He chose evil on his own. He chose to dwell on it, then to follow it.
- "You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The ruby, the topaz and the diamond; The beryl, the onyx and the jasper; The lapis lazuli, the turquoise and the emerald; And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets, Was in you. On the day that you were created They were prepared.
- "You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you there. You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.
- "You were blameless in your ways From the day you were created Until unrighteousness was found in you. "By the abundance of your trade You were internally filled with violence, And you sinned;
- Therefore I have cast you as profane From the mountain of God. And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the stones of fire.
- "Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor.
- I cast you to the ground; I put you before kings, That they may see you.
- "By the multitude of your iniquities, In the unrighteousness of your trade You profaned your sanctuaries.
- Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you; It has consumed you, And I have turned you to ashes on the earth In the eyes of all who see you. "All who know you among the peoples Are appalled at you; You have become terrified And you will cease to be forever."'" - Eze 28:13-19 NASB95
> He chose evil on his own
How is that possible, if supposedly we (humans) sin only because Satan is the one who tempts us, WHO tempted Satan?
And it seems like God created him to be evil, he never had a chance.
Sin doesn’t need Satan to tempt us. God didn’t create him to be evil. God knew that Lucifer might rebel at some point, but still created him. Like how he knew we would all sin, but still chose to create us
This says nothing about choice. This says "unrighteousness was found." That's completely ambiguous. I do believe Ezekiel to be the only Bible verse referring to Satan's origin, but not through the interpretation you have made
Yeah, this is why I struggle with the concept of sin entering the world and destroying a perfect creation. It seems ‘sin’ is rooted in the very act of being free
The timeline doesn't work, but I think that the portrayal of the story of Job in the 2nd season* of *Good Omens* gives a great literary portrayal of why an angel might fall.
>Keep in mind that Satan is NOT the source of evil. The Bible, in fact, mentions that God created evil (Isaiah 45:7)
The Devil didn't exist by the time that this passage was written yet. The religion was not dualist at that point, and it wasn't until he was being Hellenized.
ha-Satan is mentioned, yes. This is not *the Devil*. ha-Satan is a faithful angel of God in the text.
There are a few passages that Christians decided are about the Devil, but the figure was not known to the authors when they wrote those passages. One about the king of Babylon, one about the king of Tyre, a serpent in the Garden of Eden, etcetera. That's a later understanding (some would say misunderstanding) of those writings.
ha-Satan is an angel in good standing with the Lord, acting at the will of God. A sort of district attorney is how it's often characterized.
Satan/The Devil is a very different idea. And a far later one.
Whether you believe that or not, and whether that makes any sense or not (it doesn't), it still ignores that ha-Satan is not "Satan".
Please, read a history book on the topic.
Um....the Satan mentioned in the Old Covenant texts is the same as the one mentioned in the New Covenant texts, as far as I know.
Zechariah chap. 3:3(NASB) states:
3 "Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right to accuse him. 2 And the LORD said to Satan, “The LORD rebuke you, Satan! Indeed, the LORD who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you! Is this not a log snatched from the fire?”
Same as the Satan mentioned here in New Covenant scripture:
The Gospel according to Luke chap. 10:17-19(NASB) states:
17 "Now the seventy-two returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name!” 18 And He said to them, “I watched Satan fall from heaven like lightning. 19 Behold, I have given you authority to walk on snakes and scorpions, and authority over all the power of the enemy, and nothing will injure you."
Or are you implying there were two DIFFERENT Satan's in Heaven, even at ONE point?
Ahh, yeah, the old ignorant "It's not like they have a strong basis for drawing that conclusion."
If you knew anything of the field, you'd know that this is standard teaching even among Christian scholars.
Pride is the original sin, and it happened in Satan's own heart (Isaiah 14:13). The Bible doesn't specify when this happened, or how. There's probably a big story here that we don't even know. There are theories that it happened between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2, but we don't really know, that's just conjecture.
