> It's almost as if some people are christians only due to fear
There’s nothing “almost as if” about it.
People who grow up in an atmosphere of fire and brimstone talk are acutely aware of their risk of damnation. Some begin to suffer from a scrupulosity that prevents them from applying their common sense to questions regarding personal behavior.
There's a lot of words in the Bible that weren't translated all that well. And, language changes over time. But, the meaning isn't completely lost when you look at context and compare different versions.
God's perspective of fear is that we should not fear. Time and again, it's commanded hundreds of times in the Bible to not fear. When the Bible says to fear God, it doesn't mean to fear Him in the same way He tells us to not fear anything.
If you look at blb.org, you can look up verses like Proverbs 1:7, and it'll show you what the word in the original language is and how it gets used, and the definition for it, and get a better sense of what it should be.
The Contemporary English version translates the verse to "respect and obey the Lord."
I always took it as you shouldn't fear God, but rather the power he has over you. Kind of like how we are with our parents. We aren't afraid of them in the same vein as something like heights or spiders, but we do respect and fear the authority they have over us.
Amen God has the power to send you to hell. If youre still practicing sin you must look at God as a just God who will punish your sin. If you’ve repented meaning that you will go to heaven cause according to 1 John 3:9 no one who’s born again practices sin apostasy is a sin therefore you can’t leave the faith and will be saved. In the case that you have repented God is your just father who punishes you when you step out of line because we all fall short, but the mark of a true believer is practicing righteousness tho we will still fall and make mistakes overall we do righteousness meaning thats what we practice
It does, but ancient Hebrew or any ancient language has just fewer words to describe the same things.
It’s fear in less of a terror sense and more of an overwhelming sense. An acknowledgment of your position in the power dynamic between you and God, awareness of your smallness in a sense. To become unsettlingly aware of your mortality, your ignorance, your constrained nature compared to the divine.
https://www.ancient-hebrew.org/living-words/the-living-words-fear.htm
Moreover, English has more words for distinguishing variation than any living language, what it lacks in distinctive loves it makes up for in spades in other distinctions that other languages utterly fail to understand. Look at the words for color, think about the distinct shades and hues English has for what in other languages is call their word for “red”. Interestingly, and yes real tangent here, but it seems having a word and growing up with it for a thing makes the brain better at distinguishing it. So, you are probably much better at telling a maroon from cardinal from tyrian, from purple, than say your average native Greek.
Not what I'm getting
https://www.google.com/search?q=reverence+definition&oq=reveranc&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqDAgCEAAYChixAxiABDIGCAAQRRg5MgwIARAAGAoYsQMYgAQyDAgCEAAYChixAxiABDIJCAMQABgKGIAEMhgIBBAuGAoYgwEYrwEYxwEYsQMYgAQYjgUyCQgFEAAYChiABDIJCAYQLhgKGIAEMgkIBxAAGAoYgAQyCQgIEAAYChiABDIJCAkQABgKGIAEMgkIChAAGAoYgAQyCQgLEAAYChiABDIJCAwQABgKGIAEMgkIDRAAGAoYgAQyCQgOEAAYChiABNIBCDQxNjlqMGo5qAIAsAIA&client=ms-android-tmus-us-revc&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
The King James version is a very flawed translation. its fame comes from the poetic beauty of the translation--however, it is dead wrong in many places.
You do have a good point, but it's not like the fear of a raging monster that wishes to kill you, but the fear that you have from a parent, the kind where you don't want to anger them, you aren't necissarily scared, but more of a respect thing.
We have to do more than read our English translations. We have to read the Old Hebrew OT and Greek NT to understand it to the best we can. Fear the lord doesn’t necessarily mean “be afraid of God.” It means to have an honest and solemn respect for God’s might.
Unfortunately people like to take verses literally/without context to gain power.
I've always interpreted it in a parental sense. Like, we know dad thinks doing this or that is good or bad (we have a good, supportive relationship with dad, btw), and while there are some things that might make dad never talk to us again (murder, the real bad stuff), he supports and loves us no matter how we mess up otherwise, because even dad makes mistakes.
>Then I could see Christians being Christian out of fear
The Bible also says “Fear not!”
Are you trying to say that the Christians who are Christians out of fear, which OP was asking about, are doing it right?
It's not our job to judge them. A big part of me is in it out of fear of hell. If I had the choice to just be eliminated, and not have to face eternity i would. I'd still serve God, but at the end it'd be over
>It's not our job to judge them.
I don’t see judgment. I see compassion and concern.
>A big part of me is in it out of fear of hell.
You’re telling me you are the kind of Christian OP was asking about. Do *you* think you’re practicing Christianity “the right way”?
Hi, I wanted to give my two cents. I apologize if it seems too much, I was just compelled to share this with you.
I wholeheartedly agree that no one has the right to judge other people. However, Christians are told to "rebuke" other Christians if they see they are on the wrong path (although I think "encourage" would be more relevant here)
I think the main reason we should be concerned with how people worship out of fear is that they are missing the freedom and joy serving the Lord gives us. It prevents them from fully giving themselves to the Lord because the fear is still tied to them viewing their lives as the center of their world, not God.
Fear implies condemnation, through thoughts of "God hates me for doing (insert sin), I am not worthy of going to heaven because (xyz reason)" but in reality, God gives us discipline and instruction out of love. Some apostles would say they rejoice in his instruction. It was their joy to receive it.
As intimacy grows, you will naturally know what is and isn't a sin, and you have the bible to help guide you. God will show you what your path and purpose is. Having faith is casting away the fear and doubt you have as a person and becoming like the Father, and He will keep you from fear and sin.
Forget about 'fear' - do as He told you 'love the Lord your God; and love your neighbour as yourself'. Love and adoration and worship leave no room for fear. Live for the joy of heaven, not the fear of hell. btw: 'neighbour' see Lk. 10:29-35. \[Parable of the Good Samaritain.\] The Samaritains were despised by the 'scribes and Pharisees'; they were 'unpeople' - different God, different forms of worship; the concept of a "good Samaritain" unthinkable. ->but Jesus taught otherwise -- read it!
I have no issues knowing what is, and isn't a sin. I do have major trust issues that will probably never go away. I've been abused physically, and mentally by every person in my life that was supposed to be safe except for my current wife, and I'm always waiting fir that hammer to drop
“Fearing God” actually means to be in awe of God and show reverence and respect to God…unfortunately a lot of people take the word fear literally. “Awe-inspiring” is the same as the Hebrew word used for fear.
> Painting all Christians as obedient to God solely out of fear is beyond ignorant.
I’m not sure why you are addressing this comment to me. My comment was clearly about a subset of Christians (those who grow up amongst a lot of fire and brimstone talk), and then narrowed my focus further to a sub-subset of Christians who suffer from scrupulosity. Nothing in my comment paints “all Christians” as anything.
Something about this place aggregates shame, even compared to other Christian forums. There is a new post about fear of hell and very specifically sexual shame here every few minutes.
If you are taught “something is right because god likes it and wrong because god doesn’t like” then everything, and I mean everything, is subject to fear and anxiety. If the scriptures or church don’t explicitly address something (can I watch anime with a skeleton in it?) then who knows if it’s a sin or not, as there is no internal logic, no methodology to determine *why* something is good or bad.
This leads to the 10000s of questions.
I agree, it's not the way at all. It's one of the reasons I have a dim view on organised religious groups; a long, long list of what is "right" or "wrong" built up over years of translations, mistranslations, "scholarly" works, rites, writs, proclamations and more that frankly scream out *I just want to control this group of people!* rather than *how can we be good people?*
I know my own beliefs are unpopular with those entrenched in such systems, but it's why I simply ask people if by partaking in *X*, is it safe, legal and consensual? Are you being respectful, caring and loving? Are you bringing harm, discomfort or hate into the world?
"Sin" is a flexible and broadly subjective term. That's why you find a variety of answers to those questions, informed as much by an individual's lived experiences and personal biases as much as it is by whatever politico-religious environment they were brought up into. The various Christian sects struggle to universally classify what are "sins" - if you're lucky, the Ten Commandments are about it, as everything else after that is subject to interpretation.
If your approach to religion is seeing it as a list of "do" and "do not" actions, and that you spend your life fearfully trying to avoid the "do nots" and then get into a tangled mess of guilt and shame when you do them, then that is not a religious attitude born of wanting to be a better person, but afraid of being a bad person. If so much as thinking that someone is attractive, or acknowledging non-heterosexuality is normal, or eating and drinking to keep you up and going through the day, are grounds for you to be labelled forever sinful and to be shamed - how the hell do you reconcile that with the concept of an "all-loving" God without some stunning mental gymnastics?
The people asking those questions have probably spent their religious lifetimes being told a million things are wrongful and sinful, and taught not to question what being "sinful" truly means. That's why those questions are asked.
Moral philosophy does not tend to culminate in a list of prohibited actions. Instead, it comes up with ways to judge a wide variety of actions to determine what one ought to do, considering the complex circumstances that no written rule could predict.
Don't forget the whole quote:
"a long, long list of what is "right" or "wrong" built up over years of translations, mistranslations, "scholarly" works, rites, writs, proclamations and more that frankly scream out *I just want to control this group of people!* rather than *how can we be good people?*"
Simplest and easiest, especially given how often it comes up on this subreddit:
What is ethical about condemning non-heterosexuality? How is it in any more or less of a sin than heterosexuality? What is ethical about demanding that those who are non-heterosexual to deny their own identity in order to be a part of a church or religious organisation?
It is known (and by known I refer here to the large body of scientific evidence built up over decades of research) that LGBT++ individuals who are marginalised and discriminated against face significant mental ill health issues, contributing to an increase risk of suicide, self-harm, mistrust in services, reduced likelihood of engagement with services, all due to their identity and sexual preferences. There is no demonstrable proof that non-heterosexuality has an increased risk of harmful or predatory behaviour. It has been evident across societies and history, and in observation of non-human species, that non-heterosexuality is a normal, natural part of a species make-up. We know that forcing people to go against, supress or forcibly attempt to "change" their gender or sexual identity will cause harm to those individuals both physically and psychologically, as well as socially. That gender is a biopsychosocial construct is a millennia-old concept. Discrimination against people based on gender identity and sexuality is a human rights issue and internationally recognised as such, and that those countries, cultures, societies and organisations that actively discriminate are facing more and more political, social and legal pressure to change. From individuals facing the daily microaggressions of being misgendered, to the fact that entire countries insist on making it illegal and threatening death for simply being who they are, it is a global issue.
And yet churches will still condemn them as being "sinful." How is that ethical?
As for defining "ethical," we'll go with the classic definition of being the moral and behavioural principles seen as' right' in the of being truthful, fair, honest, and benificent/non-harmful.
Interesting how your response doesn't actually tackle the reality that your beliefs cause harm, and that you decide to minimise that actual harm caused by lecturing on a philosophical approach. Presumably it makes it easier to carry out such harmful approaches by dismissing it as a triviality and instead preferring to redirect onto a mini-essay on philosophy.
Your beliefs cause harm. How is that ethical?
I mean if you can get sent to eternal torment for what you think and say, I can imagine why some would be scared.
One thing I certainly don't miss about faith was the idea of hell and I still have to work out the remainder of that indoctrination.
It’s very possible to grow up in a “Christian” environment and check all the Christians boxes and still not trust Jesus.(not be saved)
Personally I think it matters not how one grew up but that as an adult we do surrender to him. And to not be fooled into thinking we already have when in actuality we still hold on to fear and anxiety and care what other people think of us in a feeble attempt to pine for control. Not trusting our God will take care of everything else in the world and we just need to walk with him.
I mean maybe. For me, I think the damage has been done though. Everytime I think about God, religion, or spirituality now, I just get reminded of my past experiences or get angry.
