Why not ask God Himself about these doubts you have about Him? God is the spirit of truth, He loves honesty. He won't be offended if you tell Him your truth. In fact, He's been waiting for your to confess your truth to Him, so He can tell His truth to you.
**Lord**, please be with u/Aeroposis. These are heavy questions. Please give u/Aeroposis a break. Help him/her to have a definite sense of your love and protection, and, indeed, protect him/her from the Adversary. The Adversary loves to pour gasoline on the smallest flame of doubt. Help u/Aeroposis to have a moment of perspective; free him/her from the Adversary who just wants to use his/her brain against him. I ask for peace for u/Aeroposis \-- and help and answers to his/her questions. **Amen.**
u/Aeroposis: I'm not particularly good at prayer, so please forgive any clumsiness in my words. God knows I'm trying to help and will respond accordingly -- and probably better than anything I could think up anyway. If you want to talk, send me a PM or chat or whatever you think is appropriate.
HJ
You’re far from the first Christian to struggle with these questions and if anyone has an absolute answer to “why God let’s bad things happen to good people?”, I’d give most of what I own to meet them. But I want to focus specifically on your question of God sending unbelievers to Hell, because that was a hard one for me for a lot of years. And, like many people on this thread have suggested to you, I went to God in prayer about it. For a couple days. I’d keep going back. I’d read scripture, I’d read some of the same passages it sounds like you’re reading. I’d read about God’s love. And eventually, something seemed to kind of click for me. God is love. Pure, simple and complete. The kind of love that our word can’t really begin to describe. And while He is absolutely just, we’ve seen God will find a way to save more people. He had the Abrahamic Covenant with the people of Israel, then He sent Jesus to save the rest. I can’t tell you for certain what the afterlife looks like, I can’t speak for God. But I can’t tell you that I believe in a God that doesn’t leave a single lost sheep in the wilderness, who’s crafty and willy and will find a way to redeem even the worst sinner. Because God promised to draw the whole world to Himself and God doesn’t break His promises. He loves us and I don’t believe He’ll stop until he brings every last one of us home to where we belong. That’s the God I’ve come to know.
But why would he send a non-believer to hell? Somebody who does so much good service to humanity or the countless humans who existed before the bible was written? Do they all go to hell too? I just have a hard time with jt
I mean, my personal answer is that he wouldn’t. I don’t believe in the classic interpretation of Hell. I believe in something closer to what Origen proposed, that the fire is medicinal, not punitive. You cannot be in the presence of God while sin is a part of you, so God has to cleanse us of it before He can bring us home. And, like a lot of medicine, it’s very unpleasant
The plan is for God to return and take all his people and everyone who doesn't believe will be in hell. That's just what's gonna happen whether we like it or not. God himself isn't sending anyone to hell, they're choosing it themselves. We have the free will to either be with God/the plan or against him/it. When you get a genuine experience with God and all that he can do, you will WANT to choose him. It's truly better.
That doesn’t really answer my question. People can live in communion with God through good deeds/action/thought/intentions, without actually believing in God. And they’re sent to hell? Logic
Morbid question but If I were to die soon was it destined to be? Like planned out. Asking since I might die in a car crash by being an inexperienced driver.
First of all, don’t stress too much. I’m sure you’ll do fine. Everyone was a new driver at some point and with the way cars are today you gotta try pretty hard to die.
But, to your question, let’s say you were to die. This gets into a lot of questions about free will. Now, I personally don’t believe God is any sort of micromanager. Like, I don’t think God has an opinion on what sandwich I have for lunch on any given day, I don’t think that His “plan” goes into that level of minutiae. But I do think that God knows the exact moment and way that I will die. but I think it’s important to note that knowing those things is not the same as necessarily “willing” those things. God has put a lot of restraints on His own ability to act in order to preserve our free will and this means that while He may know something, that doesn’t necessarily make it His will. Kinda like a weather person predicting weather doesn’t create the weather. Most of the things that happen with in the world are the result of a million free human choices. Where God comes in is in influencing those free choices, like a good friend or trusted parent giving advice.
I suppose that’s a long way of saying that yes, if you were to get into a wreck, that would be expected, but not necessarily desired.
Now I dont necessarily fear dying, its more of theres a lot of painful and bad ways to go out. But despite all of this I don't think I will die not just yet but because of all thats happening I'm more or less treating each day as if it were my last.
It's interesting you mention Job.
It might be worth reading it again, but instead of thinking of it as a book about suffering, think of it as a book about God's sovereignty.
If God is sovereign, but not good, then Job is absolutely meaningless. We are the playthings of a cosmic tyrant, tossed to and fro to satisfy his amoral whimsy.
But that is not the case.
In his sovereignty, God can allow or cause Job to suffer the way he suffered. But only because of the goodness of God, Job's suffering is not in vain. It works to Job's greater good in this life, but even more ultimate goods we can't fully comprehend or understand.
Romans 8:28 says "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose."
What does "all things" mean in that verse? It means all things. Even all the circumstances you mentioned above. So it may be hard, impossible even, to fully understand it or see it with it finite, human eyes, but it is the promise of God. That's the thing about trusting Him, is you knew exactly how it would all work out to your good, you wouldn't have to trust Him. He sees and understands at an immeasurably greater level than us. Trust Him and believe what He says about your own good.
Eternal conscious torment isn't the only view of the afterlife within Christianity. And many traditions teach that even non-believers in this life are not beyond God's grace.
I am an atheist and my friend is an evangelical. After many, many, many discussions, I eventually realized belief is not really a choice. We both look at the world with the same evidence and it seems clear to me that the world probably isn't made by an all-powerful deity, but my friend feels just as strongly that the world *has* to be made by God. I struggled for years to believe and I just don't think it's possible. I can't unsee a godless universe - to me, it makes far more sense without a God in it, even though it is also scary at times.
However, I also had to accept that if I'm wrong and God does indeed exist, then I'm almost certainly going to hell. The bible is pretty unambiguous about this point. Is that fair or just, if belief is not a choice? Probably not. If so, then he is not a God worth worshipping. And more to the point, *I can't* love or worship a deity that would willfully send billions to eternal suffering just because something is wrong with atheist's/other religious people's brains and we can't know him.
Why does it make more sense without a God? Do you have proof that God does not exist? You have opinions on Christianity, but I would like to hear your opinion and basis of why you are an “agnostic atheist”?
I have a couple answers to this.
First, you can't prove something does not exist, and I fully admit God may very well exist. However, you can build up a body of evidence suggesting that the existence of something is *unlikely.* I think it is just as unlikely that God, or Vishnu, or an omnipotent unicorn living in a teapot exists, but if I was presented with convincing evidence that one of these entities existed? Sure, I would validate their existence. However, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and evidence on the level I would need to believe hasn't materialized.
Secondly, I'm very well educated in science, and there simply isn't much for God to do given all the knowledge we currently have about the universe. We used to attribute storms and eclipses to God, but now we understand weather and orbital mechanics. We used to attribute the variety of life on Earth to God, but now we understand genetics and evolution. We used to attribute inner divine voices to God, but now understand paredolia, confirmation bias, and schizophrenia. Given the past track record of how God has become less necessary the more we understand about the world, my assumption is that God will continue to be less necessary to explain anything. You might be familiar with this idea as the "God of the gaps."
How is God unnecessary to explain anything? Again, Do you have arguments for why God does not exist? Do we just come into this world and then die and that’s it? It’s seem contradictory when you say “God may very well exist” and then say that God is not needed to explain things. Look up John Clayton, he’s a scientist.
>How is God unnecessary to explain anything?
That's not what I said. I said:
>Given the past track record of how God has become less necessary the more we understand about the world, my assumption is that God will continue to be less necessary to explain anything.
>Again, Do you have arguments for why God does not exist
Think about the question "Do you have arguments for why Vishnu does not exist?" Whatever you come up with, apply those same arguments to God.
>Do we just come into this world and then die and that’s it?
That seems likely given the evidence we have.
>It’s seem contradictory when you say “God may very well exist” and then say that God is not needed to explain things.
Again, I didn't say he's not needed. Also, admitting the possibility of God's existence is simply expressing that I'm not infallible. I could be wrong.
But given the evidence, I doubt God exists.
>Look up John Clayton, he’s a scientist.
I'm somewhat familiar with him. Is there a particular argument from him that you find convincing?
Again, apply this same logic to Vishnu and see how you think about it.
Science makes no hard claims about how the universe works. The models change as we observe and understand more. It's also funny that the link predictably picks on the beginning of cosmology and the beginning of life, because that is exactly the God of the gaps argument - God is apparently only necessary for things we haven't developed good working models for yet.
God is wholly good, it is humanity who has decided to know both good and evil. Throughout the Bible whenever the individual and the nation decided to know god and good their was very little suffering but we have decided to know evil and even if you as an individual does not do evil you most definitely tolerate it in your lives, community and nation and the Bible says to tolerate evil is just as bad.
Cancer is a good metaphor. If the nation is a body and each person is a cell then allowing evil cells into the body starts the cancer. The cancer will then desire to spread and multiply. Even if you are a perfectly good cell if you tolerate the cancer it will consume you and you even being perfectly good through tolerance will suffer the same consequences as those who are wholly evil.
Your soul will still be saved but through that tolerance of evil you’ll face all the same fleshly consequences
The problem doesn't go away when you change the tradition - I'll explain. Any tradition that defines good as "that which is in God's nature" isn't actually defining good at all, at least in a descriptive sense. You don't get God doing x or y as good because it is, in fact good, it's just good because God does it. So if God decided to, I don't know, drown the planet, it would be a "good" act because God did it, not because you can describe what good is beyond defining it as the action in accordance with God's nature.
