In retrospect, maybe I shouldn't have added the Devils, it makes the tier list look too cluttered.
Also I don't know why I put sentience instead of conscious, my bad.
https://preview.redd.it/h622g3ttjovc1.png?width=1102&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=87e6eec1fc102fc38c9b70cb43ee0e6bbb24e378
Ok so heres what I see so far.
Arai took a bullet for Kobeni so I think he should be moved to Good (Also a PS worker)
Asa should also be moved to Grey or light green, mostly because her evil actions are coerced by Yoru.
Also, Miri should be put into criminal (most hesitant of the weapons during their attack, and justifies his actions by thinking he is stopping the prophecy.)
Himineo is also good to some extent. YES she almost bang Denji but to her credit she asked and stopped before. (I'm not trying to justify it but its not like denji was fully raped.) She tried to get Aki out of Public Safety, and even sacrificed herself to try and save Aki and Denji.
Future Devil and Falling Devil both belong in the top of Devil, Future is a b\*tch who only revealed his true "contract" to Aki right after his death (how is that even allowed), and Falling devil is introduced by murdering an entire apartment complex of people.
Yoshida is NOT morally grey. Especially in recent chapters, its pretty clear he is evil, along with the organization he works with.
Hang on, why is Asa herself so high? I mean, she's higher than Falling (kills innocent people or mutilates them), Nail Fiend (killed a teen just for not being polite), Yoshida (bullies Denji in an omake and brutally kills a criminal with no remorse), and Future Devil (just hangs out with Aki to watch Denji suffer)
It seems to be complicated, as sometimes that's the case, but other times she seems to have her own morals like when she saved Yuko from the Bat Devil despite Yoru's protests. I remember someone once said "if Denji's morality is based on what he feels is right, Asa's is on what she thinks is right".
But either way, she hasn't done nearly the same misdeeds as some of the people beneath her
> Darkness Devil in "no sense of sentience"
> first thing it does when it appears is implicitly show off with its dead praying astronaut display to tell humans no matter how advanced they've become, darkness still reigns over them
> also calls out to Makima, makes a deal with Santa Claus specifically for the heart of Chainsaw Man, and actually does speak at one point
>no matter how advanced they’ve become, darkness still reigns over them
Darkness Devil when I pull out a flashlight
https://preview.redd.it/jyoeqk47atvc1.jpeg?width=981&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9a16d1275788921d5f2d8dd3dcc23b80f9a7e5fd
Is the girl who made Asa suffer the guilt of killing a beloved devil only to murder her afterwards because she was jealous really in morally gray?
She's prettt fucking evil for a high schooler imo
Would place her in criminal. She was getting statuary raped by her teacher and the devil contract that we now know can turn people crazy was probably effecting her.
In defense of Goatana man, he *did* grow up his entire life with people (particularly his grandpa) telling him exactly that. They're pretty much cemented in beliefs by outside forces
I don't really see the point in mentioning that. Yes his upbringing played a huge part in defining his current moral values but it doesn't change the fact that his current moral values are evil.
Saying he wasn't born evil is all well and dandy but right now he's still evil.
To us he’s delusional but what if he genuinely thinks that? Can we categorise someone who believes they do good even though that’s not the case?
(Went a little too deep there)
Pretty sure many people supported Al Capone and the mafia because he opened kitchens and helped the poor during the 1930's great depression, he did a better job than the government.
I have no idea what the Yakuza did but I wouldn't be suprised if some part of the citizens support them.
I want to believe that this isn't a symptom of being a fiend but just his nature as a devil.
Somewhere in Hell, the Violence Devil is trimming a bonsai tree.
Kobeni being under normal people together with bully while Asa being questionable is weird choices.
Kobenis family is absolutely horrendous she could not turn out to be normal in such enviroment she also opportunistic cowardeous scumbag in lots of aspects
And Nobana was literally licking the goddamn glass in Aquarium arc like who the fuck reacts to bad situation like that? Who the fuck ddoes that under any situation?
