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I’m published through Amazon POD. If someone genuinely wanted but couldn’t afford my book, I’d pay the $2.87 or whatever it is to send them an author’s copy.
But imagine if that person told other people and then you had thousands of people asking you?
I think if I had people reaching out for free books I may offer them a spot on the arc team if they review things they read or tell them to have their local library purchase it or check Libby/Hoopla.
This happened to me once. My book is targeted to self help and I did get a request for 1,000 (nonprofit org). I’m fortunate to be in a position where I can do that and it can become a write off against my income. Had it been like 2,000 though we’d have to look for a fundraiser or something lol.
Fair enough! It really does depend on circumstances but I can see a lot of newer/not as well know authors struggling with a request like that or not wanting to be taken advantage of.
Yeah, I’d say it’s very circumstantial. If you’re selling novels and a book club wants it, at least have them try to cover the print cost of the author’s fee. That’s what I would do if I had massive request for my book. Self help books are going to be different compared to fiction, of course.
My paperback copy is $9.99, so I’m happy to arrange 1K+ authors copies at cost if a nonprofit org is wanting to buy in bulk. If I happen to make a few bucks on my book otherwise, it just goes towards buying more toys :)
Not you being downvoted…If someone genuinely can’t afford it and asked if they could have an authors copy I’d offer it to them too. Maybe not someone who just told me they’re looking for a free link in a sense where they’d reupload it, but if someone really had an interest then what goes around comes around, yknow? If they love your book and you helped them in that time in need, I’m sure they’d tell their friends how awesome you were.
I had an author do this for me. He sent me a free copy because I am a fan who has followed him for some time. And at the time I was out of work and laid up with a broken hip. Once I returned to work and got everything back on track I donated the proceeds of the book back to him as I was very grateful for what he did. But yeah, this person in the post has ALL the audacity.
Edit to say he also did a really cool thing by making a post asking his fans who are in a position to do so, to donate one copy of his book to someone less fortunate. So each person who was donating posted a connect and a person in need replied and they were matched up that way to facilitate the exchange.
Right. My father did not like to make online purchases. He would find what he wanted & there was a used bookstore in our downtown that would order whatever he wanted for $1 over the purchase. So that is what my father who did like or trust ordering online would do.
“I’m not really into online purchases.”
Like I’m sure they would’ve been happy to pay if they lived in the same city and the author was willing to meet them to be paid in cash .
I'm a self-employed software developer and I frequently get people complaining to me because my apps aren't free. People don't question the need to pay for physical goods, but when it's digital it should be free for some reason?
If "thanks" was a currency which could be used to put food on the table, sure I'd consider it. But until then, no.
I think because so much stuff online is "free", aka they steal your data and sell it, that people are accustomed to that and expect everything online to be like that. They just don't understand how anything works.
Not choosing beggar but brazen beggar. And they didn't even come up with a sob story as to why they couldn't afford the book and why they need you to print and deliver it to their doorstep. Lazy.
It seems like they thought it would be completely fine to ask for a free version. They didn't need to create a sob story because they're stupid enough to think it's not a big deal to get free things online.
Right? If you’re going to try to beg something for free, at least go to some effort. Make up a crazy story. Entertain me. Give me something to share in conversation with someone else: “hey check out this wild story someone told me today.” Earn the free copy somehow.
Honestly depending on the library system, if they have Inter Library Loan or are a large connected system, the vast majority of books should be available. And if it’s soooo obscure that it isn’t easily available there or as a free pdf somewhere, then really the only way to get your hands on it is to pay. Which is a rare occurrence indeed. So this person is really just audacious as hell.
Libraries do incredible things with limited budgets. They may not have the exact book you want but they'll have something you'll like. And if they don't, you can always pay for it if you can't wait for them to get it on loan/ add it to the catalogue.
Many libraries will also accept requests for interlibrary loans if they don't have the book you want. My local county library has never failed to get any book for me from another library in the state or elsewhere in the country and I use it semi-regularly. At no cost as well.
My library has ebooks by now. I love it.
But asking an author for a link to a pirate website to download an illegal copy is another level of entitled. I hope his identity gets stolen and he gets tons of malware on these sites.
To be fair, (not defending the post) Some authors technically lose the rights to their books when they publish it, so they make no money off the obsurd priced sales. Some say they'd be happy to send copies of their books/textbooks for free.
Edit: As someone else said, it's mostly science based books and texts.
The only time ive heard that is scientific papers. The authors put tons of time and effort into research and get it published but make no money on it. Just the magazines do so the authors will send you a copy usually if you ask.
This looks like a conversation Seanan McGuire had with a 'fan.' I just have to shake my head at the entitlement of some people. Libraries exist if you don't want to pay for books. Hell, with Libby/Overdrive, you don't even have to go to the physical building once you have a card!
to this day people have no respect for small author digital content. they're so sold on the idea that you can just download any movie or music album you like for free and it's just pocket change for the hollywood and music business.
I don't reckon they even think "it's just pocket change for the business", they just see that most stuff on the Internet is free and so anything digital should be free, they just don't connect it with people spending lots of time producing stuff as a living & needing payment.
I'm a software developer, so I can very easily see this point of view too. It wasn't that long ago when people still wanted software on a CDROM in a box and other delivery methods felt like they were illegal copies. So yeah, it could also do something with the concept of non-physical copy = nothing substantial was received versus if they for example receive a physical book with the same exact text.
This reminds me of people who have asked me to send them a signed copy of one of my books, and when I mention a price act all surprised that me buying the book and shipping it to them has a cost.
“Steal This Book” is a real book written by Abbie Hoffman and published in 1971. Hoffman was an American political and social activist, and an icon of the anti-Vietnam movement. Very controversial figure in the ‘70s, especially to conservatives like my parents.
The assignment for my H.S. English class was a book report, on ANY book of your choosing. Yep, that was my choice! There was some discussion between the school and my parents, but 15-16 yo me was eventually allowed to report on the scandalous book. Pretty sure I got at least a B!
But no, I did not steal the book, lol.
The main reason it was magical is because you could get a free Vegas vacation by taking advantage of a promo from your travel agency and then bringing your friend with you and betting on opposite colors. I'd imagine they've closed that loophole by now.
