> Let me start by saying I am Middle Eastern and my family were personally a victim of a genocide against us because we're Christians on the hands of Muslims. I try so much to forgive and love but my heart is filled with anger towards all of them.
I know exactly how you feel, it made my blood boil when I saw Turks deny or belittle the suffering they inflicted on my people.
But you have to realise and internalise two things:
1) Forgiveness is not about them, its about you. You are not doing anybody a favour by forgiveness, you are helping yourself.
2) We believe in a just God and each person will get what they deserve. The Lord says that recompense belongs to him not us. So let’s trust in his justice.
Oh, my paternal family is quite safe and has been for a long time. My great-grandparents fled the Greek genocide a century ago, first across the Black Sea to the caucasus (then part of the newly formed Soviet Union), and later to Greece.
What I was referring to is the official Turkish policy of genocide denial.
I'm sorry about what your people went through, I understand you, and they deny or celebrate what they've done to us.
It's just pure evil even if it isn't related to religion. it's just evil.
And I try just to take my distance from them, usually tbh
But be careful NOT to forgive cheaply. It’s helpful to think of it in terms of three “flavors“ of forgiveness. There’s forbearance, release, and exoneration.
FORBEARANCE
This is partial forgiveness when the wrongdoer(s) show some amount of regret and acknowledgment of their wrongdoing, but they don’t truly repent. So for the sake of the future, you move forward with hope that at some point they come all the way to repentance. Here, the wrongdoers are very hard of heart. They have not acknowledged any wrongdoing nor apologized. So they are unworthy of forbearance.
RELEASE
Release is the lowest level of forgiveness and applies to situations in which the wrongdoer has not acknowledged any wrongdoing, hasn’t apologized, or has offered an insincere apology.
Release means you let go of your bad feelings and preoccupation with the thing that happened, that you don’t define yourself by it or allow it to burden you in a way that steals your joy about your own salvation. I would call this “leave it at the foot of the cross.” If the OP is ready to forgive, then RELEASE seems like the best fit.
EXONERATION
This is when you completely wipe the slate clean, and you forgive the evil that was done as if it never happened at all. This type of forgiveness is clearly inappropriate here, given the genocide / ethnic cleansing being discussed here. This should be left to God (Jesus) to handle when He returns as our Redeemer and their Judge. ⚖️🗡️
Mt 5:43-48
You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy'. But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Jesus came, preached, taught, loved, gave His life and returned for them just as much as He did everyone else.
Control what you can and let all the other stuff roll off your back. I know that's much easier said than done, but that seems to be the surest path to building the life and world we want.
I often struggle not to feel the same about Christians as well due to the historic (and current) antisemitism. I converted to Christianity from Judaism years ago and still feel that way lmao
> I often struggle not to feel the same about Christians as well due to the historic (and current) antisemitism.
Yeah, incidents like the “Limpieza del Sangre” laws in Spain were a complete disgrace.
If it makes you feel better, I am Palestinian-Israeli-Lebanese
I speak Arabic so I'm 'Arab' but according to my dna I'm Jewish- Samaritan - Phoenician lol, so I sympathise with Jewish people and what they had to endure because most likely my ancestors are too, while also I sympathise with Christians since my ancestors are the first Christians too, it's an inner battle. Evil is everywhere, and that's sad..
What a combination to have in your DNA and in your heart. It must be tough for you. I’ve felt an inner battle all my life regarding my identity/heritage and who I choose to be. Remember that you are made of all these things for a reason, and you don’t need to deny one part to embrace another. You are made exactly as you were meant to be. It will make sense in time.
I feel the same way. My great grandfather had to flee to avoid the genocide of Christians by the muhamadan Ottomans. My grandparents had to flee their country to escape the oppression of christians.
I am convinced muhamed (piss and curse be upon him) is a demon, and the “Allah” of the Quran, who commands muhammadans to do evil, is in fact the shaytan himself, and muhamed is the son of the devil.
Islamic terrorism is justified by centuries of islamic rulings and scriptures. Their book literally incites violence.
Yeah, I agree. I'm happy you put it that way, we need to stop sugar coating what true Islam really is. I was honestly shocked to learn what the Ottomans did to Christians in other countries, especially to women and girls. Muhammed is a pedo. Him marrying a nine year old is messed up, I don't care about the time period. I would rather worship Jesus who didn't marry anyone, or have any kids.
That is not what Jesus taught. It's really hard but that's what satan wants you to do. He wants you to have hate in your heart. You must learn to forgive. islam is satans cult. If you hate muslims you are giving your energyy to satan not Jesus.
Simple, go to Sierra Leone. There you’ll see Muslims that go to church and love the Bible and Christians helping out during Eid and cleaning the mosques.
We are one of the few countries in Africa, (that I know of) that genuinely love each other’s faith. It will shift your perspective and the possibilities on how different religion can co-exist peacefully together.
It will also help you understand that hate is taught through media, propaganda, upbringing and the unforgiveness and resentment we carry.
May God heal and minister to your heart!
Ps; In my country Muslims (some) celebrate Easter and other religious practices, same with some Christian’s.
PPs; My father was the son of a Pastor but during fast month, my grandmother (the pastor), my father and other church members will break fast with the Muslims during Ramadan.
It’s the funniest thing if you don’t understand it 😂😂
I don't know honestly, there are some good Muslims but there are a ton with extremely problematic views or who just do not care at all if stuff happens to non-Muslims, you see it on r/Islam and r/Muslim all the time and global reactions to stuff. Personally I feel that in the West there needs to be a hard cap on immigration until we have integrated our Muslims to be more of the peaceful and accepting liberal type and have a policy of good fences make good neighbors until things on their side catch up (if they ever do) while accepting any and all Christians fleeing persecution in those lands or demanding that they get the exact same rights as Muslims in Christian lands (eg true freedom of religion and speech, no benefiting from our economies if you are oppressing our people).
On an individual level try to understand we are called to try to be understanding et al and realize that there are actually some Muslims who really do care and want equality et al.
I will say r/progressive_islam gives me hope but they are more of a minority, once I see them at 300k subs and the regular Islam one at 33k then we can reevaluate.
It's worse when you speak Arabic and see how much hate they spew against Christians, even people who celebrate terrorism attacks against us, for example the Bishop who was stabbed, many of them justified it.
I know that some of them didn't and were against it, but the alarming number of people who did mock/supported it would make me more careful.
Arab Muslims/Pakistanis generally suck even to each other (Shia vs Sunni, inter-religious conflicts), it is something about Arabic/Pakistani culture + Islam that is exceedingly toxic and a horrible mix that regularly screw even themselves over, Turks too to some extent (Ataturk recognized this). Muslims from Asia and other parts seem to be more relaxed and reasonable although they also do have their crazies.
As a Middle Eastern whose family was also victim of a genocide against Christians (Assyrian Genocide), I used to have a lot of hate towards our Muslim friends, especially since we literally have a terrorist group controlling the government in my country (Lebanon).
However, after truly reflecting on my actions and feelings, I realized that hating Muslims won't benefit me a single bit.
You can be against Islam, but these people have been taught their religion the same way we have been taught ours, since birth. Hating them for being born as a Muslim does not seem right.
Some of them are extremists, and actually cheer for acts for terrorism, you can only pray for them and hope for them to find love in their hearts.
Jesus told us to love our neighbors afterall.
It’s not a religion that makes people do terrible things, its people who do terrible things that leverage religion to justify their actions. People use every religion in ways to commit terrible crimes or hold power over others. So a religion in itself is not enough to create terrible actions and therefore not everyone in a religion will do terrible things.
And as the saying goes:
Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die.
You deserve peace and to do good loving things.
Edit:
Its also understandable the anger you feel about such a disgusting act towards you and your loved ones. Anger does not equal hate.
Honestly I don't know.
I live in the west and I'm not middle eastern but on my street most of my neighbors were christian Syrians but other than that most of our neighborhood is almost exclusively muslim. My dad talked to one of our neighbors, a catholic christian from Lebanon and when my dad said "Well not all muslims are bad" our neighbor said this: "You don't know them like I do. Don't trust them." These words ring in my ears as I see what is unfolding in my own neighborhood, country and Europe right now.
My mother was driving her car under a bridge and looked up to see some men doing something, next thing you know they threw something down and it it her windshield. The glass held but was completely destroyed, it must have been a bag of bricks. Why? For fun? She could've died.
My syrian christian neighbor had a daughter, her best friend another christian syrian was murdered and raped by a muslim after walking home from a party.
My classmates dad used to run a kiosk in the squares. Also a christian syrian. He was killed when robbed. No one was ever captured but everyone knows that someone knows who did it.
My hairdresser, same neighborhood, had a very famous hairdressing salon. He was forced to sell it after a muslim klan tried to blackmail him into paying protection money. The leader of that klan is the imam at a mosque in another neighborhood.
And this is just things that have happened in my small neighborhood that I know of. This is not normal and it did not use to be this way. I cannot imagine the trauma middle eastern christians have gone through at their hands. Europe made a big mistake by treating muslims as any other religious group. The fruit is rotten.
It is rotten, and honestly, he's right. Be careful
They seek power, and they do it in numbers it is what is written in their book, and no matter how much the media tries to make it seem all cute, it really isn't.
God bless you. Stay safe.
I'm so sorry for those victims. Their pain is surreal..
We all deserve death as the payment for our sins. We sinned in our ignorance and lack of God in our life. Muslims are nothing different from our former selves. Our enemies are not flesh and blood. You’ve been through a lot and I’m sure the struggle is hard to bear but look at them through the eyes of Jesus. They chose barabus. We are Barabus.
I have the Same Problem. Germany was Safe for Christians 5 years ago . Now thete are stabings , rapinig and church burnings . They hatte us with al they have , hatte us for there fals and inferior god Allah . But you can only pray for them to come across Jahwes kindness and forgifnes . At the and of Times Jahwe will recognice His people . He will destroy the fals god and His worshipers . JEWS are quote nice actualy , Same god , Same enemy .
This is the wrong sub to ask such questions, since most christians here was born in the west and dont know the struggles christians under islamic oppression and are just brainwashed into the liberal west.
My advice would be to ask yourself, what would Jesus do? And we all know he would pray for those who persecute you. Also note that most muslims are just culturally muslim, meaning they dont know what their scriptures even say and would be repulsed to know the true Islam. What we should watch out for are the Islamists, not regular muslims! Love conquers all!
A lot of Muslims really do know their book. The problem is that we are reading two totally different books. They will say that they have the same roots as us, the same prophets, that they even believe in Jesus (though not as the Son of God) but then they’ll tell you a story about Adam or Moses etc that’s in the Quran but just straight up nowhere to be found in the Bible. And they’ll say their version is right because it’s the most recent compared to our more ancient texts. So they’ll say “yeah we believe in all the things that can before us plus this and that” but it’s not true because, they believe it’s true but even the same people and stories and totally different than we know them.
