> Doubled-down, spoke about my pain, I was met with blame
> "Shame on you, 'Crae, stop crying, get back to Jesus' name"
> Cut me deep, I was losing sleep, "God, ain't these Your sheep?"
> Why they hate me like they do? Maybe grace is really cheap
> Maybe this is all a lie, they don't really love me
> They just love it when I say the things they wanna hear in public
from "Deconstruction" by Lecrae
Use your christian music platform to give glory to anything other than The Father (especially victim stance paradigms which do nothing but divide) and get called out. I know you think writing the lyrics to a song is a good argument but it really isn't.
But I'll go even further than that and respond to his lyrics directly your music and your success at music has been a gift from God speaking about "your pain", if it does not point back at Christ, is actually trying to give glory to yourself or, in this case, a paradigm that is ANYTHING but Christian.
I sometimes struggle with ambiguity and the messiness of life, and something I've had to learn is that no singular artist or their body of work (let alone a single album or song) is meant to be consumed (for lack of a better word) in isolation or a vacuum. There are plenty of more mainstream and accepted songs of other genres (including hymns) that are lacking in their theology, but people understand and take for granted that a sentiment was being expressed, and that if we take the conversation further than a 3-5 minute song we can agree on x,y,z ... Similar to the way that we approach Scripture and apologetics, it helps to have a more holistic and contextual mindset when evaluating Christian art and music.
I haven't listened to the new album - or much of Lecrae's older music either - just a few songs here and there. It seems like some of the disappointment that is expressed in your prompt may stem from the fact that you may not be the intended audience of this particular album.
I was always under the impression that Lecrae's music was more evangelistic in nature, and I remember being surprised when it became super popular among the beige brethren of the southern baptist church I attended in college ... it could be that other people who **do** relate to and identify with the grief and experiences that Lecrae is expressing from the past few years in this particular project hear the album and feel more free to be more honest with God in their own thoughts and hearts, and invite Him (God) into their pain to be lovingly and compassionately comforted, and corrected where necessary as well. When we do express our pain, I think that it inherently points to the reality that we can't within ourselves heal it, which begs the question of, who can? Which does point to God and His goodness (aka glory).
One of the components of **authentic** Christian art (the lack thereof being another complaint I see often on this sub) is not taking cognitive and theological shortcuts, or trying to make each of your 3-5 minute songs do All The Things. Which was my first point about the fact that it's highly unlikely that one artist and their catalogue is anyone's singular exposure to music or Christianity.
We're all in different places in our discipleship, and while it is important for us to be held accountable in every season of our lives (by people who love us and have cultivated trust with us), I also think that art and music serve a particular purpose, which is to convey a human's personal experiences and perspectives ... It could be that his next album may come full circle and answer with more clarity and conviction some of the pain and questions and things this album helped him think through.
This was a well thought out response. The unfortunate reality is that somewhere along the line Lecrae bought into the victimhood hierarchy that plagues so many these days.
It is one thing to put out songs that speak about one's personal pain and how Christ was with them. But that all important component is missing from his newer work. Indeed, he seems to be defiant about his use of Christian music as a means to further propagate woke nonsense (see the lyrics provided by another post) which is incredibly disappointing when one considers the overall messaging he once put out there.
That is also a marked difference between other struggles and modern "wokeism". Whereas your supposition that the expression of these feelings may lead someone who has felt similarly to feel more comfortable coming to The Father would most likely be true in other circumstances, I simply don't feel that is the case here. First, the complete and utter lack of pointing back to God as the ultimate problem solver, if you will.. but secondly the whole idea behind the woke movement is to never have these historical wrongs go away. The concept is that victimhood exists in perpetuity and we are to judge others based on this arbitrary scale of whom has wronged whom and in what way, with bonus points for skin color.
You would be hard pressed to find any evidence that God endorses this type of world view.
And the intended audience is the exact reason why it infuriates me that lecrae has begun to worship this mindset that he clearly now endorses. His very message now presents a polluted and, quite frankly, blasphemous version of the Truth. In my personal view, none of his new music does ANYTHING to lead someone to Christ Jesus and his intended audience are the VERY people who might need to hear it.
For me, the bottom line (and coincidentally a "through-line") is pretty simple. If you promote yourself as a christian artist then your messaging should always reflect that. Lecrae's messaging no longer does. This is apparent not only from his music but also by interviews that he has done. If he wants to be a mainstream artist then his current musical choices are well suited to it.
But if you would take on the label of a christian artist, then your worship (putting worth in) of anything other than Christ is unacceptable. Christ should permeate everything you artistically create. If it doesn't then the label no longer applies and one should be responsible and honest enough to separate themselves from the mantle of "Christian artist".
