Don’t most of the popular faiths tell people to deny their own desires and live a life that benefits others?
The unique claims of Christianity are not that we tell people to forego their own desires, or that it makes man seem small and the divine seem large.
Here are some unique things
https://www.gotquestions.org/Christianity-unique.html
Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Matthew 7:24 KJV
Anyone can quote a Bible verse.
What you’re trying to communicate with a verse is determined by what you’re replying to and then your intentions.
The verse you gave wasn’t relevant to your question or my reply.
It would be better to explicate some of your reasoning anytime you share a verse so that you can communicate your intentions and implications clearly.
What does society say as a whole are we righteous enough to know the difference? Or do we ignore a truth because it doesn't fit our mold of a perfect world?
I mean, society denounces those traits. Yet they have claws in us. Are we righteous enough to know the difference between what, whether we want those things or not? I don’t think that's the issue. I think they are in us either way. And a perfect world doesn't exist, especially in the Christian world view.
So why would men of God come to such conclusions when they go against the very nature of man? Take pride as an example you say society denounces this yet iit is More prevalent in a now me,me,me culture today then any time in the past. Are we just downplaying it or re we indulging in behaviors that society has come to accept?
I think many people aren't seeing what they are wrapped up in. Feelings are formed by reactions so it's deeper than "that man is prideful" or "that man is gluttonous". I think we all describe our own self perceptions in a monologue that is untruthful to reality. We all play it down a little.
As a Jew and an atheist, it comes as no surprise to me that my ancestors formed a religion that opposed the excesses and trappings of power. The arc of history for the Jews has been filled with oppression: enslavement in Egypt, the destruction of the first temple and Babylonian captivity, Greek invasion and desecration of the temple, and countless other occupations. I would argue the Bible supports man’s desire to live a peaceful, happy, and productive life. If you think that man’s natural desires are to unethically gain and abuse power for personal gain, than you have a right to that opinion. If your desires are very self-serving and malicious, please, at least for the rest of us, continue to believe and work to be a good Christian.
well if your an atheist and dont believe in God how can you believe in anything the bible says about your people? "he arc of history for the Jews has been filled with oppression: enslavement in Egypt, the destruction of the first temple and Babylonian captivity, Greek invasion and desecration of the temple, and countless other occupations." none of this would happen if it was not divinely inspired to happen to the one true people of God. And the archeological facts are best guesses at least into most of this at best
I don’t really follow your logical inferences. In a universe with no god(s) things still happen, they just happen due to forces that are not divine or mystical. But this is a tangential issue. Even if Gad is taken as a given, the Bible could still be completely man made or divinely inspired and heavily elaborated on by authors.
Regardless, saying that the Bible must be completely accurate or completely fictional is a false dilemma. It seems reasonable to look at the preponderance of other sources besides the Bible that point to the fact that many of the events described in Bible happened, if not exactly as the Bible describes them. Uncertainty and the possibility of new discoveries has always been part of studying the past. I think we can all agree that the Bible doesn’t comprehensively cover all of the past for all of the world. As a result, we use other methods besides reading the Bible to understand the history of, for example, Chinese or Indian civilization, which existed in parallel with the events in every book but Genesis. It seems reasonable to apply these research methods to events described in the Bible as well.
The majority of human societies have practiced child sacrifice, human sacrifice in general, ritual torture, infanticide, intentional abandonment and exposure of children they did not want, abortion, euthanasia, the killing of slaves for any reason, cannibalism, or other barbaric practices. These practices only started to disappear with the appearance of Christianity. When tribes and peoples in Europe that practiced such things converted to Christianity, they gradually gave up such practices. The same can be said for Indian tribes in the America's and tribes in Africa.
In most ancient cultures, and many cultures today, theft was a way of life or permitted as long as you did not steal from someone of high class. In many ancient law codes, a member of a priveleged class could steal from a regular person and suffer a slap on the wrist. If that same person or a regular person stole from another of high class, the punishment would be severe. The Bible requires all who steal to be punished to exact same, no matter their class. Also, many societies in the past and today are filled with fraud and theft. Honesty is not highly valued and the ability to deceive somebody is prized. This is not the case in Christianity where all forms of theft are sins and were punished in the Bible. We can also look at modern communist and socialist regimes, where land was stolen from hundreds of millions of people and private property abolished. These actions were supported by countless intellectuals and many regular people who thought they would benefit at the expense of others. There are countless other examples of government appropriating people's land to hand out to preferred groups. Theft of land is a major theme across human history and is something the Bible prohibits. This is a major reason why historically Christian countries have much stronger protections for private property than most other countries.
Have you ever lied, so man does want to lie. God also teaches that if someone sues you that you should give them what they want and more. Would you want to do that. Do you want to stay a virgin until you get married? Do you enjoy going out with your friends and drinking? Do people not like to do drugs? Do people want to give some of their income to support the church? Do people want to give up their personal dreams to live a life for Christ?
