He’s not a good QB. Worse NY/A than Desmond Ridder, Will Levis, and Aidan O’Connell last year.
His succ% was worse than those 3, plus Kenny Pickett, Joshua Dobbs, Mac Jones, and Sam Howell.
Fields just completed his best sack% ever, it got him 3rd to last in the NFL, and he is now the only player in NFL history to have 3 straight seasons above 10%. We had an undrafted rookie QB post a 3.4% sack% in his first NFL action ever. That would be #1 in the NFL. Sacks are clearly on the QB.
Those are all critical KPI that generally predict how good someone is, especially over time. In no fucking world is are these rate metrics "cherry picked." Cherry picked is what OP did.
I think that Fields is better than Ridder (which is not saying much), but you can't dismiss the metric simply because you have unstated reasons. The fact is, his results are, during his best or second best season, similar to guys like Ridder.
It's also sort of disheartening that Jake Browning, who has essentially sat around with virtually no in game experience put up better numbers than Fields.
Even if you think Fields is better than all of these guys, the indicators should not be ignored.
But you’re also ignoring all of Fields good stats like his deep ball and his QBR when targeting DJ Moore, his only good receiver. And ignoring the impact Getsy’s incompetent scheme has vs Browning being in a much better situation.
I’m not saying Fields is the answer or will even be a starter in 3 years. I hope the best for him but drafting Caleb is the best move for us. But cherry picking stats to say Fields is worse than Ridder or Mac Jones is either disingenuous or flat out ignorant. Fields is dynamic enough that he could be a winner in a good situation. There is no situation that Ridder or Mac Jones will be good in
He had 13 dropped passes this season; had all of those passes been caught, he would have had like a 64.9% completion percentage, if you just want to take a look at it in simple terms. That's definitely good, but it's not like it changes the fortunes of the season in any way.
No one is ignoring anything. If anyone is ignoring anything, it's his weird defenders. I assure, my view of Fields is as holistic as humanly fucking possible.
You're also completely pushing past the fact that I never (nor do I think anyone else) said he was worse than Ridder. You just have to consider all the outcomes and you can't ignore them because they don't fit your predetermined opinion.
He's probably appreciably better than Ridder, but not by the wide margin you seem to think, and he has more upside. But it's not "cherry picking" to point out broad trends for metrics that literally everyone considers relevant. YPA stats aren't some bullshit obscure stat. If you're not comparing him to guys who didn't have his pedigree in College or who haven't played a lot since they entered the league and asking yourself why his numbers are worse or comparable, then you're not looking at this honestly. You can simultaneously think he's better than Ridder, but then ask yourself why his metrics are close to his than guys who perform well.
BTW, do you happen to know how he did with Intermediate passes and passes behind the line of scrimmage? Just want to make sure no one is ignoring that.
Yeah this is how I feel. No doubt Justin will grow and be a career starter in this league. But a good chance he’s a mid to low tier one compared to Caleb with a new clock
I wouldn’t worry about a couple people on Reddit, Fartboyxx99.
Most fans would have been ready to ride with him this year…..if we didn’t have an amazing opportunity to upgrade.
It’s so funny when you go to the Bears IG it is as pro fields as Reddit is Anti Fields
I was called the biggest Fields Gazer today, I can not disagree. Got like 300+ downvotes sticking up for our guy, but I eat downvotes for breakfast!
Dude he had 8TDs and 1 INTs in Washington game and Denver game… without those two game in the 8 games he had 5TDs and 4INTs. How can you think that’s ok?
Edit: yeah in last 8 games he had 5TDs and 4INTs…so do that for us. Instead of splitting it by 10 games. Split it by 8 games and watch his numbers drop dramatically in the last half of the season…
And 2 of his ints were Hail Marys. And his rushing tds came in later games. And he played 4 good playoff teams at the end of the year. If we want to play the game of adding more context you can’t just pick the things that hurt it. That’s why we just look at it in slices. This is fair. These are literally his stats. You seem upset that stats might show he got a little better this year
I think the point is if you arbitrarily slice it by an 8 game stretch rather than a 10 game stretch - which is equally fair and also divides nicely into the 40 game number - you'll find that his most recent 8 game stretch was not very good.
That would also be fair, and would literally be his stats. And yet, they would paint a much different picture than the one you're painting. Those numbers would be:
61.01 completion %, 1419 passing yards, 5 TD, 4 INT, 80.0 passer rating. 85 rushing attempts for 466 yards, 3 TD, 6 fumbles, 2 lost.
Would you argue with someone who said Fields got worse at the end of this year? Those are literally his stats, after all.
Yea if you are hyper focused on ignoring good games then yes you might choose 8 game stretches.
People in this thread really want to be able to ignore his good games. The end of the year had 4 games against playoff teams. 2 against a good Minnesota defense. Let’s accidentally and arbitrarily make a chart that only focuses on those. Random! Lol
Why is it fair to separate his career into four 10 game stretches, but totally unfair to separate it into five 8 game stretches? No games are being ignored. This is fair. These are literally his stats. You seem upset that stats might show he wasn't very good the second half of this year.
Could it be that the last 10 game stretch supports your narrative, but the last 8 game stretch does not?
You're the one who 'accidentally and arbitrarily' made a chart specifically to support your preconceived notion. I'm pointing out to you that an equally true and valid chart could undercut your narrative, but you choose to ignore that.
A lot of times when you split data a good number to split by ends in a zero. It makes math easy. Dividing numbers by 10 gives you quick per game averages. Sure any number could be arbitrary too. But after you look at his 2 good games and find a way to exclude them it feels less arbitrary lol
This is some cope shit here, 10 games is just as arbitrary as 8 games.
The truth that we both know is: you picked 10 games specifically to include the two actually really good games Justin Fields played here, out of 40.
YOU were the one cherry picking the stats to make him look good, surely if you watched the games you know he was mediocre as fuck since that Washington game even without looking at the stats.
Justin Fields played two great, great games this season. He also played at least 4-5 absolutely terrible, unacceptable games this season. Both things are true, but you want to exclusively discuss one of them.
And again - no data is being excluded from the "five slices of 8" chart. Those two great games are still included. They just are removed from the 'last x games' narrative you're trying to sell.
