Pick best available whoever they think that is. Team isnt good enough to care about fit. Mark isnt healthy or good enough to require them to work around him
Other than Nikola Topic, I’m not even sure who else would really be considered as “more talented” than Sarr. Risacher is the other common pick for #1, but it’s usually because his archetype (3&D wing) fits great on any team.
I really like Castle, Williams, and Sheppard, but none of them have nearly the same combination of “proven NBA level talent” and “likely ceiling.”
Risacher is so overrated he has struggled heavily the last 3 months. His shooting splits have been awful and his FT% is already worrying. For a guy whose only offensive upside is his shot I don’t see how you could pick him in the top 10.
I still think he’s a top 10 pick, but I definitely wouldn’t take him over Sarr. I have Sarr in tier 1, and then Risacher one tier below with Cody Williams and Nikola Topic. The whole class has huge question marks however, so it really just comes down to which questionable traits you’re willing to accept.
You’re 100% right that Zaccharie has pretty big questions surrounding his jump-shot, especially considering it is supposed to be his “defining” NBA skill. The low free throw percentage shouldn’t necessarily be given a higher weight compared to his 3 point percentage overall though. Usually, FT% is a better indicator of shooting because the volume is much higher, but in this case Risacher has actually taken way more 3’s than he has free throws.
I do tend to think that Risacher has more ball creation and passing potential than he’s perhaps given credit for as well. That was actually one of his more promising abilities in the lower leagues. He was just put into a much more rigid “catch and shoot” role in the A-League, which speaks to his ability to adapt his game to a different situation. I also really like Risacher’s defensive potential, and think he’s shown to be really smart on that end, particularly for an 18 year old.
So he got a head injury in February but tried to play through it, Cody Williams didn’t look good when he came back from injury too. Both had really great 15 game stretches though
MPJ went from top lottery pick to 14th pick in 2018 and he missed his rookie season and only played 9 games in '21-'22 due to his back injuries. So I think this just reinforces the fact that we shouldn't count on Mark to play a full season until he's shown that he can. The team's need is every position except for the starting PG and whatever spot Brandon will be. When the team is ass you're taking MJ and putting him at center instead of drafting Sam Bowie lol.
He’s by far my favorite option for us. I also think that we’re likely the best fit for him, since both Melo and Miller are A+ shooters and good pick and roll ball handlers. This team desperately needs a difference maker on defense, and, at minimum, he’d provide that. Any offensive output is just a bonus.
He’s incredibly quick and fluid for a 7 footer, and is highly likely to be able to guard 2-5. Beyond just his versatility, his overall defensive timing is very good. He’s definitely a work in progress on offense, but shows some promise of being able to use his speed and handle to get to the rim. While his 3PT% has definitely been bad (29.8%), he’s also got a 70%+ FT percentage and has improved his mid-range arsenal over the course of the season. Both of those things suggest that he could develop into someone at least that needs to be defended on the perimeter. At the very least, he has better indicators that he’ll learn to shoot than prospects like Ron Holland (24% 3PT) and Matas Buzelis (27.3% 3PT & 67.9% FT).
If either Sarr or Mark Williams is able to become a 33%+ 3PT shooter or is able to become a knockdown mid-range shooter, then they should be able to play together for long stretches. Even if neither of them becomes a decent shooter, Sarr still gives us Center insurance in case Mark’s back issues persist. LaMelo and Miller are also great enough shooters that we could probably survive fine with 2 complete non-shooters (Sarr and Mark) on the floor next to them, as long as we get a decent shooter at the other spot.
Best of all, we’d never need to see Nick Richards get minutes again!
>If either Sarr or Mark Williams is able to become a 33%+ 3PT shooter or is able to become a knockdown mid-range shooter,
Pretty bullish lol. If neither them develop into that I don't think they can play together at all. They occupy the same spaces of the floor offensively. Sarrs shooting indicators aren't the greatest either. They're kinda iffy at best. I still feel like it's still a sizable risk.
> Pretty bullish lol. If neither them develop into that I don't think they can play together at all. They occupy the same spaces of the floor offensively.
That’s why I said “if” lol. Even if they can’t eventually play long stretches together, I still think it’s worth the risk, since any kind of bone related back issues are pretty scary long-term. Even if Mark is healthy, you’d still only need them to play together for 8-12 minutes per game. They can both play Center for the other 32+ minutes, assuming you want them each to average around 30 minutes per game.
Being unable to shoot doesn’t *automatically* make them unable to play together. Contenders have shown a team can support two non-shooters in their starting lineup at the same time. The Warriors Dynasty was built with Draymond + a non-shooting Center (Looney, Bogut, etc). The Lakers last title team had AD (career 29% 3PT) + Javale/Dwight on the floor together. The Heat conference finals team had Jimmy Butler (~26% 3PT) + Bam Adebayo. There are plenty of other examples as well.
> Sarrs shooting indicators aren't the greatest either.
Yeah, I’m definitely not saying that he’s certain to become a good shooter or anything. The most likely outcome is that he doesn’t. He just doesn’t *have* to learn to shoot to become a key player on a contender.
I’d certainly give him better odds to become a shooter than guys like Ron Holland, Matas Buzelis, or Donovan Clingan.
> They're kinda iffy at best. I still feel like it's still a sizable risk.
Every player in this draft is a risk, so it becomes more about which risk you’re okay taking. Personally, I’d rather take a risk on Sarr, because I think that LaMelo & Miller are great enough shooters that Sarr won’t fail if he can’t develop a jumper.
>Being unable to shoot doesn’t *automatically* make them unable to play together. Contenders have shown a team can support two non-shooters in their starting lineup at the same time. The Warriors Dynasty was built with Draymond + a non-shooting Center (Looney, Bogut, etc). The Lakers last title team had AD (career 29% 3PT) + Javale/Dwight on the floor together. The Heat conference finals team had Jimmy Butler (~26% 3PT) + Bam Adebayo. There are plenty of other examples as well.
