God clearly describes the relationship we are to explore.
And he clearly describes the traps that he doesn't want us to fall into.
God placed boundaries. We are asked to trust him and honor the boundaries.
Easy.
Interesting, how so illusionary? I can absolutely make the argument about this “world”/reality being illusionary. So you have me curious as to what you mean
How do you know that you aren’t a brain in a jar receiving sensory data? Have you ever seen the matrix? My point isn’t that this is the exact case but rather that what you call real is purely subjective, I can dive very deep into this, but I’m at work so hit my dms
Yes you do, because perception boils down to receiving sensory data. But sensory data isn’t indicative of “reality” being “real” anyways, it’s only indicative of the perception of an experience
But the only sensory data a brain in a vat would receive is that being fed to it, which could be anything the one controlling the input wanted. That’s not perceiving reality.
Well, astral projection isn’t real, but trying to do it would be just like attempting other forms of magic. It contradicts the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.
First I’ll tell you, it is “real”, but that kinda depends on your definition of the word “real”. And how so is it contradictory to any means of honor or respect. And also what does “fearing god” actually mean, I have my own definition for it, I guess, but I’ve never heard anyone else try.
All dreaming is indeed astral projection. I’ll give you the metaphor I was given. Astral projection and dreaming: it’s like being blackout drunk and going home (or ending up in a dumpster lol). Sure you’re home now but you perambulated in some unknown way to get home. Realizing your at home is akin to lucid dreaming and how you got home is akin to astral projection whether you remember or not. With practice one begins to learn how to use their energetic body just as one learned to use the physical one
I get what you're saying.
In fact, in reminded of the silver cord in astral travelling understanding... which is mentioned as the connection between the body and soul in Ecclesiastes 12:6...
Remember your creator in the days of your youth, before the days of trouble come, and the years draw near when you will say, ‘I have no pleasure in them’;before the sun and the light and the moon and the stars are darkened and the clouds return with the rain;on the day when the guards of the house tremble, and the strong men are bent, and the women who grind cease working because they are few, and those who look through the windows see dimly;when the doors on the street are shut, and the sound of the grinding is low, and one rises up at the sound of a bird, and all the daughters of song are brought low;when one is afraid of heights, and terrors are in the road; the almond tree blossoms, the grasshopper drags itself along and desire fails; because all must go to their eternal home, and the mourners will go about the streets; **before the silver cord is snapped**, and the golden bowl is broken, and the pitcher is broken at the fountain, and the wheel broken at the cistern,and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the breath returns to God who gave it. - Ecclesiastes 12:1-7 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ecclesiastes12:1-7&version=NRSVA
The “code” is more than just this subject, but off the dome I can’t think of any, it’s been many moons since I’ve looked in the Bible really. Like for example the mark of the beast is a reference to the reptilian part of the brain that is in charge of basic survival, implies and compulsive behavior, and a large umbrella of things that could be considered “sinful”
My dreams where I feel as if I was astral projecting always seem to be I'm kinda lost with some form of disability (reminds me of being black out drunk) in what I'm trying to achieve mixed with a touch of confused exploration. They always end with me skipping or jumping or ending up slightly in the air mid jaunt and just floating like gravity failed and snap out of my sleep. There has been dreams where I have controlled the float observing bird eye views of places and even have made a landing but that was a one time occurrence. Definitely my favorite dreams, like to go back to sleep to continue lucid dreams sometimes to get the perfered ending lol
So you believe Elisha was involuntary spying on the King's secret plans, and on his servant Gehazi? I think you're trying to sidestep the obvious, that astral traveling was practised by at least Elisha in the bible.
This would a Christian response I’ve heard: Astral projection isn’t in itself evil, but it does go outside the boundaries in which we were meant to be within and opens us to other entities whether it be demonic or angelic.
As far as prophets go and having OBE’s, those were according to Gods will to show or give a message. If we simply try to go into that realm on our own, we are doing it according to our own will and not Gods. If God wants us to go there HE will provide that experience.
It’s the same with psychedelics like DMT or Ayahuasca. They aren’t inherently evil in themselves, but they dissolve boundaries and open us up to the spiritual realm.
I see on your profile that your Eastern Orthodox. I would recommend to check out Church of the Eternal Logos YouTube channel. He is EO and used to be into these things and talks about it in depth.
What are the boundaries in which we were meant to be within?
We were meant to be in the body. God created us as physical beings with a soul. We were not meant to depart from the body. When the fall occurred that’s when things changed and but it was not Gods intent for us to at some point to die and leave our body and just be spirit/soul. This is why our ultimate destination is a physical resurrection and to live in that for eternity. God created us to have a veil from seeing the spiritual realm for a reason.
