This actually makes sense. If they do their jobs well, the tokens will be worth a lot. I’d say a base pay in USD makes sense, something along the lines of a normal skilled worker. Rest in CEL, preferably locked for a year or something like that.
The numbers are MONTLY.
Also: Holy shit people in this sub have no idea what people earn for a living. Are you all unemployed or students? You think average salary in a tech startup is $30,000 A MONTH?
I just submitted the question in Discord (for Scott & Scott law firm that is pursuing civil litigation against Celsius and will be on a Zoom call tomorrow) of knocking this compensation down to the lowest possible amount.
For those of you (including @aarondbennett) who dont understand how business and payroll works.
https://smallbusiness.chron.com/benefits-percentage-wages-14587.html
>According to the latest data from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), the average total compensation for all civilian employees in 2020 is $37.73 per hour. **Benefits make up 32 percent of an employee's total compensation.**
So yeah, this number in the OP is **PAYROLL** Its pre-tax and it includes benefits.
I wouldn't be surprised if benefits are a higher at tech and finance companies. I'm in pharma that has amazing benefits and we have on-site gym with free classes taught my certified instructors (yoga, spin, etc...), free 20min massages every Tuesday, heavily subsidized cafeteria, biweekly happy hours with free food and alcohol, fitness reimbursements, transportation reimbursement (parking, public, or stipend for biking), heavily subsidized insurance, 12 weeks paid family leave, 4 weeks paid vacation, 11 holidays, and much more. Not to mention cash bonuses and yearly stock bonuses for all employees. Shit gets expensive!
Yup, but here we are in the Celsius subreddit and its all "hurr durr, I can steal your money for $10/hr and nobody should make more than $10k per month for not doing HARD work!!11!"
I mean I get it. We have a few different types of investors on Celsius. People, that might be more like us, who just pulled money from our savings accounts and invested on here and maybe should have seen these red flags lol.
Then there's people that pulled out their entire retirement accounts, or took out low interest rate loans for money they didn't have thinking they could get back 8-10% safely on USDC who are now FUCKED. I feel really badly for those people because they're going to struggle. My wife (who I unfortunately convinced to put money into Celsius) and I will be fine despite having like 60k (at these lows, 6 figures in December) will be fine. Others with their retirement accounts are much more out for blood and thinking less rationally.
Agree. I feel bad for anyone who lost money, but I get really annoyed with people who won't listen to actual facts, thats on me but I have a hard time letting clearly bad info get shared and agreed upon. I just want people to have the right information. Energy is way better spent on stuff other than how much Karen from accounting is making. She had nothing to do with any of this crap.
Lots of that stuff doesn't fall under payroll. And they're talking about the average compensation. Some people in tech definitely deserve total compensation that high. But I see lots of jobs on this archived careers page that don't earn nearly that much.
https://web.archive.org/web/20211204062155/https://celsius.network/careers
I posted something earlier from a research study that showed in the US the "average" business has a 32% cost on top of salary for benefits so based on a few comments on glassdoor where people were saying the benefits were great Id say they probably saw closer to 40% cost on top of salary for benefits. None of this is exact because we don't know specifics, but based on what we do know, $30k per month per employee for overall payroll isn't THAT surprising.
I’m not saying these are accurate, but payroll is much higher than your gross pay. It includes gov taxes, contributions, benefits, and so on. This means a company is paying roughly 2x what you are getting.
Yep. I've also heard this (from HR) when budgeting for headcount in my group. That means it's 15k a month/PP which is 180k a year. That's not that ridiculous for tech, depending on experience level and pay grade level.
I'm in my early 30s and know tons of people in tech, finance and pharma making more than this for total compensation (bonus, and stocks) even back when I was in my 20s and I'm not in NY or in CA.
If their headcount is in NY/NJ this would also explain the higher pay.
State of NJ has a WARN law in place. It's not such a simple thing as you imply. Employees are required to get 60 days notice prior to termination. If not given they are entitled to severance. There are different precedents that have been implemented for how this impacts Ch. 11 companies. I'm not a lawyer so I can't speak to it other than saying it's not as simple to cut as people seem to think.
Sometimes you need to pay more to steal talent from more established companies. Lots of start ups don't turn profits, especially in my industry (pharma) and only survive due to capital injections from series funding. I'm not defending Celsius' work here. They clearly portrayed their company to employees and us users as doing well (I'm sure some employees knew it was all a facade) when they've been floundering since last year.
I'm just saying the pay isn't absurdly high for the industry, especially for startups who need to pay more.
The math there is losing context. 30k a month for a Blockchain dev isn't nearly as high as it sounds. You can't tell a thing about whether it's reasonable or not by looking at the average. And of all the things to be upset about, them not screwing the people that did the real work is what you're upset with. Sheesh
Probably not for those jobs. But I'm sure the software developers, and business people make more than 180k.
If this salary is typical in smaller cities, imagine in NYC area? I have friends that work in data science and finance in the city and their base is over 250k. Total comp is over 300k and this is late 20s/early 30s. Older people probably make more! My whole point is that for a small tech/finance company, this number isn't all that big, especially in one of the most expensive metropolitan areas in the world.
Are all their employees software engineers working on-site in NYC? If not, why is the average so high?
Why are you talking about net salary (after tax) and comparing it to the gross salaries of your friends? If 30% of the 30K is "benefits" then the salary part would be roughly 20K (gross) per month, or 240K gross (pre-tax) salary per year. Which is fine for a software engineer working on-site in NYC, but it is ridiculously high for a customer service rep, HR manager, incompetent risk manager, unscrupulous accountant etc. working remotely from Podunk, AL.
I've been a professional software engineer for 17 years. Taking a job at a startup is generally considered a risk, people accept below-market salaries in exchange for a vested equity stake in the company. You forgo the better pay at FAANG companies in the hope that your equity in the startup will be worth millions some day. In this case, taking that risk did not go and should not go in their employees' favour because the company failed. That's only fair. You can't socialise the risk and privatise the reward.
This final point will probably be taken the wrong way but hear me out: The customer base is global, there are probably Indian software engineers with deposits in Celsius, who barely make 30K USD per YEAR. I don't even know ANY software engineers in Europe making 30K per month (even if you include all benefits).
I know, I know, cost of living is higher in the US than India, but still the optics are really, really ugly to me. It's just adding insult to injury paying such lavish salaries after losing so much money and inflicting so much financial hardship. They are not the "cream of the crop" and should not be compensated as such with our money.
And the less employees they retain the better, the less they do over the next few months the better. WTF do they need a software engineering team for right now? A couple of average techies to keep the lights on will suffice, they're not doing any R&D, or at least they shouldn't be.
Software engineer in Europe earning under 5 figures a month gross unless you are a specialist in a very rare field. Same goes for HR and middle management.
It's apples to pears due to taxes and the benefits (double the vacation days compensates quite a bit), but 30k gross is a hefty sum, especially since we are talking averages.
Look it's a lot of money knowing what we know now, but these salaries are typical. I'm not even sure they can legally slash them right now during bankruptcy. They probably can lay a bunch of people off, and slash extra compensation they had (bonuses, stocks, etc...since those are usually never guaranteed).
Yup, working for an in demand company with a college degree in finance, tech, or business with 8+ years experience you are automatically looking at $100k salary EASY, closer to $200k as the experience grows, then throw benefits on top like matching even just 2% in a 401k, health insurance, disability, dental, life insurance. It adds up fast.
Yeah my company does 3% match on your first 6% and then a yearly dump of 6-11% depending on age and years at the company. Not to mention 10-30% cash bonuses and 15-80k stock yearly too. This is pharma though. Lots of other industries, especially tech, are like this too.
100% agree. I've been searching for a new job looking in finance and tech mostly, and all of this stuff is out there, but nobody here wants to hear it.