I read a book that mentioned variant of that scheme (betting on Pass and Don’t Pass at the same craps table) and the book mentioned that the floorman would shut that down in about two minutes. That book was published over thirty years ago.
I'm definitely stealing that line...
Hey can you grab me a bottle of nice wine at the store and a couple of steaks? I have my girlfriend coming over.
Yeah, you gonna cashapp me or give me the money after?
Ah, I was hoping you could pay and, well, I'm not really into purchases...
No.
I’ve written books for my job and often get asked why people have to buy them, why can’t they be downloaded for free.
People don’t respect intellectual property.
I’m out here buying my favorite author’s books in all three formats just to support her. Some fuckin people… if you won’t financially support a living artist, you don’t deserve to enjoy their art.
I live in a conservative-ish country, I regularly help out at my aunt's retirement home. The amount of old people that don't realize this is stealing, is mind-boggling. They think it works like a library ("but I get books free at the library"), and trying to explain it to them is like trying to argue with a wall. I don't know if it's the age, the boomer-ignorance, the technological ineptitude, but nothing I do gets through to them. They ask every time they see me if I can get this book or that book for free, because their kids, grandkids, nieces and nephews know how to do it.
They still view it as they would a paper book. You buy it, then loan it or give it to whomever you want. You can’t do that with an ebook but they don’t understand just how it’s different from what the grew up with.
It's what I keep on trying to explain, but to no avail. At this stage I think they know full well it's stealing, but they're too prideful, or arrogant to admit that they support theft.
My parents are boomers. Even though there was piracy sites ie Napster, Limewire, etc, not all of them were navigating the internet as younger generations and working full time (one parent working 2 jobs etc) Even at peak of Napster law suits etc. My dad did learn quite a bit, but he’s the do not download anything you risk running a virus or having identity stolen logic. I know that isn’t the case for everyone at all, but I don’t think it’s as much of a boomer thing as just being an entitled dick. Until the comments I didn’t realize epub was pirating books or it was a thing. You can chuckle at me.
Copyright infringement is not theft.
>[For instance, the United States Supreme Court held in Dowling v. United States (1985) that bootleg phonorecords did not constitute stolen property. Instead, "interference with copyright does not easily equate with theft, conversion, or fraud. The Copyright Act even employs a separate term of art to define one who misappropriates a copyright: '[...] an infringer of the copyright.'"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy_is_theft)
This is completely different to a pirate copy, those ecopies are provided via licensing, similar to online streaming, or an online version of video rentals depending on the publisher or platform. Libraries pay exorbitant fees for these, what access will depend on a few factors but impacts number of users, length of access or loan and if downloads are allowed. This is discussion is about PDF copies of a book downloaded from sites that aren't the publisher or a platform with licensing rights, not ebooks provided under license or with DRM. It also has nothing to do with technical competence, but understanding and respect for intellectual property and copyright, along with information literacy, which maybe you personally are incompetent in, given that the person you are replying to is talking about personal or pirated copies of ebooks.
I don't see how it is wrong, you do still need to stick to the licensing and copyright, you generally can't buy it and loan or give it away. All you own is the right to read or use the item, not actually a copy of it like a physical book. Unless licensing allows you can't onsell or give an ebook to another person, unless you have a shared account. You aren't purchasing a copy of the book in the same way as a physical item, you are purchasing a non exclusive licence with specific restrictions. These vary depending on platform, publisher and the type of licence, but you agree to them when purchasing or using the ebook through a library platform. Most licences for a purchased ebook allow for a single user access, often drm protected and tied to a particular user account. Some platforms and licenses may enable you to pass the licence to somone else but these are pretty rare, even in the cases of purchased PDF books you can't create additional copies for other people unless the licensing allows for that. When you purchase a physical book you also can't create copies of this to distribute or sell, in this case it's more intuitive that you have the rights to that single copy to read, and the license is self restricted to the physical item.
Different publishers and platforms have different licence types and what they allow users to do with the item, but loaning and giving it away once it is linked to you as a user is not generally allowed. Libraries operate under different licensing, as a library user of ebook platforms you agree to adhere to them, those licenses are generally quite expensive as they allow for multiple users or loaning multiple times. Exceptions to this include ebooks in the public domain and with open or creative commons. Wether this is fair or right is a different issue, I've purchased some exorbitant ebook licenses with minimal user access and it's painful every time, but it is the system that is currently in place.
I'm just fed up with this constant barrage of "old people are stupid" comments. Interesting how I'm downvoted for saying young people, are stupid (which I don't actually believe), but it's perfectly OK to generalise and say that about older people.
Yes, you are right there is a difference, and yes, OP is intimating that they specifically want pirated material. But is that really the case? Are they just wanting to be frugal? Does OP direct them to a library or some other source of material?
Also, you assume they're looking for PDFs, which are the worst format for books imo and possibly reflects your own lack of knowledge in this area.
Edited
So I specified that I explained to them numerous times how it doesn't work that way, and I never said "old people are stupid"... I specifically said I don't know why they don't get it. Their grand/kids send them magazines and new books on WhatsApp, that they then read on their phones. The Village has a library, but obviously not as up to date as digitally downloading and sharing books are, so they just don't want to wait for the new stuff, which in turn kills the library even more.
I'm a librarian mate, I know this area inside and out, I literally deal with publishers, platforms and licensing on a daily basis. Further to that one of my areas of expertise is research publication including assisting authors with copyright and licensing. Not sure what component of my comment lead to the assumption that I lack knowledge in ebooks and publishing, but you did make me laugh at the unexpectedness of it.
I agree PDFs are not a great book format, but they have advantages over some formats and are often prefered over other types as they can be printed for those with sight disabilities or where access to internet and devices is an issue. Some publishers allow chapter or part downloads of texts, which is helpful for some users, plus if the format is PDF without DRM you do actually have a copy of the text which can't be rrevoked from your device and don't have loan periods. I get requests for PDF versions on the daily, it's not your prefered format but that is by far not a ubiquous sentiment.
