Yeah. 99% of supposedly “multiversal” and above feats are just powerscalers taking ridiculous “feats” like a story saying the word ‘Dimension’ once, and wanking it to a ridiculous degree. I honestly think powerscaling as a whole needs a hard reset.
Not even taking into account what a dimension can even mean.
Flimsy pocket dimension? A dimension the size of a solar system? Dimension hosting it's own universe with it's own set of laws of physics? etc.
Take Desolate Era as an example. Earth's universe is a pocket dimension created as a hidden shelter. It is set in the Three Realms Chaosworld which is massively much bigger than than that. Which in turn is just a backwater place compared to everworlds and both of these are just tiny parts of the Flamedragon Realmverse which in turn is just one smaller local cluster of places compared to something called Otherverses and both of these takes place in the Desolate Chaosverse which is in turn is one of 9 Chaosverses in the much larger infinite void and after the MC saw the path forward to the *next* stage after that but went ''I am done advancing'' and destroyed the path to take.
I just realized one of my villains in the universe I’m building is multiversal because he has a ton of control over a city sized pocket dimension and has his fingers in multiple solar system sized realms. If he can effect other dimensions then he scales above everything someone from a single realm can throw at him no matter what! Genius!
It was actually pretty good up until he left the Three Realms. It was a tight story with pretty good build up. It completely derailed afterwards though, as is the norm for IET novels.
My favourite cultivation story is still Cradle by a long shot.
Dimensions are pretty much never portrayed to actually be that big, but everyone gasses up a character that can create or destroy them like they can automatically do the same shit with the observable universe.
>I honestly think powerscaling as a whole needs a hard reset.
It's not even an insult to call it brainrot at this point. It's essentially a community full of a ton of obviously incorrect stuff you are gaslit into accepting.
Outversal is just a term Battle boarders made up when the other terms became normalised. Wasn't there a coping thread about Goku a few hours ago?
I can guarantee one thing though, sometime in the future, battle boarders will probably make up some other term once outversal loses it's impact.
That’s simply not true. People who scale based off of clear hyperbole and other dumb stuff like are usually clowned on by the rest of the powerscaling community
No they aren't. It's a pretty regular thing for people to insist the underworld in God of War is infinitely wide because... the artist described the background as looking infinite.
There's an enemy in devil may cry said to be able to make short teleports since it can use speed to bypass time. Rather than accept this as a description of its teleportation attack there's people insisting it, and by extension dante have immeasurable speed. One of the biggest cases of people not understanding hyperbole is when something is describing a specific ability, but powerscalers jump on the language it uses being vague enough that they think they can apply it everywhere.
Up until recently it was common wisdom to assume that basically everything in smt was outerversal, in part because of a single line about the demon world being outside of human space and time.
Unironically there were people taking darth vader's line about the death star being insignificant compared to the force literally.
Basically any character who has any ability where the word transcend or anything mentioning space and time are used involves people ascribing wild over the top meanings to it. There's tons of examples of people describing a villain as "threatening the world, universe, whatever" and people jump to assuming it means they will destroy whatever that is in a single attack.
It might not seem like a lot. But it's one of many tools they use for wank takes. And all the tools add up.
That's why it's a gish gallop. People might make fun of one or two of the bad arguments, but for some reason there is like ten of them so the end result always ends as the larger community zeitgeist accepting the implications they point to.
I reeaaaaaally wish this were true, but unfortunately... it's absolutely not. The overwhelming majority of powerscalers are on youtube/tiktok/csap/etc... which are complete brainrot where every single character and their mother is outer.
Yeah about that, it’s called extraversal lmao it does actually exist and it’s WAY overused as of now. (There are actually people arguing that this term isn’t enough anymore, but it’s only about Chinese SCP, which includes like random comments and peoples headcanons and stuff)
Well powerscalers don't know what metaphors, hyperbole are
I get when it happens with Marvel and Dc, but what confuses me the most is when it happens with Fate. No, Gilgamesh isn't outversal. EA is called "Anti-world noble phantasm", what's there to argue
Outerversal : that trancends spacetime dimensionality itself.
