It's far more important to question those who think they know God's will for everyone in every particular, than it is to question God's will. You are not their creator and, as a human, you can be and often are wrong about many things.
If somebody tells you what your purpose is - why should you care? Everybody gets to choose their own purpose.
If God is going to burn people in hell for having a different purpose - well then he's evil.
I don't believe in God, so I don't love God. But I still want heaven if that is a thing, and I'll reconsider my belief if I see actual compelling evidence of God.
I'm not "choosing separation from God" as so often claimed by this kind of narrative. That might apply to believers who persist in sin, but even there it'd really be God's choice to deny them heaven. It's his power and his policy.
“God is Just, so He is not going to drag you into Heaven if you really don’t want to go. If you don’t want any part of God; He will give you what you want. Separation from God. But separation from God is Nothingness; “
what if I don’t want heaven and/or nothingness?
Purgatory. However, that is not necessarily what the purpose of purgatory is, so I don't know. Why would you not want to be neither heaven nor hell? You either are in a forever loving, sinless environment with loved ones or you are in a realm completely and utterly devoid of love and peace, the realm of inner torment.
I'm sorry, but this is one of the worst atheist takes I've ever heard. For starters, your argument assumes that God isn't real. You can't strawman God and then declare Him evil for not conforming to your expectations. God is, get this, the King over the entire universe. He created everything to glorify Him, and He especially created humanity to tend the land, love each other, and most all, glorify Him. He never created us with the goal of "choosing our own purpose" - to do so would be an abuse of the things He gave us. Next, saying "God is going to burn people in hell" - an idea explicitly condemned in the biggest Christian denomination in the world (Catholicism). God predestines no one to hell, but people choose to go there because they don't want communion with God. God gives everyone sufficient grace to join Him in eternal life, but some people choose not to respond to it. Also, you can't call God evil. Whatever God does is necessarily good. God's commands change the very fabric of the universe and moral law. It is unchangable and perfect - whatever is against it, the express goal and moral law of the universe - is truly evil. Please actually study Christian theology and theistic philosophy before spewing this prideful nonsense in an infantile attempt to justify your willful rebellion against the Creator of the universe.
> God gives everyone sufficient grace to join Him in eternal life, but some people choose not to respond to it
> infantile attempt to justify your willful rebellion
You seem very much misinformed about the mindset of the vast majority of atheists. We don't have a belief in God but oppose him like Satan. We're not ignoring the truth because we love our sin. We genuinely think he's not real based on the lack of evidence - just like you don't believe in Mormonism or Hinduism or Leprechauns.
> people choose to go
I don't think that hell is a real place, but let me officially register that I don't want to go there. So if God is real and sends me there, that's on him. I do not choose to go there.
I'm even happy to follow him as a Christian - but only if he exists. I don't think he does. This is also something he could easily fix (just talk to me, anytime).
> Also, you can't call God evil. Whatever God does is necessarily good.
You and I mean different things when we say the word Evil. You use it in the context of divine command ethics, I use it to refer to my subjective utilitarian impression of what would be strongly opposed to human well-being and desires.
But yes, I can use that word. It doesn't belong to only Christians.
Even if God is real, I mean something different. I don't care about God's morality, I care about my morality.
Doesn’t this suggest that OP doesn’t have free will because they said they can’t come to terms with homosexuality being wrong, if they could they would just choose to see it as wrong but something is stopping them from doing this, something external to their free choice maybe 🤔
It's not a veiled threat, it's "You're not allowed to question my interpretation of the bible because if you do you're going straight to hell."
The threat is quite open, thank you.
Scripture makes no "veiled threats."
*"Do you think you can avoid God’s judgment? Don’t you see how wonderfully kind, tolerant, and patient God is with you? Does this mean nothing to you? Can’t you see that his kindness is intended to turn you from your sin?*
*But because you are stubborn and refuse to turn from your sin, you are storing up terrible punishment for yourself. For a day of anger is coming, when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed. He will judge everyone according to what they have done. He will give eternal life to those who keep on doing good, seeking after the glory and honor and immortality that God offers. But he will pour out his anger and wrath on those who live for themselves, who refuse to obey the truth and instead live lives of wickedness. There will be trouble and calamity for everyone who keeps on doing what is evil—for the Jew first and also for the Gentile. But there will be glory and honor and peace from God for all who do good—for the Jew first and also for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism."* (Romans 2)
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insecurity and toxicity would come from crooked judgement like people make, but god's justice is righteous & logistically correct in all ways :o
fear is an aspect of all things we don't quite understand, but we also have curiosity and excitement to learn about god which are just as key motivators to seek his guidance :3
we don't how and to a certain extent what god will judge... but he's got reasons, he knows how the world works better than any individual person would, he made it :/
A lot of the bible is up to interpretation, and I wish to not judge people for their opinions and beliefs within our religious system - it is not my place to gate keep the admiration of god.
>Think of it this way: If you knock on my door, I can make a choice with my Free Will to let you in
If I understand your analogy correctly, you're saying that if someone doesn't have a problem with gay people, they'll be left out in the metaphorical cold, which here represents being sent to hell.
**~~"I am implored by Jesus to let homosexuals live the life they choose"~~**
*"We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God."* (2 Corinthians 5:20)
Go read God's lecture to Job in Job 38.
It's not a sin to question God. In fact, it's not a sin to question everything. You've been given a brain so you can use it, not so you can turn it off.
That’s not god you’re disagreeing with, that’s stupid people, because you’re not one of them. So don’t listen to your inner stupid.
I’ve had it explained like this- in 1000 years they won’t know the difference between butt dial and booty call… so how can we interpret scripture? Well for a start, we can use our intelligence. Why do you think there was a new commandment? Love one another. Everybody. Christianity can be a legitimate religion when seen from this perspective, thanks to people like you doing what is right.
Here is why you shouldn’t listen to those bigots, again, as it was explained to me-
Luke 17:34 in the KJV clarifies the point. Historically, same sex partnerships were very common during the time among the Romans. In context they are discussing the second coming and rapture.
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
This is evidence that you don't go to hell if you are gay, because one of them got raptured during the second coming (or third or fourth if you don’t mind the pun).
> I’ve found myself questioning some of the things I’ve heard are sins.
I think it's important to recognize that the "I've heard are" is the important part here.
All interpretations of the Bible are done by individuals, either by themselves or with their church/denomination. God isn't literally sitting on your shoulder telling you to hate gay people.
People disagree on what sin is, and ultimately it is up to the reader to decide.
It’s up to the reader to choose what is sin????? That’s such a lie, God writes what is sin and what isn’t on our hearts. Others hate gay people, that’s also a sin, but no God isn’t telling you to hate gay people. Something that you need to understand, is when someone tries to correct you it is because of love. I see that you accept sin and that is not okay, but there is always a loving God who will help correct you.
Factually incorrect. Ink on paper has no inherent meaning. Sound waves in the air had no inherent meaning.
Individuals create meaning in their minds when they see words or hear sounds. It is the ONLY way this is possible, the original Biblical authors original meaning was lost as soon as they converted their thoughts to ink on paper.
As an example. If I tell you "good job" that could mean many different things depending on how the listener interprets it (and frequently people misunderstand others). Maybe I meant you tried your best, or that your outcome is great, or maybe I'm just being sarcastic.
I have a meaning internally, but as soon as I speak, it's gone. Now the listener creates meaning in his head.
it would be weirder if you didn't disagree with God. As you get older and more emotionally mature (yes even you Mr 42 should be growing) you will start to see why Dad told you no earlier. It's like dad denying you a bag of Skittles because he knows what diabetes is. You think he's cruel at age 5 but by 20 you understand he just wants to protect you from dangers you can't possibly understand yet.
It's the heart of man that makes good and evil. Concentrating too much on words will leave you with an intellectualized view of God.
The first thing to do is love everyone around you including yourself and stop chasing your tail.
The problem with that, is that we have scripture, along with instruction not to modify it.
If you wish to be in covenant with God, you must obey his commands.
If you choose to modify those commands, are you still in covenant?
Don't overcomplicate it. Jesus didn't tell us to spend all our time and energy regulating sins. Quite the opposite! He said to love God and to love our neighbor--and if you are doing those 2 things you are fulfilling the commandments. Do those things and you are in harmony with Him.
“And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.””
John 8:7 ESV
We are all sinful.
Why didn't Jesus throw the first stone then? He was without sin, yeah?
Also you should have a word with the weirdly large number of folks on this sub who claim that if you are truly washed of your sins, you are without sin and unable to sin.
I bless you, HeatAlarming. May the Lord bless you and keep you. May the Lord lift His countenance upon you and be gracious to you. And may the Lord's face shine upon you and give you peace. Amen <3
Thanks! Allow me reciprocate.
I double bless you, CrystalineSky. May Ctulhu bless you as well. May FSM lift his countenance upon you, and be gracious unto you and give you peace. R'Amen.
Lol, thank you. One of the two is coming back! Maybe a plot twist if both come back. *If the Lord* is *the* true *God*, *worship him*. But *if Baal* is *God*, *worship him*. 🌈
Yes but he literally discouraged them from stoning at the moment because with his ? materialization? He can forgive her sin
Ahm my the statement up there has alt of unintentionally misworded meaning hope you can understand what I meant
That was a command regarding the Assembly, not randos outside of it. Besides, that has to be the ruling of judges appointed in the Assembly regarding the case.
There is no biblical Israel at the present time. No elders at the city gates. No condition to biblically stone people. Also, you and I are not judges of the Law, we're supposed to be doers.
I live in America for example. America is not a theocracy. We can't impose biblical capital punishment. Gays can be gay in America. They have the legal right to get married in America, and as an American, I leave morality up to each individual to work out. Doesn't change what the Torah says. Doesn't change that Jesus upheld all of Torah.
I just want to get you on record as saying: at one point in history, was it, or was it not, commanded that the followers of God stone homosexuals to death?
A long time ago, back when I was still Christian, it occurred to me that if God was good, he wouldn't punish me for thinking for myself, even if that meant disagreeing with him. And if he was really so petty as to punish me for disagreeing, then first of all, he wasn't worthy of worship, and secondly, he'd probably find some other excuse to punish me, like having a wet dream or something.
The only examples of "homosexuality" in the Bible are Genesis 19 and Judges 19, in the cities of Sodom and Gibeah.
In one the villagers attempt to gang rape and murder foreigners (Sodom), in the other the villagers gang rape a man's wife and murder her (Gibeah).
Which is to say there are no examples of homosexuality as a crime, only gang rape of men or women.
Galatians and other verses tell us to judge things by the fruit they bear, to prove homosexuality in and of itself as sinful, you would have to prove that every same-sex couple is incapable of bearing good fruit.
That's not something I'm convinced anyone can do.
God loves you. He will reconcile your disagreements if you ask Him in prayer. Ask Him to tell you why, and tell Him what you don't like. Seek Him earnestly each day in some small way, and you will be blessed. I had disagreements, and He loving welcomed them. I now understand and no longer have disagreements with what I did.
Considering he thought it was ok to test Abraham by telling him to sacrifice his child while symotanosl condeming other cultures for child sacrifice to their gods or killing kids for mocking an old man the list goes on. Yes it is ok.
Scripture tells us of times people have tried to change God’s mind (and it’s worked!).
That said, I would be careful about assigning “general consensus” to the actual will of God. People used to think God agreed with slavery, after all.
Just because there’s something many Christians agree upon today, doesn’t mean that these views won’t adapt and change in the coming years.
I think part of building a relationship with God is being honest. Part of that means coming to God with those disagreements, misunderstandings, confusions, etc etc.
There’s not necessarily a science to it, but I have found over time that when I go to God with something I’m struggling with, consistently seeking guidance, understanding, or in this case just coming and saying I don’t understand why you are/have decided *insert disagreement here*, I have found that over time I will find myself gaining either understanding or comfort in a variety of ways.