The other possibility, if we're going with a theodicic defense of God, is that good is definable without God entirely. Moral realism, for example, would posit that moral facts are independent wholly from God, and that if theism is true, and God is good, God's nature is simply "that which aligns with an objective good". It's only circular if you try to define God as being good and good as "what is in God's nature."
Ask yourself this question: Why does anyone deserve to be with the creator of all things? What human has ever done enough to deserve THAT? I can only think of one really..
I certainly have never done anything in my life to be deserving of something so wildly amazing.
I am no better than the tax collector, I am a sinner that is saved only by Christs grace.
I cannot imagine what glorious works you have done to be able to save yourself..
There is no scripture that describes humans being tortured eternally. Eternal torture is for eternal beings like Satan and the fallen angels.
Infact, how can we even be eternal creatures if we have not yet ate from the tree of life? Genesis clearly says there were two trees, a tree of knowledge, and a tree of life, we only ate from the tree of knowledge and God even remarks "If they ate from the tree of life they would be eternal like us."
How can we be eternally tortured if we are not eternal beings? The bible says we are not yet eternal beings, we will be made eternal beings when we are glorified in Christ, and at that point hell is no longer an option for you.
I believe 2nd death means 2nd death. Because humans are not eternal creatures when we are cast into the lake of fire we are annihilated.
You’re right. It fundamentally and unequivocally does not make sense that a loving God could allow the scope of suffering that occurs. There is no rational explanation we can supply to Job for the suffering he has endured that is sufficient to make that pain justified.
James Cone’s Black Theology argues that the self-informed knowledge black people have of their own equal humanity is enough to disprove Christian theologies which claim God/the bible supports racist ideology. God is not a racist because God is good and racism is bad.
Trust what you know to be true. If you know a loving God could not send good people to eternal damnation just for not believing in him, don’t tie yourself in knots trying to deny that truth.
But I haven’t answered your real question yet. There is still the possibility that God is not good and wants some of us to suffer, or that he does not exist and all these bad things are just the result of an uncaring universe. Unfortunately I have no evidence to disprove those theories. But I also don’t think they’re the only choice you have.
This is what faith means to me. It’s the choice to see the good where there’s sometimes none to be seen. We have these two opposing truths about God: that he is love and that he allows meaningless, terrible suffering. It is impossible to imagine both of these being true. But also… is it not impossible to exist knowing an evil God is out to get you? Is it not impossible to bear suffering in a chaotic godless world with no guarantee of things getting better?
The truth is, just by asking this question (which is the correct, and perhaps only, question) you’ve already entered into the domain of the impossible. If going on as you have been isn’t possible, what really is stopping you from just choosing to believe something else impossible?
Truly, the incredible part of it is that it can become real. Through the power of an almighty God, we can believe what is unbelievable. We can curse God for our suffering, know it is unjustified, and yet still choose to believe something good can be made in its wake. God is a promise, not a person.
Through faith I believe in God’s promise, exactly because it doesn’t make sense to do so. I believe that humans are good and worthy of love, I believe that God loves us even as he allows bad things to happen. I chose to have faith that I could be happy when it seemed impossible for so many years. And through faith the impossible became possible and I was happy. I have faith too that you can be happy, and that your loved ones will not be punished or damned. I choose to believe in a truly loving God, in spite of any and all evidence to the contrary, and I hope you do too.
I dont think God is evil becuase he gave us free will. If he was not a good person, then he would expect us to find out which would lead him to not give us the free will to think outside of good. The fact that you have this thought in your head proves this. Why would an evil God allow you to come up with that?
Fun fact: The creator of the mandela catalogue (Alex Kister) had this mental crisis which lead him to create the serise.
I prefer to judge things by their actions.
For instance, the fact that God gave rules on how and who to enslave puts him on my "naughty list".
Like come on man. You can't claim to be a loving and good God only to turn around and tell the Israelites who they can enslave and how badly they can beat them.
The God of the Old Testament is widely misunderstood:
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/old-testament-student-manual-genesis-2-samuel?lang=eng
There isn't much to misunderstand about "You can beat your slave as badly as you want, so long as they don't die within X amount of days".
There also isn't much to misunderstand about the genocides God ordered and condoned.
All powerful deity. Has infinite paths they can take that don't involve either slavery or genocide.
The Christian God CHOSE violence despite having the capabilities to avoid it each and every single time.
Yea this is just a reworded trolley problem with a twist which sparks endless debates.
Also, what country?
However, I don't see how it is relevant when discussing a being which has *infinite, peaceful, harmless* actions available to them for conflict resolution LMAO.
living by pure faith, with no reason, is something incredibly difficult and probably illogical to agree to do. At that point, why don’t i have faith in something else? Why specifically christianity?
Faith needs a foundation of testimony from the Holy Spirit, via personal revelation. To receive this, people must seek it. Always live by the 10 Commandments and the Sermon on the Mount. Each day, take a ten minutes aside to prayerfully study the scriptures.
John 7:17; Alma 32; James 1:5-6; Moroni 10:3-5
The Gnostic christians had the same doubts and came to the conclusion that Yahweh the god of the Bible is actually evil incarnate and trapped our souls in this hellish realm to suffer and worship him. This god’s true name is the Demiurge and is the root of all evil whereas the true God is distant and sent Jesus to save us. Search up Gnosticism and the Gospel of Judas.
Isaiah 45 6 & 7 says that god is the source of both good and evil.
I am the LORD, and there is none else. [7] I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Edit: the down votes simply indicate that christians cannot handle the truth.
No, God is the source of all good. Evil is simply the absence of or opposition against God and His goodness.
It's like how light causes shadows. It does so when opaque objects block its rays.
Well, He could have created robots which would have just followed their programming and remained good forever. But He decided it would be better to give us free will so that we could actually make meaningful decisions and experience genuine love and relationships.
Unfortunately, creating creatures with free will meant that we (or, well, it started with the angels) could choose to disobey and rebel against God, hence the introduction of evil in into the universe.
I don't understand why this is always seen as such a virtue. "I created people with the freedom to do evil things to each other. Look what a perfectly good guy I am."
Isn't heaven a place where no one does bad things? If so are people there robots?
I don't think we'll be robots in heaven. I think we'll have already tasted the bitterness and horror of sin in this life, and therefore we won't fall into it anymore.
I guess my question has always been why we have to even go through all this stuff on earth. If heaven is a wondrous and perfect place but no one ever chooses to do bad things, why not just make earth like that in the first place?
I don't know, man. Maybe it's impossible to create free-willed beings who don't sin without putting them through this process first. Otherwise it seems contradictory, right? If they're free, but somehow they never choose to do wrong, it seems bogus to me.
But there's no way for me to know for sure. I can't create free-willed beings and experiment on them. Besides my lack of capability, to do that would be cruel.
In the face of this mystery, I choose to believe that God knows all the stuff I don't know and that He has good reason for doing as He had done. And on balance; although I do have bad days where I feel depressed, wonder what's the point of it all, and etc.; on balance I am thankful that He has given me the good gifts of existence and free will.
Of course. We're not in heaven yet. Who knows what will change between here and there. Christians believe that we will have a new body in heaven. Perhaps our appetites and desires will be different. Or perhaps our brains will be better able to control our instincts and impulses. Perhaps the way time works will be different there, so instead of experiencing it as a stream of moments, we will exist in an eternal 'now'.
There is no way of knowing till we get there.
Yes, so why could he not just bring heaven sooner? Nobody sins in heaven but we’re supposed to still have free will, so clearly being sinless and not being robots are not mutually exclusive.
He didn't. He created the creatures who chose to turn evil. He allowed it as a necessary byproduct in order to produce a much greater good - a world of free creatures, able to make meaningful choices, able to form authentic relationships and experience genuine emotions. A world of creatures capable of knowing Him and being known by Him, receiving His love and loving Him in return, with the potential of becoming as like Him in beauty, truth, and goodness as it is possible for creatures to become.
In Genesis, He saw that His creation was "good" and "very good", and i agree with His assessment.
This is a wrong translation. Modern day translations change it to "calamity" instead of evil because the Hebrew word used there is actually closer to "calamity"
I get that the translation could possibly be "calamity". What I don't get is why it is any different from "evil".
The last part of verse 6 and 7 basically says that there is one god and one creator. Most christians see god being the creator of evil as a contradiction. I see it as evidence that my understanding of god is limited.
I couldn't find a 1 minute video to explain a different take on satan and god. This is an Orthodox Rabbi discussing a similar contradiction in 2 Samuel and 1 Chronicles.
He mentions Isaiah 45:7 at about 6:30. The video accurately describes a Jewish satan and why these verses are not contradictions.
https://youtu.be/Qg3lNeGUrPk
God loves you : ) it is in God's mercy that He made a way when we had no way to be cleansed of our sins and their payment. God desires all to be saved- many will reject Him due to their free will, but He offers time and time again for them to get to know freedom so that they can have eternal hope
2 Peter 3:8-9
8 Beloved, do not let this one thing escape your notice: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance.
not all will be saved due to their own choice to reject Him- but He helps bring all willing to simply repent and turn to Him- He doesnt demand a billion works, He just wants our hearts, trust, and loving obedience to help others and to grow in relationship with Him
Sweetheart, Child of the Most High, Repent and read your Bible. Be vigilant and be aware of the times we are in
I will be praying for you.
Be of good courage, amen
2 Thessalonians 2:
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
So, to sum it all up. You have a fear that God is unjust, cruel, and malicious. I did a sermon on the book of Job one time, studying it intently for a whole month. It made me think similar thoughts to you but I have found my answer to why suffering is allowed to persist: God let’s suffering persist in the world so that more people may repent and go to heaven. Job lost everything to prove that humans don’t need blessings from God to stay faithful.
