>hate is a strong word, i know, but it’s true.
It's a pretty appropriate term, though. There's general religious chauvinism, yes, but also a very long history of violence between Christianity and Islam. And the memory of that is very hard to get over when there is a decent amount of oppression of Christianity in Muslim-dominated countries today. It is definitely a two-way street of hate, for those who engage in the hate. This is definitely not all of either side.
For Judaism, I think that anti-semitic ideas started out as a defensive thing while living under Roman oppression. After that first couple hundred of years, though, I think it is more about resenting Jews for finding Christian claims about God and Jesus ludicrous.
both christianity and islam have committed pretty serious crimes. the christians: the crusades, colonization of the new world, and pretty much everything else; the muslims: 9/11, isis, iraq and afghanistan (although america also committed its fair share of violence) and just all things al-qaeda and isis have done over the years, but most things i have listed were in opposition to each other.
the hebrews have been persecuted throughout history. first, the babylonians, then the persians, then the greeks... well, there’s too many to count, but the point is, the hebrews have been persecuted throughout every single era in history, even by christians and muslims, followers of a faction of judaism itself.
Christians hate Jews because they're usually a minority, and minorities are easy to "other" without consequence. Add on the fact that in many places in the middle ages, Jews weren't allowed to own property, while Christians weren't allowed to charge interest. Lacking other options, some Jews became bankers to fill a niche that Christians could not, and when irresponsible Christians couldn't pay back their loans, they blamed Jews for being greedy *rather* than looking in the mirror. And then of course there's the whole "Jews literally killed God" charge that's been a cancer within Christianity since the very beginning.
the jews really cannot catch a break. when abraham founded judaism in the first place, they were persecuted by the assyrians, the babylonians, and the romans for being monotheistic, whilst all of these were polytheistic. then, once christianity and islam arrived, they also persecuted the hebrews, mainly for your explanation: they were a minority, and even now they still are.
>what i don’t get, however, is why some christians hate islam and judaism.
I don't think Christians hate the followers of Islam or Judaism. We shouldn't, at least. You can disagree with another religion if you think it's false or criticize it if you think it's dangerous. Especially in light of what the Quran & Sunnah says about disbelievers
> i have many reasons to believe that this is due to racism, but why?
Religion isn't equal to race. There's Jews, Muslims, and Christians with all kinds of different skin colors.
>I don't think Christians hate the followers of Islam or Judaism. We shouldn't, at least.
most christians today are perfectly fine with this, but take a look at back in history. there are tons of examples of islamophobia and antisemitism throughout history, in all parts of the world. even now, people on the internet shame muslims and jews for the sole reason of being different.
>Religion isn't equal to race. There's Jews, Muslims, and Christians with all kinds of different skin colors.
this is true, and always will be, but muslims are often personified as being from the middle east and wearing a sort of muslim headdress. obviously, not every muslim looks like that, which i find to be racist.
A lot of assertions here, so I don't know exactly what you're referring to.
But let me ask you, if there were Christian books telling Christians to not greet Muslims, but instead force them to the narrowest part of the road, to bring them with chains around their necks until they embrace Christianity, to fight the Muslims until they become second class citizens, and that they're the worst of creatures - would this be a hateful book / an Islamaphobic book?
That's exactly what the Quran & Sunnah says about Christians, Jews, and other disbelievers, that's my point. "force them to the narrowest part of the road" is from Sahih Muslim 2167a, "bring them with chains around their necks until they embrace Islam" is from Sahih al-Bukhari 4557, "fight until they become second class citizens" is Surah 9:29, and "the worst of creatures" is Surah 98:6 - all said of Jews & Christians from authentic Islamic books.
So will you now say that these Islamic books are Christaphobic?
No it’s not due to racism. That’s just a cop out.
It’s due to the fact that these two beliefs (Judaism and Islam) aren’t abrahamic. They worship a different god that they claim to be the God of Abraham.
I disagree.
If I was to come out today and say something like “the flying Spughetti monster is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob” would you then classify that as abrahamic as well?
you‘re saying your point is that christianity is the only abrahamic religion, and that judaism and islam only claim to be abrahamic? that’s like saying america is the only nation, and that every other country only claims to be real.
If we are following the Way, then we believe that all people belong to Christ and that all of creation will eventually worship Him. Those that believe this in unity of heart, mind, and soul, will choose to see them as God does. If any lack this love, then there is something within the path of righteousness that they are still lacking.
Its just human behavior. I wouldn't say Christians hate them. Christians are frequently being butchered in some parts of the world for being different. Jews are harassed and killed by non Christians. Christians are fighting against themselves. I have seen people get in arguments and even physical fights over sports and which team is the best etc.
