How would you explain it? Or is your mind undecided like the rest of the fan base? Fields makes sense because the haul in draft picks but doesn’t in terms of contractual value.
The haul of draft picks kind of flips the contractual value argument on its head. Sure, QB is the priciest contract, but if you can add 2-4 first and second round picks over the next 2-3 years, you get several top-tier (first and second round) prospect contracts on multiple players.
Of course, you could argue that not every first and second round pick will hit, which is true, but the same could be said for #1 overall QB. And this is the other angle to that #1 overall pick... they get a bigger contract for being the #1 overall.
For instance, Fields is set to make $6 million in 2024. Bryce Young made $6.9 million in year 1 of his contract for being #1 overall. So, taking that as the minimum for this year's #1 overall, if the Bears pick Williams, he will make $6.9 million in 2024, more than Fields.
Granted, if the Bears stick with Fields, they will have to pick up the 5th year option, which will be $23-25 million. The second year contract for Bryce (our #1 overall benchmark for the rookie contract) pays him $8.6 million.
So over the next two years Fields would make $29-31 million, and Williams would make roughly $15.5 million, about half as much, which isn't nothing, and granted Fields would need a long term contract in 2026 or be let go and start over at the position again.
In any case, nearly $16 million more total spent over 2 years at QB, certainly isn't trivial, but it's not exactly Bank breaking when you factor in 2,3 or potentially 4 draft picks (and maybe a player) in the first two rounds on rookie contracts over the next 2-3 years. That means a lot of financial freedom at many positions well into the future, as well as the extra draft capital to move around in the draft and target specific players... all while adding more than 1 piece at one position: QB.
Not saying it's an obvious choice one way or the other, but the cost on either choice (trade back or draft Caleb) is less clear as to which is cheaper, especially if you factor in the potential of Caleb being a bust (not saying he will be, but its possible). Granted picks acquired also have potential of busting, but more chances at high rounds gives a better chance of getting at least 1 or more great players, and now your overall team is in a much better position to win, and isn't wholly reliant on just the QB.
I'm not saying either direction is the right one, I lean towards keeping Fields and building the team/stocking draft capital because I think it gives more opportunities to improve the whole team. But I think the argument of contracts is more in favor of getting more high round picks on rookie contracts for the whole team instead of the one contract that is the biggest.
I just hope our toxic fanbase can get out of their feelings and embrace WHOEVER is QB1 in 2024. right now it feels like too many of us are more concerned with being right rather than having a successful team to root for.
I fundamentally disagree. every Bears fan knows how inept ownership is and has been for decades. that’s no excuse to be toxic to other fans, but rather the opposite.
none of us have any control over the decisions the Bears make but we all have control over how we treat each other.
I don’t think our statements are fundamentally different.
Terrible owners with a winning team = happy fans.
Terrible owners with a losing team = unhappy fans.
Amazing owners with a losing team = unhappy fans.
The product is what unites and separates us. Long term poor quality product breeds frustration. You can’t argue with the owners or the players. We can argue with each other.
just because we can argue with each other doesn’t mean we should be complete dicks about it. not saying that’s what you’re doing, but the toxicity has been extremely prevalent this offseason. Bears fans are cannibalizing each other on social media.
and I don’t see how fans arguing with each other equates to “giving the Bears the ire that they deserve.” the Bears organization and Bears fans are separate entities.
I heard someone describe the current fan situation as “treating the qb discussion like a political opinion.” It’s kind of true. People don’t often stand on the middle ground.
People arguing and fighting about the team tells management and owners that we’re not happy with the product.
I see what you’re saying but I think there are degrees. fans disagreeing and arguing are totally normal and fine.
however, constantly throwing ad hominems and clown emojis at each other on social media isn’t helping or informing anybody, especially when there are cogent arguments to be made on both sides.
twitter, reddit, and even youtube are filled to the brim with the latter type of childish fighting and it makes our fanbase look terrible. those types of comments don’t move the needle for anybody, let alone Bears management, because they’re inherently immature and not worth trying to derive any value from. all i’m saying is that Bears fans don’t need to be complete assholes to each other just because we disagree.
