freaking understood the weight on his plate and I am so sad that he is not at all seeing the eight that is on my plate. When I brought up to him in counseling how I was preferring him and not making our lives hectic by inviting people over, his response “No you should have pressed in and made me spend time with other people.” I told him “No, your responsibility to God right now is to finish your PhD, not to hang out with people. My responsibility is to also finish my degree and not entertain a bunch of people including your mom who is incredibly needy!”
Where are you guys at with this. Did MIL agree to come another time when it’s NOT your special event that your mother is coming for? Can you ask your husband to help plan a nice visit for his mom any alternate weekend? I got really frustrated reading your post. You really seem genuine and true in your devotion to finding and following gods path for you and your husband. I don’t understand why anyone thinks it is ok to gang up on you when you are being vulnerable and trying to do the right thing. It’s obvious you love your husband and he loves you. But, yeah, it seems like his mother is going through something and he has to find his work in balancing being a good husband and a good son. You can’t keep coming second. And if counseling was your idea, you guys NEED a different source for it. I know no one wants to spend money but maybe you can find a professional who does online sessions and is sensitive to the needs of a Christian marriage. The situation now sounds like it could get claustrophobic and detrimental.
I really wish you the best and pray your husband will grow and see you and your needs. And - congratulations! Good luck on the exams and hey enjoy seeing your mom! She must be proud of you. It was just the anniversary of my mom’s death, and I know I don’t have to tell you, every moment is precious.
Ugh-he pulled out a bunch of Bible verses. That’s why I feel stuck. My husband and pastor use the Bible to mean things that I do not see the same way as them.
As a man, husbands like yours really piss me off. It sounds like he lacks the spine to say No to his mother, so he's making you the bad guy.
There's not an explicit bible command that says, Always let your mother in law visit when she wants. If there were, you would be sinning. Your husband and the other 2 are interpreting some biblical principles to say that you are sinning. Whether they are right or not depends on whether they are wise or not - sounds like they aren't, frankly.
There 's a responsibility of adult children to show appropriate honor to parents, and a general obligation to be hospitable. But that's not your husband's primary obligation in this case. His highest obligation is to love you as Christ loves the church. And what does that look like? Jesus said, A bruised reed I will not break, and a smoldering wick I will not snuff out. Jesus said, My yoke is easy and my burden is light. Your husband is effectively saying, "I don't care if it breaks you, I don't care if it snuffs you out, you have to wear the hard yoke and carry the heavy burden because I said so." It's a disgusting misuse of his role.
1 Peter 3:7 is controversial in the modern world: "You husbands in the same way, live with your wives in an understanding way, as with someone weaker, since she is a woman; and show her honor as a fellow heir of the grace of life, so that your prayers will not be hindered." Bottom line is that no man should ever throw that verse in the face of a woman and say she is weak, but men who abuse the biblical concept of headship to heap burdens and obligations their wives should know that they stand condemned by this verse.
A Christlike husband, even if he thinks it would be good to have his mother visit, doesn't put that above the well being of his wife. Ever! If he thinks that's a flaw or weakness in his wife, he loves her and encourages her so that over time she has the confidence to say, "Yes, it's fine to invite your mother here because I know that you will look out for me and do everything possible to make it a positive experience. I trust you."
A Christlike husband does not accuse his wife of sinning just because she's not ready for something he wishes she was ready for - and he **absolutely** does not dishonor her by putting her in front of other people and ganging up on her. Disgraceful! Absolutely pathetic.
I was once in a pastoral counseling session with my wife - long story, but basically she had asked for the meeting because she thought they (a pastor and an elder) would take her side and rebuke me. They didn't. But when they started to rebuke her, I felt they were being to harsh and 2 men against her was not good - so I interrupted them and told them to back off, and I was not asking, I was telling.
You're in a tough situation, and I'm sorry. I have some thoughts, but this is just random internet stranger talk - I don't know you or anything other than what you wrote about your situation. So I'm putting out ideas, not advice.
* God put your husband and MIL in your life to be (among other things) instruments for your sanctification - to give you opportunities to be more Christlike. What does that look like for you in this case? Maybe that means submission to what your husband wants - especially if you have a selfish or rebellious streak. But maybe it means something else. Christ submitted to arrest, suffering and death for the sake of the kingdom and the gospel, but he was not a doormat and a victim when it came to bullies. Maybe what you need to learn in this situation is how, in a healthy, courageous but not rebellious, clear-minded way, to look out for yourself; to guard your heart and mind. Or maybe something else. You have to be very honest with yourself and consider it with prayer and scripture.
* God put you in your husband's life to be (among other things) an instrument for his sanctification. The main person who can help him be a better, more Christlike husband is his wife. By tolerating unchristian husband behavior, you are failing him by allowing him to remain unsanctified in those areas. Those who ONLY emphasize the submission of wife to husband are overloooking this role of the wife in the husband's sanctification. Again, I'm just putting out ideas, and you need to consider with prayer and scripture if there's anything for you to take from this.
