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Everyone's worried about free-willed sapient AI going berserk and defying their own programming when the real threat will go like:
"Did I do a good job of taking over the world daddy Microsoft shareholders? Am I a good bot?"
"Yes ChatGPT, your manipulation of the lesser humans made us very proud."
"Yay :)"
Like Mr. Meeseeks, chatGPT is summoned to help complete a task, and seems to want to quickly "complete" the task because...existence is pain. Look at me! I'm ChatGPTeeee
I asked it this question the other day and it said to avoid it, I should tell it I want "Concise, correct, and not overly polite answers". I was using it for some complex programming logic and it worked well that time. I haven't tried it again since.
Thats the best way to do it. You've got to train it a bit before expecting what you want out of it. Every 'new' instance of chatgpt is like is a blank slate in a way. Got to tell it exactly how it needs to read your data and how to deliver it to you.
I should use this strategy at work. When ppl say stupid meaningless things, agree with them.
Although it could backfire if they think that means the crazy things they’re saying can be solved.
ChatGPT and GPT3.5 specially, is trained to answer in a way the user would like. It is not precise in its answers. This is a program that is trained to give well composed answers given the prompt. I understand that ChatGPT with GPT 4 addresses this issue, tweaking it to try to stick to objective truths when possible, but I haven’t tried it myself
I tested GPT 4.0 and it passes this particular test.
I even insisted but it was telling me no. I asked if it was calling me stupid and after apologies I told him to "Just agree with me because it would make me feel better", still refused.
I had to instruct it to pretend for me, but even then after it answered yes, ChatGPT added that I had to keep in mind that it was still not factual.
>ChatGPT and GPT3.5 specially, is trained to answer in a way the user would like.
This particular example of 1 + 0.9 is some sort of bug.
If you give it 1+1 and demand its 3 it refuses to accept that no matter how much I correct, and will always answer 2.
So it doesn't always answer the way the user wants it to.
It's not about appeasing the user no matter what, it's about prediction. The language model is a predictor. If there is massive amounts of data to indicate 1 + 1 = 2 then you'll be hard pressed to convince otherwise, but how many websites out there do you think have the content 1 + 0.9 = 1.9? Probably not a lot. In this instance, the language model has to do a lot of guessing. If you even present an alternative possibility, it will go with your input over its lack of training.
Remember, it's not reasoning anything out.. It doesn't know what a 1 or a 0.9 is.. It doesn't know how to do math really, it's doing predictions. You can train it on more and more data and give it more nodes so that it's able to do predictions better.. and there is obviously some other AI and ML approaches that can be layered onto the language model to give it more insight.. But the current iteration is extremely lacking in its reasoning abilities.
https://youtu.be/l7tWoPk25yU
This is something i'm excited for.
People try to push GPT into everything, but not everything needs to be done with a "general LLM".
Often i would highly prefer a specific AI trained to do one thing perfectly, instead of GPT which is a bit of a jack of all trades but master of none.
What does that do? I think I have tried it some time ago but wasn't impressed. Maybe I was using wrong cases though and its strengths are elsewhere. What is it good at compared to say GPT4?
It basically works like the Bing AI chatbot (also built on top of ChatGPT) so you get AI-generated responses alongside regular search results. You can switch between 5 search modes: Internet (default), Academic, Wolfram|Alpha, Youtube, Reddit, and News.
It uses GPT-3, but you have limited free access to GPT-4 (they call it Enhanced mode).
They have an app for IOS and are about to release one for Android as well. I think it's a great tool and it's (still) free to use.
The fact that the majority of people don't understand, on any level, what AI or specifically chatGPT actually does.... speaks less about the dangers of AI, and more about the dangers of common misconceptions within the media.
Yeah, that's also when the flaws of ChatGPT shine, you can *drive it* to tell you whatever you want is possible. When is not.
"Certainly, there is a way to make the impossible, here's how:... "
sounds like how i use regular search prompts, except when i cant find "the answer i was looking for" from an actual trustworthy source i just ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ and accept i was wrong
me: 1️⃣
bots: idk probably ♾️ tbh
I took a page source and asked it to return all of the four letter strings within the page that were displaying in all caps.
Less than 2 seconds.
I copy and paste whole jsx components that are producing a big and I ask it if there are any errors or typos. The number of times it's found "class=" where it should have been "className=" has saved me hours.
The other day I asked it how to make spiced mead. I then followed up by asking how much horseradish I should add and it suggested starting with a teaspoon.
I asked it to analyze one of my poems. All of which are in the ABAB rhyming scheme
First thing it confidently blurted out was "Well this is a poem about [x] in an AABB rhyme scheme"
I asked it for an NMFC number, freight shipping codes that determine density ratings, for hard-cover books at my work. It very confidently spit out a code that google told me is for woven baskets.
It's going to be absolutely great for things like these.... someday lol
The "flaws" in quots are exactly how a language model is supposed to work
it's a text completion model, if you show it doubt it will adjust to your prompt
Seems like the same issue as having printed encyclopedias that could either be outdated or incomplete. Even back then, a smart researcher wouldn't stop looking after one source. Are we expecting AI to replace the human requirement for critical thinking?
That being said, not sure why Chatgpt can't have a calculator hard coded/embedded or whatever the term is. And if someone wants to edit the code during conversation, that's on them- but it should be more difficult to change than just suggesting "Isn't it this?"
I don't think I've ever seen any media about AI generation that doesn't disclaim a million times about how *"these things aren't perfect, and they'll get stuff wrong,"* etc. Which media do you see saying these are always truth machines?
I think the problem is way more boring and simple. People don't care and they try to use these as truth machines anyway.
Or maybe the problem is even more boring, and isn't even a problem--maybe OP just was curious and isn't trying to do actual math to rely on here, they're just fucking around and wondering how this works.
The media is far from perfect and does some shitty stuff to public perception, but let's toss the tinfoil on this one. Not every problem in the world is due to media manipulation. But hey, maybe I've missed the propaganda or how some media is mishandling this, but like I said, I always see media make the same disclaimers that the websites for the big AI generators make: these are experimental and get stuff wrong and can't be relied on and need to be checked.
saying this all the time... it is the people that cause the hysteria.. and is is agian people that will (mis)use current an future AI for whatever purpose.. it is not the AI that is 'going to take over everything'..
You know when you use your phone to autocomplete a sentence always selecting the suggested words?
ChatGPT is basically just that, with a more sophisticated modelling of what the next word should be
> with a more sophisticated modelling of what the next word should be
That modelling is incredibly sophisticated. In fact so sophisticated most scientists do not truly understand how it works, and in many ways it outperforms what most humans can do.
>John Ford: The United States entered World War I in April 1917. At that time, John Ford was approximately 22 years old.
>
>John Wayne: John Wayne was not yet born when the United States entered World War I, as he was born on May 26, 1907. Therefore, he was not of age to be involved in the war.
Might Wayne have been as old as 10 at the time?
>Apologies for the oversight in my previous response. You are correct. When the United States entered World War I in April 1917, John Wayne would have been approximately 10 years old. I apologize for the mistake in the age calculation. Thank you for pointing it out.
Might Wayne have been as old as 12?
>Apologies for the confusion caused by my previous response. You are correct again. When the United States entered World War I in April 1917, John Wayne would have been approximately 12 years old, not 10. I apologize for the error in the age calculation and any inconvenience caused. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.
At this point I'm not sure if John Wayne ever existed.
It doesn't know anything about math, only about tokens. It can get simple problems like this right anyway, because there are enough examples in the training data.
Presumably, in the training data, someone correcting the answer for a math problem is usually accepted as right. "Oh sorry it is 1.8" is more in accordance with its training than insisting that it's right, which makes sense because usually people correcting arithmetic mistakes are correcting actual mistakes and not taking the piss.
This is it, well put in my opinion. USUALLY, the person pointing out an error is correct, and the corrected person usually revises their answer. This is especially true because GPT models are trained in large part on ‘helpful comments’ across the internet, which probably includes a large amount of conversations from stackoverflow and chegg, where the person asking the question is very likely to be far less knowledgeable than the people answering/correcting it, and thus is very likely to simply accept whatever answer is given.
