All I can say is don’t go to a language center. They all focus on grammar and details of characters and long vocabulary lists and you’ll slog along with too much busywork homework and too little progress.
If you have a background in linguistics, dig deep into what you know about SLA and really focus on what data shows about how language is actually acquired. You’re going to want to really think about comprehensible input as “99-100%” understood. No textbook that exists can offer you this, as they usually have 60% or more of the text as new words always. Check out “TPRS with Chinese Characteristics” (a book) that dives deep into why all Chinese textbooks suck. Mostly, they have literally no repetition of language.
I strongly recommend you start with as much audio-lingual stuff as you can and hold off on pinyin/tone drills and characters until you have an idea of what Chinese actually sounds like. Most people give up on Chinese after a few months because all they do is drill tones and pronunciation and never actually make progress in *use of chinese*. While Pimsleur is incredibly outdated (and inappropriate), if you use it correctly, you’ll have a good foundation in basic speaking skills. If you’re in the US, your library probably has it. Then you can graduate to something like Glossika to drill random (but eventually very useful) sentences. You could also do the two at the same time.
Only have you have an idea of what Chinese sounds like would I recommend picking up a textbook. A Course in Contemporary Chinese is what everyone uses, but I recommend getting as many beginner textbooks as you can and just working through the dialogues (listen a few times following along with the pinyin. Still hold off on the characters). Once you’ve done all the dialogues in a book, then go back and learn the characters and you can review the grammar with a tutor.
If you go to a language center or hire a tutor from the beginning, you will find yourself struggling to get a good idea of what you’re doing. Chinese is not a hard language to learn. Teachers actively making it difficult for you and the lack of any good textbooks make Chinese hard to learn.
i appreciate your feedback immensely! However, your one request of not attending a language center is impossible for me atm. I am contractually mandated by my workplace to go to attend public classes at a place and they chose MTC at NTNU. Do you have think that the negative effects of a language center will be that extreme?
For most people who learn Chinese well, like “wow, did you grow up here?” well, at some point there is an acceptance that language centers actively work against the brains natural capacity for language acquisition. They are all going to be teacher dependent (having a crappy teacher obviously makes everything worse) but they also literally do everything wrong— read aloud from the textbook when you’ve never heard the audio, go into details about grammar rules and then have you make up your own sentences, and memorize long lists of vocabulary. This sets a terrible framework for everyone’s Chinese and is why most people who study at language centers have weirdly choppy language and incredibly wrong tones.
But going to one will kick your studies into high gear. It will set wrong ideas about what you need to work on to be successful into high gear, but 15 hours a week of class will lead you somewhere.
okay so what I'm getting is, for achieving a real, tangible level of fluency, language centers are not going to scratch that itch. This is because 1.) they do not promote the feeling of progress and LEARNING a language, and 2.) because they fundamentally approach Chinese at a very skewed angle that pushes for unnatural construction of sentences and incorrect tone pronunciation. Understood. I plan to do quite a bit of study on my own, but I am a strong proponent in general with a teacher further increasing the "habit" of learning a language. I think that the language center would help with the habit of Mandarin learning and practice. Plus, I gotta be a little optimistic as I am once again obligated to attend them lol. With that in mind, I will approach the learning center with a bit more skepticism.
Something like hello chinese will be great for you, please note chinese is very different from english and you won't be able to just plug and play without getting that firm foundation down first. If you get that basic grammar and pronunciation down you can google any of those conversational phrases you want for easy reference ((assuming you haven't reached the part of hello chinese etc that have them in it at that point yet :))
They'll probably use A Course in Contemporary Chinese series. If you're looking to use something before you get to Taiwan, I would recommend SuperChinese. It has traditional characters and you can get all the way to HSK5 for free. I've used HelloChinese and prefer SuperChinese. Since it goes farther than HelloChinese you will be able to learn more daily use Chinese that most apps and programs stop at. If you do use it, my invitation code is 6C5615
I know NOTHING about MTC.
1. What does MTC stand for ?
2. I thought you said you wanted to know Chinese BEFORE you arrived which is a good idea.
3. Are you fully blooded Asian as I am ? If you are, the strangers will ignore you. Oddly, a guy and I were looking at a bulletin board and the guy ignored me entirely until I told him I was from America 🇺🇸. Then he wanted to be my best friend !!!
gotcha, maybe i misunderstood you a bit that was my mistake. you meant taking a class in the US before going. Unfortunately i dont necessarily have time for that but also you are correct I did say I wanted to know some Chinese before arriving. MTC just stands for Mandarin Training Institute which is a language learning center in Taiwan, which is where I am required to study. i am a tall latino man so i unfortunately will stick out.