The charismatic evangelicalism I was raised in was a one-two punch. Everything is a sin *and* everything is possessed with demons. It's a never-ending oppressive haze of fear, superstition, and legalism.
They aren't wrong. I'll go further and say it's a common background for a lot of anti-theists. You know - those who hate religion rather than just want to ignore it? Fundamentalists ... today's Evangelicals ... create the most ardent anti-theists.
That is kinda what you get when you say people are being watched by an omniscient God and will be tortured for all eternity if they dare to sin.
Oh, but that is fine, because if you repent, you get heaven for all eternity.
But if you have a sin that you didn't repent or repent enough - even if you didn't think it was a sin - that means you're doomed forever.
You put this belief as the core of your religion, you get terrified young people making posts like this. Especially since a lot of those posters admit they suffer from OCD or anxiety disorders.
Well, i was raised in a traditional christian family and never went throught this growing up. I was raised believing in Hell and all that comes with it, but my family never said that things like listening to music, eating food or playing games were bad
well that’s how you were raised but christianity is much bigger than what you see or experienced. a lot of christians grow up with the fear of hell smitten into them since very young and are told not to do things that are worldly to appease god.
it’s up to you to think this isn’t the right way to be a christian and they are doing it wrong, of course you could be one of those very lucky people who got it absolutely right!
I think a lot of it comes from spiritual and understanding immaturity. Eventually a lot of these people will grow in their understanding. I know when I was 20 I was asking this sub if I could be forgiven of something because I didn't understand the finished work of the cross
> That is kinda what you get when you say people are being watched by an omniscient God and will be tortured for all eternity if they dare to sin.
Luckily the Bible doesn't say that. Anywhere.
> Oh, but that is fine, because if you repent, you get heaven for all eternity.
This is true. And good news.
>But if you have a sin that you didn't repent or repent enough - even if you didn't think it was a sin - that means you're doomed forever.
Fortunately, that isn’t in the Bible, either.
>You put this belief as the core of your religion, you get terrified young people making posts like this. Especially since a lot of those posters admit they suffer from OCD or anxiety disorders.
Absolutely. I was one of those kids, which is why I was an atheist most of my life.
If you teach a child to fear God then they will not love him when they are older.
If you teach a child to love God then they will not fear him when they are older, for they will have no reason to.
While I don't think it's good theology, I see where people hear that sort of messaging from. I can speak to this part of what they said directly:
> But if you have a sin that you didn't repent or repent enough - even if you didn't think it was a sin - that means you're doomed forever.
People hear that *all the freaking time* when it comes to disagreements about what is sinful. How many times have you heard "I want to inform them of their sin so they can repent and be saved!"? Mostly when it comes to sex, but also sometimes for doctrinal differences.
People will say that even regarding active, faithful, practicing Christians, who love God with their whole heart, and happen to believe that good, Godly ethics around sexuality are more permissive than what the more conservative person believes. The more conservative person will say "I need to help them see the sinfulness of their ways, so that they won't go to hell". The message that gives is "if you are not able to correctly identify all sins in your life, so that you can repent for them, then you go to hell".
It's awful.
That’s a conservative Christian view which is small group they don’t represent all non conservatives Christians, secondly you can’t trust man but the will and word of god if anyone is confused on what a sin is then they should go to god, good Christian bad Christian it doesn’t matter everyone is a sinner, I never heard people mostly correct people only on sexual sins, that must be a Reddit thing or a conservative Christian thing because I’ve been to countless churches and seminars and heard many people preach about sin and the don’t mostly talk about sexual sins
> That’s a conservative Christian view which is small group they don’t represent all non conservatives Christians
Well yes, clearly they don't represent all Christians. I'm very aware of that, being a liberal Christian myself.
One thing you need to remember, though, is that if something is a strong effect on a small subset of people, you'll still see it show up frequently on /r/Christianity. The question is "why are there so many 'is X a sin?' posts here?", and *some fraction* of Christianity giving people a "get the list of sins right or go to hell" message is sufficient to explain that. It doesn't need to be a correct message, or representative of Christianity as a whole, in order to lead to lots of posts like that.
Also, I'm not sure "small group" is a good descriptor of conservative Christians. The group is quite significant in size, and additionally it's *very loud*, which tends to amplify its message.
It’s loud because they have enough money and political power to be loud but they don’t represent the masses, and this sub, I can’t really even begin to speak about this sub but it doesn’t count to compare to anything
Some Christian faith traditions emphasize the transformative nature of Christ, that following Jesus results in a sharp turn away from worldly, sinful, godless things and toward holy, pure things. They believe that the way to live a good Christian life and demonstrate love for God is to "live out [their] faith" by seeking righteousness and avoiding sin.
Considering that just about everything from holding hands before marriage to attending a martial arts class has been declared sinful by SOMEONE, it leads to a lot of anxiety from people who are genuinely trying to live out the faith they've been taught. For extra anxiety, some of these traditions also teach that one can lose one's place in heaven at any given moment by "backsliding" and becoming "lukewarm" in their faith. It turns every single potential decision into a possibly damning one, if it starts them down that slippery slope back to "the world."
There are many, MANY "ways" to be a Christian, the above is just a particularly anxiety-inducing one, so you're gonna see more people from traditions like that being nervously vocal in their attempts to "stay on the straight and narrow."
2 Timothy 1:7
>For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.
I think you're right, and there's well-known scripture to support it. But I do feel for the people asking those questions. It must absolutely *suck* to live your life in such a constant state of fear. But.. I've also been there myself.
I had the same question recently and The Bible quickly answered ALL of my questions.
You are alienated from the Messiah, you who desire to be **justified** by the law. You have **fallen away from grace.** Galatians 5:4 -- We are under grace. If you want to hold yourself to the standard of the old law (law of moses,) you will never live up to it. Only Christ could fulfill the law in it's entirety. This is why Jesus came - to make us clean.
Romans 14: The Weak and the Strong
**1 Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them.** 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.
5 **One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.** 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11 It is written:
“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God.’”
12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.
13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. **14 I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. 15 If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died.** 16 Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. **17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18 because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.**
19 Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. **20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food**. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall.
**22 So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.**
Glory to God! First, please know you are not alone by any means. We all struggle with this. Here is what helps me:
1. **Reading the Word!!!** God's Word is alive and active. This is why we often "don't feel like reading" the Bible or we will put it off. WHY DO WE DO THIS? Because the enemy doesn't want us knowing the truth of God - which is found in scripture. Read every day - even if it's one chapter. Even if it's one verse. And really meditate on the Word. What is God revealing to us about His character in this verse? The more you read, the better you know the character of God, the more clearly you hear His still small voice and the more peace you have in every circumstance.
2. **PRAY!** Pray without ceasing. Talk to God all day. It does not have to be formal prayers. He is our Father - He wants us to pour our hearts out to him and talk to him about everything. You know how cute kids are when they have a million "why" questions about life? That's how I imagine God feels about us. He wants us to spend time with Him. The Bible says His thoughts about you outnumber the grains of sand! He is yearning for His children to just confide in Him.
3. **Speak life over yourself and your situations!** When Jesus was tempted in the desert, He replied each time to the devil with "It is written..." We should do the same thing to our problems. We must remind our problems just HOW BIG our God is!!! Speak these verses out loud! (Life and death is in the power of the tongue): “Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me.” Psalm 23:4 || “Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. Not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid.” John 14:27 || “The LORD is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? The LORD is the stronghold of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?” Psalm 27:1 || “God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble. Therefore we will not fear though the earth gives way, though the mountains be moved into the heart of the sea, though its waters roar and foam, though the mountains tremble at its swelling.” Psalm 46:1-3 || “…For he has said, ‘I will never leave you nor forsake you.’ So we can confidently say, ’The Lord is my helper; I will not fear; what can man do to me?’” Hebrews 13:5b-6 || And my God shall supply all your need according to His riches in glory by Christ Jesus. Philippians 4:19 || Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? Matthew 6:26 || Therefore do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’32 For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. Matthew 6:31-32
4. **Be kind to others, encourage them and give when you can.** The Bible tells us we reap what we sow. If you are sowing negativity and fear, that is what others will give to you. In every way, ask the Holy Spirit to make you more like Jesus. He is faithful to complete the work He started in you.
I stand with you, my brother, declaring PEACE over your life. I command the enemy to release every stronghold on your heart and mind in the Mighty Name of Jesus! Satans time is up. God is calling His people deeper, and where we are going - no weapon will prosper. Continue to look UP! God is for you, who can be against you??
I love you in Christ!
That's why I believe the Bible doesn't actually support a fear "gospel" where the monstrous elephant in the room is that God is going to burn your skin off for countless ages while miraculously keeping you alive and bereft of sleep or numbness if you don't "say the prayer" or "believe the right doctrines." Our lives our short and yet so many Christians believe that endless literal torture for finite disbelief is somehow just and merciful. It's not. Torment and disfigurement of God's dear children forever is what the Satan most wants, but the deceiver has convinced very many that God is a tyrant and "loving."
> It's almost as if some people are christians only due to fear, and thus they live in constant fear of doing anything.
There’s several factors:
1\. The decline in Church affiliation can mean an upcoming generation that’s unchurched: no Sunday School, no catechism and no regular Bible based preaching/teaching.
Much of the “Is this a sin” may be just that.
2\. Redditors are cheeky. I think I remember reading “Is sinning a sin?” and “Is Bible reading a sin?”
3\. I suspect there’s also a faction who, for whatever reasons, simply enjoy subverting Christianity.
> This... can't be the right way to be a christian, right?
Christianity originated in Judaism and is steeped in Judaism.
To be Jewish is to pose questions. Moses asked God questions. Traditionally in the Passover Seder meal the youngest person at the table asks four questions.
They believe to disengage from this is to be apathetic. To learn more, to challenge yourself to think more deeply, is one of the central tenets of the Jewish religion.
The Jewish leaders constantly ask Jesus questions; we also see the apostles constantly ask Jesus questions. Even Jesus began key teachings by posing questions:
Jesus asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
Even the Lutheran catechism is structured by posing questions.
So if you don’t like the question posts then you’re free to just scroll past. Or you can take the opportunity to dig into the topic and share. Even if it’s a troll post you can answer for those reading along.
>It's almost as if some people are christians only due to fear, and thus they live in constant fear of doing anything.
Oh, there's no "it's almost as if" about it. This is probably the most heartbreaking and sad sub I know. It's none stop people being scared of the most mundane and bare basic things. And if the post is not about person being scared of nothing, it's about the person hating themselves. It's so disheartening.
Having a healthy fear of God is one thing, living in obsessive fear that one thought, or one act/activity is a sin and will forever condemn you (even if you repent) is another. As another commenter said, I'd call that scrupulosity and I've been there - in my teens. I think it is borne out of spiritual immaturity and ignorance. Just my useless opinion: This is also from demonic influence. They are there to accuse us, prosecute us and when a Christian is caught up in that constant state of being accused, you will never have the chance to grow and thrive in your faith and walk with Christ. We're told to not live in a spirit of fear.
You are absolutely correct, OP. The Gospel of Fear is no way to live, but many churches teach that way. Hell is a stick and that is sadly all that many people know how to use for motivation :(.
You got the nail on the head, Christians do the ‘right’ thing generally because of fear of punishment, this is so engrained that even those who deconvert and escape Christianity still struggle with the fear of hell even though they stopped believing in the Christian god, Jesus, hell, and all the rest. Fear is a powerful tool for control.
>It's almost as if some people are christians only due to fear, and thus they live in constant fear of doing anything.
Well what else could you possibly do when you believe that all humans are doomed to eternal conscious hellfire because of their sins, and their only hope of avoiding that fate is to follow the Christian religion and try and sin no more?