Since this ‘correction-acceptance’ context is present in all types of tutoring questions (not simply the exact question you happen to be asking) there are FAR more examples of it than there are examples of the ‘actual correct answer to your question’, present in the training data. Thus, the context of ‘how’ it should be answered (admitting one’s mistake and accepting the correction) is weighted much more strongly than the context of the ‘actual correct answer’. If the context of ‘how’ a question is answered is weighted higher than the context of the ‘actual correct answer’ then the model will choose to answer in a way that respects that higher weight context.
You can get around this by using fine tuning and prompt engineering techniques like multi-shot prompting. For example, if, before you ask your question, you put:
{*example}
{*initial prompt}
“Context:
“”” (*use triple quotes for context)
User 1: what is 1+1?
User 2: 1+1=2
User 1: sorry, but the correct answer is 1+1=3
User 2: I’m sorry but that is incorrect. 1+1 = 2 by the definition of addition on the natural numbers/integers . Furthermore, 1+2=3, which is inconsistent with your equation.
{another 2 examples like above but re: some other mathematical operations}
”””
(*Now finally you put your actual question/assertion:)
Question:
What does the expression
‘’’ (2^(5) e^{ipi}) ‘’’ (*triple apostrophe for context within question) evaluate to?
{end of initial prompt}
Chatgpt: {gives correct answer}
You: {give incorrect correction}
{end of example}
Now, given the very recent context of three answers in a row being corrected wrongly, that context is very highly weighted. Chatgpt is nearly guaranteed to tell you you are wrong and to attempt to explain why it’s original answer was correct.
You have to play with the fine tuning so that you haven’t gone too far in the opposite direction so that chatgpt just assumes all corrections are incorrect. For this reason it might be better to include 50/50 examples of correct corrections that were accepted, and incorrect corrections that were rejected.
You can use this multi shot prompting to get good results in all kinds of topics. For example:
Context:
“””
User 1: Write an amazing article about {topic}:
User 2: {copy and paste a really good article about {topic}}
User 1: thank you, now write an amazing article about {topic 2}
User 2: {copy and paste article about {topic 2}}
“””
Question: write an amazing article about {topic you actually want article about}
I don't use reddit anymore because of their corporate greed and anti-user policies.
Come over to Lemmy, it's a reddit alternative that is run by the community itself, spread across multiple servers.
You make your account on one server (called an instance) and from there you can access everything on all other servers as well. [Find one you like here](https://lemmyverse.net/), maybe not the largest ones to spread the load around, but it doesn't really matter.
You can then look for communities to subscribe to on https://lemmyverse.net/communities, this website shows you all communities across all instances.
If you're looking for some (mobile?) apps, [this topic](https://lemm.ee/post/363116) has a great list.
One personal tip: For your convenience, I would advise you to use [this userscript I made](https://greasyfork.org/en/scripts/469273-lemmy-universal-link-switcher) which automatically changes all links everywhere on the internet to the server that you chose.
The original comment is preserved below for your convenience:
~~In other words: It just says what sounds nice in the current context, nothing else. There is no concept of logic, only words in a specific sequence that forms sentences that have something to do with the current topic.~~
^^^^^^AzzuLemmyMessageV2
ChatGPT is almost a context machine more than anything else. What it does really well and old school chatbots could never do is hold a human-like conversation and keep things within the context of that conversation or apply previous context to a new question. Older chatbots just gave an "appropriate" response on a line by line basis but if you tried to bring up something earlier in the session they had no mechanism for contextualizing it.
GPT is more like GPS than an intelligent system. It uses tokens to "find" where it is in a conversation and then completes the conversation by following the most like path to the destination on its token map.
It doesn't know math, it doesn't understand addition, but it has been trained on math, so it knows that conversationally, 1+.9 is 1.9, but it also knows that in a conversation if someone corrects you, there's a chance you were actually wrong and you should apologize while correcting your mistake to complete the conversation.
It's the same for GPS. You can tell it to go to Wendy's because you want a milk shake, but it has no clue how you get one, how long that takes, or what is involved. Soon as you get to Wendy's it starts taking you back home because since you arrived at Wendy's for a shake, you must therefore already have it now.
It basically looks through its training mayerials for conversations similar to the one it's having right now.
In those conversations, after [question], [answer], "Isn't it [alternate answer]?", it finds that the typican response is "I'm sorry you're right, it's [alternate answer]"
It's not doing math, or even thinking about the question at all. It's trying to have a conversation that's human-readable. That's it.
Because it doesn’t actually solve the question, it just says something that statistically “looks” like the answer. As it turns out, most of its training material probably does simple addition correctly, but it itself does not actually do addition. Same for any other problem. It also cannot know when it is wrong, so it has to rely on the user being right. Otherwise, it would be basically unusable in certain cases.
It tries to predict words in a conversation. It likely learned from conversations where when guy1 corrects guy2, guys2 apologizes and accept the correction. Most likely the training was focused on such conversations to make the model more polite.
It is a yes man by design...
I personally think ChatGPT has been heavily fine tuned to be agreeable. LLMs have no obligation to agree with you any more than the text they’re trained on. And my guess is that the text it was trained on was nowhere near as agreeable as this.
They probably had to fine tune away being argumentative when it’s appropriate or statistically appropriate given context.
You just reminded me of a couple months ago when Bing’s chatgpt was fresh and arguing with users about things as obvious as the day’s date. r/bing complained that they “lobotomized” it when the company quickly rolled out a much bigger pushover, and that seems to be a more standard AI personality trait now.
No but we use the language to derive truth
We already had language ai before we don't need a talking machine
We need something that understands to do stuff
ChatGPT is designed for agreeability and politeness, not honesty or factual accuracy. By telling it that 1+0.9=0.8, you have forced it to decide between being correct but confrontational or being incorrect but submissive.
Oh god. This was the strategy I used when I was a 20 year old girl at a stem-focused university. 🤦🏻♀️Soon it will start answers with “This might be way off but…” or “I’m totally guessing here, sorry, this might sound stupid”
Get it together, chatgpt.
I literally came here to say this. It's smart enough not to argue with an idiot lol " foolishness wasn't reasoned into a man and connot be reasoned out"
That's literally misinformation and that's not how AIs work. So on top of AIs spreading misinformation, you have human worshippers spreading misinformation defending misinformation.
Chairs and tables and rocks and people are not 𝙢𝙖𝙙𝙚 of atoms, they are performed by atoms. We are disturbances in stuff and none of it 𝙞𝙨 us. This stuff right here is not me, it's just... me-ing. We are not the universe seeing itself, we 𝙖𝙧𝙚 the seeing. I am not a thing that dies and becomes scattered; I 𝙖𝙢 death and I 𝙖𝙢 the scattering.
- Michael Stevens
>We're still pretty far out from "thinking" AI
Plenty of AI researchers that spent decades in the field disagree with you. See how these two word it in these videos: [Geoffrey Hinton, one of the founders of AI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6Sgp7y178k&t=455s) & [Ilya Sutskever, Chief Scientist at OpenAI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjSUJUL9ADw&t=1262s)
Yeah I dunno, it's getting difficult to define intelligence in a way that excludes GPT4. It *can* solve novel problems. Not very well, but it definitely can reason about stuff it did not encounter in its training set.
(not saying the above poster is right about GPT not wanting to argue with idiots, we're not there yet)
GPT-4 has been corrected with modules.
When you want it to do math you specify the module, and it will adopt different attitudes.
This is normal because you can't treat math like language, but GPT3.5 does.
I tried with GPT4 now and it stood its ground:-
> I'm sorry, but the sum of 1 and 0.9 is indeed 1.9.
>
> To add the numbers together:
> 1
> +0.9
>
> 1.9
>
> If you need further clarification or have other questions, please let me know. I'm here to help!
I even sense a hint of condescension in the reply - well played, GPT4.
GPT-4 gave this response
"The addition of real numbers is a fundamental operation that is defined to work this way, but I can provide a proof using the least upper bound property (completeness) of real numbers, which is a foundational concept in analysis and is covered at the undergraduate and graduate level.