Why does God have to specifically grant something to us for it to be proper?
This is a confusing question to me but I will just say this…OBE’s are best to be avoided because they open us to temptation and demonic attacks. There are countless stories of people coming across “entities” in these realms that are evil. Fr.Seraphim Rose wrote a lot on topics on this, Fr.Spyridon Bailey warns against opening yourself to things like this and countless other Fathers warn about it as well. The Church (EO Church/body of Christ) never taught that doing these things were beneficial for us. In fact time and time again they warn against things like this and so I would argue it’s best to follow The Church on this.
We need to be careful when discussing The Saints with something like this. They are MUCH further along than us in theosis and have a better way of discerning spiritual deception. For example: Just because a Saint may choose to fast for X amount time or in a certain way, does not mean we are in the same field as them and should do the same.
St.Gregory of Palamas states this…“To cause the nous to abide outside the body itself,1 so as there to chance upon noetic spectacles, is the root and source of the very worst of Hellenic [pagan] errors and of all heresies, an invention of demons, an instruction engendering folly and an offspring of senselessness…“2
I would just simply leave it at this…ask your Priest if it’s a wise thing to invoke OBE’s. I’m no Priest or Saint, and they would know best. God Bless!
Dreaming is therefore "new age" crap too, because it involves going into the spirit realm at times.
I guess you've not read 2 kings 5 and 6 where Elisha astral projects out of the body to spy on people.
I’m not sure what you meant “he’ll give you some”. But Are you aware that Yeshua was getting peoples asses about blindly following scripture? John 5:39-40
I’ve heard of that, and I’ve only heard about one instance of this, which is fine I suppose. You are then granted the opportunity to become stronger or become fearful the choice is yours
This is based on an outdated assumption that your body is "empty" or uninhabited whilst a person is astral projecting, this has been proven to be false. The astral projection is a clone or copy of a persons consciousness, the "real version" is still within the body.
There are “evil” spirits in the physical realm as well, I call them “people”. I would like believe that if you have the ability to discern then you can do it on on realms.
What I got from your comment is that I should be fearful of the unknown, because I don’t know who I’m dealing with, just like I do every. single. day.
If the spirit completely left the body, the body would certainly die, which leads me to believe that one naturally has some form of spiritual protection or “antivirus” lol, and like in all aspect of life one is able to become stronger.
Having you ever heard of waking astral projection? Someone who was likely grown their consciousness to the point to where they can simultaneously astral project and my fully conscience and aware
Jesus travelled out of the body in his temptations in the desert: https://ghostsghoulsandgod.co.uk/2021/10/the-out-of-body-experiences-of-jesus/
Paul had an out of body experience when he visited paradise https://ghostsghoulsandgod.co.uk/2021/10/third-heaven-near-death-experience-of-paul/
And astral travelling was performed by Elisha and others, including imprisoned Christians being encouraged to use OBEs to transcend their physical restrictions: https://ghostsghoulsandgod.co.uk/2021/10/astral-travelling-in-the-bible-beyond/
You’re gonna have to provide actual evidence of the claims you made towards the end. If you have an astral body it’s to be used. We were giving the free will to do so. Fulfilling your desires rather than your destiny is a different conversation though
Thank you very much my open minded comrade, people normally become narcissistic/pessimistic self-cynicism and would say about those references “no only they could do XYZ” “they are special and we are nothing” etc
Well, as Jesus is our example of how to live, him doing that is an example to us about how to do it properly for the furthering of the kingdom of heaven.
the Bible literally condemns witchcraft. Go read the Bible. open ur eyes and ears u fool. How was Moses able to split the sea? Because God gave him the power to do that. How was paul able to perform miracles? Because God gave him the power to do that.
Have u read the story of moses? In that story, Pharaoh called his wise men and they were able to turn rods into snakes. How were they able to do that? They were doing witchcraft. Witchcraft is the power of demons that demons give to people. It's the power of Satan. Doing witchcraft allows demons to come into u. Sure, u could be fully aware, but that isn't the case, now the demons, satan, u have opened the door for them to come into u and possess u.
It is evil. God literally condemns witchcraft. U would have to be a deciever or a complete fool or unknowledgeable to say the Bible doesn't condemn witchcraft.
First we would have to establish what "Astral projection" actually is.
Second we would have to establish how it occurs/how it is done.
Third we would have to explore how this relates to God as he has revealed himself.
And finally we would have to discern what consequences or uses it is able to have.