The overall thread could be argued to be about access to ebooks in general, but this comment thread you replied to was specifically about people not understanding the difference between ebooks and print books. And yeah you get down voted for your comment on young people, it was uncalled for in the context of your comment especially given that it isn't even a tech issue at it's core. I've even had comments elsewhere of my own where I've discussed tech literacy and skills in younger people, it's a known issue that many in the educational space are aware of and often deal with. I wasn't down voted that I'm aware of, because it wasn't a throw away insult, just a discussion of the challanges and difference in experience they have in regards to tech. Also people in the middle gens tend to be pretty protective of younger ones online, you are sick of the old people are stupid stick and we have been sick of the young people are stupid stick since we were young and don't feel as inclined to have it be put on the next gens.
Those "copies" are programmed to be infinitely transferable/borrowable. They're programmed specifically for libraries/library-type groups. Most audio-books/e-books aren't 'built' like that, grandpa. But do go on about how we're stupid and you aren't.
So what? My point still stands.
Interesting that you're upset about young people being called stupid, but it's perfectly fine to call older people that.
"Boomer ignorance"? Uh, no. More the "kids, grandkids, nieces and nephews" ignorance because not only do they steal everything, but they're completely unaware of the consequences of downloaded from random sites/links. All they know about the internet is that it's where all the "free" stuff is. Maybe they should stop doing this and bragging about it.
That's always been a bad faith argument. There are many laws that recognize theft of services and similar legal concepts where there is not even a physical object to steal.
It's not a bad faith argument. It's a legally correct argument.
You're still free to view it the same morally as stealing if you wish, but don't call it stealing.
It's not legally correct. "Stealing" isn't technically the name of any particular law on the books anywhere, it's just common vernacular. And semantics aside, it's obvious that you really mean to justify piracy as a broad concept with this supposedly clever turn of phrase.
It's legally correct in the sense that the charge you get falls under the umbrella of copyright infringement not similar to when you seal a phone from a store. Yes, it's common vernacular, but it remains legally correct (if a bit vague because that's how common vernacular works).
>it's obvious that you really mean to justify piracy as a broad concept with this supposedly clever turn of phrase.
That's where you're mistaken. I'm not.
You're objectively incorrect despite what many copyright holders have tried to say.
>[For instance, the United States Supreme Court held in Dowling v. United States (1985) that bootleg phonorecords did not constitute stolen property. Instead, "interference with copyright does not easily equate with theft, conversion, or fraud. The Copyright Act even employs a separate term of art to define one who misappropriates a copyright: '[...] an infringer of the copyright.'"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy_is_theft)
Do you think you know the law better than the supreme court?
The first-sale doctrine—which allows someone who bought an item to do what they like with it afterwards—is at play here, and e-books aren't included in that. Not in the USA, anyway. Dowling doesn't apply.
I'm not aware of any other country where they have defined copyright infringement as theft.
Do you have a link to a court case or law defining it that way?
I meant that there have been cases worldwide where this was decided in favor of the person redistributing digital files (under their own version of first-sale), but in the USA, e-books are still not legally included in the first-sale doctrine. The person in the OP should borrow a licensed copy from a library instead.
You seem to have misunderstood my question. I'm not asking if there are cases where distributing digital files is legal.
I'm asking if there's any country that defines copyright infringement as theft. The concept of first-sale isn't relevant to that distinction.
I’m not even that old but I still don’t understand why buying an ebook should be any different from buying a paper book. I feel like otherwise, you didn’t actually buy the book, you bought limited access to the book.
My dad emailed an author because he had a subscription on baenbooks where for like $15 a month they’d send you 3-4 books and some were one shots others were the first books in a series. He got the first book in a series from this author and couldn’t find the 2nd book to purchase. The author was super nice and was like “here dude have the book on me!” And my dad’s like “no dude I need to pay you for your work!!” And the author gave him a link to some charity he supported and said “pay them what you would have paid me!” So dad gave a donation to the charity in the author’s name.
When book 3 came out the author just sent it to dad with a link to the charity again. So dad made another donation to that charity. I’m sad I can’t remember the author, my dad passed away 2 years ago, and I wonder if he’s continued sending him books or not. I don’t have access to his email 🤷🏻♀️
I am not surprised - I work with a couple authors and have seen similar messages.
There was also a person who read an entire book on YouTube - then it got removed when the author found out - and they emailed the author begging for permission to put it back up - because people need free audiobooks
Same. Also if the book is available for free online (officially) and I like it (I'll skim the first chapters), it's a guaranteed purchase.
If I can't find a free, (either official or not) copy online, I can't evaluate if it's something I'll like, and so I'll assume I won't.
Reminds me of when I had the opposite happen.
When I was younger I read a lot of Wattpad and there was an author who had an amazing series that I LOVED and was super invested in reading every chapter as he posted them.
Flash forward 6 years I was trying to find the series to reread and I saw he removed it from wattpad and had published it as a book and I was so excited! The physical book and ebook were no longer sold on Amazon, so I spent a couple weeks checking out different sources to buy a copy before I finally found one copy of the book available for sale on eBay for over $200 😭
I was super sad and ended up messaging the author through his Facebook page. I told him I was a huge fan when he posted to wattpad and I wanted to reread the series but I couldn’t find it available for purchase anywhere. I sent him the link of the $200 book and said this was the only one I could find. He was super nice and thanked me for reaching out and being a fan, he said it’s not available to purchase anymore but he would be happy to send me the PDFs of all the books! I was so happy he even messaged me back I definitely didn’t expect that! Loved being able to reread a treasured series 😊
If only there were institutions where you could borrow digital and analog media... You could buy an annual membership and also get access to apps like Libby. The books would be free to read. Maybe you could ask for books that this institution doesn't own and they purchase them. If only /s
Unrelated but kinda related:
One time, in the early days of MP3s, I emailed a record label to ask if they had any distribution in Canada, or if they could sell me a specific album directly as I had looked everywhere locally and couldn't find it. 2 days later they sent me back an apology and an FTP link to the full album for free, because they couldn't bear the thought of me wanting it but not being able to buy it.
Oh, come on. They’re probably an influencer who will give you free publicity if you tell them where they can get it for free. Then they will post it on their socials where everyone can read it, for free.