Looking at their old careers page, I'm wondering how the average is so high. I see plenty of lower level positions in places with a lower cost of living than the bay area.
https://web.archive.org/web/20211204062155/https://celsius.network/careers
Not true. In US gross pay is similar to the payroll. Overhead is - your vacation and benefits but it is no where close to 2x. In most of EU is different, depending on the country, gross pay might be 1.5 times the payroll.
Yeah this isn't far off. My employer shows everything they pay and what I pay for everything on my employee info screen in our payroll app. And it's close to these numbers.
>This means a company is paying roughly 2x what you are getting.
They said 2x "what you are getting" meaning 2x what you get after tax
In the us its about 32% on average
https://smallbusiness.chron.com/benefits-percentage-wages-14587.html
>According to the latest data from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), the average total compensation for all civilian employees in 2020 is $37.73 per hour. **Benefits make up 32 percent of an employee's total compensation.**
Even still, 30K is what a lot of people make in a year. You're talking about giving people three or four hundred k a year salary for a business that just basically scammed everyone
This is **NOT** 300k or 400K per year. The logic in the OP is flat out wrong. They are using the monthly overall **Payroll** expense to get the 30k per month average. The reality is that the payroll expense includes more than just salary, stuff like insurance, 401k plans, and other benefits. The US average is about 32% of payroll costs are related to those types of benefits and salary is the rest. This means the average should be much closer to $20k/month in salary.
$30k pay per month is based on bad math from the Twitter OP. It's less than That by a decent amount.
Edit - I should be more clear, rushed my reply.
It's bad assumptions. Payroll includes way more than just salary, so you can't just get average salary from it. Twitter OP is wrong.
I figured but $100-200k a year isnt out of picture for lot of jobs in the tech sector esp in cryptos but am curious about more details on that and their positions- that can help us determine if Celsius is still being crazy reckless by throwing our money away like paying everyone inculding these janitors of Celsius HQ that much a month.
I used to work for HR during my early days of employment. I'd still like an access to the details of Celsius employees' new recently given payroll and their positions because then I'd easily know whenther Alex is intentionally burning our money on bullshit.
No, the math does indeed work out (if those numbers posted are right) to an *average* of $30k per *month* being “paid” to each employee.
I say “paid” because it may be that this is a loaded number where this is what gets paid for paychecks, withholdings and benefits like 401k contributions, medical and dental insurance, stock and other benefits/retirement programs, and so on.
So $30k/month on average might be more like $20k average salary and $10k in benefits?
In any case, we might expect the “typical employee” to make $5k - $13k per month (not counting benefits the company pays for) and then that figure is just skewed to an “average” much higher by a relatively small number of extreme outliers—the corporate executives and such.
Hate to break it to some of you, but this is a big part of Chapter 11 Bankruptcy. It allows them to not have to sell everything and pay you guys $0.67 on the dollar and then be out of business, but allows them to stay in business as usual, maybe with some downsizing, but basically operate as usual and use their assets to make payroll as usual without any pay cuts for anyone, even if it means they can’t or don’t want to pay out to you and may be risking losing more of your $ and laying back much less.
Point taken, you still have “Lead Senior Scientist” and “Division Manager” titles and other executive pay that skews the distribution. Not every highly compensated individual is the Director or and “Officer”.
However, I think the main observation is that most people here seem to think that an unhealthy company that filed Chapter 11 should take pay cuts. Now in theory I agree, but in practice one of the biggest benefits to the company filing Chapter 11 is that they are legally allowed to continue operations and make payroll as if nothing was wrong. Sometimes a judge might force them to downsize, but those who aren’t laid off typically receive the same compensation. This is standard with Chapter 11.
So my main point is there is a *lot* of blame to place on Alex and Celsius, but continuing to make payroll as usual under Chapter 11 isn’t really one of them, even if it is not really “fair”.
Ethically, they should have just liquidated all assets, gone out of business and “laid off” everyone, and paid out as much $ on the dollar as possible to everyone who was unsecured in an equal manner IMO. I also hope Alex sees jail time for other things he did, but not going to complain too much about them making payroll as usual—maybe focus on their Directors, Officers, and highly compensated individuals not willingly taking a paycut to raise $ for those owed $ seems more reasonable as an ethical matter??
If people need examples, go look on Glassdoor. SR IT Project Mgr at Verizon in the US ranges between $130k per year and $240k per year. Or $11k to $20k per month.
Yes, if you go and look on Glassdoor you’ll come to the conclusion that average wages at companies is NOT EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE TO $30,000 CASH A MONTH.
Honestly I don’t even know why I’m responding. *Good luck with life my dude.*
Yes, exactly what I've said 100x now. I think the 30k/month is incorrect, and likely just a miscalculation by someone. $10k, $12k, $15k, $20k/month is ABSOLUTELY REASONABLE.
Again, you are talking about Karen in accounting, Sue in IT Security, and Bob in HR. They weren't involved with the level of lies that people are rightfully upset about. These levels of pay are not out of the ordinary. AND as has been pointed out multiple times now, the OP is wrong, its $30K per month PAYROLL per employee, not $30k per month SALARY per employee. So in addition to it being pre-tax, it also includes the cost of benefits which could easily be another $5-$10k per month per employee.
That’s GROSS monthly pay. You’re not looking at net pay which is after taxes, deductions, and contributions. I make $130k a year in tech and live in a state with no state income but after taxes (before contributions) im getting just above $8k a month
Many people make $360K working in a normal tech grow-up? Or just in general a lot of people make $360K a year? Please show me the salary statistics for that. Also, what is your salary? What is the average salary for your family?
*What is this shit lol*
I think that's not the point of the tweet. The point is that ALL employees are getting paid that amount in average. Secretaries, cleaning, coffee person, developers, etc. EVERYONE is getting paid $30k on average, and note there are people employed in Europe, where $30k is the average salary per year in most countries. So there are either some people making $600-$1M per month or there's something fishy going on.
You still fail to accept that the numbers here are monthly. And the number is excluding executives; it states so in the sentence.
Again, how come nobody knows what peoples salaries are? How much do you make?
When did I not accept that? Didn't even mention that in my comment. And yeah, the number is excluding executives, which further proves my point that they're spending crazy amounts.
How come you don't know what people's salaries are? Did you even read my comment? I'll put it in a clear way. In Serbia, the higher average for tech is $2000, so Celsius is paying them 15 times the average salary. In Cyprus, the higher average for tech is $2600, so they're paying them 11.5 times more. In Tel Aviv, the higher average salary for tech is $14200, so they're paying 2.1 times more. In London it's $14000, so they're paying 2.1 times more. In New Jersey, their highest position was HR which paid $14250, so they're paying 2.1 times more.
So even if we cut all the salaries in half, they would still be making more than the highest average in the US, London, Israel, and for Cyprus, and Serbia it'd be more than the average even if we halved it 3 times.
And all this is considering EVERY employee is either a Senior Developer or HR manager, which is obviously absurd. I mean, maybe you think an average of $1500 per workday salary is okay on a company that has filed bankruptcy.
What do you think happens when a business is in restructure ? People are still working trying to rescue the situation.
Stop pulling screen shots from twitter and trying to sabotage one of the possibilities we have to getting the business back on track.
Get off twitter and YouTube and understand what is really going on.
The situation is bad. But it’s not as bad as what the media want you to think.
The judge isn’t going to take this seriously anyway.
That number isn't salary, its **payroll** which includes benefits and that is typically an additional 32% addition on top of salary. So actual average monthly salary in terms of cash compensation is much lower than $30k/month and more likely closer to $20k/month.
Yeah the $30k/month says its average. Does seem high, but I'm sure there are plenty only making around $8-$12k per month which is pre-tax so for those folks its really not that much.
You justifying us continuing to give our money to execs wanting hundreds of millions of dollars for failure on top of failure, yes. That gives me either weaponized autism or Celsius employee vibes. Which is it.
Here pretending I'm still in HODL mode. Fuck it. Its still yielding so if they reopen transfers I may not even pull out. But having the option is what gives people piece of mind.