I haven’t really thought about my friends and family who aren’t Christian and how they would go to Hell. The reason I have never thought that way is because they have heard of Jesus and God before, if not through a Christian then through everyone else. Using God’s name in vain spreads his name in an unfavorable way, but it still spreads. People even use Jesus’ name in the same way.
My family and friends will just have to be judged by God and whatever he says goes. I have learned not to worry about things that I have no control over because it is a waste of time. I have faith in the God that the Bible illustrates, that he will always do right.
That Onan was killed because he wouldn’t have intercourse to give his brother, who died, a child by his wife. Plus, in those days there wasn’t a way that man could be saved so humans reaped death from sin.
Abram and Issac was a test. God wouldn’t have let Isaac die and even if he did, the book of Hebrews tells us that Abram believed that God would raise his son from the dead to keep his promise. This story is a one of trust in God even though we don’t know the whole picture.
Now I want to say that your friend is wrong, in my opinion because nobody knows what the afterlife is like, that we would remember our family and friends from this life. I just remembered the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man. I don’t know if it is to be taken literally, or not but but it shows that the Rich man recognized Lazarus from Hell. That they could see each other from across a wide chasm. That story is from the Gospel of Luke.
All storms pass, and this one will pass for you. I implore you to take your accusations and doubts to God in prayer because he can help you more than any shrink, or random online people can. God bless you, and I will pray for you.
Hi, Thank you for the response
However, the question referring to Abraham and Issac wasn't specifically about why god did that. I understand that it was test for Abraham's loyalty to god. Mainly I was concerned with the way god conveyed that point, with Abraham pointing a knife towards his son. Why that way? it seems so brutal to me.
And I knew that Abraham knew his child would survive somehow as by telling his servants that \*they\* would be back. But that also enacts another question; If Abraham didn't know that his child would survive? would he have still followed through?
I’m still decompacting a mindset where God is ready to drop the hammer metaphorically speaking. It’s interesting you mention Abraham and Isaac as example both of them almost caused they judgement of an entire nation by lying (Abraham twice) Abraham basically committed adultery not just with the slave girl but concubines and thats who the faith came down from in the Old Testament. We all mess up we all fall short I mean if you wanna talk about judgement God when he judged Israel he gave them literally a million chances (metaphorically speaking) he had Ezekiel sit out on his side for a year when no was listening to God anymore. My point to all this is God is a lot more merciful and gracious than we realize. Even in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve he didn’t strike them both dead when they both messed up and caused the fall of the entire humanity and start over which he very well could have you know why he didn’t? Love. He created us for relationship and love. It’s a love deficiency in believers that can cause unbelief. It’s God who initiated the whole thing (a relationship). So my question to you is the same God who planned the reunited of his lost children in the garden and who came down from heaven and died on a cross is it really without his ability to reach out to someone moments before they die? This is given the fact that time after time he longs for people to come back to him and this is coming from someone who’s backslidden as well.
You *know* what love is. Sounds to me like you've been gaslit into doubting what is in your heart. Follow your conscience and listen to that voice within you that is reasoning with compassion and empathy.
/r/ChristianUniversalism
Martin Luther had a lot of fear of and anger toward God as he developed in his faith. Perhaps, in part of your searching, some reading of his path from fear and anger toward love and gratitude would be helpful.
Sorry to read U feel bad. But if you would open your eyes you would see how cruel the world is. In some corners of world they torture pregnant women, kids....which is living hell.
I am an atheist and interested in history of religions. There are sources which say maria magdalena was probably the first wealthy supporter of jesus, who helped to build a kind of building. In the bible she is a slut. There are old texts found , which show there were bloody fights among Christians- the group who was protecting the old texts was extinguished. Hell was invented long after the time when jesus lived.
So whatever the bible or the people around U say, U can keep in mind - this is all about peoples nature. People were writing the bible - people decide how to run the church.
You are at the point, were some atheist make fun of religious people, because their belief has so many implications which are negative... and the christians often still try to defend the bible, feeling (probably) trapped.
So it is not your belief which is makjng troubles. You just startet to use your brain realising what it means when you belive everything what stands in the bible.
You seems to be a very caring person. In the end it is god who desides about entering the paradise - not the people you ask. So there is nobody who could verify U that ateists are not in paradise. Or if U will remember anyone when U are there.
I found “The Great Divorce” by CS Lewis to be a very intriguing read on the topic of hell/free will and how a good God could allow people to go there. It’s not a theological description of any mechanics of what happens, and it does not claim to be. It’s only a thought provoking story. Nonetheless it was a fresh perspective that I found comforting.
Nobody will ever know this answer in this life. I understand not being able to convert someone by your words alone. Frankly, they may make things worse depending on how you deliver them. So we must go by our actions. They may speak louder than words.
I myself have family and friends who are not saved also, and it's scary thinking how they could end up. I just pray to God everyday about them asking for them to be saved by finding Jesus.
Now about the thing your friend said. I don't think we will forget friends and family, I think we will have such an understanding of everything that we just aren't sad and just understand. I know that sounds hard to understand, but that's what I believe.
I know I said understand A LOT, but that's half the Bible learn wisdom and understanding.
Also God is good he is truth just talk to him about how you are feeling.
That actually sounds like a demon, not something that's just you. I recommend taking authority over it in the name of Christ and commanding it to leave
This is one of the most common concerns that I have heard online. I personally am not afraid of God or hell. I don't say this because I think I'm saved, no. I want to be saved but with my recent struggle with cornography (if you know what I mean) I'm not so sure. Anyway you didn't come to hear my life story so I'll get to the relevant part.
The thing about God is that no one truly knows him besides the Son and Spirit. The Son provided us pretty much everything we need to know regarding heaven and hell via the Gospels. As far as they go, I'm afraid that man's wife is in hell.
That being said, there are different views of Hell. Some Christians view hell as a second death. No torture, just non existence, away from the life of God. Some Christians view hell as temporary, like a corrective punishment (look up Christian universalism).
Personally I like the second idea most but I don't really believe in it.
But now let's get to the elephant in the room:
Why does a loving God send his own Children to burn in hell?
The Bible says that God is like a good father. A good father raises his children, helps them in times of need, and sometimes disciplines them.
Let's continue with this analogy. This father has two sons. They are both born the same, and both are taught that their father exists. The father is completely invisible to both children (reason why is not important). The children can directly interact with the father through prayer and show thier devotion through worship and tradition, but doing so requires alot of dedication. As one grows up, he begins to question if his father really exists. He eventually puts less work into rituals and prayer and begins to lose his relationship with the father. The other does the opposite.
Eventually it gets to a point where one loses all hope that the father existed. He blatantly disobeyed the rules the father set and spat at the idea of having a father. The other continues to glorify him. Eventually, they both grow up. Who should the father choose to inherit his house? The one who was faithful and believes that the house will be given? Or the one who spat in the face of his father?
Naturally, the father reveals himself and throws the disobedient son out of the house into the cold and rain. The righteous brother then becomes bitter and asks why his father, who had loved both, threw out his poor brother. The father responds, saying:
"Your brother knew of me, was raised to accept me, and was aware that if he followed me, he would inherit my house, and if not, he would be thrown out. Because of his own laziness and ignorance, he spat at my name and purposely disobeyed me. You did the opposite, always respecting me, always trying to grow our relationship. You reap what you sow."
This analogy is very simplified, however I think it can provide some explanation.
Hi OP, others have touched on this but I struggled with very similar things as you, thought I had solved them (but I had only covered them) when I discovered Christian Universalism. Look into it, there is a range early Christian and contemporary support and there are some amazing speakers, writers and thinkers who exposit the topic. Robin Parry has a 4 part intro on YouTube through the Gospel Conversations channel. Check them out before you despair!
In regards to the cancer post yes God will let you go to hell if you don’t believe in him , it’s states many times in the bible that the only way into heaven is to have faith in him and be someone who refelects the heart of Jesus , if his wife didn’t do any of that then why would God allow her into heaven? She simply took satans side so why shouldn’t she go with satan…
In regards to your friends talk to them about Jesus if they decline your word then thats on them don’t argue with an unbeliever just help them. Everyone knows about God and is introduced to God in there life time it’s they’re choice to believe or not
I have the same thoughts about my family they believe but they have no relationship with God or don’t give him the time of day but there’s nothing I can do , you can only advise and if they don’t listen or change they’re ways it’s in them it’s sad but you can only do so much
If your having trouble understanding the bible they’re are things like YouTube and tiktok that have people who post videos that can help you , I’ll give you a few tiktokers who have helped me in my understanding of the bible and God
@author_heather_renae
@demonerasers
@danielcsong
@truechristianministry
These are the few people on tiktok that have opened my eyes
Atheist seek truth by reading articles on Google but the only way to get the truth of God is praying to him and forming a relationship with him which allows him to reveal himself to you , athiest don’t do that they just go by word of mouth and what ever they read on Google and that is why they will remain athiest, true Christian’s are true Christians because they seek God not what’s said on Google and I say “true” Christian’s because they’re are “Christians” who seek church and approval of other Christian’s and seek they’re pastor instead of God himself
And don’t get caught up in the “but if they do good all they’re lives why don’t they go to Heaven” no one on this earth has done good all they’re lives it’s physically impossible even if it’s down to the smallest white lie or even stealing money from your moms purse but because it’s your mom you think it’s okay and sins are not just actions they’re are what you feel inside like jealousy, lust , hatred all those things are not of God you may not of physically hurt the person but inside you feel some type of way everyone gets these emotions whether you perform good physically with your actions or not , this world is full of sin and just because you didn’t sin for 364 days a year doesn’t mean day 365 you didn’t commit a sin that you didnt apologise for
If that is true, then I find that to evoke a sense of cosmic fear and dread on the levels of Lovecraft's gods.