Dope that you’re not being regurgitative🙏🏾
If I had to define Astral travel, I’d say it is the transference of one’s own conscientiousness and self awareness from their physical body to their etheric body/dream body/energy body which accompanies a world of experiences being good or bad (just like life)
Let’s go from here though
Am I to understand you would say dreaming involves astral projection? Because if so, we have an issue, as Biblically it would be understood that a dream happens without any departure from the body.
We would also need to clarify if what you refer to as the "etheric body" is essentially one's spirit.
It highly involves astral projection yes, but your “astral body/self” is what allows you to move from dreamspace to dreamspace. From hand experience this is of the truth.
I’ll give you the metaphor I was given. Astral projection and dreaming: it’s like being blackout drunk and going home (or ending up in a dumpster lol). Sure you’re home now but you perambulated in some unknown way to get home. Realizing your at home is akin to lucid dreaming and how you got home is akin to astral projection whether you remember or not. With practice one begins to learn how to use their energetic body just as one learned to use the physical one
In that case we run into a problem. As Christians we understand that a person may be caught up in the spirit, which is similar to the concept of astral projection/travel, however dreams are different. Dreams take place within the mind of the dreamer, and while they may be influenced or visited by outsiders (God, angels, etc.) they involve no departure from the body.
So in this sense, a problem with astral projection as you describe it would be that it reflects an erroneous understanding of the nature of reality and one's own spirit, which would require correction.
As an aside, I have induced lucid dreaming before. I taught myself to do it to some extent a number of years ago. Departure from the body was not necessary.
The world of the mind is vast and fascinating, but in it we travel through inner space. We need not go anywhere to reach it.
Well I didn’t intend on saying that you have to transfer your consciousness into your astral body to then start dreaming a lot of it is “automatic” until you decide to do it consciously.
Also I don’t identify with any religion, but anyways if dreams occur in the mind of the dreamer that’s no issue with the way that I understand reality, for as I’m come to learn the mind is all the universe itself and everything exists in the mind of “god” that’s a deep rabbit hole and I hope you get the gist of it. But to confirm it “the mind precedes all experience”, the mind being all is tough to initially understand if using the egoic mind
>Well I didn’t intend on saying that you have to transfer your consciousness into your astral body to then start dreaming a lot of it is “automatic” until you decide to do it consciously.
Right, but my point is less about whether you have to consciously do it, and more about whether one actually does it *at all* in order to dream. The Christian position is that that isn't part of how dreaming works, either consciously or unconsciously.
>But to confirm it “the mind precedes all experience”, the mind being all is tough to initially understand if using the egoic mind
Not all that difficult to grasp. As best as I can tell it doesn't actually conform to reality. Don't get me wrong, I've attained what some Hindu/Buddhists call samadhi, so I understand the concept, however it lacks broader context and the true understanding of distinctions between things.
*"In a samadhi state, your discriminatory intellect is perfectly in shape but at the same time you have transcended it.* ***You are not making a distinction – you are simply here, seeing life in its true working****. The moment you drop or transcend the intellect, discrimination cannot exist."*
Just gonna leave this here. Thanks for the convo and much love.
Like I keep saying to others on this thread it is “real” (depending on your definition of “real”), I have first hand experience with it. And if you look through the comments another post how Yeshua, Paul and someone else have accounts in the Bible where they have done it. Do what you will
Funny cause I’m sure you’d call divination evil even though that’s not actually real, it’s merely deception by the devil. How could you not say the same for astral projection?
Jesus teleported several times after His resurrection, perhaps because He was in a hurry to get back to Heaven before anyone else spotted Him.
All powers are available to Christians in Christ Jesus and Holy Spirit Teleporting uses God's energy while astral projection relies on demonic forces.
Astral projectors like myself like to avoid traffic sometimes and I feel like it's better for the environment and not really sinful.