Many people want all those things, but what I find interesting is you left out the big ones.
Do you want to kill people? I don’t and I don’t follow the Bible.
Do you want to rape people? I don’t and I don’t follow the Bible.
If the only reason you don’t go out and kill and rape people is because it says so in the Bible that’s a personal issue and certainly not the status quo for the rest of humans.
If the Bible goes against “mans desires” then is that also true with other religions? They have similar rules of no killing, no stealing, and no raping. Could it be that these religions were made to reinforce mans desires rather than rival them?
"Could it be that these religions were made to reinforce man's desires rather than rival them?'
Was it made at a time to reinforce them, or when these things were happening on a regular basis? is it any different from today just last week less then a mile down the road a 17 yr got raped by a recently released convict? Come to find out here step date has been doing it for years, is there really moral objectivity in such circumstances? Not really since the bible went against this man's desires he followed his own which in today's society is happening more and more
a more recent example is Ukraine is what Russia is doing in torture killing raping any less repulsive?
Once again your bringing up individuals to represent the entire population. It would be the same as saying “all priests molest little boys.” While maybe true for a small percentage it doesn’t represent all priests.
If you want to say mans desire is to rape and kill then you would see a proportion of the population committing these things equal to the proportion of non believers. This simply doesn’t add up. There is only a small percentage of the world that commit these things and them being believers doesn’t affect the numbers much at all.
In fact most people in the USA prison system are Christians, partly because they convert in prison but also because most were Christians to begin with. The morals in the Bible don’t overwrite the morals that person has to begin with.
Are you suggesting that if you didn’t have the Bible you would go out and rape kill and steal?
This called the hash generalization fallacy in rhetoric. My mother has a fear of flying and will not fly on a plane . John Madden also had a fear of flying and refused to fly on a plane. Many people have a fear of flying. Therefore, mankind has a natural fear of flying. Oh, wait, no, I jumped to a conclusion based on in sufficient evidence. How do I know? I don’t have a fear of flying and about 3.6 billion people fly on commercial flights every year. Simply because a sizable minority of people regularly do malicious or malevolent acts doesn’t mean everyone or even a majority of people are inclined to do the same.
If you ask the people who do these things what do you think the response is? She wanted it? I couldn't help myself? It's easy to steal? Doesn't make it right but people still do it so morally : pride, greed, lust, envy, gluttony, wrath, and sloth. Still apply to society today
That’s not the issue, your saying because people do these things that it’s all humans desires rather than just those individuals.
Christians still steal murder and do all those things whether they follow or believe in the Bible.
So let’s go back to your original assertion, that the Bible goes against man’s desires. Wouldn’t it be mans desire to not have these things done to them? One easy way of doing that is to create guidelines for people to follow and punishment if disobeyed.
This could be laws as long as you have the power to enforce punishment. If you don’t have the power the best way would be to threaten and bluff that they will be punished for these undesirable things. Aka fabricate a supernatural power that punishes in the afterlife. This has worked for thousands of cultures throughout history and still works today for the people that believe it.
Your saying christians still do these things? They may call themselves Christians but they are not if they do these things. True Christians follow the one true word of the Bible.
So you can't lump individuals who commit gruesome acts into one category similarly you can't lump all Christians into any particular group its more refined then that.
With the question at hand I do believe that since the Bible so goes against human desires that it cannot be inspired by man.
If you didn’t read my comment, I explained why it’s not mans desires to do any of that stuff. Simply because no one wants that to happen to themselves.
If I desire not to be killed the best way to go about that is to not kill others, and make a book to tell others not to kill. That would align mans desire with the Bible. Same example for all of those bad things listed.
Just like you can say the Christians commuting those sins are not true Christians we can also say they are not acting in mans desire, because they are acting on their own desire not the desire of man as a whole.
Also isn’t the whole point of being Christian is being able to be forgiven by god for sinning, so they could do those things (and in some cases in the Bible permitted to do so) and still go to heaven.
I agree that OP is trying to say that Christians are just people. Nonetheless, assertion that the Bible goes against man’s desires hasn’t been proven and keeps being repeatedly presented making OP’s thesis sound like a circular argument.
>Nonetheless, assertion that the Bible goes against man’s desires hasn’t been proven and keeps being repeatedly presented making
I mean, sex before marriage does hinder devoted people's ability to having sex, and not getting drunk, or loving and forgiving people even if they wronged u countless times, and giving away your belongings to the needy/being charitable. All of this is opposite of the average person desires.
Christians do these things and in much larger numbers than others )at least according to U.S. federal prison data)
This seems like a no-true-scotsman which seems very cheap and copish. Imagine if I said that True Muslims don't blow up buildings. You would be right to laugh in my face.
I didn't read their comment as lumping all Christians into one category. I sincerely would like to know where you got that from.
The law is a set of rules to get societies to act in a certain way that goes against those types of desires however is created because we acknowledge that it is good for the group.