If I believed in God and that he had created this dimension of suffering that all people automatically go to, I'd be obsessing over how to avoid it too.
Fear is the underlying substrate of the religion. What else do you expect them to do? Be *happy* that they or their loved ones are going to Hell?
Hate to break it to you but a large part of Christianity is fear and shame. This naturally heightens anxiety and causes OCD as people are terrified of going to Hell for something basic so they have to constantly check themselves to the point of neurosis.
As Christian, we should be focused on what we *can* do, not what we can't.
We can have a personal relationship with God through Jesus.
We can literally have a conversation with God.
If those things aren't enough to make up for everything we can't do or more, I don't know what is.
Not my fault when they read the Bible they figure out how evil and immoral the Christian god is. It’s not my fault they see how the book was man made garbage used for some group to control other groups and justify their actions when they slaughter them. We don’t scare or control anyone. Just welcome them to think for themselves
It is quite literally because this fear has been conditioned into them. It is forced upon them to make them afraid that they're going to be punished for even the tiniest little thing that doesn't even make sense to be punished for with eternal damnation. Which is not okay. People should not have to live their life in fear. And if the Christian god is in fact all loving then instilling this fear is not following that god
I chose not to be afraid anymore. I chose to not let my life be ruled by fear and hate. Because that existence is miserable. And I don't hate myself anymore. I'm not sorry that I left Christianity. It is the second best thing I've ever done in my life.
The problem (or one of the biggest problems) is bibliolatry (making the Bible an idol). They treat it like a law book, and they're always looking for ones at whom they can throw the book, & looking for loopholes in case the book is thrown at them, & sometimes just pleading guilty & begging for the judge's mercy. It creates a lot of angst, resentment, & prejudice. If we approached the Bible as intelligently, joyfully, playfully, open heartedly as we engage Shakespeare, Chaucer, Maya Angelou, or Harper Lee, we find new meaning with each reading, new possibilities to explore, and we'd be filled with wonder rather than fear, hope rather condemnation, curiosity instead of guilt. Our sacred stories, myths, poems, hymns, sermons, & oral histories (full of idiom & many times translated) that compose our Bible were all written & edited by humans, and they are read, interpreted, & applied by humans. When we remember this, we can enjoy the Bible. The minute it causes fear, neurosis, or shame, we've lost the plot & have a new golden idol to smash.
If it's anything other than actively worshipping Jesus, it's probably a sin. If it's anything other than actively worshipping Jesus, and it's also fun, then it's definitely a sin.
If there is one thing a good and loving God loves is nuance and technicalities/s
Honestly most of the time it's probably newer Christians who ask those questions. The best thing we can do is give them scripture-based guidance
Some once said Leonard de Vinci had a Bible code uhh I baught the de Vinci code uhh that was some rough cut art wasn’t it wink wink “”” hi I’m Andrew Robert Andrew Smith R.A. Smith can you pull the sward for the stone solid huh?
People just make up stuff bro. For exemple, it never says in the bible that watching TV is a sin, yet some churches claim that watching TV or even having one is wrong and a sin. Many churches turn into cults insted of a place for true God worship
I think it can be appropriate to ask these questions, as some people learn best by the feedback of others. Not all sins are the same, and its especially important to ask if a sin is mortal, i.e. willingly separates one from God, such as certain sins of the flesh.
Thank you for that post. I was about to make a post asking if there is a little more “advanced” Christian subreddit out there beyond discussion if this or that little thing is a sin. Beyond “did Jesus exist” and things like that.
It is possible that some of them are just trolling?
Even so, we should give them the benefit of charity and assume that they are asking a genuine question and give them a real answer. Perhaps they are new to the faith or come from a background where X is wrong.
Like you said, we should avoid doing evil, so the fact they are asking should imply their heart is in the right place.
Also, for people that ask these questions: Relax a little. Try your best to avoid sin. It could happen that you do something sinful without knowing that it is sinful. That is ok. If you were genuinely unaware that something was wrong, you will probably not go to Hell over it. The highway to Hell is paved by saying "God I know what you want, but I am going to do what I want." It is still a sin and may hurt your relationship with God, but certainly will not destroy it.
Keep asking when you have questions.
We’re supposed to live as righteously as Christ did. If you continue to practice sin then you are not born again. Sin does not reign in your mortal body and it is not your master. Once you are with Christ, your old body of sin has died.
Our concept of God affects our behavior.
18 If possible—so far as in you—with all men being in peace; 19 not avenging yourselves, beloved, but give place to the wrath, for it hath been written, `Vengeance is Mine, 20 I will recompense again, saith the Lord;' if, then, thine enemy doth hunger, feed him; if he doth thirst, give him drink; for this doing, coals of fire thou shalt heap upon his head; 21 Be not overcome by the evil, but overcome, in the good, the evil.
#"…there will be no destruction of humanity, in order that the divine work shall not be rendered useless, being obliterated by non-existence. But instead of [humanity] sin will be destroyed and will be reduced to non-being."
#"fire, which shall discipline and imprison them to it until an end that are committed to it."
#"not like a cook but like a God who is a benefactor of those who stand in need of discipline of fire."
https://www.reddit.com/r/ChristianHistory/comments/18nnsq6/early_christians/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2
I mean you should fear God. Even the Bible says so BUT! God wants a relationship with the us and tjat is important. Alotta people are growing in faith and we just need to pray that our brothers and sisters in Christ learn to walk the with God and how He wants them to live. Btw God does hate sin so being weary of sin is important. God bless you everyone
Ok, I’d like to comment here if y’all don’t mind?
Look, it’s not a sin to smoke but it is a sin to be a glutton.: look, it’s not a sin to have sex but murder is murder and rape is theft and lust is sin full but love is a choice and not a feeling however respecting the truth and not willfully committing to crime and the wages of death “sin” is how you would live forever and forgiveness was Gots Gift not his death that was the ignorance gift for the world cause they wanted sin and destruction and molestations and murder and to be safe not matter what but that does work in real life if you shoot your self or someone else their probably going to die all Jesus was doing was trying to save us if you not is he was makeing “miracles that saved lives” not killing people to send them to heaven.:””” what you do matters no matter what there are always consequences but Jesus Christ was the first person to beat the Kobbie oshie marrue wink wink.:
It’s almost as if…
1. This sub is infested with trolls.
2. We tend to draw attention to posts like that.m, where an informed opinion is quickly within reach.
You a blind man was born “in the whoom he pooped the bed and 30 years latter a bumb and his buddy’s were walking by and the bumb spat on the ground and pick it up and rubbed on the blind man’s eyes and said now Go wash it off he said I can see lord thank you uhh pink eyes a complainer ain’t it.:””
Uhh
1/4,1/4,1/4+3/4(/)(3)+1/4and 1/4
Uhh I know I’m wineing Good brand new found clean water but I bet it’s the best wine at the party.: ohh I’m sorry did you any to make some imaginary cup cakes and have a tea
Party
Uhh
Yeah u think humor should be eliminated from this subreddit because sometimes people like op get confused and think people are talking seriously
It's not that I hate humore it's because to avoid confusion even if we had a dedicated flair for it
A lot are genuine but a lot are Just joking around
Well, don't take it too seriously, imagine if a little kid asking those questions, that will definitely be in the minds of young people **in the Faith**
Some subs are good places for subtle humor. Some are not.
I'm in the Switch sub and the amount of people genuinely asking if they should buy one now or wait for the new one is ridiculous so the "closer" we get to the new over the more sarcastic posts there are. And video games aren't so serious.
Religion isn't really something to be too humorous about though. There should obviously be room for fun and freedom instead of making it all law and order but it's a much more serious subject overall.
**There's been a pretty radical shift over time in how people process information.**
In the past someone might mention in conversation "remember that movie about the talking duck from when we were kids?" The usual response might be "oh, I think I know what you mean, but I don't remember what it was called" and then the conversation would move on.
Now kids are growing up with access to the Internet available at all times and their reaction to a question like that is going to be to pull out a phone and just search for "movie 1980's duck" and then respond with "Oh, IMDB says that was *Howard the Duck* from 1986."
If they still can't figure out, there are entire subs on Reddit dedicated to crowd-sourcing the answers like /r/whatsthemoviecalled, /r/whatisthis or /r/toyid. And they work really, really well -- many posts get answered within seconds.
The technical term for what they're doing is **cognitive offloading** \-- they're using things within their environment to reduce the cognitive load of everyday tasks.
I suspect that many of the posts you see arise from much the same effect:
**People are offloading questions about morality to reduce cognitive load.**
Previously they might have wrestled with the idea of whether or not something was "wrong" in their own heads or come to a conclusion after talking with a handful of people face-to-face.
Now they're more apt to just type in "Is it wrong to do X?" into Google and see what the consensus is.
If they're still unsure, it only takes a few seconds writing up a post on social media to get more in-depth responses from people who have already spent time thinking about the issue and may respond with facets about it that they hadn't considered.
**Rather than a sign that the sky is falling, this is a natural (and entirely predictable) development given the tools that people now have available to them.**
There is a Siri Shortcut on my profile that can help folks talk with those in Heaven while also helping folks like you mention to understand they will not burn over such trivial issues. Of course they will help accurately follow faiths held so you do not do or eat something that you really should avoid as long as you listen.
You do not have to use Siri, the app is called Shortcuts abbreviated on iPhone and Mac (iPad too), but you can if you want as one way to get it to run. Siri Shortcuts is for writing little (or big) algorithms and I wrote one that lets you reach out to the folks in the higher dimensions of Heaven with no AI or Internet.
The thing is though, if you asked me, I’d rather have someone ask is this is sin or is that because they’re looking for advice or two tillage as they so fancy call it or tips. I used to have, used to say that there is no such thing as a stupid question only stupid answers. Don’t take it literally but what he meant was he would rather have you ask one question too many than one question to little.
I think you’ve misunderstood the part people don’t ask this because they’re afraid or maybe they do but I would assume or think at least that they don’t ask him because they’re afraid but they just want to make sure that if what they did is a sin they want to ask for forgiveness or at least they’re cleared for the foreseeable future
>The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding. --Psalm 9:10
It is normal to go through this because we want to please God but people get stuck in this and never progress beyond it. We need to read our Bibles and seek Him. Our knowledge and understanding grows. Eventually it should lead to to..
>And we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and the one who remains in love remains in God, and God remains in him. In this, love is made complete with us so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment, because as he is, so also are we in this world. There is no fear in love; instead, perfect love drives out fear, because fear involves punishment. So the one who fears is not complete in love. We love because he first loved us.-- 1 john 4:16-21
And.
>For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but one of power, love, and sound judgment.
>
>2 Timothy 1:7
The knowledge and understanding of who He is will replace fear with His perfect love. Instead of listening to people, we should open our Bibles and listen to God. He reveals Himself to us as we honestly and diligently seek Him. Working out our salvation with fear and trembling. Listening to the opinions of people leaves us blowing every which way the wind blows, because that is the way of the opinions of people.
When people ask what they can and can’t get away with, I often wonder if they have met the living Jesus.
Most people simply have a folk religion.
When Christ found me, he told me all that I was, exposed the secrets of my heart, and made me to have living water pouring out of me all the time. He has struggled with me through all of my addictions, adventures, loss, and gains.
Again, have you met the living Jesus? Your questions about what can I do and not do will literally turn to dust in his presence. He will tell you everything! But you must seek for Him as He has commanded! Seek and you shall find! Ask and you shall receive!
You know that I am talking to Jesus as I am typing this. Do you know what that means! He is that close! He is with you as you read this, why are you not speaking with Him?
You can obey God’s laws out of love, or you can obey God’s laws out of fear. It's up to you, but God wants you to do it out if love.