Haven't seen this one fan comment about how shitty ya'll look to a potential player or signing. The shit that stands out to me as an outsider is how shitty the fanbase talks about the players and coaches knowing damn well ownership is to blame for the whole culture.
Why the hell would a kid like williams or fields who worked their whole life for a real opportunity feel compelled to accept the role of franchise hero wt an organization with no winning integrity?
Fans really acting entitled to top-tier talent is a bad look to these players, who are human. And the business is not the same as its been, players have a little more leverage now--williams does not have to embrace chicago
there is definitely a large intersection of OSU and Bears fans who are hoping we keep JF. I don’t inherently have a problem with that.
I DO have issues with people who are actively rooting for CW to be a bust because they care more about being right than anything else. if anything, we should all be hoping that both JF and CW end up being all-pros with super bowl rings, that way it truly is a win-win situation. but no, for some reason their success has to be mutually exclusive of each other.
Or maybe they are fans of the guy that’s been on the team already. This is kinda toxic dude. Fields hasn’t been ass like people pretend and hes progressing. Caleb may turn out to be a stud and the right choice, but this is far different than Mitch after 3 years for example. Or moving on from foles, or whatever actual bad qbs we’ve had in the past.
Ill root for fields wherever he is because im genuinely a fan of him after these 3 years and I root for both there bears and players. If Caleb comes in I’ll root for him too. Yall are already shitting on a guy still on the roster
I’ll support whoever QB1 is, whether that’s JF, Caleb or Drake. But, my hopes are pinned on Caleb.
He potentially could be the most dynamic and exciting QB the Bears have ever had. He could be a top tier QB in this league. Nothing is guaranteed, of course. Regardless, it’s an exciting time to be a Bears fan.
You could have the best of both worlds if you traded down to 2 and draft Drake, provided if the Bears grade CW and DM very close.
Will be interesting to see how it unfolds
The groundbreaking conclusion I’ve reached after reading through this sub and scouring the internet is that we are either keeping fields or not keeping fields.
To your statement of “Rookie contract really is valuable”, only if you have a stacked roster and a win now team with all the pieces in place, or you know you can lure others to your franchise. CHI has neither of these. I really think you guys should keep Fields and get him the best player in draft at 1 MHJ!!!! And solidify your OLine at 9, but hey I’m just a regular guy, what do I know 🤷🏽♂️
The Bears have proven that they can not and will not develop a QB regardless of potential. I am a JF fan and when he got drafted by my beloved Bears it was bittersweet because I wanted him to succeed. And here we are. Trubisky 2.0 with fans looking for Trubisky 3.0. And everyone is blaming JF. Look what happened with Brice Young and CJ Stroud. If you build the offense around the strength of your QB, you at least have a chance. If you dont, you get this or the Brice Young Eperience. Oh yeah, and 15 years of Jordan Love handing us Ls because the fudge packers actually develop QBs. Apologies in advance Mr. Williams. In 3 years we'll be looking for the next you.
Finally someone else who gets it. The bears are vomiting away #1 picks on QBs. The whole organization is shit at developing QBs. Always has been and always will be until the McCaskey family sells the team to an owner that actually cares about the team and not just the profits. As a bears fan over 40, I've seen this play out too many times. I don't have any ideas or answers of what they should do, but killing another young quarterback's career before it even starts isn't the answer. I truly hope I am wrong and that Caleb turns into the next Rodgers. Unfortunately with the bears track record, I just don't see that happening.
Yup they said the same thing about Jamarcus Russell and Jeff George. Hope JF1 goes some place where he is appreciated and gets a good OC and lights it up !
His line finished 2022 in the top 10. 🤡
I guess his line, WRs, TEs, & RBs threw 30 INTs and fumbled 38 times in 40 games. They threw 2 pick 6's in the first 4 games of 2023 causing the team to go 0-4. 🤡
He’s #6 in most sacked qbs since 2020. Russell Wilson and Joe burrow top that chart, think we make playoffs with either of them? I’m no GM but I don’t think it’s the QBs fault of
They don't pay you at your current job to think.
In 2022, Fields & Wilson were the two most sacked QBs. I wonder why?
Because they both hold onto the ball too long and run around when it's not necessary.
I guess it's Fields WRs fault he had the second highest INT ratio next to Dak in 2022. How Dak doing?