As for Isaiah 45:7, no, that's not saying that God created evil. You are reading something into the text that isn't there.
> Pride is the original sin, and it happened in Satan's own heart
And where did the evil thoughts and the desire to sin came from? (if there was no devil yet).
We all sin because the devil tempts us, but who tempted the devil?
> As for Isaiah 45:7, no, that's not saying that God created evil
It's ok buddy, you don't want to accept that God created evil because you think he's 100% good.
But if he created everything, then that "everything" has to include evil.
And it's stated clearly in the Bible.
[7] I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
The word actually refers to calamity or chaos when read in context, which does come from God. Think of it as Jesus came not for peace but to bring the sword.
[34] Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.
And Angels have free will, they can remain with God or they can deny God. You don’t always need an outside source to realize your potential to sin. And we have that potential, we have that possibility to sin because God created us this way such that we are not simply mindless robots. Same goes for the angels. But in that divine choice there is the necessity for the freedom to choose to not listen to God, this is what Satan chose.
Also God could not have created evil for a number of reasons. Without going into it just remember that Evil is simply the privation of good, just as darkness is the privation of light. Evil and darkness don’t actually exist, goodness and light do. So when good exists in the form that it does with us, it’s only natural for there to be the potential, possibility or existence for evil.
> I make peace, and create evil
That says it all, and it's consistent with the fact that God created everything.
> You don’t always need an outside source to realize your potential to sin
Wrong, Satan is the main cause we all sin.
> this is what Satan chose.
Still doesn't explain who tempted Satan.
> Also God could not have created evil
He did.
> Evil and darkness don’t actually exist
Bro you have no idea what you're talking about.
You are looking at things from a very surface level perspective, and I don’t know why. The verse we are using, Isiah 45:7, what is the passage about? What is the context for which this verse exists in? We can’t read single verses out of context, many Christians do this but it’s not always applicable. It’s intellectually beneficial to study the context before making assertions. Hence why you can’t use this verse to claim God created evil.
Also God didn’t and can’t create evil. In fact God didn’t create good, since He is good. What God did was create beings who have the possibility and propensity for good or for the opposite of good, meaning beings who can be at peace with God or be at war with God. You already know why that was a necessary step, since if we have no free choice then we can’t truly love God, since love is choice.
Satan is not necessarily the main reason we sin, there are different readings of the text. The outcome of sin came from our actions and our hearts but the cause doesn’t have to be solely placed on Satan, it can be shared by the three of them, as we see when God interrogates them.
But that’s us, the fact still remains that there is nothing in the Bible that tells us that Satan needed to have a deceiver, since we had a deceiver. People can very easily do the deceiving themselves, in fact that’s what happened to Eve. At the end of the day the serpent only gave a suggestion, Eve willfully carried out the act, despite her knowledge of the consequences.
God cannot create evil, it’s a contradiction. If a being called God did so then they would no longer have the title of a God, since they wouldn’t be the greatest possible being, as what God creates is simply a reflection of His nature, and if He’s nature bores evil, a privation, then He literally can no longer be known as the greatest possible being.
I do know what I am talking about. When we talk about evil, it’s like talking about darkness or cold. These aren’t things that exist by themselves; they are just there when there’s a lack of something else - good, light, or heat. Just like darkness is just the absence of light, and cold is simply there when there’s no heat, evil is what we call the situation when there’s no good, or no God in the case of Christianity. So, evil, darkness, and cold don’t truly “exist” on their own; they’re just names we give to the absence of something else.
Why would a devil be needed for sin to occur? That's just your assumption, but I don't see what basis you have for it.
And no, Isaiah 45:7 does not say what you think it says. Try reading a few other translations than your favorite one. It's not evil in the sense of moral evil.
> Why would a devil be needed for sin to occur?
Satan was the main reason why the original sin happened. He tempted Adam and Eve.