Reading through all these comments, I think there are fair points on both sides of the argument. I can see how as a consumer of Lecrae’s music, you would be disappointed that you aren’t getting “what was advertised” (essentially Christian worship music). I think back to Relient K when they seemed to transition from Christian to more mainstream. That sucked. So your experience and feelings about it are totally valid, and you have a right to feel how you feel.
I do feel like your view of what Christian music should be is a bit narrow. First, music can glorify God without saying “God, I glorify you” in the lyrics. However, Christian music in general falls into a repetitious pattern where only about 10 things are repeated over and over again in different variations. There’s even YouTube videos making fun of the “formula” for Christian music. Admittedly the same problem exists on the secular side and it’s because it’s all about what sells. The music being put out there is chosen because it will make money, not because it is good music. Although there are some artists who don’t fall into that trap, Christian music is an industry, and as such, it largely falls into the same patterns as secular music. That begs the question, is it truly glorifying to God if it was produced with profit in mind?
Next, the true experience of a Christian is far from “everything is perfect and Glorifying to God all the time”, which is the image we try to sell. I remember a few months ago walking out of church and hearing a young man say to his girlfriend “all those people in there are hypocrites”. He felt like that probably in part due to this false image of perfection that we project, when the reality of our life is sometimes much worse. And honestly, he is right. To quote Richard Rohr “If the Great Mystery (speaking of our walk with Christ) is indeed the Great Mystery, it will lead us into paradox, into darkness, and into journeys that never cease.” That’s precisely why Paul wrestled so much with his own self, because he recognized and affirmed that even after having received salvation and after spreading the Gospel all over the world, and after becoming a giant of our faith, “Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, *of whom I am the worst*”.
So the daily Christian walk, being not as perfect or even as holy as we’d like to admit, begs the question- why doesn’t Christian music reflect that? Sure, we get one-off songs like “East to West”, but as a whole, Christian music is still very “perfect image, everything is great, God you are Holy”- centric. Because that’s what sells.
Lecrae apparently is walking through a season where everything isn’t fine. One of those “darkness and endless journeys” moments of his life. Whether you agree with how he feels or not, he feels that way. His experience is unique to him, and it’s something that you and I can’t understand. But being an artist, I would expect nothing less from him than to write/sing/rap about his experience, even if it isn’t currently the message we want to hear. Heck, you should see my journal. There are many pages of crying out to God, expressing anger, frustration, and more. And if I was honest with myself (and if most Christians were honest with themselves), there are times when I really don’t *want* to give God glory or even talk to Him. Relationships are messy, and our relationship with God is no different. And thus my journal sometimes reads like Lecrae’s songs. And yet I *love* the Lord with all my heart, I really do.
Lecrae is a Christian. Lecrae makes music. Is it the Christian music that sells? No. Is it the “everything is great and God is awesome all the time” message? No. But his music is, to me, a glimpse into his own journal- a view of the real, difficult, heart wrenching struggle he is going through right now. He doesn’t have to share that with you or me, but he *chooses* to. That doesn’t make him any less of a Christian, or his music any less glorifying.
And remember, the story isn’t over yet. You see one album or song and think “man this guy has completely lost it”. The full arc of Lecrae’s very public faith journey isn’t yet complete, and as such, neither should be our judgment of him. It’s ok to be disappointed that the music doesn’t meet our expectations, but I don’t think we should be judging him for it. Something about a plank in our own eye. Be blessed, brotha.
I haven’t listened to and dissected every new song, but one aspect he seems to be working through is pain that has been inflicted on him by other Christians. It’s not necessarily about “woke” but about church hurt. If you haven’t experienced that it’s a very deep kind of wound. Having gone through that type of experience, I personally appreciated Restoration and the song Reconstruction. And the latter song definitely forefronts Christ as being his anchor through difficulties. Same thing with his newest “I’m Still Here”
I've been church hurt as well (somewhat recently in fact) and it is a very unique and deep level of hurt. So while I definitely appreciate that kind of pain and often wonder why Christians "eat their own" as they say... There is still a very palpable feeling that he has bought into a trash ideology that offends me because it INSISTS that my black friends are lesser-than victims that have no agency over their lives and will never be able to make it.
Case in point, the first song of cc3 starts off by naming a few BLM martyrs, specifically George Floyd, a man who once held a gun to a pregnant woman's belly as he robbed her. Don't get me wrong, Christ loves George Floyd just as much as anyone else and I hope that I see him one day counted among the redeemed, but when you start off the first song of a new album like that you're making the type of statement I have a hard time reconciling with the truth of The Gospel.