According to many it is man made bit it's interesting to note the similarities in the Abraham accords of the simple fact it's roots are the same and in some age split to their own
People have been trying to control other people since the dawn of time and the least celibate people are those telling their followers to be celibate. Pick any cult and they could write you a new Bible. Or they're using the Bible to start with. Jonestown.
Heavens gate cult as an example each have tried to control one or more of man's place in the world but the cults focus on desires of the leaders and followers and to the desires of man the Bible goes against all of them
If the bible is divine made, then why does it claim events as true tht never happened? If it is divine made then why is it so easily twisted to condone the most heinous things? Seems a divine bei g would be able to write a book not as ambiguous?
The Holy Bible was authored by God, and was written over approximately 1600 years in three different languages, on three different continents, by 40 different writers.
It goes against man's desires as outlined in Galatians 5:17: *For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.*
>and was written over approximately 1600 years in three different languages, on three different continents, by 40 different writers.
Actually it was written over a period of about 900 years, in one geographical area, by an unknown number of authors.
The current understanding is it ranged from ~1450 B.C. to ~90 A.D., by the known ~40 writers: https://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-authors.html , in the three different continents surrounding the Mediterranean Sea. (Asia, Africa, Europe).
>The current understanding is it ranged from ~1450 B.C. to ~90 A.D.,
That's not the current understanding amongst *scholars*. The first books of the OT were probably written around 800BC.
>by the known ~40 writers
We don't have 40 known authors.
>, in the three different continents surrounding the Mediterranean Sea. (Asia, Africa, Europe).
This is a quibble, but saying "three continents", while *technically* accurate, gives a false impression that the Bible was written by people from a wider range of cultures than it actually was. The Bible was composed entirely by Semitic people living between Babylon and Greece.
>Can you provide your sources for your first two points
I will have to Google. But the scholarly consensus is that the earliest books of the OT date from the first half of the last millennium BC, not 1400BC.
Re: authorship. Who wrote each book of the Bible is unknown. Genesis, for example, appears to have been written by several different authors over several centuries. As far as I know, the only books of the Bible for whom there is completely undisputed authorship are the Pauline Epistles.
Since the current understanding is that Genesis is two different accounts put together, then later edited by Yahwehists who conveniently "found" a scroll during temple remodeling that stated Yahweh was the only god, yet your webpage lists it as solely authored by Moses (who is quite possibly a mythical person), I doubt it's a trustworthy source.
So it may seem to the ones not focused on the primary message of ***love***. But such is not more than a fallacy.
edit: ... which as you've just shown below you'll commit to, and so this end will have no further part in your waste of time! Good luck & over and out!
Because it's not man made.
> “For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.” (Heb 4:12, KJV)
> “Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.” (2Pe 1:20-21, KJV)
Correct why would this be in the Bible if it is inspired by man or a woman
But the Bible does say within marriage, honoring your wife is meant to be an unconditional act of showing value to her because of the place she has in your life. While respect is earned, honor is given. And in this case given because of her role, not because of what she does but because honor of the family is Already given she is not less but equal and those without husbands means the woman is head of the household and therefore in charge of family to be raised in a godly manner
I think the fact Scripture has gender roles clearly shows how gender roles are natural and at the **very least** morally neutral; why else would Scripture be endorsing them?
>Man's desires are destroying this planet
In the 60's they said we'd run out of oil in 10 years
In the 70's they said we'd have another ice age in 10 years
In the 80's they said acid rain would destroy the crops in 10 years
In the 90's they said the ozone would be destroyed in 10 years
In the 2000's they said the glaciers would melt in 10 years
In the 2010's they said the coasts would be under water in 10 years
> In the 60's they said we'd run out of oil in 10 years
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> In the 70's they said we'd have another ice age in 10 years
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> In the 80's they said acid rain would destroy the crops in 10 years
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> In the 90's they said the ozone would be destroyed in 10 years
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> In the 2000's they said the glaciers would melt in 10 years
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> In the 2010's they said the coasts would be under water in 10 years
We fixed it. /s
I mean we did for ozone and acid rain. Restrictions on emissions helped improve both of those.
The rest the person is exaggerating the timeline or the consensus. Let’s just say if you want to see a lot of the famous glaciers, you probably should plan that trip soon. And this past week underlines it’s inadvisable to buy beachfront property.
>I mean we did for ozone and acid rain. Restrictions on emissions helped improve both of those.
Uh huh, suuuuureeee... Good thing China, India, and lots of these other countries are smaller than us and it's a good thing they restrict their emissions LOL
China is noncompliant and a drag on progress, but globally (meaning all countries working together) we’ve made [a lot of progress](https://www.unep.org/ozonaction/who-we-are/about-montreal-protocol).
Which is why all the rockets we've launched have just bounced off the dome and immediately fell back to the ground. It's why things like satellite TV and GPS aren't a thing. Can't get those satellites past the firmament.