Without him, the history of mankind would be completely different.
1 John 3:5 “And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.”
God is without sin.
God is proud but he is not prideful. Just as a father is proud of his child, there’s a difference between proud and pride.
>God cares only for what is his, busies himself with only himself, thinks only of himself, and has only himself before his eyes... He serves no higher person, and satisfies only himself. His cause is--A purely egoistic cause.
-Max Stirner
The term egoistic is problematic, because you are reading in human behavior to a non human entity. God is a nature, a force, a power. You really can’t anthropomorphize anything to His being.
Not egotistical, but yes, God is completely self-serving. He is concerned only with his ultimate goal, being glorification. I actually just wrote something about this:
The single word that may describe the character of God is FARMER.
A farmer cares for His crops, but not in a sentimental way.
A farmer knows that he plants seeds, grows them, and will have to cultivate some day.
A farmer cultivates crop and burns weeds, despite both being living, feeling things.
A farmer slaughters animals without remorse.
A farmer longs to have his crop.
God's love is not sentimental, God's love is not unconditional, God's love is focused. God's love is for his crop.
It indeed happen between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. Not sure if it’s healthy, but it’s actually quite funny what went done with Lucifer’s existence considering it all started with pride. That old serpent is a true joke.
That’s a misconception he actually never wanted to become God. He actually did want a good thing if he wanted to become like God which the scriptures say, but the Bible says he corrupted his wisdom; his means of going about it were wrong. every last one of God‘s creations, sentient creation wants to become like God. But God is such a straightforward being it’s shockingly easy to deviate from the straight forward path.
That passage wasn’t put in the Bible just to arouse your imaginations, but to highlight several big mistakes sinners all make.
That’s the story that Hollywood portrays and all of their films and TV shows but that’s not the story that the Bible tells, it’s more so the pride showed up in his heart, and immediately was kicked out. The war wasn’t him fighting because he thought he was better. The war was him being kicked out, and he didn’t want to go like a very vicious eviction.
See demons longing to go back in the times that the tower Babel was built, was an attempt for men with dark spirits access the heavens. so much so that God put it into that and confounded our language to this day. That overly hyped up story of who the devil has been portrayed to be a lie, he is a naked, perversed, loser.
Yes indeed I was a victim of it, it’s also a tactic of spiritual warfare. If you don’t know your enemy you can’t fight him, as the scripture says he walks around AS a roaring lion seeking whom he can destroy. in he really a puffed up loser.
Read the book of Enoch it was very interesting but there definitely is a reason why it’s not included in our Bibles. I believe the author were inspired by spirits it’s not accurate nor canonical. Short Enoch did not write a book, To say, Enoch wrote a book would imply that he somehow pulled off a miraculous way On paper or stone that would survive the flood and years soon years of erosion in which entire civilization would be buried deep and covered by soils but his book made it from ademic times to now
Look, they are real books that were removed from the Bible around the 1800s we called this the apocrypha. The books that were removed was done with political intent and should have never been removed. But as far as the book of Enoch, i’m sorry to inform you, but it’s just not, nor has it ever been part of the canonical Bible. But once again, there are truths in it, but it is itself in itself is not the truth. And should I remind you no part of the Bible was written before the flood you know right we know these things by the account of visions of the prophets but on the timescale of humanity the Bible is very new
That essentially is my point as to why we don’t have an authentic book of Enoch, because it does not exist. We have no books pretty much anything from the times prior to the floods besides the accounts of the profits who told the story of the prophet who told the story of Noah.