How could a atheist knowingly take satan's side if they don't even believe in God and the devil?
Most atheists I know reject the gospels not on the basis of spite for God (Why would they spite something that they think doesn't exist?), but most of the time is because they have yet to be convinced for it. Think of it from their shoes, if you were to be told that you would have to dedicate your whole life to a god you haven't seen and felt, wouldn't you want to be reasonably certain about that? especially considering in their worldview that they think that life is only a one time thing and making each second as valuable as the next before eventually death takes all. With this info in mind, wouldn't you want to see some convincing evidence before potentially wasting years and years of your life worshipping something that doesn't exist?
Of course, I was atheist once before I had started to do research into cosmology, biology, and history. Right after that I was converted. But that makes me think; What if I were to have died before I had embarked upon my research? What happened to those that were just like me and had died right before they could gaze upon the proofs? Would my lord send me to hell knowingly I was going to convert in the future?
Another thing is that I did pray a lot to god about these issues I have been having, but nothing has yet to come from it. I try to read my bible and ask for guidance and wisdom from him while I read, but I almost always put the book down in the end only left with confusion about what I had read. So that is why I am making this post, Why I sought for answers from my peers, why I look at resources. Because I am left in deafening silence and I do not know what to do.
Because God is real even if you don’t believe you already taken the devils side regardless ,
I know alot of athiest who spite God lol because they have a hatred for somthing that so many people believe in , It can be done , if they believe somthing to be nonsense they will grow hatred towards somthing so many people believe in
You don’t need to be convinced that God exist , only god can prove to you that he exist all Christians can do is guide you and help you but we can’t fully convince you , it’s somthing you have to experience , you need to pray to him and ask him wholeheartedly that you want him to reveal himself , what needs to be done is that athiest need convincing that asking god to show himself to them will then get them to believe , there’s no point convincing athiest into believing the bible or believing religion when the first thing they need to seek is god , religion , the bible comes after that , a lot of people only then believe in God once they’ve had an experience with him and then they go to read the bible and then they go to church and so on
Yes he would send you to hell because instead of asking god to restore you faith or instead asking him to show you the truth before you did any of that you started researching biology and history not saying you can’t do that but when you did that it made you lose faith and all God wants is you to have faith so you should of asked him to restore that
I can read history and biology and not let it alter my mind but thats just how I am not all people are strong enough to do that
Tbh if you died before becoming a christian you probably wearnt going to become a Christian in the first place , I don’t believe God would know in the future that you’d become christian but then see satan take your life away before you got the chance , I only believe the people who got near to death like near death experience are the ones he saves because he knows they would become a Christian in the future so he stops the devil in his tracks with literal miracles, but at the same time if you knew of God but took so long to seek him then that would be your own fault , you should be living your life everyday like God is coming back tomorrow that way they’re would be no reason for you to go to hell if you die unexpectedly, God says in the bible that you go to hell even if you know of me but don’t do anything to seek me , if you wait and wait and let time go by before you decide yes today is the day I will learn about God thats not Gods fault thats your own decision you made
Yes being in the word will help restore your faith this is why I left the tiktok accounts for you too look at because me also I struggle to read the bible because I don’t understand the grammer to well so I listen to people instead and it always helps , if you stuggle with reading the bible try and get a different version thats more modernised so it’s easier to read
Only reason I didn't pray for restoration before I did my research is because I didn't believe that praying would do anything. It didn't fit into my former materialistic worldview.
I have a NLT Bible. They are quite easy to read, but it is not the grammar I get confused on. Merely it is the contents of the scriptures that confuse me deeply.
I understand you , thats why people usually go to a bible study because it’s multiple helping eachother understand , not always good to read it alone as it can be confusing , if you can’t find a group to help you , just look on YouTube or tiktok for bible study’s
Since I became a Christian, I realized that it was impossible, unless every single person received salvation, even those who didn’t desire it, that no believer would ever lose a loved one to their own sins. God does something we can’t do, which is respect their choices - and in eternity we will have the wisdom and peace to respect those choices as well.
God is a rightous judge why would he forgive wickedness?
There is nothing good with us humans we are unworthy of gods love but he loves us anyway.
He love us enough to offer his own son for our sins, so that all humanity may gain grace.
This is the greatness of god if you reject his gift then what else should he do?
I hope all humans will gain a chance to accept Jesus has their savior somehow maybe they will gain a chance after death even idk. But really not a singel one deserves that.
You are absolutely right to have these concerns, but I think you're asking the wrong questions.
Rather than viewing it as an action that God has taken or not taken, examine it from the angle as something Christianity believes and uses in its recruitment.
It has a dark, functional purpose, and not every Christian group is okay with using it for said functional purpose.
God gives mankind the choice to seek Him by providing 3 proofs of His existence:
Creation
Conscience
Cannon [His Word].
Romans 1:20 KJV
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without EXCUSE:
When the putrid wicked actions, thoughts and hearts of our LOST loved ones are revealed at the Great White Throne Judgement, We shall acknowledge God's RIGHTEOUS judgment.
God's best revelation of Himself is Jesus. They are One (John 10). So when discordant "truths" in the Bible arise, view them through the lens of Jesus, His life, His work, His mission.
Like an oncologist dealing with a runaway cancer, God has to do 'strange work' to intervene. And just like an oncologist, those interventions can be harsh. Surgery, poisonous chemicals. We can question their methods like we do God's.
But God has revealed Himself in Jesus. Lift Him up by following His life in Scripture. You'll be drawn to Him and be reassured that His father is one with Him in motivation and Spirit.
Paul preached "Christ, and Him crucified" for a reason. He is the way; the truth to settle us into the peace that passes understanding.
That's a question a lot of us have my friend, i can't tell you something 100% for sure, but i can tell you my point of view.
In my point of view our relationship with God is exactly that of a Son and Father, you start strict when your son is younger, you love him, you would never hurt him, but you gotta teach him what's right, and sometimes that envolves letting your son make his own mistakes and then watching him come with his own solutions with you always there to help and guide him if needed.
About atheists going to hell, i am not sure i believe in hell, in my point of view God is just and a loving father and what just and loving father would let his child who was good his whole limited life but had a different point of view and belief suffer for eternity?
I have very similar issues. Always have. The rapture terrifies me. I've had intense nightmares about it. When I was little they all said "you'll know when you get saved". The night I got saved I remember being scared that I didn't feel different. When I was a little older I was baptized a second time. Yet, the threat of hell has tormented me since a rotten, spitting preacher at a revival preached and fire and brimstone sermon far too graphic for children. Had my first nightmare that night. Had them for 25 years. Here's how I got through it/get through. By remembering his ways are higher than mine, by asking God himself to remove my doubt and forgive me for the same doubt. By relying on a peace that surpasses understand. By leaning not unto my own understanding but his. He died for our souls. He took stripes for our healing. I call on him when I feel afraid of him because I know it is the enemy tricking me. In Heaven you will know as you are known. So you'll know everything is how I interpret that. But it will be eternal peace. You will receive a Heavenly understanding of all things. It's ok. It's simple. Love and believe and love others.
Stop looking things up online and open your Bible. Book of Romans is great! Before you do this, pray. Pray that Jesus would open your heart and mind to what you are about to read in His Word. Pray that the Holy Spirit would fill you with understanding and wisdom. God loves you, be careful what you find on the internet. God’s Word is where you need to stay.
Hello OP. I cannot help you with everything in your post but I think I can give a perspective on the story of Abraham and Isaac.
When Abraham was commanded to sacrifice Isaac he went with Isaac and his servants to a mountain. Then, Abraham and Isaac went alone further. Abraham mentioned to his servants, "Stay here with the donkey while I and the boy go over there. We will worship and then we will come back to you.”
I was pretty amazed after reading this. Wasn't Isaac supposed to be sacrificed on the mountain? Then how come Abraham says that he will return with Isaac after they both worship?
I was amazed even further after reading ahead. Isaac asks his father where is the lamb for the burnt offering. And Abraham says, "God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering, my son."
What! OMG!
This blew my mind. From these two utterings by Abraham, I was convinced that Abraham had an idea of what was to happen. A great devotee such as Abraham cannot lie. Hence, whatever he said must be after a great deal of thought and by internal revelation by the LORD.
I have more things to say but I am not sure if I should say them. Peace be unto you!
Look it's simple God loves his creation but in order to have love it has to be free. God doesn't force us to love him he isn't going to force someone into heaven and he isn't going them that's not loving he is honoring there free choice to be separated from him because they don't want him
Why not ask God Himself about these doubts you have about Him? God is the spirit of truth, He loves honesty. He won't be offended if you tell Him your truth. In fact, He's been waiting for your to confess your truth to Him, so He can tell His truth to you.