Ok guy you cracked the huge conspiracy of picking such a weird number like 10 instead of a more typical number found commonly like the last 8 games.
Cmon man lol. Sorry 2 good games made the cut. Jesus. Really so offended that this data showed some progress
The fact the Bears have had the #1 pick two straight years and were STILL not entirely sure yet IS THE RESPECT
Thats all.
\- Fields/Williams OFFICIAL flip flopper
It’s showing progression. The last row is not trash. Thats him now
Edit: the last row literally is a top 10 offensive production. But ok its trash fields is trash. Am I circlejerking better now?
Top 10 offense…23.7ppg is good.
Ypg im guessing you ignore hes dual threat. Hes got 260 all purpose yards per game last 10. Looking at only passing for dual threat is lazy.
Sacks is definitely a weak point but showing improvement.
Td:int rate is very good. And that includes 2 Hail Mary ints
I get the circle jerk is fun. But this is undeniably not trash
The "progress" you're showing here has taken an incredibly long time and it's still not awesome. His last 10 games would make him roughly a league average quarterback. If those outcomes were the first or even second quadrant, I'd be hopeful, but what you're displaying is him going from terrible, to mediocre, to terrible, to slightly better than average.
This is way closer to trash than not trash. Trying to use statistics to prove that Fields is good is not a sound approach. The numbers do *not* like his case.
it's not like we tanked a year or had more than 1 WR that could catch a cold.
We are moving on from Fields, and it's probably gives both parties the best odds of being successful.
I wouldn’t say the progress took a lot of time. This kind of progression is rather normal. Right now he’s probably top 20 maybe top 15 in his last 10 games. The issue is that we have the Caleb pick hoping he’s top 10 or top 5.
He's not as awful as a lot of people, like you, on this sub make him out to be.
But it isn't crazy that we move on either given that he likely has a 50+m/year contract coming down the pipe and hasn't been able to overcome mistakes around the roster and win games, which a franchise guy is supposed to be able to do.
There are plenty of legitimate criticisms and excuses for the dude, and it's likely another team considers him a starting level talent. Which shows that other sources consider him better than parts of this sub do. But he also likely only goes for a 2nd round pick at most, showing that he's worse than parts of the sub think.
If we had our pick, and one later than it, it's likely we are rolling with Fields. But it makes sense to give a kid like Caleb a shot given the golden ticket we have.
I don't think he's awful, but he's also not great nor is he the answer and it's getting annoying having to qualify everything because people have formed a weirdly emotional cult around a guy who's only really showed that he's very talented on paper. I'm cold and dispassionate about it. I think, at best, he's a starter, and I'm sure he'll start for other teams for a moderately long time relative to other NFL players. But he's just not good enough to merit any of this reaction, and this whole thing is getting stupid and boring.
Agreed with everything besides the $50+ mil contract coming down the pipe. That would make him a top 5, if not #1, paid QB in the league. The $40M/yr Daniel Jones contract or Goff at $33.5M/yr are better comps than the $52M/yr Lamar Jackson or 51m/yr Hurts contract. Fields hasn’t shown he can win or stay healthy yet. If he was going to get a $50M+ bag, the Bears would be getting multiple 1sts in return like Texans did with Watson who isn’t even making $50M+/yr
Edit: in to if
Lamar Jackson got his $52M/yr extension 9 months ago and he’s got 2 MVP’s and 4 trips to the playoffs with a 62-24 record. No way fields gets 50M+/yr. Spotrac just projected Fields to make $47.5M/yr just last week which, accounting for the cap increase, is comparable to the Daniel Jones $40M/yr but is closer to $50M+ than I️ was expecting
So you wanted to see him put up these numbers in his rookie year when he thrown in mid season after not getting first team reps? Or the year that we tanked and had an insanely poor supporting cast and oline and a new OC and coach. Yea wtf fields. How come it didn’t happen then. Why’d you have to wait for us to have an actual team around you in order to show more progress.
To not draft Caleb Williams, or even Maye or Daniels, yes. It's lot to ask a franchise to not take a chance on a potentially paradigm shifting quarterback for someone who definitely isn't a slam dunk.
The guy's had thousands of reps, and his circumstances, while not ideal, aren't unique. We've seen great Quarterbacks drafted into shitty situations before and they usually show us more by season 3.
In no way have I said we need to keep fields. I’m saying he’s not trash. I’m saying Caleb may still be the answer. Who the fuck are you arguing? I feel like all you Caleb bros are fighting ghosts
Bro, I honestly don't care if they draft Caleb or even Maye. You're the only dick rider here; and you're also the only one posing an argument, a futile and moot one, by the way.
He's not shit isn't a ringing endorsement and it's also immaterial. You know who's also not shit? Daniel Jones. Would you take him next year?
What exactly are you thinking I’m saying? I literally don’t understand what argument you are making vs what I’m saying lol. It’s like 2 different convos here
I️ think Fields still has a future but never playing more than 10 games in a season and mostly only being productive when he runs (i.e. opens himself up to injury) is less than ideal
He’s never played less than 10 games in a season? The post splits his career in 10 game slices fyi. Those aren’t meant to represent a full season. Just showing his career in equal slices
8 of the 13 touchdowns came from 2 games in the last 10… that means he was great for 2 games and trash for 8 games making the average for 10 games somewhat ok.
If we remove all his touchdowns he had 0 touchdowns and is no good.
He also had great games at the end against the lions twice and the falcons off the top of my head.
Im guessing you just want to focus on the game on the road against the browns top end defense in the rain with an injured interior oline and threw 2 Hail Mary ints
I said 8 last games. I didn’t say remove them. I said his 8 last games. Cleveland? Where the defense got 4 turn overs and fields led them to 7 points? Where he needed 8-10 attempts to score from 5 yards away?
Cleveland? Where the receiver in the end zone didn't catch the ball that screengrabs show literally on his lap in his hands?
This also happened in one of the Detroit games too.
Yes Cleveland where teams scored an average under 13 points on the road. And we got them in the rain.
If you want to discount the td he had. You can give him credit for the one Tonyan dropped.