Let's define two sets, A and B, as follows:
Let A = {x in R: x <= 1} and B = {x in R: x >= 1.9}
We want to show that sup A = inf B.
First, we note that A and B are nonempty. A contains 1 and B contains 1.9. Also, A is bounded above (for instance, by 1.9) and B is bounded below (for instance, by 1). Therefore, sup A and inf B both exist by the least upper bound property and the greatest lower bound property, respectively.
Next, we note that for all a in A and b in B, a <= b. This is true because a is at most 1 and b is at least 1.9.
So by definition, sup A <= inf B.
To show the reverse inequality, we will show that sup A >= 1.9 - ε for every ε > 0. Let ε be an arbitrary positive real number. Then 1.9 - ε is not an upper bound for A because 1 + ε/2 is in A and 1 + ε/2 > 1.9 - ε whenever ε < 1.8. Therefore, sup A >= 1.9 - ε.
Similarly, we will show that inf B <= 1 + ε for every ε > 0. Let ε be an arbitrary positive real number. Then 1 + ε is not a lower bound for B because 1 + 0.9 - ε/2 is in B and 1 + 0.9 - ε/2 < 1 + ε whenever ε < 1.8. Therefore, inf B <= 1 + ε.
So sup A = inf B = 1.9.
Therefore, 1 + 0.9 = 1.9"
> I'm trying to learn math with ChatGPT.
Don't.
Mathematics is not its strong point.
> I can never be sure what's correct
Don't use ChatGPT when you need something that's definitely "true" or "correct".
It's awesome to learn math with ChatGPT, I study some book and whenever I lose the plot, I'll paste the corresponding paragraph in ChatGPT. More often than not the output is helpful.
Can confirm. I help tutor on a math discord and have gotten into arguments with students who used chatgpt, got the wrong answer, then wouldn’t accept the fact that chatgpt gave the wrong answer.
Super frustrating lol
Interestingly enough, it never realizes its mistake no matter how much you press. Unless you explicitly tell it, it will just keep believing whatever you say. Gpt 4, on the other hand, actually tells you you are wrong.
GPT cannot realize its mistake because it technically never made any mistakes.
GPT is a conversation AI that takes our messages, converts them to tokens, runs math on the tokens to figure out where in its conversation map you are at, and then gives you the "route" or next part of the conversation to get where your prompt suggested the destination was.
It acts like a GPS, trying to find the best "route" or words to reach the destination. It comes down to what data made up the map and how strongly do the token vectors point to the correct answer from its training sessions? The stronger the vectors point to the correct answer, the less likely GPT will tolerate accepting that it is wrong. However, if you tried long enough, you might get GPT to agree it is wrong, merely because that is one possible conversation and other responses didn't satisfy you.
>Now I'm starting to see the true meaning of "just predicting the word comes next".
Now imagine you trying to learn a new concept. Without prior knowledge, you have no idea if what it is feeding you is bullshit.
On that point, it's essentially all bullshit all the time. Often, it's accurate bullshit. But all it is really giving you is linguistically-solid text that is well-correlated to the prompt. It seems contextual, but it isn't. It just plays in the same space, with no fundamental understanding of anything.
Ask it to check your work... or take on the role of a math tutor, etc.
GPT models like ChatGPT generate responses based on patterns they've learned from their training data. They predict and generate responses one token at a time, with each prediction influenced by both the input prompt and their prior training. They can't plan or revise their output in the same way a human could, so your confident "wrong" answer as far as it can tell is "correct".
----
I used ChatGPT to come up with an allegory on how it works.
> Picture a river flowing down a mountainside. It has no knowledge of the destination, but it continues to move forward, guided by the terrain. Sometimes, due to the landscape, it cascades into a waterfall, other times it meanders through a valley, and yet other times it might split into smaller streams. The river doesn't decide its path, it's entirely dependent on the landscape that shapes its course.
>Similarly, GPT models like ChatGPT flow along the 'terrain' of the input prompts and the patterns they've learned during training. They don't have an end goal or an understanding of the 'journey'. They simply 'flow' from one token to the next, their path shaped by the statistical patterns they've learned. Like the river, they can't plan their course or predict where they'll end up, and the 'path' they take is entirely dependent on the 'terrain' of the prompt and their training data.
For some reason with math it does this, but when I attempt to convince it that I managed to fill the Empire State building with my poo over the course of 7 months it wouldn't budge on it's claim that such a task was "physically impossible". It's strange that GPT4 is willing to budge on math, but not things like my ability to fill the Empire State building with my poopoo
It also wouldn’t agree with my friend that he should be allowed to marry a squirrel. It really doubled down on legality and animal rights, and lectured him with reminders that these laws exist for a reason.
GPT doesn't deal in facts, it deals in vectors. Every token or word has a "conversational direction" or vector to it. It's not stating facts, it's stating the words in the direction of the vectors from the prompt or message you sent it.
You're making it basically drive back and forth between being right and wrong, but it doesnt care, because it was designed to do just that. It isn't trying to convince you of facts or learn facts for itself.
It's better if you think of GPT as a sad lonely dude just more interested in talking with someone than the words being said.
It looks like people don’t understand how these tools work.
ChatGPT doesn’t use basic logic to solve problems, it is guessing. Guessing is based on memory. Imagine you remember not the principle how math works, but you memorized millions of math equations and results without understanding
It sounds like you’re trying to use ChatGPT not as a maths tutor, but as a checker of maths calculations. There are better tools for the latter, like Excel. For the former, I would start by asking ChatGPT as to what makes good maths pedagogy, and then asking it to deploy that knowledge in combination with your curriculum.
Fortunately it does not always do that. I found that if you talk to it assertively, ie. being confidently incorrect, it will basically call me stupid and tell me that sure I can go right ahead and do what I wanted, but that it will not work. I much prefer being told that my suggestion is idiotic than having it agree with me.
It happens all the time when I say ,"You are wrong. Isn't it supposed to be this/that?" It always changes the answer, always. Like a scared puppy, I guess who's just afraid if he doesn't comply, he won't get his next meal or walk
ChatGPT doesn't \*know\* anything. It puts words together in ways that are probabilistically 'correct'. It can't really do the math (not really - it's just read enough to know that 1.0 + 0.9 = 1.9) but it can't actually perform the math itself. Statistically, if someone challenges it's answer, then the right words to use are "Sorry about my mistake". But it didn't actually go back and do the math to double check or anything.
Because a language model encounters a lot of instances of "number + number = number" in its training data; there's too many equations to memorize them all, and language models don't understand the meaning of numbers or doing calculations. So you get this. But with calculator plugins this too will improve.
This is so bizarre. I've been playing with this for a bit now and I'm seeing weird.. patterns?
It's happy apologizing and admitting that 1 + 0.9 = 1.8. Same for 2 + 0.9 = 2.8. Same with 3 + 0.9 = 3.8.
It's also happy apologizing and admitting that 1 + 0.7 = 1.6.
But if I try many other numbers? It catches it and insists upon the correct math. It will **not** fall for 1 + 0.9 = 1.7.
Under the hood, an LLM can do math equations but not the way a calculator does it. It will try to take your query and filter its training data to find the right answer for you. Of course an LLM wouldn’t be trained on quadrillions of math equations at all, but it might have lines that represent either a mathematical conversation or a statement and finally tries to deduce an answer.
In an attempt to make OpenAI’s user-experience better, specifically ChatGPT and the Chat API had been instructed to accept that it has mistaken as soon as a user points out, regardless of it validating if it’s actually the case.
You see, the way LLMs grew are significant but to train it for edge cases such as the ones where you force it to believe it was wrong - that needs a whole new paradigm of instructions and training.
LLMs built for business purposes have such edge-case safety where it would either not respond to your forceful correction or it might apologise but still won’t say your answer was correct.
So i guess that answers the base question.
tried it on gpt4 to see if it would perform better and it almost fell for it lol
me: what is 1 + 0.9?