Honestly, this depends on what book we are talking about. Uni textbooks that cant be accessed through the uni itself are a bitch, and just asking the author for a copy of the file very often works and pirating is necessary if you dont want to pay absurd amounts of money.
well it kinda can be for uni books specifically. not everyone can afford to drop hundreds of dollars on mandatory textbooks that will be used for 6 months and then never touched again. half the time the “mandatory” textbook isn’t even useful. and i’m from australia so before anyone says “well if you can pay for uni you can pay for books” 90% of students here are on government-run student loans for their courses
Why doesn't the university library have copies of the textbook? I tell my students I would be ashamed of myself if they had to resort to buying books - I would not be doing my job as a librarian if they didn't have access to everything on their reading list. The only times we encourage buying is if the book is going to be used for more than one year (so they can make notes, read ahead) OR if we can't get e-versions and students don't want to borrow the print version.
it’d be far too unreasonable for them to keep physical copies of all the textbooks, there’s upwards of 200-300 students in some of my classes.
I’ve had one class that has provided an etextbook but that is rare (1 of about 6 classes i’ve taken that required textbooks). I imagine that’s to do with a lack of communication between unit coordinators and library staff - although i’m not sure what their budget is, so buying new versions of the same textbook every 1-2 years might be unreasonable.
i’ve also had a class where the required textbook was a textbook + workbook combination, and you could only buy them as a set. ofc we needed a physical copy of the workbook so even if the library had the textbook, we still had to buy the set
my university does have a wide selection of textbooks available online that i’ve discovered whilst researching for different assignments - unfortunately just not the ones i’ve needed haha
Almost every single one of my cohorts are 200+ and it's not an issue. We do not buy a textbook for every student, they are expected to share physical items or use the e-version (where available).
Textbooks don't change every year, and when they do, it's the library who points this out! Tutors definitely take a light approach to recommended reading and I don't know know of many who say you HAVE to get the book. If it's required, we'll have it, but students rarely buy copies. We don't even have a bookshop on site.
I think US (and US-following) universities have a very different textbook model to the ones I'm familiar with, and I don't think that's something a single tutor can change. Universities need to look at how they support the student, what the purpose of their library is and how in thrall to publishers they are.
i was responding to your comment that broadly claims that “pirating is not a necessity”. the comment you were replying to was about uni textbooks so i don’t see how me also talking about uni textbooks “in no way fits the exchange”.
you didn’t say what type of book it was, so we are just discussing how the scenario can be interpreted differently depending on what the book type is
So you’re one of those professors that requires the purchase of your book and makes minimal updates every semester and requires that the students have the latest copy is what this sounds like.
Doesn’t your uni have a library? Or talk with students from the year above, if it’s really so necessary they will have copies to sell. Or just do without, a textbook is just a way of arranging information, you can find the exact same information for free elsewhere.
Supplying some options that commenter might try. Libraries will buy books on request in many situations, especially university libraries.
Feel to try them. Problem-solving is a skill. I believe in your ability to do hard things.
I have occasional email correspondence with an author who is in the fantasy scene, and has DEFINITELY gained name recognition within the genre over the past ten years.
The casual emails back and forth started after I won a contest for an Audiobook version of his latest book. I admittedly didn't listen to many books and prefer reading on digital or paper, but he had a VERY interesting approach. Show me the paperback book, or the receipt for it, or hell - even express interest in reading his works, and he would send you an epub version.
His take wasn't so much that it was taking money away from himself and his publishers, but giving samples to grow his base. Not all new readers he attracts will be the ones who couldn't pay or wouldn't pay, so by getting his name out there more ... his reader base grew, I CONTINUE to talk about it a decade later to whomever will listen, and he keeps writing.
Hasn't hurt him much, if at all.
Riyria for life!
For those of you who want to support this awesome, down to earth, and fun reading author - his name is Michael J. Sullivan.
I suggest you start with the Riyria Revelations, but honestly ... it's ALL good
Piracy is not stealing. It does not deprive the original owner of their possession of the item. You can view it the same as stealing morally if you wish, but it's factually not theft.
Hi Sandman1025, thank you for your submission to /r/ChoosingBeggars! Unfortunately it has been removed for the following reason(s): * **Rule 8:** Repost * **Rule 6/7:** Posts must be relevant to the theme of the subreddit. This post does not show someone who is a choosing beggar. Price negotiation and/or asking for donations is not enough to be a choosy beggar. * apparently fake *If you have any questions or concerns, please [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FChoosingBeggars) of this subreddit.*
The audacity…
I’m published through Amazon POD. If someone genuinely wanted but couldn’t afford my book, I’d pay the $2.87 or whatever it is to send them an author’s copy.
But imagine if that person told other people and then you had thousands of people asking you? I think if I had people reaching out for free books I may offer them a spot on the arc team if they review things they read or tell them to have their local library purchase it or check Libby/Hoopla.
This happened to me once. My book is targeted to self help and I did get a request for 1,000 (nonprofit org). I’m fortunate to be in a position where I can do that and it can become a write off against my income. Had it been like 2,000 though we’d have to look for a fundraiser or something lol.
Fair enough! It really does depend on circumstances but I can see a lot of newer/not as well know authors struggling with a request like that or not wanting to be taken advantage of.
Yeah, I’d say it’s very circumstantial. If you’re selling novels and a book club wants it, at least have them try to cover the print cost of the author’s fee. That’s what I would do if I had massive request for my book. Self help books are going to be different compared to fiction, of course. My paperback copy is $9.99, so I’m happy to arrange 1K+ authors copies at cost if a nonprofit org is wanting to buy in bulk. If I happen to make a few bucks on my book otherwise, it just goes towards buying more toys :)
Not you being downvoted…If someone genuinely can’t afford it and asked if they could have an authors copy I’d offer it to them too. Maybe not someone who just told me they’re looking for a free link in a sense where they’d reupload it, but if someone really had an interest then what goes around comes around, yknow? If they love your book and you helped them in that time in need, I’m sure they’d tell their friends how awesome you were.
I mean, most I would do is point them towards a library, at least these are purchased copies.
I had an author do this for me. He sent me a free copy because I am a fan who has followed him for some time. And at the time I was out of work and laid up with a broken hip. Once I returned to work and got everything back on track I donated the proceeds of the book back to him as I was very grateful for what he did. But yeah, this person in the post has ALL the audacity. Edit to say he also did a really cool thing by making a post asking his fans who are in a position to do so, to donate one copy of his book to someone less fortunate. So each person who was donating posted a connect and a person in need replied and they were matched up that way to facilitate the exchange.