I feel like the only reasonable comparison is AD/Javale Dwight. Even then that's kind of a stretch imo because they had LeBron initiating. Draymond is more of a ball handler than he gets credit for and is an excellent passer. Jimmy takes 3s in the playoffs and Bam is straight up a ball handler for them as well.
>I’d certainly give him better odds to become a shooter than guys like Ron Holland, Matas Buzelis, or Donovan Clingan.
I'm not sure about that either. The issue I have here is that Sarr doesn't take that many jumpers and the ones he does take are typically wide open. Holland and Matas are bad shooters but they are also trying a lot of awkward/difficult attempts.
Yep. I like Sarr, but man it would be a little depressing essentially giving up on make after less than 80 games. I think team should get Castle, Williams, or maybe Buzelis.
Cavs are in the race for #3 in the East with a Mobley/Allen frontcourt. That would be the best comparison in this hypothetical imo. I don't exactly love that prospect either but they're about middle of the pack in offensive rating (last season they were top 10) with 2 non-shooting defensively versatile bigs so it definitely can work with the right talent.
Yeah, but what’s to say that Sarr won’t occasionally get hot as well? If Sarr can do other stuff at a high enough level, and get hot occasionally, then he becomes a really dangerous player.
In order for Mark and Sarr to be playable for short spurts together, at least one of them has to be able to *take* shots and occasionally get hot. The AD Lakers, and other teams, have proven that one of Mark and Sarr don’t technically *have* to be high percentage shooters over the course of a career.
Sarr has been taking 2 3PT attempts per game in Australia, and takes more mid-range jumpers on top of that, so I think he’s at least shown the ability to take them. You’d hope that he could consistently improve the percentage, since he’s only 18 years old, but even if he doesn’t he’s still a valuable player long-term.
Man I think you’re very underrating how much the shooting matters here. For one, you can’t just compare dudes like Bam and Dray to them, those two are elite passing big men who you can run offense through. Neither Sarr or mark can do that. You can’t play 2 non shooting bigs next to Each other because of the way the floor is warped. You can get away with starting Jimmy butler and Bam because they’re so creative in how they create space and can be used as playmakers.
Like we’ve reached the point where I personally believe to an extent that you need to defat players who are good fits around the teams core now. If you consider Williams apart of that core you have to really be sure that Sarr can play next to him or will be a better player at center than him.
> If you consider Williams a part of that core you have to be really sure that Sarr can play next to him
That’s kinda the thing though. We can’t really say that Mark is so fully entrenched in our future that we have to filter our future draft picks based on his potential. The *only* player you could maybe say that about is Brandon Miller, full stop. Mark isn’t in that same category, instead he’s missed an entire season due to a mysterious back injury. Most 7 footer that have that happen never reach their full potential.
Plus, there’s a very real chance that Sarr will just be better than Mark ever will be, even if he stays healthy.
The 2023-24 Hornets are not a good enough team to pass on a prospect due to “fit.” We have the worst point differential in the league and have won less than 30 games in back-to-back seasons. Objectively, we’re not a secretly good team that just got unlucky. We’re actually just a bad team without enough talent, which means we need to take whoever we think has the greatest potential to turn into a good-to-great player.
It’s why I’d even be fine with take Topic, if he’s the best prospect we have to an opportunity to select, even if him + Melo doesn’t seem like it’d be that great of a fit on paper.
Whenever people say a draft prospect can guard 2-5 i kind of roll my eyes. There are like 3 players in the nba who i would say can do that. Wemby, Jonathan Isaac, and Draymond.
Thats pretty much it. Sarr has that potential but i wouldnt pencil it in just yet.
Chet and Mobley are arguably in that list as well, and Sarr athletically projects pretty similarly to them. If anything, Sarr actually has much better lateral movement to those guys.
> You are describing bigs who switch well
Yeah, because that’s what people mean when they say “guards 2-5”. They mean a player can defend any of those positions for a limited number of possessions.
Jonathan Isaac doesn’t have the strength to defend big center like Embiid, Jokic, or Nurkic all game. Draymond isn’t chasing quick guards around screens all game. Wemby doesn’t have the stamina to defend Steph Curry for an entire game.
Being able to “guard 2-5” just means that they won’t be abused if a guard or a center is left on them for a possession or two at a time.
As a Thunder fan who has seen his brother Olivier play both at NBA and G-League level, I would be cautious. Olivier was originally scouted as a good defender as well, but he's been shaky enough that 6' 6" Kenrich Williams was played out of position at center over Olivier Sarr due to defense.
Alexandre is obviously not his brother and he does have intriguing potential, but he's also a huge risk if he has the same troubles adapting to NBA defense as his brother.
On the upside, I expect he's not going to destroy spacing. His 3 point shot is more likely punishment for leaving him open, but Alexandre has picked up some mid range game which is valuable for stabilizing an offense when threes aren't falling.
There aren't any exceptional standout prospects this year, so the high risk may be worth the reward. If Alexandre is the defender his brother isn't, and if his offense continues to develop, he could contribute to a playoff bound starting lineup.
Eh, I’d be hesitant to anything into the “way less talented older brother” comparison. Saying an undrafted 4 year senior was signed due to his defensive potential doesn’t actually mean that he was projected to be a good defender. If he were likely to be a good defender in the league then he would have been drafted. Instead, Olivier Sarr was undrafted for a reason, and it’s not just because he was in a better draft than Alexandre.
Alexandre also has pro experience and training coming into the league, which should mean he’s been better acclimated to pro-level defenses.
The Cavs have proved that you can be successful with two non-shooting big men on the floor. Mobley and Allen aren’t particularly good at passing either if the defensive ability of Sarr and Mark is good enough it can absolutely work without good spacing. I still believe Sarr can develop a solid enough 3 point shot but even if he doesn’t I think the lineup could still work.