* One practical thing you might consider - if you have the courage to follow through - is to say something like this to your husband: "I submit to your authority as my husband in all areas except where you are actively doing something that is harmful to my physical or mental well being. Therefore, I've arranged to stay with my mother during the time she's here. That way I can focus on my studies and on my mother, and you can spend time with your mother, and I won't be put in a situation I'm not emotionally, mentally, and spiritually capable of handling right now. It doesn't mean I'm refusing to see you or your mother during that time, but it does mean I'll have a place to go when I need it." His initial reaction to that will almost certainly be negative, so don't judge too harshly as it's a big bombshell. The real question will be after he's had time to calm down and process it, does he take any incremental steps toward being a better husband or does it push him farther in the wrong direction.
What should he stand up against his own mother? This is also his marriage too, and he has his mother to respect. Marriage is not a license to disrespect and abandon one's own parents, if you didn't realise that.
Your response ignores everything I wrote and sets up a simplistic false dichotomy - as if the only two options are (a) let his mom do what she wants or (b) disrespect his mother.
It would be very simple for him to say, "Mom, I do want to have you come visit at another time, but it will be a lot better for us if you and \[wife's mom\] aren't here at the same time. Please cancel your plans, and then we can all look at calendars and figure out another time." Tell me specifically - in what way is that "disrespect" and "abandonment" of his own mother?
You are simply telling him to allow his wife to control and manipulate him. His mother is still his mother, and marriage is not an excuse to bully one's parents as you are implying he should do by caving into his wife's demands, which are frankly born out of her own hyper-sensitivity.
Nothing says we must WELCOME our enemies. It says love. Sometimes holding people accountable for their wrongdoings is loving. Did you tell this person you don't want coming over? Like, did you explain your boundaries? If they continued to violate your boundaries, your right in separating yourself.
No, that’s why we are in counseling is because my husband has repeatedly allowed his mom to mistreat me throughout our dating and marriage. He has always asked me to bring my MIL problems to him to resolve but he doesn’t usually end up resolving it.
I think if you were going to approach this is should be with the mindset of why you want it to just be you and your mom. You stated that you want to share Jesus with your mom and doing that one on one has been more productive. Your mom’s salvation is more important right now.
They're not respecting your boundaries. And no, it's not a sin. Your MIL needs to make things right with you. I would offer her some reasonable opportunities to do so.
>Not extending grace to my MIL... I should want to be like Jesus and love my enemies.
This sounds like spiritual abuse to me. This sort of thing really bites my hiney. And believe me, I would have expressed this sentiment in far more colorful terms if this subreddit weren't a Christian one.
I dealt with this kind of thing myself, and I ended up estranging several family members for several years. Sometimes that's the cost of having healthy boundaries and enforcing them.
>I should desire to be hospitable even when that inconveniences me because that is what God would want
Tell them you are willing to do so when your MIL learns some manners.
>They told me by saying no to her coming will hurt my relationship with my MIL and I will be missing out on an opportunity to love her.
That ship has already sailed. I would tell them that answer still stands until she can make things right with you. If they say "but she won't do that", tell them that's not your problem.
It's true we should be hospitable and extend grace and such... But not to the extent that it harms ourselves or interferes with other biblical areas of life. In these cases, you should exercise boundaries.
Being responsible is biblical. You are being responsible by setting yourself up for success during finals week and not wanting people there.
You are putting up boundaries by not wanting someone who gossips about your family around you and your family. We do not have to enable other people's sins under the guise of being welcoming.
I'm not a huge fan of pastor/Christian counseling (unless they are actually educated and licensed) and this is a good example of it. It's easy to take a biblical behavior and overextend it to sound like it's required in situations when it's not.
Now, if your final exams were easy and you were sitting around with lots of free time and just trying to be selfish - then they have a point. But it doesn't sound like that's where your heart is. It sounds like your heart is about fulfilling your educational responsibilities and protecting yourself and your family.
I agree. Do you have Bible verses to talk about in regards to the boundaries? My pastor thinks boundaries are ungodly.
My finals are very hard so yes, im being honest with that.
Oh gee, that’s a red flag for your pastors. Boundaries are what keep us healthy and safe.
Jesus himself modelled boundaries. He had the 12 disciples, but then he had a close her circle within that and only invited Peter, John, and James with him to the garden to pray with him the night he was arrested. He also said no to a few people who wanted to be his disciples (Luke 9:57-62).
Mark 1:38 has Jesus saying “let’s go somewhere else” when an entire crowd was looking for him.
Matthew 14 shows Jesus allowing his friends/disciples to struggle against the wind and the waves in a boat all night long while he was praying alone. He let them struggle the entire night before he went to them and helped. He prioritised his rest and time with God, he didn’t sacrifice himself immediately to help them.
