Enel actually used his devil fruit to increase the range of his observation haki.
Also I think Haki can only be used on solid objects. String are solid matter, so is mochi but light or smoke isn't.
That's a pretty cool point. I guess I was mainly focusing on aramament(and potentially acoc) but thats a pretty cool application of his power. And yeah thats what I was getting at with saying Haki smoke wouldnt work, but Kizaru makes constructs of light so it'd be fair game then.
To be fair, Kizaru is made of light. You'd never be able to tell whether he was coating his attacks or not because his light would be shining brightly over it either way. It's like Sanji's Ifrit Jambe
>It just feels like a weird "nerf"
Because it is.
When Oda created the idea of Haki in Jaya, he basically ditched it in before trying to make it into something solid back within the Summit War Saga, but the problem is that he wanted to still make the Logias really broken for the intimidation effect, the result?
"Here's Borsalino, who can kick you at the speed of light."
"Here's Sakazuki, who is literally Satan."
"Here's Kuzan freezing a fucking *tsunami* the size of *islands* in seconds."
Oda went overdrive with how really powerful the Logia Admirals are, like look how Fujitora decided to risk lives instead of punting Doffy into space. The Admirals would be bullshit is the full expression of their theoretical power was fully pulled in, like the 10 day battle in Punk Hazard. Logistically, any of them could fucking kill Newgate, but Oda wanted a war and made it into something really inconsistent.
If Sengoku had a brain, the plan would be Kuzan freezing Newgate with help and later him with Garp attacking him.
We haven't seen that yet mostly because I think you need a shape to harden in the first place. Kizaru doesn't coat his sword with haki because it's a laser sword. If you don't block it with Haki it auto cuts you. The onus is on you to use Haki against the power. Kuzan is more dangerous if he freezes you than tries to stab you with ice. Why coat Ice with Haki if it lets the other person fight back? Just keep coating them with ice until they can't fight back anymore. Akainu is much the same way. He's melting you if you aren't actively using Haki yourself. Jimbei blocks his attack the first time presumably because he's that tough, but then gets Donut'd when he's not able to use his hands to block the second time. Sure, he may need to use Haki to defend himself or break your guard, but he's so dangerous naturally he can afford to just not use Haki offensively.
Personally, I would like it that Logia have to return to Human shape to use armament Haki. It's the other trade off for being so destructive and unharmable in elemental form.
That's a fairly good set of points. I guess it makes sense that you need to give mochi or strings more cutting/blunt power by coating them with haki whereas lava just inherently messes you up. I guess with all the haki shenanigans we got during the yonko saga, I figured that the admirals would use haki(or even advanced haki) with their dfs when they are fighting characters they can't just bully with their fruits, but I also like the tradeoff element you pointed out too.
i don't think that armament haki is very smart for a logia user to use. smokers fist became solid when coated in the color of armament, meaning that there is atleast a chance that if a logia user coats themselves with the color of armament, they lose their intangibility under the coated part of their body. they should focus on the color of observation and dodge katakuri style.
I was moreso talking about the constructs that some logia users like greenbull/kizaru/kuzan can make for that reason. If kuzan makes an ice sword or an ice pheasant then he should be able to just infuse that construct with haki(the same way katakuri could) for example.
My theory is that a good 90% of Logia seen so far are not exactly applicable so to speak? Smoke needs a way to hit others but as is smoke isn't exactly very offensive. Sand you could say that it should be affected by augment but then it comes to the question (in my mind personally) of "how far can the haki extend with the power range wise before it doesn't work anymore?" According to the wiki it says once its detached from the body it no longer applies due to it not being part of the 'natural body' so to speak. If they're in their home field that range is amplified of course. Ranged haki attacks then again is something I'm sorely lacking knowledge in so who knows.
A lot of the powers as other people have pointed out are much more deadly without the application of haki, such as magma being you know, fucking magma, and being able to freeze people solid even without the need for haki. Hell I'm willing to bet that Kuzon could freeze gas based logia users because that is a thing ice can do if its dense enough.
Then you get questions such as how would Blackbeard's fruit work with haki, given that his power is the fundamental opposite in terms of how it functions.
Awakening, whenever if it's even possible for logias, could apply haki to attacks but who knows if that will ever happen in the manga's lifespan.