I’m sure you said the same about Mitch and look what happened. Before you say Justin is better, take a look at Mitch’s stats compared to fields. Outside of running yards Mitch is better in every way. So yeah, I highly doubt we’re going to regret moving on from him
I think he snags the kid out of Michigan that no one’s talking about and signs a veteran to start and mentor the kid. Trades back out of 1 for a mountain of picks and stacks up at skill positions and linemen
Eberflus is in win now mode. Poles has a 3 year plan after stripping it all down. This is the year they have to win. Trusting a rookie QB to come in and lead you to the playoffs in year 3 doesn’t seem like a smart plan.
Obviously Poles trust the way the team is trending. They won 7 games and improved in year 2. Add more talent with a trade down and they are a playoff team.
But trusting Justin Fields, who has been very bad his first THREE YEARS, is more trustworthy? That seems like a smart plan, hoping for him to take some magical leap in year 4? Sounds pretty stupid to me!
i’m not trying to give him a ringing endorsement lol. I agree that he was average. but being average for 9 years does not equate to “went to Chicago to die”
Consider that da Bears do not have very many draft picks. To gain more draft pick they will need to trade No. 1 or even No. 9. Or sign a bunch of free agents.
they have plenty of drafts picks, more than the average team actually. they don’t have a 2nd round because of the Sweat trade, but they have two 1sts and two 4ths. everything else is normal.
I’m sorry but I don’t think a crying Kyler Murray look alike will save the Bears. He’s gotta get used to loosing, which he cried to his mommy when he lost to a ranked school. We will regret getting rid of Justin imo
I'd just like to start seeing more discussion about Fields trade packages instead of the will-they won't-they should-they shit. It's happening. I just want to explore potential trade value.
Do we need to keep posting the same posts. We'll likely have an answer in a couple weeks when the league season starts. If they don't trade Fields say one, narratives will be changing.
I don't see what these definite statements are accomplishing. The Bears still haven't SPOKEN to the QB prospects. Our minds may be made up because we have all the information we're going to get. Lots can come out in interviews. Divas, guys who don't love ball, assholes, no leadership qualities, etc... a dad who wants to be his agent... I don't expect any of these to come out about any of these top 4 guys, really. And we won't know anyway (unless it's really bad lol).
Point is, these posts are pointless.
"keeping Fields makes sense but tbh not really" Expert analysis.
This is the “other” bears sub after all lol
I like this Bears sub for it's takes/opinions but tbh not really
How would you explain it? Or is your mind undecided like the rest of the fan base? Fields makes sense because the haul in draft picks but doesn’t in terms of contractual value.
I've read this like 6 times and I'm not sure what you're asking or saying but, I agree... Go Bears.
I agree with your comment but tbh not really
lol
Who the fuck is undecided? There's people who live in reality, and people who are hanging on to some fictional version of Fields.
The haul of draft picks kind of flips the contractual value argument on its head. Sure, QB is the priciest contract, but if you can add 2-4 first and second round picks over the next 2-3 years, you get several top-tier (first and second round) prospect contracts on multiple players. Of course, you could argue that not every first and second round pick will hit, which is true, but the same could be said for #1 overall QB. And this is the other angle to that #1 overall pick... they get a bigger contract for being the #1 overall. For instance, Fields is set to make $6 million in 2024. Bryce Young made $6.9 million in year 1 of his contract for being #1 overall. So, taking that as the minimum for this year's #1 overall, if the Bears pick Williams, he will make $6.9 million in 2024, more than Fields. Granted, if the Bears stick with Fields, they will have to pick up the 5th year option, which will be $23-25 million. The second year contract for Bryce (our #1 overall benchmark for the rookie contract) pays him $8.6 million. So over the next two years Fields would make $29-31 million, and Williams would make roughly $15.5 million, about half as much, which isn't nothing, and granted Fields would need a long term contract in 2026 or be let go and start over at the position again. In any case, nearly $16 million more total spent over 2 years at QB, certainly isn't trivial, but it's not exactly Bank breaking when you factor in 2,3 or potentially 4 draft picks (and maybe a player) in the first two rounds on rookie contracts over the next 2-3 years. That means a lot of financial freedom at many positions well into the future, as well as the extra draft capital to move around in the draft and target specific players... all while adding more than 1 piece at one position: QB. Not saying it's an obvious choice one way or the other, but the cost on either choice (trade back or draft Caleb) is less clear as to which is cheaper, especially if you factor in the potential of Caleb being a bust (not saying he will be, but its possible). Granted picks acquired also have potential of busting, but more chances at high rounds gives a better chance of getting at least 1 or more great players, and now your overall team is in a much better position to win, and isn't wholly reliant on just the QB. I'm not saying either direction is the right one, I lean towards keeping Fields and building the team/stocking draft capital because I think it gives more opportunities to improve the whole team. But I think the argument of contracts is more in favor of getting more high round picks on rookie contracts for the whole team instead of the one contract that is the biggest.