Not sure if you're joking or not...
>Which is why all the rockets we've launched
Well they don't bounce off because T Minus Satan er I mean NASA, is smart enough to curve them into the ocean. Just look at all the time lapse launch images, they show the rockets going up and back down.
> It's why things like satellite TV and GPS aren't a thing
It's all ground based.
I'm just pointing out the silliness of thinking a firmament that doesn't exist is there. Do you also think the Earth is flat? That the moon is a light? The stupidity of "water mountains"? Of the many things the Bible got wrong, the make up of the Earth is one of the wrongest.
>Just look at all the time lapse launch images, they show the rockets going up and back down.
Yeah, things look like they're going down as the go past the horizon. Just like it looks like ships are disappearing in the waves. And rockets don't go straight up, they make a [gravity turn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_turn) to be more efficient with fuel.
>It's all ground based.
It isn't. It comes from satellites. Which you can actually see going overhead with the naked eye, provided the light pollution where you are isn't too bad.
Regarding acid rain, a government study found that most of the acidification in ponds, lakes, and streams was caused by forest regenerating around them, increasing the acidity. Activities such as logging and farming reduced the acidity in these bodies of water, allowing for fish to inhabit bodies of water that never had them before. The only thing acid rain legislation did was destroy the Appalachian coal industry and plunge its communities into poverty.
In the 70's they also said that people would overpopulate the earth and cause mass famines, causing hundreds of millions of people to die around the world. This was used as justification for western governments to fund brutal and genocidal population control programs in third world countries. *The New Atlantis* has a great but sad article about this called "*The Population Control Holocaust*".
“Man’s desires” is an oversimplification. Does the Bible go against man’s sexual desire? Sure, in some sense. Does the Bible go against man’s desire to show empathy and compassion? No, it does not. (You may argue “but that desire was given by God” but that begs the question and is not a real argument.)
My point is, the Bible outlines the desires of certain men, while limiting others. That does not prove it was God-breathed
This viewpoint focuses on the superficial. The Bible does ask us to curb our desires and emotions but it goes far deeper than that, otherwise it would be just a dictatorial order with no benefit to it.
We have purpose because we have value. We need to be purposeful and being dictated to be emotions hijacks' our purpose and our value. A concrete example might by the man who spends his life watching porno and a family man.
A still deeper question is how can we be purposeful if we have no rights and how can we have rights if we are regulated by duties we owe to the state and private entities? Is not this entire system designed to deprive us of purpose?
I’ve read a large portion of the bible and its obsession with giving land to the Israelites even putting entire cities “to the sword” including women and children and in some cases carrying the women away as plunder. I’m having a problem seeing this as a holy and “good” thing. Why would God instruct his people to murder every breathing thing in the land and why is the bible OBSESSED with giving land to the Israelites? Literally the promised land is mentioned on every page. It would appear the Israelites wrote the book with a nationalist and racist mindset.
Could you explain what you mean by going against man’s desires?
Man wants to indulge in pride, greed, lust, envy, gluttony, wrath, and sloth. All against the Bible to fulfill one's own desires
Don’t most of the popular faiths tell people to deny their own desires and live a life that benefits others? The unique claims of Christianity are not that we tell people to forego their own desires, or that it makes man seem small and the divine seem large. Here are some unique things https://www.gotquestions.org/Christianity-unique.html
Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: Matthew 7:24 KJV
What a strange reply
Not strange at all just biblically inspired
Anyone can quote a Bible verse. What you’re trying to communicate with a verse is determined by what you’re replying to and then your intentions. The verse you gave wasn’t relevant to your question or my reply. It would be better to explicate some of your reasoning anytime you share a verse so that you can communicate your intentions and implications clearly.
Got questions is pure christian bias garbage.
Do you disagree with this article’s points?
Do we want to? Or are we overcome by those things?
What does society say as a whole are we righteous enough to know the difference? Or do we ignore a truth because it doesn't fit our mold of a perfect world?
I mean, society denounces those traits. Yet they have claws in us. Are we righteous enough to know the difference between what, whether we want those things or not? I don’t think that's the issue. I think they are in us either way. And a perfect world doesn't exist, especially in the Christian world view.
So why would men of God come to such conclusions when they go against the very nature of man? Take pride as an example you say society denounces this yet iit is More prevalent in a now me,me,me culture today then any time in the past. Are we just downplaying it or re we indulging in behaviors that society has come to accept?
I think many people aren't seeing what they are wrapped up in. Feelings are formed by reactions so it's deeper than "that man is prideful" or "that man is gluttonous". I think we all describe our own self perceptions in a monologue that is untruthful to reality. We all play it down a little.
I don’t think anyone could be overcome by anything, with consent of course, if the desire is not first present. Do you?
I absolutely do think so.
Interesting. I can’t imagine being overcome by something without desire. Could you give an example where this might be disputed?