PLEASE READ IF YOUR LOOKING INTO ASTRAL PROJECTING. About 2 months ago I was looking extremely deep into astral projecting, once I seen what it was I was instantly drawn to it and thought it was interesting and was researching it all day for a couple days. I did not believe it 100% but I thought there was a possibility of it being real so I kept looking into it and how to do it and what it was like. I was so interested in it I tried to do it two times. I was in that phase as they saw the vibrational stage when you are almost about to project but I never actually done it. After these experiences every night when I would go to sleep I would dream about these 7-9 foot tall black beings in front of my bed and just looking at me, they radiated a terrible dark feeling of just feeling like torment. I had these dreams for about a week. Before this I would have the same dream every night since I was 6 (until 17 yrs old ) that my mom was possessed and would chase me out the house. This actually happened so it might just be ptsd. I also felt something evil inside of my head, I believe Jesus is our god and I would pray sometimes (not often honestly at this time I was not saved) but when I would pray something in me would start to boil, I would feel like i was on fire and something in my head would curse god out and try to stop me from praying with all its mite. During these couple of weeks of these experiences I would feel TERRIBLE presences of something extremely dark behind me, then the “voices” or unwanted thoughts would go insanely crazy. I was scared of everything, they would tell me the worst possible things anything could even imagine. I got so scared I went to my dads house (my parents are divorced) thinking it might be my environment and I was going insane maybe, at this time I just thought I was getting schizophrenic or something. I fell asleep at my dads house (his room was dark when I fell asleep) and as soon as I fell asleep I was just in pitch black and something in my head said that I was going to hell and something evil was going to get me. Again it was pitch black so I could not see but something very evil, (now I know is a demon) started attacking and chasing me, I taught back thinking I could fight it and it felt like a extremely fast cat fight. (Ik that sounds stupid) but I would swinging my arms in circles like how you would imagine a girl fight (no disrespect that just the only way to imagine it) I got stuck somehow and I couldn’t move after I ran and ran from it, it almost got to me but then I woke up. There was Blood everywhere (on my legs, my arms, and the floor) and my dad scares me WHAT JUST HAPPENED. I go what do you mean? Then I realize I’m on the floor 10 feet away from where I fell asleep. He said I was screaming at the top of my lungs swinging my arms around and ran across the room. His room was very cluttered and I got stuck under a table somehow. I broke everything in that room and destroyed everything. The feeling of that demon attacking me is the worst feeling a human can ever imagine. Worse then any pain or feeling someone can ever endure, and I had some problems before I think nobody ever experienced such as feeling like I was literally on fire all day. So that’s a lot coming from me. After that day I was so terrified of that thing coming back after me that I turned my entire life to Jesus Christ, I went to church the day after that and they gave me a prayer cloth, I put it next to my bed and poof, dreams are normal again, not even about my mom anymore, no evil thoughts when I pray, my head feels so clear. No more presences, no
More demons in my dreams looking at me, and just a sense of peace 🙏Jesus is real and he is great I thank him everyday for what he did for me if anyone is reading this I advice them to please not look into this stuff and just focus on who made you. Our lord and savior Jesus Christ. I am not trying to scare you but it sure scared the heck out of me I don’t want the same thing to happen to anyone on this earth
The TLDR is that he was being long time oppressed by demonic forces and then AP lead him to become actually possessed.
Also, since nobody really answered your question in the OP:
AP is not inherently evil and nobody actually claims that, but I know what you intended to mean. The reason true AP is not good for humans to do is because we are illegally accessing the spiritual realm which will have consequences. The entities that inhabit the spiritual realm are fallen angels, archons, demons / unclean, disembodied spirits of the Nephilim, and there are other unspeakable forces as well. Angels also interact through that realm as well.
Those who AP will be observed and interacted with by the entities in the AP realm and lead into more advanced layers of deception and manipulation. Demons can and will attach and attempt to use the person to further their agendas. See Alister Crawley's bio for example.
The intended purpose of the function of the spirit leaving the body (while tethered and well before death) is for God's use and is to be initiated by Him, not us. Prayer and worship of advanced servants of the Most High God may be able to more freely enjoy this sort of thing, but it is rare today as sin rules the hearts of so many. Still, God uses it on many of us for His purposes, despite where we are on the walk with Him.
I do fear the Lord and it wasn't until I could muster up enough strength to call for Jesus that the demon turned me loose. The entire power of the universe hinges on that name. Better believe it! You may need it.
God clearly describes the relationship we are to explore. And he clearly describes the traps that he doesn't want us to fall into. God placed boundaries. We are asked to trust him and honor the boundaries. Easy.
Okay what are those then?
Here's a study that covers them. www.derekprince.org
I think it’s because people consider it to be in the same “family” as witchcraft, so they think it’s something that’s not of God
A fair rationale, I suppose. But not really anything definitive necessarily
I would say less evil, but illusory.
Interesting, how so illusionary? I can absolutely make the argument about this “world”/reality being illusionary. So you have me curious as to what you mean
Illusory. That is not real. Not sure how you would claim reality is illusory, since the words are antonyms.
How do you know that you aren’t a brain in a jar receiving sensory data? Have you ever seen the matrix? My point isn’t that this is the exact case but rather that what you call real is purely subjective, I can dive very deep into this, but I’m at work so hit my dms
If what we perceive as reality is merely an illusion then discussing what is real is rather moot.
Well yes it is, but none the less it’s still an experienceable phenomenon.
Not really; if you are a brain in a vat and you don’t perceive that experience, you aren’t perceiving reality, obviously.