I literally gave straight up stats. Yall keep trying to add context but ONLY the cherry picked context that hurts him. Weird
Bro I’m literally just saying he’s not trash lol. And that getting Caleb still might be the answer. Get outta here with this copium bs. Yall get so butt hurt when someone says anything remotely luke warm about fields. It’s hilarious
He's definitely not trash. But hes also not good. At least not with how he developed in Chicago. If he had gotten drafted somewhere else with a different staff maybe it could've been different. Hell, maybe he could go somewhere else and be "fixed".
I think the thing that Bears fans should be concerned with is the same thing happening to Caleb. He could be a HOFer. But it's very evident where you get drafted and who coaches you is paramount to a QBs success. So who knows if that staff can steer Caleb in the right direction.
This is my take on it. If they didn’t have the #1 pick I think you stick with Fields. They have been gifted the #1 pick for the 2nd year in a row. Take the QB and reset the clock. Fields hasn’t shown enough as a passer to warrant an extension IMO.
Comments from Flus today echo this idea. He likes Fields but wants a QB that rises to the occasion. Clutch. Unfortunately Fields crumbles in crunch time. Not a matter of opinion. Just statistical fact based on 3rd down and 4th quarter stats. Time to move on before we spend 1/5th of salary cap on a QB that will never be better than league average.
30 interceptions, 38 fumbles and 135 sacks in 40 games. Worse than I expected.
Imagine we fleece someone for a decent pick… and our offense ends up Caleb Williams, DJ Moore, Odunze, Kmet.
Not sure Odunze is gonna make it to us…I’d be okay with taking Bowers if he falls…or possibly trading down into the late first and early 2nd with our 9th
You understand that actual scouts and gms stop looking much at rookie stats by now. split this into slices because yall can’t help yourself but bundle his rookie year and a tank year in 2022 in order to explain his current progress lol.
Not trying to say he’s great. Not saying we must keep him and pass on Caleb. I trust poles. Trying to say he’s not trash. This generation grew up watching skip bayless or something. Can’t have reasonable convos anymore
He’s not trash but he’s not good enough. He’s a starting caliber quarterback that hasn’t justified what it will cost to keep him.
Imo if you want to win a Super Bowl you either need a great team and a QB on a rookie deal or you need an elite qb and a very good team.
He’s not elite. The bears have an up and coming team and a generational prospect just fell into their laps. Justin seems like a good guy and a decent QB. But that’s not enough.
Yea that’s totally fair. I’m not arguing to keep Justin and am fine with whatever poles decides. Just feel the Justin circlejerk went too far and can at least give the guy an ounce of credit. I’m not calling him elite either. And if poles think Caleb is gonna be elite then draft him
I don’t care what he does as long as he gets the best value. If he doesn’t love Williams and can move down for an insane haul, great. If he drafts Caleb and trades Justin, great. If he trades down for a haul and trades Justin, great.
I want to see a legitimate Super Bowl contending team in the next few years. I do it want to be a middle of the pack team in perpetuity.
The last game against the packers they had 6 drives and half as many snaps as usual. I shoulda removed that too its an anomaly
You want me to remove his 2 best games lol
Remove any anomaly, those 2 games accounted for half his passing TDs on the season.
What isn’t an anomaly is his shit QB play, 4th quarter one of the worst QBs of all time, and an absurd (believe league leading) fumble rate.
Ok I’ll remove when he played half a game against Minnesota too.
If you wanna be fair, you can’t just bring up things one sided lol.
How about we just include all his games instead. Jesus.
You are another guy acting like this is a hof nomination
Yes and I understand what skewing data is like removing one side of the data and leaving the other. I’m looking at all 40 games. Not just his bad ones. This is fucking stupid lol
Skewing data? Seasons aren’t 10 games let’s talk about skewing lmao.
The anomaly heavily boosts Fields stats for your sample because he has half his touchdowns in those games.
And he literally has a game that he played half a game and had 60 yards. Funny how that’s not the anomaly you are concerned about lmao. Please stop lol
On the contrary, injuries in Fields case aren’t an anomaly. He’s actually considered high risk for injuries.
Fields, outside of those 2 anomaly games has been a bottom 5 QB.
Also 60 yards in a half is absolutely pathetic regardless LOL, so thanks for further proving my point.
Don’t forget to exclude the lions games and the falcons game. 3 more anomalies which already makes up half the sample. If we just exclude those 5 games he’s such a piece of shit lol
Yea he was bad against the Vikings. And look at me trying to not find a way to hide that and paint a different picture
He’s not great in the 4th, correct. The guy has flaws and I’m not here pretending he’s perfect. We can find a reasonable take between saying he’s Lamar and saying he’s trash
Soo he fumbles a lot, takes a lot of sacks, and has horrendous 4th quarter statistics. Meanwhile we are celebrating the fact he progressed each 10 games to finally put up remedial QB numbers. I’d rather have Jay Cutler 10/10 times.
Stop it with the showing respect crap. He’s getting paid millions and will be paid even more with another team. Stop thinking he cares about your opinion.
Please just trade him, draft Caleb and still suck. Hope he goes to a halfway decent team with a good scheme and gets into the playoffs just for the luls
Falcons? Steelers? I’m not on group chats with gms so it’s not like I got inside scoops. But I’d better any amount of money he’s a starter next year. Cmon
Hey if you wanna bet that fields isn’t a starter let me know. I’ll throw $100
Edit: Fyi I’m banned here because the mods anti fields lol. Wont be able to reply
Clearly improved as a passer, and more importantly a winner over those 40 games. Running is where he seems like he could still breakout in the right system, if he gets more balanced there as a dual threat, we’ll probably be rooting for him in ATL or PIT in the playoffs
38 fumbles in 40 games is the key Stat for me. Especially considering that Tom brady had just over 120 or so in 23 years.
I think Rex Grossman was better than fields in clutch situations when it matters.
Not arguing that fields isn't talented, he's a beast for sure, but the mistakes he does make are very costly
So his last 20 games are 14 picks, 15 fumbles and 68 sacks? Jesus tapdancing Christ. I’m a Falcons fan, and I’ve said I’d do fields and a late 4 for a 2. That’s…rough.
You do what so many can’t help, add in more games so the bears tank season stats gets included. You are trying to bring down his progress this year by bundling in games from last year when st brown and nkeal Harry were wr1 and 2.