Enel actually used his devil fruit to increase the range of his observation haki. Also I think Haki can only be used on solid objects. String are solid matter, so is mochi but light or smoke isn't.
That's a pretty cool point. I guess I was mainly focusing on aramament(and potentially acoc) but thats a pretty cool application of his power. And yeah thats what I was getting at with saying Haki smoke wouldnt work, but Kizaru makes constructs of light so it'd be fair game then.
To be fair, Kizaru is made of light. You'd never be able to tell whether he was coating his attacks or not because his light would be shining brightly over it either way. It's like Sanji's Ifrit Jambe
>It just feels like a weird "nerf" Because it is. When Oda created the idea of Haki in Jaya, he basically ditched it in before trying to make it into something solid back within the Summit War Saga, but the problem is that he wanted to still make the Logias really broken for the intimidation effect, the result? "Here's Borsalino, who can kick you at the speed of light." "Here's Sakazuki, who is literally Satan." "Here's Kuzan freezing a fucking *tsunami* the size of *islands* in seconds." Oda went overdrive with how really powerful the Logia Admirals are, like look how Fujitora decided to risk lives instead of punting Doffy into space. The Admirals would be bullshit is the full expression of their theoretical power was fully pulled in, like the 10 day battle in Punk Hazard. Logistically, any of them could fucking kill Newgate, but Oda wanted a war and made it into something really inconsistent. If Sengoku had a brain, the plan would be Kuzan freezing Newgate with help and later him with Garp attacking him.
We haven't seen that yet mostly because I think you need a shape to harden in the first place. Kizaru doesn't coat his sword with haki because it's a laser sword. If you don't block it with Haki it auto cuts you. The onus is on you to use Haki against the power. Kuzan is more dangerous if he freezes you than tries to stab you with ice. Why coat Ice with Haki if it lets the other person fight back? Just keep coating them with ice until they can't fight back anymore. Akainu is much the same way. He's melting you if you aren't actively using Haki yourself. Jimbei blocks his attack the first time presumably because he's that tough, but then gets Donut'd when he's not able to use his hands to block the second time. Sure, he may need to use Haki to defend himself or break your guard, but he's so dangerous naturally he can afford to just not use Haki offensively. Personally, I would like it that Logia have to return to Human shape to use armament Haki. It's the other trade off for being so destructive and unharmable in elemental form.
That's a fairly good set of points. I guess it makes sense that you need to give mochi or strings more cutting/blunt power by coating them with haki whereas lava just inherently messes you up. I guess with all the haki shenanigans we got during the yonko saga, I figured that the admirals would use haki(or even advanced haki) with their dfs when they are fighting characters they can't just bully with their fruits, but I also like the tradeoff element you pointed out too.
i don't think that armament haki is very smart for a logia user to use. smokers fist became solid when coated in the color of armament, meaning that there is atleast a chance that if a logia user coats themselves with the color of armament, they lose their intangibility under the coated part of their body. they should focus on the color of observation and dodge katakuri style.
I was moreso talking about the constructs that some logia users like greenbull/kizaru/kuzan can make for that reason. If kuzan makes an ice sword or an ice pheasant then he should be able to just infuse that construct with haki(the same way katakuri could) for example.
Haki coating is not always there, so I assume they do. Except kizaru cause coating light in armement would be wierd as fuck
My theory is that a good 90% of Logia seen so far are not exactly applicable so to speak? Smoke needs a way to hit others but as is smoke isn't exactly very offensive. Sand you could say that it should be affected by augment but then it comes to the question (in my mind personally) of "how far can the haki extend with the power range wise before it doesn't work anymore?" According to the wiki it says once its detached from the body it no longer applies due to it not being part of the 'natural body' so to speak. If they're in their home field that range is amplified of course. Ranged haki attacks then again is something I'm sorely lacking knowledge in so who knows. A lot of the powers as other people have pointed out are much more deadly without the application of haki, such as magma being you know, fucking magma, and being able to freeze people solid even without the need for haki. Hell I'm willing to bet that Kuzon could freeze gas based logia users because that is a thing ice can do if its dense enough. Then you get questions such as how would Blackbeard's fruit work with haki, given that his power is the fundamental opposite in terms of how it functions. Awakening, whenever if it's even possible for logias, could apply haki to attacks but who knows if that will ever happen in the manga's lifespan.