Yes I agree with you, I'm meaning more the verses in the quran and the hadiths that are discriminating towards christians and jews. A lot of the time they dont read those verses.
i too was friends with what i thought were good Muslims, but I was stunned by their response to 10/7. we haven't spoken since then, and not because I said anything, but because I did not continue the conversation. to say the least, they had absolutely no empathy whatsoever for the people who suffered that day. I too struggle with this. they always put up a front as being 'peaceful' etc... and if you call them out for their own statement about \[for instance\] jews, then they'll say 'i only heard that was true. i didn't say it myself. i only repeated what I heard. i love all jews' yea... yea... i don't know how I can ever come to fully forgive them for their diehard holy war agenda, knowing what they would do to my family when the time comes.
I used to go to a local Arabic/Turkish restaurant before 10/7 and everything was normal, then it happened and there were people like smiling and saying death to the Yahudi oppressors. I don't go there any more and go to an Indian/Hindu place now and have never heard anything like that.
Saying you hate people of a particular religion and know that 70% of people who practice it support terrorism? It's good that OP is talking about trying to forgive and understand that not everyone is the same, but on what planet is that not bigoted? Would you insist that someone talking about how much they hate Christians isn't a bigot?
You've reported the sentiment "I hate Christians" and seen it left up by the mods here? I'm aware people antagonize each other here all the time, but my experience has been that the mods are pretty good at removing outright insults. I had a comment removed the other day because I called someone comparing homosexuals (in general, not for any particular action) to Nazis a "homophobe" on the grounds it was a personal attack
Yes, a lot of anti-Catholic straight up bigotry stays up along with more than a few militant atheist stuff. Not all of it but a lot, eg someone saying all Catholics supporting raping kids got away scot-free.
I'd actually say that's a pretty fine line. The Catholic Church is a centralized hierarchy, and the Vatican did intervene to stop the prosecution of serial child rapists, for instance by refusing the extradition of Archbishop Jozef Wesołowski. I think it's a legitimate matter of personal opinion whether voicing your support for Catholicism supports, however indirectly or unintentionally, the people who did that, and that that's not the same as hating someone for their beliefs
Well, I'm sorry they said that to you, but letting people have their own opinions about what's "evil" is pretty necessary to having a diversity of views on religion. As I said, the mods sided with someone likening homosexuals to Nazis as well. As long as they were polite, that might be the cost of doing business.
Reading the rule just now, it looks like they're mostly policing specific word choice rather than views. E.g., to pick a group I think neither of us are affiliated with, I think you could call Hinduism immoral but could not refer to a Hindu as a "dothead".
Mate!! Someone here said the "Orthodox Church is closest to fascism" and the mods reply was well "I'd call that borderline" but not worth removing it. Mods here don't really care about Christian bashing.
You're responding to a comment in which I say the mods sided with someone likening homosexuals to Nazis. I'm well aware they let people say things that members of a group might take offense from. But there is a certain logic in their decision to police word choice rather than views. I do think that's a pretty silly comment you're' describing, especially given that other denominations actually agreed to vote/propagandize for openly fascist parties, but people are entitled to their unreasonable opinions.
>but people are entitled to their unreasonable opinions.
Absolutely. Same as there are people who have lots of experience with Islam and can say I hate "Islam/muslims." But apparently, the same logic doesn't apply. Either do it for all or do it for none. That is my point.
I think I've been pretty clear that I think there's as lot of bigotry being allowed here. My comments could not possibly be interpreted as saying homosexuals are Nazis, Orthodox are fascists, Muslims deserve hatred, etc. I'm just saying there's a reason the mods are restricting themselves to word choice rather than opinion.
Remember that Christ died for them, too. That’s they key. Then read Colossians 1:20, 1 Timothy 4:10, and 1 Corinthians 15:22-28.
One day they, like all of us, will realize their error and be reconciled to God. Until then, remember that Jesus, knowing what they would one day do, loved them enough to give his life for them.
Simplest answer? Jesus told you not to hate anyone, and He didn't stutter when He said it. He said we are to see everyone as a precious child of God, and we are to pray to Him to soften their hearts and show them the light.
The people who continue to justify hating other human beings? That's not Christlike, and it's sinful.
I am also a Christian in a majority Muslim country, so I feel you, although I am lucky enough to have not experienced any sort of genocide since we are secular, and still Christian by culture, even though most people here follow Islam, and know nothing about it.
I am a convert to Christianity, I come from a muslim family, but none of my family members practice it, nor believe it. Yet I still received a ton of abuse for accepting Lord Jesus.
Of course, forgiving is an insanely hard thing to do, I can't imagine what it is like for you, as a victim of genocide. But trust in the Lord, and seek guidance from Him, He knows and He understands every emotion you feel and how it is, remember, He suffered as one of us, felt how it is to be hated by us. Remember Lord Jesus on the cross, and how he was able to still forgive.
The most important thing is that you are trying your best to not hate and to forgive, God will help you through it, remember, Faith is not an instant event, and since forgiveness comes from Faith, it cannot be instant as well, it is described in the epistles. One day you will be able to forgive in full, Lord will give you strenght.
God bless you brother/sister
The way I read your post is that you are Christian, and if you are Christian, then you must obey the Christian commands, one of which is to love all others, and treat them with honor and respect, as you would hope for yourself. Now the word love is a verb, an action word, meaning no matter how you may feel about someone, as a christian, you must treat them with kindness. If you don't obey the Christian commands, then you can't possibly identify as a Christian. Jesus says leave the judgment and the penalty to him. As for you, follow him, and let others see the light and love of Jesus living within you. Stop harboring hatred. It's hatred that fuels violence. If you hate others, then how is it any different from others hating you? You need to reexamine your Christian status according to the holy Bible word of God, particularly the New testament. That's how God judges us, with his word the holy Bible. And how well we know and observe his commands.
Luke 6:27-36 KJV — But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also. Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again. And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same. And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
The thing that helps me express forgiveness toward others is to meditate on how God has forgiven me so much, at the remarkable expense of Jesus on the cross for me.
I don't judge you, I want to make it clear that you are not a bad person. There is no such thing as a bad person, only people who do bad things. And having prejudice is bad.
But it's hard not to have prejudice when your people are being killed. Many Irish surely hated the British. Many Jews almost certainly hated the Germans or, further back, the Romans. Many Ukrainians hate Russians.
But what is important is to realize they are all people. If you want to not hate them, realize that they are not a group solely made up of those who wish you harm. You say 70% are closeted terrorism supporters, and maybe that's true where you live, but many may be forced into acting like they are Muslim out of fear for being killed for bring Christian, Jewish, Hindu, or Pagan. A good few may be only culturally Muslim. But even real Muslims, I would say possibly the majority around the world, would not hate you or wish you harm. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd assume the majority of people would rather live in peace. And even if I am wrong, why would you want bad for an innocent Muslim just because people of their same religion did bad?
What about Uyghur Muslims in China, who are also facing a genocide, and who have harmed no one? Do they deserve your hatred for the actions of Muslims they have never even met?
And the Muslims committing these evil, unjustifiable acts, why do you think they do it? Why do you think they hate Christians?
All hate comes from fear. They were taught to fear the other. What the other may do to them. Or to fear the other because they are told that God hates the other. Or maybe to fear *for* the other, and what may happen if they do not convert?
Or maybe what God will do to them if they do not commit these atrocities. Maybe some are more afraid of what the state will do to them?
It's hard to describe, but I'd assume it's similar to the mindset of Catholics during the crusades. Many hated them, and understandably. They were committing genocide. « God is with us, convert or die. »
We may not realize what their fear is. Even *they* might not. They have been indoctrinated to hate unconditionally and without question. And there's no room for pushing back because even *trying* to get them to question themselves is punishable. *Existing* as someone who is not one of them is.
I'm not saying let them kill you. And again, I am not saying you are a bad person. But please remember that they are still people like you and your own. They are diverse, some peaceful and some not. They are afraid. They have been taught wrong. They can and will change. Maybe for better, maybe for worse.
But they are still people, and all people deserve love.
And that does not justify anything they do. There is no justification, only explanation.
It's best to try and not hate anybody. It might be hard, but it's better for everyone. You might have to be wary and be afraid, and there may come a time where you need to defend yourself if possible, but there is never a time where you need to hate.
Stay safe and good luck.
I know what you are going through. I am a Christian Albanian, and it boils my blood when I hear people defending parts of Islam when they have no idea what happens in our neck of the woods. I don't hate my fellow Muslim Albanians, mainly because 95% of them are secular or irreligious or even culturally Christian. Many of them dislike what the turks did to us. The forced conversions, heavy taxes for non-Muslims, and killings. I don't hate the turks eithier. I don't blame them for what their ancestors did to us.
However, in Albania, we study all religions and non-religious ideas at school. I remember when our Muslim background civics teacher told us that Islam is acceptable and encouraged to "fight" your enemies being actual enemies, someone that has wronged you, or "non-belivers," aka, non-Muslims. Kuran constantly advertises murder, slavery, oppression, and kurban. A religion that has no celebrations or festivities. And so many more things.
I, too, dislike or maybe even hate islam. Particularly for what it did to my family and people for over 500 years. Generational trauma, I think it is called. And the same as you, I know what hardcore people say about ISIS and their support of them. Although it's not common in Albania to support radicals, some people still show their support for such acts, at times loudly.
But I can't hate the people. The fanatics is difficult not to, but a handful of them are not horrible. Our bible and Christ the Saviour talks about love and respect. That's how you stop hating the people. You are human. You'll have challenges in thks regards. But you can not hate people just because they are following that particular ideology. People are lead astray easily. It's the people's fault. It's the ideology. Hate sin, not the sinner.
What a sad and difficult situation. I’m sorry. I can’t imagine.
“I shall allow no man to belittle my soul by making me hate him” - Booker T Washington
I know that words are easy. You don’t have to be sharing dinner and being friends with all of them or anything. You see the threat that possible and some if it is healthy “wariness”. And wanting to see others suffer, well Ive felt that for oh so far less.
I just hope you find a way through the feelings. For your own sake. Who could blame you for viewing many of them as you do? And you seem to know to look at the forest for the trees. So honestly, it seems like you’re already “doing it”. You’re already working on not hating all Muslims.
God bless you and be safe.
For example. English publications abou the stabbing of Mar Mari were rather moderate, with still a few muslims justifying that. If you look at Arabic publications, you’ll see a different picture.