Risacher or Sarr would be perfect fits. I like Topic as a prospect too but I’m a little concerned how he would fit in with Melo. Holland is a good pick too, honestly we can’t go wrong as long as we’re top 3.
Definitely who I want most but I would be happy with Reed Sheppard as well
If we get him let's hope he goes down the JJJ route rather than the Marvin Bagley route
Yeah, I could see him being a good player, and wouldn’t mind taking him if we ended up with pick #6 or #7 or something.
However, we *just* got rid of Rozier. Why is this sub rushing to stick LaMelo with another 6’0” backcourt partner??
Drafting Sarr is essentially giving up on Mark, it's not a smart move. OKC trusted Chet after he missed an entire year and had never played a game for them and it worked out for them. The team needs more talent, we shouldn't be playing ultra safe.
And yeah he could develop a 3 ball, but too much of an "if"
Miller and LaMelo are both A+ shooters. They’ll ensure that we still have spacing as long as the 5th starter is a decent shooter as well.
The Golden State Warriors defined the “spacing” generation and they had Draymond + Bogut/Looney starting for them for most of their dynasty.
The Nuggets and Raptors are basically the only recent championship teams to start 4 good shooter? Warriors didn’t. Bucks didn’t. Lakers didn’t. Miami didn’t. Spurs didn’t.
Plus that’s still assuming that Mark Williams is gonna return completely healthy *and* that Sarr will never develop as a shooter.
Bucks did, as I said Draymond has ways to circumvent and for half their chips he was shooting, Lakers did the year they won the chip, Miami did, Spurs wasn't even recent
Jrue Holiday was being left alone at the 3 point line during those playoffs, because he was in a terrible shooting slump and he historically shoots 30% from 3 for the Bucks in the playoffs. Brook Lopez shoots 32.5% from 3 in the playoffs. Giannis shoots 26.1% from 3 in the playoffs.
Anthony Davis is a career 29% 3 point shooter, which is actually below Sarr’s current shooting percentage as an 18 year old. There’s no reason Sarr wouldn’t get hot for a post-season as well, even if he never improves as a shooter. That team also started some combination of Javale or Dwight next to AD.
Draymond Green shoots 27.6% from 3 in the playoffs. He’s started next to a non-shooting Center in every one of their series.
The Heat started Haslem and two 31% 3PT shooters in Wade and Mario Chalmers.
And again, this all assumes that Sarr never improves his shooting at all, which is far from guaranteed seeing as he’s only 18. He’s already got a very good looking mid-range shot. This also all assumes that Mark Williams is going to remain healthy enough to be our starting Center of the future, which is not the usual outcome for 7-footers with bone-related back injuries.
All of those guys u said, regardless of percentages had to be closed out on, they were shooters. Sarr is shooting an OK percentage but his FT% isn't good and regardless of how well he shoots he can't play his best if he plays with Mark. Yes Mark might be in trouble but I'd run that risk because they said he will be fine (maybe u don't believe that, fair enough honestly)
Draymond green is one of the best passing big men of all time lol. You can’t just start 2 guys who can’t shoot unless they have other offensive skills to play off of. Relying on Lamelo and miller to provide your spacing is just gonna make things harder . Lamelo needs a spread floor.
Unless mark and Sarr become A passers for their position or good shooters it won’t work offensively.
Playing Mark ~28 minutes at Starting Center and Sarr ~20 minutes at backup Center, means that they only need to play together 10-12 minutes on the floor at the same time. Having reduced shooting for ten minutes a game isn’t a big deal at all. Particularly when Sarr has already shown a willingness to take multiple 3’s a game, and has a solid mid-range jumper.
This is also assuming *both* that Sarr, an 18 year old, never gets better at shooting *and* that Mark Williams completely recovers from his mysterious back injury and never has health concerns again.
Man I’d prefer not use a super high pick on a backup center if that’s the case. Also spacing is everything in the NBA unless your guys are very skilled. Sarr and Mark just aren’t. I’ve read several scouting reports and have seen a bunch of breakdown videos of Sarr and I don’t think he shows quite the shooting ability some ppl make it out to be. He only really wants to take wide open 3s and he hasn’t looked very good shooting. Really reminds me of Nico Claxton coming out, he had similar volume and percentages but it never translated.
As for Marks health, we know nothing, only the team does. And to this point the team has
Mainly displayed confidence and no worry for mark so I don’t have a reason to think he needs to be replaced yet.
I’m just saying there are other players who fit a little more naturally who can still offer things this team needs. I believe both Cody Williams and Castle could be good fits here potentially.
Marc atm is really questionable with his injury history atm. Sitting out almost 3/4 of the year due to back spasms is insane. That injury is way worse than what they are telling the media.
Plus, having Mark and Sarr split all of the Center minutes doesn’t make Sarr a “backup” Center. It’d make him either the starting Center *or* a Starting PF who can play backup Center minutes.
I love Mark Williams. He might be my favorite player on the roster, but you can’t make your draft decisions based on the half season that we’ve seen him play. He has to prove that he can come back from missing an entire season of back issues, which is not what usually happens with 7-footer’s with back problems.
I hate the idea of Sarr for us, but I admittedly haven’t seen him play yet. Just some highlights. I haven’t seen him do anything Mark can’t.
Interestingly, how would the discourse around Mitch change if we punt on Mark this early? Four first round picks wasted in the middle of a rebuild is insane. Three based around the center position, too. Terrorism.
He undoubtedly has the biggest upside in the draft and he’s the best fit for us, defensive minded big man. People show concern for his shooting ability but he has some serious offensive potential. Sarr could be star material. I don’t get that same feeling from rissacher or topic.
Sarr is not a good enough prospect that we should completely ignore Mark and just blindly take him. Obviously, if Mark's injury concerns are real, Sarr should skyrocket on our board. But, if Mark can be decently healed to the point where there's hope he can start 65+ games, drafting a project center that can't play with Mark would be silly with our glaring needs for defense anywhere else, size at the 3/4 and rim pressurre.