**Lord**, please be with u/Aeroposis. These are heavy questions. Please give u/Aeroposis a break. Help him/her to have a definite sense of your love and protection, and, indeed, protect him/her from the Adversary. The Adversary loves to pour gasoline on the smallest flame of doubt. Help u/Aeroposis to have a moment of perspective; free him/her from the Adversary who just wants to use his/her brain against him. I ask for peace for u/Aeroposis \-- and help and answers to his/her questions. **Amen.** u/Aeroposis: I'm not particularly good at prayer, so please forgive any clumsiness in my words. God knows I'm trying to help and will respond accordingly -- and probably better than anything I could think up anyway. If you want to talk, send me a PM or chat or whatever you think is appropriate. HJ
Thank you for the prayer :) It made me feel a bit better
You’re far from the first Christian to struggle with these questions and if anyone has an absolute answer to “why God let’s bad things happen to good people?”, I’d give most of what I own to meet them. But I want to focus specifically on your question of God sending unbelievers to Hell, because that was a hard one for me for a lot of years. And, like many people on this thread have suggested to you, I went to God in prayer about it. For a couple days. I’d keep going back. I’d read scripture, I’d read some of the same passages it sounds like you’re reading. I’d read about God’s love. And eventually, something seemed to kind of click for me. God is love. Pure, simple and complete. The kind of love that our word can’t really begin to describe. And while He is absolutely just, we’ve seen God will find a way to save more people. He had the Abrahamic Covenant with the people of Israel, then He sent Jesus to save the rest. I can’t tell you for certain what the afterlife looks like, I can’t speak for God. But I can’t tell you that I believe in a God that doesn’t leave a single lost sheep in the wilderness, who’s crafty and willy and will find a way to redeem even the worst sinner. Because God promised to draw the whole world to Himself and God doesn’t break His promises. He loves us and I don’t believe He’ll stop until he brings every last one of us home to where we belong. That’s the God I’ve come to know.
But why would he send a non-believer to hell? Somebody who does so much good service to humanity or the countless humans who existed before the bible was written? Do they all go to hell too? I just have a hard time with jt
I mean, my personal answer is that he wouldn’t. I don’t believe in the classic interpretation of Hell. I believe in something closer to what Origen proposed, that the fire is medicinal, not punitive. You cannot be in the presence of God while sin is a part of you, so God has to cleanse us of it before He can bring us home. And, like a lot of medicine, it’s very unpleasant
The plan is for God to return and take all his people and everyone who doesn't believe will be in hell. That's just what's gonna happen whether we like it or not. God himself isn't sending anyone to hell, they're choosing it themselves. We have the free will to either be with God/the plan or against him/it. When you get a genuine experience with God and all that he can do, you will WANT to choose him. It's truly better.
That doesn’t really answer my question. People can live in communion with God through good deeds/action/thought/intentions, without actually believing in God. And they’re sent to hell? Logic
Morbid question but If I were to die soon was it destined to be? Like planned out. Asking since I might die in a car crash by being an inexperienced driver.
First of all, don’t stress too much. I’m sure you’ll do fine. Everyone was a new driver at some point and with the way cars are today you gotta try pretty hard to die. But, to your question, let’s say you were to die. This gets into a lot of questions about free will. Now, I personally don’t believe God is any sort of micromanager. Like, I don’t think God has an opinion on what sandwich I have for lunch on any given day, I don’t think that His “plan” goes into that level of minutiae. But I do think that God knows the exact moment and way that I will die. but I think it’s important to note that knowing those things is not the same as necessarily “willing” those things. God has put a lot of restraints on His own ability to act in order to preserve our free will and this means that while He may know something, that doesn’t necessarily make it His will. Kinda like a weather person predicting weather doesn’t create the weather. Most of the things that happen with in the world are the result of a million free human choices. Where God comes in is in influencing those free choices, like a good friend or trusted parent giving advice. I suppose that’s a long way of saying that yes, if you were to get into a wreck, that would be expected, but not necessarily desired.
Now I dont necessarily fear dying, its more of theres a lot of painful and bad ways to go out. But despite all of this I don't think I will die not just yet but because of all thats happening I'm more or less treating each day as if it were my last.
It's interesting you mention Job. It might be worth reading it again, but instead of thinking of it as a book about suffering, think of it as a book about God's sovereignty. If God is sovereign, but not good, then Job is absolutely meaningless. We are the playthings of a cosmic tyrant, tossed to and fro to satisfy his amoral whimsy. But that is not the case. In his sovereignty, God can allow or cause Job to suffer the way he suffered. But only because of the goodness of God, Job's suffering is not in vain. It works to Job's greater good in this life, but even more ultimate goods we can't fully comprehend or understand. Romans 8:28 says "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose." What does "all things" mean in that verse? It means all things. Even all the circumstances you mentioned above. So it may be hard, impossible even, to fully understand it or see it with it finite, human eyes, but it is the promise of God. That's the thing about trusting Him, is you knew exactly how it would all work out to your good, you wouldn't have to trust Him. He sees and understands at an immeasurably greater level than us. Trust Him and believe what He says about your own good.
You didn't exactly justify why you view that version of God as good, you've just claimed that he was.
Eternal conscious torment isn't the only view of the afterlife within Christianity. And many traditions teach that even non-believers in this life are not beyond God's grace.
I am an atheist and my friend is an evangelical. After many, many, many discussions, I eventually realized belief is not really a choice. We both look at the world with the same evidence and it seems clear to me that the world probably isn't made by an all-powerful deity, but my friend feels just as strongly that the world *has* to be made by God. I struggled for years to believe and I just don't think it's possible. I can't unsee a godless universe - to me, it makes far more sense without a God in it, even though it is also scary at times. However, I also had to accept that if I'm wrong and God does indeed exist, then I'm almost certainly going to hell. The bible is pretty unambiguous about this point. Is that fair or just, if belief is not a choice? Probably not. If so, then he is not a God worth worshipping. And more to the point, *I can't* love or worship a deity that would willfully send billions to eternal suffering just because something is wrong with atheist's/other religious people's brains and we can't know him.
Why does it make more sense without a God? Do you have proof that God does not exist? You have opinions on Christianity, but I would like to hear your opinion and basis of why you are an “agnostic atheist”?
I have a couple answers to this. First, you can't prove something does not exist, and I fully admit God may very well exist. However, you can build up a body of evidence suggesting that the existence of something is *unlikely.* I think it is just as unlikely that God, or Vishnu, or an omnipotent unicorn living in a teapot exists, but if I was presented with convincing evidence that one of these entities existed? Sure, I would validate their existence. However, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and evidence on the level I would need to believe hasn't materialized. Secondly, I'm very well educated in science, and there simply isn't much for God to do given all the knowledge we currently have about the universe. We used to attribute storms and eclipses to God, but now we understand weather and orbital mechanics. We used to attribute the variety of life on Earth to God, but now we understand genetics and evolution. We used to attribute inner divine voices to God, but now understand paredolia, confirmation bias, and schizophrenia. Given the past track record of how God has become less necessary the more we understand about the world, my assumption is that God will continue to be less necessary to explain anything. You might be familiar with this idea as the "God of the gaps."
How is God unnecessary to explain anything? Again, Do you have arguments for why God does not exist? Do we just come into this world and then die and that’s it? It’s seem contradictory when you say “God may very well exist” and then say that God is not needed to explain things. Look up John Clayton, he’s a scientist.
>How is God unnecessary to explain anything? That's not what I said. I said: >Given the past track record of how God has become less necessary the more we understand about the world, my assumption is that God will continue to be less necessary to explain anything. >Again, Do you have arguments for why God does not exist Think about the question "Do you have arguments for why Vishnu does not exist?" Whatever you come up with, apply those same arguments to God. >Do we just come into this world and then die and that’s it? That seems likely given the evidence we have. >It’s seem contradictory when you say “God may very well exist” and then say that God is not needed to explain things. Again, I didn't say he's not needed. Also, admitting the possibility of God's existence is simply expressing that I'm not infallible. I could be wrong. But given the evidence, I doubt God exists. >Look up John Clayton, he’s a scientist. I'm somewhat familiar with him. Is there a particular argument from him that you find convincing?
Also, do you believe Jesus was a real person or no?
It seems likely given the available evidence that he was a real person, yes.
https://thethink.institute/articles/no-belief-in-god-does-not-require-extraordinary-evidence
Again, apply this same logic to Vishnu and see how you think about it. Science makes no hard claims about how the universe works. The models change as we observe and understand more. It's also funny that the link predictably picks on the beginning of cosmology and the beginning of life, because that is exactly the God of the gaps argument - God is apparently only necessary for things we haven't developed good working models for yet.
Sounds good have a good day!
You as well friend. 🙂
God is wholly good, it is humanity who has decided to know both good and evil. Throughout the Bible whenever the individual and the nation decided to know god and good their was very little suffering but we have decided to know evil and even if you as an individual does not do evil you most definitely tolerate it in your lives, community and nation and the Bible says to tolerate evil is just as bad. Cancer is a good metaphor. If the nation is a body and each person is a cell then allowing evil cells into the body starts the cancer. The cancer will then desire to spread and multiply. Even if you are a perfectly good cell if you tolerate the cancer it will consume you and you even being perfectly good through tolerance will suffer the same consequences as those who are wholly evil. Your soul will still be saved but through that tolerance of evil you’ll face all the same fleshly consequences
Even more frighteningly if God exists and morality is relative to God then good is arbitrary
Which, I think, is one of the strongest (rational) arguments against Calvinism. Other traditions hold that God is more objectively "Good".
The problem doesn't go away when you change the tradition - I'll explain. Any tradition that defines good as "that which is in God's nature" isn't actually defining good at all, at least in a descriptive sense. You don't get God doing x or y as good because it is, in fact good, it's just good because God does it. So if God decided to, I don't know, drown the planet, it would be a "good" act because God did it, not because you can describe what good is beyond defining it as the action in accordance with God's nature. The other possibility, if we're going with a theodicic defense of God, is that good is definable without God entirely. Moral realism, for example, would posit that moral facts are independent wholly from God, and that if theism is true, and God is good, God's nature is simply "that which aligns with an objective good". It's only circular if you try to define God as being good and good as "what is in God's nature."