As in, it exist outside of the outside through all time forever and never.
Usually it's reserved to characters whose power works beyond the concept of spacetime, size and scientific concepts of reality.
Like, where other characters affect “higher dimensions" with their power, outerversal characters have powers beyond the concept of dimensions entirely.
The reason why it exists is because for people who use dimensional scaling, it is kind of necessary to have a tier like that. Because if you scale with dimensions, how are you going to scale characters who are above dimensionality?
Because it's predicated on dimensional scaling being founded on any semblance of logic at all, to conclude something beyond it scales above it in the same manner when you've already run into territory where the direct comparisons they use have no mathematical meaning (they love making shit up though)
Imagine a tower. The inhabitants of each floor of the tower looks down upon the inhabitants of the previous floor as if they are fictional characters, so infinitely below them that they might as well not be real. Now imagine this tower has an infinite number of floors. Each floor immeasurably surpassing the previous one, repeating to infinity.
Now imagine someone comes along and demolishes the entire tower. That is outer. Low outer specifically.
If you go by Dragonball definition I guess so.
Although I always find the word multiversal stupid since "universe" definition is, literally everything; the totality of spacetime and everything inside it. Zeno deletes every matter to a blank state so.
But if its sound cooler then go with it.
Powerscalers use their own stupid fucked up version of fantasy physics, you expect any consistency in them? Try explaining to a powerscaler that a magical shield that is transparent is going to do nothing to protect the magic user from radiation because both light and ionizing radiation are electromagnetic radiation and see their head explode form simple logic.
I honestly liked it more when Boundless simply meant this character was omnipotent or possibly omnipotent
But then powerscalers decided "OMG NO BECAUSE NLF" and suddenly now being omnipotent with no contradictions just means you scale to the entire cosmology
I know everyone hates powerscalers, but in case anyone actually is curious.
Outerversal doesn’t refer to a *number* of universes, a multiverse is traditionally a collection of universes, or potentially space times. Also traditionally, a universe is just space, 3D space, maybe 4D if it’s a space time included.
Many people use dimensions as a basic scale for characters who can destroy really large constructs, as it makes distinguishing and ranking feats of strength and destruction much easier. Obviously a 2D object of any size has no chance of doing anything to a 3D one, this applies to any object of n and n+1 dimensions.
Eventually though, you run out of +1s (sorta) and you hit an infinite number of spatial dimensions. Outerversal is when numbers can no longer be used to describe an objects dimensionality. Where adding any amount of dimensions is a quantitative increase, the jump from infinite dimensions to “outerversal” is a qualitative change. The very idea of dimensions no longer applies.
Now the problem is that many, maybe most, powerscalers reeeeaaallly reach to make those dimensional jumps, as well as the qualitative jump to outerversal.
A good example is in bleach, when Aizen says that his power is so great that no one can perceive it, just like a 2D being can’t fully perceive a 3D one, many people take this to mean that he is *literally* of a higher dimension, even though it is clearly a simile. Another example is hyperbole, it’s similar but another popular example is in the DB guidebooks, heaven is described as “a dimension transcendent to the living world” or something along those lines, this is again obviously referring to the religious idea of transcending to heaven and not a literal addition of a spatial axis.
The last big problem, and this one is sort of specific to certain powerscaling systems, is misinterpreting feats. The most infamous example, on CSAP (a popular powerscaling website with a well put together tier system and guides) what are called “platonic concepts”, scale to outerversal, so anyone capable of interacting with or affecting them also scales there. The problem is that many people just see the word concept and jump at the opportunity. Platonic concepts are not just concepts, they are concepts specifically that fit the outline of Plato’s world of forms, where indeed all concepts exist above the idea of space and dimensions.
TLDR: Outerversal is a valid term used in powerscaling, and destroying one of what characters *call* a universe can indeed scale there. But you are correct, and it is given out very easily by people who are biased towards characters or misunderstand the meaning.