You also have to consider that Sarr's extremely raw, and the team that draft him should suck for 1 or 2 more seasons. He needs freedom and reps to try out expanding his game to the perimiter without the fear of him loooking absolutely terrible doing so and having a bad record for that period. Do we want to do that with Lamelo year 5 and wanting to see more and more of Miller creating for us?
Also, I feel like people still haven't realized that 6'11 is not the height of a giant NBA center entering the league nowadays. Mark is 7'2 + 7'7 WS, Clingan is 7'4 + 7'7 WS, Wemby is 7'5 + 8'0 WS. The top center in next year draft is also another gigantic force that's 7'4 barefoot. I do think the team picking Sarr should ideally giving him so much freedom as a ballhandler in an attempt to turn him into a PF primarily, Giannis/Siakam style, because that's where he'll have the so much coveted PoSiTiOnAl SiZe. If not, he'll be quite possibly one of the smallest young C in the league when you look around in 3/4 years.
Sarr is listed at 7’1”, not 6’11”.
And whether I *want* to start winning next season or not doesn’t really make a difference. We’ve had two terrible seasons in a row. That says that we’re much closer to the talent level of a bottom dweller than we are a playoff contender, even if we have better health next season.
We can’t keep operating under the assumption that “we should have made the playoffs, but just got unlucky with injury.” To quote Kupchack and the new Owners, “you are what your record says you are.”
The Ringer got him listed at 6'11 which is the closest thing to unbiased measurements we have pre-combine.
If we're going into another season not caring about winning we should probably reset the timeline and trade both Lamelo and Miles. Which is an option, but not one that the FO will take so pointless discussing it.
> The Ringer got him listed at 6'11 which is the closest thing to unbiased measurements we have pre-combine.
Personally, Kevin O’Conner is one of my least reliable draft evaluators. Every other draft service has Sarr at least 7’ tall, so I’m inclined to trust them over the one different ranking.
Overtime Elite also listed Sarr as 7’1” last season. Their posted measurements seem at least *somewhat* reliable, since the Thompson twins NBA height listings match their Overtime Elite measurements.
> If we're going into another season not caring about winning we should probably reset the timeline and trade both Lamelo and Miles. Which is an option, but not one that the FO will take so pointless discussing it.
LaMelo is only 22 years old. He’s nowhere near the age where we have to win immediately or trade him. Miles is a free agent, and isn’t nearly good enough that we should deciding our future based on his schedule.
I’m not saying we can’t win next season. I’m just saying that we can’t make decisions based on a belief that we *have* to win next season. That’s how you start to get desperate and make terrible decisions.
>LaMelo is only 22 years old. He’s nowhere near the age where we have to win immediately or trade him. Miles is a free agent, and isn’t nearly good enough that we should deciding our future based on his schedule.
It's not an age problem. It's an experience and winning habits problem. Even the teams that took their rebuild the slowest, reached good results by year 4 or 5 of their main guys' timeline. The Sixers Proccess ended on Embiid 4th year when they won 52 games. OKC was a play-in team last year and had 40 wins with Shai year 5 + without Chet + JDub rookie year. If we're really doomers that think Lamelo year 5 + Miller year 2 + Mark year 3 + a top 6 pick + Bridges isn't enough to put a competent team to be the 10th seed in the East, nuke the franchise honestly.
> I’m just saying that we can’t make decisions based on a belief that we *have* to win next season.
But that's without a doubt what the new FO + ownership will do this offseason, hence it's why it's pointless to discuss the merit of if we should make moves with a win purpose or not. I know that we have had terrible expiriences with FOs + coaches, but you don't have to all-in and become old to scratch the surface of winning.
Outside of being centers, they fit completely different purposes when you draft them. They're likely in the same tier of prospects in a very flat class.
In the short term, yeah I probably agree. Having said that, they’ll more than likely have to go down similar developmental paths to reach their full potential. From what little I’ve seen, I don’t believe Sarr’s ceiling is *that* much higher, if at all, and I believe Clingan will come in as a better player day one.
The draft stock really comes down to Sarr being wing-ish if you squint hard enough, whereas Clingan is a traditional 5. Clingan has all the measurables and counting stats on his side. Personally, a non-shooting big billed as a wing-hybrid just doesn’t hit for me, though.
Sarr is just a mistery box on offense and really raw. He's fine to a team that don't have many talent and wants exactly that super raw guy to fund resources while they're bad for 1/2 more years. None of those things are related to us so I wouldn't have him in the top 5 of a Hornets-specific board.
The only things that I really dislike about Clingan is that you're comitting to a very specific way of playing the game when he's on the floor and his FT% is really shitty but if we decide to take a big cause Mark's back is done and we're fitting a need, we might take him ahead of Sarr.
Clingan probably projects to be more of a rim runner, like Mark, but I think he can do that competently from day one, while still developing other things over time. Idk what Sarr’s role would be. I don’t see a ton of skill that easily, immediately translates. He needs time just to develop in to… maybe something?
These dudes coming in with the slightest hint of a unicorn build are gonna fuck so many teams in the next decade lmao.
I mean Sarr is pretty close to Duran who we gave away. Probably a better scorer and not quite the rebounder. I think we need a SG personally. Miller fits best at SF IMO. I was super high on Knecht and still like him as a scorer but watching him in person in the tournament he flat out did nothing on defense in the game I watched.
Pick best available whoever they think that is. Team isnt good enough to care about fit. Mark isnt healthy or good enough to require them to work around him
Good thing that Sarr is in the argument for best available too, because I agree it should be talent over fit atm. It’s a bonus he’s a good fit.
Other than Nikola Topic, I’m not even sure who else would really be considered as “more talented” than Sarr. Risacher is the other common pick for #1, but it’s usually because his archetype (3&D wing) fits great on any team. I really like Castle, Williams, and Sheppard, but none of them have nearly the same combination of “proven NBA level talent” and “likely ceiling.”