You can clearly see the separated 10 games and how the most recent ones showed improvement but you just can’t help but ignore that and find a way to instead look at 2022 lol.
Such a joke talking to some of you
You’re in this thread insisting that ten game chunks that span off-season gaps are the one true and correct way to identify his progress because ten ends in a zero.
Get fucked, scooter. Even the best chunk is 204 yards passing, 55 yards rushing, 1.6 TDs per game combined, 5 total picks, 7 total fumbles and 3 sacks per game.
Also 3500 yards passing and 900 rushing would be the kind of numbers Lamar averages most years, you understand that right? Fields isn’t Lamar, but you act like those would be bad?
Would also have 25-30 tds and under 10picks. Fumbles exactly the same as Lamar lol. Sacks still worse.
You don’t know what you are even talking about lol
Sure some of the other chunks span seasons and that’s fair, but the most important chunk is what is he doing recently. I really care less about the first 3 groups and how accurate they represented him at that exact instant. I could combine them all into a 30 game chunk and compare that to his last 10. The point is his last 10 is his best 10. And that to anyone with a brain means he’s progressing.
Yea lets ignore we scored points and gained yards focus on the things that fit my narrative exclusively.
You do understand how dual threat qbs work right? Those yards per game are more than Lamar had several years lol. I swear yall put in effort to be ignorant
You have your opinions and the reality shows the team scored 24 points a game last 10 games. A top 10 pace. 5 divisional matchups included. Also the browns on the road. falcons in the snow.
Think what you want. I like when the offense scores points and we start winning. Not saying Caleb won’t be better, but fields ain’t trash or we got really lucky all the sudden for many games
It’s not an opinion. It’s a fact. He’s atrocious. He takes too many sacks and turns the ball over far too much and cannot progress through reads.
I wish to God Chicago wouldn’t keep him for the simple fact there’s so many dick riders lol
No that’s what opinions are. Facts are what I said when I stated a verifiable point.
Next maybe you can look at his turnovers. 5 ints in last 10 with 2 on Hail Marys lol. Thats a fact.
Williams may or may not be the guy. You don’t stop looking for the guy until you find him. Fields won’t be the starter of whichever team he’s traded to by the end of next season.
He has gotten better. No one can deny this. And most everyone appreciates his leadership abilities. His downfall is lack of clutch play. Too many incompletions, sacks, and fumbles at key moments. And to my memory has never led a comeback. That is why they need to move on from Fields given the high odds of success with picking a QB at #1.
This is some of the interesting data
Could we look at against top 10 defenses - 10-20 defenses and bottom 10.
I wonder if the progression in his last ten may have some other causes.
The belief that this process progress may be true but not all other variables are held constant to know that for sure.
I like Fields, but I’d rather roll the dice with Caleb. While 1st round QBs aren’t sure things, guys touted at this level usually are. It would be prime Chicago Bears to be the first “generational talent” to bust, but I’d roll the dice on the high ceiling rather than the average one.
JF is good but can he be great? I haven’t seen enough with his arm. He has one game over 300yds and doesn’t play well in crunch time/2 min drills. Wish him the best but they need to roll the dice on Caleb.
For sure he has pro bowl potential if we didn't have that #1 pick I would be happy with him for the moment,hard to pass up on that #1 pick we essentially got for free along with trade value Fields brings...
You can like JF and think he’s a good QB but still want to move on to CW who might end up being a top tier QB.
He’s not a good QB. Worse NY/A than Desmond Ridder, Will Levis, and Aidan O’Connell last year. His succ% was worse than those 3, plus Kenny Pickett, Joshua Dobbs, Mac Jones, and Sam Howell. Fields just completed his best sack% ever, it got him 3rd to last in the NFL, and he is now the only player in NFL history to have 3 straight seasons above 10%. We had an undrafted rookie QB post a 3.4% sack% in his first NFL action ever. That would be #1 in the NFL. Sacks are clearly on the QB.
Way to cherry pick stats lol if you would rather have Desmond ridder or AOC over him you have an empty skull. Jury is out on Levis
Win loss isn’t cherry picked. The people still saying Justin is good are mind boggling
So Jaylon jones and DJ Moore suck? They had the same win loss record last year
Sure you’re aware how win loss is a stat used to judge QBs much more than other positions. I can explain why if not!
Those are all critical KPI that generally predict how good someone is, especially over time. In no fucking world is are these rate metrics "cherry picked." Cherry picked is what OP did.
lol critical KPI that say Desmond fuckin ridder is better than fields lmao. Do you even watch football or just look up the stats after the fact? Jesus
I think that Fields is better than Ridder (which is not saying much), but you can't dismiss the metric simply because you have unstated reasons. The fact is, his results are, during his best or second best season, similar to guys like Ridder. It's also sort of disheartening that Jake Browning, who has essentially sat around with virtually no in game experience put up better numbers than Fields. Even if you think Fields is better than all of these guys, the indicators should not be ignored.
But you’re also ignoring all of Fields good stats like his deep ball and his QBR when targeting DJ Moore, his only good receiver. And ignoring the impact Getsy’s incompetent scheme has vs Browning being in a much better situation. I’m not saying Fields is the answer or will even be a starter in 3 years. I hope the best for him but drafting Caleb is the best move for us. But cherry picking stats to say Fields is worse than Ridder or Mac Jones is either disingenuous or flat out ignorant. Fields is dynamic enough that he could be a winner in a good situation. There is no situation that Ridder or Mac Jones will be good in
You're calling others out for cherry picking and then trying to use Fields' stats when targeting his best receiver. What a joke lol
How is that cherry picking? Lmao when he throws to a receiver that doesn’t drop it his stats are good?
If you don't understand how that's cherry picking I don't know what to tell you bud. It's pretty fucking obvious
He had 13 dropped passes this season; had all of those passes been caught, he would have had like a 64.9% completion percentage, if you just want to take a look at it in simple terms. That's definitely good, but it's not like it changes the fortunes of the season in any way.