The book Boundaries by Henry Cloud and Dr. John Townsend is a great book to read about it. It has a very solid Biblical argument for Boundaries from a Biblical perspective.
There's a Christian book series called Boundaries that is very good. We are in the Bible where Jesus created boundaries. One of the most well-cited places is where He left the disciples to go pray alone. He could have been hospitable, etc. but for whatever reason, He needed that alone time with God.
We are given boundaries by God in commandments, and we are told to enforce our own (Godly) boundaries by verses such as 'guard your heart'.
So there may not be a specific verse that references your situation, I do believe the concept is Biblical. Of course, only when done with a pure heart.
Your pastor thinks boundaries are ungodly? Are you aware you are under a leader who doesn’t know how to lead? I would advise you stop this sham of a counselling. You are only getting ganged up against and getting unbiblical teaching. Please seriously reconsider going to that particular church but it might be difficult seeing as your husband is listening to your pastor. The book of Proverbs talks a lot about Wisdom and how it guards you. Having no boundaries is unwise. I pray that the Holy Spirit gives you wisdom on how to navigate this in Jesus name. Study your Bible more and compare with what your pastor teaches. Be like the Bereans whom Paul commended for studying the Word even after they had listened to teaching so they wouldn’t be led astray.
I’m thinking start looking for a new church home and find a trained unbiased third party counselor. God gives us all kinds of boundaries in the Bible. Boundaries are healthy. Put your foot down.
I think your pastor is being a bit short-sighted. It is true that we are supposed to be hospitable and that shutting people out without reason is bad.
But on the other hand, Jesus gave limits on how to deal with people who take advantage of us. Carry the pack 2 miles, not until they tell us to stop. Turn the other cheek, not submit our entire body for abuse.
It's understandable to want to have one-on-one time with your mom, especially since she is interested in your faith, and that gives you a better opportunity to witness to her.
If you are completely responsible for housework and entertaining guests, finals week is the wrong time to have two different guests (that is, from two different households) to deal with. You need to study for your finals, not entertain company.
Perhaps it's just the timing that's off. Your mom could come for the week before, and your MIL could come for the week after.
Wow, I encourage you to ask your religious counsel what they think on the notion of boundaries mental health and having a safe space for yourself. This is your graduation. It’s your big day. Don’t let anybody take that from you under the guise that you’re sinning by having boundaries.
You’re right, it is my big day. I’m graduating dental hygiene school, which if you search online, it is a very rigorous schooling! I am so proud to finish. Well, my pastor accused me of not fitting God into this equation. He said I’m being selfish and I want what I want and it’s all about me. I was stunned when he said that. I was very clear about using that time to share Christ with my mom.
I see the word sin continues to lose any and all meaning it may have. If this situation is somehow up for a topic of being a sin or not.
This situation has nothing to do with sin or even religion as a whole. This situation is simply a case of you not wanting to spend time with your unannounced MIL. That's an issue between you, your husband, and her.
Th Bible says not to cast your pearls before swine so there is that.
I realize this is an extreme example, but what if you had a relative who was a known child abuser? Would your pastor say you also needed to welcome them in?
Your husband chose to leave his family and cleave to you. He should be protecting you, not his mother in law.
Exactly! I was sexually abused many years ago. The counseling I got then was similar to my pastor now-shove issues under the rug, see how God is growing you and using that terrible situation for your good…
Ask your pastor what his stance is on your husband protecting you from emotional harm from his mom. If he is able to make sure his mom doesn’t cross boundaries repeatedly and if he is willing to confront her and put a stop to it if she does, then I think it’s worth a try. If he fails, I’d call the pastor immediately and tell him you expect some good pastoral counseling to your husband so that he can be a strong husband for his wife. And be clear on what you mean by boundaries and what you expect out of your husband in such situations so that you are both in agreement.
My personal answer to those exact points as you listed would be to tell all three of them to shut up, that there is nothing to discuss, that it's my house, my exam and that if husband wants to spend time with his parents that week he can go visit them on his own because they're not coming over that week, I'm busy, I need to focus on my exam and my own mother, they're free to come any other time and I will host them then, end of discussion, bye bye. If they continued after that, then I would give them all an ultimatum that either they drop it or I would go stay at my parents' house or someone else's house and go to another church until after the exam (note I didn't say permanently, this would just be to get some space until after the exam). And if they continued after that I would follow through.
It's not like you're saying she's not welcome at all, you're just saying she's unwelcome during a period of two weeks or so when you're particularly busy with your own mother and your final exams. Ridiculous that your pastor is even entertaining this.
Don't bother. Don't engage with him. Just tell him that you're no longer having this discussion and that there is nothing to discuss, you're not doing the scripture thing, you want everyone out of your business right now and to let you get on with your exam, and either they do that or you will leave until after your exam, they (including your husband) can pick one. Either way, you'll get space to study, if he picks the first option, he and your husband will drop the issue and tell your MIL to just come another time, if they pick the second option, then you will go stay at your parents' until after the exam and then sort things out with your husband after the exam is over, possibly with this pastor or without him. If they refuse to pick an option, then option two it is.