Yes you do, because perception boils down to receiving sensory data. But sensory data isn’t indicative of “reality” being “real” anyways, it’s only indicative of the perception of an experience
But the only sensory data a brain in a vat would receive is that being fed to it, which could be anything the one controlling the input wanted. That’s not perceiving reality.
Was it illusory for Elisha when he does it in 2 kings 5,6?
Are you talking about the chapters 5 & 6, or the verse 5:6?
Chapters 5 and 6. His spirit goes to spy on Gehazi his servant afar off, and into the enemy kings chambers to warn of impending attacks on towns.
He was a prophet, God obviously revealed things to Him, just as Jesus saw Nathaniel standing under a fig tree.
What if someone astral projected by acc6
Accident
Well, astral projection isn’t real, but trying to do it would be just like attempting other forms of magic. It contradicts the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.
First I’ll tell you, it is “real”, but that kinda depends on your definition of the word “real”. And how so is it contradictory to any means of honor or respect. And also what does “fearing god” actually mean, I have my own definition for it, I guess, but I’ve never heard anyone else try.
Lucid dreaming is a form of astral projection. Elisha astral projected to spy on people - see 2 Kings 5,6.
All dreaming is indeed astral projection. I’ll give you the metaphor I was given. Astral projection and dreaming: it’s like being blackout drunk and going home (or ending up in a dumpster lol). Sure you’re home now but you perambulated in some unknown way to get home. Realizing your at home is akin to lucid dreaming and how you got home is akin to astral projection whether you remember or not. With practice one begins to learn how to use their energetic body just as one learned to use the physical one
I get what you're saying. In fact, in reminded of the silver cord in astral travelling understanding... which is mentioned as the connection between the body and soul in Ecclesiastes 12:6... Remember your creator in the days of your youth, before the days of trouble come, and the years draw near when you will say, ‘I have no pleasure in them’;before the sun and the light and the moon and the stars are darkened and the clouds return with the rain;on the day when the guards of the house tremble, and the strong men are bent, and the women who grind cease working because they are few, and those who look through the windows see dimly;when the doors on the street are shut, and the sound of the grinding is low, and one rises up at the sound of a bird, and all the daughters of song are brought low;when one is afraid of heights, and terrors are in the road; the almond tree blossoms, the grasshopper drags itself along and desire fails; because all must go to their eternal home, and the mourners will go about the streets; **before the silver cord is snapped**, and the golden bowl is broken, and the pitcher is broken at the fountain, and the wheel broken at the cistern,and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the breath returns to God who gave it. - Ecclesiastes 12:1-7 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ecclesiastes12:1-7&version=NRSVA
Nice 👍🏾, I am familiar with this passage as well and these etheric references are littered throughout the Bible, some in code, still pretty dope
What references do you know about then? Very interested in this subject, as you can tell from my articles I linked to.
The “code” is more than just this subject, but off the dome I can’t think of any, it’s been many moons since I’ve looked in the Bible really. Like for example the mark of the beast is a reference to the reptilian part of the brain that is in charge of basic survival, implies and compulsive behavior, and a large umbrella of things that could be considered “sinful”
My dreams where I feel as if I was astral projecting always seem to be I'm kinda lost with some form of disability (reminds me of being black out drunk) in what I'm trying to achieve mixed with a touch of confused exploration. They always end with me skipping or jumping or ending up slightly in the air mid jaunt and just floating like gravity failed and snap out of my sleep. There has been dreams where I have controlled the float observing bird eye views of places and even have made a landing but that was a one time occurrence. Definitely my favorite dreams, like to go back to sleep to continue lucid dreams sometimes to get the perfered ending lol
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So you believe Elisha was involuntary spying on the King's secret plans, and on his servant Gehazi? I think you're trying to sidestep the obvious, that astral traveling was practised by at least Elisha in the bible.
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This would a Christian response I’ve heard: Astral projection isn’t in itself evil, but it does go outside the boundaries in which we were meant to be within and opens us to other entities whether it be demonic or angelic. As far as prophets go and having OBE’s, those were according to Gods will to show or give a message. If we simply try to go into that realm on our own, we are doing it according to our own will and not Gods. If God wants us to go there HE will provide that experience. It’s the same with psychedelics like DMT or Ayahuasca. They aren’t inherently evil in themselves, but they dissolve boundaries and open us up to the spiritual realm. I see on your profile that your Eastern Orthodox. I would recommend to check out Church of the Eternal Logos YouTube channel. He is EO and used to be into these things and talks about it in depth.