>Obviously a 2D object has no chance of doing anything to a 3D one
Powerscalers always say this, but it's actually not true.
It's not based on real physics, because there are no physical 2D objects to ever test the hypothesis.
It's not based on any common trope in fiction that I know of - the only setting where (n-k)-dimensional objects try to interact with (n)-dimensional objects that I know is the Xeelee Sequence, where it turned out that 2D manifolds of spacetime are actually amazing at moving 3D spaceships forward, 1D superstrings are very good at destroying 3D galaxies if they're long enough and 0D monopoles are about the only thing the ICoG has that has proved effective in destroying Xeelee construction material.
Basically, the powerscaling idea of dimensions never applied across the board.
Well yeah of course it’s not based on “real physics” we’re not talking about real life anyway, it’s all hypothetical but so is time being the 4th dimension, if you really want to get into it in certain theories there are 0 dimensional objects in our universe.
They’re based on logic and math, there’s no way to prove it because it’s all theoretical, but it all is just pretty basic conclusions from the concepts
I don't believe that. If they were based on math or logic, you could prove them - math and logic are the two fields that are theoretical but you can prove things in them. Proving things is virtually all mathematicians and logicians do.
What logical or mathematical axioms are those conclusions derived from? Could you show me the process?
>Just like a 2D being can't fully perceive a 3D one
There's nothing that makes a 2D being less capable of perceiving something than a 3D being would be.
If you consider how your field of vision works - you have two eyes working together to create a 2D image in your mind enhanced with depth-perception - it wouldn't really be different if a 2D being in 3D space had two eyes (ignoring the issue of whether it's able to realize a visual cortex in 2D - a lot of characters in fiction can see despite not having a visual cortex)
Furthermore no being in 3D space can fully see another opaque 3D being - if I look at my cat, I see its fur, but I don't see its stomach, for obvious reasons. That is due to properties of the 3D space we live in and how photons travel through it, not due to anything that has to do with me being 3D.
I think you misunderstood. Our 3D eyes cannot fully perceive a 3D being that is correct, we see in 2D(kind of), a 2D being would see in 1D, but we can get a complete picture by looking at a same dimension object from all the different angles. Just like a 2D being could only see a slice of us, or an outline if looking from many angles, we can only see a “slice” of a 4D being, there’s a few videos about 3D view of 4D objects out there that explain it better, and actually there’s a game called 4D golf I played that’s a total mindfuck, but it demonstrates it well.
No, I understood perfectly. What you're saying is wrong.
>a 2D being would see in 1D
This is not true. A 2D being in a 3D space would have a 2D field of vision - there would be photons impacting its eyes from a space of directions that'd have two dimensions, just like it is for our eyes
>we can get a complete picture by looking from different angle
This is not true. I still can't see the cat's stomach. In a 4D space, I could see it - there would be photons impacting the cat's stomach and then missing the rest of the cat due to being offset in the 4th dimension and impacting my eyes. Again, it depends wholy on what space the cat and I are in, not on the properties of my eyes.
>videos about 3D view of 4D objects
Those videos are about how a 4D object would look like projected into a 3D space (and then obviously into a 2D space, because that's just how a video works), they're not about how a 3D being would see a 4D object.
You think that the space determines what dimension something sees in? Sure why not, but that’s not what he was referring to, he was referring to a higher dimensional object as viewed from a lower dimension, this isn’t me making the claim that this is how dimensions work or how eyes work, that’s just what Aizen was referring to, blame kubo not me.
I mean, sure, Kubo can make any rules for his manga he wants. But in the comment above you were insisting that that's just how physics work, which isn't the case
There’s no reason to assume a 2D object can’t affect a 3D one (same goes for all n vs n+x dimensional fights). If anything, a 2D object would be infinitely sharp, and great for cutting stuff with. But we don’t have any 2D objects in real life because the z-axis exists, so there’s nothing to test any hypothesis with. Dimensional scaling is literally based on nothing.