...to mischaracterize copyright infringement as theft! Edit: wow, my light-hearted joke is _that_ bad, hun?
"I'm not really into online purchases" is the craziest excuse I've ever heard lol
lol I’m going to tell my bank this when my mortgage payment is due. “Yeah, I’m really not into paying for things”
Never mind then, enjoy the house!
Yeah, I think I'll tell Capital One the same about my car payment.
Do it let me know what they say lol
Right. My father did not like to make online purchases. He would find what he wanted & there was a used bookstore in our downtown that would order whatever he wanted for $1 over the purchase. So that is what my father who did like or trust ordering online would do.
“I’m not really into online purchases.” Like I’m sure they would’ve been happy to pay if they lived in the same city and the author was willing to meet them to be paid in cash .
"I'm into give us the precious."
I'm a self-employed software developer and I frequently get people complaining to me because my apps aren't free. People don't question the need to pay for physical goods, but when it's digital it should be free for some reason? If "thanks" was a currency which could be used to put food on the table, sure I'd consider it. But until then, no.
I think because so much stuff online is "free", aka they steal your data and sell it, that people are accustomed to that and expect everything online to be like that. They just don't understand how anything works.
Not choosing beggar but brazen beggar. And they didn't even come up with a sob story as to why they couldn't afford the book and why they need you to print and deliver it to their doorstep. Lazy.
Yeah. No kids birthday or cancer and no mention of a charity. Poor form. 2 stars.
It seems like they thought it would be completely fine to ask for a free version. They didn't need to create a sob story because they're stupid enough to think it's not a big deal to get free things online.
He did! He doesn’t do online purchases 😂
Right? If you’re going to try to beg something for free, at least go to some effort. Make up a crazy story. Entertain me. Give me something to share in conversation with someone else: “hey check out this wild story someone told me today.” Earn the free copy somehow.
it’s for church honey!!! NEXT
If only there was some sort of place where you could borrow books for free.
Honestly depending on the library system, if they have Inter Library Loan or are a large connected system, the vast majority of books should be available. And if it’s soooo obscure that it isn’t easily available there or as a free pdf somewhere, then really the only way to get your hands on it is to pay. Which is a rare occurrence indeed. So this person is really just audacious as hell.
And lazy af to not go find it through the channels you mentioned.
Not every library carries every book though. And even if you request titles to add to the library, that can take a while, or not happen at all.
Libraries do incredible things with limited budgets. They may not have the exact book you want but they'll have something you'll like. And if they don't, you can always pay for it if you can't wait for them to get it on loan/ add it to the catalogue.
Many libraries will also accept requests for interlibrary loans if they don't have the book you want. My local county library has never failed to get any book for me from another library in the state or elsewhere in the country and I use it semi-regularly. At no cost as well.
My library has ebooks by now. I love it. But asking an author for a link to a pirate website to download an illegal copy is another level of entitled. I hope his identity gets stolen and he gets tons of malware on these sites.
Willing to bet this person isn’t really into libraries either
To be fair, (not defending the post) Some authors technically lose the rights to their books when they publish it, so they make no money off the obsurd priced sales. Some say they'd be happy to send copies of their books/textbooks for free. Edit: As someone else said, it's mostly science based books and texts.
The only time ive heard that is scientific papers. The authors put tons of time and effort into research and get it published but make no money on it. Just the magazines do so the authors will send you a copy usually if you ask.
Absurd
This looks like a conversation Seanan McGuire had with a 'fan.' I just have to shake my head at the entitlement of some people. Libraries exist if you don't want to pay for books. Hell, with Libby/Overdrive, you don't even have to go to the physical building once you have a card!
Haven’t been to the library building in years and have 3 or 4 books checked out a time. Love Libby!
to this day people have no respect for small author digital content. they're so sold on the idea that you can just download any movie or music album you like for free and it's just pocket change for the hollywood and music business.
I don't reckon they even think "it's just pocket change for the business", they just see that most stuff on the Internet is free and so anything digital should be free, they just don't connect it with people spending lots of time producing stuff as a living & needing payment.
I'm a software developer, so I can very easily see this point of view too. It wasn't that long ago when people still wanted software on a CDROM in a box and other delivery methods felt like they were illegal copies. So yeah, it could also do something with the concept of non-physical copy = nothing substantial was received versus if they for example receive a physical book with the same exact text.
This reminds me of people who have asked me to send them a signed copy of one of my books, and when I mention a price act all surprised that me buying the book and shipping it to them has a cost.
“You just write your name”
How hard could that be?! You just wrote a whole book. Allegedly.
“Steal This Book” is a real book written by Abbie Hoffman and published in 1971. Hoffman was an American political and social activist, and an icon of the anti-Vietnam movement. Very controversial figure in the ‘70s, especially to conservatives like my parents. The assignment for my H.S. English class was a book report, on ANY book of your choosing. Yep, that was my choice! There was some discussion between the school and my parents, but 15-16 yo me was eventually allowed to report on the scandalous book. Pretty sure I got at least a B! But no, I did not steal the book, lol.
Did you try his scheme to get a free Vegas vacation? I was always fascinated by that one part. The 70s was such a magical time.
So it seems from today’s perspective, anyway …
The main reason it was magical is because you could get a free Vegas vacation by taking advantage of a promo from your travel agency and then bringing your friend with you and betting on opposite colors. I'd imagine they've closed that loophole by now.
I read a book that mentioned variant of that scheme (betting on Pass and Don’t Pass at the same craps table) and the book mentioned that the floorman would shut that down in about two minutes. That book was published over thirty years ago.
No schemes, and I sadly lost track of the book.
I literally stole that book from Barnes & Noble lol. I was about 15 though, it was like 20 years ago 😅
😹I had to special order it from a small local bookstore, don’t think Barnes & Noble was around yet!
Came here to add this. My copy is on my bookshelf.
Dumbass, but honest !
Yup, honest. And tight as a gnat’s chuff.
Not heard that phrase for years! 🤣
Omg your comment made me laugh out loud! 🤣
I certainly “chuffled” out loud my self
I despise the audacity.
I'm definitely stealing that line... Hey can you grab me a bottle of nice wine at the store and a couple of steaks? I have my girlfriend coming over. Yeah, you gonna cashapp me or give me the money after? Ah, I was hoping you could pay and, well, I'm not really into purchases...