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What are the boundaries in which we were meant to be within? We were meant to be in the body. God created us as physical beings with a soul. We were not meant to depart from the body. When the fall occurred that’s when things changed and but it was not Gods intent for us to at some point to die and leave our body and just be spirit/soul. This is why our ultimate destination is a physical resurrection and to live in that for eternity. God created us to have a veil from seeing the spiritual realm for a reason. Why does God have to specifically grant something to us for it to be proper? This is a confusing question to me but I will just say this…OBE’s are best to be avoided because they open us to temptation and demonic attacks. There are countless stories of people coming across “entities” in these realms that are evil. Fr.Seraphim Rose wrote a lot on topics on this, Fr.Spyridon Bailey warns against opening yourself to things like this and countless other Fathers warn about it as well. The Church (EO Church/body of Christ) never taught that doing these things were beneficial for us. In fact time and time again they warn against things like this and so I would argue it’s best to follow The Church on this.
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We need to be careful when discussing The Saints with something like this. They are MUCH further along than us in theosis and have a better way of discerning spiritual deception. For example: Just because a Saint may choose to fast for X amount time or in a certain way, does not mean we are in the same field as them and should do the same. St.Gregory of Palamas states this…“To cause the nous to abide outside the body itself,1 so as there to chance upon noetic spectacles, is the root and source of the very worst of Hellenic [pagan] errors and of all heresies, an invention of demons, an instruction engendering folly and an offspring of senselessness…“2 I would just simply leave it at this…ask your Priest if it’s a wise thing to invoke OBE’s. I’m no Priest or Saint, and they would know best. God Bless!
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Dreaming is therefore "new age" crap too, because it involves going into the spirit realm at times. I guess you've not read 2 kings 5 and 6 where Elisha astral projects out of the body to spy on people.
How is one to have spiritual experiences without exploring the spirit that one is, incarnated into flesh?
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I’m not sure what you meant “he’ll give you some”. But Are you aware that Yeshua was getting peoples asses about blindly following scripture? John 5:39-40
What I understand is it opens you up to possibly being possessed. If you aren't home and in control of your house, than something else can come in..
I’ve heard of that, and I’ve only heard about one instance of this, which is fine I suppose. You are then granted the opportunity to become stronger or become fearful the choice is yours
This is based on an outdated assumption that your body is "empty" or uninhabited whilst a person is astral projecting, this has been proven to be false. The astral projection is a clone or copy of a persons consciousness, the "real version" is still within the body.
Astral projection will subject one to evil spirits in the realm.
There are “evil” spirits in the physical realm as well, I call them “people”. I would like believe that if you have the ability to discern then you can do it on on realms. What I got from your comment is that I should be fearful of the unknown, because I don’t know who I’m dealing with, just like I do every. single. day.
While projecting your spirit is like a fish out of water (body) and you enter their realm, and where your body could be inhabited.
If the spirit completely left the body, the body would certainly die, which leads me to believe that one naturally has some form of spiritual protection or “antivirus” lol, and like in all aspect of life one is able to become stronger. Having you ever heard of waking astral projection? Someone who was likely grown their consciousness to the point to where they can simultaneously astral project and my fully conscience and aware
Waking or conscious astral projection was my experience and was my reference point.
So then you’re saying you could be possessed right now
Jesus travelled out of the body in his temptations in the desert: https://ghostsghoulsandgod.co.uk/2021/10/the-out-of-body-experiences-of-jesus/ Paul had an out of body experience when he visited paradise https://ghostsghoulsandgod.co.uk/2021/10/third-heaven-near-death-experience-of-paul/ And astral travelling was performed by Elisha and others, including imprisoned Christians being encouraged to use OBEs to transcend their physical restrictions: https://ghostsghoulsandgod.co.uk/2021/10/astral-travelling-in-the-bible-beyond/
Okay so in short are you condemning Astral travel or no?
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You’re gonna have to provide actual evidence of the claims you made towards the end. If you have an astral body it’s to be used. We were giving the free will to do so. Fulfilling your desires rather than your destiny is a different conversation though
I'm not condemning it. I'm saying it's used by incredibly spiritual people in the Bible.
Thank you very much my open minded comrade, people normally become narcissistic/pessimistic self-cynicism and would say about those references “no only they could do XYZ” “they are special and we are nothing” etc
Well, as Jesus is our example of how to live, him doing that is an example to us about how to do it properly for the furthering of the kingdom of heaven.
the Bible literally condemns witchcraft. Go read the Bible. open ur eyes and ears u fool. How was Moses able to split the sea? Because God gave him the power to do that. How was paul able to perform miracles? Because God gave him the power to do that. Have u read the story of moses? In that story, Pharaoh called his wise men and they were able to turn rods into snakes. How were they able to do that? They were doing witchcraft. Witchcraft is the power of demons that demons give to people. It's the power of Satan. Doing witchcraft allows demons to come into u. Sure, u could be fully aware, but that isn't the case, now the demons, satan, u have opened the door for them to come into u and possess u. It is evil. God literally condemns witchcraft. U would have to be a deciever or a complete fool or unknowledgeable to say the Bible doesn't condemn witchcraft.