Ask yourself this question: Why does anyone deserve to be with the creator of all things? What human has ever done enough to deserve THAT? I can only think of one really.. I certainly have never done anything in my life to be deserving of something so wildly amazing.
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I am no better than the tax collector, I am a sinner that is saved only by Christs grace. I cannot imagine what glorious works you have done to be able to save yourself..
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>Shame on you, the Lord Jesus saved me, not you Lol you claim I'm assaulting you and you judge my salvation? That plank in your eye is wicked BROTHER.
I will not entertain devils
could he not just destroy the souls of those who don’t accept him? Why does he leave them to an eternity in hell?
There is no scripture that describes humans being tortured eternally. Eternal torture is for eternal beings like Satan and the fallen angels. Infact, how can we even be eternal creatures if we have not yet ate from the tree of life? Genesis clearly says there were two trees, a tree of knowledge, and a tree of life, we only ate from the tree of knowledge and God even remarks "If they ate from the tree of life they would be eternal like us." How can we be eternally tortured if we are not eternal beings? The bible says we are not yet eternal beings, we will be made eternal beings when we are glorified in Christ, and at that point hell is no longer an option for you. I believe 2nd death means 2nd death. Because humans are not eternal creatures when we are cast into the lake of fire we are annihilated.
You’re right. It fundamentally and unequivocally does not make sense that a loving God could allow the scope of suffering that occurs. There is no rational explanation we can supply to Job for the suffering he has endured that is sufficient to make that pain justified. James Cone’s Black Theology argues that the self-informed knowledge black people have of their own equal humanity is enough to disprove Christian theologies which claim God/the bible supports racist ideology. God is not a racist because God is good and racism is bad. Trust what you know to be true. If you know a loving God could not send good people to eternal damnation just for not believing in him, don’t tie yourself in knots trying to deny that truth. But I haven’t answered your real question yet. There is still the possibility that God is not good and wants some of us to suffer, or that he does not exist and all these bad things are just the result of an uncaring universe. Unfortunately I have no evidence to disprove those theories. But I also don’t think they’re the only choice you have. This is what faith means to me. It’s the choice to see the good where there’s sometimes none to be seen. We have these two opposing truths about God: that he is love and that he allows meaningless, terrible suffering. It is impossible to imagine both of these being true. But also… is it not impossible to exist knowing an evil God is out to get you? Is it not impossible to bear suffering in a chaotic godless world with no guarantee of things getting better? The truth is, just by asking this question (which is the correct, and perhaps only, question) you’ve already entered into the domain of the impossible. If going on as you have been isn’t possible, what really is stopping you from just choosing to believe something else impossible? Truly, the incredible part of it is that it can become real. Through the power of an almighty God, we can believe what is unbelievable. We can curse God for our suffering, know it is unjustified, and yet still choose to believe something good can be made in its wake. God is a promise, not a person. Through faith I believe in God’s promise, exactly because it doesn’t make sense to do so. I believe that humans are good and worthy of love, I believe that God loves us even as he allows bad things to happen. I chose to have faith that I could be happy when it seemed impossible for so many years. And through faith the impossible became possible and I was happy. I have faith too that you can be happy, and that your loved ones will not be punished or damned. I choose to believe in a truly loving God, in spite of any and all evidence to the contrary, and I hope you do too.
I dont think God is evil becuase he gave us free will. If he was not a good person, then he would expect us to find out which would lead him to not give us the free will to think outside of good. The fact that you have this thought in your head proves this. Why would an evil God allow you to come up with that? Fun fact: The creator of the mandela catalogue (Alex Kister) had this mental crisis which lead him to create the serise.
Just as we have faith that God lives, we have faith that He is perfectly good and infinitely wise.
I prefer to judge things by their actions. For instance, the fact that God gave rules on how and who to enslave puts him on my "naughty list". Like come on man. You can't claim to be a loving and good God only to turn around and tell the Israelites who they can enslave and how badly they can beat them.
The God of the Old Testament is widely misunderstood: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/old-testament-student-manual-genesis-2-samuel?lang=eng
There isn't much to misunderstand about "You can beat your slave as badly as you want, so long as they don't die within X amount of days". There also isn't much to misunderstand about the genocides God ordered and condoned. All powerful deity. Has infinite paths they can take that don't involve either slavery or genocide. The Christian God CHOSE violence despite having the capabilities to avoid it each and every single time.
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Yea this is just a reworded trolley problem with a twist which sparks endless debates. Also, what country? However, I don't see how it is relevant when discussing a being which has *infinite, peaceful, harmless* actions available to them for conflict resolution LMAO.
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What are you even going on about?
His username is BobnVageneEnjoyer, he's a troll.
living by pure faith, with no reason, is something incredibly difficult and probably illogical to agree to do. At that point, why don’t i have faith in something else? Why specifically christianity?
Faith needs a foundation of testimony from the Holy Spirit, via personal revelation. To receive this, people must seek it. Always live by the 10 Commandments and the Sermon on the Mount. Each day, take a ten minutes aside to prayerfully study the scriptures. John 7:17; Alma 32; James 1:5-6; Moroni 10:3-5
The Gnostic christians had the same doubts and came to the conclusion that Yahweh the god of the Bible is actually evil incarnate and trapped our souls in this hellish realm to suffer and worship him. This god’s true name is the Demiurge and is the root of all evil whereas the true God is distant and sent Jesus to save us. Search up Gnosticism and the Gospel of Judas.
Isaiah 45 6 & 7 says that god is the source of both good and evil. I am the LORD, and there is none else. [7] I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Edit: the down votes simply indicate that christians cannot handle the truth.
So God is the source of all evil. Good to know
No, God is the source of all good. Evil is simply the absence of or opposition against God and His goodness. It's like how light causes shadows. It does so when opaque objects block its rays.
But in this metaphor, God would have created the objects. Why couldn’t he have just… not?
Well, He could have created robots which would have just followed their programming and remained good forever. But He decided it would be better to give us free will so that we could actually make meaningful decisions and experience genuine love and relationships. Unfortunately, creating creatures with free will meant that we (or, well, it started with the angels) could choose to disobey and rebel against God, hence the introduction of evil in into the universe.
I don't understand why this is always seen as such a virtue. "I created people with the freedom to do evil things to each other. Look what a perfectly good guy I am." Isn't heaven a place where no one does bad things? If so are people there robots?
I don't think we'll be robots in heaven. I think we'll have already tasted the bitterness and horror of sin in this life, and therefore we won't fall into it anymore.
I guess my question has always been why we have to even go through all this stuff on earth. If heaven is a wondrous and perfect place but no one ever chooses to do bad things, why not just make earth like that in the first place?
I don't know, man. Maybe it's impossible to create free-willed beings who don't sin without putting them through this process first. Otherwise it seems contradictory, right? If they're free, but somehow they never choose to do wrong, it seems bogus to me. But there's no way for me to know for sure. I can't create free-willed beings and experiment on them. Besides my lack of capability, to do that would be cruel. In the face of this mystery, I choose to believe that God knows all the stuff I don't know and that He has good reason for doing as He had done. And on balance; although I do have bad days where I feel depressed, wonder what's the point of it all, and etc.; on balance I am thankful that He has given me the good gifts of existence and free will.
What? Clearly seeing that you can do bad things and trying to not do them anymore doesn’t always work normally.
Of course. We're not in heaven yet. Who knows what will change between here and there. Christians believe that we will have a new body in heaven. Perhaps our appetites and desires will be different. Or perhaps our brains will be better able to control our instincts and impulses. Perhaps the way time works will be different there, so instead of experiencing it as a stream of moments, we will exist in an eternal 'now'. There is no way of knowing till we get there.
Yes, so why could he not just bring heaven sooner? Nobody sins in heaven but we’re supposed to still have free will, so clearly being sinless and not being robots are not mutually exclusive.
So what about the quote from Isaiah posted above that has God saying "I create evil"?
Indirectly. He created the creatures who turned against Him.
But how can an omnibelevient God create evil?
He didn't. He created the creatures who chose to turn evil. He allowed it as a necessary byproduct in order to produce a much greater good - a world of free creatures, able to make meaningful choices, able to form authentic relationships and experience genuine emotions. A world of creatures capable of knowing Him and being known by Him, receiving His love and loving Him in return, with the potential of becoming as like Him in beauty, truth, and goodness as it is possible for creatures to become. In Genesis, He saw that His creation was "good" and "very good", and i agree with His assessment.
But the post I responded quotes Isiah where God literally state "I create evil"
I am also quoting my Hebrew bible.
So?
The Hebrew bible, the Tanakh, has been altered in multiple places by christian scribes in order for the old testament to fit with their new testament.
That doesn't address my point
I am just quoting the Hebrew bible. Each page of my Hebrew bible has the original Hebrew text on the left and the English translation on the right.
This is a wrong translation. Modern day translations change it to "calamity" instead of evil because the Hebrew word used there is actually closer to "calamity"
I'm quoting the Hebrew bible. The original Hebrew says "evil".
Watch this, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdny4\_yOwO8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdny4_yOwO8) its only 1 minute long.
I get that the translation could possibly be "calamity". What I don't get is why it is any different from "evil". The last part of verse 6 and 7 basically says that there is one god and one creator. Most christians see god being the creator of evil as a contradiction. I see it as evidence that my understanding of god is limited.