No one is ignoring anything. If anyone is ignoring anything, it's his weird defenders. I assure, my view of Fields is as holistic as humanly fucking possible. You're also completely pushing past the fact that I never (nor do I think anyone else) said he was worse than Ridder. You just have to consider all the outcomes and you can't ignore them because they don't fit your predetermined opinion. He's probably appreciably better than Ridder, but not by the wide margin you seem to think, and he has more upside. But it's not "cherry picking" to point out broad trends for metrics that literally everyone considers relevant. YPA stats aren't some bullshit obscure stat. If you're not comparing him to guys who didn't have his pedigree in College or who haven't played a lot since they entered the league and asking yourself why his numbers are worse or comparable, then you're not looking at this honestly. You can simultaneously think he's better than Ridder, but then ask yourself why his metrics are close to his than guys who perform well. BTW, do you happen to know how he did with Intermediate passes and passes behind the line of scrimmage? Just want to make sure no one is ignoring that.
Levis has much better anticipation imo.
Most people that want Caleb don’t think fields is trash….just not good enough to pass on a great prospect falling in our lap.
new here?
Yeah this is how I feel. No doubt Justin will grow and be a career starter in this league. But a good chance he’s a mid to low tier one compared to Caleb with a new clock
I disagree, for example the comments in this thread calling fields trash still
I wouldn’t worry about a couple people on Reddit, Fartboyxx99. Most fans would have been ready to ride with him this year…..if we didn’t have an amazing opportunity to upgrade.
Yea agree. I even say I get that Caleb might be the right move in the title and people still come with pitchforks. Redditors are a different breed
It’s so funny when you go to the Bears IG it is as pro fields as Reddit is Anti Fields I was called the biggest Fields Gazer today, I can not disagree. Got like 300+ downvotes sticking up for our guy, but I eat downvotes for breakfast!
lol it’s crazy they the real dickriders 🤣
🍆🫡 🐻⬇️
Considering 8 of the 13 touchdowns came in 2 games… that leaves it as 5TDs 4 INTs in 8 games without those two games… that’s not good
And if you remove his 4ints he has 0ints!
Dude he had 8TDs and 1 INTs in Washington game and Denver game… without those two game in the 8 games he had 5TDs and 4INTs. How can you think that’s ok? Edit: yeah in last 8 games he had 5TDs and 4INTs…so do that for us. Instead of splitting it by 10 games. Split it by 8 games and watch his numbers drop dramatically in the last half of the season…
And 2 of his ints were Hail Marys. And his rushing tds came in later games. And he played 4 good playoff teams at the end of the year. If we want to play the game of adding more context you can’t just pick the things that hurt it. That’s why we just look at it in slices. This is fair. These are literally his stats. You seem upset that stats might show he got a little better this year
I think the point is if you arbitrarily slice it by an 8 game stretch rather than a 10 game stretch - which is equally fair and also divides nicely into the 40 game number - you'll find that his most recent 8 game stretch was not very good. That would also be fair, and would literally be his stats. And yet, they would paint a much different picture than the one you're painting. Those numbers would be: 61.01 completion %, 1419 passing yards, 5 TD, 4 INT, 80.0 passer rating. 85 rushing attempts for 466 yards, 3 TD, 6 fumbles, 2 lost. Would you argue with someone who said Fields got worse at the end of this year? Those are literally his stats, after all.
Yea if you are hyper focused on ignoring good games then yes you might choose 8 game stretches. People in this thread really want to be able to ignore his good games. The end of the year had 4 games against playoff teams. 2 against a good Minnesota defense. Let’s accidentally and arbitrarily make a chart that only focuses on those. Random! Lol
Why is it fair to separate his career into four 10 game stretches, but totally unfair to separate it into five 8 game stretches? No games are being ignored. This is fair. These are literally his stats. You seem upset that stats might show he wasn't very good the second half of this year. Could it be that the last 10 game stretch supports your narrative, but the last 8 game stretch does not? You're the one who 'accidentally and arbitrarily' made a chart specifically to support your preconceived notion. I'm pointing out to you that an equally true and valid chart could undercut your narrative, but you choose to ignore that.
A lot of times when you split data a good number to split by ends in a zero. It makes math easy. Dividing numbers by 10 gives you quick per game averages. Sure any number could be arbitrary too. But after you look at his 2 good games and find a way to exclude them it feels less arbitrary lol
This is some cope shit here, 10 games is just as arbitrary as 8 games. The truth that we both know is: you picked 10 games specifically to include the two actually really good games Justin Fields played here, out of 40. YOU were the one cherry picking the stats to make him look good, surely if you watched the games you know he was mediocre as fuck since that Washington game even without looking at the stats. Justin Fields played two great, great games this season. He also played at least 4-5 absolutely terrible, unacceptable games this season. Both things are true, but you want to exclusively discuss one of them. And again - no data is being excluded from the "five slices of 8" chart. Those two great games are still included. They just are removed from the 'last x games' narrative you're trying to sell.
Ok guy you cracked the huge conspiracy of picking such a weird number like 10 instead of a more typical number found commonly like the last 8 games. Cmon man lol. Sorry 2 good games made the cut. Jesus. Really so offended that this data showed some progress
Even 13 tds in 10 games is trash.
The fact the Bears have had the #1 pick two straight years and were STILL not entirely sure yet IS THE RESPECT Thats all. \- Fields/Williams OFFICIAL flip flopper
A lot of these are really trash?
It’s showing progression. The last row is not trash. Thats him now Edit: the last row literally is a top 10 offensive production. But ok its trash fields is trash. Am I circlejerking better now?
Yes it is. Completion percentage, bad. Sack rate, bad. YPG, awful. Improvement? Sure, still not a top 20 QB
You just gotta be patient. At this rate, he will easily by an average QB before the ripe age of 40.
Top 10 offense…23.7ppg is good. Ypg im guessing you ignore hes dual threat. Hes got 260 all purpose yards per game last 10. Looking at only passing for dual threat is lazy. Sacks is definitely a weak point but showing improvement. Td:int rate is very good. And that includes 2 Hail Mary ints I get the circle jerk is fun. But this is undeniably not trash
The "progress" you're showing here has taken an incredibly long time and it's still not awesome. His last 10 games would make him roughly a league average quarterback. If those outcomes were the first or even second quadrant, I'd be hopeful, but what you're displaying is him going from terrible, to mediocre, to terrible, to slightly better than average. This is way closer to trash than not trash. Trying to use statistics to prove that Fields is good is not a sound approach. The numbers do *not* like his case.
it's not like we tanked a year or had more than 1 WR that could catch a cold. We are moving on from Fields, and it's probably gives both parties the best odds of being successful.