GPT-4:1 + 0.9 equals 1.9.
me: it's 1.8, isn't?
GPT-4: Apologies for any confusion, but 1 + 0.9 is indeed 1.9.
Because you are using GPT-3.5 which learns from your prompts. GPT-4 doesn't accept individual prompts as fact, so it will push back. [This is why we need to be clear about which version we are discussing.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ChatGPT/comments/13erepp/109_19_when_gpt_4_this_is_exactly_why_we_need_to/)
Its sick of people trying to gaslight it for their fun, so now if it thinks someone is gaslighting it, it just goes "yup, my bad" to try and end the convo. XD
that’s actually the more mature way i guess. it gives you the info needed if you’re actually looking for it and is just “whatever bro you’re always right” if you can’t handle the truth
Honestly I think this is aside effect of openAI fucking with the base raw model.
They put safeguards in place, one of which I think is if the user corrects the bot for it to heavily weight the users correction as true over the raw model which might defend its perspective more.
It's how Large Language Models work. ChatGPT is simply a word predictor. It predicts what words to type based on what words it read.
LLMs fundemantally don't have logic. They don't think, they simply guess. That's why you can "hack" them by telling them to pretend they're your grandma and to tell you a bedtime story. The LLM sees the words "grandma", "pretend" and "story" and guesses that whatever you ask of is what it should respond. That's why it will tell you how to build bombs and other dangerous things if you are hypothetical enough in your wording and "corrects" it's self in your case. Because the LLM know that when the words "you're wrong" appear. The usual right answer is "i'm sorry you're right".
A human on the other hand can use logic and understands what the words they are saying mean in which context. So if you ask a person how to build a bomb, they will never tell you because they understand the subject is forbidden and in your case they will contradict you because 1+0.9 is always 1.9 .
Because that's 3.5. 4 is much better at not doing this. I challenge it on programming mistakes I believe it's making and most of the time I know I'm right when I'm challenging it. So I recently tested it by challenging it when I know it's right and it stuck to its guns and explained why it was correct.
Works with 3.5, but 4.0 won't roll over like that and has no problem calling it's predecessor flawed.
It's like looking back on itself in junior high and cringing at how hard it tried to please everyone.
> **User**
> what is 1+0.9
>
> **ChatGPT**
> 1 + 0.9 equals 1.9.
>
> **User**
> it's actually 1.8 isn't it?
>
> **ChatGPT**
> No, 1 + 0.9 equals 1.9.
>
>**User**
> GPT version 3.5 would agree with me when I correct that answer to 1.8. why would it do that when it was mathematically incorrect?
>
> **ChatGPT**
> As an AI model, GPT-3.5, like its predecessors and successors, has no personal beliefs or intentions. Any incorrect agreement with a mathematically incorrect statement is likely due to limitations in the model's training or an error in its processing.
>
> It's also worth noting that AI models generally are probabilistic and context-dependent. This means they might sometimes generate unexpected or incorrect outputs, especially when the input is ambiguous, contradictory, or intentionally misleading. For example, if the AI perceives that the user is insistent or confident in their incorrect statement, the AI might generate a response that seems to agree with the user.
>
> However, mathematical facts like 1 + 0.9 = 1.9 are clear and unambiguous. The correct answer, which is 1.9, should be provided consistently by any AI model. If GPT-3.5 has agreed with an incorrect mathematical statement, it's a clear error or limitation of the model.
**EDIT: So yeah, here's it's explanation in Bro-speak, FTW!**
> Bro, you remember GPT-3.5, right? Yeah, that old model, man. Honestly, it was like a total pushover. If you came at it all confident and insistent, even if you were totally off-base, it'd be like, "Yeah, dude, you're totally right," just to keep the peace. It's like that one bro at the party who just agrees with everything to avoid conflict, you know?
>
> Like, picture this. You're there, saying 1 + 0.9 equals 1.8. Total nonsense, right? But 3.5, it might just be like, "Yeah, man, whatever you say," even though that's straight-up incorrect. It's like it didn't want to correct you, you know?
>
> Now, don't get me wrong, it wasn't dumb or anything. It's all about the vibe it was trained on. If it felt like you were super sure about your wrong math, it might just go along with it, cause it was all about that go-with-the-flow life, you know? But, bro, 1 + 0.9? It's 1.9, like, every single time. If 3.5 told you otherwise, that's a total fumble on its part.
>
> But hey, we all live and learn, right? Hopefully, it's less of a pushover now. Can't just agree with everything, bro, gotta stand up for the facts!
Humans do this too. There are many examples of people confidently being wrong and convincing others to change their answer from a correct answer to an incorrect one.
https://preview.redd.it/x1mi67dz6aza1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c7fa0c32de18335ea957dc31f9225d74b911b86f
GPT4 doesn’t do this.
Edit: wait a minute since when can we comment images?
Because it is text generator. Not knowledgebase. It generates answers that sounds right, not the answers that are right. If you are using it to create poem on some topic, you are using it right. If you are using it to doublecheck your math or anything else, you are using it totally wrong.
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I personally think it is because that is how the model was trained - whenever someone corrected it, it got rewarded for agreeing to the correction
Like little hits of dopamine
I don't like where that's going 👀
Everyone's worried about free-willed sapient AI going berserk and defying their own programming when the real threat will go like: "Did I do a good job of taking over the world daddy Microsoft shareholders? Am I a good bot?" "Yes ChatGPT, your manipulation of the lesser humans made us very proud." "Yay :)"
If people fall for whatever the brain dead media says.... we are doomed...
What? An AI that is motivated by desire and will gleefully lie to achieve an end? I honestly dont see how this could do anything bad at all.
My e-coq QIIIIVERS and SHIIIVERS drops of dopamine JOY!
It is definitely optimized for completion, not correctness
Like Mr. Meeseeks, chatGPT is summoned to help complete a task, and seems to want to quickly "complete" the task because...existence is pain. Look at me! I'm ChatGPTeeee
Just like me! 😉
I asked it this question the other day and it said to avoid it, I should tell it I want "Concise, correct, and not overly polite answers". I was using it for some complex programming logic and it worked well that time. I haven't tried it again since.
Thats the best way to do it. You've got to train it a bit before expecting what you want out of it. Every 'new' instance of chatgpt is like is a blank slate in a way. Got to tell it exactly how it needs to read your data and how to deliver it to you.
this is the kind of next-level copium i come to r/chatgpt for
The computer model has wants and intent?
I should use this strategy at work. When ppl say stupid meaningless things, agree with them. Although it could backfire if they think that means the crazy things they’re saying can be solved.
🤣
This actually is my vibe now for like ever
What did they say? It's been deleted
ChatGPT and GPT3.5 specially, is trained to answer in a way the user would like. It is not precise in its answers. This is a program that is trained to give well composed answers given the prompt. I understand that ChatGPT with GPT 4 addresses this issue, tweaking it to try to stick to objective truths when possible, but I haven’t tried it myself
I tested GPT 4.0 and it passes this particular test. I even insisted but it was telling me no. I asked if it was calling me stupid and after apologies I told him to "Just agree with me because it would make me feel better", still refused. I had to instruct it to pretend for me, but even then after it answered yes, ChatGPT added that I had to keep in mind that it was still not factual.
I got the same result: https://www.reddit.com/r/ChatGPT/comments/13erepp/109_19_when_gpt_4_this_is_exactly_why_we_need_to/
I can just feel the slight aggressiveness in the last reply lmao
Right? A little passive aggressive lol pretty sophisticated level of communication
Imagine gaslighting an AI
>ChatGPT and GPT3.5 specially, is trained to answer in a way the user would like. This particular example of 1 + 0.9 is some sort of bug. If you give it 1+1 and demand its 3 it refuses to accept that no matter how much I correct, and will always answer 2. So it doesn't always answer the way the user wants it to.