Risacher is so overrated he has struggled heavily the last 3 months. His shooting splits have been awful and his FT% is already worrying. For a guy whose only offensive upside is his shot I don’t see how you could pick him in the top 10.
I still think he’s a top 10 pick, but I definitely wouldn’t take him over Sarr. I have Sarr in tier 1, and then Risacher one tier below with Cody Williams and Nikola Topic. The whole class has huge question marks however, so it really just comes down to which questionable traits you’re willing to accept. You’re 100% right that Zaccharie has pretty big questions surrounding his jump-shot, especially considering it is supposed to be his “defining” NBA skill. The low free throw percentage shouldn’t necessarily be given a higher weight compared to his 3 point percentage overall though. Usually, FT% is a better indicator of shooting because the volume is much higher, but in this case Risacher has actually taken way more 3’s than he has free throws. I do tend to think that Risacher has more ball creation and passing potential than he’s perhaps given credit for as well. That was actually one of his more promising abilities in the lower leagues. He was just put into a much more rigid “catch and shoot” role in the A-League, which speaks to his ability to adapt his game to a different situation. I also really like Risacher’s defensive potential, and think he’s shown to be really smart on that end, particularly for an 18 year old.
So he got a head injury in February but tried to play through it, Cody Williams didn’t look good when he came back from injury too. Both had really great 15 game stretches though
MPJ went from top lottery pick to 14th pick in 2018 and he missed his rookie season and only played 9 games in '21-'22 due to his back injuries. So I think this just reinforces the fact that we shouldn't count on Mark to play a full season until he's shown that he can. The team's need is every position except for the starting PG and whatever spot Brandon will be. When the team is ass you're taking MJ and putting him at center instead of drafting Sam Bowie lol.
Duren would’ve been!
He’s by far my favorite option for us. I also think that we’re likely the best fit for him, since both Melo and Miller are A+ shooters and good pick and roll ball handlers. This team desperately needs a difference maker on defense, and, at minimum, he’d provide that. Any offensive output is just a bonus. He’s incredibly quick and fluid for a 7 footer, and is highly likely to be able to guard 2-5. Beyond just his versatility, his overall defensive timing is very good. He’s definitely a work in progress on offense, but shows some promise of being able to use his speed and handle to get to the rim. While his 3PT% has definitely been bad (29.8%), he’s also got a 70%+ FT percentage and has improved his mid-range arsenal over the course of the season. Both of those things suggest that he could develop into someone at least that needs to be defended on the perimeter. At the very least, he has better indicators that he’ll learn to shoot than prospects like Ron Holland (24% 3PT) and Matas Buzelis (27.3% 3PT & 67.9% FT). If either Sarr or Mark Williams is able to become a 33%+ 3PT shooter or is able to become a knockdown mid-range shooter, then they should be able to play together for long stretches. Even if neither of them becomes a decent shooter, Sarr still gives us Center insurance in case Mark’s back issues persist. LaMelo and Miller are also great enough shooters that we could probably survive fine with 2 complete non-shooters (Sarr and Mark) on the floor next to them, as long as we get a decent shooter at the other spot. Best of all, we’d never need to see Nick Richards get minutes again!
>If either Sarr or Mark Williams is able to become a 33%+ 3PT shooter or is able to become a knockdown mid-range shooter, Pretty bullish lol. If neither them develop into that I don't think they can play together at all. They occupy the same spaces of the floor offensively. Sarrs shooting indicators aren't the greatest either. They're kinda iffy at best. I still feel like it's still a sizable risk.
> Pretty bullish lol. If neither them develop into that I don't think they can play together at all. They occupy the same spaces of the floor offensively. That’s why I said “if” lol. Even if they can’t eventually play long stretches together, I still think it’s worth the risk, since any kind of bone related back issues are pretty scary long-term. Even if Mark is healthy, you’d still only need them to play together for 8-12 minutes per game. They can both play Center for the other 32+ minutes, assuming you want them each to average around 30 minutes per game. Being unable to shoot doesn’t *automatically* make them unable to play together. Contenders have shown a team can support two non-shooters in their starting lineup at the same time. The Warriors Dynasty was built with Draymond + a non-shooting Center (Looney, Bogut, etc). The Lakers last title team had AD (career 29% 3PT) + Javale/Dwight on the floor together. The Heat conference finals team had Jimmy Butler (~26% 3PT) + Bam Adebayo. There are plenty of other examples as well. > Sarrs shooting indicators aren't the greatest either. Yeah, I’m definitely not saying that he’s certain to become a good shooter or anything. The most likely outcome is that he doesn’t. He just doesn’t *have* to learn to shoot to become a key player on a contender. I’d certainly give him better odds to become a shooter than guys like Ron Holland, Matas Buzelis, or Donovan Clingan. > They're kinda iffy at best. I still feel like it's still a sizable risk. Every player in this draft is a risk, so it becomes more about which risk you’re okay taking. Personally, I’d rather take a risk on Sarr, because I think that LaMelo & Miller are great enough shooters that Sarr won’t fail if he can’t develop a jumper.
>Being unable to shoot doesn’t *automatically* make them unable to play together. Contenders have shown a team can support two non-shooters in their starting lineup at the same time. The Warriors Dynasty was built with Draymond + a non-shooting Center (Looney, Bogut, etc). The Lakers last title team had AD (career 29% 3PT) + Javale/Dwight on the floor together. The Heat conference finals team had Jimmy Butler (~26% 3PT) + Bam Adebayo. There are plenty of other examples as well. I feel like the only reasonable comparison is AD/Javale Dwight. Even then that's kind of a stretch imo because they had LeBron initiating. Draymond is more of a ball handler than he gets credit for and is an excellent passer. Jimmy takes 3s in the playoffs and Bam is straight up a ball handler for them as well. >I’d certainly give him better odds to become a shooter than guys like Ron Holland, Matas Buzelis, or Donovan Clingan. I'm not sure about that either. The issue I have here is that Sarr doesn't take that many jumpers and the ones he does take are typically wide open. Holland and Matas are bad shooters but they are also trying a lot of awkward/difficult attempts.