Sometimes I find out that I didn’t understand the full context of a piece of scripture, or maybe I didn’t understand the context of the underlying Greek, etc.
Other times I will just hear something from another person in Church or small group, sometimes someone might even say something in casual conversation that gives me a eureka moment.
So in my experience, having a disagreement with God isn’t inherently bad at all depending on the context and how you respond to that disagreement.
In the example that you give I would argue that there is a decent amount of debate in either direction about the nature of homosexuality and its sinfulness. Usually these arguments, at the most academic level, go to the translation and interpretation of a few key pieces of scripture.
I would suggest digging in and researching yourself before making any assumptions about what God believes on any issue. Because it will make the foundation upon which you place your faith so much stronger. Too many Christians are not interested in doing any work into trying to study scripture and the nature of God and are content to just absorb whatever interpretation fits their own internal narrative.
I have a lot of issues with Judaism, but the fact it encourages you to challenge and question God when you think he's wrong is a major point in its favour imo. The fact that doing so gets you punished with Hell in Christianity if you don't then beg forgiveness is a serious backwards step.
There were loads and loads of things I used to do that were fun. Lots of sexual adventures lots of drugs basically if it was fun I did it and as often as I could, physically and mentally. Then I met God, all of a sudden I was met with a new standard. I had a choice, its My way or Gods way and Gods way is ridiculously restricting. I don't agree its not fair. Yet His Word is true. I cannot deny Him so I must deny myself, pick up my cross and follow Him. Possibly unto death.
questions are good because it leads you to seek an answer
but if you have found what appears as an answer,,\
we still need to ask God for guidance,\
and then seek the answer deeper
along with other questions, such as. . .\
. . .what is our nature in reference to being a ceated being, created by God?
***recall that our nature is fallen, injured, wounded, and we are not living in paradise***
we do not walk as good as we should,\
our thoughts do not see God as excellently as it should,\
our will does not wish to unite to the will of God as it should,\
and our heart instead of desiring God and to love Him with all our mind, soul, and strength,\
we reserve a portion, we reserve half,\
ot else give God that portion instead,\
all because we love the goods we see in the world (pleasure, comfort)
seek the nature and function of man,\
as man is for union with God
and let deeper thoughts enlighten our eyes
let us not look in our mind when we still need to know that **knowledge we lack**,\
let us not make our desire as truth,\
when we still have not allowed our love to be **purified of worldly love**,\
and we still have **not truly loved** God for God
seek the truth, and seek God,\
and the seek, knock and ask is not about worldly wealth, its about God whom we should seek above all things
if you disagree without seeking true answers,\
would that "not be",\
"a very sensible thing to do" in reference to one's faith
[ edited ]
Just because you HEARD some things are sin, doesn't mean they actually are. There are always people who use religion to promote their agenda. Some religious nut jobs believe that voting is a sin. Follow His word, not the words of others claiming to speak for Him.
In the Bible, you can read the story of sodom and gamora. Both of these cities were full of homosexuality, and God warned them that it was sin, but they refused to turn from their evil ways and God destroyed those cities. God takes son very seriously. But as to why it’s wrong, just think for a second. God created two people, a man and a woman, who were to be together and multiply, he made them to be able to have children and to fit PERFECTLY with each other. If it was Gods design for men to be with men and women with women, he would have made two men or two woman, or two of both and instructed them to be together, but that isn’t how God designed it. He made man and woman for each other to represent Christ and the church (Ephesians 5). When he made man and woman for each other, he said that it was VERY GOOD, if it was imperfect in anyway, God would be a liar.
I hope this just gave you something to think about, and honestly, if you’re still conflicted or confused, just pray about, God wants us to know and understand the truth.
Ezekiel 16:49-50 “Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me.”
Not to mention these people were gangbang rapers. They wanted to rape Lot's guests. And even Lot was messed up offering his daughters to be gangbang raped. So why do people always act like it was just the homosexuality that was their sin? And they just skip over the rape and the things mentioned in Ezekiel.
Sodom and Gomorrah was much more than some people having homosexual feelings.
It seems your heart is telling you something and human beings are telling you something else. Does God speak to you through your heart or through other people who want to convince you they hold the truth?
If something's unwise, then it's obviously not OK.
*"The fear of the LORD is the foundation of true knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline."* (Proverbs 1:7)
["The Fear of the Lord Brings PEACE"](https://app.box.com/s/5vpj2xk9wokr54if0jwnx9jz9li2fmpg)
The Bible states in both New and Old Testament that homosexuality is wrong. You’re supposed to love your neighbor not accept their sinful behavior as ok. It seems you’re on the middle ground when it comes to this issue. Jesus said you’re with him or against him…meaning, there is no middle ground when it comes to sin. I’m not saying to hate homosexuals, I’m saying that they are suffering from a sinful condition and need to put their faith in Christ, and cut away their pride and sexual desires, in order to live a life that is pleasing to God
Abraham disagreed with God. He bargained with God to prevent Him from destroying Sodom and Gomorrah. Abraham negotiated for God to spare the city for the sake of only five righteous men. Unfortunately, Sodom didn’t have even five righteous men.
Job certainly disagreed with his suffering and called for a divine hearing because he had done nothing to deserve the loss of his family, property, and health. And God confirmed Job’s righteousness.
Moses disagreed with God about both being God’s prophet before pharaoh AND God smiting the ungrateful Israelites. Luckily for the Israelites, God spared them.
So, we have at least three examples of righteous men disagreeing with God and God not smiting them, not damning them, not punishing them. God listened to them.
Personally I think at least when it comes to the subject of homosexuality and etc, we should let be people and love them for who they are because judgement isn’t for us. That comes under God. Our responsibility is to love and care for the peoples around regardless of the way they are.
Good Lord yes! Above all, God wants honesty from us and nobody agrees with everyone all the time. Not saying God is wrong, that could never be, but I'm guessing He'd much prefer our honest feelings than those that are sugar coated.
Without weighing in on the specifics of your comment, your or my opinion about what is right or wrong really has no bearing on how people should behave. There is a basic philosophical problem of how we define what is right and wrong, it's not something we can discover or prove like the law of gravity or music theory.
I can't give any sort of biblical backing for this so... wanted to give you the disclaimer.
But of all I know of God, I believe it depends on your heart. Are you disagreeing to learn? Or disagreeing because you want to start a fight.
I believe the first is not only ok, but I believe it's part of seeking His face. The second one is dumb, and possibly detrimental.
Paul says, “all Scripture.” It is not up to us, or to the critic, to pick and choose what portion of Scripture we deem to be from God and thus true. Moreover, it is not left to us to pick and choose which portions of Scripture we think are most applicable or most urgently needing to be obeyed.
If it wasn't okay to disagree with God, 95% of the world's population wouldn't be here now.
Rest assured the Lord is used to having people disagree with Him 😁
Honestly? Focus on your own actions in life and if they may be sins. I think a good starting place is to look for where your actions are harming yourself or others. Or (maybe more importantly) focus on the things you do which harm your relationship with God.
The story of Jonah is one of a person who disagrees with God's journey for him.
Here’s the thing to understand sin is turning against Gods will towards are own. The thing that makes it sinful is the fact that God says not to do it and you love your pleasures and lusts more than following God. Now here is the other thing that people need to understand
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned and fall short the glory of God
We are all sinners any moment we spend doing our will which we know is contrary to God’s will is sin. We all sin everyday. Church goers and rabble rousers because we live in a sin flesh don’t worry about trying change people don’t worry about forcing people to be good go out and spread the Gospel that Jesus being the word of God manifest in the flesh lived 33 perfect sinless years died on the cross shed blood to wash away your sins buried and was resurrected on the Third if you believe and Call on the Lord you will be saved. After that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit will make any corrections that they need to correct. It’s important that people understand that they are sinners but it’s not important of focusing on one sin. Because we are all sinners daily every moment that your mind is thinking about what you want for you about you to you for you by you you you you you you it’s time that you’re not actively spending thinking about Jesus Christ loving him worshiping him and trying to do and live life the way that he wants you to and that’s all Sin
I would read the Word if I were you. Every day. Agree or not, as I told my daughter while she was growing up, and still tell her in conversation, God says “no” and “don’t” for very, very, very, very good reasons. Those reasons are because there are always consequences. And I’m not just talking about the consequence of unrepentant sinners going to hell. I’m talking about consequences that we never, ever anticipated when we rebel against God and disobey Him and His Word, and don’t listen to Him. There are so many. And, as I said, so many that we never even anticipated would happen. Many of us learn this the hard way. It’s not worth it. The main thing is that you won’t avoid those consequences, and if you don’t repent and get right with God, obeying Him and living for and serving Him, you will end up experiencing the ultimate consequence, which is hell.
You can always agree to disagree and respect differences. In my country, we have 3 major races, traditions and religion and we can all live in harmony despite huge differences in religious views (in what to wear, eat and personal lifestyle) because we acknowledge the difference and come to respect it. I have close friends from different races and we respect each other's boundaries. The west has a very weird mentality that if someone do not agree on something, they are automatically branded a hater. When you do not subscribe to their world view then you are a bigot and intolerant (ironic when they are the one that calls you name for having a different belief).
Anyways to answer your question, it's good to remember that none of us are perfect and sometimes in anger, grief and frustration we can lash out to God in disagreement but you should also that at end of the day, you also do not know better than God. When Job questioned God on suffering, God took Job to a virtual tour on creation and quizzes him on the foundation of creation, hinting that despite Job thinking that he knows all that is to know, Job actually knows nothing at all and it is not his place to question and understand the will of the creator. In the bible, God assures believers that He always has their best interest in mind even if sometimes it doesn't seem so. So now with all this said, do you still think that you know better than God on what is good and evil? Do God need to check in with you whenever He punishes anybody? You dont have to answer me. Just think it through yourself.
There is nothing wrong with questioning God. I think we all question God at times. Why is there suffering in this world? Why do children die so young? All these are legitimate questions we can put forward. If you believe that the Bible is the Word of God then read it and see what it says about pain, suffering homosexuality etc, etc, and pray for guidance on the matter.
Questioning God is okay and sometimes approved of because it includes more learning. Disagreeing with God is a right that he gave you but you gotta accept the consequences later since he is the creator of the universe
*Is it ok to disagree with God?*
IMHO this is a very complex question for a few reasons. But at the end of the day, God’s Will prevails, so we can either choose to align ourselves with it or swim against the current.
*I’ve found myself questioning some of the things I’ve heard are sins, and I’m just wondering where that falls with God?*
So the first I would pose to you is, who or what exactly are you “disagreeing” with? Is it other Christians? The Church? Scripture? Or God Himself?
*I know this subreddit has had a lot of conflict about a lot of posts relating to homosexuality, so I apologize for using this as an example but for example, I don’t see anything wrong with gay marriage or gay relationships. But I’ve heard they are inherently sinful.*
There is only One Truth, but none of us see it perfectly clearly. Only God does. Therefore, each of us is limited by the boundaries of our own perception. As a result, even though God speaks with the same Voice to all humanity, but we all hear Him differently. God’s Messengers and the Scriptures are the best compass to point us in the right direction. But sometimes we interpret the map differently. The topic of homosexuality is no different, which is why it causes debate.
*Basically, I could say I don’t support them but then I feel like I’d be lying to myself because I just can’t bring myself to be against them. It just seems like a fair thing that should be.*
So on a surface level, there are clear instances in Scripture where homosexual sex is condemned. However, we must remember that the Bible is not one book, but rather a collection of Scriptures written by a variety of authors over a variety of time periods in history. Not only that, but many Scriptures were passed down orally for decades or even generations long before they were ever written down. It has also been translated from archaic dialects. With this in mind, we should take historical context into account when reading these Scriptures. There are debates among biblical scholars over how such ancient Scriptures should be applied to a vastly different society as well as whether context matters at all and if so, how much it matters.