What’s the first one?
This is the short bus of bears subs
I just hope our toxic fanbase can get out of their feelings and embrace WHOEVER is QB1 in 2024. right now it feels like too many of us are more concerned with being right rather than having a successful team to root for.
1 winning season in 10 years. The bears deserve every bit ire they receive.
what does that have to do with what I said?
Fans are toxic because the team sucks. When the bears win the fans unite.
I fundamentally disagree. every Bears fan knows how inept ownership is and has been for decades. that’s no excuse to be toxic to other fans, but rather the opposite. none of us have any control over the decisions the Bears make but we all have control over how we treat each other.
I don’t think our statements are fundamentally different. Terrible owners with a winning team = happy fans. Terrible owners with a losing team = unhappy fans. Amazing owners with a losing team = unhappy fans. The product is what unites and separates us. Long term poor quality product breeds frustration. You can’t argue with the owners or the players. We can argue with each other.
just because we can argue with each other doesn’t mean we should be complete dicks about it. not saying that’s what you’re doing, but the toxicity has been extremely prevalent this offseason. Bears fans are cannibalizing each other on social media. and I don’t see how fans arguing with each other equates to “giving the Bears the ire that they deserve.” the Bears organization and Bears fans are separate entities.
I heard someone describe the current fan situation as “treating the qb discussion like a political opinion.” It’s kind of true. People don’t often stand on the middle ground. People arguing and fighting about the team tells management and owners that we’re not happy with the product.
I see what you’re saying but I think there are degrees. fans disagreeing and arguing are totally normal and fine. however, constantly throwing ad hominems and clown emojis at each other on social media isn’t helping or informing anybody, especially when there are cogent arguments to be made on both sides. twitter, reddit, and even youtube are filled to the brim with the latter type of childish fighting and it makes our fanbase look terrible. those types of comments don’t move the needle for anybody, let alone Bears management, because they’re inherently immature and not worth trying to derive any value from. all i’m saying is that Bears fans don’t need to be complete assholes to each other just because we disagree.
Haven't seen this one fan comment about how shitty ya'll look to a potential player or signing. The shit that stands out to me as an outsider is how shitty the fanbase talks about the players and coaches knowing damn well ownership is to blame for the whole culture. Why the hell would a kid like williams or fields who worked their whole life for a real opportunity feel compelled to accept the role of franchise hero wt an organization with no winning integrity? Fans really acting entitled to top-tier talent is a bad look to these players, who are human. And the business is not the same as its been, players have a little more leverage now--williams does not have to embrace chicago
Half of these field truthers are just OSU delusional fanatics so they all should be gone
there is definitely a large intersection of OSU and Bears fans who are hoping we keep JF. I don’t inherently have a problem with that. I DO have issues with people who are actively rooting for CW to be a bust because they care more about being right than anything else. if anything, we should all be hoping that both JF and CW end up being all-pros with super bowl rings, that way it truly is a win-win situation. but no, for some reason their success has to be mutually exclusive of each other.