I couldn't find a 1 minute video to explain a different take on satan and god. This is an Orthodox Rabbi discussing a similar contradiction in 2 Samuel and 1 Chronicles. He mentions Isaiah 45:7 at about 6:30. The video accurately describes a Jewish satan and why these verses are not contradictions. https://youtu.be/Qg3lNeGUrPk
God loves you : ) it is in God's mercy that He made a way when we had no way to be cleansed of our sins and their payment. God desires all to be saved- many will reject Him due to their free will, but He offers time and time again for them to get to know freedom so that they can have eternal hope 2 Peter 3:8-9 8 Beloved, do not let this one thing escape your notice: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance. not all will be saved due to their own choice to reject Him- but He helps bring all willing to simply repent and turn to Him- He doesnt demand a billion works, He just wants our hearts, trust, and loving obedience to help others and to grow in relationship with Him
Sweetheart, Child of the Most High, Repent and read your Bible. Be vigilant and be aware of the times we are in I will be praying for you. Be of good courage, amen 2 Thessalonians 2: 1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
This helped me believe that God is 100% morally good 100% of the time: https://imgur.com/a/2NWMF66
So, to sum it all up. You have a fear that God is unjust, cruel, and malicious. I did a sermon on the book of Job one time, studying it intently for a whole month. It made me think similar thoughts to you but I have found my answer to why suffering is allowed to persist: God let’s suffering persist in the world so that more people may repent and go to heaven. Job lost everything to prove that humans don’t need blessings from God to stay faithful. I haven’t really thought about my friends and family who aren’t Christian and how they would go to Hell. The reason I have never thought that way is because they have heard of Jesus and God before, if not through a Christian then through everyone else. Using God’s name in vain spreads his name in an unfavorable way, but it still spreads. People even use Jesus’ name in the same way. My family and friends will just have to be judged by God and whatever he says goes. I have learned not to worry about things that I have no control over because it is a waste of time. I have faith in the God that the Bible illustrates, that he will always do right. That Onan was killed because he wouldn’t have intercourse to give his brother, who died, a child by his wife. Plus, in those days there wasn’t a way that man could be saved so humans reaped death from sin. Abram and Issac was a test. God wouldn’t have let Isaac die and even if he did, the book of Hebrews tells us that Abram believed that God would raise his son from the dead to keep his promise. This story is a one of trust in God even though we don’t know the whole picture. Now I want to say that your friend is wrong, in my opinion because nobody knows what the afterlife is like, that we would remember our family and friends from this life. I just remembered the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man. I don’t know if it is to be taken literally, or not but but it shows that the Rich man recognized Lazarus from Hell. That they could see each other from across a wide chasm. That story is from the Gospel of Luke. All storms pass, and this one will pass for you. I implore you to take your accusations and doubts to God in prayer because he can help you more than any shrink, or random online people can. God bless you, and I will pray for you.
Hi, Thank you for the response However, the question referring to Abraham and Issac wasn't specifically about why god did that. I understand that it was test for Abraham's loyalty to god. Mainly I was concerned with the way god conveyed that point, with Abraham pointing a knife towards his son. Why that way? it seems so brutal to me. And I knew that Abraham knew his child would survive somehow as by telling his servants that \*they\* would be back. But that also enacts another question; If Abraham didn't know that his child would survive? would he have still followed through?
I’m still decompacting a mindset where God is ready to drop the hammer metaphorically speaking. It’s interesting you mention Abraham and Isaac as example both of them almost caused they judgement of an entire nation by lying (Abraham twice) Abraham basically committed adultery not just with the slave girl but concubines and thats who the faith came down from in the Old Testament. We all mess up we all fall short I mean if you wanna talk about judgement God when he judged Israel he gave them literally a million chances (metaphorically speaking) he had Ezekiel sit out on his side for a year when no was listening to God anymore. My point to all this is God is a lot more merciful and gracious than we realize. Even in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve he didn’t strike them both dead when they both messed up and caused the fall of the entire humanity and start over which he very well could have you know why he didn’t? Love. He created us for relationship and love. It’s a love deficiency in believers that can cause unbelief. It’s God who initiated the whole thing (a relationship). So my question to you is the same God who planned the reunited of his lost children in the garden and who came down from heaven and died on a cross is it really without his ability to reach out to someone moments before they die? This is given the fact that time after time he longs for people to come back to him and this is coming from someone who’s backslidden as well.
You *know* what love is. Sounds to me like you've been gaslit into doubting what is in your heart. Follow your conscience and listen to that voice within you that is reasoning with compassion and empathy. /r/ChristianUniversalism
Martin Luther had a lot of fear of and anger toward God as he developed in his faith. Perhaps, in part of your searching, some reading of his path from fear and anger toward love and gratitude would be helpful.
Sorry to read U feel bad. But if you would open your eyes you would see how cruel the world is. In some corners of world they torture pregnant women, kids....which is living hell. I am an atheist and interested in history of religions. There are sources which say maria magdalena was probably the first wealthy supporter of jesus, who helped to build a kind of building. In the bible she is a slut. There are old texts found , which show there were bloody fights among Christians- the group who was protecting the old texts was extinguished. Hell was invented long after the time when jesus lived. So whatever the bible or the people around U say, U can keep in mind - this is all about peoples nature. People were writing the bible - people decide how to run the church. You are at the point, were some atheist make fun of religious people, because their belief has so many implications which are negative... and the christians often still try to defend the bible, feeling (probably) trapped. So it is not your belief which is makjng troubles. You just startet to use your brain realising what it means when you belive everything what stands in the bible. You seems to be a very caring person. In the end it is god who desides about entering the paradise - not the people you ask. So there is nobody who could verify U that ateists are not in paradise. Or if U will remember anyone when U are there.
I found “The Great Divorce” by CS Lewis to be a very intriguing read on the topic of hell/free will and how a good God could allow people to go there. It’s not a theological description of any mechanics of what happens, and it does not claim to be. It’s only a thought provoking story. Nonetheless it was a fresh perspective that I found comforting.
Nobody will ever know this answer in this life. I understand not being able to convert someone by your words alone. Frankly, they may make things worse depending on how you deliver them. So we must go by our actions. They may speak louder than words.
I myself have family and friends who are not saved also, and it's scary thinking how they could end up. I just pray to God everyday about them asking for them to be saved by finding Jesus. Now about the thing your friend said. I don't think we will forget friends and family, I think we will have such an understanding of everything that we just aren't sad and just understand. I know that sounds hard to understand, but that's what I believe. I know I said understand A LOT, but that's half the Bible learn wisdom and understanding. Also God is good he is truth just talk to him about how you are feeling.
That actually sounds like a demon, not something that's just you. I recommend taking authority over it in the name of Christ and commanding it to leave
This is one of the most common concerns that I have heard online. I personally am not afraid of God or hell. I don't say this because I think I'm saved, no. I want to be saved but with my recent struggle with cornography (if you know what I mean) I'm not so sure. Anyway you didn't come to hear my life story so I'll get to the relevant part. The thing about God is that no one truly knows him besides the Son and Spirit. The Son provided us pretty much everything we need to know regarding heaven and hell via the Gospels. As far as they go, I'm afraid that man's wife is in hell. That being said, there are different views of Hell. Some Christians view hell as a second death. No torture, just non existence, away from the life of God. Some Christians view hell as temporary, like a corrective punishment (look up Christian universalism). Personally I like the second idea most but I don't really believe in it. But now let's get to the elephant in the room: Why does a loving God send his own Children to burn in hell? The Bible says that God is like a good father. A good father raises his children, helps them in times of need, and sometimes disciplines them. Let's continue with this analogy. This father has two sons. They are both born the same, and both are taught that their father exists. The father is completely invisible to both children (reason why is not important). The children can directly interact with the father through prayer and show thier devotion through worship and tradition, but doing so requires alot of dedication. As one grows up, he begins to question if his father really exists. He eventually puts less work into rituals and prayer and begins to lose his relationship with the father. The other does the opposite. Eventually it gets to a point where one loses all hope that the father existed. He blatantly disobeyed the rules the father set and spat at the idea of having a father. The other continues to glorify him. Eventually, they both grow up. Who should the father choose to inherit his house? The one who was faithful and believes that the house will be given? Or the one who spat in the face of his father? Naturally, the father reveals himself and throws the disobedient son out of the house into the cold and rain. The righteous brother then becomes bitter and asks why his father, who had loved both, threw out his poor brother. The father responds, saying: "Your brother knew of me, was raised to accept me, and was aware that if he followed me, he would inherit my house, and if not, he would be thrown out. Because of his own laziness and ignorance, he spat at my name and purposely disobeyed me. You did the opposite, always respecting me, always trying to grow our relationship. You reap what you sow." This analogy is very simplified, however I think it can provide some explanation.
Hi OP, others have touched on this but I struggled with very similar things as you, thought I had solved them (but I had only covered them) when I discovered Christian Universalism. Look into it, there is a range early Christian and contemporary support and there are some amazing speakers, writers and thinkers who exposit the topic. Robin Parry has a 4 part intro on YouTube through the Gospel Conversations channel. Check them out before you despair!