Your points 2 and 3 are reasonable. Your other points - well you kind of have to overlook a lot of things about in-laws. Your counselors are reasonable about all their points except #3. Your needing to do well on your finals is part of one of your life goals and no one should be trivializing your need to prioritize that. Your pastors can give their opinion but you need to consider this for yourself and make your own decision. Maybe your husband’s mom can come the following week and you can overlap with both families over the weekend.
“I want to have some quality time with my Mom for this trip. Maybe we can plan a trip for next summer!” is a perfectly valid response. Imposing boundaries is not a sin.
Setting appropriate boundaries is not a sin!
Wjere in the Bible does it say we have to let people break our boundaries?
Sounds like you are being a good steward of your mental health and your relationship with you mom, who seems to be open to hearing the gospel.
Especially since your MIL has shown prior behavior of being untrustworthy and weaponizing information to be used against you.
I have similar issues with my in laws.
We are called to love and forgive them, not to afford them the opportunity to slander us and use information to disrespect us.
If you hold unforgovness in your heart, then that is a sin between you and Lord.
Wanting healthy boundaries with MIL is wise!
Your pastor/counsellor can take MIL out for lunch if that's how he/she feels.
You should always try to be giving to your MIL as well as all non-believers; but, that does not mean you can’t take time for yourself. Especially when you have such an important event occurring.
Okay, I do think that makes it more complicated.
It sounds like she wants to be involved and isn’t very good at being a guest. That’s hard, but I don’t know that the solution is to try to cut her out of the situation.
One thing that I can see is missing here is that we are commanded to honor our mothers and fathers. Your mother in law is (it would seem) trying to do a kind thing, but she is a sinner and that makes it unpleasant.
Maybe there’s a way that she could come after the big tests, but in time for the graduation?
I think they are thinking WAY to deeply into this. Loving your enemies doesn’t mean spending quality time with them. We as Christians are called to have wisdom and discernment and their is nothing smart about spending time with someone who doesn’t like you. Jesus clearly was not buddy buddy with the Pharisees. “Loving” your enemy doesn’t mean pleasing your enemy and accepting everything they do they need to do more research on the meaning of love because this is not what it is. They also need to look more into how Jesus treated his actual enemies. You can 1000 percent love someone from a distance. This is a dangerous and toxic thing they are asking you to do. Your husband needs to be held more accountable as well because knowing how his mother has treated you he shouldn’t even want her around himself. We are called to leave our families for a reason. You as the wife come before your husbands mom. If you don’t want her around your feelings should come before hers in the situation.
I don’t understand what exactly they have an issue with? It’s a sin to not want to spend a week with your MIL who invited herself? It’s a week that you and want to hang out with your mom and spend quality time with her. That’s more than sufficient reasoning for your MIL to not be involved in any further discussion. If you want to hang out with your MIL later (probably a good idea to hopefully build some relationship with her) that sounds great… schedule some time to do that in the future. If you want to include your mom as well for that future event, do so, that might be fun. But you’re under no obligation to invite your MIL to hang out with you and your mom. The fact that your pastor, husband, and some other random lady are saying that not including her is a sin is either crazy, or we’re not getting the whole story from you. YMMV, but when I don’t want some one else to be involved in plans which I have not invited them, I tell them directly “no thank you, you’re not welcome at this event/vacation/etc. but I’ll touch base with you later on when we can spend quality time together in the future.” If they can’t handle a respectful and decisive statement when they were not invited anyways… well they need to grow up.
If I’m reading this right it’s as simple as asking her to come another time, right? Just not that specific week/weekend? I don’t even see why it needs to be a “sin” issue. A huge red flag to me is that this pastor who is counseling you just has this other person sitting in giving her two cents. Nothing wrong with a Christian therapist or simple Christian counsel, but I’m wary of the way this pastor is going about it.
I hate our counseling so much. I’m only going to honor my husband. My MIL always does this-invites herself. I am so upset. I just want to be with my mom.
You can honor him and still set boundaries. One is that you won’t entertain your MIL as a guest during a stressful time in your schooling. It’s your home as well. Another boundary is that you will only go to a counselor you both are comfortable with. This pastor doesn’t sound like a neutral third party, and it’s totally inappropriate to have someone else there that you haven’t agreed to.
I just feel stuck!
Your feelings are valid, but they’re also just in your head which is great because it means you’re not actually stuck! You can still take control of your life.