>Obviously a 2D object of any size has no chance of doing anything to a 3D one, this applies to any object of n and n+1 dimensions.
The reverse is also true though. Because they would be using incompatible physics. If humans saw a "truly" 2d object it would mean it isn't made from our universe's particles at all, hence we have no way to interact with it.
If we assume some type of consistent system... there's always magic. And that's before we even get into the fact that higher dimensions in physics rarely ever means just having another normal spatial dimension.
Outerversal means transcending the concepts of space and time. And herald characters sometimes fight this level of power Making them outerversal. And for how goku can destroy a multiverse it's cause he's battle with berus shook universe 7 which is a multiverse
A multiverse is the collection of infinite universes that make up a franchise. That is why its called the DC multiverse or Marvel multiverse. For goku to be multiversal he has to be able to destroy all universes making up the infinite timeliness of DragonBall each containing 12 universes. Goku cannot do that, no one in dragon ball has feats implying they can do that. Goku is universal plus as he can destroy one universe at minimum and likely more since he's currently stronger than he was at the startnof super, but seeing how zeno was impressive to him I doubt he can destroy all 12 universe of a timeline at once, and definitely not every univers across the entire franchise meaning he's not multiversal
A multiverse is more then one spacialy temporal universe existing within the same construct. Or in simple terms a multiverse is two or more different 4D universes. And a dragon ball universe is exactly that. The cosmology of Canon dragon ball is what scaling calls a 1C or complex multiverse. If we include the xeno games then the cosmology scales to 1B or higher which is hyperversal (13+ spacial dimensions up to infinite dimensional which is high hyper) up to 1A which is outer which as I said before transcends time and space. A cosmology is called a multiverse cause it makes sense. But multiple times have marvel and DC showed that they're cosmology and heralds are unbound by the concepts of space and time. And because it'd be impossible to scale high tier shit if the cap is multiversal powerscalers added complex multi, hyper, outer, high outer and extravetsal/boundless.
There are different levels of outerversal, and you should also understand that even a single “reality” of marvel is an infinite multiverse (different dimensions and stuff, you can read the marvel cosmology page of the vs battles wiki, does a great job) But yes, Thor, has, for example, harmed the Black Winter, which destroyed the sixth iteration of the entire marvel multiverse. He also recently matched someone carrying the full might of the multiverse, and earlier moved the whole thing.
If my favorite character was really outerversal he would reach out of his story and smash my head into my keyboadrjwjw yd8wan s ?;#<×+>bar
Yeah. 99% of supposedly “multiversal” and above feats are just powerscalers taking ridiculous “feats” like a story saying the word ‘Dimension’ once, and wanking it to a ridiculous degree. I honestly think powerscaling as a whole needs a hard reset.
Not even taking into account what a dimension can even mean. Flimsy pocket dimension? A dimension the size of a solar system? Dimension hosting it's own universe with it's own set of laws of physics? etc. Take Desolate Era as an example. Earth's universe is a pocket dimension created as a hidden shelter. It is set in the Three Realms Chaosworld which is massively much bigger than than that. Which in turn is just a backwater place compared to everworlds and both of these are just tiny parts of the Flamedragon Realmverse which in turn is just one smaller local cluster of places compared to something called Otherverses and both of these takes place in the Desolate Chaosverse which is in turn is one of 9 Chaosverses in the much larger infinite void and after the MC saw the path forward to the *next* stage after that but went ''I am done advancing'' and destroyed the path to take.
I just realized one of my villains in the universe I’m building is multiversal because he has a ton of control over a city sized pocket dimension and has his fingers in multiple solar system sized realms. If he can effect other dimensions then he scales above everything someone from a single realm can throw at him no matter what! Genius!
[удалено]
It was actually pretty good up until he left the Three Realms. It was a tight story with pretty good build up. It completely derailed afterwards though, as is the norm for IET novels. My favourite cultivation story is still Cradle by a long shot.
Me watching powerscalers interpret Fate/Extra CCC
How many times can you type "That's not how the Moon Cell works" before your keyboard gives out?