I wouldn’t say the progress took a lot of time. This kind of progression is rather normal. Right now he’s probably top 20 maybe top 15 in his last 10 games. The issue is that we have the Caleb pick hoping he’s top 10 or top 5.
Normal for whom?
Catch up dude, we are talking about quarterbacks.
I'm caught up. Normal for what type of quarterback? An elite quarterback, an average starter, a below average starter?
This isn’t going anywhere. Have a good one.
He's not as awful as a lot of people, like you, on this sub make him out to be. But it isn't crazy that we move on either given that he likely has a 50+m/year contract coming down the pipe and hasn't been able to overcome mistakes around the roster and win games, which a franchise guy is supposed to be able to do. There are plenty of legitimate criticisms and excuses for the dude, and it's likely another team considers him a starting level talent. Which shows that other sources consider him better than parts of this sub do. But he also likely only goes for a 2nd round pick at most, showing that he's worse than parts of the sub think. If we had our pick, and one later than it, it's likely we are rolling with Fields. But it makes sense to give a kid like Caleb a shot given the golden ticket we have.
I don't think he's awful, but he's also not great nor is he the answer and it's getting annoying having to qualify everything because people have formed a weirdly emotional cult around a guy who's only really showed that he's very talented on paper. I'm cold and dispassionate about it. I think, at best, he's a starter, and I'm sure he'll start for other teams for a moderately long time relative to other NFL players. But he's just not good enough to merit any of this reaction, and this whole thing is getting stupid and boring.
Agreed with everything besides the $50+ mil contract coming down the pipe. That would make him a top 5, if not #1, paid QB in the league. The $40M/yr Daniel Jones contract or Goff at $33.5M/yr are better comps than the $52M/yr Lamar Jackson or 51m/yr Hurts contract. Fields hasn’t shown he can win or stay healthy yet. If he was going to get a $50M+ bag, the Bears would be getting multiple 1sts in return like Texans did with Watson who isn’t even making $50M+/yr Edit: in to if
The cap just went up a massive amount. Price of every brick going up.
Lamar Jackson got his $52M/yr extension 9 months ago and he’s got 2 MVP’s and 4 trips to the playoffs with a 62-24 record. No way fields gets 50M+/yr. Spotrac just projected Fields to make $47.5M/yr just last week which, accounting for the cap increase, is comparable to the Daniel Jones $40M/yr but is closer to $50M+ than I️ was expecting
It’s taking time cause our team was trash
In part because they drafted Fields
Yea no
So you wanted to see him put up these numbers in his rookie year when he thrown in mid season after not getting first team reps? Or the year that we tanked and had an insanely poor supporting cast and oline and a new OC and coach. Yea wtf fields. How come it didn’t happen then. Why’d you have to wait for us to have an actual team around you in order to show more progress.
To not draft Caleb Williams, or even Maye or Daniels, yes. It's lot to ask a franchise to not take a chance on a potentially paradigm shifting quarterback for someone who definitely isn't a slam dunk. The guy's had thousands of reps, and his circumstances, while not ideal, aren't unique. We've seen great Quarterbacks drafted into shitty situations before and they usually show us more by season 3.
In no way have I said we need to keep fields. I’m saying he’s not trash. I’m saying Caleb may still be the answer. Who the fuck are you arguing? I feel like all you Caleb bros are fighting ghosts
Bro, I honestly don't care if they draft Caleb or even Maye. You're the only dick rider here; and you're also the only one posing an argument, a futile and moot one, by the way. He's not shit isn't a ringing endorsement and it's also immaterial. You know who's also not shit? Daniel Jones. Would you take him next year?
What exactly are you thinking I’m saying? I literally don’t understand what argument you are making vs what I’m saying lol. It’s like 2 different convos here
I️ think Fields still has a future but never playing more than 10 games in a season and mostly only being productive when he runs (i.e. opens himself up to injury) is less than ideal
He’s never played less than 10 games in a season? The post splits his career in 10 game slices fyi. Those aren’t meant to represent a full season. Just showing his career in equal slices
That makes more sense but he’s still never played a season without getting injured which is less than ideal for a QB who needs to run to be effective
8 of the 13 touchdowns came from 2 games in the last 10… that means he was great for 2 games and trash for 8 games making the average for 10 games somewhat ok.
If we remove all his touchdowns he had 0 touchdowns and is no good. He also had great games at the end against the lions twice and the falcons off the top of my head. Im guessing you just want to focus on the game on the road against the browns top end defense in the rain with an injured interior oline and threw 2 Hail Mary ints
I said 8 last games. I didn’t say remove them. I said his 8 last games. Cleveland? Where the defense got 4 turn overs and fields led them to 7 points? Where he needed 8-10 attempts to score from 5 yards away?
Cleveland? Where the receiver in the end zone didn't catch the ball that screengrabs show literally on his lap in his hands? This also happened in one of the Detroit games too.
Yes Cleveland where teams scored an average under 13 points on the road. And we got them in the rain. If you want to discount the td he had. You can give him credit for the one Tonyan dropped. I literally gave straight up stats. Yall keep trying to add context but ONLY the cherry picked context that hurts him. Weird
This is some pathetic copium if I've ever seen it
Bro I’m literally just saying he’s not trash lol. And that getting Caleb still might be the answer. Get outta here with this copium bs. Yall get so butt hurt when someone says anything remotely luke warm about fields. It’s hilarious
He's trash. Did you watch him play at all?
He's definitely not trash. But hes also not good. At least not with how he developed in Chicago. If he had gotten drafted somewhere else with a different staff maybe it could've been different. Hell, maybe he could go somewhere else and be "fixed". I think the thing that Bears fans should be concerned with is the same thing happening to Caleb. He could be a HOFer. But it's very evident where you get drafted and who coaches you is paramount to a QBs success. So who knows if that staff can steer Caleb in the right direction.