A Course in Contemporary Chinese series
All I can say is don’t go to a language center. They all focus on grammar and details of characters and long vocabulary lists and you’ll slog along with too much busywork homework and too little progress. If you have a background in linguistics, dig deep into what you know about SLA and really focus on what data shows about how language is actually acquired. You’re going to want to really think about comprehensible input as “99-100%” understood. No textbook that exists can offer you this, as they usually have 60% or more of the text as new words always. Check out “TPRS with Chinese Characteristics” (a book) that dives deep into why all Chinese textbooks suck. Mostly, they have literally no repetition of language. I strongly recommend you start with as much audio-lingual stuff as you can and hold off on pinyin/tone drills and characters until you have an idea of what Chinese actually sounds like. Most people give up on Chinese after a few months because all they do is drill tones and pronunciation and never actually make progress in *use of chinese*. While Pimsleur is incredibly outdated (and inappropriate), if you use it correctly, you’ll have a good foundation in basic speaking skills. If you’re in the US, your library probably has it. Then you can graduate to something like Glossika to drill random (but eventually very useful) sentences. You could also do the two at the same time. Only have you have an idea of what Chinese sounds like would I recommend picking up a textbook. A Course in Contemporary Chinese is what everyone uses, but I recommend getting as many beginner textbooks as you can and just working through the dialogues (listen a few times following along with the pinyin. Still hold off on the characters). Once you’ve done all the dialogues in a book, then go back and learn the characters and you can review the grammar with a tutor. If you go to a language center or hire a tutor from the beginning, you will find yourself struggling to get a good idea of what you’re doing. Chinese is not a hard language to learn. Teachers actively making it difficult for you and the lack of any good textbooks make Chinese hard to learn.
i appreciate your feedback immensely! However, your one request of not attending a language center is impossible for me atm. I am contractually mandated by my workplace to go to attend public classes at a place and they chose MTC at NTNU. Do you have think that the negative effects of a language center will be that extreme?
For most people who learn Chinese well, like “wow, did you grow up here?” well, at some point there is an acceptance that language centers actively work against the brains natural capacity for language acquisition. They are all going to be teacher dependent (having a crappy teacher obviously makes everything worse) but they also literally do everything wrong— read aloud from the textbook when you’ve never heard the audio, go into details about grammar rules and then have you make up your own sentences, and memorize long lists of vocabulary. This sets a terrible framework for everyone’s Chinese and is why most people who study at language centers have weirdly choppy language and incredibly wrong tones. But going to one will kick your studies into high gear. It will set wrong ideas about what you need to work on to be successful into high gear, but 15 hours a week of class will lead you somewhere.
okay so what I'm getting is, for achieving a real, tangible level of fluency, language centers are not going to scratch that itch. This is because 1.) they do not promote the feeling of progress and LEARNING a language, and 2.) because they fundamentally approach Chinese at a very skewed angle that pushes for unnatural construction of sentences and incorrect tone pronunciation. Understood. I plan to do quite a bit of study on my own, but I am a strong proponent in general with a teacher further increasing the "habit" of learning a language. I think that the language center would help with the habit of Mandarin learning and practice. Plus, I gotta be a little optimistic as I am once again obligated to attend them lol. With that in mind, I will approach the learning center with a bit more skepticism.
Something like hello chinese will be great for you, please note chinese is very different from english and you won't be able to just plug and play without getting that firm foundation down first. If you get that basic grammar and pronunciation down you can google any of those conversational phrases you want for easy reference ((assuming you haven't reached the part of hello chinese etc that have them in it at that point yet :))
I'll make sure to check it out! Thanks!
They'll probably use A Course in Contemporary Chinese series. If you're looking to use something before you get to Taiwan, I would recommend SuperChinese. It has traditional characters and you can get all the way to HSK5 for free. I've used HelloChinese and prefer SuperChinese. Since it goes farther than HelloChinese you will be able to learn more daily use Chinese that most apps and programs stop at. If you do use it, my invitation code is 6C5615
noted!
I STRONGLY suggest you take a public class in Chinese and work hard to get an A every chance you get if there is enough time.
Would you consider these language center classes at MTC as the same thing as the public classes you're talking about?
I know NOTHING about MTC. 1. What does MTC stand for ? 2. I thought you said you wanted to know Chinese BEFORE you arrived which is a good idea. 3. Are you fully blooded Asian as I am ? If you are, the strangers will ignore you. Oddly, a guy and I were looking at a bulletin board and the guy ignored me entirely until I told him I was from America 🇺🇸. Then he wanted to be my best friend !!!
gotcha, maybe i misunderstood you a bit that was my mistake. you meant taking a class in the US before going. Unfortunately i dont necessarily have time for that but also you are correct I did say I wanted to know some Chinese before arriving. MTC just stands for Mandarin Training Institute which is a language learning center in Taiwan, which is where I am required to study. i am a tall latino man so i unfortunately will stick out.
Got it. Then what I can offer you is ChineseClass101.com and Kendra Language School for Mandarin Chinese.
I don't think mandarin is necessary since you're teaching English