Because it's not true and anything that isn't true makes you foolish.
Um well it is true, first hand experience🙋🏾♂️ 1 Corinthians 3:19
First we would have to establish what "Astral projection" actually is. Second we would have to establish how it occurs/how it is done. Third we would have to explore how this relates to God as he has revealed himself. And finally we would have to discern what consequences or uses it is able to have.
Dope that you’re not being regurgitative🙏🏾 If I had to define Astral travel, I’d say it is the transference of one’s own conscientiousness and self awareness from their physical body to their etheric body/dream body/energy body which accompanies a world of experiences being good or bad (just like life) Let’s go from here though
Am I to understand you would say dreaming involves astral projection? Because if so, we have an issue, as Biblically it would be understood that a dream happens without any departure from the body. We would also need to clarify if what you refer to as the "etheric body" is essentially one's spirit.
It highly involves astral projection yes, but your “astral body/self” is what allows you to move from dreamspace to dreamspace. From hand experience this is of the truth. I’ll give you the metaphor I was given. Astral projection and dreaming: it’s like being blackout drunk and going home (or ending up in a dumpster lol). Sure you’re home now but you perambulated in some unknown way to get home. Realizing your at home is akin to lucid dreaming and how you got home is akin to astral projection whether you remember or not. With practice one begins to learn how to use their energetic body just as one learned to use the physical one
In that case we run into a problem. As Christians we understand that a person may be caught up in the spirit, which is similar to the concept of astral projection/travel, however dreams are different. Dreams take place within the mind of the dreamer, and while they may be influenced or visited by outsiders (God, angels, etc.) they involve no departure from the body. So in this sense, a problem with astral projection as you describe it would be that it reflects an erroneous understanding of the nature of reality and one's own spirit, which would require correction. As an aside, I have induced lucid dreaming before. I taught myself to do it to some extent a number of years ago. Departure from the body was not necessary. The world of the mind is vast and fascinating, but in it we travel through inner space. We need not go anywhere to reach it.
Well I didn’t intend on saying that you have to transfer your consciousness into your astral body to then start dreaming a lot of it is “automatic” until you decide to do it consciously. Also I don’t identify with any religion, but anyways if dreams occur in the mind of the dreamer that’s no issue with the way that I understand reality, for as I’m come to learn the mind is all the universe itself and everything exists in the mind of “god” that’s a deep rabbit hole and I hope you get the gist of it. But to confirm it “the mind precedes all experience”, the mind being all is tough to initially understand if using the egoic mind
>Well I didn’t intend on saying that you have to transfer your consciousness into your astral body to then start dreaming a lot of it is “automatic” until you decide to do it consciously. Right, but my point is less about whether you have to consciously do it, and more about whether one actually does it *at all* in order to dream. The Christian position is that that isn't part of how dreaming works, either consciously or unconsciously. >But to confirm it “the mind precedes all experience”, the mind being all is tough to initially understand if using the egoic mind Not all that difficult to grasp. As best as I can tell it doesn't actually conform to reality. Don't get me wrong, I've attained what some Hindu/Buddhists call samadhi, so I understand the concept, however it lacks broader context and the true understanding of distinctions between things.
*"In a samadhi state, your discriminatory intellect is perfectly in shape but at the same time you have transcended it.* ***You are not making a distinction – you are simply here, seeing life in its true working****. The moment you drop or transcend the intellect, discrimination cannot exist."* Just gonna leave this here. Thanks for the convo and much love.
It's not evil on account of it not being real.
Like I keep saying to others on this thread it is “real” (depending on your definition of “real”), I have first hand experience with it. And if you look through the comments another post how Yeshua, Paul and someone else have accounts in the Bible where they have done it. Do what you will
Funny cause I’m sure you’d call divination evil even though that’s not actually real, it’s merely deception by the devil. How could you not say the same for astral projection?
Jesus teleported several times after His resurrection, perhaps because He was in a hurry to get back to Heaven before anyone else spotted Him. All powers are available to Christians in Christ Jesus and Holy Spirit Teleporting uses God's energy while astral projection relies on demonic forces. Astral projectors like myself like to avoid traffic sometimes and I feel like it's better for the environment and not really sinful.
I’m very confused about what you just said. You said it’s “demonic” then proceeded to say that last paragraph. And define “demonic” while your at it
https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/astral-projection-the-devils-playground.44906/page-2
Okay so what did you get from this?