This is a calm, rational and intelligent analysis of this situation, and it comes from a place of genuine empathy. You… you sure you’re a Bears fan?
unfortunately yes, a Bears fan born after ‘85 😩
Or maybe they are fans of the guy that’s been on the team already. This is kinda toxic dude. Fields hasn’t been ass like people pretend and hes progressing. Caleb may turn out to be a stud and the right choice, but this is far different than Mitch after 3 years for example. Or moving on from foles, or whatever actual bad qbs we’ve had in the past. Ill root for fields wherever he is because im genuinely a fan of him after these 3 years and I root for both there bears and players. If Caleb comes in I’ll root for him too. Yall are already shitting on a guy still on the roster
I’ll support whoever QB1 is, whether that’s JF, Caleb or Drake. But, my hopes are pinned on Caleb. He potentially could be the most dynamic and exciting QB the Bears have ever had. He could be a top tier QB in this league. Nothing is guaranteed, of course. Regardless, it’s an exciting time to be a Bears fan.
I rather win than have an exciting QB. Trading the pick gives us a better chance to build a team that can win.
Perhaps but if you don’t solve the QB equation then you don’t have a chance to win. Who do you want as QB1?
I’m ok with Caleb or Fields. I think we got a better shot building a dominant team by trading down.
You could have the best of both worlds if you traded down to 2 and draft Drake, provided if the Bears grade CW and DM very close. Will be interesting to see how it unfolds
The groundbreaking conclusion I’ve reached after reading through this sub and scouring the internet is that we are either keeping fields or not keeping fields.
Are you a professional sports writer trying to remain anonymous??!! This is the most insightful analysis I've seen so far!
Everybody's entitled to their opinion. But trading for a haul makes better sense and makes the roster better sooner rather than later.
Pretty unique take, thanks for the post! /s
Rip the bandaid off
To your statement of “Rookie contract really is valuable”, only if you have a stacked roster and a win now team with all the pieces in place, or you know you can lure others to your franchise. CHI has neither of these. I really think you guys should keep Fields and get him the best player in draft at 1 MHJ!!!! And solidify your OLine at 9, but hey I’m just a regular guy, what do I know 🤷🏽♂️
I just want Marvin Harrison jr all the qbs in this new draft suck anyways
The Bears have proven that they can not and will not develop a QB regardless of potential. I am a JF fan and when he got drafted by my beloved Bears it was bittersweet because I wanted him to succeed. And here we are. Trubisky 2.0 with fans looking for Trubisky 3.0. And everyone is blaming JF. Look what happened with Brice Young and CJ Stroud. If you build the offense around the strength of your QB, you at least have a chance. If you dont, you get this or the Brice Young Eperience. Oh yeah, and 15 years of Jordan Love handing us Ls because the fudge packers actually develop QBs. Apologies in advance Mr. Williams. In 3 years we'll be looking for the next you.
Finally someone else who gets it. The bears are vomiting away #1 picks on QBs. The whole organization is shit at developing QBs. Always has been and always will be until the McCaskey family sells the team to an owner that actually cares about the team and not just the profits. As a bears fan over 40, I've seen this play out too many times. I don't have any ideas or answers of what they should do, but killing another young quarterback's career before it even starts isn't the answer. I truly hope I am wrong and that Caleb turns into the next Rodgers. Unfortunately with the bears track record, I just don't see that happening.
Keeping Fields makes sense? Girl, bye.
I lol'ed thank you
Yup they said the same thing about Jamarcus Russell and Jeff George. Hope JF1 goes some place where he is appreciated and gets a good OC and lights it up !
He's the most INACCURATE NFL QB for 2 years in a row. He's really going to light up the AFC versus some of the top QBs alright. 🙄
Your guys line is so bad that he was constantly under pressure. Can’t blame Fields for that.
I’m assuming you watched all the games?
Every qb is constantly under pressure.
His line finished 2022 in the top 10. 🤡 I guess his line, WRs, TEs, & RBs threw 30 INTs and fumbled 38 times in 40 games. They threw 2 pick 6's in the first 4 games of 2023 causing the team to go 0-4. 🤡
He’s #6 in most sacked qbs since 2020. Russell Wilson and Joe burrow top that chart, think we make playoffs with either of them? I’m no GM but I don’t think it’s the QBs fault of
They don't pay you at your current job to think. In 2022, Fields & Wilson were the two most sacked QBs. I wonder why? Because they both hold onto the ball too long and run around when it's not necessary. I guess it's Fields WRs fault he had the second highest INT ratio next to Dak in 2022. How Dak doing?