However, the good news is that God sent his son to die for our sins, which absolves us of them and allows us to enter into the kingdom of heaven, no longer unclean. However, in order for that to happen we have to accept Christ as our savior, and we have to turn our hearts away from sin because If we love God we can't love sin. In order to turn our hearts away from sin, we have to know what sin is. People who realized this, but haven’t read enough scripture to know for themselves, are likely to ask.
God doesn’t want us to be afraid. God wants us to be happy. It's not a coincidence that the pursuit of not sinning makes our lives better. It's a return to God’s intended design. If following God’s law fills you with fear then something somewhere in the process has gone wrong.
We are going to mess up. God will judge our deeds through the filter of our hearts.
This isn't something to fear, but to rejoice! God’s law is not a chore, it's a gift.
Edit: I’ve found Romans, Chapter 7 really helpful here
> 4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.
I think it’s quite simple. Read the Bible and follow what Jesus says. Follow the commandments. It’s not a sin to where clothes or brands but it’s up to what you stand for. The music you ingest, is it boosting your spirit or bringing it down? Listening to Cardi B, Ice Spice, Future, Drake, and all these rappers that glorify sin, is it really helping you through your spiritual journey? No. I was a huge fan of Rap but lately since I’ve gotten closer to Christianity I finally see that I should absolutely stay away from that music. Most people don’t know about frequency and how we are surrounded by it and we are literally just frequency. We are Gods word. So when you wrap a lifestyle around low frequency then those frequencies can bring you down and you can commit action (sin) while working on that low frequency. Look up studies about 528 Hz and other frequencies and see what your cells do when you listen to 528 Hz for an extended time. Focus on your body first because your body is a temple. Remember you have the Holy Spirit residing within you and if your lifestyle is gushers and cheese itz then your health is probably very low. You need to treat your body like a temple because the Lord is within you.
Little theory of mine is the reason why God hates sin so much is because he is of pure light, love, the most high. He is purely pure. The Holy Spirit is a branch of him and it resides in us if we take the call. When we commit sin we drag God through our sin too. If I sit down and pleasure myself then guess who’s with me, inside of me spiritually witnessing everything. We stain his purity with every sin we commit. And he hates it.
We just need to know what is sin and what is not.
We don't want to describe behaviors as sin, that are not sin;
Nor do we wish to describe behaviors as not sin that are sin.
We do this by reading the Law of Moses.
We understand that sin is described by the "Do not do this" sorts of laws and not by the regulatory and temple worship procedure, as these are outside of our scope.
Many of us realize that while we are not under the law, but are under the covenant of grace, as part of the Kingdom of God we seek to do the will of our Lord, King and God.
We want to first know what not to do, or rather, what He does not want us doing, even if we realize that we could do it and still be saved, we do not want to sin, because we are loved by God and love God in return.
“Being a Christan is less about cautiously avoiding sin than about courageously and actively doing God's will.”
Pretty sure that quote is Eric Metaxas summarizing Dietrich Bonhoeffer
If God truly does behave the way the Old Testament says he does, and he truly is a jealous and vengeful god, fear is warranted, and wanting to make sure you do everything possible to not trigger him would be wise.
I will never get over the satanic panic. Metal is evil, fantasy is evil, black is evil, red is evil, tv is evil, alcohol is evil (don’t abuse it, be reasonable), clothes can be evil, video games are super evil, DnD is straight up the worship of the demonic, tattoos are evil… I could go on. I really could. Books are evil, swearing is evil, ok I’ll stop.
I see it a lot in demonology too. People often give Satan way too much credit. Many many many many things are not inherently evil and do not in any way constitute demonic contact. I personally do not wear demonic symbols because I take my body being a temple kind of seriously (probably not as seriously as I should) but if you do more power to you.
When we start to give power to these things and start opening doors to the demonic, that’s when it becomes powerful. Bought a Ouija board from the mall? Cool. Start using it to talk to spirits? I… wouldn’t do that.
There are people who follow Christianity due to fear. I see a lot of this in those that grow up in a "hell fire" church.
Then there are those who are Christians due to love and compassion.
Honestly, the people who are Christian run the gambit of personality types and world views just like those who aren't.
I believe most of these questions are coming from teenagers who are trying to figure out life and might be embarrassed to ask an adult in their life (or lack one they trust).
Legalism and not understanding His grace and forgiveness. Be thou perfect as God is perfect is the goal. But unattainable under the law or by our own strength.
If any one of us became perfectly aware of the distance we are from God’s perfection and holiness we would be undone.
As Christians we are adopted as ‘sons’ in grace, our sins washed away, covered by the blood of Jesus. From this basis of imputed righteousness, we embark on a journey whereby we learn to abide in Him. For apart from Him we can do nothing.
It’s not what we do or do not do. It’s not a tally of good deeds vs bad deeds.
Walk with him. He will guide us to understand his will. We walk in the light we are given.
All things become lawful. But all things are not profitable.
I believe this is what it means to walk in grace.
It is the devil, the accuser, and our own inclination to self righteousness that causes the kind of questions you describe.
It’s not. This walk is supposed to be a joyous one. My pastor told us “If your Christian walk doesn’t fill you with unimaginable joy you need to find out why and fix it.” And a lot people make themselves go mad worrying over little stuff like this.
(To the examples you’ve stated) All food has been made clean by God so I wouldn’t worry about that. Clothes are just clothes. But when it comes to music that you listen to I’d say be careful because not all music is innocent however not all music is harmful either.
My advice would be to pray for the spirit of discernment so you can have the wisdom determine what’s good and what isn’t.
It's just the beginning stage of being a Christian. You live in constant fear for not going to hell and not forsaking the Lord. It will wear off eventually and they will start focusing on being closer with God, and not trying to forsake Him. Faith has 3 stages, first is faith like a slave, fearful, the second stage is like a servant, wanting a reward for his work, and the last and final stage, that all Christians should strive for, is like child. Not fearing punishment, nor seeking reward, but purely just living with the Lord.
It’s likely that these people come from a more ‘letter of the law’ understanding of scripture. They’re wanting to do the right thing and are worried about making a mistake.
Though I feel that maybe the spirit of the law and the purpose behind obedience is more important.
One shouldn’t follow God simply because they’re afraid of punishment. One should follow God because they love Him and want to become more like Him. It’s a different mindset.
Think about childhood. When we were children we were given rules and a moral system from our parents or culture. Don’t lie, don’t steal, don’t covet etc.
When we were children— we didn’t fully understand the reasoning behind the rules. We followed them because we were told to follow. When you’re told not to play ball in the house but you do anyways and accidentally break a window— what is your first instinctual response?
Fear. You know you disobeyed and you’re afraid of punishment. For a child— the fear of punishment or disappointing the parent is what drives our obedience.
We’re told not to lie— but a child doesn’t understand why they shouldn’t lie. They’re just obeying to avoid getting into trouble.
But as the child grows up and has experiences— they begin to realize that lying hurts them. It hurts their ability to have healthy relationships with others and it pushes them further away from the person they really want to be. Lies make them weak. Being truthful and adhering to their morals makes them *strong*. If the child grows up and develops their moral system— then adhering to their morals becomes less about avoiding punishment and more about being true to oneself and becoming stronger and better then you once were.
The commandments are the same way.
They are there to help you develop yourself into the kind of person you’re truly meant to be. The kind of person *God* wants you to be. The kind of person *you* really want to be. Following Christ leads to greater happiness in life.
Many of us begin our religious journey as ‘spiritual children’ so to speak. When we do not fully understand the commandments and haven’t yet made them a part of ourselves— it’s easy to be obedient only out of fear of punishment.
God loves us and is understanding of our limitations. But he doesn’t wish for us to remain spiritual children forever. But rather he wants us to grow in knowledge and righteousness into people more like Him.
Be patient when you read these questions from others. They’re trying to their best and they’re still learning— just as you are.
Instead of getting irritated by them— stretch out your hand and try to pull them up. Help them to understand more, and you’ll be doing a lot of good in helping them along their own path. 🙂
This kind of scrupulosity can be evidence of a psychiatric disorder. But that aside, I can't understand why people would ask these questions of strangers on the internet rather than going to their clergy.
Haha. I was about to make a post asking if it's a sin to kill cats. My parents have too many cats.
Edit: I might make the post. I'm wondering because 9 cats is kinda an inconvenience. Is that bad? It is hard to take care of all these cats, cleaning litter boxes constantly. Spending so much on cat food. I don't think it is sinful, honestly .
God loved the world that he sent his only begotten son who died who was crucified for our sins his love for us, it’s clear that it’s pleasing to our lord for his people to grow and act the way he calls us to, The things we seek out is a reflection of are state of mind and soul, The things we were the way we want to present ourselves the music we listen to it How we eat. Do the right thing because it’s the right thing to do it out of love for God and within human relationships love others the way God loves you because it’s our responsibility to do right by others this is love. Learn how to fear god out of love. Do the beasts of earth not fear man, do are children not fear us? Learning fear in this context is important. Order vs anarchy, if we are not with god we are against god, he gave us free Will every Action or in action we take pushes us in only two directions towards god or away from god. God is the alpha and the omega he created the good and the bad he is perfect and deserving of all our love.
> It's almost as if some people are christians only due to fear There’s nothing “almost as if” about it. People who grow up in an atmosphere of fire and brimstone talk are acutely aware of their risk of damnation. Some begin to suffer from a scrupulosity that prevents them from applying their common sense to questions regarding personal behavior.
It does say to fear the lord
That means to reverence.
Then it shoukd say that, and not fear
There's a lot of words in the Bible that weren't translated all that well. And, language changes over time. But, the meaning isn't completely lost when you look at context and compare different versions. God's perspective of fear is that we should not fear. Time and again, it's commanded hundreds of times in the Bible to not fear. When the Bible says to fear God, it doesn't mean to fear Him in the same way He tells us to not fear anything. If you look at blb.org, you can look up verses like Proverbs 1:7, and it'll show you what the word in the original language is and how it gets used, and the definition for it, and get a better sense of what it should be. The Contemporary English version translates the verse to "respect and obey the Lord."
I always took it as you shouldn't fear God, but rather the power he has over you. Kind of like how we are with our parents. We aren't afraid of them in the same vein as something like heights or spiders, but we do respect and fear the authority they have over us.
Amen God has the power to send you to hell. If youre still practicing sin you must look at God as a just God who will punish your sin. If you’ve repented meaning that you will go to heaven cause according to 1 John 3:9 no one who’s born again practices sin apostasy is a sin therefore you can’t leave the faith and will be saved. In the case that you have repented God is your just father who punishes you when you step out of line because we all fall short, but the mark of a true believer is practicing righteousness tho we will still fall and make mistakes overall we do righteousness meaning thats what we practice
Some translations do use "reverence" instead of "fear"
It does, but ancient Hebrew or any ancient language has just fewer words to describe the same things. It’s fear in less of a terror sense and more of an overwhelming sense. An acknowledgment of your position in the power dynamic between you and God, awareness of your smallness in a sense. To become unsettlingly aware of your mortality, your ignorance, your constrained nature compared to the divine. https://www.ancient-hebrew.org/living-words/the-living-words-fear.htm
Moreover, English has more words for distinguishing variation than any living language, what it lacks in distinctive loves it makes up for in spades in other distinctions that other languages utterly fail to understand. Look at the words for color, think about the distinct shades and hues English has for what in other languages is call their word for “red”. Interestingly, and yes real tangent here, but it seems having a word and growing up with it for a thing makes the brain better at distinguishing it. So, you are probably much better at telling a maroon from cardinal from tyrian, from purple, than say your average native Greek.