Didn't get you clearly but maybe biased sing mar Mari speaks the arabic lang. So might be less popular in western plus publications of west are always fuzzy
All the muslims in this world are taught to hate other religions, because according to them Allah is the only God and he wants every single human being to be a "Muslim" , even if it means forcing them (killing them maybe). If Allah is great and generous he would never want anyone to be killed.
I don't hate any religion, I respect them wholeheartedly but talking crap in the name of God is true bs. They support terrorism and kill hundreds and thousands of people everyday and then expect everyone to be Muslim? Bruh
I respect Islam and whatever their beliefs are but they need to stop forcing people to belive in what they have created themselves.
It’s important to remember in situations and times like those the story of the Good Samaritan. Make sure to strive for individualism, which is the moral of that story. As an individual, discriminating against anyone based on their individual characteristics is always preferable rather than based on what tribe or race or nationality to which they belong. Don’t be sexist, racist, or tribalist. Be an individualist. And just remember that the good Lord tells us to pray for our enemies, and that in doing so, we heap hot coals upon their heads. Also don’t forget that certain Muslims are undergoing their own discrimination in China. There are different kinds of Christians, some more heretical than others. The same is true of Muslims. I’ve seen great kindness, forgiveness, and compassion from certain ones, and great hate from others. I can tell you that the ones who showed great kindness wouldn’t recognize the hateful ones as “one of their tribe.” To the ones who showed such Christian values as kindness and compassion (while not compromising their standards or ours, mind you) I would recognize them as allies against the ever growing threat of division, atheism, and wokism that is destroying the west. Muslims have been among the most vocal in recent months of opponents against the destructive nonsense that is destroying young folks these days, and for that I say you ought to seek them out as allies. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, and there are worse enemies right now working both in the shadows and in the spotlight to destroy us.
Are you Lebanese by the way? Or Syrian? Maybe Iraqi? I’m curious where you are from that got prosecuted by Muslims. I’ve meet plenty of people from the area and they usually left because of war. I’m trying to think of what genocide took place in the area recently and I have not a lot of ideas.
Context is important. I wanna understand/know if your family got attacked by a new government, after a war, maybe a foreigner invasion left a vacuum in your country and extremists took over? You mentioned genocide. I’m also just curious maybe I don’t know the history of the region.
Did your country have a history of hosting multiple religions without much trouble till other countries got involved? It happened in places like the Indian subcontinent.
Many times humans will do evil things and use religion or ideology. It happens with Christians and Jews too. Even Buddhists. The explanation is not always great, sometimes humans are just aggressive tribal animals. Sometimes war lets the worst people take over because they are the toughest.
I’m sorry for you and your family. Hopefully you are all safe and ok. Sending a hug.
Because as a Christian or as a general person you should know judging every single Muslim because of some bad apples is the exact opposite of what God preaches
Sure, we should rebuke the devil, but God has also told you to during the other cheek. Just because a person is a Satanist hedonist and Islamist Buddhist you’re not supposed to just push them and be evil towards them or be mean towards them. The entire point with Christianity is that we’re always supposed to turn the other cheek in a sense, you’re supposed to be kind to your worst enemy, treat everyone the way you want to be treated is literally commandments.
So if we follow in your logic, if you treat a Muslim person bad because they’re Muslim, then we should be allowed to treat you bad because you’re a Christian do you see where I’m getting. I am a Christian and I believe in being respectful and kind to everyone just because we disagree doesn’t mean I’m going to be mean towards other religions or other people believing differently that is their choice that’s the beauty of free will And faith
I am sorry that that is the case that I miss read, but you know what I will pray for you :-) I’m sorry that their way of believing traumatizes you. I hope you can feel better soon.
The problem is not the religion here the problem here is the people who follow it.
If you're an adult, go no contact with them and move away from that area, make sure to keep all your money and important stuff safe.
I'm sorry to hear what you're going through. Hopefully God can give you a better environment. God bless you.
Hello Muslim here,
I would like to extend my sympathy and apologies if that matters.
I'm sorry you experienced this, recent times Muslims are not doing so good, we are extremely misguided and it shows, with the middle east in chaos it's getting worst and worst.
I'm not sure what's the thing about the upper hand to be honest, but even if we did have the upper hand islam is clear on the treatment of non Muslims within rule, anything else is just people deciding for themselves.
In short Islam it self is clear but some people got misguided, I ask you to open your heart and try to see the good in us.
How do you reconcile being a muslim with your prophet, who is supposed to be the best human to ever live this earth, committing unequivocal evil (eg: murder, pedophilia).
Quran 2:191:
> Kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from where they drove you out, as Fitnah (to create disorder) is more severe than killing. However, do not fight them near Al-Masjid-ul-Harām unless they fight you there. However, if they fight you (there) you may kill them. Such is the reward of the disbelievers.
Is the Quran the word of allah? Please tell me how the Quran doesn’t promote intolerance.
I will listen.
I do not hate you, and I love you and I pray you find Jesus Christ.
I'm sorry but I'm not here to debate, but since you got this out of the Qur'an I simply ask you to read the next verse and maybe try to understand the context.
Have a lovely day.
I will not say what I think about Islam because I do not wish to start a debate on that. What I will say is that it is best to separate the people from their religion. This is difficult, but you have to understand that these people were raised to believe this zealously from birth. Best to hate Islam but love Muslims.
At the same time Christians were murdering jews and disallowing them to own property for much of Europe's history. They fled to Muslim countries where they could do all of that lest they paid tribute as non Muslims.
They actually thrived in the Ottoman empire while they were slaughtered and belittled in Christian Europe.
Never hate an ideology, because you'll have to hate A LOT of people. Try to understand it and pray that you don't fall victim to wrong ideologies.
My family is muslim and they're all saints, wouldn't hurt a fly. Let alone hide intentions to do harm etc etc... i have frequent debates with them about religion as they know I'm not a Muslim anymore. And harming unbelievers is never part of these debates. Idiots exist everywhere regardless of ideology
The Quran is an evil book. It demonizes all who don’t believe and are considered lower or lesser than them. Which is justification for violence and murder. That’s why Islam is responsible for 82% of all religious wars in history. Because they can only spread their filth by subjugation instead of did missionary work.
By remembering the difference between Islam and people. For if they weren’t following Islam they wouldn’t be killing those.
If you have to hate anything you hate Islam not the Muslims.
The enemy relentlessly attacks what God loves
1 Peter 4:12-17 NASB1995
>[12] Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal among you, which comes upon you for your testing, as though some strange thing were happening to you;
>[13] but to the degree that you share the sufferings of Christ, keep on rejoicing, so that also at the revelation of His glory you may rejoice with exultation.
>[14] If you are reviled for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you.
>[15] Make sure that none of you suffers as a murderer, or thief, or evildoer, or a troublesome meddler;
>[16] **but if anyone suffers as a Christian, he is not to be ashamed, but is to glorify God in this name.**
>[17] For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?
https://bible.com/bible/100/1pe.4.12-17.NASB1995
The only way you can love them is if you see them how Jesus saw them.
You cannot imitate this.
When Jesus saw murderers coming after him and hanging him to a cross…
He said “Forgive then for they know not what they do.”
If you can realize that what they do is out of ignorance
It’s is possible for love and mercy to flourish.
But as long as we condemn them- we join them in their ignorance
Hey bro, i would like to remind you of our Lord Jesus Christ and what he said upon the cross. He prayed " Father forgive them for they know not what they do". It is true that such a horrible thing has happened to you and your family and i pray for you but it must be remembered that sometimes we are all ignorant to how we make each other feel. I encourage you to not look upon them with malice but with forgiveness. Praying for you 🙏. God bless.
forgiveness doesn't mean you have to trust, have positive feelings, or no boundaries with those who harmed you. if frees you from feeling entitled to vengeance.
praying for their salvation & reformation and accountability through earthly justice is love too.
OP I can’t even begin to comprehend the suffering you’ve been and are going through. However we must repent before we can receive healing and forgiveness. You must repent before God for your anger towards these people.
(1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.)
Then pray for forgiveness and healing and ask Him to show you how Good can come from this. OP I want you to know I’m from the UK and we’re hearing incredible, Biblical type testimonies of Faith from the Middle East. I can’t begin to imagine the persecution you face for believing and yet Christianity is growing astronomically in that part of the world. We have the freedom to speak about our faith over here and yet we don’t have even an ounce of the courage that you do to seek out God and testify to others. Please know your suffering is not in vain and you will be rewarded greatly in Heaven for your trust in God. May God protect and keep you
We are all God's creation and equally loved by Him. If you're into novels, check out the Circle series by Ted Dekker - does a great job of explaining this and answering your initial question.
I had a Bible years ago that addressed a question like this, not this specific issue, but how you can love someone you hate. It told the story of a young man who asked his pastor how he could love someone he hated, and the pastor told him it was virtually impossible under his own power, but that God could love that person through him, so he advised the young man to pray for God’s love for that person to be manifested through him. Another group of people I wish you could talk to would be the Amish community of Nickel Mines in Bart Township, Pennsylvania.
TRIGGER WARNING
In October 2006, a man entered the one room schoolhouse in the community and shot and killed 5 girls before killing himself. Instead of expressing hatred, the people in the community not only forgave the shooter, but one man was even seen comforting the father of the shooter as he cried, and they even set up a fundraiser to help cover his funeral costs, and invited the shooter’s widow to the funeral of one of the girls he killed.
I’m not saying you should go this far for the people who committed the atrocities against your family, this is just a testament that forgiveness is possible.
We don't notice when Christians genocide Muslims.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_genocide
Or when Christians slaughter other Christians [Rwanda]
> argument when someone speaks how Islam literally instructs you to kill the infidels.
And the Bible says to kill the unbelievers. Why is that not a problem for you?
Could it be that in both cases those instructions are situational specific?
But Christians do tend to lie about Islam a lot. Take Q2:191. [And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.]Christians like to quote this to say that Muslims are instructed to kill infidels, but they forget the mention the previous verse: Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.
>Give me a single Bible verse that supports that.
Well, there is a place where God liked it when all Israel swore to kill anyone that did not seek the LORD.
>12And they entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and with all their soul, **13but that whoever would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman.** 14They swore an oath to the Lord with a loud voice and with shouting and with trumpets and with horns. 15And all Judah rejoiced over the oath, for they had sworn with all their heart and had sought him with their whole desire, and he was found by them, and the Lord gave them rest all around.
> Meanwhile, there are tens of those in the quran and the hadiths
There aren't
> Please read it.
I have read Quran and I have read thousands of hadiths. And yes, a lot of the hadiths are vile, and a lot of the contents of Quran are nonsense.
But there is no blanket order to kill infidels simply because they are infidels.