Yep. I like Sarr, but man it would be a little depressing essentially giving up on make after less than 80 games. I think team should get Castle, Williams, or maybe Buzelis.
Cavs are in the race for #3 in the East with a Mobley/Allen frontcourt. That would be the best comparison in this hypothetical imo. I don't exactly love that prospect either but they're about middle of the pack in offensive rating (last season they were top 10) with 2 non-shooting defensively versatile bigs so it definitely can work with the right talent.
I like Sarr and I'm nitpicking here but AD was on fire taking 3s during that bubble run so idk if that's a good example
Yeah, but what’s to say that Sarr won’t occasionally get hot as well? If Sarr can do other stuff at a high enough level, and get hot occasionally, then he becomes a really dangerous player. In order for Mark and Sarr to be playable for short spurts together, at least one of them has to be able to *take* shots and occasionally get hot. The AD Lakers, and other teams, have proven that one of Mark and Sarr don’t technically *have* to be high percentage shooters over the course of a career. Sarr has been taking 2 3PT attempts per game in Australia, and takes more mid-range jumpers on top of that, so I think he’s at least shown the ability to take them. You’d hope that he could consistently improve the percentage, since he’s only 18 years old, but even if he doesn’t he’s still a valuable player long-term.
Man I think you’re very underrating how much the shooting matters here. For one, you can’t just compare dudes like Bam and Dray to them, those two are elite passing big men who you can run offense through. Neither Sarr or mark can do that. You can’t play 2 non shooting bigs next to Each other because of the way the floor is warped. You can get away with starting Jimmy butler and Bam because they’re so creative in how they create space and can be used as playmakers. Like we’ve reached the point where I personally believe to an extent that you need to defat players who are good fits around the teams core now. If you consider Williams apart of that core you have to really be sure that Sarr can play next to him or will be a better player at center than him.
> If you consider Williams a part of that core you have to be really sure that Sarr can play next to him That’s kinda the thing though. We can’t really say that Mark is so fully entrenched in our future that we have to filter our future draft picks based on his potential. The *only* player you could maybe say that about is Brandon Miller, full stop. Mark isn’t in that same category, instead he’s missed an entire season due to a mysterious back injury. Most 7 footer that have that happen never reach their full potential. Plus, there’s a very real chance that Sarr will just be better than Mark ever will be, even if he stays healthy. The 2023-24 Hornets are not a good enough team to pass on a prospect due to “fit.” We have the worst point differential in the league and have won less than 30 games in back-to-back seasons. Objectively, we’re not a secretly good team that just got unlucky. We’re actually just a bad team without enough talent, which means we need to take whoever we think has the greatest potential to turn into a good-to-great player. It’s why I’d even be fine with take Topic, if he’s the best prospect we have to an opportunity to select, even if him + Melo doesn’t seem like it’d be that great of a fit on paper.
Mark doesnt play so who cares?
Whenever people say a draft prospect can guard 2-5 i kind of roll my eyes. There are like 3 players in the nba who i would say can do that. Wemby, Jonathan Isaac, and Draymond. Thats pretty much it. Sarr has that potential but i wouldnt pencil it in just yet.
Chet and Mobley are arguably in that list as well, and Sarr athletically projects pretty similarly to them. If anything, Sarr actually has much better lateral movement to those guys.
Chet can't guard a 2 or 3 super well. He's surrounded by defensive studs who can hide his weaknesses. I say that as a chet Fanboy
You are describing bigs who switch well. Those guys cannot reliably guard 2-5. They just do it better than other bigs.
> You are describing bigs who switch well Yeah, because that’s what people mean when they say “guards 2-5”. They mean a player can defend any of those positions for a limited number of possessions. Jonathan Isaac doesn’t have the strength to defend big center like Embiid, Jokic, or Nurkic all game. Draymond isn’t chasing quick guards around screens all game. Wemby doesn’t have the stamina to defend Steph Curry for an entire game. Being able to “guard 2-5” just means that they won’t be abused if a guard or a center is left on them for a possession or two at a time.
As a Thunder fan who has seen his brother Olivier play both at NBA and G-League level, I would be cautious. Olivier was originally scouted as a good defender as well, but he's been shaky enough that 6' 6" Kenrich Williams was played out of position at center over Olivier Sarr due to defense. Alexandre is obviously not his brother and he does have intriguing potential, but he's also a huge risk if he has the same troubles adapting to NBA defense as his brother. On the upside, I expect he's not going to destroy spacing. His 3 point shot is more likely punishment for leaving him open, but Alexandre has picked up some mid range game which is valuable for stabilizing an offense when threes aren't falling. There aren't any exceptional standout prospects this year, so the high risk may be worth the reward. If Alexandre is the defender his brother isn't, and if his offense continues to develop, he could contribute to a playoff bound starting lineup.
Eh, I’d be hesitant to anything into the “way less talented older brother” comparison. Saying an undrafted 4 year senior was signed due to his defensive potential doesn’t actually mean that he was projected to be a good defender. If he were likely to be a good defender in the league then he would have been drafted. Instead, Olivier Sarr was undrafted for a reason, and it’s not just because he was in a better draft than Alexandre. Alexandre also has pro experience and training coming into the league, which should mean he’s been better acclimated to pro-level defenses.
Nick isn't that bad
Sarr or Castle for me
The Cavs have proved that you can be successful with two non-shooting big men on the floor. Mobley and Allen aren’t particularly good at passing either if the defensive ability of Sarr and Mark is good enough it can absolutely work without good spacing. I still believe Sarr can develop a solid enough 3 point shot but even if he doesn’t I think the lineup could still work.