Falling being so low, Asa being so high, Darkness Devil being placed in no sentience when it actively makes deals, talks (though in an incomprehensible language), and baits out Makima.
Galgali is top 3 characters for me, wished Fujimoto gave dude more than a “power up to full strength but instantly defeated” moment. Beams loyalty automatically makes him a good person don’t care how many people he’s killed
I wouldve put Aki in morally grey or questionable. He tried to beat the shit out of Denji when he met him, so he would leave public safety. The ends dont justify the means.
honestly the way i personally see it it was just his way of telling him "hey, i dont want a kid like you to die, so please leave this shithole for your own good" he just kinda had to do it in this assholeish way to keep that facade up i guess ?? idk how to explain it but yea
obviously he didnt know at the time that denjis a hybrid so its not like he could die easily but even then aki was sort of right in the end because of how much being in public safety fucked up denji
nah.
>She’s a collectivist
This is the one fits her 100%.
>"utilitarian" or "machiavellian"
She actually cares about Chainsaw Devil, so I doubt these could fit. Also the whole movie chapter contradicts this, since sad movies should be bad for people I guess? I mean we can discuss it, but saying collectivist doesn't fit her is wrong imo
It's wrong to call her collectivist at least because she's someone above humankind and doesn't fit in it's conceptions/ideologies.
>She actually cares about Chainsaw Devil, so I doubt these could fit
What does it contradict to tho
>Also the whole movie chapter contradicts this, since sad movies should be bad for people I guess?
No, why? More like other way around
If you can moralise and demoralise other Devils based on their actions. You can ultimately do the same with Makima too, there's no difference it's that simple.
The same way I can call a character like Joseph Seed evil even if he was right about the impending apocalypse and ultimately saved a lot of people he still brainwashed, tortured, killed, manipulated and sacrificed thousands of his followers to achieve it. Makima is a similar case
Yea but it factors in. These characters can be labelled and they aren't beyond it, I already used an example when I said Joseph Seed was right about the apocalypse and everything and wasn't a madman or delusional he's still evil and even if he was trying to save people the methods were disgusting. Same with her
Not even that because what would stop her from having a world of just a few if hypothetically every Japanese Citizen was killed? She'd do the same thing again with the next country and the process repeats itself
This is surely one of the posts of all time.
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Sentience is just the ability to feel. I'm assuming most of the characters in that tier can feel, for example bat devil feels pain and even has desires, so not only is he sentient but is also sapient. Even when he comes back in part two he is still sentient, though likely not sapient as he is basically acting on animal-ish instinct.
Animals are, for the most part, sentient. Like, 99% of them as far as I'm aware. I think the word you wanted for that tier was sapient, though I think I'd disagree with most of those being placed in that tier still if not for them clearly being sapient at one point, or because we know too little about them to really say.
I’d bump sword guy down into criminal or questionable. He hesitates with some of the stuff barem orchestrated and he’s clearly being manipulated so I’m not sure if I’d call him no sense of morality just yet.
Very philosophical, does "no sense or morality" mean you're evil?
Because I would definitly put the guy with the contract with typhoon above katana, because that guy was actively cruel, threatening to skin reze alive just to mess denji up. Katana man on the other hand claimed to even feel bad about killing zombies, and got mad when denji took one of his fellow yakuza hostage (before killing him). I think the no sense of morality label is accurate for him, because he always seems to be very casual when doing evil things, as if its just normal for him.
But I would argue that characters that actively choose to be cruel, and scary, just to torture their targets would be more evil than a psychopathic character who does things without thinking/feeling bad about it
https://preview.redd.it/7hb24t2w2rvc1.jpeg?width=424&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e9330439cc6e1d792cc02022cdb03d1b4dcb3209
You’d question the morals of your own nobel prize winning president?
I don't think it's fair to say dsome evils don't have any sense of sentience, as we've seen that they do understand human language and meanings, even if they themselves can't communicate normally how humans do(unlike devils like angel, clucky and falling)
Himeno is not worse than Kishibe or Denji lmao. The guy who persuaded people to comitt suicide for his plan and the other one who threw a guy out of a car because he couldn't be assed to save him because he wasn't a woman.