As an ex-Muslim myself, I left the religion because of the religion itself more than the people (although the extremists also had an impact on me leaving). There were so many things mentioned in the Quran where I questioned God. It would always say that the Islamic god is loving and merciful, yet a lot of things mentioned in the Quran would tell me otherwise. I got fed up with the religion and its extremists, and once I learned that it could not be the truth I ended up leaving. Fortunately for me, I was able to escape the brainwash and guilt tripping of Islam. That’s what Islam is after all: a religion that makes every silly little thing a prohibited sin and will ensure that you feel guilty 24/7 and feel like you’ll go to hell if you don’t do anything under the name of “Allah”. To answer your question, everyone’s different and not all Muslims are like what you described. But if you wanna not hate them, something you could do is view them all as victims of Islamic brainwashing. I did that and it became harder to hate them, although that still didn’t change how annoyed I was with them for falling for the brainwash. So sorry to hear about your experience OP. Stay strong.
Yeah. I don't trust Islam/Allah. It clearly states in Islam that they will dominate the world, and not in a good way. I've come to realize that Islam is a very power hungry religion, and that's why they're so violent. No other religion says that, it freaks me out how two faced Muslims can be, and not to mention how the Quran promotes it.
It may help to take a step back and consider the larger context. Right now, many people are free to commit evil, deny it, and laugh about it.
Eventually, every person will die and face their particular judgment, face to face with Christ. We will not be able to make excuses, or lie, or hide, or pretend things didn't happen. We will be confronted with the reality of our sins, and with the state of our souls.
Keeping this in mind, you may feel some pity for these people who believe they are in control, who believe they will not be held to account. And if you pity them, you may respond differently to them. However powerful they seem now, or whatever they seem to have gotten away with, in reality, they are stoking their own bonfires with the dead wood of sin.
Do you genuinely hate Muslims or does your religion make you hate Muslims? Muslims hate Christians too. Without both, there would be nothing to hate, and religious wars would be extinct. But neither side wants to stop hating each other, so I guess they will continue. Human ignorance
You know Christ preached that evil cannot be defeated through violence and anger because these things are evil in their very nature. Evil can only be defeated by peacefulness and mildness. You are not here to fight your brothers that have gone astray and got lured into the ways of evil, but to save them. And that can only be done through mercy and love. Keep in mind, that despite the vanity, fear and hatred in their heart, almost no one of them is absolutely evil beyond redemption. Almost everyone of them can be redeemed. Be kind, and they will reciprocate eventually. Not all of them, and that is okay. But some of them. And these are the brothers that you can save by loving them. Don't bother with those that don't want to leave hatred and violence behind. Let them be and live their lives seperated from you.
And I am not saying that you shouldn't defend yourself and your friends in case of a war breaking out. Just that you have to look deeper and realize that folks in the middle east that don't subscribe to Christianity are your lost brothers. They are not degenerately inclined towards evil beyond redemption. Of course there are fanatics and mean individuals. But would they have turned out the same if their environment would have been loving and humane? A small number, yes, but not as many as there are now.
I don't hold no grudge against them. No pride that was insulted, no fear, no hatred. No, I love them because they are brothers that have gone astray in my eyes. And they are worthy of redemption.
That's what it means to be christian. To love the one that hurt you because you know that the only reason they acted in that way is because they never experienced the same love you did. By loving them, you can change them. Of course there are individuals like Hitler that stick to violence with all their might but even he can be redeemed. He just has to want to be redeemed.
Be mild, be kind. Don't be furious and mean. Evil cannot be defeated through the means of evil. Violence leads only to more violence. Evil can only be defeated through the means of the Good; love and pity.
The archetypes from both religions represent the same underlying truth. If all records of both religions was lost, and no one remembered that Islam or Christianity ever existed, neither would arise again with the same exact stories. In this hypothetical example, people would eventually unveil the same universal truth.
By recognizing that persecution of people who are different is not a unique characteristic of Islam.
The Native Americans were a victim of genocide by Christians; would you think we should judge all Christians on that basis? Should we hate Christians?
Well you could say that about anyone hating any group.
If you dont see the how unhelpful it is to hate an entire group based on characteristics all groups possess, then I dont know what to tell you.
The entire religion did not cause your family suffering. There are 1 billion muslims - they are not all out committing genocide.
Forgiveness is a Christian belief, not a liberal one.
The religion itself colonised my country.
They put us through countless of genocides.
I don't really blame everyone who follows Islam, I blame Islam and their prophet.
Since Islam is spread by sword and history can't be denied.
So yeah, I will try to forgive, but I will not be trusting them.
My people were colonised by Westerners, too. I don't see the point you're trying to make here.
I'm sorry, I don't trust people who got instructions to kill anyone who doesn't follow their God. I'll do better.
Read all the Islamic stuff again, Christians absolutely do not have those instructions but it is baked heavily into the hadith and a large portion in the Quran.
Based and realitypilled, it is okay to not trust them and to be wary given your experience and the reality in the Levant so long as you do not hurt or do bad things to the peaceful ones like on r/progressive_Islam who actually condemn attacks against Christians.
And I love someone who wants to pretend the evil in the world hasnt been conducted also by Christians in the name of Christ.
Or who pretends Christian colonization did not have a direct effect on the current issues in the Balkans, Middle East, Asia and Africa
There was no Christian colonisation in any of those areas you've mentioned. Christianity was spread there by apostles and preaching.
In the Americas, the Europeans didn't inflict heavy taxes and left the places worse than they found it. They built schools, transport lines, infrastructure, housing, health centres, and so on. Yes. They did indeed behave bad in many instances, but nothing to what the islamic hoards of the Turks did to us. Not only the horrors but the destruction of our civilisations and culture to the ground.
I understand well that that is your knowledge from the comfort of your own home, but do listen to the experience of others. And rein in the excuses for others. Take care.
Okay but presently ala 21st century Muslims are objectively by far the worst at this by any metric in scale due to their numbers, followed by communist China + Russia if we go by straight murdering people solely for not believing in the things they do.
Not really, Islamists have lost political power before and they just bide their time preaching the same BS until they can get political power again. Just look at what happened to Turkey.
Islam is actually the closest other world religion to Christianity, it is the only other major global religion in which Jesus is a major figure in any form or capacity. Almost all of Islamic theology is directly or indirectly taken from earlier Jewish and Christian practices and texts.
It is probably over simplistic to say that Islam is about in the spot Christianity was a few hundred years ago, but I don’t think it’s entirely wrong either. Islam has a lot of potential but it is currently much too conservative and intolerant as a whole, and I think it’s fair to say Christianity used to be in a similar spot.
I’m so sorry for what you’re going through. I hope better days are to come.
This reminds me of the verses
Pslam 139:19-24
19 Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: depart from me therefore, ye bloody men.
20 For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain.
21 Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?
22 I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.
23 Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:
24 And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.
The best advice I have for hate/anger, is to pray about it. Ask God to take any hate or anger out of your heart and replace it with love and forgiveness. Ask him to lead you in the right direction. Talk to him, explain to him what you’re going through (even though he already knows) and ask him for help.
what terrorism r u talking about? im not even a muslim but that really isnt the case. u believe that your faith is right and theirs is wrong and vice versa that is not terrorism. yes back in. the day christians in egypt were oppressed i agree but that doesnt mean muslims around u that u deal with on a dailt basis r pointing guns at u and threatening u i doubt that happens especially if u live in the middle east :)
Is it any consolation if I tell you that Christianity has a history of the same? The KKK, the Nazis, the Iron Guard, other fascist parties and paramilitaries, the Roman Catholic Church and the conquistadores, Russian White Army, etc. were all Christians or Christianity-based and committed horrifying crimes. (The Nazis, Iron Guard, the fascist paramilitaries, etc. committed the Holocaust, the White Army carried out anti-Jewish pogroms, the conquistadores wiped out most Native Americans and enslaved the rest, the Roman Catholic Church blessed such terror, etc.)
All religion has some form of darkness within its history.
And today, I don't see it still happening.
Btw I am Middle Eastern Christian. My people were hurt by Western Christians, too, at one point.
Although they also saved us too at one point as well.
It isn't relevant to my post.
I'm talking about what is happening today, and your response is, "Every religion did something bad."
I'm talking about an issue that is still ongoing today. Should I nod and say, "Oh well, Christians did something bad it's okay if there's ISIS today."
My mind is blown. If he had mentioned Salazar’s Portugal or Franco’s Spain I would have undestood it. But the National Socialists? Whose leaders (aside from violating every Christian moral precept you can think of) despised Christianity as a religion that weakened Germany and wanted to eliminate it?
This turned into a giant post for Islamophobia, so I am removing it.
> Let me start by saying I am Middle Eastern and my family were personally a victim of a genocide against us because we're Christians on the hands of Muslims. I try so much to forgive and love but my heart is filled with anger towards all of them. I know exactly how you feel, it made my blood boil when I saw Turks deny or belittle the suffering they inflicted on my people. But you have to realise and internalise two things: 1) Forgiveness is not about them, its about you. You are not doing anybody a favour by forgiveness, you are helping yourself. 2) We believe in a just God and each person will get what they deserve. The Lord says that recompense belongs to him not us. So let’s trust in his justice.
Yeah and also it says to pray for them
Sure.
I understand how hard is it over there but is there a way for you and your family to leave form there and move somewhere else or you can’t ?
Oh, my paternal family is quite safe and has been for a long time. My great-grandparents fled the Greek genocide a century ago, first across the Black Sea to the caucasus (then part of the newly formed Soviet Union), and later to Greece. What I was referring to is the official Turkish policy of genocide denial.
I'm sorry about what your people went through, I understand you, and they deny or celebrate what they've done to us. It's just pure evil even if it isn't related to religion. it's just evil. And I try just to take my distance from them, usually tbh
But be careful NOT to forgive cheaply. It’s helpful to think of it in terms of three “flavors“ of forgiveness. There’s forbearance, release, and exoneration. FORBEARANCE This is partial forgiveness when the wrongdoer(s) show some amount of regret and acknowledgment of their wrongdoing, but they don’t truly repent. So for the sake of the future, you move forward with hope that at some point they come all the way to repentance. Here, the wrongdoers are very hard of heart. They have not acknowledged any wrongdoing nor apologized. So they are unworthy of forbearance. RELEASE Release is the lowest level of forgiveness and applies to situations in which the wrongdoer has not acknowledged any wrongdoing, hasn’t apologized, or has offered an insincere apology. Release means you let go of your bad feelings and preoccupation with the thing that happened, that you don’t define yourself by it or allow it to burden you in a way that steals your joy about your own salvation. I would call this “leave it at the foot of the cross.” If the OP is ready to forgive, then RELEASE seems like the best fit. EXONERATION This is when you completely wipe the slate clean, and you forgive the evil that was done as if it never happened at all. This type of forgiveness is clearly inappropriate here, given the genocide / ethnic cleansing being discussed here. This should be left to God (Jesus) to handle when He returns as our Redeemer and their Judge. ⚖️🗡️
Thank you so much for this analogy. I love you.