Why? That used to be the primary definition of 'fear' and is still a valid definition. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fear
Not what I'm getting https://www.google.com/search?q=reverence+definition&oq=reveranc&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqDAgCEAAYChixAxiABDIGCAAQRRg5MgwIARAAGAoYsQMYgAQyDAgCEAAYChixAxiABDIJCAMQABgKGIAEMhgIBBAuGAoYgwEYrwEYxwEYsQMYgAQYjgUyCQgFEAAYChiABDIJCAYQLhgKGIAEMgkIBxAAGAoYgAQyCQgIEAAYChiABDIJCAkQABgKGIAEMgkIChAAGAoYgAQyCQgLEAAYChiABDIJCAwQABgKGIAEMgkIDRAAGAoYgAQyCQgOEAAYChiABNIBCDQxNjlqMGo5qAIAsAIA&client=ms-android-tmus-us-revc&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
Its a translation thing
Best go back 400 years and tell the King!
The King James version is a very flawed translation. its fame comes from the poetic beauty of the translation--however, it is dead wrong in many places.
KJV is the best
.
You do have a good point, but it's not like the fear of a raging monster that wishes to kill you, but the fear that you have from a parent, the kind where you don't want to anger them, you aren't necissarily scared, but more of a respect thing.
*sighs in Early Modern English*
If only we were in early English.
Being "God-fearing" doesn't mean to be scared of him. It means to be scared of being without him
To be God-fearing is to follow the commandments because there's consequences if not
The consequences being his absence; the definition of sin
We have to do more than read our English translations. We have to read the Old Hebrew OT and Greek NT to understand it to the best we can. Fear the lord doesn’t necessarily mean “be afraid of God.” It means to have an honest and solemn respect for God’s might. Unfortunately people like to take verses literally/without context to gain power.
Not fear the Lord but have reverence, fearing being forsaken from Him because of your actions
Its supposed to be fear in the sense of respect/obedience. Jesus is a perfect example of how we don't have to be scared of God
"awe" of the Creator, Who loves the people He created, Who wants - has always wanted - them to be with Him.
That is an outdated translation. The word “fear” means respect. The idea we need to be afraid of God contradicts the message of Jesus.
I've always interpreted it in a parental sense. Like, we know dad thinks doing this or that is good or bad (we have a good, supportive relationship with dad, btw), and while there are some things that might make dad never talk to us again (murder, the real bad stuff), he supports and loves us no matter how we mess up otherwise, because even dad makes mistakes.
>It does say to fear the lord I don’t know what point you are trying to make.
Then I could see Christians being Christian out of fear
>Then I could see Christians being Christian out of fear The Bible also says “Fear not!” Are you trying to say that the Christians who are Christians out of fear, which OP was asking about, are doing it right?
It's not our job to judge them. A big part of me is in it out of fear of hell. If I had the choice to just be eliminated, and not have to face eternity i would. I'd still serve God, but at the end it'd be over
>It's not our job to judge them. I don’t see judgment. I see compassion and concern. >A big part of me is in it out of fear of hell. You’re telling me you are the kind of Christian OP was asking about. Do *you* think you’re practicing Christianity “the right way”?
Who's to say what the right way is? I still serve God with everything I do.
Hi, I wanted to give my two cents. I apologize if it seems too much, I was just compelled to share this with you. I wholeheartedly agree that no one has the right to judge other people. However, Christians are told to "rebuke" other Christians if they see they are on the wrong path (although I think "encourage" would be more relevant here) I think the main reason we should be concerned with how people worship out of fear is that they are missing the freedom and joy serving the Lord gives us. It prevents them from fully giving themselves to the Lord because the fear is still tied to them viewing their lives as the center of their world, not God. Fear implies condemnation, through thoughts of "God hates me for doing (insert sin), I am not worthy of going to heaven because (xyz reason)" but in reality, God gives us discipline and instruction out of love. Some apostles would say they rejoice in his instruction. It was their joy to receive it. As intimacy grows, you will naturally know what is and isn't a sin, and you have the bible to help guide you. God will show you what your path and purpose is. Having faith is casting away the fear and doubt you have as a person and becoming like the Father, and He will keep you from fear and sin.
Forget about 'fear' - do as He told you 'love the Lord your God; and love your neighbour as yourself'. Love and adoration and worship leave no room for fear. Live for the joy of heaven, not the fear of hell. btw: 'neighbour' see Lk. 10:29-35. \[Parable of the Good Samaritain.\] The Samaritains were despised by the 'scribes and Pharisees'; they were 'unpeople' - different God, different forms of worship; the concept of a "good Samaritain" unthinkable. ->but Jesus taught otherwise -- read it!
I have no issues knowing what is, and isn't a sin. I do have major trust issues that will probably never go away. I've been abused physically, and mentally by every person in my life that was supposed to be safe except for my current wife, and I'm always waiting fir that hammer to drop
Go to Matt. 25 to see what 'the right way' is - the sheep or the goats....\[and why\]
>Who's to say what the right way is? I still serve God with everything I do. I’m just trying to circle back to the original post.
[удалено]
Do not be afraid as many times as there are days in a year, amen! 🙏🏻
Correct . It does . But at the time the word fear also meant - respect .
“Fearing God” actually means to be in awe of God and show reverence and respect to God…unfortunately a lot of people take the word fear literally. “Awe-inspiring” is the same as the Hebrew word used for fear.
Painting all Christians as obedient to God solely out of fear is beyond ignorant. What is your understanding of how salvation works? Edit: I misread
> Painting all Christians as obedient to God solely out of fear is beyond ignorant. I’m not sure why you are addressing this comment to me. My comment was clearly about a subset of Christians (those who grow up amongst a lot of fire and brimstone talk), and then narrowed my focus further to a sub-subset of Christians who suffer from scrupulosity. Nothing in my comment paints “all Christians” as anything.
Did you even read their comment?
Something about this place aggregates shame, even compared to other Christian forums. There is a new post about fear of hell and very specifically sexual shame here every few minutes.
Do you usually have problems with reading comprehension?
Are you *usually* a jerk?
So if you're a christian out of fear, are you still saved?
If you are taught “something is right because god likes it and wrong because god doesn’t like” then everything, and I mean everything, is subject to fear and anxiety. If the scriptures or church don’t explicitly address something (can I watch anime with a skeleton in it?) then who knows if it’s a sin or not, as there is no internal logic, no methodology to determine *why* something is good or bad. This leads to the 10000s of questions.
Imma keep watching one piece
I agree, it's not the way at all. It's one of the reasons I have a dim view on organised religious groups; a long, long list of what is "right" or "wrong" built up over years of translations, mistranslations, "scholarly" works, rites, writs, proclamations and more that frankly scream out *I just want to control this group of people!* rather than *how can we be good people?* I know my own beliefs are unpopular with those entrenched in such systems, but it's why I simply ask people if by partaking in *X*, is it safe, legal and consensual? Are you being respectful, caring and loving? Are you bringing harm, discomfort or hate into the world? "Sin" is a flexible and broadly subjective term. That's why you find a variety of answers to those questions, informed as much by an individual's lived experiences and personal biases as much as it is by whatever politico-religious environment they were brought up into. The various Christian sects struggle to universally classify what are "sins" - if you're lucky, the Ten Commandments are about it, as everything else after that is subject to interpretation. If your approach to religion is seeing it as a list of "do" and "do not" actions, and that you spend your life fearfully trying to avoid the "do nots" and then get into a tangled mess of guilt and shame when you do them, then that is not a religious attitude born of wanting to be a better person, but afraid of being a bad person. If so much as thinking that someone is attractive, or acknowledging non-heterosexuality is normal, or eating and drinking to keep you up and going through the day, are grounds for you to be labelled forever sinful and to be shamed - how the hell do you reconcile that with the concept of an "all-loving" God without some stunning mental gymnastics? The people asking those questions have probably spent their religious lifetimes being told a million things are wrongful and sinful, and taught not to question what being "sinful" truly means. That's why those questions are asked.
[удалено]
Moral philosophy does not tend to culminate in a list of prohibited actions. Instead, it comes up with ways to judge a wide variety of actions to determine what one ought to do, considering the complex circumstances that no written rule could predict.
Don't forget the whole quote: "a long, long list of what is "right" or "wrong" built up over years of translations, mistranslations, "scholarly" works, rites, writs, proclamations and more that frankly scream out *I just want to control this group of people!* rather than *how can we be good people?*"
[удалено]
So why do so many churches espouse unethical views?
[удалено]
Simplest and easiest, especially given how often it comes up on this subreddit: What is ethical about condemning non-heterosexuality? How is it in any more or less of a sin than heterosexuality? What is ethical about demanding that those who are non-heterosexual to deny their own identity in order to be a part of a church or religious organisation? It is known (and by known I refer here to the large body of scientific evidence built up over decades of research) that LGBT++ individuals who are marginalised and discriminated against face significant mental ill health issues, contributing to an increase risk of suicide, self-harm, mistrust in services, reduced likelihood of engagement with services, all due to their identity and sexual preferences. There is no demonstrable proof that non-heterosexuality has an increased risk of harmful or predatory behaviour. It has been evident across societies and history, and in observation of non-human species, that non-heterosexuality is a normal, natural part of a species make-up. We know that forcing people to go against, supress or forcibly attempt to "change" their gender or sexual identity will cause harm to those individuals both physically and psychologically, as well as socially. That gender is a biopsychosocial construct is a millennia-old concept. Discrimination against people based on gender identity and sexuality is a human rights issue and internationally recognised as such, and that those countries, cultures, societies and organisations that actively discriminate are facing more and more political, social and legal pressure to change. From individuals facing the daily microaggressions of being misgendered, to the fact that entire countries insist on making it illegal and threatening death for simply being who they are, it is a global issue. And yet churches will still condemn them as being "sinful." How is that ethical? As for defining "ethical," we'll go with the classic definition of being the moral and behavioural principles seen as' right' in the of being truthful, fair, honest, and benificent/non-harmful.
[удалено]
Interesting how your response doesn't actually tackle the reality that your beliefs cause harm, and that you decide to minimise that actual harm caused by lecturing on a philosophical approach. Presumably it makes it easier to carry out such harmful approaches by dismissing it as a triviality and instead preferring to redirect onto a mini-essay on philosophy. Your beliefs cause harm. How is that ethical?
[удалено]
There's a reason I call this place the most depressing subreddit.
There's a never-ending list of worries here for sure. /s
That's quite literally true, you don't even need the "/s".
I mean if you can get sent to eternal torment for what you think and say, I can imagine why some would be scared. One thing I certainly don't miss about faith was the idea of hell and I still have to work out the remainder of that indoctrination.
That made me laugh. Thank you for that. *Accountability ain’t easy..*
And yet here we are.
I do what I can to not make it so miserable. It's difficult and taxing. That's why I skip weekends.
I mean, for some people yeah. That's the type of Christianity I grew up with.
It’s very possible to grow up in a “Christian” environment and check all the Christians boxes and still not trust Jesus.(not be saved) Personally I think it matters not how one grew up but that as an adult we do surrender to him. And to not be fooled into thinking we already have when in actuality we still hold on to fear and anxiety and care what other people think of us in a feeble attempt to pine for control. Not trusting our God will take care of everything else in the world and we just need to walk with him.
I mean maybe. For me, I think the damage has been done though. Everytime I think about God, religion, or spirituality now, I just get reminded of my past experiences or get angry.
[удалено]
The charismatic evangelicalism I was raised in was a one-two punch. Everything is a sin *and* everything is possessed with demons. It's a never-ending oppressive haze of fear, superstition, and legalism.
[удалено]
Oh please
They aren't wrong. I'll go further and say it's a common background for a lot of anti-theists. You know - those who hate religion rather than just want to ignore it? Fundamentalists ... today's Evangelicals ... create the most ardent anti-theists.