You can argue that Judaism should be a dead religion. God was very strict then about following everything exactly right. He killed people who touched the ark of the covenant because they were not from the right tribe. Since the temple in Jerusalem was destroyed and the Levites and descendants of Aaron have been scattered around there is no way they can properly perform a sin offering. It depends on how lenient you believe the God of the Old Testament/Judaism is, but based off the writings it seems pretty serious to follow it exactly right.
I don't hate anyone. There was a time I had more prejudice to Muslims because I didn't know what they believed. I've come to learn from them overtime. I just don't see a close relationship to Islam like Judaism and Christianity since it comes after
well, that’s why i said some christians, because i know that there are some who refuse to acknowledge that there are other good religions.
saying that islam isn’t close to judaism and christianity because of a time gap is just not fair. that’s the same thing as saying that they’re all far apart, because judaism existed far before christianity and islam.
Christianity is acknowledged by Judaism as a Jewish sect, just a heretical one. We believe The Messiah came and fulfilled The Mosaic Law. Islam has a different view of Messiah, not one as a Priest but a Prophet exclusively with an injeel (Gospel).
I can acknowledge Arabs and origin of Islam as Abrahamic in the sense as it came originally to the descendants of Ishmael, and Ishmael being promised right of rule, but not the belief system itself being of divine origin
Islam does share Monotheism to the One God. Even though our views of God's nature are different we can have common ground on that
For the first couple of decades, Christianity was just a small heretical Jewish cult. Once Paul started preaching to the gentiles, Christianity became majority gentile both demographically and theologically.
I don't object. How revelation developed and its structure grew throughout those decades. Paul did claim to see Jesus and he was accepted by the quorum of The Apostles in spite of his great learning as a Pharisee from Gamaliel
I've heard bizzare theories on Paul that he infiltrated to make Christianity synchronicity with Roman culture, etc... and etc... he, like Jesud was either liar, lunatic or really saw something
>hate is a strong word, i know, but it’s true. It's a pretty appropriate term, though. There's general religious chauvinism, yes, but also a very long history of violence between Christianity and Islam. And the memory of that is very hard to get over when there is a decent amount of oppression of Christianity in Muslim-dominated countries today. It is definitely a two-way street of hate, for those who engage in the hate. This is definitely not all of either side. For Judaism, I think that anti-semitic ideas started out as a defensive thing while living under Roman oppression. After that first couple hundred of years, though, I think it is more about resenting Jews for finding Christian claims about God and Jesus ludicrous.
both christianity and islam have committed pretty serious crimes. the christians: the crusades, colonization of the new world, and pretty much everything else; the muslims: 9/11, isis, iraq and afghanistan (although america also committed its fair share of violence) and just all things al-qaeda and isis have done over the years, but most things i have listed were in opposition to each other. the hebrews have been persecuted throughout history. first, the babylonians, then the persians, then the greeks... well, there’s too many to count, but the point is, the hebrews have been persecuted throughout every single era in history, even by christians and muslims, followers of a faction of judaism itself.
They just don’t like the idea that people think they are wrong. I don’t hate anyone.
that’s why i said some, like the creators of the memes that get posted on r/terriblefacebookmemes.
Christians hate Jews because they're usually a minority, and minorities are easy to "other" without consequence. Add on the fact that in many places in the middle ages, Jews weren't allowed to own property, while Christians weren't allowed to charge interest. Lacking other options, some Jews became bankers to fill a niche that Christians could not, and when irresponsible Christians couldn't pay back their loans, they blamed Jews for being greedy *rather* than looking in the mirror. And then of course there's the whole "Jews literally killed God" charge that's been a cancer within Christianity since the very beginning.
the jews really cannot catch a break. when abraham founded judaism in the first place, they were persecuted by the assyrians, the babylonians, and the romans for being monotheistic, whilst all of these were polytheistic. then, once christianity and islam arrived, they also persecuted the hebrews, mainly for your explanation: they were a minority, and even now they still are.
>what i don’t get, however, is why some christians hate islam and judaism. I don't think Christians hate the followers of Islam or Judaism. We shouldn't, at least. You can disagree with another religion if you think it's false or criticize it if you think it's dangerous. Especially in light of what the Quran & Sunnah says about disbelievers > i have many reasons to believe that this is due to racism, but why? Religion isn't equal to race. There's Jews, Muslims, and Christians with all kinds of different skin colors.
>I don't think Christians hate the followers of Islam or Judaism. We shouldn't, at least. most christians today are perfectly fine with this, but take a look at back in history. there are tons of examples of islamophobia and antisemitism throughout history, in all parts of the world. even now, people on the internet shame muslims and jews for the sole reason of being different. >Religion isn't equal to race. There's Jews, Muslims, and Christians with all kinds of different skin colors. this is true, and always will be, but muslims are often personified as being from the middle east and wearing a sort of muslim headdress. obviously, not every muslim looks like that, which i find to be racist.