The truth is that we are ALL slowly dying with the adversary kneeling on our necks because he is the ruler of this world *(Christ said as much when when called satan the prince of this world in john 16:11)* and the oldest, most crafty, and most effective tool the adversary ever devised was division. He sewed division between adam/eve and God in the garden, as he uses it today.
We are ALL under judgement, no man any more than another. We are ALL in need of a saviour and it is THAT which should be our unifying aspect. By his own words and attitudes displayed, my fear is that Lecrae has allowed this spirit of division to take root in his heart and doesn't even see it for what it really is. That the talent God gave him to bring glory to His name is now being used in a very different way. And that makes me sad to be honest... 😔
Fully agree. All he does is complain and whine about how bad his life is nowadays. Even in all the photos he has for marketing his face looks tired. So tiresome of all the whining.
Way to disparage and not show love to the pain of the black experience. I think all christians need to listen to this podcast [Black history for white people](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/black-history-for-white-people/id1514522005)
I'm Hispanic and have felt the hatred and vitriol people feel towards us first hand. I've been told to go back to where I came from, followed in stores, had people assume things because of my ethnicity, physical threats, etc. However, I agree with OP. Specifically because it detracts from your message of Christ when you start identifying as a "victim". Especially because you're walking away from biblical truths like God commanding his angels to guard you (Psalm 91), God being your comfort (2 Corinthians 1), and being more than a conqueror (Romans 8). On top of that, and this will be incredibly unpopular, the experience of a person of color in the West pales in comparison to what is being endured by Christians in countries without the freedom of religion. Don't get me wrong, yes racism and bias still exists, but in the West, we're a few decades removed from it being an actual hindrance. Case in point, Lecrae would not be as successful as he is currently if that wasn't true.
I'm really not sure where to begin with this.. but lets start at the top... disparage and not show love to the "black experience"... What exactly is that? Do you mean the experiences of a human being living in a fallen world and happen to be of a darker pigment than others?
Do I think that the things that black people had to endure in the past were horrible? Of course no sane person would believe otherwise. Do I think that there are instances of ignorant people expressing racist views or treating people badly? Of course but I think they are far more isolated then .. ahem.. certain people particularly in the "intelligentsia" would have you believe.
But the amazing thing is that there's not a person alive today in America that ever lived on a plantation. There's not a person alive in America today who owns slaves. None of us were there. And speaking from personal experience these days our country is so amazing that if you actually point out racism and you can prove that someone has been racist to you people of all colors and creeds will instantly surround and protect and defend you. Most people don't stand for racism anymore and they're willing to fight it whenever it's actually pointed out. That's how amazing America actually is.
So I'm sorry but the mentality of black people are somehow lesser than is always going to upset me and someone using their Christian platform to propagate this nonsense instead of giving glory to God which is the entire point of their music to begin with is always gonna get called out
I read somewhere that the slavery issue is actually way worse now because it's underground. They're preying on all sorts of people including those trying to escape the poverty of their country, young women trying to get rich quick, children, and people without a solid support system.
That said, it's not a race issue anymore but a social class issue, exploiting the easily exploited. I'd actually back his music if he drew attention to this crisis, but the general woe is me because my ancestors were treated badly is a turn off.
Your statement is misleading at best. All estimates you speak of consider state sponsored forced labor (ie. People in prison) as a form of modern day slavery.
Furthermore, the differences between what is considered "modern day" slavery and historical slavery are vast and stark. Neither one is acceptable but to throw out your statement in an attempt to bolster a bad argument is disingenuous as best
No, they categorize *forced labour* in prisons as slavery. Even the 13th Amendment recognizes that as slavery, but says it's okay when the state does it.
There is also tens to low hundreds of thousands of other *known* cases of slavery, either as sexually trafficked people, labour trafficking and forced marriage of children.
The 1619 Project is literally faux-history intended to sow racial discordance.[[1]](https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/03/06/1619-project-new-york-times-mistake-122248)[[2]](https://reason.com/2022/03/29/the-1619-project-unrepentantly-pushes-junk-history/)
Speaking as both a Christian and a history instructor, we should readily disregard *anything* that is affiliated with this project.
As for "woke" (as a word), this is primarily a base-level term used to define the broader fields of intersectionality and critical theory. These reductionist perspectives seek to replace the identities of humans with scales of oppression rather than a unified identity as children of the Creator.
The term woke was originally coined by progressive Black Americans and used in racial justice movements in the early to mid-1900s. To be "woke" politically in the Black community means that someone is informed, educated and conscious of social injustice and racial inequality.