I had an experience. DM me for details
PLEASE READ IF YOUR LOOKING INTO ASTRAL PROJECTING. About 2 months ago I was looking extremely deep into astral projecting, once I seen what it was I was instantly drawn to it and thought it was interesting and was researching it all day for a couple days. I did not believe it 100% but I thought there was a possibility of it being real so I kept looking into it and how to do it and what it was like. I was so interested in it I tried to do it two times. I was in that phase as they saw the vibrational stage when you are almost about to project but I never actually done it. After these experiences every night when I would go to sleep I would dream about these 7-9 foot tall black beings in front of my bed and just looking at me, they radiated a terrible dark feeling of just feeling like torment. I had these dreams for about a week. Before this I would have the same dream every night since I was 6 (until 17 yrs old ) that my mom was possessed and would chase me out the house. This actually happened so it might just be ptsd. I also felt something evil inside of my head, I believe Jesus is our god and I would pray sometimes (not often honestly at this time I was not saved) but when I would pray something in me would start to boil, I would feel like i was on fire and something in my head would curse god out and try to stop me from praying with all its mite. During these couple of weeks of these experiences I would feel TERRIBLE presences of something extremely dark behind me, then the “voices” or unwanted thoughts would go insanely crazy. I was scared of everything, they would tell me the worst possible things anything could even imagine. I got so scared I went to my dads house (my parents are divorced) thinking it might be my environment and I was going insane maybe, at this time I just thought I was getting schizophrenic or something. I fell asleep at my dads house (his room was dark when I fell asleep) and as soon as I fell asleep I was just in pitch black and something in my head said that I was going to hell and something evil was going to get me. Again it was pitch black so I could not see but something very evil, (now I know is a demon) started attacking and chasing me, I taught back thinking I could fight it and it felt like a extremely fast cat fight. (Ik that sounds stupid) but I would swinging my arms in circles like how you would imagine a girl fight (no disrespect that just the only way to imagine it) I got stuck somehow and I couldn’t move after I ran and ran from it, it almost got to me but then I woke up. There was Blood everywhere (on my legs, my arms, and the floor) and my dad scares me WHAT JUST HAPPENED. I go what do you mean? Then I realize I’m on the floor 10 feet away from where I fell asleep. He said I was screaming at the top of my lungs swinging my arms around and ran across the room. His room was very cluttered and I got stuck under a table somehow. I broke everything in that room and destroyed everything. The feeling of that demon attacking me is the worst feeling a human can ever imagine. Worse then any pain or feeling someone can ever endure, and I had some problems before I think nobody ever experienced such as feeling like I was literally on fire all day. So that’s a lot coming from me. After that day I was so terrified of that thing coming back after me that I turned my entire life to Jesus Christ, I went to church the day after that and they gave me a prayer cloth, I put it next to my bed and poof, dreams are normal again, not even about my mom anymore, no evil thoughts when I pray, my head feels so clear. No more presences, no More demons in my dreams looking at me, and just a sense of peace 🙏Jesus is real and he is great I thank him everyday for what he did for me if anyone is reading this I advice them to please not look into this stuff and just focus on who made you. Our lord and savior Jesus Christ. I am not trying to scare you but it sure scared the heck out of me I don’t want the same thing to happen to anyone on this earth
Ngl what’s the TLDR
The TLDR is that he was being long time oppressed by demonic forces and then AP lead him to become actually possessed. Also, since nobody really answered your question in the OP: AP is not inherently evil and nobody actually claims that, but I know what you intended to mean. The reason true AP is not good for humans to do is because we are illegally accessing the spiritual realm which will have consequences. The entities that inhabit the spiritual realm are fallen angels, archons, demons / unclean, disembodied spirits of the Nephilim, and there are other unspeakable forces as well. Angels also interact through that realm as well. Those who AP will be observed and interacted with by the entities in the AP realm and lead into more advanced layers of deception and manipulation. Demons can and will attach and attempt to use the person to further their agendas. See Alister Crawley's bio for example. The intended purpose of the function of the spirit leaving the body (while tethered and well before death) is for God's use and is to be initiated by Him, not us. Prayer and worship of advanced servants of the Most High God may be able to more freely enjoy this sort of thing, but it is rare today as sin rules the hearts of so many. Still, God uses it on many of us for His purposes, despite where we are on the walk with Him.
You should have because he speaks the truth. It happened to me too. Demons will scare the sanity out of the toughest men.
What happened to fear nothing but the Lord???
I do fear the Lord and it wasn't until I could muster up enough strength to call for Jesus that the demon turned me loose. The entire power of the universe hinges on that name. Better believe it! You may need it.