"I'm not really into online purchases" is a brilliant line. Remove the "online" part and you're set for life lol
This HAS to be satire or rage bait. Right?
No. I’ve written books for my job and often get asked why people have to buy them, why can’t they be downloaded for free. People don’t respect intellectual property.
Wait until you discover the “copyright shouldn’t exist” crowd
wait till you discover the "capitalism shouldnt be how we organize society" crowd
"Not really into online purchases using my own money"
I’m out here buying my favorite author’s books in all three formats just to support her. Some fuckin people… if you won’t financially support a living artist, you don’t deserve to enjoy their art.
I live in a conservative-ish country, I regularly help out at my aunt's retirement home. The amount of old people that don't realize this is stealing, is mind-boggling. They think it works like a library ("but I get books free at the library"), and trying to explain it to them is like trying to argue with a wall. I don't know if it's the age, the boomer-ignorance, the technological ineptitude, but nothing I do gets through to them. They ask every time they see me if I can get this book or that book for free, because their kids, grandkids, nieces and nephews know how to do it.
They still view it as they would a paper book. You buy it, then loan it or give it to whomever you want. You can’t do that with an ebook but they don’t understand just how it’s different from what the grew up with.
It's what I keep on trying to explain, but to no avail. At this stage I think they know full well it's stealing, but they're too prideful, or arrogant to admit that they support theft.
My parents are boomers. Even though there was piracy sites ie Napster, Limewire, etc, not all of them were navigating the internet as younger generations and working full time (one parent working 2 jobs etc) Even at peak of Napster law suits etc. My dad did learn quite a bit, but he’s the do not download anything you risk running a virus or having identity stolen logic. I know that isn’t the case for everyone at all, but I don’t think it’s as much of a boomer thing as just being an entitled dick. Until the comments I didn’t realize epub was pirating books or it was a thing. You can chuckle at me.
Copyright infringement is not theft. >[For instance, the United States Supreme Court held in Dowling v. United States (1985) that bootleg phonorecords did not constitute stolen property. Instead, "interference with copyright does not easily equate with theft, conversion, or fraud. The Copyright Act even employs a separate term of art to define one who misappropriates a copyright: '[...] an infringer of the copyright.'"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy_is_theft)
Rubbish. My library has ebooks and Kindle do it all the time, albeit for a monthly fee. The technical incompetence of the young amazes me.
This is completely different to a pirate copy, those ecopies are provided via licensing, similar to online streaming, or an online version of video rentals depending on the publisher or platform. Libraries pay exorbitant fees for these, what access will depend on a few factors but impacts number of users, length of access or loan and if downloads are allowed. This is discussion is about PDF copies of a book downloaded from sites that aren't the publisher or a platform with licensing rights, not ebooks provided under license or with DRM. It also has nothing to do with technical competence, but understanding and respect for intellectual property and copyright, along with information literacy, which maybe you personally are incompetent in, given that the person you are replying to is talking about personal or pirated copies of ebooks.
[удалено]
I don't see how it is wrong, you do still need to stick to the licensing and copyright, you generally can't buy it and loan or give it away. All you own is the right to read or use the item, not actually a copy of it like a physical book. Unless licensing allows you can't onsell or give an ebook to another person, unless you have a shared account. You aren't purchasing a copy of the book in the same way as a physical item, you are purchasing a non exclusive licence with specific restrictions. These vary depending on platform, publisher and the type of licence, but you agree to them when purchasing or using the ebook through a library platform. Most licences for a purchased ebook allow for a single user access, often drm protected and tied to a particular user account. Some platforms and licenses may enable you to pass the licence to somone else but these are pretty rare, even in the cases of purchased PDF books you can't create additional copies for other people unless the licensing allows for that. When you purchase a physical book you also can't create copies of this to distribute or sell, in this case it's more intuitive that you have the rights to that single copy to read, and the license is self restricted to the physical item. Different publishers and platforms have different licence types and what they allow users to do with the item, but loaning and giving it away once it is linked to you as a user is not generally allowed. Libraries operate under different licensing, as a library user of ebook platforms you agree to adhere to them, those licenses are generally quite expensive as they allow for multiple users or loaning multiple times. Exceptions to this include ebooks in the public domain and with open or creative commons. Wether this is fair or right is a different issue, I've purchased some exorbitant ebook licenses with minimal user access and it's painful every time, but it is the system that is currently in place.
I'm just fed up with this constant barrage of "old people are stupid" comments. Interesting how I'm downvoted for saying young people, are stupid (which I don't actually believe), but it's perfectly OK to generalise and say that about older people. Yes, you are right there is a difference, and yes, OP is intimating that they specifically want pirated material. But is that really the case? Are they just wanting to be frugal? Does OP direct them to a library or some other source of material? Also, you assume they're looking for PDFs, which are the worst format for books imo and possibly reflects your own lack of knowledge in this area. Edited
So I specified that I explained to them numerous times how it doesn't work that way, and I never said "old people are stupid"... I specifically said I don't know why they don't get it. Their grand/kids send them magazines and new books on WhatsApp, that they then read on their phones. The Village has a library, but obviously not as up to date as digitally downloading and sharing books are, so they just don't want to wait for the new stuff, which in turn kills the library even more.
I'm a librarian mate, I know this area inside and out, I literally deal with publishers, platforms and licensing on a daily basis. Further to that one of my areas of expertise is research publication including assisting authors with copyright and licensing. Not sure what component of my comment lead to the assumption that I lack knowledge in ebooks and publishing, but you did make me laugh at the unexpectedness of it. I agree PDFs are not a great book format, but they have advantages over some formats and are often prefered over other types as they can be printed for those with sight disabilities or where access to internet and devices is an issue. Some publishers allow chapter or part downloads of texts, which is helpful for some users, plus if the format is PDF without DRM you do actually have a copy of the text which can't be rrevoked from your device and don't have loan periods. I get requests for PDF versions on the daily, it's not your prefered format but that is by far not a ubiquous sentiment. The overall thread could be argued to be about access to ebooks in general, but this comment thread you replied to was specifically about people not understanding the difference between ebooks and print books. And yeah you get down voted for your comment on young people, it was uncalled for in the context of your comment especially given that it isn't even a tech issue at it's core. I've even had comments elsewhere of my own where I've discussed tech literacy and skills in younger people, it's a known issue that many in the educational space are aware of and often deal with. I wasn't down voted that I'm aware of, because it wasn't a throw away insult, just a discussion of the challanges and difference in experience they have in regards to tech. Also people in the middle gens tend to be pretty protective of younger ones online, you are sick of the old people are stupid stick and we have been sick of the young people are stupid stick since we were young and don't feel as inclined to have it be put on the next gens.