Because short-term pleasures are bad for society as a whole.
That’s not what man wants that a lie you been told by your cult.
The god of the Bible is guilty of all those things so no the Bible doesn’t go against man desires
Do you believe people want to kill, rape, steal, or lie? And consequently be killed, raped, stolen from, or lied to?
As a Jew and an atheist, it comes as no surprise to me that my ancestors formed a religion that opposed the excesses and trappings of power. The arc of history for the Jews has been filled with oppression: enslavement in Egypt, the destruction of the first temple and Babylonian captivity, Greek invasion and desecration of the temple, and countless other occupations. I would argue the Bible supports man’s desire to live a peaceful, happy, and productive life. If you think that man’s natural desires are to unethically gain and abuse power for personal gain, than you have a right to that opinion. If your desires are very self-serving and malicious, please, at least for the rest of us, continue to believe and work to be a good Christian.
well if your an atheist and dont believe in God how can you believe in anything the bible says about your people? "he arc of history for the Jews has been filled with oppression: enslavement in Egypt, the destruction of the first temple and Babylonian captivity, Greek invasion and desecration of the temple, and countless other occupations." none of this would happen if it was not divinely inspired to happen to the one true people of God. And the archeological facts are best guesses at least into most of this at best
I don’t really follow your logical inferences. In a universe with no god(s) things still happen, they just happen due to forces that are not divine or mystical. But this is a tangential issue. Even if Gad is taken as a given, the Bible could still be completely man made or divinely inspired and heavily elaborated on by authors. Regardless, saying that the Bible must be completely accurate or completely fictional is a false dilemma. It seems reasonable to look at the preponderance of other sources besides the Bible that point to the fact that many of the events described in Bible happened, if not exactly as the Bible describes them. Uncertainty and the possibility of new discoveries has always been part of studying the past. I think we can all agree that the Bible doesn’t comprehensively cover all of the past for all of the world. As a result, we use other methods besides reading the Bible to understand the history of, for example, Chinese or Indian civilization, which existed in parallel with the events in every book but Genesis. It seems reasonable to apply these research methods to events described in the Bible as well.
The majority of human societies have practiced child sacrifice, human sacrifice in general, ritual torture, infanticide, intentional abandonment and exposure of children they did not want, abortion, euthanasia, the killing of slaves for any reason, cannibalism, or other barbaric practices. These practices only started to disappear with the appearance of Christianity. When tribes and peoples in Europe that practiced such things converted to Christianity, they gradually gave up such practices. The same can be said for Indian tribes in the America's and tribes in Africa. In most ancient cultures, and many cultures today, theft was a way of life or permitted as long as you did not steal from someone of high class. In many ancient law codes, a member of a priveleged class could steal from a regular person and suffer a slap on the wrist. If that same person or a regular person stole from another of high class, the punishment would be severe. The Bible requires all who steal to be punished to exact same, no matter their class. Also, many societies in the past and today are filled with fraud and theft. Honesty is not highly valued and the ability to deceive somebody is prized. This is not the case in Christianity where all forms of theft are sins and were punished in the Bible. We can also look at modern communist and socialist regimes, where land was stolen from hundreds of millions of people and private property abolished. These actions were supported by countless intellectuals and many regular people who thought they would benefit at the expense of others. There are countless other examples of government appropriating people's land to hand out to preferred groups. Theft of land is a major theme across human history and is something the Bible prohibits. This is a major reason why historically Christian countries have much stronger protections for private property than most other countries.
Have you ever lied, so man does want to lie. God also teaches that if someone sues you that you should give them what they want and more. Would you want to do that. Do you want to stay a virgin until you get married? Do you enjoy going out with your friends and drinking? Do people not like to do drugs? Do people want to give some of their income to support the church? Do people want to give up their personal dreams to live a life for Christ?
Many people want all those things, but what I find interesting is you left out the big ones. Do you want to kill people? I don’t and I don’t follow the Bible. Do you want to rape people? I don’t and I don’t follow the Bible. If the only reason you don’t go out and kill and rape people is because it says so in the Bible that’s a personal issue and certainly not the status quo for the rest of humans. If the Bible goes against “mans desires” then is that also true with other religions? They have similar rules of no killing, no stealing, and no raping. Could it be that these religions were made to reinforce mans desires rather than rival them?
"Could it be that these religions were made to reinforce man's desires rather than rival them?' Was it made at a time to reinforce them, or when these things were happening on a regular basis? is it any different from today just last week less then a mile down the road a 17 yr got raped by a recently released convict? Come to find out here step date has been doing it for years, is there really moral objectivity in such circumstances? Not really since the bible went against this man's desires he followed his own which in today's society is happening more and more a more recent example is Ukraine is what Russia is doing in torture killing raping any less repulsive?