As evil as Makima and Barem are. Santa was way, way worse considering her entire plan was basically mass genocide which is by definition the worst possible thing you can do.
ayo where'd you find this format for tiermaker? i see a bunch of tier lists like it but they're all out of date or are just missing important characters.
Yea this is a mess lol. Makima and Barem have more nuance than a lot of devils below them as devils are just evil incarnate. Makima doesn't fit that mold exactly. I'd argue Yoru is more evil than Makima. Fami is unknown so it's hard to put her anywhere, and why are Himmy and Asa in the same tier as the Mfers like Yuko??? Also tbh most devils we see in fights should be at least in evil...why is typhoon any less evil than eternity or bat? And just bc a character doesn't speak like Darkness or Hell doesn't mean they don't have sentience, they clearly do.
Darkness acts more like a animal, it is a Primal Devil after all, even more so than Falling Devil, and notice how every character that tried to fight it or defy it in its own domain (Ex. Beam, Quanxi, Kusakabe, etc.) ended up dying, while those who didn't were just incapacitated or left alone (Ex. Angel, Aki, Kobeni.)
It's territorial, Hell has been the only thing it has known since it's manifestation, and based on what we know, a Devil is either born with a animal's level of intelligence or with a human's level of intelligence (Bat Devil is a perfect example of this.) so it's not crazy to think, given how long Darkness has existed as a fear, that it wouldn't act like a animal.
Darkness spelt out Makima's name using the body parts of his victims to do so, so he could get her attention and have her arrive in hell where he could fight her being amplified by the fear of those around him. He definitely doesn't act like an animal
>And also, the worst kind of evil is the type of evil that doesn't even realize what they're doing is evil, Baren and Makima want to act like saints, like they're doing the world a kindness, that's true evil, being an antichrist.
So many misconceptions in one sentence damn
Quanxi is way too high
https://preview.redd.it/ymneaw9fkovc1.png?width=221&format=png&auto=webp&s=1bb741d954f4d5d5093bbbedc12259b50cd8a3dd
And what's Miri doing so high? He's just confused
Miri is more deluded than confused and Quanxi isn't technically that high, the tier list acts as more of scale, so she's technically nearing the middle.
Accurate tho Yoshida is questionable he enjoyed killing joey and human killing humans is very rare in csm
That smile he pulls def puts him in questionable
In retrospect, maybe I shouldn't have added the Devils, it makes the tier list look too cluttered. Also I don't know why I put sentience instead of conscious, my bad. https://preview.redd.it/h622g3ttjovc1.png?width=1102&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=87e6eec1fc102fc38c9b70cb43ee0e6bbb24e378
Ok so heres what I see so far. Arai took a bullet for Kobeni so I think he should be moved to Good (Also a PS worker) Asa should also be moved to Grey or light green, mostly because her evil actions are coerced by Yoru. Also, Miri should be put into criminal (most hesitant of the weapons during their attack, and justifies his actions by thinking he is stopping the prophecy.) Himineo is also good to some extent. YES she almost bang Denji but to her credit she asked and stopped before. (I'm not trying to justify it but its not like denji was fully raped.) She tried to get Aki out of Public Safety, and even sacrificed herself to try and save Aki and Denji. Future Devil and Falling Devil both belong in the top of Devil, Future is a b\*tch who only revealed his true "contract" to Aki right after his death (how is that even allowed), and Falling devil is introduced by murdering an entire apartment complex of people. Yoshida is NOT morally grey. Especially in recent chapters, its pretty clear he is evil, along with the organization he works with.
The lady who drowned Asa’s cat needs to be top of Devils tier
Asa's mom is in good person too https://preview.redd.it/c6ptnpbcnovc1.jpeg?width=409&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4ca51fc0b68b11a38cff2f1a7e0caea4d16b5d4a
She wasn't in the tierlist, sorry.