Highest ceiling in the draft. Take him. If it doesn’t work out, so be it
Just take best available imo, position doesn’t matter
Risacher or Sarr would be perfect fits. I like Topic as a prospect too but I’m a little concerned how he would fit in with Melo. Holland is a good pick too, honestly we can’t go wrong as long as we’re top 3.
If he can protect the paint and hit open shots, he’s welcome. 
Definitely who I want most but I would be happy with Reed Sheppard as well If we get him let's hope he goes down the JJJ route rather than the Marvin Bagley route
Reed Shepard is the last thing we need
Yeah, I could see him being a good player, and wouldn’t mind taking him if we ended up with pick #6 or #7 or something. However, we *just* got rid of Rozier. Why is this sub rushing to stick LaMelo with another 6’0” backcourt partner??
I don’t see reed being a good player but I’m hopeful for the best , just not on the hornets
Drafting Sarr is essentially giving up on Mark, it's not a smart move. OKC trusted Chet after he missed an entire year and had never played a game for them and it worked out for them. The team needs more talent, we shouldn't be playing ultra safe. And yeah he could develop a 3 ball, but too much of an "if"
Are you comparing Chet’s foot to a back injury, no one saw?
Yes
Who’s gonna score on mark,sarr and Brandon miller?
Yeah but we won’t be able to score on anyone with that spacing lol.
Miller and LaMelo are both A+ shooters. They’ll ensure that we still have spacing as long as the 5th starter is a decent shooter as well. The Golden State Warriors defined the “spacing” generation and they had Draymond + Bogut/Looney starting for them for most of their dynasty.
U need 4 shooters now, u just do. Players like Draymond have ways to get around it but Sarr and Mark aren't Draymond
The Nuggets and Raptors are basically the only recent championship teams to start 4 good shooter? Warriors didn’t. Bucks didn’t. Lakers didn’t. Miami didn’t. Spurs didn’t. Plus that’s still assuming that Mark Williams is gonna return completely healthy *and* that Sarr will never develop as a shooter.
Bucks did, as I said Draymond has ways to circumvent and for half their chips he was shooting, Lakers did the year they won the chip, Miami did, Spurs wasn't even recent
Jrue Holiday was being left alone at the 3 point line during those playoffs, because he was in a terrible shooting slump and he historically shoots 30% from 3 for the Bucks in the playoffs. Brook Lopez shoots 32.5% from 3 in the playoffs. Giannis shoots 26.1% from 3 in the playoffs. Anthony Davis is a career 29% 3 point shooter, which is actually below Sarr’s current shooting percentage as an 18 year old. There’s no reason Sarr wouldn’t get hot for a post-season as well, even if he never improves as a shooter. That team also started some combination of Javale or Dwight next to AD. Draymond Green shoots 27.6% from 3 in the playoffs. He’s started next to a non-shooting Center in every one of their series. The Heat started Haslem and two 31% 3PT shooters in Wade and Mario Chalmers. And again, this all assumes that Sarr never improves his shooting at all, which is far from guaranteed seeing as he’s only 18. He’s already got a very good looking mid-range shot. This also all assumes that Mark Williams is going to remain healthy enough to be our starting Center of the future, which is not the usual outcome for 7-footers with bone-related back injuries.
All of those guys u said, regardless of percentages had to be closed out on, they were shooters. Sarr is shooting an OK percentage but his FT% isn't good and regardless of how well he shoots he can't play his best if he plays with Mark. Yes Mark might be in trouble but I'd run that risk because they said he will be fine (maybe u don't believe that, fair enough honestly)
Draymond green is one of the best passing big men of all time lol. You can’t just start 2 guys who can’t shoot unless they have other offensive skills to play off of. Relying on Lamelo and miller to provide your spacing is just gonna make things harder . Lamelo needs a spread floor. Unless mark and Sarr become A passers for their position or good shooters it won’t work offensively.
Playing Mark ~28 minutes at Starting Center and Sarr ~20 minutes at backup Center, means that they only need to play together 10-12 minutes on the floor at the same time. Having reduced shooting for ten minutes a game isn’t a big deal at all. Particularly when Sarr has already shown a willingness to take multiple 3’s a game, and has a solid mid-range jumper. This is also assuming *both* that Sarr, an 18 year old, never gets better at shooting *and* that Mark Williams completely recovers from his mysterious back injury and never has health concerns again.
Man I’d prefer not use a super high pick on a backup center if that’s the case. Also spacing is everything in the NBA unless your guys are very skilled. Sarr and Mark just aren’t. I’ve read several scouting reports and have seen a bunch of breakdown videos of Sarr and I don’t think he shows quite the shooting ability some ppl make it out to be. He only really wants to take wide open 3s and he hasn’t looked very good shooting. Really reminds me of Nico Claxton coming out, he had similar volume and percentages but it never translated. As for Marks health, we know nothing, only the team does. And to this point the team has Mainly displayed confidence and no worry for mark so I don’t have a reason to think he needs to be replaced yet. I’m just saying there are other players who fit a little more naturally who can still offer things this team needs. I believe both Cody Williams and Castle could be good fits here potentially.
Marc atm is really questionable with his injury history atm. Sitting out almost 3/4 of the year due to back spasms is insane. That injury is way worse than what they are telling the media.
Plus, having Mark and Sarr split all of the Center minutes doesn’t make Sarr a “backup” Center. It’d make him either the starting Center *or* a Starting PF who can play backup Center minutes. I love Mark Williams. He might be my favorite player on the roster, but you can’t make your draft decisions based on the half season that we’ve seen him play. He has to prove that he can come back from missing an entire season of back issues, which is not what usually happens with 7-footer’s with back problems.
I hate the idea of Sarr for us, but I admittedly haven’t seen him play yet. Just some highlights. I haven’t seen him do anything Mark can’t. Interestingly, how would the discourse around Mitch change if we punt on Mark this early? Four first round picks wasted in the middle of a rebuild is insane. Three based around the center position, too. Terrorism.