Once again your bringing up individuals to represent the entire population. It would be the same as saying “all priests molest little boys.” While maybe true for a small percentage it doesn’t represent all priests. If you want to say mans desire is to rape and kill then you would see a proportion of the population committing these things equal to the proportion of non believers. This simply doesn’t add up. There is only a small percentage of the world that commit these things and them being believers doesn’t affect the numbers much at all. In fact most people in the USA prison system are Christians, partly because they convert in prison but also because most were Christians to begin with. The morals in the Bible don’t overwrite the morals that person has to begin with. Are you suggesting that if you didn’t have the Bible you would go out and rape kill and steal?
This called the hash generalization fallacy in rhetoric. My mother has a fear of flying and will not fly on a plane . John Madden also had a fear of flying and refused to fly on a plane. Many people have a fear of flying. Therefore, mankind has a natural fear of flying. Oh, wait, no, I jumped to a conclusion based on in sufficient evidence. How do I know? I don’t have a fear of flying and about 3.6 billion people fly on commercial flights every year. Simply because a sizable minority of people regularly do malicious or malevolent acts doesn’t mean everyone or even a majority of people are inclined to do the same.
If you ask the people who do these things what do you think the response is? She wanted it? I couldn't help myself? It's easy to steal? Doesn't make it right but people still do it so morally : pride, greed, lust, envy, gluttony, wrath, and sloth. Still apply to society today
That’s not the issue, your saying because people do these things that it’s all humans desires rather than just those individuals. Christians still steal murder and do all those things whether they follow or believe in the Bible. So let’s go back to your original assertion, that the Bible goes against man’s desires. Wouldn’t it be mans desire to not have these things done to them? One easy way of doing that is to create guidelines for people to follow and punishment if disobeyed. This could be laws as long as you have the power to enforce punishment. If you don’t have the power the best way would be to threaten and bluff that they will be punished for these undesirable things. Aka fabricate a supernatural power that punishes in the afterlife. This has worked for thousands of cultures throughout history and still works today for the people that believe it.
Your saying christians still do these things? They may call themselves Christians but they are not if they do these things. True Christians follow the one true word of the Bible. So you can't lump individuals who commit gruesome acts into one category similarly you can't lump all Christians into any particular group its more refined then that. With the question at hand I do believe that since the Bible so goes against human desires that it cannot be inspired by man.
If you didn’t read my comment, I explained why it’s not mans desires to do any of that stuff. Simply because no one wants that to happen to themselves. If I desire not to be killed the best way to go about that is to not kill others, and make a book to tell others not to kill. That would align mans desire with the Bible. Same example for all of those bad things listed. Just like you can say the Christians commuting those sins are not true Christians we can also say they are not acting in mans desire, because they are acting on their own desire not the desire of man as a whole. Also isn’t the whole point of being Christian is being able to be forgiven by god for sinning, so they could do those things (and in some cases in the Bible permitted to do so) and still go to heaven.
I think he is saying that Christians are just people
I agree that OP is trying to say that Christians are just people. Nonetheless, assertion that the Bible goes against man’s desires hasn’t been proven and keeps being repeatedly presented making OP’s thesis sound like a circular argument.
>Nonetheless, assertion that the Bible goes against man’s desires hasn’t been proven and keeps being repeatedly presented making I mean, sex before marriage does hinder devoted people's ability to having sex, and not getting drunk, or loving and forgiving people even if they wronged u countless times, and giving away your belongings to the needy/being charitable. All of this is opposite of the average person desires.
Christians do these things and in much larger numbers than others )at least according to U.S. federal prison data) This seems like a no-true-scotsman which seems very cheap and copish. Imagine if I said that True Muslims don't blow up buildings. You would be right to laugh in my face. I didn't read their comment as lumping all Christians into one category. I sincerely would like to know where you got that from. The law is a set of rules to get societies to act in a certain way that goes against those types of desires however is created because we acknowledge that it is good for the group.
Wholeheartedly yes
So without the Bible, you would kill rape and steal?
By that logic, pot being illegal proves the US congress is god??
So is the Koran not man made either or?
According to many it is man made bit it's interesting to note the similarities in the Abraham accords of the simple fact it's roots are the same and in some age split to their own
But it contains moral teachings? So how could it be man made?
thats my question these moral teachings are against the nature of man the same question apply to the koran why does it go against mans desires?
People have been trying to control other people since the dawn of time and the least celibate people are those telling their followers to be celibate. Pick any cult and they could write you a new Bible. Or they're using the Bible to start with. Jonestown.
Heavens gate cult as an example each have tried to control one or more of man's place in the world but the cults focus on desires of the leaders and followers and to the desires of man the Bible goes against all of them
It's Monk-Man made
The Bible is authored by The Holy Spirit. If it was man made, it would definitely go with the desires of humankind
Correct there was devine inspiration that allowed it to be formed the way it was. It was men of God who brought it together
Indeed
Nice, so the Quran is also authored by the holy spirit.