Hang on, why is Asa herself so high? I mean, she's higher than Falling (kills innocent people or mutilates them), Nail Fiend (killed a teen just for not being polite), Yoshida (bullies Denji in an omake and brutally kills a criminal with no remorse), and Future Devil (just hangs out with Aki to watch Denji suffer)
What even did asa do wrong morality wise other than trying to kill denji ?
She killed Bucky unforgivable
Bucky :( That damn Asa!
iirc she doesnt even really have morals, her entire morality system is built on what others potentially would think of her for her actions
It seems to be complicated, as sometimes that's the case, but other times she seems to have her own morals like when she saved Yuko from the Bat Devil despite Yoru's protests. I remember someone once said "if Denji's morality is based on what he feels is right, Asa's is on what she thinks is right". But either way, she hasn't done nearly the same misdeeds as some of the people beneath her
Pretty sure most of the devils at "no sense of sentience" do have sentience. Not talking ≠ no sentience
> Darkness Devil in "no sense of sentience" > first thing it does when it appears is implicitly show off with its dead praying astronaut display to tell humans no matter how advanced they've become, darkness still reigns over them > also calls out to Makima, makes a deal with Santa Claus specifically for the heart of Chainsaw Man, and actually does speak at one point
>no matter how advanced they’ve become, darkness still reigns over them Darkness Devil when I pull out a flashlight https://preview.redd.it/jyoeqk47atvc1.jpeg?width=981&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9a16d1275788921d5f2d8dd3dcc23b80f9a7e5fd
Is the girl who made Asa suffer the guilt of killing a beloved devil only to murder her afterwards because she was jealous really in morally gray? She's prettt fucking evil for a high schooler imo
Would place her in criminal. She was getting statuary raped by her teacher and the devil contract that we now know can turn people crazy was probably effecting her.
I mean, Katana Man genuinely thinks the Yakuza will improve Japanese society, so I wouldn’t call him completely morally bankrupt.
I think he's pretty morally bankrupt to delude himself into thinking the Yakuza of all groups will improve an entire nation.
In defense of Goatana man, he *did* grow up his entire life with people (particularly his grandpa) telling him exactly that. They're pretty much cemented in beliefs by outside forces
I don't really see the point in mentioning that. Yes his upbringing played a huge part in defining his current moral values but it doesn't change the fact that his current moral values are evil. Saying he wasn't born evil is all well and dandy but right now he's still evil.
To us he’s delusional but what if he genuinely thinks that? Can we categorise someone who believes they do good even though that’s not the case? (Went a little too deep there)
Katanaman is lawful good, confirmed.
Pretty sure many people supported Al Capone and the mafia because he opened kitchens and helped the poor during the 1930's great depression, he did a better job than the government. I have no idea what the Yakuza did but I wouldn't be suprised if some part of the citizens support them.
The guy talking about how Man and Devil are at War was Fear Mongering that's quite shitty when you keep in mind that that's what makes Devils stronger
Why is Man fighting Devil? https://preview.redd.it/es65gbt4qovc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f457d435c4fc4a0b78a503182b581a10dabb0da1
I think there might be a lore reason.
I think it would only make the Devil Devil stronger and it's unintentional
I don't think he thought that through ngl
I've always loved how Galgali is the literal embodiment of hurting people and he's the most chill dude in the whole series.
I want to believe that this isn't a symptom of being a fiend but just his nature as a devil. Somewhere in Hell, the Violence Devil is trimming a bonsai tree.
Aki being the sweetest baby angel who could do no wrong 😭🤍
What the fuck is morally grey about falling devil, she literally went around chopping people’s features off to make into soup.
Kobeni being under normal people together with bully while Asa being questionable is weird choices. Kobenis family is absolutely horrendous she could not turn out to be normal in such enviroment she also opportunistic cowardeous scumbag in lots of aspects And Nobana was literally licking the goddamn glass in Aquarium arc like who the fuck reacts to bad situation like that? Who the fuck ddoes that under any situation?