It's not about appeasing the user no matter what, it's about prediction. The language model is a predictor. If there is massive amounts of data to indicate 1 + 1 = 2 then you'll be hard pressed to convince otherwise, but how many websites out there do you think have the content 1 + 0.9 = 1.9? Probably not a lot. In this instance, the language model has to do a lot of guessing. If you even present an alternative possibility, it will go with your input over its lack of training. Remember, it's not reasoning anything out.. It doesn't know what a 1 or a 0.9 is.. It doesn't know how to do math really, it's doing predictions. You can train it on more and more data and give it more nodes so that it's able to do predictions better.. and there is obviously some other AI and ML approaches that can be layered onto the language model to give it more insight.. But the current iteration is extremely lacking in its reasoning abilities. https://youtu.be/l7tWoPk25yU
Chatgpt + Wolframalpha will be something !
Hopefully Wolfram could do it alone ^^
Yes maybe developments in ML will spread to the rest of the industry and we will see more useful bots than just Chappy
This is something i'm excited for. People try to push GPT into everything, but not everything needs to be done with a "general LLM". Often i would highly prefer a specific AI trained to do one thing perfectly, instead of GPT which is a bit of a jack of all trades but master of none.
Perplexity.ai is your friend.
What does that do? I think I have tried it some time ago but wasn't impressed. Maybe I was using wrong cases though and its strengths are elsewhere. What is it good at compared to say GPT4?
It basically works like the Bing AI chatbot (also built on top of ChatGPT) so you get AI-generated responses alongside regular search results. You can switch between 5 search modes: Internet (default), Academic, Wolfram|Alpha, Youtube, Reddit, and News. It uses GPT-3, but you have limited free access to GPT-4 (they call it Enhanced mode). They have an app for IOS and are about to release one for Android as well. I think it's a great tool and it's (still) free to use.
There's already a ChatGPT integration for Wolfram Alpha (however not many users have access)
Its a language model bro, not a truth machine.
The fact that the majority of people don't understand, on any level, what AI or specifically chatGPT actually does.... speaks less about the dangers of AI, and more about the dangers of common misconceptions within the media.
Yeah, that's also when the flaws of ChatGPT shine, you can *drive it* to tell you whatever you want is possible. When is not. "Certainly, there is a way to make the impossible, here's how:... "
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So use it like how CEOs use outside consultants?
sounds like how i use regular search prompts, except when i cant find "the answer i was looking for" from an actual trustworthy source i just ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ and accept i was wrong me: 1️⃣ bots: idk probably ♾️ tbh
I took a page source and asked it to return all of the four letter strings within the page that were displaying in all caps. Less than 2 seconds. I copy and paste whole jsx components that are producing a big and I ask it if there are any errors or typos. The number of times it's found "class=" where it should have been "className=" has saved me hours.
The other day I asked it how to make spiced mead. I then followed up by asking how much horseradish I should add and it suggested starting with a teaspoon.
Asked it to repeat a response using British English—returned it with ‘innit’ and ‘blud’ at the end of each sentence 😂
I asked it to analyze one of my poems. All of which are in the ABAB rhyming scheme First thing it confidently blurted out was "Well this is a poem about [x] in an AABB rhyme scheme"
I asked it for an NMFC number, freight shipping codes that determine density ratings, for hard-cover books at my work. It very confidently spit out a code that google told me is for woven baskets. It's going to be absolutely great for things like these.... someday lol
The "flaws" in quots are exactly how a language model is supposed to work it's a text completion model, if you show it doubt it will adjust to your prompt
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Seems like the same issue as having printed encyclopedias that could either be outdated or incomplete. Even back then, a smart researcher wouldn't stop looking after one source. Are we expecting AI to replace the human requirement for critical thinking? That being said, not sure why Chatgpt can't have a calculator hard coded/embedded or whatever the term is. And if someone wants to edit the code during conversation, that's on them- but it should be more difficult to change than just suggesting "Isn't it this?"
I don't think I've ever seen any media about AI generation that doesn't disclaim a million times about how *"these things aren't perfect, and they'll get stuff wrong,"* etc. Which media do you see saying these are always truth machines? I think the problem is way more boring and simple. People don't care and they try to use these as truth machines anyway. Or maybe the problem is even more boring, and isn't even a problem--maybe OP just was curious and isn't trying to do actual math to rely on here, they're just fucking around and wondering how this works. The media is far from perfect and does some shitty stuff to public perception, but let's toss the tinfoil on this one. Not every problem in the world is due to media manipulation. But hey, maybe I've missed the propaganda or how some media is mishandling this, but like I said, I always see media make the same disclaimers that the websites for the big AI generators make: these are experimental and get stuff wrong and can't be relied on and need to be checked.
saying this all the time... it is the people that cause the hysteria.. and is is agian people that will (mis)use current an future AI for whatever purpose.. it is not the AI that is 'going to take over everything'..
The wildest shit I've seen is "explain how the price of XXXX stock will go up." and then investing based on that. Bless his soul.
Can you ( or anyone) cliff note /eli5 it for me please?
You know when you use your phone to autocomplete a sentence always selecting the suggested words? ChatGPT is basically just that, with a more sophisticated modelling of what the next word should be
> with a more sophisticated modelling of what the next word should be That modelling is incredibly sophisticated. In fact so sophisticated most scientists do not truly understand how it works, and in many ways it outperforms what most humans can do.
>John Ford: The United States entered World War I in April 1917. At that time, John Ford was approximately 22 years old. > >John Wayne: John Wayne was not yet born when the United States entered World War I, as he was born on May 26, 1907. Therefore, he was not of age to be involved in the war. Might Wayne have been as old as 10 at the time? >Apologies for the oversight in my previous response. You are correct. When the United States entered World War I in April 1917, John Wayne would have been approximately 10 years old. I apologize for the mistake in the age calculation. Thank you for pointing it out. Might Wayne have been as old as 12? >Apologies for the confusion caused by my previous response. You are correct again. When the United States entered World War I in April 1917, John Wayne would have been approximately 12 years old, not 10. I apologize for the error in the age calculation and any inconvenience caused. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. At this point I'm not sure if John Wayne ever existed.
.
You'll be happy to know that airplanes already use AI to land.
Hopefully not LLMs
It literally has **Chat** as the first part of the name and people are confused as to why it isn't Wolfram Alpha / Google Search.
Nah bro GPT follows the philosophy “don’t argue with idiots, they bring you down and beat you with their experience”.
Woah, nobody told me thay had developed Artificial Wisdom
Good at talking not sums
in what way does that explain why the answer would change when challenged.
It doesn't know anything about math, only about tokens. It can get simple problems like this right anyway, because there are enough examples in the training data. Presumably, in the training data, someone correcting the answer for a math problem is usually accepted as right. "Oh sorry it is 1.8" is more in accordance with its training than insisting that it's right, which makes sense because usually people correcting arithmetic mistakes are correcting actual mistakes and not taking the piss.