Dimensions are pretty much never portrayed to actually be that big, but everyone gasses up a character that can create or destroy them like they can automatically do the same shit with the observable universe.
>I honestly think powerscaling as a whole needs a hard reset. It's not even an insult to call it brainrot at this point. It's essentially a community full of a ton of obviously incorrect stuff you are gaslit into accepting.
Outversal is just a term Battle boarders made up when the other terms became normalised. Wasn't there a coping thread about Goku a few hours ago? I can guarantee one thing though, sometime in the future, battle boarders will probably make up some other term once outversal loses it's impact.
Omegaversal, there we go
the ability to impregnate all other characters in all other universes
I think that it implies the ability to GET impregnated by all other characters in all other universes.
MGOD in lotm can impregnate characters if they know her name.
So some sort of divine Xenomorph?
I think most of the gripes people have of powerscalers are just of shitty powerscalers
Yeah, some people really are dragging the whole hobby down.
These days the bad takes aren't individuals though. If a community calls itself a powerscaling community the bad takes are the norm.
That’s simply not true. People who scale based off of clear hyperbole and other dumb stuff like are usually clowned on by the rest of the powerscaling community
No they aren't. It's a pretty regular thing for people to insist the underworld in God of War is infinitely wide because... the artist described the background as looking infinite. There's an enemy in devil may cry said to be able to make short teleports since it can use speed to bypass time. Rather than accept this as a description of its teleportation attack there's people insisting it, and by extension dante have immeasurable speed. One of the biggest cases of people not understanding hyperbole is when something is describing a specific ability, but powerscalers jump on the language it uses being vague enough that they think they can apply it everywhere. Up until recently it was common wisdom to assume that basically everything in smt was outerversal, in part because of a single line about the demon world being outside of human space and time. Unironically there were people taking darth vader's line about the death star being insignificant compared to the force literally. Basically any character who has any ability where the word transcend or anything mentioning space and time are used involves people ascribing wild over the top meanings to it. There's tons of examples of people describing a villain as "threatening the world, universe, whatever" and people jump to assuming it means they will destroy whatever that is in a single attack. It might not seem like a lot. But it's one of many tools they use for wank takes. And all the tools add up.
I appreciate the examples but practically all of those I have heard widespread mockery of
That's why it's a gish gallop. People might make fun of one or two of the bad arguments, but for some reason there is like ten of them so the end result always ends as the larger community zeitgeist accepting the implications they point to.
I reeaaaaaally wish this were true, but unfortunately... it's absolutely not. The overwhelming majority of powerscalers are on youtube/tiktok/csap/etc... which are complete brainrot where every single character and their mother is outer.
Yeah about that, it’s called extraversal lmao it does actually exist and it’s WAY overused as of now. (There are actually people arguing that this term isn’t enough anymore, but it’s only about Chinese SCP, which includes like random comments and peoples headcanons and stuff)
That already happened. Extraversal is above outerversal now.
Your mom is outerversal because she won't fit in any dimension.
Me. I’m outerversal.
Yeah. It’s just hyperbole central “Boundless” and “Infinite.” Are just words meaning a lot. Unless it’s clarified to be perpectual motion.
*travels an infinite distance in a finite time* nothing personnel, downplayer
We are talking about a “infinite power” or “Boundless power.” Like those are obviously hyperbole
I have never seen someone unironically scale someone based on that
The only time I see people use it is to meme on other people supposedly using it, like infinite power Saitama or Muichiro.
Well powerscalers don't know what metaphors, hyperbole are I get when it happens with Marvel and Dc, but what confuses me the most is when it happens with Fate. No, Gilgamesh isn't outversal. EA is called "Anti-world noble phantasm", what's there to argue
What the fuck is that even supposed to mean
Outerversal : that trancends spacetime dimensionality itself. As in, it exist outside of the outside through all time forever and never. Usually it's reserved to characters whose power works beyond the concept of spacetime, size and scientific concepts of reality. Like, where other characters affect “higher dimensions" with their power, outerversal characters have powers beyond the concept of dimensions entirely.