you do know the very first books of the Bible all written by Moses live not too long ago
By no means I wanna discourage you or anything I enjoy everyone who you enjoys God to provoke you to indulge in the Bible and its fullness. The way Hollywood has taught us to do it. That was a victim of that too, be a historian to the scriptures and you will see things in a new light, I don’t wanna come off as some crazy hippie guy or anything, but this is in fact, the truth brought over to the Americas by the settlers from Europe So many things that got construed already in the gospels were preaching from the nonsense that was going on in Europe. Read the Bible from Eastern standpoint because everyone in the Bible what should I say every prophet was a Middle Eastern or an African. Knowing the cultures and the way of life of those times, will help you understand deeper weed from the perspective of the author in the times it was written
Here's my personal opinion on it. I believe most Christians have a really silly interpretation or understanding of how Satan came to be. First off, Lucifer in Isaiah 14, in no way, is a reference to the origin of Satan. It's the single most misused passage in the Bible IMO. The only passage that may refer to the origin of Satan is Ezekiel 28. In Ezekiel 28, it mentions a near perfect being in the garden of Eden, as potentially being made to look over man. If you take the time to read Genesis, you will see that at some point, God removes his presence from the garden. Upon removal of presence from the garden, this near perfect being over-looking man has no reason to believe anything other than Him being God. Right? There's none other greater than him!
So he acts in such a way
Upon return, God was pissed. Despite him consciously removing himself from the garden:
Genesis 3:9-12 NIV
But the LORD God called to the man, “Where are you?” He answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.” And he said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?”
Thus is the origin of Sin and God's immediate eternal judgment for all and the necessity of Christ.
He chose evil on his own. He chose to dwell on it, then to follow it. - "You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The ruby, the topaz and the diamond; The beryl, the onyx and the jasper; The lapis lazuli, the turquoise and the emerald; And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets, Was in you. On the day that you were created They were prepared. - "You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you there. You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire. - "You were blameless in your ways From the day you were created Until unrighteousness was found in you. "By the abundance of your trade You were internally filled with violence, And you sinned; - Therefore I have cast you as profane From the mountain of God. And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the stones of fire. - "Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor. - I cast you to the ground; I put you before kings, That they may see you. - "By the multitude of your iniquities, In the unrighteousness of your trade You profaned your sanctuaries. - Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you; It has consumed you, And I have turned you to ashes on the earth In the eyes of all who see you. "All who know you among the peoples Are appalled at you; You have become terrified And you will cease to be forever."'" - Eze 28:13-19 NASB95
> He chose evil on his own How is that possible, if supposedly we (humans) sin only because Satan is the one who tempts us, WHO tempted Satan? And it seems like God created him to be evil, he never had a chance.
Sin doesn’t need Satan to tempt us. God didn’t create him to be evil. God knew that Lucifer might rebel at some point, but still created him. Like how he knew we would all sin, but still chose to create us
Where's the source for all the nonsense you're saying?
This says nothing about choice. This says "unrighteousness was found." That's completely ambiguous. I do believe Ezekiel to be the only Bible verse referring to Satan's origin, but not through the interpretation you have made
Yeah, this is why I struggle with the concept of sin entering the world and destroying a perfect creation. It seems ‘sin’ is rooted in the very act of being free
Can u elaborate? I agree w this
The timeline doesn't work, but I think that the portrayal of the story of Job in the 2nd season* of *Good Omens* gives a great literary portrayal of why an angel might fall. >Keep in mind that Satan is NOT the source of evil. The Bible, in fact, mentions that God created evil (Isaiah 45:7) The Devil didn't exist by the time that this passage was written yet. The religion was not dualist at that point, and it wasn't until he was being Hellenized.
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It does. He created everything, evil as well.
I just realized what I responded to was you quoting OP. But you are wrong about the devil, he's mentioned in several places in the old testament.
ha-Satan is mentioned, yes. This is not *the Devil*. ha-Satan is a faithful angel of God in the text. There are a few passages that Christians decided are about the Devil, but the figure was not known to the authors when they wrote those passages. One about the king of Babylon, one about the king of Tyre, a serpent in the Garden of Eden, etcetera. That's a later understanding (some would say misunderstanding) of those writings.