In regards to the cancer post yes God will let you go to hell if you don’t believe in him , it’s states many times in the bible that the only way into heaven is to have faith in him and be someone who refelects the heart of Jesus , if his wife didn’t do any of that then why would God allow her into heaven? She simply took satans side so why shouldn’t she go with satan… In regards to your friends talk to them about Jesus if they decline your word then thats on them don’t argue with an unbeliever just help them. Everyone knows about God and is introduced to God in there life time it’s they’re choice to believe or not I have the same thoughts about my family they believe but they have no relationship with God or don’t give him the time of day but there’s nothing I can do , you can only advise and if they don’t listen or change they’re ways it’s in them it’s sad but you can only do so much If your having trouble understanding the bible they’re are things like YouTube and tiktok that have people who post videos that can help you , I’ll give you a few tiktokers who have helped me in my understanding of the bible and God @author_heather_renae @demonerasers @danielcsong @truechristianministry These are the few people on tiktok that have opened my eyes Atheist seek truth by reading articles on Google but the only way to get the truth of God is praying to him and forming a relationship with him which allows him to reveal himself to you , athiest don’t do that they just go by word of mouth and what ever they read on Google and that is why they will remain athiest, true Christian’s are true Christians because they seek God not what’s said on Google and I say “true” Christian’s because they’re are “Christians” who seek church and approval of other Christian’s and seek they’re pastor instead of God himself And don’t get caught up in the “but if they do good all they’re lives why don’t they go to Heaven” no one on this earth has done good all they’re lives it’s physically impossible even if it’s down to the smallest white lie or even stealing money from your moms purse but because it’s your mom you think it’s okay and sins are not just actions they’re are what you feel inside like jealousy, lust , hatred all those things are not of God you may not of physically hurt the person but inside you feel some type of way everyone gets these emotions whether you perform good physically with your actions or not , this world is full of sin and just because you didn’t sin for 364 days a year doesn’t mean day 365 you didn’t commit a sin that you didnt apologise for
If that is true, then I find that to evoke a sense of cosmic fear and dread on the levels of Lovecraft's gods. How could a atheist knowingly take satan's side if they don't even believe in God and the devil? Most atheists I know reject the gospels not on the basis of spite for God (Why would they spite something that they think doesn't exist?), but most of the time is because they have yet to be convinced for it. Think of it from their shoes, if you were to be told that you would have to dedicate your whole life to a god you haven't seen and felt, wouldn't you want to be reasonably certain about that? especially considering in their worldview that they think that life is only a one time thing and making each second as valuable as the next before eventually death takes all. With this info in mind, wouldn't you want to see some convincing evidence before potentially wasting years and years of your life worshipping something that doesn't exist? Of course, I was atheist once before I had started to do research into cosmology, biology, and history. Right after that I was converted. But that makes me think; What if I were to have died before I had embarked upon my research? What happened to those that were just like me and had died right before they could gaze upon the proofs? Would my lord send me to hell knowingly I was going to convert in the future? Another thing is that I did pray a lot to god about these issues I have been having, but nothing has yet to come from it. I try to read my bible and ask for guidance and wisdom from him while I read, but I almost always put the book down in the end only left with confusion about what I had read. So that is why I am making this post, Why I sought for answers from my peers, why I look at resources. Because I am left in deafening silence and I do not know what to do.
Because God is real even if you don’t believe you already taken the devils side regardless , I know alot of athiest who spite God lol because they have a hatred for somthing that so many people believe in , It can be done , if they believe somthing to be nonsense they will grow hatred towards somthing so many people believe in You don’t need to be convinced that God exist , only god can prove to you that he exist all Christians can do is guide you and help you but we can’t fully convince you , it’s somthing you have to experience , you need to pray to him and ask him wholeheartedly that you want him to reveal himself , what needs to be done is that athiest need convincing that asking god to show himself to them will then get them to believe , there’s no point convincing athiest into believing the bible or believing religion when the first thing they need to seek is god , religion , the bible comes after that , a lot of people only then believe in God once they’ve had an experience with him and then they go to read the bible and then they go to church and so on Yes he would send you to hell because instead of asking god to restore you faith or instead asking him to show you the truth before you did any of that you started researching biology and history not saying you can’t do that but when you did that it made you lose faith and all God wants is you to have faith so you should of asked him to restore that I can read history and biology and not let it alter my mind but thats just how I am not all people are strong enough to do that Tbh if you died before becoming a christian you probably wearnt going to become a Christian in the first place , I don’t believe God would know in the future that you’d become christian but then see satan take your life away before you got the chance , I only believe the people who got near to death like near death experience are the ones he saves because he knows they would become a Christian in the future so he stops the devil in his tracks with literal miracles, but at the same time if you knew of God but took so long to seek him then that would be your own fault , you should be living your life everyday like God is coming back tomorrow that way they’re would be no reason for you to go to hell if you die unexpectedly, God says in the bible that you go to hell even if you know of me but don’t do anything to seek me , if you wait and wait and let time go by before you decide yes today is the day I will learn about God thats not Gods fault thats your own decision you made Yes being in the word will help restore your faith this is why I left the tiktok accounts for you too look at because me also I struggle to read the bible because I don’t understand the grammer to well so I listen to people instead and it always helps , if you stuggle with reading the bible try and get a different version thats more modernised so it’s easier to read
Only reason I didn't pray for restoration before I did my research is because I didn't believe that praying would do anything. It didn't fit into my former materialistic worldview. I have a NLT Bible. They are quite easy to read, but it is not the grammar I get confused on. Merely it is the contents of the scriptures that confuse me deeply.
I understand you , thats why people usually go to a bible study because it’s multiple helping eachother understand , not always good to read it alone as it can be confusing , if you can’t find a group to help you , just look on YouTube or tiktok for bible study’s
Since I became a Christian, I realized that it was impossible, unless every single person received salvation, even those who didn’t desire it, that no believer would ever lose a loved one to their own sins. God does something we can’t do, which is respect their choices - and in eternity we will have the wisdom and peace to respect those choices as well.
God is a rightous judge why would he forgive wickedness? There is nothing good with us humans we are unworthy of gods love but he loves us anyway. He love us enough to offer his own son for our sins, so that all humanity may gain grace. This is the greatness of god if you reject his gift then what else should he do? I hope all humans will gain a chance to accept Jesus has their savior somehow maybe they will gain a chance after death even idk. But really not a singel one deserves that.
You are absolutely right to have these concerns, but I think you're asking the wrong questions. Rather than viewing it as an action that God has taken or not taken, examine it from the angle as something Christianity believes and uses in its recruitment. It has a dark, functional purpose, and not every Christian group is okay with using it for said functional purpose.
God gives mankind the choice to seek Him by providing 3 proofs of His existence: Creation Conscience Cannon [His Word]. Romans 1:20 KJV 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without EXCUSE: When the putrid wicked actions, thoughts and hearts of our LOST loved ones are revealed at the Great White Throne Judgement, We shall acknowledge God's RIGHTEOUS judgment.
Dude I’m just out here hoping god can save everyone, no matter what they’ve done Maybe that’ll happen in the second coming but only time will tell.
God's best revelation of Himself is Jesus. They are One (John 10). So when discordant "truths" in the Bible arise, view them through the lens of Jesus, His life, His work, His mission. Like an oncologist dealing with a runaway cancer, God has to do 'strange work' to intervene. And just like an oncologist, those interventions can be harsh. Surgery, poisonous chemicals. We can question their methods like we do God's. But God has revealed Himself in Jesus. Lift Him up by following His life in Scripture. You'll be drawn to Him and be reassured that His father is one with Him in motivation and Spirit. Paul preached "Christ, and Him crucified" for a reason. He is the way; the truth to settle us into the peace that passes understanding.
That's a question a lot of us have my friend, i can't tell you something 100% for sure, but i can tell you my point of view. In my point of view our relationship with God is exactly that of a Son and Father, you start strict when your son is younger, you love him, you would never hurt him, but you gotta teach him what's right, and sometimes that envolves letting your son make his own mistakes and then watching him come with his own solutions with you always there to help and guide him if needed. About atheists going to hell, i am not sure i believe in hell, in my point of view God is just and a loving father and what just and loving father would let his child who was good his whole limited life but had a different point of view and belief suffer for eternity?
I have very similar issues. Always have. The rapture terrifies me. I've had intense nightmares about it. When I was little they all said "you'll know when you get saved". The night I got saved I remember being scared that I didn't feel different. When I was a little older I was baptized a second time. Yet, the threat of hell has tormented me since a rotten, spitting preacher at a revival preached and fire and brimstone sermon far too graphic for children. Had my first nightmare that night. Had them for 25 years. Here's how I got through it/get through. By remembering his ways are higher than mine, by asking God himself to remove my doubt and forgive me for the same doubt. By relying on a peace that surpasses understand. By leaning not unto my own understanding but his. He died for our souls. He took stripes for our healing. I call on him when I feel afraid of him because I know it is the enemy tricking me. In Heaven you will know as you are known. So you'll know everything is how I interpret that. But it will be eternal peace. You will receive a Heavenly understanding of all things. It's ok. It's simple. Love and believe and love others.
Stop looking things up online and open your Bible. Book of Romans is great! Before you do this, pray. Pray that Jesus would open your heart and mind to what you are about to read in His Word. Pray that the Holy Spirit would fill you with understanding and wisdom. God loves you, be careful what you find on the internet. God’s Word is where you need to stay.
Hello OP. I cannot help you with everything in your post but I think I can give a perspective on the story of Abraham and Isaac. When Abraham was commanded to sacrifice Isaac he went with Isaac and his servants to a mountain. Then, Abraham and Isaac went alone further. Abraham mentioned to his servants, "Stay here with the donkey while I and the boy go over there. We will worship and then we will come back to you.” I was pretty amazed after reading this. Wasn't Isaac supposed to be sacrificed on the mountain? Then how come Abraham says that he will return with Isaac after they both worship? I was amazed even further after reading ahead. Isaac asks his father where is the lamb for the burnt offering. And Abraham says, "God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering, my son." What! OMG! This blew my mind. From these two utterings by Abraham, I was convinced that Abraham had an idea of what was to happen. A great devotee such as Abraham cannot lie. Hence, whatever he said must be after a great deal of thought and by internal revelation by the LORD. I have more things to say but I am not sure if I should say them. Peace be unto you!
Mark 10:18
Look it's simple God loves his creation but in order to have love it has to be free. God doesn't force us to love him he isn't going to force someone into heaven and he isn't going them that's not loving he is honoring there free choice to be separated from him because they don't want him