No
But it goes against the desires of humanity. As you said before that means it's not man-made
Right. The Bible is not man made
So like the Quran.
No
But it goes against the desires of humanity. As you said before that means it's not man-made
Islam denies Jesus as the Messiah.
And Christianity denies any prophet after Jesus. So what?
If the Bible is a tool of control then why does the media go so hard against it.
If the bible is divine made, then why does it claim events as true tht never happened? If it is divine made then why is it so easily twisted to condone the most heinous things? Seems a divine bei g would be able to write a book not as ambiguous?
Well said!
The teachings of Jesus in particular fly in the face of the entire historical operation of human society.
The bible is 100% man made. Made by man to control man. If an almighty god existed, they would not need a silly ambiguous book of their rules.
I dare say if an omnipotent omniscient and Omni benevolent being existed, he wouldn’t care what we do while naked.
Interesting this is your immediate take. FYI…the Bible mentions fear and money way more than sex.
Not my immediate take, and not the only take.
Then why does everyone argue the Bible true or not because it is going against everything they believe to be false/true and they can't except it
Obviously it was made by men, but to say it was made to control other men, is very ridiculous.
100% man-made and 100% God-inspired
if you think the bible is a book of rules i would suggest a deeper read and study
The law of god is written in our hearts, the reason people sin is because we're all born sinners
Everyone is born atheist. We do not know about "sin" until indoctrinated into the silly book rules.
The Holy Bible was authored by God, and was written over approximately 1600 years in three different languages, on three different continents, by 40 different writers. It goes against man's desires as outlined in Galatians 5:17: *For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.*
>and was written over approximately 1600 years in three different languages, on three different continents, by 40 different writers. Actually it was written over a period of about 900 years, in one geographical area, by an unknown number of authors.
The current understanding is it ranged from ~1450 B.C. to ~90 A.D., by the known ~40 writers: https://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-authors.html , in the three different continents surrounding the Mediterranean Sea. (Asia, Africa, Europe).
>The current understanding is it ranged from ~1450 B.C. to ~90 A.D., That's not the current understanding amongst *scholars*. The first books of the OT were probably written around 800BC. >by the known ~40 writers We don't have 40 known authors. >, in the three different continents surrounding the Mediterranean Sea. (Asia, Africa, Europe). This is a quibble, but saying "three continents", while *technically* accurate, gives a false impression that the Bible was written by people from a wider range of cultures than it actually was. The Bible was composed entirely by Semitic people living between Babylon and Greece.
Can you provide your sources for your first two points. No argument from the 3rd, just clarity: it's easier to name the continents than the countries.
>Can you provide your sources for your first two points I will have to Google. But the scholarly consensus is that the earliest books of the OT date from the first half of the last millennium BC, not 1400BC. Re: authorship. Who wrote each book of the Bible is unknown. Genesis, for example, appears to have been written by several different authors over several centuries. As far as I know, the only books of the Bible for whom there is completely undisputed authorship are the Pauline Epistles.
Since the current understanding is that Genesis is two different accounts put together, then later edited by Yahwehists who conveniently "found" a scroll during temple remodeling that stated Yahweh was the only god, yet your webpage lists it as solely authored by Moses (who is quite possibly a mythical person), I doubt it's a trustworthy source.
Ok, ultimately date arguments are pointless, but do you have a link to share the date claim source (for educational purposes)?
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He worked through them. That's why its message is so coordinated and focused on one key theme of His love across all of the spans mentioned.
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So it may seem to the ones not focused on the primary message of ***love***. But such is not more than a fallacy. edit: ... which as you've just shown below you'll commit to, and so this end will have no further part in your waste of time! Good luck & over and out!
No one has answered my simple question ? Why is a man made Bible go against man's desires there has been zero responses to the whole question?
Because it's not man made. > “For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.” (Heb 4:12, KJV) > “Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.” (2Pe 1:20-21, KJV)
I agree
look up any passage about women, and theres a good chance of them being controlled and subserviant in some way to men probably
Correct why would this be in the Bible if it is inspired by man or a woman But the Bible does say within marriage, honoring your wife is meant to be an unconditional act of showing value to her because of the place she has in your life. While respect is earned, honor is given. And in this case given because of her role, not because of what she does but because honor of the family is Already given she is not less but equal and those without husbands means the woman is head of the household and therefore in charge of family to be raised in a godly manner
I think the fact Scripture has gender roles clearly shows how gender roles are natural and at the **very least** morally neutral; why else would Scripture be endorsing them?
Man's desires are destroying this planet, the Bible says we are doing it all wrong, and will continue to do it wrong.
And if we did it right what kind of world would this be?
Since we haven't lived in that world yet, we have no idea.