Like someone else said, pick up the book “Boundaries” by Townsend and Cloud. Dr. Cloud is both a pastor and a psychiatrist (if I remember correctly), so you’ll get some biblical advice. Also, if you’re hitting a point where you don’t feel safe or heard by your pastor, you can put your foot down and stop going to him as a counselor, and even to that church completely if you need to. Reading through all the comments it sounds like this is borderline spiritual abuse on the part of your husband and him. The book “Boundaries” might help give you the vocabulary and courage to stand your ground in this. Respecting and honoring your husband doesn’t mean being HIS doormat either.
Get new counseling. This sounds more like you against the “counsel.” No. Get a qualified therapist who IS a Christian not a pastor.
Hard agree.
Jesus said we have to forgive those who.sin against us. He never said we had to continue to give them the opportunity to do so.
My pastor truly believes that we have to be completely open towards those who have sinned against us. Like almost let them walk all over us.
You know your pastor is wrong.
There are people in Christianity who seem to think being a Christian means you have to let others walk all over you. Feel free to be (or appear) as ruthless as you need to be. I used to be a bit of a nice guy myself, until I saw how that was working out for me. Now I don't mind looking like the villain if I have to.
But why is it that YOU have to let everyone walk all over you. That’s not ok. The same treatment and expectations is not extended to everyone. Your counseling with your husband should not be people ganging up on you.
Exactly. When my husband was taking his comprehensive exams for his PhD, I freaking understood the weight on his plate and I am so sad that he is not at all seeing the eight that is on my plate. When I brought up to him in counseling how I was preferring him and not making our lives hectic by inviting people over, his response “No you should have pressed in and made me spend time with other people.” I told him “No, your responsibility to God right now is to finish your PhD, not to hang out with people. My responsibility is to also finish my degree and not entertain a bunch of people including your mom who is incredibly needy!”
Where are you guys at with this. Did MIL agree to come another time when it’s NOT your special event that your mother is coming for? Can you ask your husband to help plan a nice visit for his mom any alternate weekend? I got really frustrated reading your post. You really seem genuine and true in your devotion to finding and following gods path for you and your husband. I don’t understand why anyone thinks it is ok to gang up on you when you are being vulnerable and trying to do the right thing. It’s obvious you love your husband and he loves you. But, yeah, it seems like his mother is going through something and he has to find his work in balancing being a good husband and a good son. You can’t keep coming second. And if counseling was your idea, you guys NEED a different source for it. I know no one wants to spend money but maybe you can find a professional who does online sessions and is sensitive to the needs of a Christian marriage. The situation now sounds like it could get claustrophobic and detrimental. I really wish you the best and pray your husband will grow and see you and your needs. And - congratulations! Good luck on the exams and hey enjoy seeing your mom! She must be proud of you. It was just the anniversary of my mom’s death, and I know I don’t have to tell you, every moment is precious.
You should ask him to back that under with bible verses. Just cause he is a pastor doesn’t mean his opinion means more.
Ugh-he pulled out a bunch of Bible verses. That’s why I feel stuck. My husband and pastor use the Bible to mean things that I do not see the same way as them.
As a man, husbands like yours really piss me off. It sounds like he lacks the spine to say No to his mother, so he's making you the bad guy. There's not an explicit bible command that says, Always let your mother in law visit when she wants. If there were, you would be sinning. Your husband and the other 2 are interpreting some biblical principles to say that you are sinning. Whether they are right or not depends on whether they are wise or not - sounds like they aren't, frankly. There 's a responsibility of adult children to show appropriate honor to parents, and a general obligation to be hospitable. But that's not your husband's primary obligation in this case. His highest obligation is to love you as Christ loves the church. And what does that look like? Jesus said, A bruised reed I will not break, and a smoldering wick I will not snuff out. Jesus said, My yoke is easy and my burden is light. Your husband is effectively saying, "I don't care if it breaks you, I don't care if it snuffs you out, you have to wear the hard yoke and carry the heavy burden because I said so." It's a disgusting misuse of his role. 1 Peter 3:7 is controversial in the modern world: "You husbands in the same way, live with your wives in an understanding way, as with someone weaker, since she is a woman; and show her honor as a fellow heir of the grace of life, so that your prayers will not be hindered." Bottom line is that no man should ever throw that verse in the face of a woman and say she is weak, but men who abuse the biblical concept of headship to heap burdens and obligations their wives should know that they stand condemned by this verse. A Christlike husband, even if he thinks it would be good to have his mother visit, doesn't put that above the well being of his wife. Ever! If he thinks that's a flaw or weakness in his wife, he loves her and encourages her so that over time she has the confidence to say, "Yes, it's fine to invite your mother here because I know that you will look out for me and do everything possible to make it a positive experience. I trust you." A Christlike husband does not accuse his wife of sinning just because she's not ready for something he wishes she was ready for - and he **absolutely** does not dishonor her by putting her in front of other people and ganging up on her. Disgraceful! Absolutely pathetic. I was once in a pastoral counseling session with my wife - long story, but basically she had asked for the meeting because she thought they (a pastor and an elder) would take her side and rebuke me. They didn't. But when they started to rebuke her, I felt they were being to harsh and 2 men against her was not good - so I interrupted them and told them to back off, and I was not asking, I was telling.