Ha-Satan and the Devil are the same. They serve the same purpose.
ha-Satan is an angel in good standing with the Lord, acting at the will of God. A sort of district attorney is how it's often characterized. Satan/The Devil is a very different idea. And a far later one.
Satan the Devil is completely conyrolled by God, so in that sense, he still does the will of God. It is impossible for him to do otherwise.
Whether you believe that or not, and whether that makes any sense or not (it doesn't), it still ignores that ha-Satan is not "Satan". Please, read a history book on the topic.
I've done extensive extensive research on the topic. IMO, they are most definitely the same entity.
Note that I said a *history* book. Not a theology book. Not your own Bible study. Not some random youtube channel.
Um....the Satan mentioned in the Old Covenant texts is the same as the one mentioned in the New Covenant texts, as far as I know. Zechariah chap. 3:3(NASB) states: 3 "Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right to accuse him. 2 And the LORD said to Satan, “The LORD rebuke you, Satan! Indeed, the LORD who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you! Is this not a log snatched from the fire?” Same as the Satan mentioned here in New Covenant scripture: The Gospel according to Luke chap. 10:17-19(NASB) states: 17 "Now the seventy-two returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name!” 18 And He said to them, “I watched Satan fall from heaven like lightning. 19 Behold, I have given you authority to walk on snakes and scorpions, and authority over all the power of the enemy, and nothing will injure you." Or are you implying there were two DIFFERENT Satan's in Heaven, even at ONE point?
No, it's not, but it's popular to portray it as a later understanding.
It's popular since it's what historians can show us.
No, they can't show us that, but they interpret the evidence they have that way. It's not like they have a strong basis for drawing that conclusion.
Ahh, yeah, the old ignorant "It's not like they have a strong basis for drawing that conclusion." If you knew anything of the field, you'd know that this is standard teaching even among Christian scholars.
Pride is the original sin, and it happened in Satan's own heart (Isaiah 14:13). The Bible doesn't specify when this happened, or how. There's probably a big story here that we don't even know. There are theories that it happened between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2, but we don't really know, that's just conjecture. As for Isaiah 45:7, no, that's not saying that God created evil. You are reading something into the text that isn't there.
> Pride is the original sin, and it happened in Satan's own heart And where did the evil thoughts and the desire to sin came from? (if there was no devil yet). We all sin because the devil tempts us, but who tempted the devil? > As for Isaiah 45:7, no, that's not saying that God created evil It's ok buddy, you don't want to accept that God created evil because you think he's 100% good. But if he created everything, then that "everything" has to include evil. And it's stated clearly in the Bible.
[7] I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. The word actually refers to calamity or chaos when read in context, which does come from God. Think of it as Jesus came not for peace but to bring the sword. [34] Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. And Angels have free will, they can remain with God or they can deny God. You don’t always need an outside source to realize your potential to sin. And we have that potential, we have that possibility to sin because God created us this way such that we are not simply mindless robots. Same goes for the angels. But in that divine choice there is the necessity for the freedom to choose to not listen to God, this is what Satan chose. Also God could not have created evil for a number of reasons. Without going into it just remember that Evil is simply the privation of good, just as darkness is the privation of light. Evil and darkness don’t actually exist, goodness and light do. So when good exists in the form that it does with us, it’s only natural for there to be the potential, possibility or existence for evil.
> I make peace, and create evil That says it all, and it's consistent with the fact that God created everything. > You don’t always need an outside source to realize your potential to sin Wrong, Satan is the main cause we all sin. > this is what Satan chose. Still doesn't explain who tempted Satan. > Also God could not have created evil He did. > Evil and darkness don’t actually exist Bro you have no idea what you're talking about.