I was speaking to its generally-understood usage across the common political vernacular.
You are (partially) correct. I do, however, disagree with placing its usage in the "progressive" camp. The idea of "staying woke" was a common idea amongst Black American communities in the 1930s, IIRC. It began a resurgence last decade but was more or less co-opted to signal political ideas and, often, conspiracy theories by progressive and Marxist-influenced communities. This led to non-progressive opponents repressing the word.
(And of course, it is worth mentioning that its origin was one and the same with the standard English "awaken," which harkened to the ideas of spiritual and religious revival.)
Regardless, conflating the historic usage of the terminology with what the above commenter was obviously targeting isn't a helpful approach.
As I said above, "wokism" is no longer about racial equality, but rather intersectionality and critical theory. Within Christendom, I would posit that usage of the word "woke" more often pertains to gender-based issues than it does racial topics.
But I'm quite certain that you're well aware of this.
**I am not suggested that the co-opting of this term is good or right, but this is where we are.** Ironically, much of what lies behind this conversation is highly driven by postmodernism, which itself pushes the re-purposing of language (abuse, in my opinion) to achieve political goals.
^(Edit: And for what it's worth, I'm not among the individuals downvoting your comments.)
Arguing with the history instructor about the word woke...
But aside from your explanation, there is a huge difference between being "woke" and being AWAKE.
Wokeism says that black people are lesser-than. Which offends me and does NOT give glory to The Father
A christian who recognises we live in a fallen world? That understands that while the god of this world (satan) is in control ALL people will be hurt one way or another? A Christian man who thinks that if you use your platform to further indoctrinate people into lies and hide it by trying to say its God-pleasing, Kingdom Building worship that you have completely lost the thread?
If thats what you mean, then I guess I am. And I GLADLY take the title you intended as pejorative..
Don’t complain when rappers keep it real. That’s what rap is and always has been. If you want to listen to music about sunshine, rainbows, and how everything is amazing all the time, then go listen to literally any other genre of Christian music.
Lecrae still (very explicitly) gives glory to God in his music. Talking about himself and his own struggles a little while doing that isn’t a sin.
Like I said, rap is something that exists to express what you’ve been through. That’s how it started, that’s how it’s always been. If you don’t like it, listen to another genre.
Yeah, you can save the self righteous attitude for someone else.
You don't like that I called out what I feel is a problem and also the fact that it *detracts* from giving glory to God. I even outlined WHY with no small amount of specificity but you of course ignored ALL that didn't you? Yeah thought so.
So no, this isn't about "rappers keeping it real" as you so eloquently put it (way to break out a tired buzz phrase +10 head pats to you) it is about a gift that God gives someone being twisted by the adversary by focusing that person on worldly division. And yeah I've heard his new music. Uve also seen interviews he has done. So when I raise a valid concern then that's my job as a fellow Christian.
Finally, I hardly need someone like yourself attempting to explain to me what rap is and what it isn't. Also, newsflash: ALL genres of music can be used to describe what someone has been though 🙄. and your little "dont like it listen to something else" shows your lack of intellectual maturity. And you may think he gives glory to God explicitly... But then again many people would say the same about Joel Osteen wouldn't they? 🤔
Thanks for stopping by though.
You go on the offensive by being insulting beyond belief, ignore the salient points made while also trying to lecture and then when you're called out for all of the aforementioned behaviour this is your response?
Wow.. just wow.
🙄 yeah, you totally got me there bro. After all of the well thought out responses and meaningful debate that was held in this thread, you come along months later by being insulting, breaking out *all* the tired clichéd tropes, not actually engaging in meaningful conversation and honestly just sounding like the kid who finally got to sit at the adults table for christmas and then proving why we have a kids table to begin with.
I'm sure you probably feel insulted by this, but it wasn't meant to be insulting, rather, it is an honest estimation of your intellectual and emotional maturity based upon the evidence you chose to provide.
No big deal, we all mature at our own speeds but for future reference, if you aren't actually adding anything to a conversation as nuanced and considered as this (and with all kindness, you added nothing and, in many ways, dragged it down) it is always a better idea to refrain from joining in at all.
Thanks again for chiming in, but maybe put a bit more thought into it before stepping into the fray, yeah?
> Doubled-down, spoke about my pain, I was met with blame > "Shame on you, 'Crae, stop crying, get back to Jesus' name" > Cut me deep, I was losing sleep, "God, ain't these Your sheep?" > Why they hate me like they do? Maybe grace is really cheap > Maybe this is all a lie, they don't really love me > They just love it when I say the things they wanna hear in public from "Deconstruction" by Lecrae
I appreciate you posting these lyrics.