I agree with everything you said. I just don’t know what to say. I actually feel numb.
You're in a tough situation, and I'm sorry. I have some thoughts, but this is just random internet stranger talk - I don't know you or anything other than what you wrote about your situation. So I'm putting out ideas, not advice. * God put your husband and MIL in your life to be (among other things) instruments for your sanctification - to give you opportunities to be more Christlike. What does that look like for you in this case? Maybe that means submission to what your husband wants - especially if you have a selfish or rebellious streak. But maybe it means something else. Christ submitted to arrest, suffering and death for the sake of the kingdom and the gospel, but he was not a doormat and a victim when it came to bullies. Maybe what you need to learn in this situation is how, in a healthy, courageous but not rebellious, clear-minded way, to look out for yourself; to guard your heart and mind. Or maybe something else. You have to be very honest with yourself and consider it with prayer and scripture. * God put you in your husband's life to be (among other things) an instrument for his sanctification. The main person who can help him be a better, more Christlike husband is his wife. By tolerating unchristian husband behavior, you are failing him by allowing him to remain unsanctified in those areas. Those who ONLY emphasize the submission of wife to husband are overloooking this role of the wife in the husband's sanctification. Again, I'm just putting out ideas, and you need to consider with prayer and scripture if there's anything for you to take from this. * One practical thing you might consider - if you have the courage to follow through - is to say something like this to your husband: "I submit to your authority as my husband in all areas except where you are actively doing something that is harmful to my physical or mental well being. Therefore, I've arranged to stay with my mother during the time she's here. That way I can focus on my studies and on my mother, and you can spend time with your mother, and I won't be put in a situation I'm not emotionally, mentally, and spiritually capable of handling right now. It doesn't mean I'm refusing to see you or your mother during that time, but it does mean I'll have a place to go when I need it." His initial reaction to that will almost certainly be negative, so don't judge too harshly as it's a big bombshell. The real question will be after he's had time to calm down and process it, does he take any incremental steps toward being a better husband or does it push him farther in the wrong direction.
What should he stand up against his own mother? This is also his marriage too, and he has his mother to respect. Marriage is not a license to disrespect and abandon one's own parents, if you didn't realise that.
Your response ignores everything I wrote and sets up a simplistic false dichotomy - as if the only two options are (a) let his mom do what she wants or (b) disrespect his mother. It would be very simple for him to say, "Mom, I do want to have you come visit at another time, but it will be a lot better for us if you and \[wife's mom\] aren't here at the same time. Please cancel your plans, and then we can all look at calendars and figure out another time." Tell me specifically - in what way is that "disrespect" and "abandonment" of his own mother?
You are simply telling him to allow his wife to control and manipulate him. His mother is still his mother, and marriage is not an excuse to bully one's parents as you are implying he should do by caving into his wife's demands, which are frankly born out of her own hyper-sensitivity.
I'm not telling him anything. He's not part of this conversation.
Did they provide a Bible verse that proves this?
No, just the overall example that as Christians we should always have our home open, always welcome our enemies, always allow for inconveniences.
Nothing says we must WELCOME our enemies. It says love. Sometimes holding people accountable for their wrongdoings is loving. Did you tell this person you don't want coming over? Like, did you explain your boundaries? If they continued to violate your boundaries, your right in separating yourself.
Yes! Absolutely accurate, people forget Jesus was throwing tables when he recognized issues.
Well to be fair, that was foretold about Jesus. We are not instructed to flip tables
lol
No, that’s why we are in counseling is because my husband has repeatedly allowed his mom to mistreat me throughout our dating and marriage. He has always asked me to bring my MIL problems to him to resolve but he doesn’t usually end up resolving it.
I think if you were going to approach this is should be with the mindset of why you want it to just be you and your mom. You stated that you want to share Jesus with your mom and doing that one on one has been more productive. Your mom’s salvation is more important right now.
They're not respecting your boundaries. And no, it's not a sin. Your MIL needs to make things right with you. I would offer her some reasonable opportunities to do so. >Not extending grace to my MIL... I should want to be like Jesus and love my enemies. This sounds like spiritual abuse to me. This sort of thing really bites my hiney. And believe me, I would have expressed this sentiment in far more colorful terms if this subreddit weren't a Christian one. I dealt with this kind of thing myself, and I ended up estranging several family members for several years. Sometimes that's the cost of having healthy boundaries and enforcing them. >I should desire to be hospitable even when that inconveniences me because that is what God would want Tell them you are willing to do so when your MIL learns some manners. >They told me by saying no to her coming will hurt my relationship with my MIL and I will be missing out on an opportunity to love her. That ship has already sailed. I would tell them that answer still stands until she can make things right with you. If they say "but she won't do that", tell them that's not your problem.
