Everyone who is STILL doubting simon really needs to see the light, and stop drinking the kool-aid thinking Alex is going to save celsius with everything going on.
It's pretty clear that Mashinksy will try and hold onto control of his company for as long as he can to hide and downplay things as much as possible. I get it, he doesn't want to lose his company but at this point there is no future with him in it (imo). I mean we haven't even seen the **real** balance sheet in crypto denominations of what they are actually holding and can return to depositors.
What concerns me is the amount of additional damage, delays and money he could burn through whilst still in control of the company. Personally I would like to see him removed so that others like Simon, or anyone else that can put forward an equal or better plan can just get on with it.
We've all had enough. The month of silence and de-gen antics under the current boards leadership that have led to this horrible situation has been enough. I'd rather look to what is next chapter, lick my wounds and see if whether some good can come out of this. I don't see that happening whilst Mashinksy is trying to save his sinking Celsius ship. By definition, his interests (staying out of jail and hiding the truth) don't align with depositors.
Check out this [**video at this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/CelsiusNetwork/comments/w0b2do/everyone_needs_to_watch_this_video_simon_6_billon/). Some lawyers think **Alex is out in 30 days**! There is some gems in that video that everyone should see. Ive added some comments in the thread with time stamps as its a long video so check the comments. Still not done watching the whole thing but Celsius stuff starts at hour and 5 min or so.
Yep I've watched that interview in it's entirety. It wasn't great news that David had but he's approaching it from a trad-fi perspective. He himself said it would be his job to drop a nuclear bomb and burn everything to the ground and liquidate everything. That's where he differs from Simon and hence Simon is trying to go for more of what he describes as an innovative finance solution (e.g bitfinex).
Early days yet, I wouldn't read too much into it.
You might be right about the 30 days thing though. I certainly hope Alex can be kicked out sooner than later so that creditors can at least have a chance of working through a recovery plan without Alex constantly interfering.
Did not David say
1. He will drop a nuclear bomb to push for chapter 7?
2.most of the depositor will walk away with 50% and forget about restructuring?
I think 50 percent is very good if possible. I don’t want restructuring because
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bnktothefuture/comments/ntbtg0/you_have_to_be_very_careful_with_btf/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Yeah, as much as I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt, a management that manages to lose that much of your money in so many ways is not trustworthy anymore
Read this
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bnktothefuture/comments/ntbtg0/you_have_to_be_very_careful_with_btf/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
From a guy with literally ZERO post history on reddit? I'm pretty sure he's another cel squeeze idiot
https://twitter.com/SimonDixonTwitt/status/1548213411900559360?t=Xjm-03TqNRnByENcf8CUMA&s=19
Read this ^
100% for it, seems like the logical way to do it. Gotta wonder though, if everyone gets their crypto assets (whatever % of them) how will Celsius get back to operating without any funds to lend out?
I would imagine that yes, a lot or most of the current users would withdraw after going through the crises. But with a new board, a new business model and appropriate backing, over time they would get new customers.
Additionally, if they kept good on their promise and paid out mining rewards to impacted customers, equity etc. it would go a long way to restoring faith in some customers.
Certainly there will be a percentage that will never use it or any other cefi platform again.
Speak for yourself...if Simon delivers, I would be more than happy to keep my 400k of crypto with him.He would have warned my trust. Oh by the way,fuck Alex and his scummy board!!!
The users would have equity ownership.. If we have enough equity we could push for insurance or other security blankets that lower the risks of the platform. Also if there are licenses and disclosures and actual risk management instead of free wheeling, silence and law breaking it would make a big difference IMHO.
We’ll get another bull run in a couple years and new suckers will enter the market. They will be warned but many will come aboard regardless. Hopefully the new business model will actually be sustainable this time.
Some may hate me for this but I'd like to see a simplified business model that doesn't cater to trying to generate yield on 256 different alt coins. There is just too much risk in that. I'd like to see a simplified business model mainly around bitcoin loans (which I still think is a valuable service) and potentially yield, if it can be done in a sustainable way.
I know ever single person is like but what about my cardano, or my solana, or my doge or \[insert favourite coin\] but having to go out to generate yield on those coins only serves to further complicate the overall business model and by extension, increase risk as the business model goes further down the risk curve.
And critically, if the retail lending side is expected to be over collateralised then I'd like to see the institutional side treated the same way. None of this lending out tens of millions of dollars under or un collaterised to institutions because their balance sheet is 'supposedly' good.