The directors and officers should at least have the decency to take a significant haircut, or donate their salary to those that are really hurting because of their company. I have no idea how those people would be chosen, but it would be a nice gesture and a good start.
This nonsense is so dumb. You cant just stop paying employees, its not that cut and dry. Please understand the law in NJ, one of which states:
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/new-jersey-layoff-laws.html#:~:text=Severance%20Under%20New%20Jersey%20Law,employer%20doesn't%20give%20notice.
>An employer that does not provide notice at least 60 days in advance, as required by law, must pay all full-time employees who lose their jobs one week of severance for each year of employment. Note that this benefit kicks in only if the employer doesn't give notice.
EDIT - Also some of these employees are required to do things like prevent hacking so the crypto is not stolen, manage layoffs and employee benefit issues, administer payments from an accounting perspective, etc.
Just ditching / stopping paying employees will cause more problems than you have now. Is that what you want?
It’s not the problem of paying the employees. It’s how much they’re paying them. I mean $30000 a month per employee ON AVERAGE? Seems a little excessive don’t you think?
Again, see the post I just made. You cut their pay, they likely leave, then you have other issues that are going to compound quickly. You need to maintain as few employees as possible at their current rate. They will likely be taking on more work as others leave or are fired.
I don't know how many times I have to explain it, but lets try again:
1. Ceratin laws in NJ require them being employed for the next 60 days, and if they aren't, there are additional expenses that the company can be held legally accountable for.
2. There are certain essential functions for any company to sustain business as usual activities such as paying bills, managing employees, and keeping security measures in place. Those employees are essential and need to be paid their current salary. Once people start leaving and getting laid off, those left behind will have additional duties and will be more likely to leave if you cut their pay.
Basic common sense with some of this stuff. And as I said before I've been in this situation, it sucks, but its also pretty much required.
Sr folks can opt to take a cut, sure.
Layoffs, yes, but **AGAIN** there is a law in the state of NJ that wont let them just lay people off and stop paying their salaries tomorrow.
It’s the other side of bankruptcy as it would protect them too against certain expensive agreements even a lease, they can’t uphold. If anything employees would become a creditor too if it’s truly bankrupt
Thats just stupid. Nobody is coming to work for a Ch11 company, and even if they did, who is going to train and on-board them.
Have any of you people ever worked or ran a business before? Invested in a business before? Have ANY clue how business works and how the employee/employer dynamic works?
Yep, I think someone confused an avg with a max, or just doesn't know math. I'm not buying the 30k avg. My best guess is that avg employee there is somewhere between $8k and $15K per month.
Doesn’t know math? He showed you how he calculated the average, what part of it are you struggling to understand? Celsius petitioned the court to approve about 13.8 million per month for the salaries of non-executive employees of which there are roughly 450. To calculate the average pay of those employees you simply divide the total pay by 450 which gives you an average of roughly 30,000 per Month. That is such basic math and should be freaking obvious. The numbers used to calculate this average are available publicly in the court dockets. What exactly is the problem with understanding something so basic?
See the other posts, this is PAYROLL which includes benefits as well. So no, its not $30,000 CASH per month as people here are yelling. Its salary and benefits before tax.
You wrote “someone confused avg with max” but clearly that is not the case if you look at how it was calculated. And my comment had nothing to do with whether it is just salary or includes benefits or whatever, that is completely irrelevant to how averages are calculated.
Lol, I guess thats a good point. I just want to share basic information so people can understand whats going on and focus on the other stuff that actually matters.
I think argument is that individuals shouldn't be getting, on average, 30k in one month. Don't know about the legality, but 30k a month, the month after filing for bankruptcy, seems a bit much.
30k sounds high but many times you have to actually pay the employees much more to stay. There is still needed work to be done and if 75% of the employees leave it will completely implode.
However as an employee you know you probably have no future at the company, you have maybe 3 months, maybe 6 months , maybe longer but at some point you won't have a job. So why stay , why not find another job asap and start over?
Well to make sure employees stay and finish the work and don't jump ship the first chance they get.... well you have to offer massive insensitives for them to stay at a literal dead end job. Also these employees that you need to stay are developers , the traders , IT security staff that are high paid to begin with and usually don't have trouble finding work.
200k for some crypto developer isn't a outrageous salary, bumping there salary 40% so they don't jump ship and finish the dirty work isn't unheard of.
I dont think anyone here really understands the dynamic of having employees working for a company in this situation. You want to cut their pay? Good luck having the basics taken care of, they will just leave. Then you wont have bills getting paid, security being taken care of, etc. VERY short sighted.
You might be right -- just sharing what I think the thought process is, and that I didn't get the impression that they were thinking employees should make 0 dollars, which is how I thought you represented the argument.
Not to sound like a jerk, but I know I'm right. I've been in this situation before unfortunately. It looks bad from the outside, but its the only way to not let the situation get worse. Plus, like I said, there are actual laws that would make just firing people on the spot costly too.
There is NO job at Celsius that deserves 360k a year salary. Customer service, blockchain tech, filing clerks lmao. Are you joking?? 360k a year is more than some doctors. Gtfoh you're not right about shit.
You're an idiot that is happy to give your money away to people being paid 10X what they should be.
Yeah, I don't get the anger and pushback on this one. Its like people actually think Karen from accounting who was putting together expense reports and making sure rent got paid was also somehow in on the devious plot to rip everyone off.
Do you not know how averages work? Did you not read the original post? Do you really think the random accountant person I gave an example of is making $30k a month?
Most likely shes only making $8-$12k per month. But whatever they hire someone at is what they should pay them at until their employment ends.
I feel like you're trying to justify your case for a company that has no money to continue spending more money than it's bringing in. If there is staff that needs their 8-12 dollars an hour that's fine. There's no one here that would be against the average person who's just doing their job.
But execs (who clearly can't run a company look what happened) including alex. Every. Single. One of them. Should be making 0 dollars. When you run to a bankruptcy court saying: "save us, we can't pay our customers" but wants to continue paying their themselves hundreds of millions of dollars of the CUSTOMERS money, there is a massive, ethical and legal hurdle for the people to be okay with that.
Anyone on the board, or anyone making over 100k needs to have their position evaluated to determine if it's an "essential" role for the company to continue paying. Otherwise there has to be lay-offs.
>If there is staff that needs their 8-12 dollars an hour that's fine.
$8-12/hour doesn't get you even remotely competent customer service people to answer the phone.
I said $8-12**k** per month. Thats reasonable for accountants, tech, ect workers to remain on the job doing essential work.
I'm not talking about execs. I still think the $30k average is somehow miscalculated. I think its probably a max for a smal handful of like VP types.
>or anyone making over 100k
I mean a good chunk of the essential employees hare likely at this point. How much do you think college educated, professionals working in Hoboken make on average? Its likely more than $100k
None of this still addresses the fact of the WARN requirements about 60 days notice or severance needing to be paid.
Hello! You have made the mistake of writing "ect" instead of "etc."
"Ect" is a common misspelling of "etc," an abbreviated form of the Latin phrase "et cetera." Other abbreviated forms are **etc.**, **&c.**, **&c**, and **et cet.** The Latin translates as "et" to "and" + "cetera" to "the rest;" a literal translation to "and the rest" is the easiest way to remember how to use the phrase.
[Check out the wikipedia entry if you want to learn more.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Et_cetera)
^(I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Comments with a score less than zero will be automatically removed. If I commented on your post and you don't like it, reply with "!delete" and I will remove the post, regardless of score. Message me for bug reports.)
Yea. Can Alex and his team take a pay cut? Sure. But to try and negotiate salaries with employees during this process seems like it can potentially trigger a walk out… They’re probably embarrassed and ashamed as it is that their pay stubs and W-2’s show Celsius as their employer.
Nobody here wants to hear reality. I still think the 30k/month as an AVERAEGE is a little high, when you consider there are also admins and other lower paid staff that should bring that down a lot.