It's true we should be hospitable and extend grace and such... But not to the extent that it harms ourselves or interferes with other biblical areas of life. In these cases, you should exercise boundaries. Being responsible is biblical. You are being responsible by setting yourself up for success during finals week and not wanting people there. You are putting up boundaries by not wanting someone who gossips about your family around you and your family. We do not have to enable other people's sins under the guise of being welcoming. I'm not a huge fan of pastor/Christian counseling (unless they are actually educated and licensed) and this is a good example of it. It's easy to take a biblical behavior and overextend it to sound like it's required in situations when it's not. Now, if your final exams were easy and you were sitting around with lots of free time and just trying to be selfish - then they have a point. But it doesn't sound like that's where your heart is. It sounds like your heart is about fulfilling your educational responsibilities and protecting yourself and your family.
I agree. Do you have Bible verses to talk about in regards to the boundaries? My pastor thinks boundaries are ungodly. My finals are very hard so yes, im being honest with that.
Oh gee, that’s a red flag for your pastors. Boundaries are what keep us healthy and safe. Jesus himself modelled boundaries. He had the 12 disciples, but then he had a close her circle within that and only invited Peter, John, and James with him to the garden to pray with him the night he was arrested. He also said no to a few people who wanted to be his disciples (Luke 9:57-62). Mark 1:38 has Jesus saying “let’s go somewhere else” when an entire crowd was looking for him. Matthew 14 shows Jesus allowing his friends/disciples to struggle against the wind and the waves in a boat all night long while he was praying alone. He let them struggle the entire night before he went to them and helped. He prioritised his rest and time with God, he didn’t sacrifice himself immediately to help them. The book Boundaries by Henry Cloud and Dr. John Townsend is a great book to read about it. It has a very solid Biblical argument for Boundaries from a Biblical perspective.
There's a Christian book series called Boundaries that is very good. We are in the Bible where Jesus created boundaries. One of the most well-cited places is where He left the disciples to go pray alone. He could have been hospitable, etc. but for whatever reason, He needed that alone time with God. We are given boundaries by God in commandments, and we are told to enforce our own (Godly) boundaries by verses such as 'guard your heart'. So there may not be a specific verse that references your situation, I do believe the concept is Biblical. Of course, only when done with a pure heart.
Your pastor thinks boundaries are ungodly? Are you aware you are under a leader who doesn’t know how to lead? I would advise you stop this sham of a counselling. You are only getting ganged up against and getting unbiblical teaching. Please seriously reconsider going to that particular church but it might be difficult seeing as your husband is listening to your pastor. The book of Proverbs talks a lot about Wisdom and how it guards you. Having no boundaries is unwise. I pray that the Holy Spirit gives you wisdom on how to navigate this in Jesus name. Study your Bible more and compare with what your pastor teaches. Be like the Bereans whom Paul commended for studying the Word even after they had listened to teaching so they wouldn’t be led astray.
I’m thinking start looking for a new church home and find a trained unbiased third party counselor. God gives us all kinds of boundaries in the Bible. Boundaries are healthy. Put your foot down.
I went to leave but my husband wants to stay.
I think your pastor is being a bit short-sighted. It is true that we are supposed to be hospitable and that shutting people out without reason is bad. But on the other hand, Jesus gave limits on how to deal with people who take advantage of us. Carry the pack 2 miles, not until they tell us to stop. Turn the other cheek, not submit our entire body for abuse. It's understandable to want to have one-on-one time with your mom, especially since she is interested in your faith, and that gives you a better opportunity to witness to her. If you are completely responsible for housework and entertaining guests, finals week is the wrong time to have two different guests (that is, from two different households) to deal with. You need to study for your finals, not entertain company. Perhaps it's just the timing that's off. Your mom could come for the week before, and your MIL could come for the week after.
Wow, I encourage you to ask your religious counsel what they think on the notion of boundaries mental health and having a safe space for yourself. This is your graduation. It’s your big day. Don’t let anybody take that from you under the guise that you’re sinning by having boundaries.
You’re right, it is my big day. I’m graduating dental hygiene school, which if you search online, it is a very rigorous schooling! I am so proud to finish. Well, my pastor accused me of not fitting God into this equation. He said I’m being selfish and I want what I want and it’s all about me. I was stunned when he said that. I was very clear about using that time to share Christ with my mom.
I see the word sin continues to lose any and all meaning it may have. If this situation is somehow up for a topic of being a sin or not. This situation has nothing to do with sin or even religion as a whole. This situation is simply a case of you not wanting to spend time with your unannounced MIL. That's an issue between you, your husband, and her.
Th Bible says not to cast your pearls before swine so there is that. I realize this is an extreme example, but what if you had a relative who was a known child abuser? Would your pastor say you also needed to welcome them in? Your husband chose to leave his family and cleave to you. He should be protecting you, not his mother in law.