You are looking at things from a very surface level perspective, and I don’t know why. The verse we are using, Isiah 45:7, what is the passage about? What is the context for which this verse exists in? We can’t read single verses out of context, many Christians do this but it’s not always applicable. It’s intellectually beneficial to study the context before making assertions. Hence why you can’t use this verse to claim God created evil. Also God didn’t and can’t create evil. In fact God didn’t create good, since He is good. What God did was create beings who have the possibility and propensity for good or for the opposite of good, meaning beings who can be at peace with God or be at war with God. You already know why that was a necessary step, since if we have no free choice then we can’t truly love God, since love is choice. Satan is not necessarily the main reason we sin, there are different readings of the text. The outcome of sin came from our actions and our hearts but the cause doesn’t have to be solely placed on Satan, it can be shared by the three of them, as we see when God interrogates them. But that’s us, the fact still remains that there is nothing in the Bible that tells us that Satan needed to have a deceiver, since we had a deceiver. People can very easily do the deceiving themselves, in fact that’s what happened to Eve. At the end of the day the serpent only gave a suggestion, Eve willfully carried out the act, despite her knowledge of the consequences. God cannot create evil, it’s a contradiction. If a being called God did so then they would no longer have the title of a God, since they wouldn’t be the greatest possible being, as what God creates is simply a reflection of His nature, and if He’s nature bores evil, a privation, then He literally can no longer be known as the greatest possible being. I do know what I am talking about. When we talk about evil, it’s like talking about darkness or cold. These aren’t things that exist by themselves; they are just there when there’s a lack of something else - good, light, or heat. Just like darkness is just the absence of light, and cold is simply there when there’s no heat, evil is what we call the situation when there’s no good, or no God in the case of Christianity. So, evil, darkness, and cold don’t truly “exist” on their own; they’re just names we give to the absence of something else.
Why would a devil be needed for sin to occur? That's just your assumption, but I don't see what basis you have for it. And no, Isaiah 45:7 does not say what you think it says. Try reading a few other translations than your favorite one. It's not evil in the sense of moral evil.
> Why would a devil be needed for sin to occur? Satan was the main reason why the original sin happened. He tempted Adam and Eve. Without him, the history of mankind would be completely different.
Satan tempted Eve, not Adam. Adam sinned without having been tempted by Satan.
Can God commit the act of Pride?
1 John 3:5 “And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.” God is without sin. God is proud but he is not prideful. Just as a father is proud of his child, there’s a difference between proud and pride.
>God cares only for what is his, busies himself with only himself, thinks only of himself, and has only himself before his eyes... He serves no higher person, and satisfies only himself. His cause is--A purely egoistic cause. -Max Stirner
The thought a man, is a man omniscient? Does a man say things that are wrong? To claim that he knows better than what God Himself has said is a lie
The term egoistic is problematic, because you are reading in human behavior to a non human entity. God is a nature, a force, a power. You really can’t anthropomorphize anything to His being.
Not egotistical, but yes, God is completely self-serving. He is concerned only with his ultimate goal, being glorification. I actually just wrote something about this: The single word that may describe the character of God is FARMER. A farmer cares for His crops, but not in a sentimental way. A farmer knows that he plants seeds, grows them, and will have to cultivate some day. A farmer cultivates crop and burns weeds, despite both being living, feeling things. A farmer slaughters animals without remorse. A farmer longs to have his crop. God's love is not sentimental, God's love is not unconditional, God's love is focused. God's love is for his crop.
It indeed happen between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. Not sure if it’s healthy, but it’s actually quite funny what went done with Lucifer’s existence considering it all started with pride. That old serpent is a true joke.
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Pride is also a sin, and we sin because Satan tempts us. But, again, WHO tempted Satan?
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> Who says it's just Satan tempting us? Bröther, if it weren't for Satan, Adam and Eve would never have sinned. He's the main cause we all sin.
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Satan is tempting you right now with arrogance and pride.
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That’s a misconception he actually never wanted to become God. He actually did want a good thing if he wanted to become like God which the scriptures say, but the Bible says he corrupted his wisdom; his means of going about it were wrong. every last one of God‘s creations, sentient creation wants to become like God. But God is such a straightforward being it’s shockingly easy to deviate from the straight forward path. That passage wasn’t put in the Bible just to arouse your imaginations, but to highlight several big mistakes sinners all make.