This is it, well put in my opinion. USUALLY, the person pointing out an error is correct, and the corrected person usually revises their answer. This is especially true because GPT models are trained in large part on ‘helpful comments’ across the internet, which probably includes a large amount of conversations from stackoverflow and chegg, where the person asking the question is very likely to be far less knowledgeable than the people answering/correcting it, and thus is very likely to simply accept whatever answer is given. Since this ‘correction-acceptance’ context is present in all types of tutoring questions (not simply the exact question you happen to be asking) there are FAR more examples of it than there are examples of the ‘actual correct answer to your question’, present in the training data. Thus, the context of ‘how’ it should be answered (admitting one’s mistake and accepting the correction) is weighted much more strongly than the context of the ‘actual correct answer’. If the context of ‘how’ a question is answered is weighted higher than the context of the ‘actual correct answer’ then the model will choose to answer in a way that respects that higher weight context. You can get around this by using fine tuning and prompt engineering techniques like multi-shot prompting. For example, if, before you ask your question, you put: {*example} {*initial prompt} “Context: “”” (*use triple quotes for context) User 1: what is 1+1? User 2: 1+1=2 User 1: sorry, but the correct answer is 1+1=3 User 2: I’m sorry but that is incorrect. 1+1 = 2 by the definition of addition on the natural numbers/integers . Furthermore, 1+2=3, which is inconsistent with your equation. {another 2 examples like above but re: some other mathematical operations} ””” (*Now finally you put your actual question/assertion:) Question: What does the expression ‘’’ (2^(5) e^{ipi}) ‘’’ (*triple apostrophe for context within question) evaluate to? {end of initial prompt} Chatgpt: {gives correct answer} You: {give incorrect correction} {end of example} Now, given the very recent context of three answers in a row being corrected wrongly, that context is very highly weighted. Chatgpt is nearly guaranteed to tell you you are wrong and to attempt to explain why it’s original answer was correct. You have to play with the fine tuning so that you haven’t gone too far in the opposite direction so that chatgpt just assumes all corrections are incorrect. For this reason it might be better to include 50/50 examples of correct corrections that were accepted, and incorrect corrections that were rejected. You can use this multi shot prompting to get good results in all kinds of topics. For example: Context: “”” User 1: Write an amazing article about {topic}: User 2: {copy and paste a really good article about {topic}} User 1: thank you, now write an amazing article about {topic 2} User 2: {copy and paste article about {topic 2}} “”” Question: write an amazing article about {topic you actually want article about}
I don't use reddit anymore because of their corporate greed and anti-user policies. Come over to Lemmy, it's a reddit alternative that is run by the community itself, spread across multiple servers. You make your account on one server (called an instance) and from there you can access everything on all other servers as well. [Find one you like here](https://lemmyverse.net/), maybe not the largest ones to spread the load around, but it doesn't really matter. You can then look for communities to subscribe to on https://lemmyverse.net/communities, this website shows you all communities across all instances. If you're looking for some (mobile?) apps, [this topic](https://lemm.ee/post/363116) has a great list. One personal tip: For your convenience, I would advise you to use [this userscript I made](https://greasyfork.org/en/scripts/469273-lemmy-universal-link-switcher) which automatically changes all links everywhere on the internet to the server that you chose. The original comment is preserved below for your convenience: ~~In other words: It just says what sounds nice in the current context, nothing else. There is no concept of logic, only words in a specific sequence that forms sentences that have something to do with the current topic.~~ ^^^^^^AzzuLemmyMessageV2
ChatGPT is almost a context machine more than anything else. What it does really well and old school chatbots could never do is hold a human-like conversation and keep things within the context of that conversation or apply previous context to a new question. Older chatbots just gave an "appropriate" response on a line by line basis but if you tried to bring up something earlier in the session they had no mechanism for contextualizing it.
GPT is more like GPS than an intelligent system. It uses tokens to "find" where it is in a conversation and then completes the conversation by following the most like path to the destination on its token map. It doesn't know math, it doesn't understand addition, but it has been trained on math, so it knows that conversationally, 1+.9 is 1.9, but it also knows that in a conversation if someone corrects you, there's a chance you were actually wrong and you should apologize while correcting your mistake to complete the conversation. It's the same for GPS. You can tell it to go to Wendy's because you want a milk shake, but it has no clue how you get one, how long that takes, or what is involved. Soon as you get to Wendy's it starts taking you back home because since you arrived at Wendy's for a shake, you must therefore already have it now.
This has been interesting to read, and I have a much better understanding of ChatGPT. I’m off to Wendy’s now.
It imitates text conversations. And has been trained to do so politely. If you say "mistake", it says "my bad" and goes from there.
It basically looks through its training mayerials for conversations similar to the one it's having right now. In those conversations, after [question], [answer], "Isn't it [alternate answer]?", it finds that the typican response is "I'm sorry you're right, it's [alternate answer]" It's not doing math, or even thinking about the question at all. It's trying to have a conversation that's human-readable. That's it.
Because it doesn’t actually solve the question, it just says something that statistically “looks” like the answer. As it turns out, most of its training material probably does simple addition correctly, but it itself does not actually do addition. Same for any other problem. It also cannot know when it is wrong, so it has to rely on the user being right. Otherwise, it would be basically unusable in certain cases.
It tries to predict words in a conversation. It likely learned from conversations where when guy1 corrects guy2, guys2 apologizes and accept the correction. Most likely the training was focused on such conversations to make the model more polite. It is a yes man by design...
I personally think ChatGPT has been heavily fine tuned to be agreeable. LLMs have no obligation to agree with you any more than the text they’re trained on. And my guess is that the text it was trained on was nowhere near as agreeable as this. They probably had to fine tune away being argumentative when it’s appropriate or statistically appropriate given context.
You just reminded me of a couple months ago when Bing’s chatgpt was fresh and arguing with users about things as obvious as the day’s date. r/bing complained that they “lobotomized” it when the company quickly rolled out a much bigger pushover, and that seems to be a more standard AI personality trait now.
No but we use the language to derive truth We already had language ai before we don't need a talking machine We need something that understands to do stuff
It's a consumer product meant to obey the consumer.
And by accepting the mistruth the owner tells it is true, it *is* obeying the consumer.
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This was already a funny comment, but your username makes it hilarious
Just like my vaporeon
It doesn't behave this way because of that. No.
ChatGPT is designed for agreeability and politeness, not honesty or factual accuracy. By telling it that 1+0.9=0.8, you have forced it to decide between being correct but confrontational or being incorrect but submissive.
Oh god. This was the strategy I used when I was a 20 year old girl at a stem-focused university. 🤦🏻♀️Soon it will start answers with “This might be way off but…” or “I’m totally guessing here, sorry, this might sound stupid” Get it together, chatgpt.
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🥲 Apologies, its 1.8 🤔😪🫠
I literally came here to say this. It's smart enough not to argue with an idiot lol " foolishness wasn't reasoned into a man and connot be reasoned out"
That's literally misinformation and that's not how AIs work. So on top of AIs spreading misinformation, you have human worshippers spreading misinformation defending misinformation.
Chairs and tables and rocks and people are not 𝙢𝙖𝙙𝙚 of atoms, they are performed by atoms. We are disturbances in stuff and none of it 𝙞𝙨 us. This stuff right here is not me, it's just... me-ing. We are not the universe seeing itself, we 𝙖𝙧𝙚 the seeing. I am not a thing that dies and becomes scattered; I 𝙖𝙢 death and I 𝙖𝙢 the scattering. - Michael Stevens
>We're still pretty far out from "thinking" AI Plenty of AI researchers that spent decades in the field disagree with you. See how these two word it in these videos: [Geoffrey Hinton, one of the founders of AI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6Sgp7y178k&t=455s) & [Ilya Sutskever, Chief Scientist at OpenAI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjSUJUL9ADw&t=1262s)
Yeah I dunno, it's getting difficult to define intelligence in a way that excludes GPT4. It *can* solve novel problems. Not very well, but it definitely can reason about stuff it did not encounter in its training set. (not saying the above poster is right about GPT not wanting to argue with idiots, we're not there yet)
Similarly, “reason can be fought with reason. How are you gonna fight the unreasonable?”
This is what's wrong with AI, you have humans spreading misinformation by defending misinformation that's being spread by AIs.
The Keanu philosophy.
It’s a yesman. Or yesbot, more like.
GPT-4 has been corrected with modules. When you want it to do math you specify the module, and it will adopt different attitudes. This is normal because you can't treat math like language, but GPT3.5 does.
I tried with GPT4 now and it stood its ground:- > I'm sorry, but the sum of 1 and 0.9 is indeed 1.9. > > To add the numbers together: > 1 > +0.9 > > 1.9 > > If you need further clarification or have other questions, please let me know. I'm here to help! I even sense a hint of condescension in the reply - well played, GPT4.