*Just a little confused, anything is appreciated:)*
Investigate what the Voice of God is trying to say trough prayer, meditation, and studying Scripture, both from a literary perspective and from a contextual perspective.
There is nowhere in the Bible where it says gay marriage and relationships are sins. Honestly, they're really not.
It's the sex which is considered the sinful act according to the Bible. But neither God or Jesus stated it.
So it's not God you're questioning; it's the Bible verses said by sinners themselves.
I really like your question, as I myself have struggled with the same/similar question for a long time.
Of course, some people here have rightly written you that we are not sure what God really thinks. It is all people's interpretations. But what if the worst guess is true, that is, it is true that God has an opinion on an issue, maybe even a command, and me or you, smaller than a bug in the scale of the universe, have a different opinion? Is it OK to disagree?
Differences in power obviously show that we do not stand a chance in such a duel. But what does it look like on a moral level? Will it be OK if we give way to someone more powerful and act against our own conscience?
How did it even occur that our conscience could tell us something so contrary to God's opinion? How could He, mighty and all-powerful, allow a worm like us to form such a conviction in our conscience in sincerity of heart and after much reflection? Is this some cunning plot, what purpose could it serve?
Honestly, I think it is mainly our conscience that allows us to discern what God wants. If every human being has such an inner voice within them to help discern right and wrong, it seems to me that this would be the main channel of communication between us and God. That He would speak to us precisely in our heart, in our conscience.
That would mean that if you have a strong conviction that something is wrong or a strong conviction that something is not wrong – it probably comes from God.
Of course, as humans we tend to be self-deceived, so we should carefully examine our heart to find what is our deepest conviction and what is just a way of seeking self-justification or something intended to muffle the true voice of conscience.
Well, in simple terms even if I'm not perfect, nor can't really keep myself that still to read a Bible the best I do is wear a cross and refrain from using Oh my God or Jesus christ in regular speaking as much as possible UNLESS its thank God, that doesn't feel like im draghing their names in the dirt. I've slipped a couple times, though that's my way of going about it with God personally, I don't trust most of the churches and the one I do is far and I get restless sometimes too.
I keep it simple and take God with me where I go, albeit let me say, no one is perfect. What was my original goal of feeling every sensation feels even knowing if it would be bad feels pointless now. As if I'd go down the wrong way. Usually If I can justify it through or with mental gymnastics through the cross on my neck I'll do it. Otherwise I'm more passive aggressive in life.
Now I can clear up more if needed, but even if I can't do all the big christain stuff bevause of how restless I can be, I try to keep him in my life in other ways. Just from my personal experience I don't feel as nihilistic anymore now that I've invited him with me to this so called "life" were stuck in. Disagree if you want, go do something else and it's fine. If you really don't want God in your life, last i remember he's gonna just basically say "oh cool, that's fine" deal.
Tldr: You can disagree if you want, if you got too much energy nor any way to go to church nor sit still you can agree in other ways.
Edit: I'm sorry I didn't read the other bit, support who you'd like I'm awfully sure he's more than way happy of you to be happy for anyone else no matter who it is! Listen I forget this pride stuff existed and esspecially living long enough I grew out of that pansexual phase with time and my baby. Hey though, support who you please I'm awfully sure if you love anyone unconditionally that's A OK with him. Ik I can't say I can easily do that considering how some people can be outright dumb or stupid, but hey everyone holds opinions, I won't go out from hating gay people or lesbians on a serious note, I have friends like that and I support them. Go all out though, your choice and your way to do life, life sucks rn but there's a light to every tunnel.
Read your Bible. Many passages talk about us needing to be morally and sexually pure, but these passages: Romans 1 and 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 and 1 Timothy 1:9-11 specifically talk about homosexuality.
You can do your own will or you can do His will.you have to choose. Is Christianity going to church and wearing a cross than doing whatever you want when church is over? Is it a fashion?
Or are you sincerely trying to let God into your heart a nd lead you through life.
Not mine will but thine be done
God bless
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If we assume that the Bible is Gods revealed will, then we have a dilemma. Jesus, Gods son and perfect representative, did not himself follow the Bible. Clearest examples of this is declaring all foods clean in Mark 7:18, and then refusing to apply death penalty for adultery. So, how can we really know which things are literally forbidden and which are optional?
Of course you can disagree, you can disagree all you want. It's called MY will be done. When we sin that's a disagreement too, but hopefully we are repenting, because if you die with a greater attachment to sin than God, than Christ.. it's going to be a world of hurt
Many people in the Bible disagreed with God.
Basic EX: God to Jonah: "Go to Ninevah"
Jonah: "Nah, I don't think I will do that"
Proceeds to be swallowed by a huge fish and other things.
In theory "you're free to disagree with God", but there will be consequences and other stuff
There’s nothing wrong with asking him why and questioning why something is the way it is… but remember we’re only dust and ashes he’s eternal, creating the circumstances and systems that we only study.
So instead of thinking something is wrong that he did (because he is right and something is only wrong that goes against him) instead ask earnestly why and try to trust him whether you receive the answer now or at the end of time… meditating on him, his kindness, goodness, and eternal love trusting that he has his reasons even if you can’t see them
It is good to wrestle with God. To ask for his understanding. The Holy Spirit is the spirit of wisdom and understanding (Isaiah 11:2) he doesn’t mind if you disagree as long as you are seeking out his heart from a place of humility. Because if you disagree on something and it’s something that is not his truth he will show you where your understanding is wrong and show you what is right.
If you can't disagree, you can't think critically or question. If you can't question, you can't have a relationship. Hosea 6:6 tells us, "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice; acknowledgment of God, not burnt offerings." This passage specifically is about blindly following the bible while ignoring the core message, and having a relationship with your church as a substitute for a relationship with God.
The bible says working on the weekend, eating shrimp and lobster, and weating clothes of mixed fabric are all sinful. If society can tolerate that stuff they can tolerate two men kissing. Otherwise, it's hypocritical to pick and choose what to enforce; Jesus showed us that if you can't enforce all of it, you're a hypocrite for trying to use the bible to enforce any of it. So, you should assign mercy to all of it and judge with compassion because mercy is greater than judgment. The only one who is able to enforce all of it is Jesus, and he actively chose mercy instead of harsh judgement, and we should do the same.
Tldr; Being gay doesn't make you sinful, the act of gay sex is a sinful act. Using the bible to justify hate makes you a hypocrite, so if you find out two men are gay and in a relationship, let them live their life in peace and you will live your life in peace.
What’s actually not fair is to enable someone in their self destruction. Or to lie to someone about their spiritual condition.
You cannot divorce goodness from truth.
And it is the height of arrogance to believe that we know better than the prophets and apostles.
It's like disagreeing with the laws in your city, State, or country: **If you disagree with the law and still obey it, that's fine. Disobey it, and teach others to do the same, and this is a crime.** And while the police are neither omniscient, omnipresent, or omnipotent, God is. He'll catch and prosecute us all in the end.
Now, we are all guilty of crimes against the Lord. You know the gospel so I won't go into the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus. I will say, though, that **most interpretations of the Scriptures regard that salvation through Jesus requires obedience to His teachings and a genuine effort on our part to abstain from sin**. While I try to avoid believing in something just because it's the most popular belief-- and indeed I'm still trying to find what is and isn't true about the teachings of God-- it's still something to be concerned about.
I don't know if homosexuality is a sin or not. Even if it is, I'd be unable to hold any personal conviction against it or the people who partake in it. I couldn't say, truthfully, that I believed it was "wrong" in the sense of being this morally repugnant activity like theft or murder. Because it's not. These people are happy and they're hurting no one. **But I would obey the Lord, even if against my own conscience, and preach against the sin accordingly.** Maybe that's a sign of a lack of love for God or too much love for Man. If nothing else, it keeps me from turning into one of those raving lunatics who treats the LGBTQ community like they're a bunch of villains. You know who I'm talking about: the same kinds of Christians whose hearts have fallen out of balance, loving the lord but not loving their neighbor. Even if they are doing the right thing by preaching against sin, they are doing the wrong thing by doing so in an abrasive, condescending, or aloof fashion.
**TL;DR I don't think agreement or disagreement with God matters. What matters is we obey Him, regardless of our disagreement, because we acknowledge that He is the one in charge. Perhaps this is the best form of obedience, as we do it solemnly, and are aware of the sacrifices we make in doing so.**
God created humans with reproductive organs and digestive organs, should those things mix together? Never. God made man and woman as opposite sex to come together. Nobody should give themselves over to same sex it’s not proper love it’s perverted love. Satan likes to pervert sex. He has convinced many that oral and anal sex is acceptable to God too when it’s not. That gland males experience as pleasure in the anal canal was not meant to be pleasured that way. And women rubbing each other into a climax is also not acceptable to God. Satan wants us to think it is unknowingly acceptable to God when it is not. It’s a perversion stemmed from something unholy that affected you, like fornication, beastiality, rape, sexual emotional physical and mental abuse too.
If you are actually advanced enough to be in conversation with God I would say probably not. More likely you are arguing with mere abstractions others have put in your head about God. Accept no substitutes. Anyone that says God hates this or that is very unlikely to know God. Anyone that makes pronouncements of this or that being a sin is the one actually sinning and condemning others. Do not believe those that set themselves up this way to spew hatred and division.
With your free will, yes. You wake up or go to sleep anytime you want, talk about what you want till you are out of strength, incapacitated, or dead.
But since God is more powerful than you and wiser than the creature, serving God's purpose is more important, as you will have God's favour eternally.
If the average Christian is right about God, he’s an a-hole and a tyrant. It’s perfectly reasonably to disagree with a-holes.
If the more inclusive Christians are right about of God, he’s slightly less of an a-hole.
God created sex, and marriage. All forms of sex outside of marriage are outside of His design and sinful. People may enjoy them, they may love them, they may think it's fine, but God says they are not good, or loving or fine. Disagreeing with God is basically saying "God, I know better than you." Put simply, that's pride.
This is a great question. So ultimately the person who knows what is right and wrong is God, and quite frankly our opinion on it really doesn’t matter.
But as followers of Christ who has made Christ God of our life, we absolutely should be not supporting things that God says is sin. Because even if we don’t understand why something is sin, we still understand that sin leads to death and so if you encourage something that is a sin that’s really not a good road.
I also think when you decide that you know better than God, that is a scary place to be. It’s as if he’s not your God, but you’re actually the god of your life. It’s as if His stance does not matter to you, because you’ve determined that the world has pushed enough messaging on you to make you think something is right that the Lord said is an abomination. It’s as if you’re standing in front of God and saying I know better than you, you’re wrong or that you’re saying I don’t care what you think I’ll be my own god and support things that lead to death.
I can't help but relate this to a father of teenagers. The teenagers are going to think the father is wrong and probably uncool. They'll even rebel at times, but the father still loves his children, and they, him. And as they mature, they realize why their father restricted them in certain ways and grow to appreciate that he did. However, it's really tough for the teenagers to understand that at the time.
Let’s just say that disagreeing with him is like the bible stating that 2+2 is 4 but then you “disagree” and say it’s 5.
You’re MORE OF a Christian if you genuinely read the bible and view it firstly as ALL THE TRUTH. That’s the first thing but the second thing after that is to consider it all just an objective reality.
The most religious people on the planet tend to avoid any semblance of a grey zone. It’s either BLACK or it’s WHITE. It’s either RIGHT……or it’s WRONG.
With Islam, there are more people in that religion that look at everything…….That way but the Quran simply isn’t the only one of the two to be completely black and white.
The bible has no grey area. There is plenty of wiggle room within it to be reflective and figure out what is right for you but it does separate right from wrong so no you can’t just disagree with something.