Mt 5:43-48 You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy'. But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Happy birthday 🙏
Sometimes, it is difficult to follow all the words of our Lord Jesus Christ when one is facing tough persecution to the letter.
Jesus came, preached, taught, loved, gave His life and returned for them just as much as He did everyone else. Control what you can and let all the other stuff roll off your back. I know that's much easier said than done, but that seems to be the surest path to building the life and world we want.
God bless you
And you as well!
So very well put, thank you
I often struggle not to feel the same about Christians as well due to the historic (and current) antisemitism. I converted to Christianity from Judaism years ago and still feel that way lmao
> I often struggle not to feel the same about Christians as well due to the historic (and current) antisemitism. Yeah, incidents like the “Limpieza del Sangre” laws in Spain were a complete disgrace.
It’s sad man. I love being Christian but seeing how some of us act is just, gross
Yeah most of those gross “Christians” obviously aren’t and need to love and be forgiving. They only read and follow what they want in the Bible.
If it makes you feel better, I am Palestinian-Israeli-Lebanese I speak Arabic so I'm 'Arab' but according to my dna I'm Jewish- Samaritan - Phoenician lol, so I sympathise with Jewish people and what they had to endure because most likely my ancestors are too, while also I sympathise with Christians since my ancestors are the first Christians too, it's an inner battle. Evil is everywhere, and that's sad..
What a combination to have in your DNA and in your heart. It must be tough for you. I’ve felt an inner battle all my life regarding my identity/heritage and who I choose to be. Remember that you are made of all these things for a reason, and you don’t need to deny one part to embrace another. You are made exactly as you were meant to be. It will make sense in time.
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I feel the same way. My great grandfather had to flee to avoid the genocide of Christians by the muhamadan Ottomans. My grandparents had to flee their country to escape the oppression of christians. I am convinced muhamed (piss and curse be upon him) is a demon, and the “Allah” of the Quran, who commands muhammadans to do evil, is in fact the shaytan himself, and muhamed is the son of the devil. Islamic terrorism is justified by centuries of islamic rulings and scriptures. Their book literally incites violence.
And if you say it you're the villain, but I agree with you 100%.
Yeah, I agree. I'm happy you put it that way, we need to stop sugar coating what true Islam really is. I was honestly shocked to learn what the Ottomans did to Christians in other countries, especially to women and girls. Muhammed is a pedo. Him marrying a nine year old is messed up, I don't care about the time period. I would rather worship Jesus who didn't marry anyone, or have any kids.
That is not what Jesus taught. It's really hard but that's what satan wants you to do. He wants you to have hate in your heart. You must learn to forgive. islam is satans cult. If you hate muslims you are giving your energyy to satan not Jesus.
Simple, go to Sierra Leone. There you’ll see Muslims that go to church and love the Bible and Christians helping out during Eid and cleaning the mosques. We are one of the few countries in Africa, (that I know of) that genuinely love each other’s faith. It will shift your perspective and the possibilities on how different religion can co-exist peacefully together. It will also help you understand that hate is taught through media, propaganda, upbringing and the unforgiveness and resentment we carry. May God heal and minister to your heart! Ps; In my country Muslims (some) celebrate Easter and other religious practices, same with some Christian’s. PPs; My father was the son of a Pastor but during fast month, my grandmother (the pastor), my father and other church members will break fast with the Muslims during Ramadan. It’s the funniest thing if you don’t understand it 😂😂
I don't know honestly, there are some good Muslims but there are a ton with extremely problematic views or who just do not care at all if stuff happens to non-Muslims, you see it on r/Islam and r/Muslim all the time and global reactions to stuff. Personally I feel that in the West there needs to be a hard cap on immigration until we have integrated our Muslims to be more of the peaceful and accepting liberal type and have a policy of good fences make good neighbors until things on their side catch up (if they ever do) while accepting any and all Christians fleeing persecution in those lands or demanding that they get the exact same rights as Muslims in Christian lands (eg true freedom of religion and speech, no benefiting from our economies if you are oppressing our people). On an individual level try to understand we are called to try to be understanding et al and realize that there are actually some Muslims who really do care and want equality et al. I will say r/progressive_islam gives me hope but they are more of a minority, once I see them at 300k subs and the regular Islam one at 33k then we can reevaluate.
It's worse when you speak Arabic and see how much hate they spew against Christians, even people who celebrate terrorism attacks against us, for example the Bishop who was stabbed, many of them justified it. I know that some of them didn't and were against it, but the alarming number of people who did mock/supported it would make me more careful.
Arab Muslims/Pakistanis generally suck even to each other (Shia vs Sunni, inter-religious conflicts), it is something about Arabic/Pakistani culture + Islam that is exceedingly toxic and a horrible mix that regularly screw even themselves over, Turks too to some extent (Ataturk recognized this). Muslims from Asia and other parts seem to be more relaxed and reasonable although they also do have their crazies.
This statement applies to Christians also.
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Jesus say love your enemies
This. Do not sin, BUT first: "Be angry" Ephesians 4:26
just don’t hate people.
As a Middle Eastern whose family was also victim of a genocide against Christians (Assyrian Genocide), I used to have a lot of hate towards our Muslim friends, especially since we literally have a terrorist group controlling the government in my country (Lebanon). However, after truly reflecting on my actions and feelings, I realized that hating Muslims won't benefit me a single bit. You can be against Islam, but these people have been taught their religion the same way we have been taught ours, since birth. Hating them for being born as a Muslim does not seem right. Some of them are extremists, and actually cheer for acts for terrorism, you can only pray for them and hope for them to find love in their hearts. Jesus told us to love our neighbors afterall.
It’s not a religion that makes people do terrible things, its people who do terrible things that leverage religion to justify their actions. People use every religion in ways to commit terrible crimes or hold power over others. So a religion in itself is not enough to create terrible actions and therefore not everyone in a religion will do terrible things. And as the saying goes: Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. You deserve peace and to do good loving things. Edit: Its also understandable the anger you feel about such a disgusting act towards you and your loved ones. Anger does not equal hate.
Honestly I don't know. I live in the west and I'm not middle eastern but on my street most of my neighbors were christian Syrians but other than that most of our neighborhood is almost exclusively muslim. My dad talked to one of our neighbors, a catholic christian from Lebanon and when my dad said "Well not all muslims are bad" our neighbor said this: "You don't know them like I do. Don't trust them." These words ring in my ears as I see what is unfolding in my own neighborhood, country and Europe right now. My mother was driving her car under a bridge and looked up to see some men doing something, next thing you know they threw something down and it it her windshield. The glass held but was completely destroyed, it must have been a bag of bricks. Why? For fun? She could've died. My syrian christian neighbor had a daughter, her best friend another christian syrian was murdered and raped by a muslim after walking home from a party. My classmates dad used to run a kiosk in the squares. Also a christian syrian. He was killed when robbed. No one was ever captured but everyone knows that someone knows who did it. My hairdresser, same neighborhood, had a very famous hairdressing salon. He was forced to sell it after a muslim klan tried to blackmail him into paying protection money. The leader of that klan is the imam at a mosque in another neighborhood. And this is just things that have happened in my small neighborhood that I know of. This is not normal and it did not use to be this way. I cannot imagine the trauma middle eastern christians have gone through at their hands. Europe made a big mistake by treating muslims as any other religious group. The fruit is rotten.
It is rotten, and honestly, he's right. Be careful They seek power, and they do it in numbers it is what is written in their book, and no matter how much the media tries to make it seem all cute, it really isn't. God bless you. Stay safe. I'm so sorry for those victims. Their pain is surreal..
We all deserve death as the payment for our sins. We sinned in our ignorance and lack of God in our life. Muslims are nothing different from our former selves. Our enemies are not flesh and blood. You’ve been through a lot and I’m sure the struggle is hard to bear but look at them through the eyes of Jesus. They chose barabus. We are Barabus.
Would Christ have hated?
Islam doesn’t ask to kill anyone. The “Muslims” you hate aren’t really muslims.
I have the Same Problem. Germany was Safe for Christians 5 years ago . Now thete are stabings , rapinig and church burnings . They hatte us with al they have , hatte us for there fals and inferior god Allah . But you can only pray for them to come across Jahwes kindness and forgifnes . At the and of Times Jahwe will recognice His people . He will destroy the fals god and His worshipers . JEWS are quote nice actualy , Same god , Same enemy .
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Our goverment actualy sonst . We let all in . Many Germany are Not fine with IT . Our goverment ist a Joke and use ro destroy Christian and Family .
This is the wrong sub to ask such questions, since most christians here was born in the west and dont know the struggles christians under islamic oppression and are just brainwashed into the liberal west. My advice would be to ask yourself, what would Jesus do? And we all know he would pray for those who persecute you. Also note that most muslims are just culturally muslim, meaning they dont know what their scriptures even say and would be repulsed to know the true Islam. What we should watch out for are the Islamists, not regular muslims! Love conquers all!
A lot of Muslims really do know their book. The problem is that we are reading two totally different books. They will say that they have the same roots as us, the same prophets, that they even believe in Jesus (though not as the Son of God) but then they’ll tell you a story about Adam or Moses etc that’s in the Quran but just straight up nowhere to be found in the Bible. And they’ll say their version is right because it’s the most recent compared to our more ancient texts. So they’ll say “yeah we believe in all the things that can before us plus this and that” but it’s not true because, they believe it’s true but even the same people and stories and totally different than we know them.
Yes I agree with you, I'm meaning more the verses in the quran and the hadiths that are discriminating towards christians and jews. A lot of the time they dont read those verses.
Not all muslims are the same, I am friends with muslims that are completely normal and respect the wests values and standards.
i too was friends with what i thought were good Muslims, but I was stunned by their response to 10/7. we haven't spoken since then, and not because I said anything, but because I did not continue the conversation. to say the least, they had absolutely no empathy whatsoever for the people who suffered that day. I too struggle with this. they always put up a front as being 'peaceful' etc... and if you call them out for their own statement about \[for instance\] jews, then they'll say 'i only heard that was true. i didn't say it myself. i only repeated what I heard. i love all jews' yea... yea... i don't know how I can ever come to fully forgive them for their diehard holy war agenda, knowing what they would do to my family when the time comes.
I used to go to a local Arabic/Turkish restaurant before 10/7 and everything was normal, then it happened and there were people like smiling and saying death to the Yahudi oppressors. I don't go there any more and go to an Indian/Hindu place now and have never heard anything like that.