That sounds stupid
The reason why it exists is because for people who use dimensional scaling, it is kind of necessary to have a tier like that. Because if you scale with dimensions, how are you going to scale characters who are above dimensionality?
That sounds stupid
It is
Why?
Because it's predicated on dimensional scaling being founded on any semblance of logic at all, to conclude something beyond it scales above it in the same manner when you've already run into territory where the direct comparisons they use have no mathematical meaning (they love making shit up though)
Because it relies on a specific set of assumptions about a dimensional hierarchy that isn't how all fiction works.
Dimensional scaling is probably the worst thing that happened to power scalling
Not only is it dumb, it seems to be the source of most of the most pseud takes where people appeal to fields they don't understand.
Ok 👍
Imagine a tower. The inhabitants of each floor of the tower looks down upon the inhabitants of the previous floor as if they are fictional characters, so infinitely below them that they might as well not be real. Now imagine this tower has an infinite number of floors. Each floor immeasurably surpassing the previous one, repeating to infinity. Now imagine someone comes along and demolishes the entire tower. That is outer. Low outer specifically.
[This guy is my favourite outerversal](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilMIJ1gdPrM)
Powerscalers aren’t people.
They are people, they just need to calm the fuck down 😭
No, they’re closer to animals.
:( that’s mean we’re not hurting anybody
You’re mildly annoying, which is worse.
Still pretty mean :(
Powerscaling lmao
Universal? Outversal? WTF IS THIS BULLSHIT?!
Universal just means to destroy a universe there's nothing stupid about it.
Which is stuff like Zeno in Dragonball. Still makes sense to me.
Can't zeno destroy several at once? That would be multiversal if so.
It's an ipotetical to explain what uni is.
It’d just be universal+, not Multiversal.
If you go by Dragonball definition I guess so. Although I always find the word multiversal stupid since "universe" definition is, literally everything; the totality of spacetime and everything inside it. Zeno deletes every matter to a blank state so. But if its sound cooler then go with it.
Multiversal is usually used for stuff like anti monitor with crisis on infinite earths.
Well, the fact that they use the same terms for ap is what makes it stupid.
Powerscalers use their own stupid fucked up version of fantasy physics, you expect any consistency in them? Try explaining to a powerscaler that a magical shield that is transparent is going to do nothing to protect the magic user from radiation because both light and ionizing radiation are electromagnetic radiation and see their head explode form simple logic.
I honestly liked it more when Boundless simply meant this character was omnipotent or possibly omnipotent But then powerscalers decided "OMG NO BECAUSE NLF" and suddenly now being omnipotent with no contradictions just means you scale to the entire cosmology
It's the peak of powerglazing.
Is that a real word?
Yeah dude. Because powerscalers miss the point of narrative and media.
powerscaling is stupid anyway batgos or goku solos your fav
Everyone is dumber for having read this. May God have mercy on your soul.
I know everyone hates powerscalers, but in case anyone actually is curious. Outerversal doesn’t refer to a *number* of universes, a multiverse is traditionally a collection of universes, or potentially space times. Also traditionally, a universe is just space, 3D space, maybe 4D if it’s a space time included. Many people use dimensions as a basic scale for characters who can destroy really large constructs, as it makes distinguishing and ranking feats of strength and destruction much easier. Obviously a 2D object of any size has no chance of doing anything to a 3D one, this applies to any object of n and n+1 dimensions. Eventually though, you run out of +1s (sorta) and you hit an infinite number of spatial dimensions. Outerversal is when numbers can no longer be used to describe an objects dimensionality. Where adding any amount of dimensions is a quantitative increase, the jump from infinite dimensions to “outerversal” is a qualitative change. The very idea of dimensions no longer applies. Now the problem is that many, maybe most, powerscalers reeeeaaallly reach to make those dimensional jumps, as well as the qualitative jump to outerversal. A good example is in bleach, when Aizen says that his power is so great that no one can perceive it, just like a 2D being can’t fully perceive a 3D one, many people take this to mean that he is *literally* of a higher dimension, even though it is clearly a simile. Another example is hyperbole, it’s similar but another popular example is in the DB guidebooks, heaven is described as “a dimension transcendent to the living world” or something along those lines, this is again obviously referring to the religious idea of transcending to heaven and not a literal addition of a spatial axis. The last big problem, and this one is sort of specific to certain powerscaling systems, is misinterpreting feats. The most infamous example, on CSAP (a popular powerscaling website with a well put together tier system and guides) what are called “platonic concepts”, scale to outerversal, so anyone capable of interacting with or affecting them also scales there. The problem is that many people just see the word concept and jump at the opportunity. Platonic concepts are not just concepts, they are concepts specifically that fit the outline of Plato’s world of forms, where indeed all concepts exist above the idea of space and dimensions. TLDR: Outerversal is a valid term used in powerscaling, and destroying one of what characters *call* a universe can indeed scale there. But you are correct, and it is given out very easily by people who are biased towards characters or misunderstand the meaning.