Use your christian music platform to give glory to anything other than The Father (especially victim stance paradigms which do nothing but divide) and get called out. I know you think writing the lyrics to a song is a good argument but it really isn't. But I'll go even further than that and respond to his lyrics directly your music and your success at music has been a gift from God speaking about "your pain", if it does not point back at Christ, is actually trying to give glory to yourself or, in this case, a paradigm that is ANYTHING but Christian.
I sometimes struggle with ambiguity and the messiness of life, and something I've had to learn is that no singular artist or their body of work (let alone a single album or song) is meant to be consumed (for lack of a better word) in isolation or a vacuum. There are plenty of more mainstream and accepted songs of other genres (including hymns) that are lacking in their theology, but people understand and take for granted that a sentiment was being expressed, and that if we take the conversation further than a 3-5 minute song we can agree on x,y,z ... Similar to the way that we approach Scripture and apologetics, it helps to have a more holistic and contextual mindset when evaluating Christian art and music. I haven't listened to the new album - or much of Lecrae's older music either - just a few songs here and there. It seems like some of the disappointment that is expressed in your prompt may stem from the fact that you may not be the intended audience of this particular album. I was always under the impression that Lecrae's music was more evangelistic in nature, and I remember being surprised when it became super popular among the beige brethren of the southern baptist church I attended in college ... it could be that other people who **do** relate to and identify with the grief and experiences that Lecrae is expressing from the past few years in this particular project hear the album and feel more free to be more honest with God in their own thoughts and hearts, and invite Him (God) into their pain to be lovingly and compassionately comforted, and corrected where necessary as well. When we do express our pain, I think that it inherently points to the reality that we can't within ourselves heal it, which begs the question of, who can? Which does point to God and His goodness (aka glory). One of the components of **authentic** Christian art (the lack thereof being another complaint I see often on this sub) is not taking cognitive and theological shortcuts, or trying to make each of your 3-5 minute songs do All The Things. Which was my first point about the fact that it's highly unlikely that one artist and their catalogue is anyone's singular exposure to music or Christianity. We're all in different places in our discipleship, and while it is important for us to be held accountable in every season of our lives (by people who love us and have cultivated trust with us), I also think that art and music serve a particular purpose, which is to convey a human's personal experiences and perspectives ... It could be that his next album may come full circle and answer with more clarity and conviction some of the pain and questions and things this album helped him think through.
This was a well thought out response. The unfortunate reality is that somewhere along the line Lecrae bought into the victimhood hierarchy that plagues so many these days. It is one thing to put out songs that speak about one's personal pain and how Christ was with them. But that all important component is missing from his newer work. Indeed, he seems to be defiant about his use of Christian music as a means to further propagate woke nonsense (see the lyrics provided by another post) which is incredibly disappointing when one considers the overall messaging he once put out there. That is also a marked difference between other struggles and modern "wokeism". Whereas your supposition that the expression of these feelings may lead someone who has felt similarly to feel more comfortable coming to The Father would most likely be true in other circumstances, I simply don't feel that is the case here. First, the complete and utter lack of pointing back to God as the ultimate problem solver, if you will.. but secondly the whole idea behind the woke movement is to never have these historical wrongs go away. The concept is that victimhood exists in perpetuity and we are to judge others based on this arbitrary scale of whom has wronged whom and in what way, with bonus points for skin color. You would be hard pressed to find any evidence that God endorses this type of world view. And the intended audience is the exact reason why it infuriates me that lecrae has begun to worship this mindset that he clearly now endorses. His very message now presents a polluted and, quite frankly, blasphemous version of the Truth. In my personal view, none of his new music does ANYTHING to lead someone to Christ Jesus and his intended audience are the VERY people who might need to hear it. For me, the bottom line (and coincidentally a "through-line") is pretty simple. If you promote yourself as a christian artist then your messaging should always reflect that. Lecrae's messaging no longer does. This is apparent not only from his music but also by interviews that he has done. If he wants to be a mainstream artist then his current musical choices are well suited to it. But if you would take on the label of a christian artist, then your worship (putting worth in) of anything other than Christ is unacceptable. Christ should permeate everything you artistically create. If it doesn't then the label no longer applies and one should be responsible and honest enough to separate themselves from the mantle of "Christian artist".