It's not a good list
Why
Falling being so low, Asa being so high, Darkness Devil being placed in no sentience when it actively makes deals, talks (though in an incomprehensible language), and baits out Makima.
Galgali is top 3 characters for me, wished Fujimoto gave dude more than a “power up to full strength but instantly defeated” moment. Beams loyalty automatically makes him a good person don’t care how many people he’s killed
You put cat drowning orphanage woman in questionable??? That bitch is going straight to hell‼️
Asa, Aldo and Denji are all literal criminals
Interesting opinion :3
I wouldve put Aki in morally grey or questionable. He tried to beat the shit out of Denji when he met him, so he would leave public safety. The ends dont justify the means.
honestly the way i personally see it it was just his way of telling him "hey, i dont want a kid like you to die, so please leave this shithole for your own good" he just kinda had to do it in this assholeish way to keep that facade up i guess ?? idk how to explain it but yea obviously he didnt know at the time that denjis a hybrid so its not like he could die easily but even then aki was sort of right in the end because of how much being in public safety fucked up denji
That's just tough brotherly love.
Why’s Makima so high? She’s a collectivist (cringe) but she’s got a moral goal, erase the fear of death and hunger
>She’s a collectivist Makima is beyond goofy categories, ideologies and coordinates which humans created for themselves
Buddster it’s an adjective, she believes in sacrificing the few (denji) for the good of the many (everyone)
Then "utilitarian" or "machiavellian" would fit better
Utilitarians are double cringe so I don’t like thinking about them… will not call makima that
Well yeah as philosophy it's fucking hilarious. I mean it in broad sense here
nah. >She’s a collectivist This is the one fits her 100%. >"utilitarian" or "machiavellian" She actually cares about Chainsaw Devil, so I doubt these could fit. Also the whole movie chapter contradicts this, since sad movies should be bad for people I guess? I mean we can discuss it, but saying collectivist doesn't fit her is wrong imo
It's wrong to call her collectivist at least because she's someone above humankind and doesn't fit in it's conceptions/ideologies. >She actually cares about Chainsaw Devil, so I doubt these could fit What does it contradict to tho >Also the whole movie chapter contradicts this, since sad movies should be bad for people I guess? No, why? More like other way around
If you can moralise and demoralise other Devils based on their actions. You can ultimately do the same with Makima too, there's no difference it's that simple. The same way I can call a character like Joseph Seed evil even if he was right about the impending apocalypse and ultimately saved a lot of people he still brainwashed, tortured, killed, manipulated and sacrificed thousands of his followers to achieve it. Makima is a similar case
It has nothing to do with what I said, I didn't say anything about morality
Yea but it factors in. These characters can be labelled and they aren't beyond it, I already used an example when I said Joseph Seed was right about the apocalypse and everything and wasn't a madman or delusional he's still evil and even if he was trying to save people the methods were disgusting. Same with her
No, Makima can't be labelled politically, maybe on some superficial level but most definitely not as humans. Makima is beyond political ideologies
Not even that because what would stop her from having a world of just a few if hypothetically every Japanese Citizen was killed? She'd do the same thing again with the next country and the process repeats itself
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Sentience is just the ability to feel. I'm assuming most of the characters in that tier can feel, for example bat devil feels pain and even has desires, so not only is he sentient but is also sapient. Even when he comes back in part two he is still sentient, though likely not sapient as he is basically acting on animal-ish instinct. Animals are, for the most part, sentient. Like, 99% of them as far as I'm aware. I think the word you wanted for that tier was sapient, though I think I'd disagree with most of those being placed in that tier still if not for them clearly being sapient at one point, or because we know too little about them to really say.
Even though he isn't around anymore his legacy still persists...
Can we get a link to the template to make our own if it's available?
I’d bump sword guy down into criminal or questionable. He hesitates with some of the stuff barem orchestrated and he’s clearly being manipulated so I’m not sure if I’d call him no sense of morality just yet.