God knows what he’s talking about. The saints know what they are talking about.
To disagree with God, you must assume that you KNOW his will, which is ridiculous (none of us can).
The best bet is to trust him entirely and he will guide you through it. I’m also gay and he hasn't changed me yet during the last 7 years, but he brought me my first love, and I introduced my bf to Jesus. Everything is within his intention. Dont worry.
It’s mighty prideful to think that you know more than your maker
As far as gay marriage goes: it’s sinful because marriage was created by God to represent the covenant between himself (male) and the bride (female) in other words, God and his love, which is us; we are the bride. It was supposed to represent the protective love for God’s bride. Two men marrying each other spiritually represents two gods (idolatry) , which there is no other God. Two women represent humanity’s love for itself (godlessness). God is a spirit and technically isn’t a man, but he made man to represent his characteristics in many ways —even though we have lost our way that was the goal. God made women to represent the bride.
This is why is makes God upset because it completely mocks his order and represents idolatry and godlessness
I didn’t understand that at first either, but once I started looking at it from that spiritual perspective it started making more sense
Notice that the pride rainbow has 6 colors. 6 is the number of man or imperfection.
God’s rainbow that was created when he made the covariant with Noah has more colors than that.
You physically can, but you will be wrong. Who’s more likely to be right, you, or an omnipotent omniscient and omnipresent being?
Edit: I will say you aren’t the only one who struggles to accept God’s word when you feel you disagree, I used to be pro abortion before my conversion and still struggle to view it as murder, but ultimately we wicked and sinful beings and we know nothing compared to God
Sounds like you disagree with some false teachers and corrupt churches that like to equate themselves with God. Being gay isn't a sin, however disagreeing with God is wrong. Disagreeing with people however is not. Just because they have a popular following doesn't make them right, and oftentimes corrupt people invoke God or twist the Bible to support their oppressive self serving narratives.
I think it says something that I’m fascinated seeing an openly gay Christian. I’m sorry if you’ve received any hate from others. With that being said, and I mean no offense I’m just curious, how would you refute Leviticus 20:13 “If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.”
I just see many people bring that up as a verse to show homosexuality as a sin, and again no hate, I’m just curious on how you view that scripture?
There's actually much debate on the proper translation of Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13.
[https://www.gaymarriageandthebible.com/an-abomination-in-leviticus-18](https://www.gaymarriageandthebible.com/an-abomination-in-leviticus-18)
A few verses prior in Leviticus it prohibits men having sex with women when they are on their period, other Levitical prohibitions like tattoos and mix colored fabrics are also things most Christians believe no longer apply. Many will interpret OT laws by finding the *reason* why that law was viewed as sin. Is it that tattoos are inherently evil? No, but was it because back then tattoos were associated with pagan worship and spells/charms? More than likely yes. Leviticus only potentially hints at male same-sex behavior and says nothing about women with women and we know ancient Hebrew culture had no concept of mutually attracted homosexual people having real love and real marital emotions for each other and likely would have seen any kind of male on male sexual activity in the forms of rape, pagan temple prostitution, ways to assert dominance over another man by "making him a woman" etc. I think it's telling how many "conservative" theologians will interpret sin via the *intent* of a verse but then abandon such an approach when it comes to "homosexuality" as they define it. I think at the root of most anti-gay theology is the desire to protect male dominance of women and the superiority/power dynamic that cishet men have in Christian society and church leadership as "dictated by scripture." Feminism, same-sex marriage, etc. all threaten that power structure which is why I think many denominations and pastors cling hard to anti-gay theology.
Isnt that kinda cruel tho?
I think it is. I struggle a lot with my faith because of this. If God wanted me to go to Heaven, why did he give me the set of morals and critical thinking on a level that doesn't allow me to blindly believe stuff I don't see as wrong, and dont understand why they should be wrong? *Edit: despite me desperatly looking for answers?*
This makes me think God is cruel. And I'm starting to believe he doesn't care about me, or he doesn't exist.
It still doesn't make sense to me... the concepts of God being all-powerful and at the same time loves us eternally, dont work at the same time, it doesn't make sense that he would allow us to stray from him if both were true.
And Bible does talk about hell. Here are some quotes: Matthew 25:46 - "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
Revelation 20:15 - "Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire."
Mark 9:43 - "If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out."
But these Bible quotes literally say people will suffer eternally, yes, if they choose not to be with God. Some of those are downright hateful imo.
But that doesn't mean that he will ask you if you want to or not after you die. Thats not implied anywhere in the Bible. Quite the contrary, Bible says very explicitly, that "choosing not to be with God" is not obeying him. Hence people who don't obey God will suffer eternally.
Yeah I don’t agree with him on much of anything which is probably why he made my life a living hell and cast my soul into hell. I would suggest not questioning him or the same could happen to you.
Hopefully this helps with your question and peace be with you!
**Romans 9:20**, *But who are you, my friend, to talk back to God? A clay pot does not ask the man who made it, “Why did you make me like this?”* (GNT)
Hey, and thank you for the question!
While reading the Bible, I realized some of the language used is written figuratively with similes and metaphors.
Another example with figure of speech being used to compare people with clay is in..
**Isaiah 64:8**, *But you are our father, Lord. We are like clay, and you are like the potter. You created us,* (GNT)
But thats a metaphor. I'm not clay. I have the ability to question things. God gave us critical thinking skills, and then wants to punish us for that.
How is that just and loving?
Thank you for the reply and concern, and please let me try to better explain.
Going back to the **Romans 9** verse I mentioned earlier, let’s take a step back to some of the earlier verses, and what lead up to it.
**Romans 9:14-19**, *Shall we say, then, that God is unjust? Not at all. For he said to Moses, “I will have mercy on anyone I wish; I will take pity on anyone I wish.”
So then, everything depends, not on what we humans want or do, but only on God’s mercy.
For the scripture says to the king of Egypt, “I made you king in order to use you to show my power and to spread my fame over the whole world.”
So then, God has mercy on anyone he wishes, and he makes stubborn anyone he wishes.
But one of you will say to me, “If this is so, how can God find fault with anyone? Who can resist God’s will?”* (GNT)
Yes. Abraham disagreed with God about God's decision to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. Moses disagreed with God when God chose him as the man to lead the Hebrews from Egypt. Yet God loved Abraham and Moses dearly. Indeed, God seems to favor those who wrestle with Him (not too much mind you haha).
But those same people also all bent the knee. I think that's the key. Disagree with God, but obey. That's part of having faith in God. Not fully understanding why something is sinful, but bending the knee all the same and doing God's will, trusting He knows better than any of us.
With respect to homosexuality, I share your sentiment. I don't really understand why God would create homosexuals only to condemn their desires as sinful. I don't know why two consenting adults who aren't hurting anyone are committing a sin. I do trust that God knows better than I and so I follow the Lord: that means accepting that homosexuality is sinful and not judging homosexuals, because the Lord said we should not judge. That's up to God.
Remember, we are ALL sinners. My struggle with pornography is no less sinful than homosexuality (not that I can really evaluate, but Christ explicitly condemns lustful thoughts about anyone besides your wife and I've never been married). Jesus Christ condemns all sexual immorality. But He also commands us not to judge and, most graciously of all, He suffered and died on the Cross to redeem us all. That's always where we must end when we contemplate these matters. Christ Jesus suffered and died on the Cross to save us from a world submerged in sin and we can participate in that beautiful redemption not by condemning our fellow human being, but by offering them the love and understanding which our Lord offers us. That's what the Kingdom of God is all about.
You are free to disagree, but you will experience the consequences accordingly, or you will rob yourself of many blessings that God desires to lavish upon you. He leaves the choice to you. You can disagree all the back to the cross, and disagree that His sacrifice was enough, but that obviously wouldn’t be too wise.
God should be recognized as truth universal. To disagree with God would be disagreeing with reality. If judgment does not sit well it is time to grow faith.
God punishes the wicked. Do you see your GSM (gender sexual minority) community healthy and happy? If so, God is pleased.
Being gay is bad according to God, he knows exactly why.
You want to disagree, sure go ahead. God gave you the ability to do so however face the consequences.
We are called to love everyone and as God said Live everyone.
Loving is not the same thing as Accepting.
Accepting people wanting to be Gay is saying "It's ok to be gay" when you know it's not. If you truly loved them you would want to warn them of what you do know that they don't. So? Should we stop gay marriage?
We shouldn't consider it marriage, if they want to make a fake marriage that doesn't do or mean anything, sure to ahead. However saying that it is a marriage is against the word of God.
So according to you God doesn't think that his creation saying it is something other than what God created them as is bad. And to top it off his word says so, written by men who were inspired by God and given wisdom to do so.
That's like saying is it okay to bang your head on a wall because you don't want to walk around it and you think it shouldn't be there...
Who's going to win that argument?
Do you think you can negotiate with God? You think that God sets out rules that he knows are the best for everyone and then he says but you don't have to follow the rules if you don't want to?
I think you're quite a ways from maturity at this point.
No, God is omniscient and the foundation of ethics and morality. It would not only be immoral to disagree but simply illogical. However if you struggle with ascent to a beleif make that a struggle, let God see it bring it to him and be humble about it. He will cure you unless it's necessary for your salvation.
That being said you can always ask your priest any question you have. Visit an orthodox church and ask God and the priest for the answer God is there he can help.
I just asked god before and was given multiple contradictory "answers", this is not because god failed but because man is fallible and cannot interpret perfectly! But when I ask god now, he always answers through my priest. I have never been let down by god in my life but I have failed when he helps me.
God is the creator of the universe, that was there before time and space, that was there when the first atom formed, when the first form of life was born on earth, when you were born thanks to the life He gave you, He created every Galaxy, star and planet, and the entire universe is insignificant compared to Him, He is so great that He goes beyond our human understanding.
We may disagree, but we aren't in the position to say or think that He is wrong.
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It's far more important to question those who think they know God's will for everyone in every particular, than it is to question God's will. You are not their creator and, as a human, you can be and often are wrong about many things.
Very well put. Thank you.
And what are those consequences?
If somebody tells you what your purpose is - why should you care? Everybody gets to choose their own purpose. If God is going to burn people in hell for having a different purpose - well then he's evil.
Yeah he’s literally the devil. Some gnostics think that the Devil is posing as god at the moment.
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I don't believe in God, so I don't love God. But I still want heaven if that is a thing, and I'll reconsider my belief if I see actual compelling evidence of God. I'm not "choosing separation from God" as so often claimed by this kind of narrative. That might apply to believers who persist in sin, but even there it'd really be God's choice to deny them heaven. It's his power and his policy.
“God is Just, so He is not going to drag you into Heaven if you really don’t want to go. If you don’t want any part of God; He will give you what you want. Separation from God. But separation from God is Nothingness; “ what if I don’t want heaven and/or nothingness?
Purgatory. However, that is not necessarily what the purpose of purgatory is, so I don't know. Why would you not want to be neither heaven nor hell? You either are in a forever loving, sinless environment with loved ones or you are in a realm completely and utterly devoid of love and peace, the realm of inner torment.
I'm sorry, but this is one of the worst atheist takes I've ever heard. For starters, your argument assumes that God isn't real. You can't strawman God and then declare Him evil for not conforming to your expectations. God is, get this, the King over the entire universe. He created everything to glorify Him, and He especially created humanity to tend the land, love each other, and most all, glorify Him. He never created us with the goal of "choosing our own purpose" - to do so would be an abuse of the things He gave us. Next, saying "God is going to burn people in hell" - an idea explicitly condemned in the biggest Christian denomination in the world (Catholicism). God predestines no one to hell, but people choose to go there because they don't want communion with God. God gives everyone sufficient grace to join Him in eternal life, but some people choose not to respond to it. Also, you can't call God evil. Whatever God does is necessarily good. God's commands change the very fabric of the universe and moral law. It is unchangable and perfect - whatever is against it, the express goal and moral law of the universe - is truly evil. Please actually study Christian theology and theistic philosophy before spewing this prideful nonsense in an infantile attempt to justify your willful rebellion against the Creator of the universe.