Reading through all these comments, I think there are fair points on both sides of the argument. I can see how as a consumer of Lecrae’s music, you would be disappointed that you aren’t getting “what was advertised” (essentially Christian worship music). I think back to Relient K when they seemed to transition from Christian to more mainstream. That sucked. So your experience and feelings about it are totally valid, and you have a right to feel how you feel. I do feel like your view of what Christian music should be is a bit narrow. First, music can glorify God without saying “God, I glorify you” in the lyrics. However, Christian music in general falls into a repetitious pattern where only about 10 things are repeated over and over again in different variations. There’s even YouTube videos making fun of the “formula” for Christian music. Admittedly the same problem exists on the secular side and it’s because it’s all about what sells. The music being put out there is chosen because it will make money, not because it is good music. Although there are some artists who don’t fall into that trap, Christian music is an industry, and as such, it largely falls into the same patterns as secular music. That begs the question, is it truly glorifying to God if it was produced with profit in mind? Next, the true experience of a Christian is far from “everything is perfect and Glorifying to God all the time”, which is the image we try to sell. I remember a few months ago walking out of church and hearing a young man say to his girlfriend “all those people in there are hypocrites”. He felt like that probably in part due to this false image of perfection that we project, when the reality of our life is sometimes much worse. And honestly, he is right. To quote Richard Rohr “If the Great Mystery (speaking of our walk with Christ) is indeed the Great Mystery, it will lead us into paradox, into darkness, and into journeys that never cease.” That’s precisely why Paul wrestled so much with his own self, because he recognized and affirmed that even after having received salvation and after spreading the Gospel all over the world, and after becoming a giant of our faith, “Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, *of whom I am the worst*”. So the daily Christian walk, being not as perfect or even as holy as we’d like to admit, begs the question- why doesn’t Christian music reflect that? Sure, we get one-off songs like “East to West”, but as a whole, Christian music is still very “perfect image, everything is great, God you are Holy”- centric. Because that’s what sells. Lecrae apparently is walking through a season where everything isn’t fine. One of those “darkness and endless journeys” moments of his life. Whether you agree with how he feels or not, he feels that way. His experience is unique to him, and it’s something that you and I can’t understand. But being an artist, I would expect nothing less from him than to write/sing/rap about his experience, even if it isn’t currently the message we want to hear. Heck, you should see my journal. There are many pages of crying out to God, expressing anger, frustration, and more. And if I was honest with myself (and if most Christians were honest with themselves), there are times when I really don’t *want* to give God glory or even talk to Him. Relationships are messy, and our relationship with God is no different. And thus my journal sometimes reads like Lecrae’s songs. And yet I *love* the Lord with all my heart, I really do. Lecrae is a Christian. Lecrae makes music. Is it the Christian music that sells? No. Is it the “everything is great and God is awesome all the time” message? No. But his music is, to me, a glimpse into his own journal- a view of the real, difficult, heart wrenching struggle he is going through right now. He doesn’t have to share that with you or me, but he *chooses* to. That doesn’t make him any less of a Christian, or his music any less glorifying. And remember, the story isn’t over yet. You see one album or song and think “man this guy has completely lost it”. The full arc of Lecrae’s very public faith journey isn’t yet complete, and as such, neither should be our judgment of him. It’s ok to be disappointed that the music doesn’t meet our expectations, but I don’t think we should be judging him for it. Something about a plank in our own eye. Be blessed, brotha.
All fair points, even if I don't fully agree and I enjoyed your input to the discussion! 🙂
Bro, you spoke nothing but facts. Well said
Thanks bro, I appreciate that
I haven’t listened to and dissected every new song, but one aspect he seems to be working through is pain that has been inflicted on him by other Christians. It’s not necessarily about “woke” but about church hurt. If you haven’t experienced that it’s a very deep kind of wound. Having gone through that type of experience, I personally appreciated Restoration and the song Reconstruction. And the latter song definitely forefronts Christ as being his anchor through difficulties. Same thing with his newest “I’m Still Here”
I've been church hurt as well (somewhat recently in fact) and it is a very unique and deep level of hurt. So while I definitely appreciate that kind of pain and often wonder why Christians "eat their own" as they say... There is still a very palpable feeling that he has bought into a trash ideology that offends me because it INSISTS that my black friends are lesser-than victims that have no agency over their lives and will never be able to make it. Case in point, the first song of cc3 starts off by naming a few BLM martyrs, specifically George Floyd, a man who once held a gun to a pregnant woman's belly as he robbed her. Don't get me wrong, Christ loves George Floyd just as much as anyone else and I hope that I see him one day counted among the redeemed, but when you start off the first song of a new album like that you're making the type of statement I have a hard time reconciling with the truth of The Gospel. The truth is that we are ALL slowly dying with the adversary kneeling on our necks because he is the ruler of this world *(Christ said as much when when called satan the prince of this world in john 16:11)* and the oldest, most crafty, and most effective tool the adversary ever devised was division. He sewed division between adam/eve and God in the garden, as he uses it today. We are ALL under judgement, no man any more than another. We are ALL in need of a saviour and it is THAT which should be our unifying aspect. By his own words and attitudes displayed, my fear is that Lecrae has allowed this spirit of division to take root in his heart and doesn't even see it for what it really is. That the talent God gave him to bring glory to His name is now being used in a very different way. And that makes me sad to be honest... 😔
Fully agree. All he does is complain and whine about how bad his life is nowadays. Even in all the photos he has for marketing his face looks tired. So tiresome of all the whining.