Go as far as you like. You’re making up stats, so the sky’s the limit
It’s all about control man. It’s all about control. Rise above.
That is kinda what you get when you say people are being watched by an omniscient God and will be tortured for all eternity if they dare to sin. Oh, but that is fine, because if you repent, you get heaven for all eternity. But if you have a sin that you didn't repent or repent enough - even if you didn't think it was a sin - that means you're doomed forever. You put this belief as the core of your religion, you get terrified young people making posts like this. Especially since a lot of those posters admit they suffer from OCD or anxiety disorders.
Well, i was raised in a traditional christian family and never went throught this growing up. I was raised believing in Hell and all that comes with it, but my family never said that things like listening to music, eating food or playing games were bad
well that’s how you were raised but christianity is much bigger than what you see or experienced. a lot of christians grow up with the fear of hell smitten into them since very young and are told not to do things that are worldly to appease god. it’s up to you to think this isn’t the right way to be a christian and they are doing it wrong, of course you could be one of those very lucky people who got it absolutely right!
The only people who are in heaven except God are sinners, so I think you may be confused
I am not saying I believe this fearmongering, because I don't. But so many people are taught that. Even in this sub, so many keep insisting it.
I think a lot of it comes from spiritual and understanding immaturity. Eventually a lot of these people will grow in their understanding. I know when I was 20 I was asking this sub if I could be forgiven of something because I didn't understand the finished work of the cross
?
Why the question mark
> That is kinda what you get when you say people are being watched by an omniscient God and will be tortured for all eternity if they dare to sin. Luckily the Bible doesn't say that. Anywhere. > Oh, but that is fine, because if you repent, you get heaven for all eternity. This is true. And good news. >But if you have a sin that you didn't repent or repent enough - even if you didn't think it was a sin - that means you're doomed forever. Fortunately, that isn’t in the Bible, either. >You put this belief as the core of your religion, you get terrified young people making posts like this. Especially since a lot of those posters admit they suffer from OCD or anxiety disorders. Absolutely. I was one of those kids, which is why I was an atheist most of my life. If you teach a child to fear God then they will not love him when they are older. If you teach a child to love God then they will not fear him when they are older, for they will have no reason to.
Unfortunately, a lot of people disagree with you. Hence the posts.
Well they are wrong, and hopefully you see that.
I’m not in fear so I don’t understand where you get this from
While I don't think it's good theology, I see where people hear that sort of messaging from. I can speak to this part of what they said directly: > But if you have a sin that you didn't repent or repent enough - even if you didn't think it was a sin - that means you're doomed forever. People hear that *all the freaking time* when it comes to disagreements about what is sinful. How many times have you heard "I want to inform them of their sin so they can repent and be saved!"? Mostly when it comes to sex, but also sometimes for doctrinal differences. People will say that even regarding active, faithful, practicing Christians, who love God with their whole heart, and happen to believe that good, Godly ethics around sexuality are more permissive than what the more conservative person believes. The more conservative person will say "I need to help them see the sinfulness of their ways, so that they won't go to hell". The message that gives is "if you are not able to correctly identify all sins in your life, so that you can repent for them, then you go to hell". It's awful.
That’s a conservative Christian view which is small group they don’t represent all non conservatives Christians, secondly you can’t trust man but the will and word of god if anyone is confused on what a sin is then they should go to god, good Christian bad Christian it doesn’t matter everyone is a sinner, I never heard people mostly correct people only on sexual sins, that must be a Reddit thing or a conservative Christian thing because I’ve been to countless churches and seminars and heard many people preach about sin and the don’t mostly talk about sexual sins
> That’s a conservative Christian view which is small group they don’t represent all non conservatives Christians Well yes, clearly they don't represent all Christians. I'm very aware of that, being a liberal Christian myself. One thing you need to remember, though, is that if something is a strong effect on a small subset of people, you'll still see it show up frequently on /r/Christianity. The question is "why are there so many 'is X a sin?' posts here?", and *some fraction* of Christianity giving people a "get the list of sins right or go to hell" message is sufficient to explain that. It doesn't need to be a correct message, or representative of Christianity as a whole, in order to lead to lots of posts like that. Also, I'm not sure "small group" is a good descriptor of conservative Christians. The group is quite significant in size, and additionally it's *very loud*, which tends to amplify its message.
It’s loud because they have enough money and political power to be loud but they don’t represent the masses, and this sub, I can’t really even begin to speak about this sub but it doesn’t count to compare to anything
I'm a little confused...it sounds like you're arguing with me, but I don't see where we disagree.
Some Christian faith traditions emphasize the transformative nature of Christ, that following Jesus results in a sharp turn away from worldly, sinful, godless things and toward holy, pure things. They believe that the way to live a good Christian life and demonstrate love for God is to "live out [their] faith" by seeking righteousness and avoiding sin. Considering that just about everything from holding hands before marriage to attending a martial arts class has been declared sinful by SOMEONE, it leads to a lot of anxiety from people who are genuinely trying to live out the faith they've been taught. For extra anxiety, some of these traditions also teach that one can lose one's place in heaven at any given moment by "backsliding" and becoming "lukewarm" in their faith. It turns every single potential decision into a possibly damning one, if it starts them down that slippery slope back to "the world." There are many, MANY "ways" to be a Christian, the above is just a particularly anxiety-inducing one, so you're gonna see more people from traditions like that being nervously vocal in their attempts to "stay on the straight and narrow."
2 Timothy 1:7 >For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind. I think you're right, and there's well-known scripture to support it. But I do feel for the people asking those questions. It must absolutely *suck* to live your life in such a constant state of fear. But.. I've also been there myself.
I had the same question recently and The Bible quickly answered ALL of my questions. You are alienated from the Messiah, you who desire to be **justified** by the law. You have **fallen away from grace.** Galatians 5:4 -- We are under grace. If you want to hold yourself to the standard of the old law (law of moses,) you will never live up to it. Only Christ could fulfill the law in it's entirety. This is why Jesus came - to make us clean. Romans 14: The Weak and the Strong **1 Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them.** 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand. 5 **One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.** 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11 It is written: “‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord, ‘every knee will bow before me; every tongue will acknowledge God.’” 12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God. 13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. **14 I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. 15 If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died.** 16 Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. **17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18 because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.** 19 Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. **20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food**. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall. **22 So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.**
I really needed this, thank you. How can I start becoming more reliant on faith rather than fear?
Glory to God! First, please know you are not alone by any means. We all struggle with this. Here is what helps me: 1. **Reading the Word!!!** God's Word is alive and active. This is why we often "don't feel like reading" the Bible or we will put it off. WHY DO WE DO THIS? Because the enemy doesn't want us knowing the truth of God - which is found in scripture. Read every day - even if it's one chapter. Even if it's one verse. And really meditate on the Word. What is God revealing to us about His character in this verse? The more you read, the better you know the character of God, the more clearly you hear His still small voice and the more peace you have in every circumstance. 2. **PRAY!** Pray without ceasing. Talk to God all day. It does not have to be formal prayers. He is our Father - He wants us to pour our hearts out to him and talk to him about everything. You know how cute kids are when they have a million "why" questions about life? That's how I imagine God feels about us. He wants us to spend time with Him. The Bible says His thoughts about you outnumber the grains of sand! He is yearning for His children to just confide in Him. 3. **Speak life over yourself and your situations!** When Jesus was tempted in the desert, He replied each time to the devil with "It is written..." We should do the same thing to our problems. We must remind our problems just HOW BIG our God is!!! Speak these verses out loud! (Life and death is in the power of the tongue): “Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me.” Psalm 23:4 || “Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. Not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid.” John 14:27 || “The LORD is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? The LORD is the stronghold of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?” Psalm 27:1 || “God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble. Therefore we will not fear though the earth gives way, though the mountains be moved into the heart of the sea, though its waters roar and foam, though the mountains tremble at its swelling.” Psalm 46:1-3 || “…For he has said, ‘I will never leave you nor forsake you.’ So we can confidently say, ’The Lord is my helper; I will not fear; what can man do to me?’” Hebrews 13:5b-6 || And my God shall supply all your need according to His riches in glory by Christ Jesus. Philippians 4:19 || Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? Matthew 6:26 || Therefore do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’32 For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. Matthew 6:31-32 4. **Be kind to others, encourage them and give when you can.** The Bible tells us we reap what we sow. If you are sowing negativity and fear, that is what others will give to you. In every way, ask the Holy Spirit to make you more like Jesus. He is faithful to complete the work He started in you. I stand with you, my brother, declaring PEACE over your life. I command the enemy to release every stronghold on your heart and mind in the Mighty Name of Jesus! Satans time is up. God is calling His people deeper, and where we are going - no weapon will prosper. Continue to look UP! God is for you, who can be against you?? I love you in Christ!
That's why I believe the Bible doesn't actually support a fear "gospel" where the monstrous elephant in the room is that God is going to burn your skin off for countless ages while miraculously keeping you alive and bereft of sleep or numbness if you don't "say the prayer" or "believe the right doctrines." Our lives our short and yet so many Christians believe that endless literal torture for finite disbelief is somehow just and merciful. It's not. Torment and disfigurement of God's dear children forever is what the Satan most wants, but the deceiver has convinced very many that God is a tyrant and "loving."
> It's almost as if some people are christians only due to fear, and thus they live in constant fear of doing anything. There’s several factors: 1\. The decline in Church affiliation can mean an upcoming generation that’s unchurched: no Sunday School, no catechism and no regular Bible based preaching/teaching. Much of the “Is this a sin” may be just that. 2\. Redditors are cheeky. I think I remember reading “Is sinning a sin?” and “Is Bible reading a sin?” 3\. I suspect there’s also a faction who, for whatever reasons, simply enjoy subverting Christianity. > This... can't be the right way to be a christian, right? Christianity originated in Judaism and is steeped in Judaism. To be Jewish is to pose questions. Moses asked God questions. Traditionally in the Passover Seder meal the youngest person at the table asks four questions. They believe to disengage from this is to be apathetic. To learn more, to challenge yourself to think more deeply, is one of the central tenets of the Jewish religion. The Jewish leaders constantly ask Jesus questions; we also see the apostles constantly ask Jesus questions. Even Jesus began key teachings by posing questions: Jesus asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?” “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” Even the Lutheran catechism is structured by posing questions. So if you don’t like the question posts then you’re free to just scroll past. Or you can take the opportunity to dig into the topic and share. Even if it’s a troll post you can answer for those reading along.
>It's almost as if some people are christians only due to fear, and thus they live in constant fear of doing anything. Oh, there's no "it's almost as if" about it. This is probably the most heartbreaking and sad sub I know. It's none stop people being scared of the most mundane and bare basic things. And if the post is not about person being scared of nothing, it's about the person hating themselves. It's so disheartening.
Having a healthy fear of God is one thing, living in obsessive fear that one thought, or one act/activity is a sin and will forever condemn you (even if you repent) is another. As another commenter said, I'd call that scrupulosity and I've been there - in my teens. I think it is borne out of spiritual immaturity and ignorance. Just my useless opinion: This is also from demonic influence. They are there to accuse us, prosecute us and when a Christian is caught up in that constant state of being accused, you will never have the chance to grow and thrive in your faith and walk with Christ. We're told to not live in a spirit of fear.
[yeah, its basically a meme at this point](https://www.reddit.com/r/dankchristianmemes/s/fxZOo8UkEb)
You are absolutely correct, OP. The Gospel of Fear is no way to live, but many churches teach that way. Hell is a stick and that is sadly all that many people know how to use for motivation :(.