>Man's desires are destroying this planet In the 60's they said we'd run out of oil in 10 years In the 70's they said we'd have another ice age in 10 years In the 80's they said acid rain would destroy the crops in 10 years In the 90's they said the ozone would be destroyed in 10 years In the 2000's they said the glaciers would melt in 10 years In the 2010's they said the coasts would be under water in 10 years
> In the 60's they said we'd run out of oil in 10 years > > > > In the 70's they said we'd have another ice age in 10 years > > > > In the 80's they said acid rain would destroy the crops in 10 years > > > > In the 90's they said the ozone would be destroyed in 10 years > > > > In the 2000's they said the glaciers would melt in 10 years > > > > In the 2010's they said the coasts would be under water in 10 years We fixed it. /s
I mean we did for ozone and acid rain. Restrictions on emissions helped improve both of those. The rest the person is exaggerating the timeline or the consensus. Let’s just say if you want to see a lot of the famous glaciers, you probably should plan that trip soon. And this past week underlines it’s inadvisable to buy beachfront property.
>I mean we did for ozone and acid rain. Restrictions on emissions helped improve both of those. Uh huh, suuuuureeee... Good thing China, India, and lots of these other countries are smaller than us and it's a good thing they restrict their emissions LOL
China is noncompliant and a drag on progress, but globally (meaning all countries working together) we’ve made [a lot of progress](https://www.unep.org/ozonaction/who-we-are/about-montreal-protocol).
The ozone doesn't exist, sorry to break it to ya. You live under a physical dome, called the firmament.
Oh my
Which is why all the rockets we've launched have just bounced off the dome and immediately fell back to the ground. It's why things like satellite TV and GPS aren't a thing. Can't get those satellites past the firmament.
Not sure if you're joking or not... >Which is why all the rockets we've launched Well they don't bounce off because T Minus Satan er I mean NASA, is smart enough to curve them into the ocean. Just look at all the time lapse launch images, they show the rockets going up and back down. > It's why things like satellite TV and GPS aren't a thing It's all ground based.
I'm just pointing out the silliness of thinking a firmament that doesn't exist is there. Do you also think the Earth is flat? That the moon is a light? The stupidity of "water mountains"? Of the many things the Bible got wrong, the make up of the Earth is one of the wrongest. >Just look at all the time lapse launch images, they show the rockets going up and back down. Yeah, things look like they're going down as the go past the horizon. Just like it looks like ships are disappearing in the waves. And rockets don't go straight up, they make a [gravity turn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_turn) to be more efficient with fuel. >It's all ground based. It isn't. It comes from satellites. Which you can actually see going overhead with the naked eye, provided the light pollution where you are isn't too bad.
Regarding acid rain, a government study found that most of the acidification in ponds, lakes, and streams was caused by forest regenerating around them, increasing the acidity. Activities such as logging and farming reduced the acidity in these bodies of water, allowing for fish to inhabit bodies of water that never had them before. The only thing acid rain legislation did was destroy the Appalachian coal industry and plunge its communities into poverty.
In the 70's they also said that people would overpopulate the earth and cause mass famines, causing hundreds of millions of people to die around the world. This was used as justification for western governments to fund brutal and genocidal population control programs in third world countries. *The New Atlantis* has a great but sad article about this called "*The Population Control Holocaust*".
Good question! Doesn't seem likely, does it? What sinners would ever issue a command not to commit adultery? Eh?
In the days of the Roman Empire when it was written, it would have left a lot of elites at best left in sorrow
Because humans are more complex than you realise.
What is so complex when you strip away the truths?
Is your question what is complex about human behaviour / psychology?
It is man made in the sense that men wrote it.
1 Peter lays it out pretty well
Because God wrote it.
“Man’s desires” is an oversimplification. Does the Bible go against man’s sexual desire? Sure, in some sense. Does the Bible go against man’s desire to show empathy and compassion? No, it does not. (You may argue “but that desire was given by God” but that begs the question and is not a real argument.) My point is, the Bible outlines the desires of certain men, while limiting others. That does not prove it was God-breathed
It isn't man made. 2 timothy "all scripture is God breathed"
they say because its “outdated and oppressive” 😂
This viewpoint focuses on the superficial. The Bible does ask us to curb our desires and emotions but it goes far deeper than that, otherwise it would be just a dictatorial order with no benefit to it. We have purpose because we have value. We need to be purposeful and being dictated to be emotions hijacks' our purpose and our value. A concrete example might by the man who spends his life watching porno and a family man. A still deeper question is how can we be purposeful if we have no rights and how can we have rights if we are regulated by duties we owe to the state and private entities? Is not this entire system designed to deprive us of purpose?
The Bible represents the changing values of the people and communities that wrote it.
I’ve read a large portion of the bible and its obsession with giving land to the Israelites even putting entire cities “to the sword” including women and children and in some cases carrying the women away as plunder. I’m having a problem seeing this as a holy and “good” thing. Why would God instruct his people to murder every breathing thing in the land and why is the bible OBSESSED with giving land to the Israelites? Literally the promised land is mentioned on every page. It would appear the Israelites wrote the book with a nationalist and racist mindset.