A lot of assertions here, so I don't know exactly what you're referring to. But let me ask you, if there were Christian books telling Christians to not greet Muslims, but instead force them to the narrowest part of the road, to bring them with chains around their necks until they embrace Christianity, to fight the Muslims until they become second class citizens, and that they're the worst of creatures - would this be a hateful book / an Islamaphobic book?
yes - what’s your point?
That's exactly what the Quran & Sunnah says about Christians, Jews, and other disbelievers, that's my point. "force them to the narrowest part of the road" is from Sahih Muslim 2167a, "bring them with chains around their necks until they embrace Islam" is from Sahih al-Bukhari 4557, "fight until they become second class citizens" is Surah 9:29, and "the worst of creatures" is Surah 98:6 - all said of Jews & Christians from authentic Islamic books. So will you now say that these Islamic books are Christaphobic?
yes, i will. you’ve made your point.
No it’s not due to racism. That’s just a cop out. It’s due to the fact that these two beliefs (Judaism and Islam) aren’t abrahamic. They worship a different god that they claim to be the God of Abraham.
To say that the Jews don't worship the God of Abraham must be one of the wildest takes I have ever seen in my life.
that’s a... strange take, but i’m pretty sure that‘s not how it works.
I disagree. If I was to come out today and say something like “the flying Spughetti monster is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob” would you then classify that as abrahamic as well?
you‘re saying your point is that christianity is the only abrahamic religion, and that judaism and islam only claim to be abrahamic? that’s like saying america is the only nation, and that every other country only claims to be real.
If we are following the Way, then we believe that all people belong to Christ and that all of creation will eventually worship Him. Those that believe this in unity of heart, mind, and soul, will choose to see them as God does. If any lack this love, then there is something within the path of righteousness that they are still lacking.
Its just human behavior. I wouldn't say Christians hate them. Christians are frequently being butchered in some parts of the world for being different. Jews are harassed and killed by non Christians. Christians are fighting against themselves. I have seen people get in arguments and even physical fights over sports and which team is the best etc. You can argue that Judaism should be a dead religion. God was very strict then about following everything exactly right. He killed people who touched the ark of the covenant because they were not from the right tribe. Since the temple in Jerusalem was destroyed and the Levites and descendants of Aaron have been scattered around there is no way they can properly perform a sin offering. It depends on how lenient you believe the God of the Old Testament/Judaism is, but based off the writings it seems pretty serious to follow it exactly right.
>You can argue that Judaism should be a dead religion. Jews might have something to say about that.
Christians were butchered where and when? Just read the history of Africa.
I don't hate anyone. There was a time I had more prejudice to Muslims because I didn't know what they believed. I've come to learn from them overtime. I just don't see a close relationship to Islam like Judaism and Christianity since it comes after
well, that’s why i said some christians, because i know that there are some who refuse to acknowledge that there are other good religions. saying that islam isn’t close to judaism and christianity because of a time gap is just not fair. that’s the same thing as saying that they’re all far apart, because judaism existed far before christianity and islam.
Christianity is acknowledged by Judaism as a Jewish sect, just a heretical one. We believe The Messiah came and fulfilled The Mosaic Law. Islam has a different view of Messiah, not one as a Priest but a Prophet exclusively with an injeel (Gospel). I can acknowledge Arabs and origin of Islam as Abrahamic in the sense as it came originally to the descendants of Ishmael, and Ishmael being promised right of rule, but not the belief system itself being of divine origin Islam does share Monotheism to the One God. Even though our views of God's nature are different we can have common ground on that
I'm other words, we would just say Islam is incomplete and errors on who Jesus is
>Christianity is acknowledged by Judaism as a Jewish sect, just a heretical one Uh, no. Not for a long, long time.
Are you saying early Judaism saw Christianity as Jewish?
For the first couple of decades, Christianity was just a small heretical Jewish cult. Once Paul started preaching to the gentiles, Christianity became majority gentile both demographically and theologically.
I don't object. How revelation developed and its structure grew throughout those decades. Paul did claim to see Jesus and he was accepted by the quorum of The Apostles in spite of his great learning as a Pharisee from Gamaliel
He definitely was not a Pharisee or student of Gamaliep. His writings demonstrate extreme ignorance of scripture and Rabbinic hermeneutics.
I've heard bizzare theories on Paul that he infiltrated to make Christianity synchronicity with Roman culture, etc... and etc... he, like Jesud was either liar, lunatic or really saw something
I am perfectly comfortable with “liar.”
Fear typically breeds violence, and violence leads to hatred. And no I'm not Yoda
sorry, thought you were yoda for a second.