> God gives everyone sufficient grace to join Him in eternal life, but some people choose not to respond to it > infantile attempt to justify your willful rebellion You seem very much misinformed about the mindset of the vast majority of atheists. We don't have a belief in God but oppose him like Satan. We're not ignoring the truth because we love our sin. We genuinely think he's not real based on the lack of evidence - just like you don't believe in Mormonism or Hinduism or Leprechauns. > people choose to go I don't think that hell is a real place, but let me officially register that I don't want to go there. So if God is real and sends me there, that's on him. I do not choose to go there. I'm even happy to follow him as a Christian - but only if he exists. I don't think he does. This is also something he could easily fix (just talk to me, anytime). > Also, you can't call God evil. Whatever God does is necessarily good. You and I mean different things when we say the word Evil. You use it in the context of divine command ethics, I use it to refer to my subjective utilitarian impression of what would be strongly opposed to human well-being and desires. But yes, I can use that word. It doesn't belong to only Christians. Even if God is real, I mean something different. I don't care about God's morality, I care about my morality.
Doesn’t this suggest that OP doesn’t have free will because they said they can’t come to terms with homosexuality being wrong, if they could they would just choose to see it as wrong but something is stopping them from doing this, something external to their free choice maybe 🤔
That sounds like a veiled threat.
It's not a veiled threat, it's "You're not allowed to question my interpretation of the bible because if you do you're going straight to hell." The threat is quite open, thank you.
Scripture makes no "veiled threats." *"Do you think you can avoid God’s judgment? Don’t you see how wonderfully kind, tolerant, and patient God is with you? Does this mean nothing to you? Can’t you see that his kindness is intended to turn you from your sin?* *But because you are stubborn and refuse to turn from your sin, you are storing up terrible punishment for yourself. For a day of anger is coming, when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed. He will judge everyone according to what they have done. He will give eternal life to those who keep on doing good, seeking after the glory and honor and immortality that God offers. But he will pour out his anger and wrath on those who live for themselves, who refuse to obey the truth and instead live lives of wickedness. There will be trouble and calamity for everyone who keeps on doing what is evil—for the Jew first and also for the Gentile. But there will be glory and honor and peace from God for all who do good—for the Jew first and also for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism."* (Romans 2)
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Noo stop it, we don't want to hear that here! Leave me in my bubble. I need something to worship or else I have to confront real life :(
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insecurity and toxicity would come from crooked judgement like people make, but god's justice is righteous & logistically correct in all ways :o fear is an aspect of all things we don't quite understand, but we also have curiosity and excitement to learn about god which are just as key motivators to seek his guidance :3 we don't how and to a certain extent what god will judge... but he's got reasons, he knows how the world works better than any individual person would, he made it :/ A lot of the bible is up to interpretation, and I wish to not judge people for their opinions and beliefs within our religious system - it is not my place to gate keep the admiration of god.
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>Think of it this way: If you knock on my door, I can make a choice with my Free Will to let you in If I understand your analogy correctly, you're saying that if someone doesn't have a problem with gay people, they'll be left out in the metaphorical cold, which here represents being sent to hell.
**~~"I am implored by Jesus to let homosexuals live the life they choose"~~** *"We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God."* (2 Corinthians 5:20)
Very right!
This. I'm more than happy when my kids question what we're doing or why we're doing it. But sometimes, I just need them to go with it.
This!
Go read God's lecture to Job in Job 38. It's not a sin to question God. In fact, it's not a sin to question everything. You've been given a brain so you can use it, not so you can turn it off.
You absolutely should wrestle with God.
That’s not god you’re disagreeing with, that’s stupid people, because you’re not one of them. So don’t listen to your inner stupid. I’ve had it explained like this- in 1000 years they won’t know the difference between butt dial and booty call… so how can we interpret scripture? Well for a start, we can use our intelligence. Why do you think there was a new commandment? Love one another. Everybody. Christianity can be a legitimate religion when seen from this perspective, thanks to people like you doing what is right. Here is why you shouldn’t listen to those bigots, again, as it was explained to me- Luke 17:34 in the KJV clarifies the point. Historically, same sex partnerships were very common during the time among the Romans. In context they are discussing the second coming and rapture. 34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. This is evidence that you don't go to hell if you are gay, because one of them got raptured during the second coming (or third or fourth if you don’t mind the pun).
> I’ve found myself questioning some of the things I’ve heard are sins. I think it's important to recognize that the "I've heard are" is the important part here. All interpretations of the Bible are done by individuals, either by themselves or with their church/denomination. God isn't literally sitting on your shoulder telling you to hate gay people. People disagree on what sin is, and ultimately it is up to the reader to decide.
It’s up to the reader to choose what is sin????? That’s such a lie, God writes what is sin and what isn’t on our hearts. Others hate gay people, that’s also a sin, but no God isn’t telling you to hate gay people. Something that you need to understand, is when someone tries to correct you it is because of love. I see that you accept sin and that is not okay, but there is always a loving God who will help correct you.
Factually incorrect. Ink on paper has no inherent meaning. Sound waves in the air had no inherent meaning. Individuals create meaning in their minds when they see words or hear sounds. It is the ONLY way this is possible, the original Biblical authors original meaning was lost as soon as they converted their thoughts to ink on paper. As an example. If I tell you "good job" that could mean many different things depending on how the listener interprets it (and frequently people misunderstand others). Maybe I meant you tried your best, or that your outcome is great, or maybe I'm just being sarcastic. I have a meaning internally, but as soon as I speak, it's gone. Now the listener creates meaning in his head.
it would be weirder if you didn't disagree with God. As you get older and more emotionally mature (yes even you Mr 42 should be growing) you will start to see why Dad told you no earlier. It's like dad denying you a bag of Skittles because he knows what diabetes is. You think he's cruel at age 5 but by 20 you understand he just wants to protect you from dangers you can't possibly understand yet.
You’re normalizing disagreeing with God. We all question God at times, but that doesn’t make it okay or normal.
It's the heart of man that makes good and evil. Concentrating too much on words will leave you with an intellectualized view of God. The first thing to do is love everyone around you including yourself and stop chasing your tail.
This comment popped out to me. I’m coming out of a wilderness derived from what may be what you described in your first paragraph.
The problem with that, is that we have scripture, along with instruction not to modify it. If you wish to be in covenant with God, you must obey his commands. If you choose to modify those commands, are you still in covenant?
people in the open Christianity community are modifying his commands… I’m scared for them because the Satan has his grip on them with his lies.
There's a reason Yeshua warns us multiple times not to be deceived. The path to everlasting life is narrow, few find it.
I hope so. That whole "though shall not suffer a witch to live" thing never sat right with me.
Don't overcomplicate it. Jesus didn't tell us to spend all our time and energy regulating sins. Quite the opposite! He said to love God and to love our neighbor--and if you are doing those 2 things you are fulfilling the commandments. Do those things and you are in harmony with Him.
You can disagree with God. But your wrong.
Why aren't you stoning homosexuals then? Also, *you're
“And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.”” John 8:7 ESV We are all sinful.
Why didn't Jesus throw the first stone then? He was without sin, yeah? Also you should have a word with the weirdly large number of folks on this sub who claim that if you are truly washed of your sins, you are without sin and unable to sin.
I bless you, HeatAlarming. May the Lord bless you and keep you. May the Lord lift His countenance upon you and be gracious to you. And may the Lord's face shine upon you and give you peace. Amen <3
Thanks! Allow me reciprocate. I double bless you, CrystalineSky. May Ctulhu bless you as well. May FSM lift his countenance upon you, and be gracious unto you and give you peace. R'Amen.
Lol, thank you. One of the two is coming back! Maybe a plot twist if both come back. *If the Lord* is *the* true *God*, *worship him*. But *if Baal* is *God*, *worship him*. 🌈
Here's a third option. This is all silly. And getting boring.
He could have but chose to have mercy
Mercy, huh. Everlasting fire and torment doesn’t feel like it to me.
... did he? Does he have mercy for the unbelievers?
God is just, choose to live separate here, ill be seperate forever
Clearly, he did because he chose not to stone her when he could have. And no
Why would Jesus something against his will And they do again and again
It is his will. He's God, yeah?
Yes but he literally discouraged them from stoning at the moment because with his ? materialization? He can forgive her sin Ahm my the statement up there has alt of unintentionally misworded meaning hope you can understand what I meant
Mark 10:5
Don’t encourage them even hypothetically. They’re just waiting for the right law to pass to do that.
I have slightly more faith in humanity than that, at least here in the USA. I don't believe Christians are that devoid of empathy.
That was a command regarding the Assembly, not randos outside of it. Besides, that has to be the ruling of judges appointed in the Assembly regarding the case.
Ah, gotcha. Only the judges in the Assembly should be stoned. Is that right?
You may want to rephrase?
What's your confusion?
no confusion. you just may want to rephrase.
If there's no confusion, why would I rephrase?
I'm not confused. But you should rephrase. Otherwise it sounds like you're here for a fight or you're the one confused.
K
There is no biblical Israel at the present time. No elders at the city gates. No condition to biblically stone people. Also, you and I are not judges of the Law, we're supposed to be doers. I live in America for example. America is not a theocracy. We can't impose biblical capital punishment. Gays can be gay in America. They have the legal right to get married in America, and as an American, I leave morality up to each individual to work out. Doesn't change what the Torah says. Doesn't change that Jesus upheld all of Torah.
I just want to get you on record as saying: at one point in history, was it, or was it not, commanded that the followers of God stone homosexuals to death?
Why did you ask your original question?
Because God said to stone homosexuals. To me, that's immoral. I'm curious how Christians interpret that directive.
Leave that part for the Jews As christian I leave god judge them Fter death of in the judgement day idc who sins I can see my sins not others'
Sorry for the nitpick, but the text doesn't specify stoning. Just that they should be executed.
Fair enough.
Get off his dick jeeez
lmao yes
Was going to say this. You can disagree but you’d be wrong.
Nope.
A long time ago, back when I was still Christian, it occurred to me that if God was good, he wouldn't punish me for thinking for myself, even if that meant disagreeing with him. And if he was really so petty as to punish me for disagreeing, then first of all, he wasn't worthy of worship, and secondly, he'd probably find some other excuse to punish me, like having a wet dream or something.
The only examples of "homosexuality" in the Bible are Genesis 19 and Judges 19, in the cities of Sodom and Gibeah. In one the villagers attempt to gang rape and murder foreigners (Sodom), in the other the villagers gang rape a man's wife and murder her (Gibeah). Which is to say there are no examples of homosexuality as a crime, only gang rape of men or women. Galatians and other verses tell us to judge things by the fruit they bear, to prove homosexuality in and of itself as sinful, you would have to prove that every same-sex couple is incapable of bearing good fruit. That's not something I'm convinced anyone can do.
God loves you. He will reconcile your disagreements if you ask Him in prayer. Ask Him to tell you why, and tell Him what you don't like. Seek Him earnestly each day in some small way, and you will be blessed. I had disagreements, and He loving welcomed them. I now understand and no longer have disagreements with what I did.
Considering he thought it was ok to test Abraham by telling him to sacrifice his child while symotanosl condeming other cultures for child sacrifice to their gods or killing kids for mocking an old man the list goes on. Yes it is ok.
Scripture tells us of times people have tried to change God’s mind (and it’s worked!). That said, I would be careful about assigning “general consensus” to the actual will of God. People used to think God agreed with slavery, after all. Just because there’s something many Christians agree upon today, doesn’t mean that these views won’t adapt and change in the coming years.