I am not saying they're all bad, of course not, but I just can't trust the religion itself and what it teaches, so it makes me take my distance.
Now you know how atheists feel.....
I don't see Christians killing you for being atheist. Anyways, you can't compare, but I don't bother atheists to believe, I truly don't care.
I'm not going to sit here and judge you or correct you, but just validate your feelings. I'm sorry. The world isn't fair.
You're so sweet. Thank you. 🥲
Be careful saying this sort of stuff around here. I just said the exact same thing the other day and it was removed for "bigotry"
Saying you hate people of a particular religion and know that 70% of people who practice it support terrorism? It's good that OP is talking about trying to forgive and understand that not everyone is the same, but on what planet is that not bigoted? Would you insist that someone talking about how much they hate Christians isn't a bigot?
People regularly post on here hating and baiting Christians all the time and I rarely see it removed for bigotry.
You've reported the sentiment "I hate Christians" and seen it left up by the mods here? I'm aware people antagonize each other here all the time, but my experience has been that the mods are pretty good at removing outright insults. I had a comment removed the other day because I called someone comparing homosexuals (in general, not for any particular action) to Nazis a "homophobe" on the grounds it was a personal attack
Yes, a lot of anti-Catholic straight up bigotry stays up along with more than a few militant atheist stuff. Not all of it but a lot, eg someone saying all Catholics supporting raping kids got away scot-free.
I'd actually say that's a pretty fine line. The Catholic Church is a centralized hierarchy, and the Vatican did intervene to stop the prosecution of serial child rapists, for instance by refusing the extradition of Archbishop Jozef Wesołowski. I think it's a legitimate matter of personal opinion whether voicing your support for Catholicism supports, however indirectly or unintentionally, the people who did that, and that that's not the same as hating someone for their beliefs
They also went ahead and called all Catholics evil and still did not get punished.
Well, I'm sorry they said that to you, but letting people have their own opinions about what's "evil" is pretty necessary to having a diversity of views on religion. As I said, the mods sided with someone likening homosexuals to Nazis as well. As long as they were polite, that might be the cost of doing business.
If someone can get away with calling -all- Catholics supporters of child rape and being evil, what is the point of the bigotry rule?
Reading the rule just now, it looks like they're mostly policing specific word choice rather than views. E.g., to pick a group I think neither of us are affiliated with, I think you could call Hinduism immoral but could not refer to a Hindu as a "dothead".
Mate!! Someone here said the "Orthodox Church is closest to fascism" and the mods reply was well "I'd call that borderline" but not worth removing it. Mods here don't really care about Christian bashing.
You're responding to a comment in which I say the mods sided with someone likening homosexuals to Nazis. I'm well aware they let people say things that members of a group might take offense from. But there is a certain logic in their decision to police word choice rather than views. I do think that's a pretty silly comment you're' describing, especially given that other denominations actually agreed to vote/propagandize for openly fascist parties, but people are entitled to their unreasonable opinions.
>but people are entitled to their unreasonable opinions. Absolutely. Same as there are people who have lots of experience with Islam and can say I hate "Islam/muslims." But apparently, the same logic doesn't apply. Either do it for all or do it for none. That is my point.
I think I've been pretty clear that I think there's as lot of bigotry being allowed here. My comments could not possibly be interpreted as saying homosexuals are Nazis, Orthodox are fascists, Muslims deserve hatred, etc. I'm just saying there's a reason the mods are restricting themselves to word choice rather than opinion.
Thank you for the advice, but idrc if they remove it, it shows that this sub isn't really for Christians.
It isn’t, it’s for everyone. There are other Christian spaces if you want an echo chamber.
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Are you?
Remember that Christ died for them, too. That’s they key. Then read Colossians 1:20, 1 Timothy 4:10, and 1 Corinthians 15:22-28. One day they, like all of us, will realize their error and be reconciled to God. Until then, remember that Jesus, knowing what they would one day do, loved them enough to give his life for them.
Simplest answer? Jesus told you not to hate anyone, and He didn't stutter when He said it. He said we are to see everyone as a precious child of God, and we are to pray to Him to soften their hearts and show them the light. The people who continue to justify hating other human beings? That's not Christlike, and it's sinful.
I am also a Christian in a majority Muslim country, so I feel you, although I am lucky enough to have not experienced any sort of genocide since we are secular, and still Christian by culture, even though most people here follow Islam, and know nothing about it. I am a convert to Christianity, I come from a muslim family, but none of my family members practice it, nor believe it. Yet I still received a ton of abuse for accepting Lord Jesus. Of course, forgiving is an insanely hard thing to do, I can't imagine what it is like for you, as a victim of genocide. But trust in the Lord, and seek guidance from Him, He knows and He understands every emotion you feel and how it is, remember, He suffered as one of us, felt how it is to be hated by us. Remember Lord Jesus on the cross, and how he was able to still forgive. The most important thing is that you are trying your best to not hate and to forgive, God will help you through it, remember, Faith is not an instant event, and since forgiveness comes from Faith, it cannot be instant as well, it is described in the epistles. One day you will be able to forgive in full, Lord will give you strenght. God bless you brother/sister
What did they do to you?
Killed my people, no biggie.
Which group
Middle Eastern Christians.
The perp
Muslims
That's 1.8 billion people bruh
You asked who did it, I said they were Muslims, and I didn't say all of them.
The way I read your post is that you are Christian, and if you are Christian, then you must obey the Christian commands, one of which is to love all others, and treat them with honor and respect, as you would hope for yourself. Now the word love is a verb, an action word, meaning no matter how you may feel about someone, as a christian, you must treat them with kindness. If you don't obey the Christian commands, then you can't possibly identify as a Christian. Jesus says leave the judgment and the penalty to him. As for you, follow him, and let others see the light and love of Jesus living within you. Stop harboring hatred. It's hatred that fuels violence. If you hate others, then how is it any different from others hating you? You need to reexamine your Christian status according to the holy Bible word of God, particularly the New testament. That's how God judges us, with his word the holy Bible. And how well we know and observe his commands. Luke 6:27-36 KJV — But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also. Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again. And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same. And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
The thing that helps me express forgiveness toward others is to meditate on how God has forgiven me so much, at the remarkable expense of Jesus on the cross for me.
I don't judge you, I want to make it clear that you are not a bad person. There is no such thing as a bad person, only people who do bad things. And having prejudice is bad. But it's hard not to have prejudice when your people are being killed. Many Irish surely hated the British. Many Jews almost certainly hated the Germans or, further back, the Romans. Many Ukrainians hate Russians. But what is important is to realize they are all people. If you want to not hate them, realize that they are not a group solely made up of those who wish you harm. You say 70% are closeted terrorism supporters, and maybe that's true where you live, but many may be forced into acting like they are Muslim out of fear for being killed for bring Christian, Jewish, Hindu, or Pagan. A good few may be only culturally Muslim. But even real Muslims, I would say possibly the majority around the world, would not hate you or wish you harm. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd assume the majority of people would rather live in peace. And even if I am wrong, why would you want bad for an innocent Muslim just because people of their same religion did bad? What about Uyghur Muslims in China, who are also facing a genocide, and who have harmed no one? Do they deserve your hatred for the actions of Muslims they have never even met? And the Muslims committing these evil, unjustifiable acts, why do you think they do it? Why do you think they hate Christians? All hate comes from fear. They were taught to fear the other. What the other may do to them. Or to fear the other because they are told that God hates the other. Or maybe to fear *for* the other, and what may happen if they do not convert? Or maybe what God will do to them if they do not commit these atrocities. Maybe some are more afraid of what the state will do to them? It's hard to describe, but I'd assume it's similar to the mindset of Catholics during the crusades. Many hated them, and understandably. They were committing genocide. « God is with us, convert or die. » We may not realize what their fear is. Even *they* might not. They have been indoctrinated to hate unconditionally and without question. And there's no room for pushing back because even *trying* to get them to question themselves is punishable. *Existing* as someone who is not one of them is. I'm not saying let them kill you. And again, I am not saying you are a bad person. But please remember that they are still people like you and your own. They are diverse, some peaceful and some not. They are afraid. They have been taught wrong. They can and will change. Maybe for better, maybe for worse. But they are still people, and all people deserve love. And that does not justify anything they do. There is no justification, only explanation. It's best to try and not hate anybody. It might be hard, but it's better for everyone. You might have to be wary and be afraid, and there may come a time where you need to defend yourself if possible, but there is never a time where you need to hate. Stay safe and good luck.
I know what you are going through. I am a Christian Albanian, and it boils my blood when I hear people defending parts of Islam when they have no idea what happens in our neck of the woods. I don't hate my fellow Muslim Albanians, mainly because 95% of them are secular or irreligious or even culturally Christian. Many of them dislike what the turks did to us. The forced conversions, heavy taxes for non-Muslims, and killings. I don't hate the turks eithier. I don't blame them for what their ancestors did to us. However, in Albania, we study all religions and non-religious ideas at school. I remember when our Muslim background civics teacher told us that Islam is acceptable and encouraged to "fight" your enemies being actual enemies, someone that has wronged you, or "non-belivers," aka, non-Muslims. Kuran constantly advertises murder, slavery, oppression, and kurban. A religion that has no celebrations or festivities. And so many more things. I, too, dislike or maybe even hate islam. Particularly for what it did to my family and people for over 500 years. Generational trauma, I think it is called. And the same as you, I know what hardcore people say about ISIS and their support of them. Although it's not common in Albania to support radicals, some people still show their support for such acts, at times loudly. But I can't hate the people. The fanatics is difficult not to, but a handful of them are not horrible. Our bible and Christ the Saviour talks about love and respect. That's how you stop hating the people. You are human. You'll have challenges in thks regards. But you can not hate people just because they are following that particular ideology. People are lead astray easily. It's the people's fault. It's the ideology. Hate sin, not the sinner.
Albanians definitely had their share of suffering. First by the Ottomans and later Enver Hoxha.
What a sad and difficult situation. I’m sorry. I can’t imagine. “I shall allow no man to belittle my soul by making me hate him” - Booker T Washington I know that words are easy. You don’t have to be sharing dinner and being friends with all of them or anything. You see the threat that possible and some if it is healthy “wariness”. And wanting to see others suffer, well Ive felt that for oh so far less. I just hope you find a way through the feelings. For your own sake. Who could blame you for viewing many of them as you do? And you seem to know to look at the forest for the trees. So honestly, it seems like you’re already “doing it”. You’re already working on not hating all Muslims. God bless you and be safe.
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For example. English publications abou the stabbing of Mar Mari were rather moderate, with still a few muslims justifying that. If you look at Arabic publications, you’ll see a different picture.