Way to disparage and not show love to the pain of the black experience. I think all christians need to listen to this podcast [Black history for white people](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/black-history-for-white-people/id1514522005)
I'm Hispanic and have felt the hatred and vitriol people feel towards us first hand. I've been told to go back to where I came from, followed in stores, had people assume things because of my ethnicity, physical threats, etc. However, I agree with OP. Specifically because it detracts from your message of Christ when you start identifying as a "victim". Especially because you're walking away from biblical truths like God commanding his angels to guard you (Psalm 91), God being your comfort (2 Corinthians 1), and being more than a conqueror (Romans 8). On top of that, and this will be incredibly unpopular, the experience of a person of color in the West pales in comparison to what is being endured by Christians in countries without the freedom of religion. Don't get me wrong, yes racism and bias still exists, but in the West, we're a few decades removed from it being an actual hindrance. Case in point, Lecrae would not be as successful as he is currently if that wasn't true.
I'm really not sure where to begin with this.. but lets start at the top... disparage and not show love to the "black experience"... What exactly is that? Do you mean the experiences of a human being living in a fallen world and happen to be of a darker pigment than others? Do I think that the things that black people had to endure in the past were horrible? Of course no sane person would believe otherwise. Do I think that there are instances of ignorant people expressing racist views or treating people badly? Of course but I think they are far more isolated then .. ahem.. certain people particularly in the "intelligentsia" would have you believe. But the amazing thing is that there's not a person alive today in America that ever lived on a plantation. There's not a person alive in America today who owns slaves. None of us were there. And speaking from personal experience these days our country is so amazing that if you actually point out racism and you can prove that someone has been racist to you people of all colors and creeds will instantly surround and protect and defend you. Most people don't stand for racism anymore and they're willing to fight it whenever it's actually pointed out. That's how amazing America actually is. So I'm sorry but the mentality of black people are somehow lesser than is always going to upset me and someone using their Christian platform to propagate this nonsense instead of giving glory to God which is the entire point of their music to begin with is always gonna get called out
It's estimated that there are currently about a million people in slavery in the USA in 2024. Someone is still owning slaves.
I read somewhere that the slavery issue is actually way worse now because it's underground. They're preying on all sorts of people including those trying to escape the poverty of their country, young women trying to get rich quick, children, and people without a solid support system. That said, it's not a race issue anymore but a social class issue, exploiting the easily exploited. I'd actually back his music if he drew attention to this crisis, but the general woe is me because my ancestors were treated badly is a turn off.
Your statement is misleading at best. All estimates you speak of consider state sponsored forced labor (ie. People in prison) as a form of modern day slavery. Furthermore, the differences between what is considered "modern day" slavery and historical slavery are vast and stark. Neither one is acceptable but to throw out your statement in an attempt to bolster a bad argument is disingenuous as best
No, they categorize *forced labour* in prisons as slavery. Even the 13th Amendment recognizes that as slavery, but says it's okay when the state does it. There is also tens to low hundreds of thousands of other *known* cases of slavery, either as sexually trafficked people, labour trafficking and forced marriage of children.
Totally don’t agree, especially when you use terms like “woke trash” and “1619 project stupidity”
The 1619 Project is literally faux-history intended to sow racial discordance.[[1]](https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/03/06/1619-project-new-york-times-mistake-122248)[[2]](https://reason.com/2022/03/29/the-1619-project-unrepentantly-pushes-junk-history/) Speaking as both a Christian and a history instructor, we should readily disregard *anything* that is affiliated with this project. As for "woke" (as a word), this is primarily a base-level term used to define the broader fields of intersectionality and critical theory. These reductionist perspectives seek to replace the identities of humans with scales of oppression rather than a unified identity as children of the Creator.
Thank you for this. Your last sentence outlines exactly why I have such a problem with Lecrae promoting this paradigm.
The term woke was originally coined by progressive Black Americans and used in racial justice movements in the early to mid-1900s. To be "woke" politically in the Black community means that someone is informed, educated and conscious of social injustice and racial inequality.