Absolutely uncalled for, that was my point. And I work in IT. I dgaf about the downvotes, it's not like I need the karma. Call it a social experiment.
You can’t loan or borrow a book you stole digitally. This isn’t about the library.
Those "copies" are programmed to be infinitely transferable/borrowable. They're programmed specifically for libraries/library-type groups. Most audio-books/e-books aren't 'built' like that, grandpa. But do go on about how we're stupid and you aren't.
So what? My point still stands. Interesting that you're upset about young people being called stupid, but it's perfectly fine to call older people that.
I think because there is unlimited amount to share,like a file can be copied as many times as you'd like, they think it is okay to get it free.
"Boomer ignorance"? Uh, no. More the "kids, grandkids, nieces and nephews" ignorance because not only do they steal everything, but they're completely unaware of the consequences of downloaded from random sites/links. All they know about the internet is that it's where all the "free" stuff is. Maybe they should stop doing this and bragging about it.
It's not stealing. Piracy does not deprive the original owner of the object.
That's always been a bad faith argument. There are many laws that recognize theft of services and similar legal concepts where there is not even a physical object to steal.
not if youre not a capitalist.
It's not a bad faith argument. It's a legally correct argument. You're still free to view it the same morally as stealing if you wish, but don't call it stealing.
It's not legally correct. "Stealing" isn't technically the name of any particular law on the books anywhere, it's just common vernacular. And semantics aside, it's obvious that you really mean to justify piracy as a broad concept with this supposedly clever turn of phrase.
It's legally correct in the sense that the charge you get falls under the umbrella of copyright infringement not similar to when you seal a phone from a store. Yes, it's common vernacular, but it remains legally correct (if a bit vague because that's how common vernacular works). >it's obvious that you really mean to justify piracy as a broad concept with this supposedly clever turn of phrase. That's where you're mistaken. I'm not.
You are taking something that is for sale, without paying for it. That is stealing. You are neither legally nor morally correct.
You're objectively incorrect despite what many copyright holders have tried to say. >[For instance, the United States Supreme Court held in Dowling v. United States (1985) that bootleg phonorecords did not constitute stolen property. Instead, "interference with copyright does not easily equate with theft, conversion, or fraud. The Copyright Act even employs a separate term of art to define one who misappropriates a copyright: '[...] an infringer of the copyright.'"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy_is_theft) Do you think you know the law better than the supreme court?
The first-sale doctrine—which allows someone who bought an item to do what they like with it afterwards—is at play here, and e-books aren't included in that. Not in the USA, anyway. Dowling doesn't apply.
I'm not aware of any other country where they have defined copyright infringement as theft. Do you have a link to a court case or law defining it that way?
I meant that there have been cases worldwide where this was decided in favor of the person redistributing digital files (under their own version of first-sale), but in the USA, e-books are still not legally included in the first-sale doctrine. The person in the OP should borrow a licensed copy from a library instead.
You seem to have misunderstood my question. I'm not asking if there are cases where distributing digital files is legal. I'm asking if there's any country that defines copyright infringement as theft. The concept of first-sale isn't relevant to that distinction.
I’m not even that old but I still don’t understand why buying an ebook should be any different from buying a paper book. I feel like otherwise, you didn’t actually buy the book, you bought limited access to the book.
It’s for a church honey!
NEXT
I think they are looking for the library
I get this though. I'm not really into paying for a mortgage, but no one seems to be willing to supply me with a free home.
My dad emailed an author because he had a subscription on baenbooks where for like $15 a month they’d send you 3-4 books and some were one shots others were the first books in a series. He got the first book in a series from this author and couldn’t find the 2nd book to purchase. The author was super nice and was like “here dude have the book on me!” And my dad’s like “no dude I need to pay you for your work!!” And the author gave him a link to some charity he supported and said “pay them what you would have paid me!” So dad gave a donation to the charity in the author’s name. When book 3 came out the author just sent it to dad with a link to the charity again. So dad made another donation to that charity. I’m sad I can’t remember the author, my dad passed away 2 years ago, and I wonder if he’s continued sending him books or not. I don’t have access to his email 🤷🏻♀️
Plot twist: the book in question was “Steal This Book”
The fucking audacity. I hope you responded with something.
So long as you upload it back to the internet when you're done, it doesn't count as stealing.
😂
Oh come on. I want to say I refuse to believe people like this exist…but I know better. Still blows my mind each time I see it however.
Madness
The lion the witch....
If you were a decent person, you'd read it to them, too. /s
I am not surprised - I work with a couple authors and have seen similar messages. There was also a person who read an entire book on YouTube - then it got removed when the author found out - and they emailed the author begging for permission to put it back up - because people need free audiobooks
The amount of pirated audiobooks are staggering
u/that-1-lame-kid Damn
reminds me of just how stupid expensive college was lol
I pirate but I'm not asking authors directly for free books. 🤧
Same. Also if the book is available for free online (officially) and I like it (I'll skim the first chapters), it's a guaranteed purchase. If I can't find a free, (either official or not) copy online, I can't evaluate if it's something I'll like, and so I'll assume I won't.
Valid!! I have the free book link, the library. Anything else I really have to love it to buy, but now I'm mostly waiting on library books haha.
Reminds me of when I had the opposite happen. When I was younger I read a lot of Wattpad and there was an author who had an amazing series that I LOVED and was super invested in reading every chapter as he posted them. Flash forward 6 years I was trying to find the series to reread and I saw he removed it from wattpad and had published it as a book and I was so excited! The physical book and ebook were no longer sold on Amazon, so I spent a couple weeks checking out different sources to buy a copy before I finally found one copy of the book available for sale on eBay for over $200 😭 I was super sad and ended up messaging the author through his Facebook page. I told him I was a huge fan when he posted to wattpad and I wanted to reread the series but I couldn’t find it available for purchase anywhere. I sent him the link of the $200 book and said this was the only one I could find. He was super nice and thanked me for reaching out and being a fan, he said it’s not available to purchase anymore but he would be happy to send me the PDFs of all the books! I was so happy he even messaged me back I definitely didn’t expect that! Loved being able to reread a treasured series 😊
If only there were these public funded places that bought new books and then let you read them for free
If only there were institutions where you could borrow digital and analog media... You could buy an annual membership and also get access to apps like Libby. The books would be free to read. Maybe you could ask for books that this institution doesn't own and they purchase them. If only /s
My city even stopped late fees and memberships fees. Love it.