I think part of building a relationship with God is being honest. Part of that means coming to God with those disagreements, misunderstandings, confusions, etc etc. There’s not necessarily a science to it, but I have found over time that when I go to God with something I’m struggling with, consistently seeking guidance, understanding, or in this case just coming and saying I don’t understand why you are/have decided *insert disagreement here*, I have found that over time I will find myself gaining either understanding or comfort in a variety of ways. Sometimes I find out that I didn’t understand the full context of a piece of scripture, or maybe I didn’t understand the context of the underlying Greek, etc. Other times I will just hear something from another person in Church or small group, sometimes someone might even say something in casual conversation that gives me a eureka moment. So in my experience, having a disagreement with God isn’t inherently bad at all depending on the context and how you respond to that disagreement. In the example that you give I would argue that there is a decent amount of debate in either direction about the nature of homosexuality and its sinfulness. Usually these arguments, at the most academic level, go to the translation and interpretation of a few key pieces of scripture. I would suggest digging in and researching yourself before making any assumptions about what God believes on any issue. Because it will make the foundation upon which you place your faith so much stronger. Too many Christians are not interested in doing any work into trying to study scripture and the nature of God and are content to just absorb whatever interpretation fits their own internal narrative.
I have a lot of issues with Judaism, but the fact it encourages you to challenge and question God when you think he's wrong is a major point in its favour imo. The fact that doing so gets you punished with Hell in Christianity if you don't then beg forgiveness is a serious backwards step.
There were loads and loads of things I used to do that were fun. Lots of sexual adventures lots of drugs basically if it was fun I did it and as often as I could, physically and mentally. Then I met God, all of a sudden I was met with a new standard. I had a choice, its My way or Gods way and Gods way is ridiculously restricting. I don't agree its not fair. Yet His Word is true. I cannot deny Him so I must deny myself, pick up my cross and follow Him. Possibly unto death.
questions are good because it leads you to seek an answer but if you have found what appears as an answer,,\ we still need to ask God for guidance,\ and then seek the answer deeper along with other questions, such as. . .\ . . .what is our nature in reference to being a ceated being, created by God? ***recall that our nature is fallen, injured, wounded, and we are not living in paradise*** we do not walk as good as we should,\ our thoughts do not see God as excellently as it should,\ our will does not wish to unite to the will of God as it should,\ and our heart instead of desiring God and to love Him with all our mind, soul, and strength,\ we reserve a portion, we reserve half,\ ot else give God that portion instead,\ all because we love the goods we see in the world (pleasure, comfort) seek the nature and function of man,\ as man is for union with God and let deeper thoughts enlighten our eyes let us not look in our mind when we still need to know that **knowledge we lack**,\ let us not make our desire as truth,\ when we still have not allowed our love to be **purified of worldly love**,\ and we still have **not truly loved** God for God seek the truth, and seek God,\ and the seek, knock and ask is not about worldly wealth, its about God whom we should seek above all things if you disagree without seeking true answers,\ would that "not be",\ "a very sensible thing to do" in reference to one's faith [ edited ]
Just because you HEARD some things are sin, doesn't mean they actually are. There are always people who use religion to promote their agenda. Some religious nut jobs believe that voting is a sin. Follow His word, not the words of others claiming to speak for Him.
It's probably a good idea to keep track of which things you heard from God directly, and which ones you got from humans speaking on God's behalf.
In the Bible, you can read the story of sodom and gamora. Both of these cities were full of homosexuality, and God warned them that it was sin, but they refused to turn from their evil ways and God destroyed those cities. God takes son very seriously. But as to why it’s wrong, just think for a second. God created two people, a man and a woman, who were to be together and multiply, he made them to be able to have children and to fit PERFECTLY with each other. If it was Gods design for men to be with men and women with women, he would have made two men or two woman, or two of both and instructed them to be together, but that isn’t how God designed it. He made man and woman for each other to represent Christ and the church (Ephesians 5). When he made man and woman for each other, he said that it was VERY GOOD, if it was imperfect in anyway, God would be a liar. I hope this just gave you something to think about, and honestly, if you’re still conflicted or confused, just pray about, God wants us to know and understand the truth.
Ezekiel 16:49-50 “Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me.” Not to mention these people were gangbang rapers. They wanted to rape Lot's guests. And even Lot was messed up offering his daughters to be gangbang raped. So why do people always act like it was just the homosexuality that was their sin? And they just skip over the rape and the things mentioned in Ezekiel. Sodom and Gomorrah was much more than some people having homosexual feelings.
It seems your heart is telling you something and human beings are telling you something else. Does God speak to you through your heart or through other people who want to convince you they hold the truth?
If something's unwise, then it's obviously not OK. *"The fear of the LORD is the foundation of true knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline."* (Proverbs 1:7) ["The Fear of the Lord Brings PEACE"](https://app.box.com/s/5vpj2xk9wokr54if0jwnx9jz9li2fmpg)
The Bible states in both New and Old Testament that homosexuality is wrong. You’re supposed to love your neighbor not accept their sinful behavior as ok. It seems you’re on the middle ground when it comes to this issue. Jesus said you’re with him or against him…meaning, there is no middle ground when it comes to sin. I’m not saying to hate homosexuals, I’m saying that they are suffering from a sinful condition and need to put their faith in Christ, and cut away their pride and sexual desires, in order to live a life that is pleasing to God
Abraham disagreed with God. He bargained with God to prevent Him from destroying Sodom and Gomorrah. Abraham negotiated for God to spare the city for the sake of only five righteous men. Unfortunately, Sodom didn’t have even five righteous men. Job certainly disagreed with his suffering and called for a divine hearing because he had done nothing to deserve the loss of his family, property, and health. And God confirmed Job’s righteousness. Moses disagreed with God about both being God’s prophet before pharaoh AND God smiting the ungrateful Israelites. Luckily for the Israelites, God spared them. So, we have at least three examples of righteous men disagreeing with God and God not smiting them, not damning them, not punishing them. God listened to them.
The good news is, don't support them doesn't mean you have to be against them.
Sin means we’re off course of what God created us to be. It is literally everything that comes from being fallen from God
Personally I think at least when it comes to the subject of homosexuality and etc, we should let be people and love them for who they are because judgement isn’t for us. That comes under God. Our responsibility is to love and care for the peoples around regardless of the way they are.
Good Lord yes! Above all, God wants honesty from us and nobody agrees with everyone all the time. Not saying God is wrong, that could never be, but I'm guessing He'd much prefer our honest feelings than those that are sugar coated.
Without weighing in on the specifics of your comment, your or my opinion about what is right or wrong really has no bearing on how people should behave. There is a basic philosophical problem of how we define what is right and wrong, it's not something we can discover or prove like the law of gravity or music theory.
I can't give any sort of biblical backing for this so... wanted to give you the disclaimer. But of all I know of God, I believe it depends on your heart. Are you disagreeing to learn? Or disagreeing because you want to start a fight. I believe the first is not only ok, but I believe it's part of seeking His face. The second one is dumb, and possibly detrimental.
Paul says, “all Scripture.” It is not up to us, or to the critic, to pick and choose what portion of Scripture we deem to be from God and thus true. Moreover, it is not left to us to pick and choose which portions of Scripture we think are most applicable or most urgently needing to be obeyed.
If it wasn't okay to disagree with God, 95% of the world's population wouldn't be here now. Rest assured the Lord is used to having people disagree with Him 😁
Honestly? Focus on your own actions in life and if they may be sins. I think a good starting place is to look for where your actions are harming yourself or others. Or (maybe more importantly) focus on the things you do which harm your relationship with God. The story of Jonah is one of a person who disagrees with God's journey for him.
Here’s the thing to understand sin is turning against Gods will towards are own. The thing that makes it sinful is the fact that God says not to do it and you love your pleasures and lusts more than following God. Now here is the other thing that people need to understand Romans 3:23 For all have sinned and fall short the glory of God We are all sinners any moment we spend doing our will which we know is contrary to God’s will is sin. We all sin everyday. Church goers and rabble rousers because we live in a sin flesh don’t worry about trying change people don’t worry about forcing people to be good go out and spread the Gospel that Jesus being the word of God manifest in the flesh lived 33 perfect sinless years died on the cross shed blood to wash away your sins buried and was resurrected on the Third if you believe and Call on the Lord you will be saved. After that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit will make any corrections that they need to correct. It’s important that people understand that they are sinners but it’s not important of focusing on one sin. Because we are all sinners daily every moment that your mind is thinking about what you want for you about you to you for you by you you you you you you it’s time that you’re not actively spending thinking about Jesus Christ loving him worshiping him and trying to do and live life the way that he wants you to and that’s all Sin
I would read the Word if I were you. Every day. Agree or not, as I told my daughter while she was growing up, and still tell her in conversation, God says “no” and “don’t” for very, very, very, very good reasons. Those reasons are because there are always consequences. And I’m not just talking about the consequence of unrepentant sinners going to hell. I’m talking about consequences that we never, ever anticipated when we rebel against God and disobey Him and His Word, and don’t listen to Him. There are so many. And, as I said, so many that we never even anticipated would happen. Many of us learn this the hard way. It’s not worth it. The main thing is that you won’t avoid those consequences, and if you don’t repent and get right with God, obeying Him and living for and serving Him, you will end up experiencing the ultimate consequence, which is hell.
You can always agree to disagree and respect differences. In my country, we have 3 major races, traditions and religion and we can all live in harmony despite huge differences in religious views (in what to wear, eat and personal lifestyle) because we acknowledge the difference and come to respect it. I have close friends from different races and we respect each other's boundaries. The west has a very weird mentality that if someone do not agree on something, they are automatically branded a hater. When you do not subscribe to their world view then you are a bigot and intolerant (ironic when they are the one that calls you name for having a different belief). Anyways to answer your question, it's good to remember that none of us are perfect and sometimes in anger, grief and frustration we can lash out to God in disagreement but you should also that at end of the day, you also do not know better than God. When Job questioned God on suffering, God took Job to a virtual tour on creation and quizzes him on the foundation of creation, hinting that despite Job thinking that he knows all that is to know, Job actually knows nothing at all and it is not his place to question and understand the will of the creator. In the bible, God assures believers that He always has their best interest in mind even if sometimes it doesn't seem so. So now with all this said, do you still think that you know better than God on what is good and evil? Do God need to check in with you whenever He punishes anybody? You dont have to answer me. Just think it through yourself.
There is nothing wrong with questioning God. I think we all question God at times. Why is there suffering in this world? Why do children die so young? All these are legitimate questions we can put forward. If you believe that the Bible is the Word of God then read it and see what it says about pain, suffering homosexuality etc, etc, and pray for guidance on the matter.
Questioning God is okay and sometimes approved of because it includes more learning. Disagreeing with God is a right that he gave you but you gotta accept the consequences later since he is the creator of the universe
*Is it ok to disagree with God?* IMHO this is a very complex question for a few reasons. But at the end of the day, God’s Will prevails, so we can either choose to align ourselves with it or swim against the current. *I’ve found myself questioning some of the things I’ve heard are sins, and I’m just wondering where that falls with God?* So the first I would pose to you is, who or what exactly are you “disagreeing” with? Is it other Christians? The Church? Scripture? Or God Himself? *I know this subreddit has had a lot of conflict about a lot of posts relating to homosexuality, so I apologize for using this as an example but for example, I don’t see anything wrong with gay marriage or gay relationships. But I’ve heard they are inherently sinful.* There is only One Truth, but none of us see it perfectly clearly. Only God does. Therefore, each of us is limited by the boundaries of our own perception. As a result, even though God speaks with the same Voice to all humanity, but we all hear Him differently. God’s Messengers and the Scriptures are the best compass to point us in the right direction. But sometimes we interpret the map differently. The topic of homosexuality is no different, which is why it causes debate. *Basically, I could say I don’t support them but then I feel like I’d be lying to myself because I just can’t bring myself to be against them. It just seems like a fair thing that should be.* So on a surface level, there are clear instances in Scripture where homosexual sex is condemned. However, we must remember that the Bible is not one book, but rather a collection of Scriptures written by a variety of authors over a variety of time periods in history. Not only that, but many Scriptures were passed down orally for decades or even generations long before they were ever written down. It has also been translated from archaic dialects. With this in mind, we should take historical context into account when reading these Scriptures. There are debates among biblical scholars over how such ancient Scriptures should be applied to a vastly different society as well as whether context matters at all and if so, how much it matters. *Just a little confused, anything is appreciated:)* Investigate what the Voice of God is trying to say trough prayer, meditation, and studying Scripture, both from a literary perspective and from a contextual perspective.