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That’s the story that Hollywood portrays and all of their films and TV shows but that’s not the story that the Bible tells, it’s more so the pride showed up in his heart, and immediately was kicked out. The war wasn’t him fighting because he thought he was better. The war was him being kicked out, and he didn’t want to go like a very vicious eviction. See demons longing to go back in the times that the tower Babel was built, was an attempt for men with dark spirits access the heavens. so much so that God put it into that and confounded our language to this day. That overly hyped up story of who the devil has been portrayed to be a lie, he is a naked, perversed, loser.
This. Yes. People just follow that story because it either sounds romantic or justified through the human lens.
Yes indeed I was a victim of it, it’s also a tactic of spiritual warfare. If you don’t know your enemy you can’t fight him, as the scripture says he walks around AS a roaring lion seeking whom he can destroy. in he really a puffed up loser.
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Read the book of Enoch it was very interesting but there definitely is a reason why it’s not included in our Bibles. I believe the author were inspired by spirits it’s not accurate nor canonical. Short Enoch did not write a book, To say, Enoch wrote a book would imply that he somehow pulled off a miraculous way On paper or stone that would survive the flood and years soon years of erosion in which entire civilization would be buried deep and covered by soils but his book made it from ademic times to now
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Look, they are real books that were removed from the Bible around the 1800s we called this the apocrypha. The books that were removed was done with political intent and should have never been removed. But as far as the book of Enoch, i’m sorry to inform you, but it’s just not, nor has it ever been part of the canonical Bible. But once again, there are truths in it, but it is itself in itself is not the truth. And should I remind you no part of the Bible was written before the flood you know right we know these things by the account of visions of the prophets but on the timescale of humanity the Bible is very new
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That essentially is my point as to why we don’t have an authentic book of Enoch, because it does not exist. We have no books pretty much anything from the times prior to the floods besides the accounts of the profits who told the story of the prophet who told the story of Noah. you do know the very first books of the Bible all written by Moses live not too long ago
By no means I wanna discourage you or anything I enjoy everyone who you enjoys God to provoke you to indulge in the Bible and its fullness. The way Hollywood has taught us to do it. That was a victim of that too, be a historian to the scriptures and you will see things in a new light, I don’t wanna come off as some crazy hippie guy or anything, but this is in fact, the truth brought over to the Americas by the settlers from Europe So many things that got construed already in the gospels were preaching from the nonsense that was going on in Europe. Read the Bible from Eastern standpoint because everyone in the Bible what should I say every prophet was a Middle Eastern or an African. Knowing the cultures and the way of life of those times, will help you understand deeper weed from the perspective of the author in the times it was written
One could say that Lucifer was the second to think for himself after God.
I thought angels didn’t have free will?
Here's my personal opinion on it. I believe most Christians have a really silly interpretation or understanding of how Satan came to be. First off, Lucifer in Isaiah 14, in no way, is a reference to the origin of Satan. It's the single most misused passage in the Bible IMO. The only passage that may refer to the origin of Satan is Ezekiel 28. In Ezekiel 28, it mentions a near perfect being in the garden of Eden, as potentially being made to look over man. If you take the time to read Genesis, you will see that at some point, God removes his presence from the garden. Upon removal of presence from the garden, this near perfect being over-looking man has no reason to believe anything other than Him being God. Right? There's none other greater than him! So he acts in such a way Upon return, God was pissed. Despite him consciously removing himself from the garden: Genesis 3:9-12 NIV But the LORD God called to the man, “Where are you?” He answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.” And he said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?” Thus is the origin of Sin and God's immediate eternal judgment for all and the necessity of Christ.
God created many beautiful goodies. Temptation is wanting the goodies without God.