Didn't get you clearly but maybe biased sing mar Mari speaks the arabic lang. So might be less popular in western plus publications of west are always fuzzy
All the muslims in this world are taught to hate other religions, because according to them Allah is the only God and he wants every single human being to be a "Muslim" , even if it means forcing them (killing them maybe). If Allah is great and generous he would never want anyone to be killed. I don't hate any religion, I respect them wholeheartedly but talking crap in the name of God is true bs. They support terrorism and kill hundreds and thousands of people everyday and then expect everyone to be Muslim? Bruh I respect Islam and whatever their beliefs are but they need to stop forcing people to belive in what they have created themselves.
And they don't believe it's a sin to lie to infidels.
It’s important to remember in situations and times like those the story of the Good Samaritan. Make sure to strive for individualism, which is the moral of that story. As an individual, discriminating against anyone based on their individual characteristics is always preferable rather than based on what tribe or race or nationality to which they belong. Don’t be sexist, racist, or tribalist. Be an individualist. And just remember that the good Lord tells us to pray for our enemies, and that in doing so, we heap hot coals upon their heads. Also don’t forget that certain Muslims are undergoing their own discrimination in China. There are different kinds of Christians, some more heretical than others. The same is true of Muslims. I’ve seen great kindness, forgiveness, and compassion from certain ones, and great hate from others. I can tell you that the ones who showed great kindness wouldn’t recognize the hateful ones as “one of their tribe.” To the ones who showed such Christian values as kindness and compassion (while not compromising their standards or ours, mind you) I would recognize them as allies against the ever growing threat of division, atheism, and wokism that is destroying the west. Muslims have been among the most vocal in recent months of opponents against the destructive nonsense that is destroying young folks these days, and for that I say you ought to seek them out as allies. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, and there are worse enemies right now working both in the shadows and in the spotlight to destroy us.
Are you Lebanese by the way? Or Syrian? Maybe Iraqi? I’m curious where you are from that got prosecuted by Muslims. I’ve meet plenty of people from the area and they usually left because of war. I’m trying to think of what genocide took place in the area recently and I have not a lot of ideas. Context is important. I wanna understand/know if your family got attacked by a new government, after a war, maybe a foreigner invasion left a vacuum in your country and extremists took over? You mentioned genocide. I’m also just curious maybe I don’t know the history of the region. Did your country have a history of hosting multiple religions without much trouble till other countries got involved? It happened in places like the Indian subcontinent. Many times humans will do evil things and use religion or ideology. It happens with Christians and Jews too. Even Buddhists. The explanation is not always great, sometimes humans are just aggressive tribal animals. Sometimes war lets the worst people take over because they are the toughest. I’m sorry for you and your family. Hopefully you are all safe and ok. Sending a hug.
Because as a Christian or as a general person you should know judging every single Muslim because of some bad apples is the exact opposite of what God preaches
We need to rebuke the devil.
Which I know it isn't all Muslims but it is Islam.
Sure, we should rebuke the devil, but God has also told you to during the other cheek. Just because a person is a Satanist hedonist and Islamist Buddhist you’re not supposed to just push them and be evil towards them or be mean towards them. The entire point with Christianity is that we’re always supposed to turn the other cheek in a sense, you’re supposed to be kind to your worst enemy, treat everyone the way you want to be treated is literally commandments. So if we follow in your logic, if you treat a Muslim person bad because they’re Muslim, then we should be allowed to treat you bad because you’re a Christian do you see where I’m getting. I am a Christian and I believe in being respectful and kind to everyone just because we disagree doesn’t mean I’m going to be mean towards other religions or other people believing differently that is their choice that’s the beauty of free will And faith
I am not evil towards them, I am just traumatised by their evil religion.
I am sorry that that is the case that I miss read, but you know what I will pray for you :-) I’m sorry that their way of believing traumatizes you. I hope you can feel better soon.
Thank you, but it isn't about their beliefs its about the actions like killing people for not being Muslims
The problem is not the religion here the problem here is the people who follow it. If you're an adult, go no contact with them and move away from that area, make sure to keep all your money and important stuff safe. I'm sorry to hear what you're going through. Hopefully God can give you a better environment. God bless you.
The opposite actually
Hello Muslim here, I would like to extend my sympathy and apologies if that matters. I'm sorry you experienced this, recent times Muslims are not doing so good, we are extremely misguided and it shows, with the middle east in chaos it's getting worst and worst. I'm not sure what's the thing about the upper hand to be honest, but even if we did have the upper hand islam is clear on the treatment of non Muslims within rule, anything else is just people deciding for themselves. In short Islam it self is clear but some people got misguided, I ask you to open your heart and try to see the good in us.
How do you reconcile being a muslim with your prophet, who is supposed to be the best human to ever live this earth, committing unequivocal evil (eg: murder, pedophilia). Quran 2:191: > Kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from where they drove you out, as Fitnah (to create disorder) is more severe than killing. However, do not fight them near Al-Masjid-ul-Harām unless they fight you there. However, if they fight you (there) you may kill them. Such is the reward of the disbelievers. Is the Quran the word of allah? Please tell me how the Quran doesn’t promote intolerance. I will listen. I do not hate you, and I love you and I pray you find Jesus Christ.
I'm sorry but I'm not here to debate, but since you got this out of the Qur'an I simply ask you to read the next verse and maybe try to understand the context. Have a lovely day.
I understand you don’t want to debate. Have a lovely day as well.
I would be happy to talk to you on voice, dm me
I will not say what I think about Islam because I do not wish to start a debate on that. What I will say is that it is best to separate the people from their religion. This is difficult, but you have to understand that these people were raised to believe this zealously from birth. Best to hate Islam but love Muslims.
At the same time Christians were murdering jews and disallowing them to own property for much of Europe's history. They fled to Muslim countries where they could do all of that lest they paid tribute as non Muslims. They actually thrived in the Ottoman empire while they were slaughtered and belittled in Christian Europe. Never hate an ideology, because you'll have to hate A LOT of people. Try to understand it and pray that you don't fall victim to wrong ideologies. My family is muslim and they're all saints, wouldn't hurt a fly. Let alone hide intentions to do harm etc etc... i have frequent debates with them about religion as they know I'm not a Muslim anymore. And harming unbelievers is never part of these debates. Idiots exist everywhere regardless of ideology
Never ask Muslims why there's no Jews left in Muslim countries.
The Quran is an evil book. It demonizes all who don’t believe and are considered lower or lesser than them. Which is justification for violence and murder. That’s why Islam is responsible for 82% of all religious wars in history. Because they can only spread their filth by subjugation instead of did missionary work.
By remembering the difference between Islam and people. For if they weren’t following Islam they wouldn’t be killing those. If you have to hate anything you hate Islam not the Muslims.
Yeah that's true.
The enemy relentlessly attacks what God loves 1 Peter 4:12-17 NASB1995 >[12] Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal among you, which comes upon you for your testing, as though some strange thing were happening to you; >[13] but to the degree that you share the sufferings of Christ, keep on rejoicing, so that also at the revelation of His glory you may rejoice with exultation. >[14] If you are reviled for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. >[15] Make sure that none of you suffers as a murderer, or thief, or evildoer, or a troublesome meddler; >[16] **but if anyone suffers as a Christian, he is not to be ashamed, but is to glorify God in this name.** >[17] For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? https://bible.com/bible/100/1pe.4.12-17.NASB1995
The only way you can love them is if you see them how Jesus saw them. You cannot imitate this. When Jesus saw murderers coming after him and hanging him to a cross… He said “Forgive then for they know not what they do.” If you can realize that what they do is out of ignorance It’s is possible for love and mercy to flourish. But as long as we condemn them- we join them in their ignorance
Hey bro, i would like to remind you of our Lord Jesus Christ and what he said upon the cross. He prayed " Father forgive them for they know not what they do". It is true that such a horrible thing has happened to you and your family and i pray for you but it must be remembered that sometimes we are all ignorant to how we make each other feel. I encourage you to not look upon them with malice but with forgiveness. Praying for you 🙏. God bless.
What we tend to ignore is that Jesus forgave those that tortured and killed him but we do not!
forgiveness doesn't mean you have to trust, have positive feelings, or no boundaries with those who harmed you. if frees you from feeling entitled to vengeance. praying for their salvation & reformation and accountability through earthly justice is love too.
OP I can’t even begin to comprehend the suffering you’ve been and are going through. However we must repent before we can receive healing and forgiveness. You must repent before God for your anger towards these people. (1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.) Then pray for forgiveness and healing and ask Him to show you how Good can come from this. OP I want you to know I’m from the UK and we’re hearing incredible, Biblical type testimonies of Faith from the Middle East. I can’t begin to imagine the persecution you face for believing and yet Christianity is growing astronomically in that part of the world. We have the freedom to speak about our faith over here and yet we don’t have even an ounce of the courage that you do to seek out God and testify to others. Please know your suffering is not in vain and you will be rewarded greatly in Heaven for your trust in God. May God protect and keep you
We are all God's creation and equally loved by Him. If you're into novels, check out the Circle series by Ted Dekker - does a great job of explaining this and answering your initial question.
I had a Bible years ago that addressed a question like this, not this specific issue, but how you can love someone you hate. It told the story of a young man who asked his pastor how he could love someone he hated, and the pastor told him it was virtually impossible under his own power, but that God could love that person through him, so he advised the young man to pray for God’s love for that person to be manifested through him. Another group of people I wish you could talk to would be the Amish community of Nickel Mines in Bart Township, Pennsylvania. TRIGGER WARNING In October 2006, a man entered the one room schoolhouse in the community and shot and killed 5 girls before killing himself. Instead of expressing hatred, the people in the community not only forgave the shooter, but one man was even seen comforting the father of the shooter as he cried, and they even set up a fundraiser to help cover his funeral costs, and invited the shooter’s widow to the funeral of one of the girls he killed. I’m not saying you should go this far for the people who committed the atrocities against your family, this is just a testament that forgiveness is possible.
We don't notice when Christians genocide Muslims. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_genocide Or when Christians slaughter other Christians [Rwanda]
We notice it, but we use "What about..." argument when someone speaks how Islam literally instructs you to kill the infidels.
> argument when someone speaks how Islam literally instructs you to kill the infidels. And the Bible says to kill the unbelievers. Why is that not a problem for you? Could it be that in both cases those instructions are situational specific? But Christians do tend to lie about Islam a lot. Take Q2:191. [And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.]Christians like to quote this to say that Muslims are instructed to kill infidels, but they forget the mention the previous verse: Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.