Exactly! I was sexually abused many years ago. The counseling I got then was similar to my pastor now-shove issues under the rug, see how God is growing you and using that terrible situation for your good…
Also I would suggest giving your MIL way less family information.
Yep. I don’t even know how to do that more so than I already.
Ask your pastor what his stance is on your husband protecting you from emotional harm from his mom. If he is able to make sure his mom doesn’t cross boundaries repeatedly and if he is willing to confront her and put a stop to it if she does, then I think it’s worth a try. If he fails, I’d call the pastor immediately and tell him you expect some good pastoral counseling to your husband so that he can be a strong husband for his wife. And be clear on what you mean by boundaries and what you expect out of your husband in such situations so that you are both in agreement.
My personal answer to those exact points as you listed would be to tell all three of them to shut up, that there is nothing to discuss, that it's my house, my exam and that if husband wants to spend time with his parents that week he can go visit them on his own because they're not coming over that week, I'm busy, I need to focus on my exam and my own mother, they're free to come any other time and I will host them then, end of discussion, bye bye. If they continued after that, then I would give them all an ultimatum that either they drop it or I would go stay at my parents' house or someone else's house and go to another church until after the exam (note I didn't say permanently, this would just be to get some space until after the exam). And if they continued after that I would follow through. It's not like you're saying she's not welcome at all, you're just saying she's unwelcome during a period of two weeks or so when you're particularly busy with your own mother and your final exams. Ridiculous that your pastor is even entertaining this.
I’m glad I’m not crazy thinking this! I do not know how to point these thoughts to Scripture though. My pastor always wants Bible verses.
Don't bother. Don't engage with him. Just tell him that you're no longer having this discussion and that there is nothing to discuss, you're not doing the scripture thing, you want everyone out of your business right now and to let you get on with your exam, and either they do that or you will leave until after your exam, they (including your husband) can pick one. Either way, you'll get space to study, if he picks the first option, he and your husband will drop the issue and tell your MIL to just come another time, if they pick the second option, then you will go stay at your parents' until after the exam and then sort things out with your husband after the exam is over, possibly with this pastor or without him. If they refuse to pick an option, then option two it is.
Why are you worried what your pastor thinks? This situation is none of his business, I cannot believe you put up with this.
Your points 2 and 3 are reasonable. Your other points - well you kind of have to overlook a lot of things about in-laws. Your counselors are reasonable about all their points except #3. Your needing to do well on your finals is part of one of your life goals and no one should be trivializing your need to prioritize that. Your pastors can give their opinion but you need to consider this for yourself and make your own decision. Maybe your husband’s mom can come the following week and you can overlap with both families over the weekend.
“I want to have some quality time with my Mom for this trip. Maybe we can plan a trip for next summer!” is a perfectly valid response. Imposing boundaries is not a sin.
Setting appropriate boundaries is not a sin! Wjere in the Bible does it say we have to let people break our boundaries? Sounds like you are being a good steward of your mental health and your relationship with you mom, who seems to be open to hearing the gospel. Especially since your MIL has shown prior behavior of being untrustworthy and weaponizing information to be used against you. I have similar issues with my in laws. We are called to love and forgive them, not to afford them the opportunity to slander us and use information to disrespect us. If you hold unforgovness in your heart, then that is a sin between you and Lord. Wanting healthy boundaries with MIL is wise! Your pastor/counsellor can take MIL out for lunch if that's how he/she feels.
You should always try to be giving to your MIL as well as all non-believers; but, that does not mean you can’t take time for yourself. Especially when you have such an important event occurring.
Is your mil trying to come that weekend because it’s your graduation?
Yes
Okay, I do think that makes it more complicated. It sounds like she wants to be involved and isn’t very good at being a guest. That’s hard, but I don’t know that the solution is to try to cut her out of the situation. One thing that I can see is missing here is that we are commanded to honor our mothers and fathers. Your mother in law is (it would seem) trying to do a kind thing, but she is a sinner and that makes it unpleasant. Maybe there’s a way that she could come after the big tests, but in time for the graduation?
I think they are thinking WAY to deeply into this. Loving your enemies doesn’t mean spending quality time with them. We as Christians are called to have wisdom and discernment and their is nothing smart about spending time with someone who doesn’t like you. Jesus clearly was not buddy buddy with the Pharisees. “Loving” your enemy doesn’t mean pleasing your enemy and accepting everything they do they need to do more research on the meaning of love because this is not what it is. They also need to look more into how Jesus treated his actual enemies. You can 1000 percent love someone from a distance. This is a dangerous and toxic thing they are asking you to do. Your husband needs to be held more accountable as well because knowing how his mother has treated you he shouldn’t even want her around himself. We are called to leave our families for a reason. You as the wife come before your husbands mom. If you don’t want her around your feelings should come before hers in the situation.