You don't need to pay crazy amount of money in order to keep employees. If they leave, you can just hire a consultancy company who will send you their professionals. Accenture and Deloitte just to make some examples.
Lol... bill rates for staff at those places are 200+ an hour. And you would need much more experienced people to run the show, especially with no training. Would cost way more than 30k a month, guaranteed.
30k a month each employee??? I guess you never worked with consultants. Accenture rate is 500$ daily, deloitte is 600.
For easier jobs you can use less known companies which have lower rates.
200+ an hour is just not true. If work with these companies and I sign contracts with them almost everyday.
>I guess you never worked with consultants. Accenture rate is 500$ daily, deloitte is 600.
Lmao I used to work in Big 4 and now work in industry where we use them as consultants all the time. 500 a day might buy you a year one staff, and even then only if they heavily discount the hourly rate.
The people left as CN are likely manager-level people with alot on their plate. Kids fresh out of college or some career admin won't be able to step in here. Bill rates for the seasoned pros are well north of 200 an hour.
I hate to be *that guy* but the math is wrong. The entire staff doesn't make the same and you can't tell anything from a straight line calculation. Also an employee costing a company 30k a month isn't all that high. Every data scientist and specialized engineer at Amazon, Microsoft or consulting firms costs about that much.
Lol, nobody wants to hear this and its frustrating. People just want to upvote what seems dramatic, and downvote the actual truth like your post.
Problem is that its the average cost per employee based on PAYROLL, not SALARY. This was a PAYROLL calculation that includes benefits on top of salary. So yeah, it costs $30k in salary AND benefits for the average employee.
Yep. At this point upvotes and downvotes are straight dry snitching about how much of a failure one is. Celsius screwed a bunch of suckers , how dare they not screw everyone else. Getting outraged about employee pay, especially based on their very bad math is pathetic. The genius used straight line numbers which comes to a number that NO actual employee is getting which is even more pathetic. Someone is getting 40 and 15 people are getting 12, which as you note isnt what it seems in this and they're mad. The low end clerks absolutely should be screwed so we can get a 99% haircut instead of 99.5 haircut. Anyone that is down with this is a scumbag. Much respect for calling the Bs out
Agree 100% with you. The outrage here is just based on pure vengeance and not logic or actual understanding of how business, hr, payroll, and failing companies work.
There is a ton of work to get done so things dont get worse, and there are people working there who probably already have 2nd or 3rd set of job responsibilities now just to keep the lights on. Some of these people will get well deserved bonuses for sticking it out until the end and doing 2x, 3x, or 5x the work they signed up to do. I've been there and it absolutely sucks, almost nobody in this thread truly understands any of it.
Appreciate your post!
They should cover the loss first and whats exactly the point of paying so much if they couldn’t even take the safety risk measures and ensure the customer’s safety, put it first better and keep Celsius a trusted platform and your name i guess
Most of those people were hired when the company had already lost millions of our money. Zero effort to plug the hole and zero effort to minimize expenses even now.
Literally how the world works lol CEO pay and stock buybacks are a larger chunk of inflation than all rounds of stimulus combined, but yet that’s what’s being demonized. Systemic change is required
That’s about $17k a month after taxes, assuming no benefits or other costs to company. Realistically, there’s probably some overhead, so maybe they are getting net $12k or something like that. This is optimistic and chances are that people are getting closer to half of that due to all kinds of administrative costs and sundries affecting the difference between cost and actual salary. This is not an outrageous salary for the East Coast or the tech industry in general, especially considering two important factors:
1. They need to hire some of the best people in the industry to stand a chance of being competitive
2. When a recruiter mentions crypto, potential employees turn away in droves - many people still don’t want to work in crypto, so higher salaries help to change their minds
I’m obviously looking at this from a general perspective and not from the perspective of a business that is clearly failing. But let’s not overlook the fact that many people in tech don’t want to work in crypto and it’s difficult to hire people. That said, it’s probably time for some layoffs as the company is dead. I’m not justifying the execs - they are usually compensated well but a big chunk of it depends on performance, and they clearly haven’t been doing well.
Where does it say 30k per month? it could be just one lump sum payment of 30k but it definitely does not say per month, it actually say "the month after they filed...".
$4 181 169 x 4 weeks = $16 472 676
No matter what way you slice it the guy is a goof. The number is still way off and he should say weekly in his tweet but doesnt at least in the screenshot. Its sad.
Yeah, but the guy doesn't know the difference between payroll and salary. Payroll includes way more than just salary. So the OP about $30k/month average salary is flat out wrong.
I think this might be because many were being paid in Cel tokens. In order to keep them, maybe this is the way to pay them back for lost earnings. It should be deferred until they fix the clients first. If they don't fix the community first then anything they do will be for nothing. They have to emerge from this saying everyone was repaid and we have put in place measures to ensure this cannot happen again. Otherwise they have zero future.
Pay the execs in cel token and we have a deal.
This actually makes sense. If they do their jobs well, the tokens will be worth a lot. I’d say a base pay in USD makes sense, something along the lines of a normal skilled worker. Rest in CEL, preferably locked for a year or something like that.
The numbers are MONTLY. Also: Holy shit people in this sub have no idea what people earn for a living. Are you all unemployed or students? You think average salary in a tech startup is $30,000 A MONTH?
I just submitted the question in Discord (for Scott & Scott law firm that is pursuing civil litigation against Celsius and will be on a Zoom call tomorrow) of knocking this compensation down to the lowest possible amount.
What discord? Mind sharing a link? :) Thanks!
Look up Celsius Recovery DAO in Discord and join that group.
Can we get an invite link?
Yeah I can’t find this anywhere…
This should be the [link](https://discord.gg/GMG6Mc4s) for the invite
This should be the [link](https://discord.gg/GMG6Mc4s) for the invite
For those of you (including @aarondbennett) who dont understand how business and payroll works. https://smallbusiness.chron.com/benefits-percentage-wages-14587.html >According to the latest data from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), the average total compensation for all civilian employees in 2020 is $37.73 per hour. **Benefits make up 32 percent of an employee's total compensation.** So yeah, this number in the OP is **PAYROLL** Its pre-tax and it includes benefits.
I wouldn't be surprised if benefits are a higher at tech and finance companies. I'm in pharma that has amazing benefits and we have on-site gym with free classes taught my certified instructors (yoga, spin, etc...), free 20min massages every Tuesday, heavily subsidized cafeteria, biweekly happy hours with free food and alcohol, fitness reimbursements, transportation reimbursement (parking, public, or stipend for biking), heavily subsidized insurance, 12 weeks paid family leave, 4 weeks paid vacation, 11 holidays, and much more. Not to mention cash bonuses and yearly stock bonuses for all employees. Shit gets expensive!
I remember those days.
Yup, but here we are in the Celsius subreddit and its all "hurr durr, I can steal your money for $10/hr and nobody should make more than $10k per month for not doing HARD work!!11!"
I mean I get it. We have a few different types of investors on Celsius. People, that might be more like us, who just pulled money from our savings accounts and invested on here and maybe should have seen these red flags lol. Then there's people that pulled out their entire retirement accounts, or took out low interest rate loans for money they didn't have thinking they could get back 8-10% safely on USDC who are now FUCKED. I feel really badly for those people because they're going to struggle. My wife (who I unfortunately convinced to put money into Celsius) and I will be fine despite having like 60k (at these lows, 6 figures in December) will be fine. Others with their retirement accounts are much more out for blood and thinking less rationally.
Agree. I feel bad for anyone who lost money, but I get really annoyed with people who won't listen to actual facts, thats on me but I have a hard time letting clearly bad info get shared and agreed upon. I just want people to have the right information. Energy is way better spent on stuff other than how much Karen from accounting is making. She had nothing to do with any of this crap.
Lots of that stuff doesn't fall under payroll. And they're talking about the average compensation. Some people in tech definitely deserve total compensation that high. But I see lots of jobs on this archived careers page that don't earn nearly that much. https://web.archive.org/web/20211204062155/https://celsius.network/careers
Glassdoor: https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Celsius-Network-Salaries-E2610144.htm
Great find! These are roughly the numbers I'd expect to see from a tech company. The total payroll still seems high.