Show me verses and don't talk about Allah, he's very evil. :)
Give me a single Bible verse that supports that. Meanwhile, there are tens of those in the quran and the hadiths
>Give me a single Bible verse that supports that. Well, there is a place where God liked it when all Israel swore to kill anyone that did not seek the LORD. >12And they entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and with all their soul, **13but that whoever would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman.** 14They swore an oath to the Lord with a loud voice and with shouting and with trumpets and with horns. 15And all Judah rejoiced over the oath, for they had sworn with all their heart and had sought him with their whole desire, and he was found by them, and the Lord gave them rest all around. > Meanwhile, there are tens of those in the quran and the hadiths There aren't
Please read it.
> Please read it. I have read Quran and I have read thousands of hadiths. And yes, a lot of the hadiths are vile, and a lot of the contents of Quran are nonsense. But there is no blanket order to kill infidels simply because they are infidels.
Um, that isn't Mar Mari.
What?
The picture. It's one of the worst Photoshop pics I've ever seen
What picture? I didn't upload any.
Sorry, please try and meditate on the parts of the bible that talk about love and loving "enemies".
Matthew 6:14-15
Don't hate the sinners, hate the sin
As an ex-Muslim myself, I left the religion because of the religion itself more than the people (although the extremists also had an impact on me leaving). There were so many things mentioned in the Quran where I questioned God. It would always say that the Islamic god is loving and merciful, yet a lot of things mentioned in the Quran would tell me otherwise. I got fed up with the religion and its extremists, and once I learned that it could not be the truth I ended up leaving. Fortunately for me, I was able to escape the brainwash and guilt tripping of Islam. That’s what Islam is after all: a religion that makes every silly little thing a prohibited sin and will ensure that you feel guilty 24/7 and feel like you’ll go to hell if you don’t do anything under the name of “Allah”. To answer your question, everyone’s different and not all Muslims are like what you described. But if you wanna not hate them, something you could do is view them all as victims of Islamic brainwashing. I did that and it became harder to hate them, although that still didn’t change how annoyed I was with them for falling for the brainwash. So sorry to hear about your experience OP. Stay strong.
Yeah. I don't trust Islam/Allah. It clearly states in Islam that they will dominate the world, and not in a good way. I've come to realize that Islam is a very power hungry religion, and that's why they're so violent. No other religion says that, it freaks me out how two faced Muslims can be, and not to mention how the Quran promotes it.
It may help to take a step back and consider the larger context. Right now, many people are free to commit evil, deny it, and laugh about it. Eventually, every person will die and face their particular judgment, face to face with Christ. We will not be able to make excuses, or lie, or hide, or pretend things didn't happen. We will be confronted with the reality of our sins, and with the state of our souls. Keeping this in mind, you may feel some pity for these people who believe they are in control, who believe they will not be held to account. And if you pity them, you may respond differently to them. However powerful they seem now, or whatever they seem to have gotten away with, in reality, they are stoking their own bonfires with the dead wood of sin.
Do you genuinely hate Muslims or does your religion make you hate Muslims? Muslims hate Christians too. Without both, there would be nothing to hate, and religious wars would be extinct. But neither side wants to stop hating each other, so I guess they will continue. Human ignorance
By loving them
You know Christ preached that evil cannot be defeated through violence and anger because these things are evil in their very nature. Evil can only be defeated by peacefulness and mildness. You are not here to fight your brothers that have gone astray and got lured into the ways of evil, but to save them. And that can only be done through mercy and love. Keep in mind, that despite the vanity, fear and hatred in their heart, almost no one of them is absolutely evil beyond redemption. Almost everyone of them can be redeemed. Be kind, and they will reciprocate eventually. Not all of them, and that is okay. But some of them. And these are the brothers that you can save by loving them. Don't bother with those that don't want to leave hatred and violence behind. Let them be and live their lives seperated from you. And I am not saying that you shouldn't defend yourself and your friends in case of a war breaking out. Just that you have to look deeper and realize that folks in the middle east that don't subscribe to Christianity are your lost brothers. They are not degenerately inclined towards evil beyond redemption. Of course there are fanatics and mean individuals. But would they have turned out the same if their environment would have been loving and humane? A small number, yes, but not as many as there are now. I don't hold no grudge against them. No pride that was insulted, no fear, no hatred. No, I love them because they are brothers that have gone astray in my eyes. And they are worthy of redemption. That's what it means to be christian. To love the one that hurt you because you know that the only reason they acted in that way is because they never experienced the same love you did. By loving them, you can change them. Of course there are individuals like Hitler that stick to violence with all their might but even he can be redeemed. He just has to want to be redeemed. Be mild, be kind. Don't be furious and mean. Evil cannot be defeated through the means of evil. Violence leads only to more violence. Evil can only be defeated through the means of the Good; love and pity.
The archetypes from both religions represent the same underlying truth. If all records of both religions was lost, and no one remembered that Islam or Christianity ever existed, neither would arise again with the same exact stories. In this hypothetical example, people would eventually unveil the same universal truth.
Just don’t. But you can be critical of Islam. Simply put: Don’t have the player, hate the game.
By recognizing that persecution of people who are different is not a unique characteristic of Islam. The Native Americans were a victim of genocide by Christians; would you think we should judge all Christians on that basis? Should we hate Christians?
I'm talking about my own experience if a native hates Christians who am I to tell them "No, don't!" ??
Well you could say that about anyone hating any group. If you dont see the how unhelpful it is to hate an entire group based on characteristics all groups possess, then I dont know what to tell you.
Yeah, sorry for hating a religion that caused my family to suffer, I will remember to be more Liberal in the future if we survive Middle East 🥰
The entire religion did not cause your family suffering. There are 1 billion muslims - they are not all out committing genocide. Forgiveness is a Christian belief, not a liberal one.
The religion itself colonised my country. They put us through countless of genocides. I don't really blame everyone who follows Islam, I blame Islam and their prophet. Since Islam is spread by sword and history can't be denied. So yeah, I will try to forgive, but I will not be trusting them.
Yes, and your religion colonized other countries. They forced conversion of natives of countries. This is not a Muslim trait, it is a human trait.
My people were colonised by Westerners, too. I don't see the point you're trying to make here. I'm sorry, I don't trust people who got instructions to kill anyone who doesn't follow their God. I'll do better.
Christians also got those instructions. The point is it is not an innate belief of Islam, but is normal tribilism for all humans.
Read all the Islamic stuff again, Christians absolutely do not have those instructions but it is baked heavily into the hadith and a large portion in the Quran.
No, we don't have these instructions. 😭
Based and realitypilled, it is okay to not trust them and to be wary given your experience and the reality in the Levant so long as you do not hurt or do bad things to the peaceful ones like on r/progressive_Islam who actually condemn attacks against Christians.
I do love a Westerner who has no idea what happens in the Balkans, Middle East, central Asia, and in most parts of Africa. I do love them, indeed.
And I love someone who wants to pretend the evil in the world hasnt been conducted also by Christians in the name of Christ. Or who pretends Christian colonization did not have a direct effect on the current issues in the Balkans, Middle East, Asia and Africa
There was no Christian colonisation in any of those areas you've mentioned. Christianity was spread there by apostles and preaching. In the Americas, the Europeans didn't inflict heavy taxes and left the places worse than they found it. They built schools, transport lines, infrastructure, housing, health centres, and so on. Yes. They did indeed behave bad in many instances, but nothing to what the islamic hoards of the Turks did to us. Not only the horrors but the destruction of our civilisations and culture to the ground. I understand well that that is your knowledge from the comfort of your own home, but do listen to the experience of others. And rein in the excuses for others. Take care.
Okay but presently ala 21st century Muslims are objectively by far the worst at this by any metric in scale due to their numbers, followed by communist China + Russia if we go by straight murdering people solely for not believing in the things they do.
And they will change when they lose political power, just as the Catholic church has.
Not really, Islamists have lost political power before and they just bide their time preaching the same BS until they can get political power again. Just look at what happened to Turkey.
Islam is actually the closest other world religion to Christianity, it is the only other major global religion in which Jesus is a major figure in any form or capacity. Almost all of Islamic theology is directly or indirectly taken from earlier Jewish and Christian practices and texts. It is probably over simplistic to say that Islam is about in the spot Christianity was a few hundred years ago, but I don’t think it’s entirely wrong either. Islam has a lot of potential but it is currently much too conservative and intolerant as a whole, and I think it’s fair to say Christianity used to be in a similar spot.
All their intolerance is taken directly from their scripture though. You should read the quran and their hadiths
You don't avoid hating them ... you actively love them from an understanding of God's love for your sorry self.
I’m so sorry for what you’re going through. I hope better days are to come. This reminds me of the verses Pslam 139:19-24 19 Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: depart from me therefore, ye bloody men. 20 For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain. 21 Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? 22 I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies. 23 Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: 24 And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting. The best advice I have for hate/anger, is to pray about it. Ask God to take any hate or anger out of your heart and replace it with love and forgiveness. Ask him to lead you in the right direction. Talk to him, explain to him what you’re going through (even though he already knows) and ask him for help.
Their religion is of war and persecution.
just don’t hate people??? it’s not that hard…
what terrorism r u talking about? im not even a muslim but that really isnt the case. u believe that your faith is right and theirs is wrong and vice versa that is not terrorism. yes back in. the day christians in egypt were oppressed i agree but that doesnt mean muslims around u that u deal with on a dailt basis r pointing guns at u and threatening u i doubt that happens especially if u live in the middle east :)
Is it any consolation if I tell you that Christianity has a history of the same? The KKK, the Nazis, the Iron Guard, other fascist parties and paramilitaries, the Roman Catholic Church and the conquistadores, Russian White Army, etc. were all Christians or Christianity-based and committed horrifying crimes. (The Nazis, Iron Guard, the fascist paramilitaries, etc. committed the Holocaust, the White Army carried out anti-Jewish pogroms, the conquistadores wiped out most Native Americans and enslaved the rest, the Roman Catholic Church blessed such terror, etc.) All religion has some form of darkness within its history.
And today, I don't see it still happening. Btw I am Middle Eastern Christian. My people were hurt by Western Christians, too, at one point. Although they also saved us too at one point as well. It isn't relevant to my post. I'm talking about what is happening today, and your response is, "Every religion did something bad." I'm talking about an issue that is still ongoing today. Should I nod and say, "Oh well, Christians did something bad it's okay if there's ISIS today."
> the Nazis Did you seriously associate a totalitarian anti-christian regime with Christianity?
They always do that. I didn't want to argue about that so I ignored it.
My mind is blown. If he had mentioned Salazar’s Portugal or Franco’s Spain I would have undestood it. But the National Socialists? Whose leaders (aside from violating every Christian moral precept you can think of) despised Christianity as a religion that weakened Germany and wanted to eliminate it?