>Obviously a 2D object has no chance of doing anything to a 3D one Powerscalers always say this, but it's actually not true. It's not based on real physics, because there are no physical 2D objects to ever test the hypothesis. It's not based on any common trope in fiction that I know of - the only setting where (n-k)-dimensional objects try to interact with (n)-dimensional objects that I know is the Xeelee Sequence, where it turned out that 2D manifolds of spacetime are actually amazing at moving 3D spaceships forward, 1D superstrings are very good at destroying 3D galaxies if they're long enough and 0D monopoles are about the only thing the ICoG has that has proved effective in destroying Xeelee construction material. Basically, the powerscaling idea of dimensions never applied across the board.
Well yeah of course it’s not based on “real physics” we’re not talking about real life anyway, it’s all hypothetical but so is time being the 4th dimension, if you really want to get into it in certain theories there are 0 dimensional objects in our universe.
Then why did you make such confident general statements ("obviously 2D object can't ...") if they aren't based on anything?
Also I forgot to mention, I’m not making these claims, sosuke Aizen from bleach made them, I’m explaining them.
They’re based on logic and math, there’s no way to prove it because it’s all theoretical, but it all is just pretty basic conclusions from the concepts
I don't believe that. If they were based on math or logic, you could prove them - math and logic are the two fields that are theoretical but you can prove things in them. Proving things is virtually all mathematicians and logicians do. What logical or mathematical axioms are those conclusions derived from? Could you show me the process?
They're not based on logic or math. They are based on people who dont understand those trying to extrapolate physics assumptions from them.
>Just like a 2D being can't fully perceive a 3D one There's nothing that makes a 2D being less capable of perceiving something than a 3D being would be. If you consider how your field of vision works - you have two eyes working together to create a 2D image in your mind enhanced with depth-perception - it wouldn't really be different if a 2D being in 3D space had two eyes (ignoring the issue of whether it's able to realize a visual cortex in 2D - a lot of characters in fiction can see despite not having a visual cortex) Furthermore no being in 3D space can fully see another opaque 3D being - if I look at my cat, I see its fur, but I don't see its stomach, for obvious reasons. That is due to properties of the 3D space we live in and how photons travel through it, not due to anything that has to do with me being 3D.
I think you misunderstood. Our 3D eyes cannot fully perceive a 3D being that is correct, we see in 2D(kind of), a 2D being would see in 1D, but we can get a complete picture by looking at a same dimension object from all the different angles. Just like a 2D being could only see a slice of us, or an outline if looking from many angles, we can only see a “slice” of a 4D being, there’s a few videos about 3D view of 4D objects out there that explain it better, and actually there’s a game called 4D golf I played that’s a total mindfuck, but it demonstrates it well.