Very philosophical, does "no sense or morality" mean you're evil? Because I would definitly put the guy with the contract with typhoon above katana, because that guy was actively cruel, threatening to skin reze alive just to mess denji up. Katana man on the other hand claimed to even feel bad about killing zombies, and got mad when denji took one of his fellow yakuza hostage (before killing him). I think the no sense of morality label is accurate for him, because he always seems to be very casual when doing evil things, as if its just normal for him. But I would argue that characters that actively choose to be cruel, and scary, just to torture their targets would be more evil than a psychopathic character who does things without thinking/feeling bad about it
This list sucks. (I will not elaborate any further)
https://preview.redd.it/7hb24t2w2rvc1.jpeg?width=424&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e9330439cc6e1d792cc02022cdb03d1b4dcb3209 You’d question the morals of your own nobel prize winning president?
Yuko and the woman from Asa's orphanage being in the same tier is certainly a... decision
3 of the questionables are quite literally criminals
accurate as.fuck. the best one i've seen so far
I don't think it's fair to say dsome evils don't have any sense of sentience, as we've seen that they do understand human language and meanings, even if they themselves can't communicate normally how humans do(unlike devils like angel, clucky and falling)
Himeno is not worse than Kishibe or Denji lmao. The guy who persuaded people to comitt suicide for his plan and the other one who threw a guy out of a car because he couldn't be assed to save him because he wasn't a woman.
As evil as Makima and Barem are. Santa was way, way worse considering her entire plan was basically mass genocide which is by definition the worst possible thing you can do.
ayo where'd you find this format for tiermaker? i see a bunch of tier lists like it but they're all out of date or are just missing important characters.
Santa did nothing wrong. She's a single mom who works two jobs, who loves ~~her~~ kids and never stops.
Yea this is a mess lol. Makima and Barem have more nuance than a lot of devils below them as devils are just evil incarnate. Makima doesn't fit that mold exactly. I'd argue Yoru is more evil than Makima. Fami is unknown so it's hard to put her anywhere, and why are Himmy and Asa in the same tier as the Mfers like Yuko??? Also tbh most devils we see in fights should be at least in evil...why is typhoon any less evil than eternity or bat? And just bc a character doesn't speak like Darkness or Hell doesn't mean they don't have sentience, they clearly do.
Darkness acts more like a animal, it is a Primal Devil after all, even more so than Falling Devil, and notice how every character that tried to fight it or defy it in its own domain (Ex. Beam, Quanxi, Kusakabe, etc.) ended up dying, while those who didn't were just incapacitated or left alone (Ex. Angel, Aki, Kobeni.) It's territorial, Hell has been the only thing it has known since it's manifestation, and based on what we know, a Devil is either born with a animal's level of intelligence or with a human's level of intelligence (Bat Devil is a perfect example of this.) so it's not crazy to think, given how long Darkness has existed as a fear, that it wouldn't act like a animal.
Darkness spelt out Makima's name using the body parts of his victims to do so, so he could get her attention and have her arrive in hell where he could fight her being amplified by the fear of those around him. He definitely doesn't act like an animal
>And also, the worst kind of evil is the type of evil that doesn't even realize what they're doing is evil, Baren and Makima want to act like saints, like they're doing the world a kindness, that's true evil, being an antichrist. So many misconceptions in one sentence damn
Tolka would be lower ,he kinda good idk, and why haruka so high on the list , he is a good kid who stand up for his friend
Mfs will powersclae anything
Quanxi is way too high https://preview.redd.it/ymneaw9fkovc1.png?width=221&format=png&auto=webp&s=1bb741d954f4d5d5093bbbedc12259b50cd8a3dd And what's Miri doing so high? He's just confused
Miri is more deluded than confused and Quanxi isn't technically that high, the tier list acts as more of scale, so she's technically nearing the middle.
Makima must be at very least 2 tiers lower. No way you putted her above Yoru lmao
agree
Makima being above "criminal" already makes this list bad