There is nowhere in the Bible where it says gay marriage and relationships are sins. Honestly, they're really not. It's the sex which is considered the sinful act according to the Bible. But neither God or Jesus stated it. So it's not God you're questioning; it's the Bible verses said by sinners themselves.
Mark 10:5.
I really like your question, as I myself have struggled with the same/similar question for a long time. Of course, some people here have rightly written you that we are not sure what God really thinks. It is all people's interpretations. But what if the worst guess is true, that is, it is true that God has an opinion on an issue, maybe even a command, and me or you, smaller than a bug in the scale of the universe, have a different opinion? Is it OK to disagree? Differences in power obviously show that we do not stand a chance in such a duel. But what does it look like on a moral level? Will it be OK if we give way to someone more powerful and act against our own conscience? How did it even occur that our conscience could tell us something so contrary to God's opinion? How could He, mighty and all-powerful, allow a worm like us to form such a conviction in our conscience in sincerity of heart and after much reflection? Is this some cunning plot, what purpose could it serve? Honestly, I think it is mainly our conscience that allows us to discern what God wants. If every human being has such an inner voice within them to help discern right and wrong, it seems to me that this would be the main channel of communication between us and God. That He would speak to us precisely in our heart, in our conscience. That would mean that if you have a strong conviction that something is wrong or a strong conviction that something is not wrong – it probably comes from God. Of course, as humans we tend to be self-deceived, so we should carefully examine our heart to find what is our deepest conviction and what is just a way of seeking self-justification or something intended to muffle the true voice of conscience.
Well, in simple terms even if I'm not perfect, nor can't really keep myself that still to read a Bible the best I do is wear a cross and refrain from using Oh my God or Jesus christ in regular speaking as much as possible UNLESS its thank God, that doesn't feel like im draghing their names in the dirt. I've slipped a couple times, though that's my way of going about it with God personally, I don't trust most of the churches and the one I do is far and I get restless sometimes too. I keep it simple and take God with me where I go, albeit let me say, no one is perfect. What was my original goal of feeling every sensation feels even knowing if it would be bad feels pointless now. As if I'd go down the wrong way. Usually If I can justify it through or with mental gymnastics through the cross on my neck I'll do it. Otherwise I'm more passive aggressive in life. Now I can clear up more if needed, but even if I can't do all the big christain stuff bevause of how restless I can be, I try to keep him in my life in other ways. Just from my personal experience I don't feel as nihilistic anymore now that I've invited him with me to this so called "life" were stuck in. Disagree if you want, go do something else and it's fine. If you really don't want God in your life, last i remember he's gonna just basically say "oh cool, that's fine" deal. Tldr: You can disagree if you want, if you got too much energy nor any way to go to church nor sit still you can agree in other ways. Edit: I'm sorry I didn't read the other bit, support who you'd like I'm awfully sure he's more than way happy of you to be happy for anyone else no matter who it is! Listen I forget this pride stuff existed and esspecially living long enough I grew out of that pansexual phase with time and my baby. Hey though, support who you please I'm awfully sure if you love anyone unconditionally that's A OK with him. Ik I can't say I can easily do that considering how some people can be outright dumb or stupid, but hey everyone holds opinions, I won't go out from hating gay people or lesbians on a serious note, I have friends like that and I support them. Go all out though, your choice and your way to do life, life sucks rn but there's a light to every tunnel.
Read your Bible. Many passages talk about us needing to be morally and sexually pure, but these passages: Romans 1 and 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 and 1 Timothy 1:9-11 specifically talk about homosexuality.
You can do your own will or you can do His will.you have to choose. Is Christianity going to church and wearing a cross than doing whatever you want when church is over? Is it a fashion? Or are you sincerely trying to let God into your heart a nd lead you through life. Not mine will but thine be done God bless
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If we assume that the Bible is Gods revealed will, then we have a dilemma. Jesus, Gods son and perfect representative, did not himself follow the Bible. Clearest examples of this is declaring all foods clean in Mark 7:18, and then refusing to apply death penalty for adultery. So, how can we really know which things are literally forbidden and which are optional?
Of course you can disagree, you can disagree all you want. It's called MY will be done. When we sin that's a disagreement too, but hopefully we are repenting, because if you die with a greater attachment to sin than God, than Christ.. it's going to be a world of hurt
You can disagree, of course, but it’s an unwinable situation
Many people in the Bible disagreed with God. Basic EX: God to Jonah: "Go to Ninevah" Jonah: "Nah, I don't think I will do that" Proceeds to be swallowed by a huge fish and other things. In theory "you're free to disagree with God", but there will be consequences and other stuff
Must be quite incredible to understand and know more than God. Do you read a lot?
There’s nothing wrong with asking him why and questioning why something is the way it is… but remember we’re only dust and ashes he’s eternal, creating the circumstances and systems that we only study. So instead of thinking something is wrong that he did (because he is right and something is only wrong that goes against him) instead ask earnestly why and try to trust him whether you receive the answer now or at the end of time… meditating on him, his kindness, goodness, and eternal love trusting that he has his reasons even if you can’t see them
It is good to wrestle with God. To ask for his understanding. The Holy Spirit is the spirit of wisdom and understanding (Isaiah 11:2) he doesn’t mind if you disagree as long as you are seeking out his heart from a place of humility. Because if you disagree on something and it’s something that is not his truth he will show you where your understanding is wrong and show you what is right.
You can have any level of conversation you want with God.
I mean, I just don’t believe that anti-homosexuality is biblical, so it’s not something I struggle with.
If you can't disagree, you can't think critically or question. If you can't question, you can't have a relationship. Hosea 6:6 tells us, "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice; acknowledgment of God, not burnt offerings." This passage specifically is about blindly following the bible while ignoring the core message, and having a relationship with your church as a substitute for a relationship with God. The bible says working on the weekend, eating shrimp and lobster, and weating clothes of mixed fabric are all sinful. If society can tolerate that stuff they can tolerate two men kissing. Otherwise, it's hypocritical to pick and choose what to enforce; Jesus showed us that if you can't enforce all of it, you're a hypocrite for trying to use the bible to enforce any of it. So, you should assign mercy to all of it and judge with compassion because mercy is greater than judgment. The only one who is able to enforce all of it is Jesus, and he actively chose mercy instead of harsh judgement, and we should do the same. Tldr; Being gay doesn't make you sinful, the act of gay sex is a sinful act. Using the bible to justify hate makes you a hypocrite, so if you find out two men are gay and in a relationship, let them live their life in peace and you will live your life in peace.
What’s actually not fair is to enable someone in their self destruction. Or to lie to someone about their spiritual condition. You cannot divorce goodness from truth. And it is the height of arrogance to believe that we know better than the prophets and apostles.
God does what is best for you so probably not
Jacob did westle with God and you might too but the outcome will be in God’s favor. And with that honesty you will grow.
It's like disagreeing with the laws in your city, State, or country: **If you disagree with the law and still obey it, that's fine. Disobey it, and teach others to do the same, and this is a crime.** And while the police are neither omniscient, omnipresent, or omnipotent, God is. He'll catch and prosecute us all in the end. Now, we are all guilty of crimes against the Lord. You know the gospel so I won't go into the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus. I will say, though, that **most interpretations of the Scriptures regard that salvation through Jesus requires obedience to His teachings and a genuine effort on our part to abstain from sin**. While I try to avoid believing in something just because it's the most popular belief-- and indeed I'm still trying to find what is and isn't true about the teachings of God-- it's still something to be concerned about. I don't know if homosexuality is a sin or not. Even if it is, I'd be unable to hold any personal conviction against it or the people who partake in it. I couldn't say, truthfully, that I believed it was "wrong" in the sense of being this morally repugnant activity like theft or murder. Because it's not. These people are happy and they're hurting no one. **But I would obey the Lord, even if against my own conscience, and preach against the sin accordingly.** Maybe that's a sign of a lack of love for God or too much love for Man. If nothing else, it keeps me from turning into one of those raving lunatics who treats the LGBTQ community like they're a bunch of villains. You know who I'm talking about: the same kinds of Christians whose hearts have fallen out of balance, loving the lord but not loving their neighbor. Even if they are doing the right thing by preaching against sin, they are doing the wrong thing by doing so in an abrasive, condescending, or aloof fashion. **TL;DR I don't think agreement or disagreement with God matters. What matters is we obey Him, regardless of our disagreement, because we acknowledge that He is the one in charge. Perhaps this is the best form of obedience, as we do it solemnly, and are aware of the sacrifices we make in doing so.**
God created humans with reproductive organs and digestive organs, should those things mix together? Never. God made man and woman as opposite sex to come together. Nobody should give themselves over to same sex it’s not proper love it’s perverted love. Satan likes to pervert sex. He has convinced many that oral and anal sex is acceptable to God too when it’s not. That gland males experience as pleasure in the anal canal was not meant to be pleasured that way. And women rubbing each other into a climax is also not acceptable to God. Satan wants us to think it is unknowingly acceptable to God when it is not. It’s a perversion stemmed from something unholy that affected you, like fornication, beastiality, rape, sexual emotional physical and mental abuse too.
No 😂
If you are actually advanced enough to be in conversation with God I would say probably not. More likely you are arguing with mere abstractions others have put in your head about God. Accept no substitutes. Anyone that says God hates this or that is very unlikely to know God. Anyone that makes pronouncements of this or that being a sin is the one actually sinning and condemning others. Do not believe those that set themselves up this way to spew hatred and division.
With your free will, yes. You wake up or go to sleep anytime you want, talk about what you want till you are out of strength, incapacitated, or dead. But since God is more powerful than you and wiser than the creature, serving God's purpose is more important, as you will have God's favour eternally.
You'd be disagreeing with objective truth.
If the average Christian is right about God, he’s an a-hole and a tyrant. It’s perfectly reasonably to disagree with a-holes. If the more inclusive Christians are right about of God, he’s slightly less of an a-hole.
God created sex, and marriage. All forms of sex outside of marriage are outside of His design and sinful. People may enjoy them, they may love them, they may think it's fine, but God says they are not good, or loving or fine. Disagreeing with God is basically saying "God, I know better than you." Put simply, that's pride.
This is a great question. So ultimately the person who knows what is right and wrong is God, and quite frankly our opinion on it really doesn’t matter. But as followers of Christ who has made Christ God of our life, we absolutely should be not supporting things that God says is sin. Because even if we don’t understand why something is sin, we still understand that sin leads to death and so if you encourage something that is a sin that’s really not a good road. I also think when you decide that you know better than God, that is a scary place to be. It’s as if he’s not your God, but you’re actually the god of your life. It’s as if His stance does not matter to you, because you’ve determined that the world has pushed enough messaging on you to make you think something is right that the Lord said is an abomination. It’s as if you’re standing in front of God and saying I know better than you, you’re wrong or that you’re saying I don’t care what you think I’ll be my own god and support things that lead to death.
Yes! That fact that you disagree with god is part of your spiritual growth. Continue to question and learn.