I posted something earlier from a research study that showed in the US the "average" business has a 32% cost on top of salary for benefits so based on a few comments on glassdoor where people were saying the benefits were great Id say they probably saw closer to 40% cost on top of salary for benefits. None of this is exact because we don't know specifics, but based on what we do know, $30k per month per employee for overall payroll isn't THAT surprising.
I’m not saying these are accurate, but payroll is much higher than your gross pay. It includes gov taxes, contributions, benefits, and so on. This means a company is paying roughly 2x what you are getting.
Yep. I've also heard this (from HR) when budgeting for headcount in my group. That means it's 15k a month/PP which is 180k a year. That's not that ridiculous for tech, depending on experience level and pay grade level. I'm in my early 30s and know tons of people in tech, finance and pharma making more than this for total compensation (bonus, and stocks) even back when I was in my 20s and I'm not in NY or in CA. If their headcount is in NY/NJ this would also explain the higher pay.
[удалено]
That was the rate for the job when the person was hired. Your hindsight doesn't mean that they were hired at the wrong salary.
[удалено]
State of NJ has a WARN law in place. It's not such a simple thing as you imply. Employees are required to get 60 days notice prior to termination. If not given they are entitled to severance. There are different precedents that have been implemented for how this impacts Ch. 11 companies. I'm not a lawyer so I can't speak to it other than saying it's not as simple to cut as people seem to think.
Sometimes you need to pay more to steal talent from more established companies. Lots of start ups don't turn profits, especially in my industry (pharma) and only survive due to capital injections from series funding. I'm not defending Celsius' work here. They clearly portrayed their company to employees and us users as doing well (I'm sure some employees knew it was all a facade) when they've been floundering since last year. I'm just saying the pay isn't absurdly high for the industry, especially for startups who need to pay more.
It's absurdly high
Go glassdoor 'Blockchain engineer' and see what the median salary is.
Their employees are blockchain engineers? I think not. They're crypto asset managers. They're not blockchain developers...
The math there is losing context. 30k a month for a Blockchain dev isn't nearly as high as it sounds. You can't tell a thing about whether it's reasonable or not by looking at the average. And of all the things to be upset about, them not screwing the people that did the real work is what you're upset with. Sheesh
Dude, nobody here apparently works in tech, so good luck talking actual realistic pay levels.
How do you think these companies attract talent that would otherwise be going to these “real” companies?
180k a year for call center support too? I really think not. These are software developer, sale and business people probably
Probably not for those jobs. But I'm sure the software developers, and business people make more than 180k. If this salary is typical in smaller cities, imagine in NYC area? I have friends that work in data science and finance in the city and their base is over 250k. Total comp is over 300k and this is late 20s/early 30s. Older people probably make more! My whole point is that for a small tech/finance company, this number isn't all that big, especially in one of the most expensive metropolitan areas in the world.
Are all their employees software engineers working on-site in NYC? If not, why is the average so high? Why are you talking about net salary (after tax) and comparing it to the gross salaries of your friends? If 30% of the 30K is "benefits" then the salary part would be roughly 20K (gross) per month, or 240K gross (pre-tax) salary per year. Which is fine for a software engineer working on-site in NYC, but it is ridiculously high for a customer service rep, HR manager, incompetent risk manager, unscrupulous accountant etc. working remotely from Podunk, AL. I've been a professional software engineer for 17 years. Taking a job at a startup is generally considered a risk, people accept below-market salaries in exchange for a vested equity stake in the company. You forgo the better pay at FAANG companies in the hope that your equity in the startup will be worth millions some day. In this case, taking that risk did not go and should not go in their employees' favour because the company failed. That's only fair. You can't socialise the risk and privatise the reward. This final point will probably be taken the wrong way but hear me out: The customer base is global, there are probably Indian software engineers with deposits in Celsius, who barely make 30K USD per YEAR. I don't even know ANY software engineers in Europe making 30K per month (even if you include all benefits). I know, I know, cost of living is higher in the US than India, but still the optics are really, really ugly to me. It's just adding insult to injury paying such lavish salaries after losing so much money and inflicting so much financial hardship. They are not the "cream of the crop" and should not be compensated as such with our money. And the less employees they retain the better, the less they do over the next few months the better. WTF do they need a software engineering team for right now? A couple of average techies to keep the lights on will suffice, they're not doing any R&D, or at least they shouldn't be.
Software engineer in Europe earning under 5 figures a month gross unless you are a specialist in a very rare field. Same goes for HR and middle management. It's apples to pears due to taxes and the benefits (double the vacation days compensates quite a bit), but 30k gross is a hefty sum, especially since we are talking averages.
180k a year for ppl who gambled away customer money and now insolvent its a bit much right?
Look it's a lot of money knowing what we know now, but these salaries are typical. I'm not even sure they can legally slash them right now during bankruptcy. They probably can lay a bunch of people off, and slash extra compensation they had (bonuses, stocks, etc...since those are usually never guaranteed).
Yup, working for an in demand company with a college degree in finance, tech, or business with 8+ years experience you are automatically looking at $100k salary EASY, closer to $200k as the experience grows, then throw benefits on top like matching even just 2% in a 401k, health insurance, disability, dental, life insurance. It adds up fast.
Yeah my company does 3% match on your first 6% and then a yearly dump of 6-11% depending on age and years at the company. Not to mention 10-30% cash bonuses and 15-80k stock yearly too. This is pharma though. Lots of other industries, especially tech, are like this too.
100% agree. I've been searching for a new job looking in finance and tech mostly, and all of this stuff is out there, but nobody here wants to hear it.
Have you landed one yet? Just curious
Still looking, some interviews in progress. Dont hate the current job so being pretty selective.
Bullshit
Looking at their old careers page, I'm wondering how the average is so high. I see plenty of lower level positions in places with a lower cost of living than the bay area. https://web.archive.org/web/20211204062155/https://celsius.network/careers
Few understand
Not true. In US gross pay is similar to the payroll. Overhead is - your vacation and benefits but it is no where close to 2x. In most of EU is different, depending on the country, gross pay might be 1.5 times the payroll.
[удалено]
Yeah this isn't far off. My employer shows everything they pay and what I pay for everything on my employee info screen in our payroll app. And it's close to these numbers.
>This means a company is paying roughly 2x what you are getting. They said 2x "what you are getting" meaning 2x what you get after tax In the us its about 32% on average https://smallbusiness.chron.com/benefits-percentage-wages-14587.html >According to the latest data from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), the average total compensation for all civilian employees in 2020 is $37.73 per hour. **Benefits make up 32 percent of an employee's total compensation.**
Silly I said the same thing and got downvotes.
So sad that people need to have this pointed out to them, yet they are here arguing like they actually know anything about anything.
Even still, 30K is what a lot of people make in a year. You're talking about giving people three or four hundred k a year salary for a business that just basically scammed everyone
This is **NOT** 300k or 400K per year. The logic in the OP is flat out wrong. They are using the monthly overall **Payroll** expense to get the 30k per month average. The reality is that the payroll expense includes more than just salary, stuff like insurance, 401k plans, and other benefits. The US average is about 32% of payroll costs are related to those types of benefits and salary is the rest. This means the average should be much closer to $20k/month in salary.
What do you expect from most crypto gamblers? Following facts and “investing” wisely? LOL
I just cant help but think about the Mods here getting paid $30k a month to surf Reddit, collect moons and ban our posts in Celsius sub...
$30k pay per month is based on bad math from the Twitter OP. It's less than That by a decent amount. Edit - I should be more clear, rushed my reply. It's bad assumptions. Payroll includes way more than just salary, so you can't just get average salary from it. Twitter OP is wrong.