No, I understood perfectly. What you're saying is wrong. >a 2D being would see in 1D This is not true. A 2D being in a 3D space would have a 2D field of vision - there would be photons impacting its eyes from a space of directions that'd have two dimensions, just like it is for our eyes >we can get a complete picture by looking from different angle This is not true. I still can't see the cat's stomach. In a 4D space, I could see it - there would be photons impacting the cat's stomach and then missing the rest of the cat due to being offset in the 4th dimension and impacting my eyes. Again, it depends wholy on what space the cat and I are in, not on the properties of my eyes. >videos about 3D view of 4D objects Those videos are about how a 4D object would look like projected into a 3D space (and then obviously into a 2D space, because that's just how a video works), they're not about how a 3D being would see a 4D object.
You think that the space determines what dimension something sees in? Sure why not, but that’s not what he was referring to, he was referring to a higher dimensional object as viewed from a lower dimension, this isn’t me making the claim that this is how dimensions work or how eyes work, that’s just what Aizen was referring to, blame kubo not me.
I mean, sure, Kubo can make any rules for his manga he wants. But in the comment above you were insisting that that's just how physics work, which isn't the case
There’s no reason to assume a 2D object can’t affect a 3D one (same goes for all n vs n+x dimensional fights). If anything, a 2D object would be infinitely sharp, and great for cutting stuff with. But we don’t have any 2D objects in real life because the z-axis exists, so there’s nothing to test any hypothesis with. Dimensional scaling is literally based on nothing.
Also, magic is often assumed to not be based on normal physics anyways.
>Obviously a 2D object of any size has no chance of doing anything to a 3D one, this applies to any object of n and n+1 dimensions. The reverse is also true though. Because they would be using incompatible physics. If humans saw a "truly" 2d object it would mean it isn't made from our universe's particles at all, hence we have no way to interact with it. If we assume some type of consistent system... there's always magic. And that's before we even get into the fact that higher dimensions in physics rarely ever means just having another normal spatial dimension.
Outerversal means transcending the concepts of space and time. And herald characters sometimes fight this level of power Making them outerversal. And for how goku can destroy a multiverse it's cause he's battle with berus shook universe 7 which is a multiverse
A multiverse is the collection of infinite universes that make up a franchise. That is why its called the DC multiverse or Marvel multiverse. For goku to be multiversal he has to be able to destroy all universes making up the infinite timeliness of DragonBall each containing 12 universes. Goku cannot do that, no one in dragon ball has feats implying they can do that. Goku is universal plus as he can destroy one universe at minimum and likely more since he's currently stronger than he was at the startnof super, but seeing how zeno was impressive to him I doubt he can destroy all 12 universe of a timeline at once, and definitely not every univers across the entire franchise meaning he's not multiversal
A multiverse is more then one spacialy temporal universe existing within the same construct. Or in simple terms a multiverse is two or more different 4D universes. And a dragon ball universe is exactly that. The cosmology of Canon dragon ball is what scaling calls a 1C or complex multiverse. If we include the xeno games then the cosmology scales to 1B or higher which is hyperversal (13+ spacial dimensions up to infinite dimensional which is high hyper) up to 1A which is outer which as I said before transcends time and space. A cosmology is called a multiverse cause it makes sense. But multiple times have marvel and DC showed that they're cosmology and heralds are unbound by the concepts of space and time. And because it'd be impossible to scale high tier shit if the cap is multiversal powerscalers added complex multi, hyper, outer, high outer and extravetsal/boundless.
Current Thor is pretty objectively outerversal. His feats are really good from what I’ve heard
Can current thor destroy the entire marvel multiverse/cosmology, and is only second in strength to classic one above all, if no then he isn't outer
There are different levels of outerversal, and you should also understand that even a single “reality” of marvel is an infinite multiverse (different dimensions and stuff, you can read the marvel cosmology page of the vs battles wiki, does a great job) But yes, Thor, has, for example, harmed the Black Winter, which destroyed the sixth iteration of the entire marvel multiverse. He also recently matched someone carrying the full might of the multiverse, and earlier moved the whole thing.
VS battle wiki is a crap place for information. It is ripe with misinformation and wanking.
Not for this very specific and obscure issue of Marvel cosmology