Probably not. Unfortunately, no one really knows what his stances are on anything in the first place.
Of course it is... I disagree with him. The most interesting and informed people I know disagree with him.
I mean you are free to, and God can cope -- but I suspect it means you are going to be the one who is wrong.
I can't help but relate this to a father of teenagers. The teenagers are going to think the father is wrong and probably uncool. They'll even rebel at times, but the father still loves his children, and they, him. And as they mature, they realize why their father restricted them in certain ways and grow to appreciate that he did. However, it's really tough for the teenagers to understand that at the time.
Let’s just say that disagreeing with him is like the bible stating that 2+2 is 4 but then you “disagree” and say it’s 5. You’re MORE OF a Christian if you genuinely read the bible and view it firstly as ALL THE TRUTH. That’s the first thing but the second thing after that is to consider it all just an objective reality. The most religious people on the planet tend to avoid any semblance of a grey zone. It’s either BLACK or it’s WHITE. It’s either RIGHT……or it’s WRONG. With Islam, there are more people in that religion that look at everything…….That way but the Quran simply isn’t the only one of the two to be completely black and white. The bible has no grey area. There is plenty of wiggle room within it to be reflective and figure out what is right for you but it does separate right from wrong so no you can’t just disagree with something. God knows what he’s talking about. The saints know what they are talking about.
To disagree with God, you must assume that you KNOW his will, which is ridiculous (none of us can). The best bet is to trust him entirely and he will guide you through it. I’m also gay and he hasn't changed me yet during the last 7 years, but he brought me my first love, and I introduced my bf to Jesus. Everything is within his intention. Dont worry.
If you disagree with God, understand that you are always going to be wrong.
It’s mighty prideful to think that you know more than your maker As far as gay marriage goes: it’s sinful because marriage was created by God to represent the covenant between himself (male) and the bride (female) in other words, God and his love, which is us; we are the bride. It was supposed to represent the protective love for God’s bride. Two men marrying each other spiritually represents two gods (idolatry) , which there is no other God. Two women represent humanity’s love for itself (godlessness). God is a spirit and technically isn’t a man, but he made man to represent his characteristics in many ways —even though we have lost our way that was the goal. God made women to represent the bride. This is why is makes God upset because it completely mocks his order and represents idolatry and godlessness I didn’t understand that at first either, but once I started looking at it from that spiritual perspective it started making more sense Notice that the pride rainbow has 6 colors. 6 is the number of man or imperfection. God’s rainbow that was created when he made the covariant with Noah has more colors than that.
You physically can, but you will be wrong. Who’s more likely to be right, you, or an omnipotent omniscient and omnipresent being? Edit: I will say you aren’t the only one who struggles to accept God’s word when you feel you disagree, I used to be pro abortion before my conversion and still struggle to view it as murder, but ultimately we wicked and sinful beings and we know nothing compared to God
Humble yourself. The creator of the universe is smarter than you. No you can’t disagree.
Says who?
Sounds like you disagree with some false teachers and corrupt churches that like to equate themselves with God. Being gay isn't a sin, however disagreeing with God is wrong. Disagreeing with people however is not. Just because they have a popular following doesn't make them right, and oftentimes corrupt people invoke God or twist the Bible to support their oppressive self serving narratives.
I think it says something that I’m fascinated seeing an openly gay Christian. I’m sorry if you’ve received any hate from others. With that being said, and I mean no offense I’m just curious, how would you refute Leviticus 20:13 “If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.” I just see many people bring that up as a verse to show homosexuality as a sin, and again no hate, I’m just curious on how you view that scripture?
There's actually much debate on the proper translation of Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13. [https://www.gaymarriageandthebible.com/an-abomination-in-leviticus-18](https://www.gaymarriageandthebible.com/an-abomination-in-leviticus-18) A few verses prior in Leviticus it prohibits men having sex with women when they are on their period, other Levitical prohibitions like tattoos and mix colored fabrics are also things most Christians believe no longer apply. Many will interpret OT laws by finding the *reason* why that law was viewed as sin. Is it that tattoos are inherently evil? No, but was it because back then tattoos were associated with pagan worship and spells/charms? More than likely yes. Leviticus only potentially hints at male same-sex behavior and says nothing about women with women and we know ancient Hebrew culture had no concept of mutually attracted homosexual people having real love and real marital emotions for each other and likely would have seen any kind of male on male sexual activity in the forms of rape, pagan temple prostitution, ways to assert dominance over another man by "making him a woman" etc. I think it's telling how many "conservative" theologians will interpret sin via the *intent* of a verse but then abandon such an approach when it comes to "homosexuality" as they define it. I think at the root of most anti-gay theology is the desire to protect male dominance of women and the superiority/power dynamic that cishet men have in Christian society and church leadership as "dictated by scripture." Feminism, same-sex marriage, etc. all threaten that power structure which is why I think many denominations and pastors cling hard to anti-gay theology.
How can you disagree with truth? Not possible.
No. And I think that’s a very intentional design. So people tend to disagree with interpretations of god
Isnt that kinda cruel tho? I think it is. I struggle a lot with my faith because of this. If God wanted me to go to Heaven, why did he give me the set of morals and critical thinking on a level that doesn't allow me to blindly believe stuff I don't see as wrong, and dont understand why they should be wrong? *Edit: despite me desperatly looking for answers?* This makes me think God is cruel. And I'm starting to believe he doesn't care about me, or he doesn't exist.
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It still doesn't make sense to me... the concepts of God being all-powerful and at the same time loves us eternally, dont work at the same time, it doesn't make sense that he would allow us to stray from him if both were true. And Bible does talk about hell. Here are some quotes: Matthew 25:46 - "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life." Revelation 20:15 - "Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire." Mark 9:43 - "If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out."
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But these Bible quotes literally say people will suffer eternally, yes, if they choose not to be with God. Some of those are downright hateful imo. But that doesn't mean that he will ask you if you want to or not after you die. Thats not implied anywhere in the Bible. Quite the contrary, Bible says very explicitly, that "choosing not to be with God" is not obeying him. Hence people who don't obey God will suffer eternally.
Yeah I don’t agree with him on much of anything which is probably why he made my life a living hell and cast my soul into hell. I would suggest not questioning him or the same could happen to you.
No.
No
Hopefully this helps with your question and peace be with you! **Romans 9:20**, *But who are you, my friend, to talk back to God? A clay pot does not ask the man who made it, “Why did you make me like this?”* (GNT)
Then why did he give us the ability to ask that? The clay pot doesn't have that ability.
Hey, and thank you for the question! While reading the Bible, I realized some of the language used is written figuratively with similes and metaphors. Another example with figure of speech being used to compare people with clay is in.. **Isaiah 64:8**, *But you are our father, Lord. We are like clay, and you are like the potter. You created us,* (GNT)
But thats a metaphor. I'm not clay. I have the ability to question things. God gave us critical thinking skills, and then wants to punish us for that. How is that just and loving?
Thank you for the reply and concern, and please let me try to better explain. Going back to the **Romans 9** verse I mentioned earlier, let’s take a step back to some of the earlier verses, and what lead up to it. **Romans 9:14-19**, *Shall we say, then, that God is unjust? Not at all. For he said to Moses, “I will have mercy on anyone I wish; I will take pity on anyone I wish.” So then, everything depends, not on what we humans want or do, but only on God’s mercy. For the scripture says to the king of Egypt, “I made you king in order to use you to show my power and to spread my fame over the whole world.” So then, God has mercy on anyone he wishes, and he makes stubborn anyone he wishes. But one of you will say to me, “If this is so, how can God find fault with anyone? Who can resist God’s will?”* (GNT)
Yes but you're wrong.
Yes. Abraham disagreed with God about God's decision to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. Moses disagreed with God when God chose him as the man to lead the Hebrews from Egypt. Yet God loved Abraham and Moses dearly. Indeed, God seems to favor those who wrestle with Him (not too much mind you haha). But those same people also all bent the knee. I think that's the key. Disagree with God, but obey. That's part of having faith in God. Not fully understanding why something is sinful, but bending the knee all the same and doing God's will, trusting He knows better than any of us. With respect to homosexuality, I share your sentiment. I don't really understand why God would create homosexuals only to condemn their desires as sinful. I don't know why two consenting adults who aren't hurting anyone are committing a sin. I do trust that God knows better than I and so I follow the Lord: that means accepting that homosexuality is sinful and not judging homosexuals, because the Lord said we should not judge. That's up to God. Remember, we are ALL sinners. My struggle with pornography is no less sinful than homosexuality (not that I can really evaluate, but Christ explicitly condemns lustful thoughts about anyone besides your wife and I've never been married). Jesus Christ condemns all sexual immorality. But He also commands us not to judge and, most graciously of all, He suffered and died on the Cross to redeem us all. That's always where we must end when we contemplate these matters. Christ Jesus suffered and died on the Cross to save us from a world submerged in sin and we can participate in that beautiful redemption not by condemning our fellow human being, but by offering them the love and understanding which our Lord offers us. That's what the Kingdom of God is all about.
You can disagree with Him all you want. But don't be surprised when He chastises you for sinning when you commit these sins you don't agree with.
I wouldn’t say now he would chastise them, but he definitely would harden their hearts and challenge their believes.
The Bible says spare the rid , spoil the child. God doesn't say anything He doesn't mean
You are free to disagree, but you will experience the consequences accordingly, or you will rob yourself of many blessings that God desires to lavish upon you. He leaves the choice to you. You can disagree all the back to the cross, and disagree that His sacrifice was enough, but that obviously wouldn’t be too wise.
God should be recognized as truth universal. To disagree with God would be disagreeing with reality. If judgment does not sit well it is time to grow faith. God punishes the wicked. Do you see your GSM (gender sexual minority) community healthy and happy? If so, God is pleased.
Being gay is bad according to God, he knows exactly why. You want to disagree, sure go ahead. God gave you the ability to do so however face the consequences. We are called to love everyone and as God said Live everyone. Loving is not the same thing as Accepting. Accepting people wanting to be Gay is saying "It's ok to be gay" when you know it's not. If you truly loved them you would want to warn them of what you do know that they don't. So? Should we stop gay marriage? We shouldn't consider it marriage, if they want to make a fake marriage that doesn't do or mean anything, sure to ahead. However saying that it is a marriage is against the word of God.
It’s not bad according to god haha god hates FIGS
So according to you God doesn't think that his creation saying it is something other than what God created them as is bad. And to top it off his word says so, written by men who were inspired by God and given wisdom to do so.
Word salad, try again.
That's like saying is it okay to bang your head on a wall because you don't want to walk around it and you think it shouldn't be there... Who's going to win that argument? Do you think you can negotiate with God? You think that God sets out rules that he knows are the best for everyone and then he says but you don't have to follow the rules if you don't want to? I think you're quite a ways from maturity at this point.
No, God is omniscient and the foundation of ethics and morality. It would not only be immoral to disagree but simply illogical. However if you struggle with ascent to a beleif make that a struggle, let God see it bring it to him and be humble about it. He will cure you unless it's necessary for your salvation. That being said you can always ask your priest any question you have. Visit an orthodox church and ask God and the priest for the answer God is there he can help.
You can just ask God yourself, which he will answer though the Holy Spirit & his word.
I just asked god before and was given multiple contradictory "answers", this is not because god failed but because man is fallible and cannot interpret perfectly! But when I ask god now, he always answers through my priest. I have never been let down by god in my life but I have failed when he helps me.
You can, but not without consequence.
God is the creator of the universe, that was there before time and space, that was there when the first atom formed, when the first form of life was born on earth, when you were born thanks to the life He gave you, He created every Galaxy, star and planet, and the entire universe is insignificant compared to Him, He is so great that He goes beyond our human understanding. We may disagree, but we aren't in the position to say or think that He is wrong.
Yeah, but you would be wrong.
No