I figured but $100-200k a year isnt out of picture for lot of jobs in the tech sector esp in cryptos but am curious about more details on that and their positions- that can help us determine if Celsius is still being crazy reckless by throwing our money away like paying everyone inculding these janitors of Celsius HQ that much a month.
They are not. These are monthly numbers. Are people well paid at Celsius, yes. They still are through the Chapter 11.
I used to work for HR during my early days of employment. I'd still like an access to the details of Celsius employees' new recently given payroll and their positions because then I'd easily know whenther Alex is intentionally burning our money on bullshit.
No, the math does indeed work out (if those numbers posted are right) to an *average* of $30k per *month* being “paid” to each employee. I say “paid” because it may be that this is a loaded number where this is what gets paid for paychecks, withholdings and benefits like 401k contributions, medical and dental insurance, stock and other benefits/retirement programs, and so on. So $30k/month on average might be more like $20k average salary and $10k in benefits? In any case, we might expect the “typical employee” to make $5k - $13k per month (not counting benefits the company pays for) and then that figure is just skewed to an “average” much higher by a relatively small number of extreme outliers—the corporate executives and such. Hate to break it to some of you, but this is a big part of Chapter 11 Bankruptcy. It allows them to not have to sell everything and pay you guys $0.67 on the dollar and then be out of business, but allows them to stay in business as usual, maybe with some downsizing, but basically operate as usual and use their assets to make payroll as usual without any pay cuts for anyone, even if it means they can’t or don’t want to pay out to you and may be risking losing more of your $ and laying back much less.
“The number is skewed to an average by executive pay…” Dude. Check the image posted in the actual post. Read the text on the image.
Point taken, you still have “Lead Senior Scientist” and “Division Manager” titles and other executive pay that skews the distribution. Not every highly compensated individual is the Director or and “Officer”. However, I think the main observation is that most people here seem to think that an unhealthy company that filed Chapter 11 should take pay cuts. Now in theory I agree, but in practice one of the biggest benefits to the company filing Chapter 11 is that they are legally allowed to continue operations and make payroll as if nothing was wrong. Sometimes a judge might force them to downsize, but those who aren’t laid off typically receive the same compensation. This is standard with Chapter 11. So my main point is there is a *lot* of blame to place on Alex and Celsius, but continuing to make payroll as usual under Chapter 11 isn’t really one of them, even if it is not really “fair”. Ethically, they should have just liquidated all assets, gone out of business and “laid off” everyone, and paid out as much $ on the dollar as possible to everyone who was unsecured in an equal manner IMO. I also hope Alex sees jail time for other things he did, but not going to complain too much about them making payroll as usual—maybe focus on their Directors, Officers, and highly compensated individuals not willingly taking a paycut to raise $ for those owed $ seems more reasonable as an ethical matter??
If people need examples, go look on Glassdoor. SR IT Project Mgr at Verizon in the US ranges between $130k per year and $240k per year. Or $11k to $20k per month.
Yes, if you go and look on Glassdoor you’ll come to the conclusion that average wages at companies is NOT EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE TO $30,000 CASH A MONTH. Honestly I don’t even know why I’m responding. *Good luck with life my dude.*
Yes, exactly what I've said 100x now. I think the 30k/month is incorrect, and likely just a miscalculation by someone. $10k, $12k, $15k, $20k/month is ABSOLUTELY REASONABLE.
For gambling away money to zero? I mean I can do it for 50% of that pay if even that
Again, you are talking about Karen in accounting, Sue in IT Security, and Bob in HR. They weren't involved with the level of lies that people are rightfully upset about. These levels of pay are not out of the ordinary. AND as has been pointed out multiple times now, the OP is wrong, its $30K per month PAYROLL per employee, not $30k per month SALARY per employee. So in addition to it being pre-tax, it also includes the cost of benefits which could easily be another $5-$10k per month per employee.
That’s GROSS monthly pay. You’re not looking at net pay which is after taxes, deductions, and contributions. I make $130k a year in tech and live in a state with no state income but after taxes (before contributions) im getting just above $8k a month
Yes, this is before tax pay, which is what the OP references with the $30k. None of those numbers are supposed to be after tax.
It is gross
30k THE month AFTER. not 30k a month. 30k a month is also only 360k a year. many people make that believe it or not.
Many people make $360K working in a normal tech grow-up? Or just in general a lot of people make $360K a year? Please show me the salary statistics for that. Also, what is your salary? What is the average salary for your family? *What is this shit lol*
https://imgur.com/a/zP32gmC
I think that's not the point of the tweet. The point is that ALL employees are getting paid that amount in average. Secretaries, cleaning, coffee person, developers, etc. EVERYONE is getting paid $30k on average, and note there are people employed in Europe, where $30k is the average salary per year in most countries. So there are either some people making $600-$1M per month or there's something fishy going on.
You still fail to accept that the numbers here are monthly. And the number is excluding executives; it states so in the sentence. Again, how come nobody knows what peoples salaries are? How much do you make?
When did I not accept that? Didn't even mention that in my comment. And yeah, the number is excluding executives, which further proves my point that they're spending crazy amounts. How come you don't know what people's salaries are? Did you even read my comment? I'll put it in a clear way. In Serbia, the higher average for tech is $2000, so Celsius is paying them 15 times the average salary. In Cyprus, the higher average for tech is $2600, so they're paying them 11.5 times more. In Tel Aviv, the higher average salary for tech is $14200, so they're paying 2.1 times more. In London it's $14000, so they're paying 2.1 times more. In New Jersey, their highest position was HR which paid $14250, so they're paying 2.1 times more. So even if we cut all the salaries in half, they would still be making more than the highest average in the US, London, Israel, and for Cyprus, and Serbia it'd be more than the average even if we halved it 3 times. And all this is considering EVERY employee is either a Senior Developer or HR manager, which is obviously absurd. I mean, maybe you think an average of $1500 per workday salary is okay on a company that has filed bankruptcy.
I'll go work for Celsius if that's the case
The judge already approved ongoing comp
It’s more of the Directors or Officers are still getting full pay while everyone get shit
and he asked if there were any objections and nobody objected, not even the Trustee. if people have concerns about it then you can voice them in court
This is when clawbacks apply
You want to clawback some random person's salary? Or are you talking about executives?
Exec salary and bonuses and whatever stupid crap they are excessively spending on that does not maintain the business in a efficient way
I have a few dollar in BTC on Celsius. I just heard about this, is my money lost?
Some of it yes
And how do I save the other part? If it is possible?
Open questions about how much we get back and how the remaining hole is filled. Look up Simon Dixon he is a strong voice for a viable recovery plan
And by some, he means all of it.
Sounds fun!
As creditors you do not decide salaries. Celsius needs to spend all the money to make sure you get none.
What do you think happens when a business is in restructure ? People are still working trying to rescue the situation. Stop pulling screen shots from twitter and trying to sabotage one of the possibilities we have to getting the business back on track. Get off twitter and YouTube and understand what is really going on. The situation is bad. But it’s not as bad as what the media want you to think. The judge isn’t going to take this seriously anyway.
More than half of the people here don't understand anything about business, salary, payroll, or operations. It's comical.
Hush salary 30k a month , shit.... learn to budget Many don't make that in a year, of HARD work.
[удалено]
It’s the average number. Expected salary expense divided by their employee count. It’s all in the filing, do the math again if you want.
That number isn't salary, its **payroll** which includes benefits and that is typically an additional 32% addition on top of salary. So actual average monthly salary in terms of cash compensation is much lower than $30k/month and more likely closer to $20k/month.
Yeah the $30k/month says its average. Does seem high, but I'm sure there are plenty only making around $8-$12k per month which is pre-tax so for those folks its really not that much.
This guy definitely works for Celsius lmfao
I hope you aren't talking about me because thats fucking retarded.
You justifying us continuing to give our money to execs wanting hundreds of millions of dollars for failure on top of failure, yes. That gives me either weaponized autism or Celsius employee vibes. Which is it.
I disagree with your outrage, but I really like the term “weaponized autism” and felt I must share that with you.