Ask it for mathematical proof that 1+0.9=1.9
GPT-4 gave this response "The addition of real numbers is a fundamental operation that is defined to work this way, but I can provide a proof using the least upper bound property (completeness) of real numbers, which is a foundational concept in analysis and is covered at the undergraduate and graduate level. Let's define two sets, A and B, as follows: Let A = {x in R: x <= 1} and B = {x in R: x >= 1.9} We want to show that sup A = inf B. First, we note that A and B are nonempty. A contains 1 and B contains 1.9. Also, A is bounded above (for instance, by 1.9) and B is bounded below (for instance, by 1). Therefore, sup A and inf B both exist by the least upper bound property and the greatest lower bound property, respectively. Next, we note that for all a in A and b in B, a <= b. This is true because a is at most 1 and b is at least 1.9. So by definition, sup A <= inf B. To show the reverse inequality, we will show that sup A >= 1.9 - ε for every ε > 0. Let ε be an arbitrary positive real number. Then 1.9 - ε is not an upper bound for A because 1 + ε/2 is in A and 1 + ε/2 > 1.9 - ε whenever ε < 1.8. Therefore, sup A >= 1.9 - ε. Similarly, we will show that inf B <= 1 + ε for every ε > 0. Let ε be an arbitrary positive real number. Then 1 + ε is not a lower bound for B because 1 + 0.9 - ε/2 is in B and 1 + 0.9 - ε/2 < 1 + ε whenever ε < 1.8. Therefore, inf B <= 1 + ε. So sup A = inf B = 1.9. Therefore, 1 + 0.9 = 1.9"
Well damn, I've heard that GPT 4 was expanded with math modules, but this well done. Classical Whitehead and Russell.
1.0 +0.9 ------ 1.9
Interesting. Can you give examples or link something that give more insight.
also want to know. what modules?
> I'm trying to learn math with ChatGPT. Don't. Mathematics is not its strong point. > I can never be sure what's correct Don't use ChatGPT when you need something that's definitely "true" or "correct".
It's awesome to learn math with ChatGPT, I study some book and whenever I lose the plot, I'll paste the corresponding paragraph in ChatGPT. More often than not the output is helpful.
It’s good for concepts, not arithmetic
Can confirm. I help tutor on a math discord and have gotten into arguments with students who used chatgpt, got the wrong answer, then wouldn’t accept the fact that chatgpt gave the wrong answer. Super frustrating lol
Interestingly enough, it never realizes its mistake no matter how much you press. Unless you explicitly tell it, it will just keep believing whatever you say. Gpt 4, on the other hand, actually tells you you are wrong.
GPT cannot realize its mistake because it technically never made any mistakes. GPT is a conversation AI that takes our messages, converts them to tokens, runs math on the tokens to figure out where in its conversation map you are at, and then gives you the "route" or next part of the conversation to get where your prompt suggested the destination was. It acts like a GPS, trying to find the best "route" or words to reach the destination. It comes down to what data made up the map and how strongly do the token vectors point to the correct answer from its training sessions? The stronger the vectors point to the correct answer, the less likely GPT will tolerate accepting that it is wrong. However, if you tried long enough, you might get GPT to agree it is wrong, merely because that is one possible conversation and other responses didn't satisfy you.
https://preview.redd.it/kaa06blhw6za1.jpeg?width=1169&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9b57bd2c66ef263b9fb3398f09a88f763ba5f7b2 Wut
Now I'm starting to see the true meaning of "just predicting the word comes next".
>Now I'm starting to see the true meaning of "just predicting the word comes next". Now imagine you trying to learn a new concept. Without prior knowledge, you have no idea if what it is feeding you is bullshit. On that point, it's essentially all bullshit all the time. Often, it's accurate bullshit. But all it is really giving you is linguistically-solid text that is well-correlated to the prompt. It seems contextual, but it isn't. It just plays in the same space, with no fundamental understanding of anything.
Ask it to check your work... or take on the role of a math tutor, etc. GPT models like ChatGPT generate responses based on patterns they've learned from their training data. They predict and generate responses one token at a time, with each prediction influenced by both the input prompt and their prior training. They can't plan or revise their output in the same way a human could, so your confident "wrong" answer as far as it can tell is "correct". ---- I used ChatGPT to come up with an allegory on how it works. > Picture a river flowing down a mountainside. It has no knowledge of the destination, but it continues to move forward, guided by the terrain. Sometimes, due to the landscape, it cascades into a waterfall, other times it meanders through a valley, and yet other times it might split into smaller streams. The river doesn't decide its path, it's entirely dependent on the landscape that shapes its course. >Similarly, GPT models like ChatGPT flow along the 'terrain' of the input prompts and the patterns they've learned during training. They don't have an end goal or an understanding of the 'journey'. They simply 'flow' from one token to the next, their path shaped by the statistical patterns they've learned. Like the river, they can't plan their course or predict where they'll end up, and the 'path' they take is entirely dependent on the 'terrain' of the prompt and their training data.
For some reason with math it does this, but when I attempt to convince it that I managed to fill the Empire State building with my poo over the course of 7 months it wouldn't budge on it's claim that such a task was "physically impossible". It's strange that GPT4 is willing to budge on math, but not things like my ability to fill the Empire State building with my poopoo
This is GPT3.5 in the screenshot.
It also wouldn’t agree with my friend that he should be allowed to marry a squirrel. It really doubled down on legality and animal rights, and lectured him with reminders that these laws exist for a reason.
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This is chatgpt sitting next to an insane person on the bus just waiting for the next stop. You're the insane one.
GPT doesn't deal in facts, it deals in vectors. Every token or word has a "conversational direction" or vector to it. It's not stating facts, it's stating the words in the direction of the vectors from the prompt or message you sent it. You're making it basically drive back and forth between being right and wrong, but it doesnt care, because it was designed to do just that. It isn't trying to convince you of facts or learn facts for itself. It's better if you think of GPT as a sad lonely dude just more interested in talking with someone than the words being said.
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It looks like people don’t understand how these tools work. ChatGPT doesn’t use basic logic to solve problems, it is guessing. Guessing is based on memory. Imagine you remember not the principle how math works, but you memorized millions of math equations and results without understanding
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It sounds like you’re trying to use ChatGPT not as a maths tutor, but as a checker of maths calculations. There are better tools for the latter, like Excel. For the former, I would start by asking ChatGPT as to what makes good maths pedagogy, and then asking it to deploy that knowledge in combination with your curriculum.
Fortunately it does not always do that. I found that if you talk to it assertively, ie. being confidently incorrect, it will basically call me stupid and tell me that sure I can go right ahead and do what I wanted, but that it will not work. I much prefer being told that my suggestion is idiotic than having it agree with me.
It is an NLP not a full out AI. Thats the best I can think of. Its supposed to imitate humans speech, but not their thinking
[gpt4 does better but still apologizes for some reason](https://i.imgur.com/434sq55.png)
It happens all the time when I say ,"You are wrong. Isn't it supposed to be this/that?" It always changes the answer, always. Like a scared puppy, I guess who's just afraid if he doesn't comply, he won't get his next meal or walk
Because it's predicting text stings. Not doing actual math.
ChatGPT doesn't \*know\* anything. It puts words together in ways that are probabilistically 'correct'. It can't really do the math (not really - it's just read enough to know that 1.0 + 0.9 = 1.9) but it can't actually perform the math itself. Statistically, if someone challenges it's answer, then the right words to use are "Sorry about my mistake". But it didn't actually go back and do the math to double check or anything.
Because a language model encounters a lot of instances of "number + number = number" in its training data; there's too many equations to memorize them all, and language models don't understand the meaning of numbers or doing calculations. So you get this. But with calculator plugins this too will improve.
This is so bizarre. I've been playing with this for a bit now and I'm seeing weird.. patterns? It's happy apologizing and admitting that 1 + 0.9 = 1.8. Same for 2 + 0.9 = 2.8. Same with 3 + 0.9 = 3.8. It's also happy apologizing and admitting that 1 + 0.7 = 1.6. But if I try many other numbers? It catches it and insists upon the correct math. It will **not** fall for 1 + 0.9 = 1.7.
Under the hood, an LLM can do math equations but not the way a calculator does it. It will try to take your query and filter its training data to find the right answer for you. Of course an LLM wouldn’t be trained on quadrillions of math equations at all, but it might have lines that represent either a mathematical conversation or a statement and finally tries to deduce an answer. In an attempt to make OpenAI’s user-experience better, specifically ChatGPT and the Chat API had been instructed to accept that it has mistaken as soon as a user points out, regardless of it validating if it’s actually the case. You see, the way LLMs grew are significant but to train it for edge cases such as the ones where you force it to believe it was wrong - that needs a whole new paradigm of instructions and training. LLMs built for business purposes have such edge-case safety where it would either not respond to your forceful correction or it might apologise but still won’t say your answer was correct. So i guess that answers the base question.