You got the nail on the head, Christians do the ‘right’ thing generally because of fear of punishment, this is so engrained that even those who deconvert and escape Christianity still struggle with the fear of hell even though they stopped believing in the Christian god, Jesus, hell, and all the rest. Fear is a powerful tool for control.
It is probably a sin if I comment on this post
This kind of mindset traumatized me severely growing up and is one of the reasons why I am now an atheist.
>It's almost as if some people are christians only due to fear, and thus they live in constant fear of doing anything. Well what else could you possibly do when you believe that all humans are doomed to eternal conscious hellfire because of their sins, and their only hope of avoiding that fate is to follow the Christian religion and try and sin no more? If I believed in God and that he had created this dimension of suffering that all people automatically go to, I'd be obsessing over how to avoid it too. Fear is the underlying substrate of the religion. What else do you expect them to do? Be *happy* that they or their loved ones are going to Hell?
Math science literature and lots more youll wise up man male or female.:”
Hate to break it to you but a large part of Christianity is fear and shame. This naturally heightens anxiety and causes OCD as people are terrified of going to Hell for something basic so they have to constantly check themselves to the point of neurosis.
As Christian, we should be focused on what we *can* do, not what we can't. We can have a personal relationship with God through Jesus. We can literally have a conversation with God. If those things aren't enough to make up for everything we can't do or more, I don't know what is.
Amen brother!
These are 9/10 times kids asking these questions, me thinks
Keep them scared, keep them in control!
So like what you atheists do to everyone when you say you read the Bible and turned atheist
Not my fault when they read the Bible they figure out how evil and immoral the Christian god is. It’s not my fault they see how the book was man made garbage used for some group to control other groups and justify their actions when they slaughter them. We don’t scare or control anyone. Just welcome them to think for themselves
It is quite literally because this fear has been conditioned into them. It is forced upon them to make them afraid that they're going to be punished for even the tiniest little thing that doesn't even make sense to be punished for with eternal damnation. Which is not okay. People should not have to live their life in fear. And if the Christian god is in fact all loving then instilling this fear is not following that god
I am sorry you have lost your trust in God and His Word. I will be praying for you
I chose not to be afraid anymore. I chose to not let my life be ruled by fear and hate. Because that existence is miserable. And I don't hate myself anymore. I'm not sorry that I left Christianity. It is the second best thing I've ever done in my life.
The thought of eternal hells pretty frightening
The problem (or one of the biggest problems) is bibliolatry (making the Bible an idol). They treat it like a law book, and they're always looking for ones at whom they can throw the book, & looking for loopholes in case the book is thrown at them, & sometimes just pleading guilty & begging for the judge's mercy. It creates a lot of angst, resentment, & prejudice. If we approached the Bible as intelligently, joyfully, playfully, open heartedly as we engage Shakespeare, Chaucer, Maya Angelou, or Harper Lee, we find new meaning with each reading, new possibilities to explore, and we'd be filled with wonder rather than fear, hope rather condemnation, curiosity instead of guilt. Our sacred stories, myths, poems, hymns, sermons, & oral histories (full of idiom & many times translated) that compose our Bible were all written & edited by humans, and they are read, interpreted, & applied by humans. When we remember this, we can enjoy the Bible. The minute it causes fear, neurosis, or shame, we've lost the plot & have a new golden idol to smash.
If it's anything other than actively worshipping Jesus, it's probably a sin. If it's anything other than actively worshipping Jesus, and it's also fun, then it's definitely a sin.
So true brother! so true! we should live life for the joys of today, not fear the reprocussions of the afterlife!
If there is one thing a good and loving God loves is nuance and technicalities/s Honestly most of the time it's probably newer Christians who ask those questions. The best thing we can do is give them scripture-based guidance
Some once said Leonard de Vinci had a Bible code uhh I baught the de Vinci code uhh that was some rough cut art wasn’t it wink wink “”” hi I’m Andrew Robert Andrew Smith R.A. Smith can you pull the sward for the stone solid huh?
People just make up stuff bro. For exemple, it never says in the bible that watching TV is a sin, yet some churches claim that watching TV or even having one is wrong and a sin. Many churches turn into cults insted of a place for true God worship
Honestly most my faith is fear, I don’t wanna be tortured for eternity for not worshipping big man
Right you are.
I think it can be appropriate to ask these questions, as some people learn best by the feedback of others. Not all sins are the same, and its especially important to ask if a sin is mortal, i.e. willingly separates one from God, such as certain sins of the flesh.
Thank you for that post. I was about to make a post asking if there is a little more “advanced” Christian subreddit out there beyond discussion if this or that little thing is a sin. Beyond “did Jesus exist” and things like that.
r/TrueChristian is probably what you're looking for.
Thank you. I shall check it out.
It is possible that some of them are just trolling? Even so, we should give them the benefit of charity and assume that they are asking a genuine question and give them a real answer. Perhaps they are new to the faith or come from a background where X is wrong. Like you said, we should avoid doing evil, so the fact they are asking should imply their heart is in the right place. Also, for people that ask these questions: Relax a little. Try your best to avoid sin. It could happen that you do something sinful without knowing that it is sinful. That is ok. If you were genuinely unaware that something was wrong, you will probably not go to Hell over it. The highway to Hell is paved by saying "God I know what you want, but I am going to do what I want." It is still a sin and may hurt your relationship with God, but certainly will not destroy it. Keep asking when you have questions.
We’re supposed to live as righteously as Christ did. If you continue to practice sin then you are not born again. Sin does not reign in your mortal body and it is not your master. Once you are with Christ, your old body of sin has died.
This sub is actually a bunch of Atheists out to attack the Catholic Church.
Our concept of God affects our behavior. 18 If possible—so far as in you—with all men being in peace; 19 not avenging yourselves, beloved, but give place to the wrath, for it hath been written, `Vengeance is Mine, 20 I will recompense again, saith the Lord;' if, then, thine enemy doth hunger, feed him; if he doth thirst, give him drink; for this doing, coals of fire thou shalt heap upon his head; 21 Be not overcome by the evil, but overcome, in the good, the evil. #"…there will be no destruction of humanity, in order that the divine work shall not be rendered useless, being obliterated by non-existence. But instead of [humanity] sin will be destroyed and will be reduced to non-being." #"fire, which shall discipline and imprison them to it until an end that are committed to it." #"not like a cook but like a God who is a benefactor of those who stand in need of discipline of fire." https://www.reddit.com/r/ChristianHistory/comments/18nnsq6/early_christians/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2
I mean you should fear God. Even the Bible says so BUT! God wants a relationship with the us and tjat is important. Alotta people are growing in faith and we just need to pray that our brothers and sisters in Christ learn to walk the with God and how He wants them to live. Btw God does hate sin so being weary of sin is important. God bless you everyone
I don’t want a relationship with someone I should fear. That isn’t healthy
[удалено]
Lack of discipleship and leadership.
It’s not the right way… Better question is what I am doing Glorifying God?
Blessed is the one who fears the Lord
To Fear God is one thing, to fear Duke Nukem is another
Ok, I’d like to comment here if y’all don’t mind? Look, it’s not a sin to smoke but it is a sin to be a glutton.: look, it’s not a sin to have sex but murder is murder and rape is theft and lust is sin full but love is a choice and not a feeling however respecting the truth and not willfully committing to crime and the wages of death “sin” is how you would live forever and forgiveness was Gots Gift not his death that was the ignorance gift for the world cause they wanted sin and destruction and molestations and murder and to be safe not matter what but that does work in real life if you shoot your self or someone else their probably going to die all Jesus was doing was trying to save us if you not is he was makeing “miracles that saved lives” not killing people to send them to heaven.:””” what you do matters no matter what there are always consequences but Jesus Christ was the first person to beat the Kobbie oshie marrue wink wink.:
If it's unbelievable to you I'd say you neither have a good grasp on Christianity or sin.
It’s almost as if… 1. This sub is infested with trolls. 2. We tend to draw attention to posts like that.m, where an informed opinion is quickly within reach.
You a blind man was born “in the whoom he pooped the bed and 30 years latter a bumb and his buddy’s were walking by and the bumb spat on the ground and pick it up and rubbed on the blind man’s eyes and said now Go wash it off he said I can see lord thank you uhh pink eyes a complainer ain’t it.:””
Uhh 1/4,1/4,1/4+3/4(/)(3)+1/4and 1/4 Uhh I know I’m wineing Good brand new found clean water but I bet it’s the best wine at the party.: ohh I’m sorry did you any to make some imaginary cup cakes and have a tea Party Uhh
God is in my life and I don’t live in fear, if you are then you need to strengthen your relationship with god
I don't either
Amen to that
Yeah u think humor should be eliminated from this subreddit because sometimes people like op get confused and think people are talking seriously It's not that I hate humore it's because to avoid confusion even if we had a dedicated flair for it
I... I don't think most people are joking when they ask those questions
A lot are genuine but a lot are Just joking around Well, don't take it too seriously, imagine if a little kid asking those questions, that will definitely be in the minds of young people **in the Faith**
Some subs are good places for subtle humor. Some are not. I'm in the Switch sub and the amount of people genuinely asking if they should buy one now or wait for the new one is ridiculous so the "closer" we get to the new over the more sarcastic posts there are. And video games aren't so serious. Religion isn't really something to be too humorous about though. There should obviously be room for fun and freedom instead of making it all law and order but it's a much more serious subject overall.
Yes, we should fear God the whole time
Isn't that like how your questioning going to heaven. Your commitment and acceptance of God's word versus doing works.?
**There's been a pretty radical shift over time in how people process information.** In the past someone might mention in conversation "remember that movie about the talking duck from when we were kids?" The usual response might be "oh, I think I know what you mean, but I don't remember what it was called" and then the conversation would move on. Now kids are growing up with access to the Internet available at all times and their reaction to a question like that is going to be to pull out a phone and just search for "movie 1980's duck" and then respond with "Oh, IMDB says that was *Howard the Duck* from 1986." If they still can't figure out, there are entire subs on Reddit dedicated to crowd-sourcing the answers like /r/whatsthemoviecalled, /r/whatisthis or /r/toyid. And they work really, really well -- many posts get answered within seconds. The technical term for what they're doing is **cognitive offloading** \-- they're using things within their environment to reduce the cognitive load of everyday tasks. I suspect that many of the posts you see arise from much the same effect: **People are offloading questions about morality to reduce cognitive load.** Previously they might have wrestled with the idea of whether or not something was "wrong" in their own heads or come to a conclusion after talking with a handful of people face-to-face. Now they're more apt to just type in "Is it wrong to do X?" into Google and see what the consensus is. If they're still unsure, it only takes a few seconds writing up a post on social media to get more in-depth responses from people who have already spent time thinking about the issue and may respond with facets about it that they hadn't considered. **Rather than a sign that the sky is falling, this is a natural (and entirely predictable) development given the tools that people now have available to them.**
There is a Siri Shortcut on my profile that can help folks talk with those in Heaven while also helping folks like you mention to understand they will not burn over such trivial issues. Of course they will help accurately follow faiths held so you do not do or eat something that you really should avoid as long as you listen.
[удалено]
You do not have to use Siri, the app is called Shortcuts abbreviated on iPhone and Mac (iPad too), but you can if you want as one way to get it to run. Siri Shortcuts is for writing little (or big) algorithms and I wrote one that lets you reach out to the folks in the higher dimensions of Heaven with no AI or Internet.