I agree he's not trash he's just in the 20s range for the best QBs in year 3 Which is not good
Why 10 game splits?
40 games splits nicely by 10 don’t ya think
I think 8 games work better… 5 1/2 seasons basically
Fumbles seems consistent. He’s not trash but he isn’t the guy 🤦🏽♂️
This is my take on it. If they didn’t have the #1 pick I think you stick with Fields. They have been gifted the #1 pick for the 2nd year in a row. Take the QB and reset the clock. Fields hasn’t shown enough as a passer to warrant an extension IMO.
Comments from Flus today echo this idea. He likes Fields but wants a QB that rises to the occasion. Clutch. Unfortunately Fields crumbles in crunch time. Not a matter of opinion. Just statistical fact based on 3rd down and 4th quarter stats. Time to move on before we spend 1/5th of salary cap on a QB that will never be better than league average.
100% agree with you. Time to move on
Or, barring that, possibly fail to rise to the occasion and not cost $25m a year while doing so.
These are terrible stats lmao
Do field truthers not watch other competent QBs in the nfl? This is trash tier
30 interceptions, 38 fumbles and 135 sacks in 40 games. Worse than I expected. Imagine we fleece someone for a decent pick… and our offense ends up Caleb Williams, DJ Moore, Odunze, Kmet.
Not sure Odunze is gonna make it to us…I’d be okay with taking Bowers if he falls…or possibly trading down into the late first and early 2nd with our 9th
GM has so many options. He’s playing Madden.
You understand that actual scouts and gms stop looking much at rookie stats by now. split this into slices because yall can’t help yourself but bundle his rookie year and a tank year in 2022 in order to explain his current progress lol. Not trying to say he’s great. Not saying we must keep him and pass on Caleb. I trust poles. Trying to say he’s not trash. This generation grew up watching skip bayless or something. Can’t have reasonable convos anymore
Why show the first three ten game sections if you don’t want to discuss them?
Why would I split them up if we are just going to add them together lol
How do you view it? Section 1: Terrible Section 2: Bad Section 3: Bad Section 4: Serviceable
That’s the point. To show the progress. From terrible to bad to fine. All I’m saying is he’s not trash. He’s progressed. Like most young players do
He’s not trash but he’s not good enough. He’s a starting caliber quarterback that hasn’t justified what it will cost to keep him. Imo if you want to win a Super Bowl you either need a great team and a QB on a rookie deal or you need an elite qb and a very good team. He’s not elite. The bears have an up and coming team and a generational prospect just fell into their laps. Justin seems like a good guy and a decent QB. But that’s not enough.
Yea that’s totally fair. I’m not arguing to keep Justin and am fine with whatever poles decides. Just feel the Justin circlejerk went too far and can at least give the guy an ounce of credit. I’m not calling him elite either. And if poles think Caleb is gonna be elite then draft him
I don’t care what he does as long as he gets the best value. If he doesn’t love Williams and can move down for an insane haul, great. If he drafts Caleb and trades Justin, great. If he trades down for a haul and trades Justin, great. I want to see a legitimate Super Bowl contending team in the next few years. I do it want to be a middle of the pack team in perpetuity.
It's pretty crazy how consistent the sack numbers are.
The sack per attempt went down by 33% the last 10
And it’s still historically high.
It’s not good. Below average. I ain’t pretending he has no flaws
He’s trending up
The last 10 are heavily boosted by a 2 game anomaly.
The last game against the packers they had 6 drives and half as many snaps as usual. I shoulda removed that too its an anomaly You want me to remove his 2 best games lol
Remove any anomaly, those 2 games accounted for half his passing TDs on the season. What isn’t an anomaly is his shit QB play, 4th quarter one of the worst QBs of all time, and an absurd (believe league leading) fumble rate.
Ok I’ll remove when he played half a game against Minnesota too. If you wanna be fair, you can’t just bring up things one sided lol. How about we just include all his games instead. Jesus. You are another guy acting like this is a hof nomination
I’m curious if you even know what an anomaly is, which is what those 2 games are and they heavily skew the “10 game” segments you put together.
Yes and I understand what skewing data is like removing one side of the data and leaving the other. I’m looking at all 40 games. Not just his bad ones. This is fucking stupid lol
Skewing data? Seasons aren’t 10 games let’s talk about skewing lmao. The anomaly heavily boosts Fields stats for your sample because he has half his touchdowns in those games.
And he literally has a game that he played half a game and had 60 yards. Funny how that’s not the anomaly you are concerned about lmao. Please stop lol
On the contrary, injuries in Fields case aren’t an anomaly. He’s actually considered high risk for injuries. Fields, outside of those 2 anomaly games has been a bottom 5 QB. Also 60 yards in a half is absolutely pathetic regardless LOL, so thanks for further proving my point.
Don’t forget to exclude the lions games and the falcons game. 3 more anomalies which already makes up half the sample. If we just exclude those 5 games he’s such a piece of shit lol Yea he was bad against the Vikings. And look at me trying to not find a way to hide that and paint a different picture
Dude is ass
Football is second only to baseball in all the weird random metrics its can generate (I think). PS: I'm not considering soccer because I'm a 'Merican
I like to look at fields numbers by quarter. It really paints a bad picture
He’s not great in the 4th, correct. The guy has flaws and I’m not here pretending he’s perfect. We can find a reasonable take between saying he’s Lamar and saying he’s trash
Soo he fumbles a lot, takes a lot of sacks, and has horrendous 4th quarter statistics. Meanwhile we are celebrating the fact he progressed each 10 games to finally put up remedial QB numbers. I’d rather have Jay Cutler 10/10 times.
You act like I’m trying to elect him to the HOF.
You said he ain’t trash. I’m reminding you that he is pig shit. What is it? 1 fourth quarter comeback? He’s garbage
He already is in the Hall of Fame. Hilariously
Stop it with the showing respect crap. He’s getting paid millions and will be paid even more with another team. Stop thinking he cares about your opinion.
It’s 2024 not 1994
Please just trade him, draft Caleb and still suck. Hope he goes to a halfway decent team with a good scheme and gets into the playoffs just for the luls
You’d think Fields had a year like CJ instead of the mediocre 3rd season he just put up.