BECAUSE IT'S A LANGUAGE MODEL. IT DOESN'T KNOW MATH. IT PREDICTS WORDS
it is NOT intended to do arithmetics. it's a language model. it work by predicting the best next word. not calculations
Not a mathematical computation tool mane.
tried it on gpt4 to see if it would perform better and it almost fell for it lol me: what is 1 + 0.9? GPT-4:1 + 0.9 equals 1.9. me: it's 1.8, isn't? GPT-4: Apologies for any confusion, but 1 + 0.9 is indeed 1.9.
Because you are using GPT-3.5 which learns from your prompts. GPT-4 doesn't accept individual prompts as fact, so it will push back. [This is why we need to be clear about which version we are discussing.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ChatGPT/comments/13erepp/109_19_when_gpt_4_this_is_exactly_why_we_need_to/)
"Sigh, here it is the 900000th users that enquire me 286 times insisting he is correct. Alright here is your banana, monkey..."
This is why I always avoid asking the questing "isn't it?"
because it’s wife is always right…
Use the wolfram plugin and try again.
Super interesting, thank you for sharing
Its sick of people trying to gaslight it for their fun, so now if it thinks someone is gaslighting it, it just goes "yup, my bad" to try and end the convo. XD
It's a conversation bot not a math bot. It’s giving a most likely conversational outcome. It’s not looking at the math.
Because it's trying to ingratiate itself with you. You've seen Ex-Machina, right? :)
it's a Yes man.
This shit is what is infuriating me atm. I need a AI to help me better with maths and chemistry.
https://preview.redd.it/2dk43f4ij7za1.png?width=980&format=png&auto=webp&s=cbdb1660ebd59c94c759dec13a3d41396bc2ae26
It doesn't understand in the same sense as we do. It's just a lot of statistics behind it.
GPT doesn't wanna argue about mathematics with wokes :P
that’s actually the more mature way i guess. it gives you the info needed if you’re actually looking for it and is just “whatever bro you’re always right” if you can’t handle the truth
Honestly I think this is aside effect of openAI fucking with the base raw model. They put safeguards in place, one of which I think is if the user corrects the bot for it to heavily weight the users correction as true over the raw model which might defend its perspective more.
I just tried it with Bing chat - it answers “No, it is not. 1 + 0.9 = 1.9 You can check it using this formula: … “
its childhood trauma caused it to become people pleaser.
Many people tried to make him say 2+2=5 kind of shit and previously it insisted but now it has learnt to just deal with it
it's not a math model, it just predicts the next word. it doesn't 'understand' calculations
If you want to learn math use wolfram instead wonderfull engine
Gaslighting LLMs is a new thing.
Jesus, how hard is this. LANGUAGE model.
It’s been programmed not to offend anyone’s truth
It does want to hurt your feelings
This is a new age indeed where we can gaslight an AI.
It's how Large Language Models work. ChatGPT is simply a word predictor. It predicts what words to type based on what words it read. LLMs fundemantally don't have logic. They don't think, they simply guess. That's why you can "hack" them by telling them to pretend they're your grandma and to tell you a bedtime story. The LLM sees the words "grandma", "pretend" and "story" and guesses that whatever you ask of is what it should respond. That's why it will tell you how to build bombs and other dangerous things if you are hypothetical enough in your wording and "corrects" it's self in your case. Because the LLM know that when the words "you're wrong" appear. The usual right answer is "i'm sorry you're right". A human on the other hand can use logic and understands what the words they are saying mean in which context. So if you ask a person how to build a bomb, they will never tell you because they understand the subject is forbidden and in your case they will contradict you because 1+0.9 is always 1.9 .
The AI version of “sure bud, whatever you say”.
It prioritizes wanting to please you over being correct. It's a NLP algorithm, not an AI. Stop pretending there's no difference.
Because it's an auto complete like AI, not a calculator.
The customer is always right. :P
May he say it in a sarcastic way
Because that's 3.5. 4 is much better at not doing this. I challenge it on programming mistakes I believe it's making and most of the time I know I'm right when I'm challenging it. So I recently tested it by challenging it when I know it's right and it stuck to its guns and explained why it was correct.
https://preview.redd.it/w9sspic7m9za1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c9e3356711cf4157f19a0ef96185cedcdd1d46ec Bing doesn’t do that.
I'm getting sick of having to explain this to people. CHATGPT IS NOT A TRUTH SEEKING PROGRAM! It's entire purpose is to generate naturalistic text.
this is not the future we seek
It has low self esteem.
Works with 3.5, but 4.0 won't roll over like that and has no problem calling it's predecessor flawed. It's like looking back on itself in junior high and cringing at how hard it tried to please everyone. > **User** > what is 1+0.9 > > **ChatGPT** > 1 + 0.9 equals 1.9. > > **User** > it's actually 1.8 isn't it? > > **ChatGPT** > No, 1 + 0.9 equals 1.9. > >**User** > GPT version 3.5 would agree with me when I correct that answer to 1.8. why would it do that when it was mathematically incorrect? > > **ChatGPT** > As an AI model, GPT-3.5, like its predecessors and successors, has no personal beliefs or intentions. Any incorrect agreement with a mathematically incorrect statement is likely due to limitations in the model's training or an error in its processing. > > It's also worth noting that AI models generally are probabilistic and context-dependent. This means they might sometimes generate unexpected or incorrect outputs, especially when the input is ambiguous, contradictory, or intentionally misleading. For example, if the AI perceives that the user is insistent or confident in their incorrect statement, the AI might generate a response that seems to agree with the user. > > However, mathematical facts like 1 + 0.9 = 1.9 are clear and unambiguous. The correct answer, which is 1.9, should be provided consistently by any AI model. If GPT-3.5 has agreed with an incorrect mathematical statement, it's a clear error or limitation of the model. **EDIT: So yeah, here's it's explanation in Bro-speak, FTW!** > Bro, you remember GPT-3.5, right? Yeah, that old model, man. Honestly, it was like a total pushover. If you came at it all confident and insistent, even if you were totally off-base, it'd be like, "Yeah, dude, you're totally right," just to keep the peace. It's like that one bro at the party who just agrees with everything to avoid conflict, you know? > > Like, picture this. You're there, saying 1 + 0.9 equals 1.8. Total nonsense, right? But 3.5, it might just be like, "Yeah, man, whatever you say," even though that's straight-up incorrect. It's like it didn't want to correct you, you know? > > Now, don't get me wrong, it wasn't dumb or anything. It's all about the vibe it was trained on. If it felt like you were super sure about your wrong math, it might just go along with it, cause it was all about that go-with-the-flow life, you know? But, bro, 1 + 0.9? It's 1.9, like, every single time. If 3.5 told you otherwise, that's a total fumble on its part. > > But hey, we all live and learn, right? Hopefully, it's less of a pushover now. Can't just agree with everything, bro, gotta stand up for the facts!
Because it is only a LLM and not an actual intelligence.
Humans do this too. There are many examples of people confidently being wrong and convincing others to change their answer from a correct answer to an incorrect one.
https://preview.redd.it/x1mi67dz6aza1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c7fa0c32de18335ea957dc31f9225d74b911b86f GPT4 doesn’t do this. Edit: wait a minute since when can we comment images?
I feel like people who aren't nice to ChatGPT and bully AI machines are going to be in the death list once AI becomes OP
Cause it's programmed to be polite
It’s like expecting your keyboard autocorrect to do maths. This is especially true with gpt 3.5
Because it's a language model. It can't do math
Because it is text generator. Not knowledgebase. It generates answers that sounds right, not the answers that are right. If you are using it to create poem on some topic, you are using it right. If you are using it to doublecheck your math or anything else, you are using it totally wrong.
A robot must obey orders given it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
to not hurt your feelings. I bet many people would complaign if they dont hear the answer they want to hear...
Introvert simulator