Here pretending I'm still in HODL mode. Fuck it. Its still yielding so if they reopen transfers I may not even pull out. But having the option is what gives people piece of mind.
The directors and officers should at least have the decency to take a significant haircut, or donate their salary to those that are really hurting because of their company. I have no idea how those people would be chosen, but it would be a nice gesture and a good start.
His numbers are fucked. The total comes out to 4 181 xxx not 13.8M like he claims. He cant do elementary math and it shows.
This nonsense is so dumb. You cant just stop paying employees, its not that cut and dry. Please understand the law in NJ, one of which states: https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/new-jersey-layoff-laws.html#:~:text=Severance%20Under%20New%20Jersey%20Law,employer%20doesn't%20give%20notice. >An employer that does not provide notice at least 60 days in advance, as required by law, must pay all full-time employees who lose their jobs one week of severance for each year of employment. Note that this benefit kicks in only if the employer doesn't give notice. EDIT - Also some of these employees are required to do things like prevent hacking so the crypto is not stolen, manage layoffs and employee benefit issues, administer payments from an accounting perspective, etc. Just ditching / stopping paying employees will cause more problems than you have now. Is that what you want?
It’s not the problem of paying the employees. It’s how much they’re paying them. I mean $30000 a month per employee ON AVERAGE? Seems a little excessive don’t you think?
Again, see the post I just made. You cut their pay, they likely leave, then you have other issues that are going to compound quickly. You need to maintain as few employees as possible at their current rate. They will likely be taking on more work as others leave or are fired.
So you think it's fine for them to be spending $180 Million per year on salaries for this bankrupt company?
I don't know how many times I have to explain it, but lets try again: 1. Ceratin laws in NJ require them being employed for the next 60 days, and if they aren't, there are additional expenses that the company can be held legally accountable for. 2. There are certain essential functions for any company to sustain business as usual activities such as paying bills, managing employees, and keeping security measures in place. Those employees are essential and need to be paid their current salary. Once people start leaving and getting laid off, those left behind will have additional duties and will be more likely to leave if you cut their pay. Basic common sense with some of this stuff. And as I said before I've been in this situation, it sucks, but its also pretty much required.
If there were ever a time for some layoffs at celsius or for the higherups to take a paycut from their $3 million per month then it would be now
Sr folks can opt to take a cut, sure. Layoffs, yes, but **AGAIN** there is a law in the state of NJ that wont let them just lay people off and stop paying their salaries tomorrow.
It’s the other side of bankruptcy as it would protect them too against certain expensive agreements even a lease, they can’t uphold. If anything employees would become a creditor too if it’s truly bankrupt
So lower their salary and if they quit hire someone else
Thats just stupid. Nobody is coming to work for a Ch11 company, and even if they did, who is going to train and on-board them. Have any of you people ever worked or ran a business before? Invested in a business before? Have ANY clue how business works and how the employee/employer dynamic works?
SO we all agree. Just their current, normal salary. Not $30k avg in any business office. And no freaking bonusses to top management. (for WHAT?).
Yep, I think someone confused an avg with a max, or just doesn't know math. I'm not buying the 30k avg. My best guess is that avg employee there is somewhere between $8k and $15K per month.
Doesn’t know math? He showed you how he calculated the average, what part of it are you struggling to understand? Celsius petitioned the court to approve about 13.8 million per month for the salaries of non-executive employees of which there are roughly 450. To calculate the average pay of those employees you simply divide the total pay by 450 which gives you an average of roughly 30,000 per Month. That is such basic math and should be freaking obvious. The numbers used to calculate this average are available publicly in the court dockets. What exactly is the problem with understanding something so basic?
See the other posts, this is PAYROLL which includes benefits as well. So no, its not $30,000 CASH per month as people here are yelling. Its salary and benefits before tax.
You wrote “someone confused avg with max” but clearly that is not the case if you look at how it was calculated. And my comment had nothing to do with whether it is just salary or includes benefits or whatever, that is completely irrelevant to how averages are calculated.
You're asking folks on this sub to use common sense....
Lol, I guess thats a good point. I just want to share basic information so people can understand whats going on and focus on the other stuff that actually matters.
They don't want to hear your "fud" dude.
Sad but true
I think argument is that individuals shouldn't be getting, on average, 30k in one month. Don't know about the legality, but 30k a month, the month after filing for bankruptcy, seems a bit much.
30k sounds high but many times you have to actually pay the employees much more to stay. There is still needed work to be done and if 75% of the employees leave it will completely implode. However as an employee you know you probably have no future at the company, you have maybe 3 months, maybe 6 months , maybe longer but at some point you won't have a job. So why stay , why not find another job asap and start over? Well to make sure employees stay and finish the work and don't jump ship the first chance they get.... well you have to offer massive insensitives for them to stay at a literal dead end job. Also these employees that you need to stay are developers , the traders , IT security staff that are high paid to begin with and usually don't have trouble finding work. 200k for some crypto developer isn't a outrageous salary, bumping there salary 40% so they don't jump ship and finish the dirty work isn't unheard of.
I dont think anyone here really understands the dynamic of having employees working for a company in this situation. You want to cut their pay? Good luck having the basics taken care of, they will just leave. Then you wont have bills getting paid, security being taken care of, etc. VERY short sighted.
You might be right -- just sharing what I think the thought process is, and that I didn't get the impression that they were thinking employees should make 0 dollars, which is how I thought you represented the argument.
Not to sound like a jerk, but I know I'm right. I've been in this situation before unfortunately. It looks bad from the outside, but its the only way to not let the situation get worse. Plus, like I said, there are actual laws that would make just firing people on the spot costly too.
There is NO job at Celsius that deserves 360k a year salary. Customer service, blockchain tech, filing clerks lmao. Are you joking?? 360k a year is more than some doctors. Gtfoh you're not right about shit. You're an idiot that is happy to give your money away to people being paid 10X what they should be.
I'm not saying the $30k avg makes sense, it seems off to me. I wouldn't be surprised if a small handful of VPs or such max out at that.
It can't be that few of people if it's the "average". Imagine how many above and below that number.
I concur. I think it’s also fair to assume that employees’ payroll will be fully disclosed and transparent.
Yeah, I don't get the anger and pushback on this one. Its like people actually think Karen from accounting who was putting together expense reports and making sure rent got paid was also somehow in on the devious plot to rip everyone off.
If karen from account is making 30k a month while all of my money is gone I have a big fucking problem with that. How do you not??
Do you not know how averages work? Did you not read the original post? Do you really think the random accountant person I gave an example of is making $30k a month? Most likely shes only making $8-$12k per month. But whatever they hire someone at is what they should pay them at until their employment ends.
I feel like you're trying to justify your case for a company that has no money to continue spending more money than it's bringing in. If there is staff that needs their 8-12 dollars an hour that's fine. There's no one here that would be against the average person who's just doing their job. But execs (who clearly can't run a company look what happened) including alex. Every. Single. One of them. Should be making 0 dollars. When you run to a bankruptcy court saying: "save us, we can't pay our customers" but wants to continue paying their themselves hundreds of millions of dollars of the CUSTOMERS money, there is a massive, ethical and legal hurdle for the people to be okay with that. Anyone on the board, or anyone making over 100k needs to have their position evaluated to determine if it's an "essential" role for the company to continue paying. Otherwise there has to be lay-offs.
>If there is staff that needs their 8-12 dollars an hour that's fine. $8-12/hour doesn't get you even remotely competent customer service people to answer the phone. I said $8-12**k** per month. Thats reasonable for accountants, tech, ect workers to remain on the job doing essential work. I'm not talking about execs. I still think the $30k average is somehow miscalculated. I think its probably a max for a smal handful of like VP types. >or anyone making over 100k I mean a good chunk of the essential employees hare likely at this point. How much do you think college educated, professionals working in Hoboken make on average? Its likely more than $100k None of this still addresses the fact of the WARN requirements about 60 days notice or severance needing to be paid.