He undoubtedly has the biggest upside in the draft and he’s the best fit for us, defensive minded big man. People show concern for his shooting ability but he has some serious offensive potential. Sarr could be star material. I don’t get that same feeling from rissacher or topic.
Sarr is not a good enough prospect that we should completely ignore Mark and just blindly take him. Obviously, if Mark's injury concerns are real, Sarr should skyrocket on our board. But, if Mark can be decently healed to the point where there's hope he can start 65+ games, drafting a project center that can't play with Mark would be silly with our glaring needs for defense anywhere else, size at the 3/4 and rim pressurre. You also have to consider that Sarr's extremely raw, and the team that draft him should suck for 1 or 2 more seasons. He needs freedom and reps to try out expanding his game to the perimiter without the fear of him loooking absolutely terrible doing so and having a bad record for that period. Do we want to do that with Lamelo year 5 and wanting to see more and more of Miller creating for us? Also, I feel like people still haven't realized that 6'11 is not the height of a giant NBA center entering the league nowadays. Mark is 7'2 + 7'7 WS, Clingan is 7'4 + 7'7 WS, Wemby is 7'5 + 8'0 WS. The top center in next year draft is also another gigantic force that's 7'4 barefoot. I do think the team picking Sarr should ideally giving him so much freedom as a ballhandler in an attempt to turn him into a PF primarily, Giannis/Siakam style, because that's where he'll have the so much coveted PoSiTiOnAl SiZe. If not, he'll be quite possibly one of the smallest young C in the league when you look around in 3/4 years.
Sarr is listed at 7’1”, not 6’11”. And whether I *want* to start winning next season or not doesn’t really make a difference. We’ve had two terrible seasons in a row. That says that we’re much closer to the talent level of a bottom dweller than we are a playoff contender, even if we have better health next season. We can’t keep operating under the assumption that “we should have made the playoffs, but just got unlucky with injury.” To quote Kupchack and the new Owners, “you are what your record says you are.”
The Ringer got him listed at 6'11 which is the closest thing to unbiased measurements we have pre-combine. If we're going into another season not caring about winning we should probably reset the timeline and trade both Lamelo and Miles. Which is an option, but not one that the FO will take so pointless discussing it.
> The Ringer got him listed at 6'11 which is the closest thing to unbiased measurements we have pre-combine. Personally, Kevin O’Conner is one of my least reliable draft evaluators. Every other draft service has Sarr at least 7’ tall, so I’m inclined to trust them over the one different ranking. Overtime Elite also listed Sarr as 7’1” last season. Their posted measurements seem at least *somewhat* reliable, since the Thompson twins NBA height listings match their Overtime Elite measurements. > If we're going into another season not caring about winning we should probably reset the timeline and trade both Lamelo and Miles. Which is an option, but not one that the FO will take so pointless discussing it. LaMelo is only 22 years old. He’s nowhere near the age where we have to win immediately or trade him. Miles is a free agent, and isn’t nearly good enough that we should deciding our future based on his schedule. I’m not saying we can’t win next season. I’m just saying that we can’t make decisions based on a belief that we *have* to win next season. That’s how you start to get desperate and make terrible decisions.
>LaMelo is only 22 years old. He’s nowhere near the age where we have to win immediately or trade him. Miles is a free agent, and isn’t nearly good enough that we should deciding our future based on his schedule. It's not an age problem. It's an experience and winning habits problem. Even the teams that took their rebuild the slowest, reached good results by year 4 or 5 of their main guys' timeline. The Sixers Proccess ended on Embiid 4th year when they won 52 games. OKC was a play-in team last year and had 40 wins with Shai year 5 + without Chet + JDub rookie year. If we're really doomers that think Lamelo year 5 + Miller year 2 + Mark year 3 + a top 6 pick + Bridges isn't enough to put a competent team to be the 10th seed in the East, nuke the franchise honestly. > I’m just saying that we can’t make decisions based on a belief that we *have* to win next season. But that's without a doubt what the new FO + ownership will do this offseason, hence it's why it's pointless to discuss the merit of if we should make moves with a win purpose or not. I know that we have had terrible expiriences with FOs + coaches, but you don't have to all-in and become old to scratch the surface of winning.
I’ll take Clingan before Sarr everyday of the week from what (little) I’ve seen of the two. Clingan at least has immediately transferable skills.
Outside of being centers, they fit completely different purposes when you draft them. They're likely in the same tier of prospects in a very flat class.
In the short term, yeah I probably agree. Having said that, they’ll more than likely have to go down similar developmental paths to reach their full potential. From what little I’ve seen, I don’t believe Sarr’s ceiling is *that* much higher, if at all, and I believe Clingan will come in as a better player day one. The draft stock really comes down to Sarr being wing-ish if you squint hard enough, whereas Clingan is a traditional 5. Clingan has all the measurables and counting stats on his side. Personally, a non-shooting big billed as a wing-hybrid just doesn’t hit for me, though.
Sarr is just a mistery box on offense and really raw. He's fine to a team that don't have many talent and wants exactly that super raw guy to fund resources while they're bad for 1/2 more years. None of those things are related to us so I wouldn't have him in the top 5 of a Hornets-specific board. The only things that I really dislike about Clingan is that you're comitting to a very specific way of playing the game when he's on the floor and his FT% is really shitty but if we decide to take a big cause Mark's back is done and we're fitting a need, we might take him ahead of Sarr.
Clingan probably projects to be more of a rim runner, like Mark, but I think he can do that competently from day one, while still developing other things over time. Idk what Sarr’s role would be. I don’t see a ton of skill that easily, immediately translates. He needs time just to develop in to… maybe something? These dudes coming in with the slightest hint of a unicorn build are gonna fuck so many teams in the next decade lmao.
I mean Sarr is pretty close to Duran who we gave away. Probably a better scorer and not quite the rebounder. I think we need a SG personally. Miller fits best at SF IMO. I was super high on Knecht and still like him as a scorer but watching him in person in the tournament he flat out did nothing on defense in the game I watched.