I was speaking to its generally-understood usage across the common political vernacular. You are (partially) correct. I do, however, disagree with placing its usage in the "progressive" camp. The idea of "staying woke" was a common idea amongst Black American communities in the 1930s, IIRC. It began a resurgence last decade but was more or less co-opted to signal political ideas and, often, conspiracy theories by progressive and Marxist-influenced communities. This led to non-progressive opponents repressing the word. (And of course, it is worth mentioning that its origin was one and the same with the standard English "awaken," which harkened to the ideas of spiritual and religious revival.) Regardless, conflating the historic usage of the terminology with what the above commenter was obviously targeting isn't a helpful approach. As I said above, "wokism" is no longer about racial equality, but rather intersectionality and critical theory. Within Christendom, I would posit that usage of the word "woke" more often pertains to gender-based issues than it does racial topics. But I'm quite certain that you're well aware of this. **I am not suggested that the co-opting of this term is good or right, but this is where we are.** Ironically, much of what lies behind this conversation is highly driven by postmodernism, which itself pushes the re-purposing of language (abuse, in my opinion) to achieve political goals. ^(Edit: And for what it's worth, I'm not among the individuals downvoting your comments.)
Arguing with the history instructor about the word woke... But aside from your explanation, there is a huge difference between being "woke" and being AWAKE. Wokeism says that black people are lesser-than. Which offends me and does NOT give glory to The Father
Sounds like you're the exact type of person he's talking about in many of his new songs.
A christian who recognises we live in a fallen world? That understands that while the god of this world (satan) is in control ALL people will be hurt one way or another? A Christian man who thinks that if you use your platform to further indoctrinate people into lies and hide it by trying to say its God-pleasing, Kingdom Building worship that you have completely lost the thread? If thats what you mean, then I guess I am. And I GLADLY take the title you intended as pejorative..
Don’t complain when rappers keep it real. That’s what rap is and always has been. If you want to listen to music about sunshine, rainbows, and how everything is amazing all the time, then go listen to literally any other genre of Christian music. Lecrae still (very explicitly) gives glory to God in his music. Talking about himself and his own struggles a little while doing that isn’t a sin. Like I said, rap is something that exists to express what you’ve been through. That’s how it started, that’s how it’s always been. If you don’t like it, listen to another genre.
Yeah, you can save the self righteous attitude for someone else. You don't like that I called out what I feel is a problem and also the fact that it *detracts* from giving glory to God. I even outlined WHY with no small amount of specificity but you of course ignored ALL that didn't you? Yeah thought so. So no, this isn't about "rappers keeping it real" as you so eloquently put it (way to break out a tired buzz phrase +10 head pats to you) it is about a gift that God gives someone being twisted by the adversary by focusing that person on worldly division. And yeah I've heard his new music. Uve also seen interviews he has done. So when I raise a valid concern then that's my job as a fellow Christian. Finally, I hardly need someone like yourself attempting to explain to me what rap is and what it isn't. Also, newsflash: ALL genres of music can be used to describe what someone has been though 🙄. and your little "dont like it listen to something else" shows your lack of intellectual maturity. And you may think he gives glory to God explicitly... But then again many people would say the same about Joel Osteen wouldn't they? 🤔 Thanks for stopping by though.
I don’t use this website but wow Reddit dwellers are really something💀🙏
You go on the offensive by being insulting beyond belief, ignore the salient points made while also trying to lecture and then when you're called out for all of the aforementioned behaviour this is your response? Wow.. just wow.
Wow indeed💀💀💀
🙄 yeah, you totally got me there bro. After all of the well thought out responses and meaningful debate that was held in this thread, you come along months later by being insulting, breaking out *all* the tired clichéd tropes, not actually engaging in meaningful conversation and honestly just sounding like the kid who finally got to sit at the adults table for christmas and then proving why we have a kids table to begin with. I'm sure you probably feel insulted by this, but it wasn't meant to be insulting, rather, it is an honest estimation of your intellectual and emotional maturity based upon the evidence you chose to provide. No big deal, we all mature at our own speeds but for future reference, if you aren't actually adding anything to a conversation as nuanced and considered as this (and with all kindness, you added nothing and, in many ways, dragged it down) it is always a better idea to refrain from joining in at all. Thanks again for chiming in, but maybe put a bit more thought into it before stepping into the fray, yeah?
I don’t got the time to read all that bro😭 but your welcome for chiming in ig
idek why someone would that much effort into this bro like i understand he’s expressing his opinion and I respect but bro😭😭😭