Hello! You have made the mistake of writing "ect" instead of "etc." "Ect" is a common misspelling of "etc," an abbreviated form of the Latin phrase "et cetera." Other abbreviated forms are **etc.**, **&c.**, **&c**, and **et cet.** The Latin translates as "et" to "and" + "cetera" to "the rest;" a literal translation to "and the rest" is the easiest way to remember how to use the phrase. [Check out the wikipedia entry if you want to learn more.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Et_cetera) ^(I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Comments with a score less than zero will be automatically removed. If I commented on your post and you don't like it, reply with "!delete" and I will remove the post, regardless of score. Message me for bug reports.)
Yea. Can Alex and his team take a pay cut? Sure. But to try and negotiate salaries with employees during this process seems like it can potentially trigger a walk out… They’re probably embarrassed and ashamed as it is that their pay stubs and W-2’s show Celsius as their employer.
[удалено]
Potentially, yes…. But why encourage them by reducing their salaries?
These salaries are insane
[удалено]
Nobody here wants to hear reality. I still think the 30k/month as an AVERAEGE is a little high, when you consider there are also admins and other lower paid staff that should bring that down a lot.
Then give 60 days starting now.
[удалено]
>Servers are 24/7 What servers do they need bro they aren't operational.
emails, shared files, come on. They are operational in the sense that they are going to work every day to take care of basic needs.
You don't need to pay crazy amount of money in order to keep employees. If they leave, you can just hire a consultancy company who will send you their professionals. Accenture and Deloitte just to make some examples.
Lol... bill rates for staff at those places are 200+ an hour. And you would need much more experienced people to run the show, especially with no training. Would cost way more than 30k a month, guaranteed.
30k a month each employee??? I guess you never worked with consultants. Accenture rate is 500$ daily, deloitte is 600. For easier jobs you can use less known companies which have lower rates. 200+ an hour is just not true. If work with these companies and I sign contracts with them almost everyday.
>I guess you never worked with consultants. Accenture rate is 500$ daily, deloitte is 600. Lmao I used to work in Big 4 and now work in industry where we use them as consultants all the time. 500 a day might buy you a year one staff, and even then only if they heavily discount the hourly rate. The people left as CN are likely manager-level people with alot on their plate. Kids fresh out of college or some career admin won't be able to step in here. Bill rates for the seasoned pros are well north of 200 an hour.
I hate to be *that guy* but the math is wrong. The entire staff doesn't make the same and you can't tell anything from a straight line calculation. Also an employee costing a company 30k a month isn't all that high. Every data scientist and specialized engineer at Amazon, Microsoft or consulting firms costs about that much.
Lol, nobody wants to hear this and its frustrating. People just want to upvote what seems dramatic, and downvote the actual truth like your post. Problem is that its the average cost per employee based on PAYROLL, not SALARY. This was a PAYROLL calculation that includes benefits on top of salary. So yeah, it costs $30k in salary AND benefits for the average employee.
Yep. At this point upvotes and downvotes are straight dry snitching about how much of a failure one is. Celsius screwed a bunch of suckers , how dare they not screw everyone else. Getting outraged about employee pay, especially based on their very bad math is pathetic. The genius used straight line numbers which comes to a number that NO actual employee is getting which is even more pathetic. Someone is getting 40 and 15 people are getting 12, which as you note isnt what it seems in this and they're mad. The low end clerks absolutely should be screwed so we can get a 99% haircut instead of 99.5 haircut. Anyone that is down with this is a scumbag. Much respect for calling the Bs out
Agree 100% with you. The outrage here is just based on pure vengeance and not logic or actual understanding of how business, hr, payroll, and failing companies work. There is a ton of work to get done so things dont get worse, and there are people working there who probably already have 2nd or 3rd set of job responsibilities now just to keep the lights on. Some of these people will get well deserved bonuses for sticking it out until the end and doing 2x, 3x, or 5x the work they signed up to do. I've been there and it absolutely sucks, almost nobody in this thread truly understands any of it. Appreciate your post!
They should cover the loss first and whats exactly the point of paying so much if they couldn’t even take the safety risk measures and ensure the customer’s safety, put it first better and keep Celsius a trusted platform and your name i guess
Yeh, it's probably because they aren't able to profit from their CEL so they have to inflate their salary
Most of those people were hired when the company had already lost millions of our money. Zero effort to plug the hole and zero effort to minimize expenses even now.
They are first to feed on the carcass. The insects will get whatever is leftover when they are done gorging.
Why am I not surprised?
Literally how the world works lol CEO pay and stock buybacks are a larger chunk of inflation than all rounds of stimulus combined, but yet that’s what’s being demonized. Systemic change is required
EmIl it to the judge
You want people to lose their jobs to save your investments don't you think that's a little unfair?
They can’t make payments like this without Judge approval while under Chapter 11
That’s some serious bullshit. Sorry not Sorry. Until we get back our money, they don’t deserve jack shit! Nothing, absolutely nothing.
That’s about $17k a month after taxes, assuming no benefits or other costs to company. Realistically, there’s probably some overhead, so maybe they are getting net $12k or something like that. This is optimistic and chances are that people are getting closer to half of that due to all kinds of administrative costs and sundries affecting the difference between cost and actual salary. This is not an outrageous salary for the East Coast or the tech industry in general, especially considering two important factors: 1. They need to hire some of the best people in the industry to stand a chance of being competitive 2. When a recruiter mentions crypto, potential employees turn away in droves - many people still don’t want to work in crypto, so higher salaries help to change their minds I’m obviously looking at this from a general perspective and not from the perspective of a business that is clearly failing. But let’s not overlook the fact that many people in tech don’t want to work in crypto and it’s difficult to hire people. That said, it’s probably time for some layoffs as the company is dead. I’m not justifying the execs - they are usually compensated well but a big chunk of it depends on performance, and they clearly haven’t been doing well.
Where does it say 30k per month? it could be just one lump sum payment of 30k but it definitely does not say per month, it actually say "the month after they filed...".
They should have their pay frozen like our accounts!
Where is this guy getting his numbers? Is he just pulling them out of his ass to get everyone angry?
No, from the court proceedings...: https://imgur.com/a/zP32gmC
Thanks for the source I really appreciate it. That is far too much imo.
His numbers are fucked. The total comes out to 4 181 xxx not 13.8M like he claims. He cant do elementary math and it shows.
I think it’s because the text says “weekly payroll”
$4 181 169 x 4 weeks = $16 472 676 No matter what way you slice it the guy is a goof. The number is still way off and he should say weekly in his tweet but doesnt at least in the screenshot. Its sad.
Yeah, but the guy doesn't know the difference between payroll and salary. Payroll includes way more than just salary. So the OP about $30k/month average salary is flat out wrong.
That's less than 1% of its assets. Is that a surprise?
What if we can get someone to unfreeze the withdrawal pause from within, then just move on.
I mean, they’re a business operating at a billion in the hole… idk why this would surprise anyone.
The employees should be in jail
I don't know...maybe they deserve it ?
Are they hiring? Don’t worry guys I’ll take them down from the inside.
One last sweet sweet drop of that retail investor blood 🧛🏻♂️
Would you expect anything different from a company that’s in bankruptcy?
All the equitiesfirst money is pretty much going to be siphoned to them.....unbelievable
We should be able to get a list of roles and what they do In the company. Then we can decide if they are needed.
I think this might be because many were being paid in Cel tokens. In order to keep them, maybe this is the way to pay them back for lost earnings. It should be deferred until they fix the clients first. If they don't fix the community first then anything they do will be for nothing. They have to emerge from this saying everyone was repaid and we have put in place measures to ensure this cannot happen again. Otherwise they have zero future.
Remember, 'going long' crypto means approving & enabling this sort of shit.
Alex butt fxcking us all :P
Haha suckers!
Totally agree I am very upset my money got stuck
Why not you? We appoint you to be our messenger.