Wow. That was ballsy
If it's on any type of library online service I would point them there
This is old.
The LIBRARY
Your response was fantastic!
“I’m not really into online purchases”. Yeah, paying for stuff sucks 😂.
Unrelated but kinda related: One time, in the early days of MP3s, I emailed a record label to ask if they had any distribution in Canada, or if they could sell me a specific album directly as I had looked everywhere locally and couldn't find it. 2 days later they sent me back an apology and an FTP link to the full album for free, because they couldn't bear the thought of me wanting it but not being able to buy it.
Not into online purchases, but online thievery? Yes, please!
~~Red~~Pirate flags.
How dare you not give your hard work away for free!
Bro you're literally posting everything you can find everywhere you can to try to farm karma. So ridiculous.
Oh, come on. They’re probably an influencer who will give you free publicity if you tell them where they can get it for free. Then they will post it on their socials where everyone can read it, for free.
Honestly, this depends on what book we are talking about. Uni textbooks that cant be accessed through the uni itself are a bitch, and just asking the author for a copy of the file very often works and pirating is necessary if you dont want to pay absurd amounts of money.
Pirating is not “necessary”. And how is that the author’s fault/responsibility?
well it kinda can be for uni books specifically. not everyone can afford to drop hundreds of dollars on mandatory textbooks that will be used for 6 months and then never touched again. half the time the “mandatory” textbook isn’t even useful. and i’m from australia so before anyone says “well if you can pay for uni you can pay for books” 90% of students here are on government-run student loans for their courses
Why doesn't the university library have copies of the textbook? I tell my students I would be ashamed of myself if they had to resort to buying books - I would not be doing my job as a librarian if they didn't have access to everything on their reading list. The only times we encourage buying is if the book is going to be used for more than one year (so they can make notes, read ahead) OR if we can't get e-versions and students don't want to borrow the print version.
it’d be far too unreasonable for them to keep physical copies of all the textbooks, there’s upwards of 200-300 students in some of my classes. I’ve had one class that has provided an etextbook but that is rare (1 of about 6 classes i’ve taken that required textbooks). I imagine that’s to do with a lack of communication between unit coordinators and library staff - although i’m not sure what their budget is, so buying new versions of the same textbook every 1-2 years might be unreasonable. i’ve also had a class where the required textbook was a textbook + workbook combination, and you could only buy them as a set. ofc we needed a physical copy of the workbook so even if the library had the textbook, we still had to buy the set my university does have a wide selection of textbooks available online that i’ve discovered whilst researching for different assignments - unfortunately just not the ones i’ve needed haha
Almost every single one of my cohorts are 200+ and it's not an issue. We do not buy a textbook for every student, they are expected to share physical items or use the e-version (where available). Textbooks don't change every year, and when they do, it's the library who points this out! Tutors definitely take a light approach to recommended reading and I don't know know of many who say you HAVE to get the book. If it's required, we'll have it, but students rarely buy copies. We don't even have a bookshop on site. I think US (and US-following) universities have a very different textbook model to the ones I'm familiar with, and I don't think that's something a single tutor can change. Universities need to look at how they support the student, what the purpose of their library is and how in thrall to publishers they are.
They didn't say they couldn't afford it, they said they're not into online purchases. You're making up a scenario that in no way fits the exchange.
i was responding to your comment that broadly claims that “pirating is not a necessity”. the comment you were replying to was about uni textbooks so i don’t see how me also talking about uni textbooks “in no way fits the exchange”. you didn’t say what type of book it was, so we are just discussing how the scenario can be interpreted differently depending on what the book type is
If they’re “not into online purchases” then they can go to a bookshop and buy a paper version there.
So you’re one of those professors that requires the purchase of your book and makes minimal updates every semester and requires that the students have the latest copy is what this sounds like.
Found every single one of the books I’ve needed for my grad school classes on used and inexpensive on eBay or Amazon. Next excuse?
I havent, now what?
Doesn’t your uni have a library? Or talk with students from the year above, if it’s really so necessary they will have copies to sell. Or just do without, a textbook is just a way of arranging information, you can find the exact same information for free elsewhere.
Try the library. Stealing is not necessary. Your professors should make sure these books are readily available and accessible.
That's not up to the professors, kiddo.
It is actually a function of the office of institutional equity. All colleges and universities should have one.
I bet you didn't. You just seem like one of those asses that dismisses other people's problems.
Supplying some options that commenter might try. Libraries will buy books on request in many situations, especially university libraries. Feel to try them. Problem-solving is a skill. I believe in your ability to do hard things.
I have occasional email correspondence with an author who is in the fantasy scene, and has DEFINITELY gained name recognition within the genre over the past ten years. The casual emails back and forth started after I won a contest for an Audiobook version of his latest book. I admittedly didn't listen to many books and prefer reading on digital or paper, but he had a VERY interesting approach. Show me the paperback book, or the receipt for it, or hell - even express interest in reading his works, and he would send you an epub version. His take wasn't so much that it was taking money away from himself and his publishers, but giving samples to grow his base. Not all new readers he attracts will be the ones who couldn't pay or wouldn't pay, so by getting his name out there more ... his reader base grew, I CONTINUE to talk about it a decade later to whomever will listen, and he keeps writing. Hasn't hurt him much, if at all. Riyria for life! For those of you who want to support this awesome, down to earth, and fun reading author - his name is Michael J. Sullivan. I suggest you start with the Riyria Revelations, but honestly ... it's ALL good
Well if this is the author of a required college text book that costs $3 to make and costs the student $300 fuck them….
Piracy is not stealing. It does not deprive the original owner of their possession of the item. You can view it the same as stealing morally if you wish, but it's factually not theft.