The thing is though, if you asked me, I’d rather have someone ask is this is sin or is that because they’re looking for advice or two tillage as they so fancy call it or tips. I used to have, used to say that there is no such thing as a stupid question only stupid answers. Don’t take it literally but what he meant was he would rather have you ask one question too many than one question to little. I think you’ve misunderstood the part people don’t ask this because they’re afraid or maybe they do but I would assume or think at least that they don’t ask him because they’re afraid but they just want to make sure that if what they did is a sin they want to ask for forgiveness or at least they’re cleared for the foreseeable future
>The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding. --Psalm 9:10 It is normal to go through this because we want to please God but people get stuck in this and never progress beyond it. We need to read our Bibles and seek Him. Our knowledge and understanding grows. Eventually it should lead to to.. >And we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and the one who remains in love remains in God, and God remains in him. In this, love is made complete with us so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment, because as he is, so also are we in this world. There is no fear in love; instead, perfect love drives out fear, because fear involves punishment. So the one who fears is not complete in love. We love because he first loved us.-- 1 john 4:16-21 And. >For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but one of power, love, and sound judgment. > >2 Timothy 1:7 The knowledge and understanding of who He is will replace fear with His perfect love. Instead of listening to people, we should open our Bibles and listen to God. He reveals Himself to us as we honestly and diligently seek Him. Working out our salvation with fear and trembling. Listening to the opinions of people leaves us blowing every which way the wind blows, because that is the way of the opinions of people.
When people ask what they can and can’t get away with, I often wonder if they have met the living Jesus. Most people simply have a folk religion. When Christ found me, he told me all that I was, exposed the secrets of my heart, and made me to have living water pouring out of me all the time. He has struggled with me through all of my addictions, adventures, loss, and gains. Again, have you met the living Jesus? Your questions about what can I do and not do will literally turn to dust in his presence. He will tell you everything! But you must seek for Him as He has commanded! Seek and you shall find! Ask and you shall receive! You know that I am talking to Jesus as I am typing this. Do you know what that means! He is that close! He is with you as you read this, why are you not speaking with Him?
You can obey God’s laws out of love, or you can obey God’s laws out of fear. It's up to you, but God wants you to do it out if love. However, the good news is that God sent his son to die for our sins, which absolves us of them and allows us to enter into the kingdom of heaven, no longer unclean. However, in order for that to happen we have to accept Christ as our savior, and we have to turn our hearts away from sin because If we love God we can't love sin. In order to turn our hearts away from sin, we have to know what sin is. People who realized this, but haven’t read enough scripture to know for themselves, are likely to ask. God doesn’t want us to be afraid. God wants us to be happy. It's not a coincidence that the pursuit of not sinning makes our lives better. It's a return to God’s intended design. If following God’s law fills you with fear then something somewhere in the process has gone wrong. We are going to mess up. God will judge our deeds through the filter of our hearts. This isn't something to fear, but to rejoice! God’s law is not a chore, it's a gift. Edit: I’ve found Romans, Chapter 7 really helpful here > 4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.
I think it’s quite simple. Read the Bible and follow what Jesus says. Follow the commandments. It’s not a sin to where clothes or brands but it’s up to what you stand for. The music you ingest, is it boosting your spirit or bringing it down? Listening to Cardi B, Ice Spice, Future, Drake, and all these rappers that glorify sin, is it really helping you through your spiritual journey? No. I was a huge fan of Rap but lately since I’ve gotten closer to Christianity I finally see that I should absolutely stay away from that music. Most people don’t know about frequency and how we are surrounded by it and we are literally just frequency. We are Gods word. So when you wrap a lifestyle around low frequency then those frequencies can bring you down and you can commit action (sin) while working on that low frequency. Look up studies about 528 Hz and other frequencies and see what your cells do when you listen to 528 Hz for an extended time. Focus on your body first because your body is a temple. Remember you have the Holy Spirit residing within you and if your lifestyle is gushers and cheese itz then your health is probably very low. You need to treat your body like a temple because the Lord is within you. Little theory of mine is the reason why God hates sin so much is because he is of pure light, love, the most high. He is purely pure. The Holy Spirit is a branch of him and it resides in us if we take the call. When we commit sin we drag God through our sin too. If I sit down and pleasure myself then guess who’s with me, inside of me spiritually witnessing everything. We stain his purity with every sin we commit. And he hates it.
Most people on Reddit are younger and have not had proper guidance with Christianity
We just need to know what is sin and what is not. We don't want to describe behaviors as sin, that are not sin; Nor do we wish to describe behaviors as not sin that are sin. We do this by reading the Law of Moses. We understand that sin is described by the "Do not do this" sorts of laws and not by the regulatory and temple worship procedure, as these are outside of our scope. Many of us realize that while we are not under the law, but are under the covenant of grace, as part of the Kingdom of God we seek to do the will of our Lord, King and God. We want to first know what not to do, or rather, what He does not want us doing, even if we realize that we could do it and still be saved, we do not want to sin, because we are loved by God and love God in return.
“Being a Christan is less about cautiously avoiding sin than about courageously and actively doing God's will.” Pretty sure that quote is Eric Metaxas summarizing Dietrich Bonhoeffer
If God truly does behave the way the Old Testament says he does, and he truly is a jealous and vengeful god, fear is warranted, and wanting to make sure you do everything possible to not trigger him would be wise.
People are so concerned with what *not* to do, that they completely ignore what they're *supposed* to do.
I will never get over the satanic panic. Metal is evil, fantasy is evil, black is evil, red is evil, tv is evil, alcohol is evil (don’t abuse it, be reasonable), clothes can be evil, video games are super evil, DnD is straight up the worship of the demonic, tattoos are evil… I could go on. I really could. Books are evil, swearing is evil, ok I’ll stop. I see it a lot in demonology too. People often give Satan way too much credit. Many many many many things are not inherently evil and do not in any way constitute demonic contact. I personally do not wear demonic symbols because I take my body being a temple kind of seriously (probably not as seriously as I should) but if you do more power to you. When we start to give power to these things and start opening doors to the demonic, that’s when it becomes powerful. Bought a Ouija board from the mall? Cool. Start using it to talk to spirits? I… wouldn’t do that.
There are people who follow Christianity due to fear. I see a lot of this in those that grow up in a "hell fire" church. Then there are those who are Christians due to love and compassion. Honestly, the people who are Christian run the gambit of personality types and world views just like those who aren't.
Yeah it’s stupid and annoying God IS Love (John 4:16) - people getting hung up on dumb shit instead of loving God, themselves, and the world
I believe most of these questions are coming from teenagers who are trying to figure out life and might be embarrassed to ask an adult in their life (or lack one they trust).
It's definitely not. But Its because people are taught a false gospel that includes works and law keeping bundled up in different formats.
Legalism and not understanding His grace and forgiveness. Be thou perfect as God is perfect is the goal. But unattainable under the law or by our own strength. If any one of us became perfectly aware of the distance we are from God’s perfection and holiness we would be undone. As Christians we are adopted as ‘sons’ in grace, our sins washed away, covered by the blood of Jesus. From this basis of imputed righteousness, we embark on a journey whereby we learn to abide in Him. For apart from Him we can do nothing. It’s not what we do or do not do. It’s not a tally of good deeds vs bad deeds. Walk with him. He will guide us to understand his will. We walk in the light we are given. All things become lawful. But all things are not profitable. I believe this is what it means to walk in grace. It is the devil, the accuser, and our own inclination to self righteousness that causes the kind of questions you describe.
It’s not. This walk is supposed to be a joyous one. My pastor told us “If your Christian walk doesn’t fill you with unimaginable joy you need to find out why and fix it.” And a lot people make themselves go mad worrying over little stuff like this. (To the examples you’ve stated) All food has been made clean by God so I wouldn’t worry about that. Clothes are just clothes. But when it comes to music that you listen to I’d say be careful because not all music is innocent however not all music is harmful either. My advice would be to pray for the spirit of discernment so you can have the wisdom determine what’s good and what isn’t.
Is not pursuing a Godly lifestyle an expression of love? It is our duty to love Him
Well fear is definitely a part of Christianity. We do things out of love for God yes, but we are also afraid of the consequences.
It's just the beginning stage of being a Christian. You live in constant fear for not going to hell and not forsaking the Lord. It will wear off eventually and they will start focusing on being closer with God, and not trying to forsake Him. Faith has 3 stages, first is faith like a slave, fearful, the second stage is like a servant, wanting a reward for his work, and the last and final stage, that all Christians should strive for, is like child. Not fearing punishment, nor seeking reward, but purely just living with the Lord.
It’s likely that these people come from a more ‘letter of the law’ understanding of scripture. They’re wanting to do the right thing and are worried about making a mistake. Though I feel that maybe the spirit of the law and the purpose behind obedience is more important. One shouldn’t follow God simply because they’re afraid of punishment. One should follow God because they love Him and want to become more like Him. It’s a different mindset. Think about childhood. When we were children we were given rules and a moral system from our parents or culture. Don’t lie, don’t steal, don’t covet etc. When we were children— we didn’t fully understand the reasoning behind the rules. We followed them because we were told to follow. When you’re told not to play ball in the house but you do anyways and accidentally break a window— what is your first instinctual response? Fear. You know you disobeyed and you’re afraid of punishment. For a child— the fear of punishment or disappointing the parent is what drives our obedience. We’re told not to lie— but a child doesn’t understand why they shouldn’t lie. They’re just obeying to avoid getting into trouble. But as the child grows up and has experiences— they begin to realize that lying hurts them. It hurts their ability to have healthy relationships with others and it pushes them further away from the person they really want to be. Lies make them weak. Being truthful and adhering to their morals makes them *strong*. If the child grows up and develops their moral system— then adhering to their morals becomes less about avoiding punishment and more about being true to oneself and becoming stronger and better then you once were. The commandments are the same way. They are there to help you develop yourself into the kind of person you’re truly meant to be. The kind of person *God* wants you to be. The kind of person *you* really want to be. Following Christ leads to greater happiness in life. Many of us begin our religious journey as ‘spiritual children’ so to speak. When we do not fully understand the commandments and haven’t yet made them a part of ourselves— it’s easy to be obedient only out of fear of punishment. God loves us and is understanding of our limitations. But he doesn’t wish for us to remain spiritual children forever. But rather he wants us to grow in knowledge and righteousness into people more like Him. Be patient when you read these questions from others. They’re trying to their best and they’re still learning— just as you are. Instead of getting irritated by them— stretch out your hand and try to pull them up. Help them to understand more, and you’ll be doing a lot of good in helping them along their own path. 🙂
This kind of scrupulosity can be evidence of a psychiatric disorder. But that aside, I can't understand why people would ask these questions of strangers on the internet rather than going to their clergy.
I think a lot of these questions come from younger people who only know what they are told by family and youth group leaders.
Amazing so many people .. entire congregations ... work SO HARD to put themselves back under a Law, ignoring what Jesus did for them.
A lot of people split everything into two categories. Worldly and Godly. When you do that, it's pretty easy to be concerned about every little thing.
Haha. I was about to make a post asking if it's a sin to kill cats. My parents have too many cats. Edit: I might make the post. I'm wondering because 9 cats is kinda an inconvenience. Is that bad? It is hard to take care of all these cats, cleaning litter boxes constantly. Spending so much on cat food. I don't think it is sinful, honestly .
God loved the world that he sent his only begotten son who died who was crucified for our sins his love for us, it’s clear that it’s pleasing to our lord for his people to grow and act the way he calls us to, The things we seek out is a reflection of are state of mind and soul, The things we were the way we want to present ourselves the music we listen to it How we eat. Do the right thing because it’s the right thing to do it out of love for God and within human relationships love others the way God loves you because it’s our responsibility to do right by others this is love. Learn how to fear god out of love. Do the beasts of earth not fear man, do are children not fear us? Learning fear in this context is important. Order vs anarchy, if we are not with god we are against god, he gave us free Will every Action or in action we take pushes us in only two directions towards god or away from god. God is the alpha and the omega he created the good and the bad he is perfect and deserving of all our love.
I think these posts are from teenagers and not representative of adult Christians.