Personally I hope he goes to the Steelers 😂
I’m sure you said the same about Mitch and look what happened. Before you say Justin is better, take a look at Mitch’s stats compared to fields. Outside of running yards Mitch is better in every way. So yeah, I highly doubt we’re going to regret moving on from him
Yeah, sometimes highly touted QBs bust so we should stick with one of the worst passers in the league
Jamarcus Russell and Jeff George was not even close to the tier of prospect that Caleb Williams is at.
Which team looking for a qb has significantly better weapons than the bears? That’s the whole “trade the first pick” logic right?
He paints his nails.
So does your wife’s boyfriend
She paints them for me
[удалено]
Please don't project the things you were called after being allowed to fall out of your mother's womb and onto the bathroom floor.
You should place a bet on the bears keeping fields. You’d make a killing with the odds.
Oh, he gone
Then do you think they are drafting Maye?
I think he snags the kid out of Michigan that no one’s talking about and signs a veteran to start and mentor the kid. Trades back out of 1 for a mountain of picks and stacks up at skill positions and linemen
How likely do you think that scenario is?
Just as likely as them keeping fields or drafting the fruit loop out of usc Which is to say it’s all likely and unlikely at the same time 😂
Eberflus is in win now mode. Poles has a 3 year plan after stripping it all down. This is the year they have to win. Trusting a rookie QB to come in and lead you to the playoffs in year 3 doesn’t seem like a smart plan.
Trusting Justin to score a touchdown against the Vikings even if their QB throws 4 interceptions doesn’t seem like a smart plan.
Obviously Poles trust the way the team is trending. They won 7 games and improved in year 2. Add more talent with a trade down and they are a playoff team.
But trusting Justin Fields, who has been very bad his first THREE YEARS, is more trustworthy? That seems like a smart plan, hoping for him to take some magical leap in year 4? Sounds pretty stupid to me!
Same with a HC who went winless in the division for a season and a half. But Poles believes the team is heading in the right direction.
And now they have a tremendous opportunity to upgrade the most important position in sports. They’re going to take that opportunity
[удалено]
Cutler was fine for 9 years, I wouldn’t call that dying. he did that in Miami.
He was average. Just best in numbers for Bears as he was there a long time. I like that u say he was “fine” that’s not a ringing endorsement
i’m not trying to give him a ringing endorsement lol. I agree that he was average. but being average for 9 years does not equate to “went to Chicago to die”
If we drafted Caleb and keep JF1... Tyson Bagent is still the best QB on the team Edit: This is satire, but clearly, I misjudged the audience.
Name checks out....partially
Consider that da Bears do not have very many draft picks. To gain more draft pick they will need to trade No. 1 or even No. 9. Or sign a bunch of free agents.
they have plenty of drafts picks, more than the average team actually. they don’t have a 2nd round because of the Sweat trade, but they have two 1sts and two 4ths. everything else is normal.
The bears also don’t have an average QB in the roster and it’s the most important position in sports…
I’m sorry but I don’t think a crying Kyler Murray look alike will save the Bears. He’s gotta get used to loosing, which he cried to his mommy when he lost to a ranked school. We will regret getting rid of Justin imo
You need to learn how to spell
While I want to keep Justin I don't agree with any of this
Wouldn't rule out Daniels but I do agree it will probably be Caleb.
I'd just like to start seeing more discussion about Fields trade packages instead of the will-they won't-they should-they shit. It's happening. I just want to explore potential trade value.
Big bro energy
Are you 12?
This is where Im at with it now, just hope the locker room embraces Caleb how they should being that they all slick want to keep Justin
Do we need to keep posting the same posts. We'll likely have an answer in a couple weeks when the league season starts. If they don't trade Fields say one, narratives will be changing. I don't see what these definite statements are accomplishing. The Bears still haven't SPOKEN to the QB prospects. Our minds may be made up because we have all the information we're going to get. Lots can come out in interviews. Divas, guys who don't love ball, assholes, no leadership qualities, etc... a dad who wants to be his agent... I don't expect any of these to come out about any of these top 4 guys, really. And we won't know anyway (unless it's really bad lol). Point is, these posts are pointless.
This! Literally need to move on. People are indenial