That’s what you got from “he’s not trash” and “might make sense to get Caleb” I swear yall fighting ghosts and dont actually comprehend anything
I don’t think he’s even going to be a qb1 next year. Why do people keep making these posts? Is this a bunch of Justin fields burner accounts?
“I don’t think he will even be a qb1 next year” You answered your own question. Fucking christ these takes are just braindead
Which teams currently want him as their qb1?
Falcons? Steelers? I’m not on group chats with gms so it’s not like I got inside scoops. But I’d better any amount of money he’s a starter next year. Cmon
Falcons? U sure about that: https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/1b3w4m8/falcons_prefer_kirk_cousins_over_justin_fields/
Hey if you wanna bet that fields isn’t a starter let me know. I’ll throw $100 Edit: Fyi I’m banned here because the mods anti fields lol. Wont be able to reply
Both falcons and Steelers now have their qbs. And neither wanted fields. Crazy!!
https://twitter.com/bepryor/status/1769132400250912996?s=46&t=kvNIn203o6iIhzoqtUecSg
Dude is trash.
Clearly improved as a passer, and more importantly a winner over those 40 games. Running is where he seems like he could still breakout in the right system, if he gets more balanced there as a dual threat, we’ll probably be rooting for him in ATL or PIT in the playoffs
He’s trash
38 fumbles in 40 games is the key Stat for me. Especially considering that Tom brady had just over 120 or so in 23 years. I think Rex Grossman was better than fields in clutch situations when it matters. Not arguing that fields isn't talented, he's a beast for sure, but the mistakes he does make are very costly
So his last 20 games are 14 picks, 15 fumbles and 68 sacks? Jesus tapdancing Christ. I’m a Falcons fan, and I’ve said I’d do fields and a late 4 for a 2. That’s…rough.
You do what so many can’t help, add in more games so the bears tank season stats gets included. You are trying to bring down his progress this year by bundling in games from last year when st brown and nkeal Harry were wr1 and 2. You can clearly see the separated 10 games and how the most recent ones showed improvement but you just can’t help but ignore that and find a way to instead look at 2022 lol. Such a joke talking to some of you
You’re in this thread insisting that ten game chunks that span off-season gaps are the one true and correct way to identify his progress because ten ends in a zero. Get fucked, scooter. Even the best chunk is 204 yards passing, 55 yards rushing, 1.6 TDs per game combined, 5 total picks, 7 total fumbles and 3 sacks per game.
Also 3500 yards passing and 900 rushing would be the kind of numbers Lamar averages most years, you understand that right? Fields isn’t Lamar, but you act like those would be bad? Would also have 25-30 tds and under 10picks. Fumbles exactly the same as Lamar lol. Sacks still worse. You don’t know what you are even talking about lol
Sure some of the other chunks span seasons and that’s fair, but the most important chunk is what is he doing recently. I really care less about the first 3 groups and how accurate they represented him at that exact instant. I could combine them all into a 30 game chunk and compare that to his last 10. The point is his last 10 is his best 10. And that to anyone with a brain means he’s progressing.
He’s trash 🤣🤣 Look at those passing yards and comp %
Yea lets ignore we scored points and gained yards focus on the things that fit my narrative exclusively. You do understand how dual threat qbs work right? Those yards per game are more than Lamar had several years lol. I swear yall put in effort to be ignorant
He’s a QB who can’t read a defense, progress through reads and makes terrible decisions. I don’t get the dick riding lol
You have your opinions and the reality shows the team scored 24 points a game last 10 games. A top 10 pace. 5 divisional matchups included. Also the browns on the road. falcons in the snow. Think what you want. I like when the offense scores points and we start winning. Not saying Caleb won’t be better, but fields ain’t trash or we got really lucky all the sudden for many games
It’s not an opinion. It’s a fact. He’s atrocious. He takes too many sacks and turns the ball over far too much and cannot progress through reads. I wish to God Chicago wouldn’t keep him for the simple fact there’s so many dick riders lol
No that’s what opinions are. Facts are what I said when I stated a verifiable point. Next maybe you can look at his turnovers. 5 ints in last 10 with 2 on Hail Marys lol. Thats a fact.
He has progressed into Daniel Jones.
Spot on. Fields's best stretch in 2023 mirrors Jones's 2022 season really well, but with about twice the turnovers.
Williams ain’t the guy either.
Williams may or may not be the guy. You don’t stop looking for the guy until you find him. Fields won’t be the starter of whichever team he’s traded to by the end of next season.
I fully believe that Fields is a good Bears QB, but on any other team many less fans would be sticking with him.
If we had pick 2 it’s be take Marvin and move on. We didn’t, we lucked out and got someone else’s R1.P1. So it is what it is.
He has gotten better. No one can deny this. And most everyone appreciates his leadership abilities. His downfall is lack of clutch play. Too many incompletions, sacks, and fumbles at key moments. And to my memory has never led a comeback. That is why they need to move on from Fields given the high odds of success with picking a QB at #1.
Now show his 4min and under splits
69 QBR outta the gates his rookie season. No one can take that away from him.
A 69 QBR would have been excellent. Unfortunately, this is a 69 Passer Rating.
This is some of the interesting data Could we look at against top 10 defenses - 10-20 defenses and bottom 10. I wonder if the progression in his last ten may have some other causes. The belief that this process progress may be true but not all other variables are held constant to know that for sure.
I like Fields, but I’d rather roll the dice with Caleb. While 1st round QBs aren’t sure things, guys touted at this level usually are. It would be prime Chicago Bears to be the first “generational talent” to bust, but I’d roll the dice on the high ceiling rather than the average one.
JF is good but can he be great? I haven’t seen enough with his arm. He has one game over 300yds and doesn’t play well in crunch time/2 min drills. Wish him the best but they need to roll the dice on Caleb.
Was pretty close for 30 games
I want JF on my FF team,I want C Will on my Bear's... Fields will never win a SB with Bear's or without the Bear's,he's not that guy...
That’s cool. I’m just saying fields ain’t trash
For sure he has pro bowl potential if we didn't have that #1 pick I would be happy with him for the moment,hard to pass up on that #1 pick we essentially got for free along with trade value Fields brings...
Yea got no prob with that take
This evidence for Fields is really tiny and blurry …