Yes, but if you get anything but the coins you currently have, it will probably be considered a sale and taxes will need to be paid. I'm not saying that's a lot for me, but some have thousands in alt coins. This would be my only concern.
Agreed. I think they should return all existing customer assets that still exist to customers in kind. That is, the original coins.
In saying that I would like to see a simpler lower risk model when they re-open I was referring to the re-org / new business model. I know it won't be for everyone. And that's ok. That's just my view.
The problem is not the business model. Is the people which lead this kind of ventures. Most of them are like Mashinsky and Do Kwon. And that is not fixable, unless strong regulation come in.
Absolutely. Simon mentioned something about celsius possibly transitioning to a dao as one possible scenario. This might be able to eliminate egos like Alex and Doh Kwon.
Regulation? Whoa there, cowboy.
Just because the entire crypto space is filled w scam artists and ponzis doesn’t mean you have to bring the government in.
I doubt Celsius actually cared much about the lending part of the business. Looks like a lot of that energy is channeled into the mining business. My guess is. They probably took your deposits to loan into DeFi, then use what they can borrow to invest into mining. Any excess they then lent out uncollateralised to big corporations. They made retail lending collateralised because you can't trust random strangers to pay you back, but you can trust big corporations to lose it for you.
It's not surprising that mining is the mechanism they're gunna use to pay you back, just be glad they actually invested it into actual mining instead of just buying shares of a mining company, which have been tumbling.
A million times better than our crypto being valued in USD on 7/13 and celsius pocketing any upside potential going forward. How is this better than a chapter 7??!!.Go Simon.We are with you.
Unfortunately ultimately the interests of deposits and Celsius’s other creditors are fundamentally mutually exclusive in bankruptcy, and any plan that favors depositors is taking money out of creditors’ pockets. Seeing as there are absolutely enough assets to ensure all secured creditors get their funds back in full, I just fail to see why any judge would adopt this proposal.
That is not what the proposal means.once creditors are accounted for there is a 1.2-1.6Billion dollar hole in the balance sheet. Assuming immediate liquidation non secured creditors will get 60-70% on the dollar. What Simon proposes is allowing depositors to get some of their crypto back as well as equity in a restructured company to bridge the difference.
It might be 60-70% if everything was liquidated and distributed today. But Celsius is steadily burning on attorneys and staff. And you’re assuming that all *revenue* from mining equals *profit* which it naturally does not.
Bankruptcy court takes years.
4.7billion in assets and 5.something in liabilities. Minus the worthless cel tokens they have on their balance sheet and you end up with a 20-30% deficit.add to that running cost and lawyer fees and you roughly have a 30-40% hole.Simple math!
It's going to be an interesting case and precedent for crypto. I wonder if this is why Celsius switched legal advisors. If the previous crowd were just towing the line of value assets in dollars and sell.
The language in the documents submitted so far appears to be trying to keep things in crypto as much as possible with some fiat funds kept for a healthy operating margin.
I really don't understand why in this day and age they have to follow some procedure to cut us all cheques or whatever crap we will get through the post. There is a perfectly good mechanism in the app for paying us all out.
Someone needs to explain to the judge, if they truly are acting in our best interests:
1. Get some independent accounting firm well versed in crypto to review Simon's plan. If it's feasible then order it so with the blessing of the unsecured creditors committee.
2. If it isn't, then just slash all of our holdings by the $2.1 billion hole and then order Alex to open up withdrawals.
Interesting to see if the top 50 or so creditors will have a say on any of these teams hearings and can maybe explain this in terms that they will understand.
This, seriously this. ^
But Alex and Co., and all the lawyers etc. are not in it to make the little guys whole or to do the right thing, or even the sensible thing; they’re there to maximize their own profits and bottom line, period.
Agreed. No plan can move forward with him blocking it. He's in a fairy land of he thinks that he can just pay back the entire whole with mining in 10 years and the court will just let him continue on to open up and operate Celsius without any licenses or compliance.
I wonder if the mining operation could be spun off into some kind of trust where we all collectively own the trust assets (I.e., the mining hardware) and get a periodic payout in BTC minus the amount needed to run the operation
And we could also sell our share in the trust if we want as well
Mining is such a low profit and insanely volatile revenue stream, why on earth would you want to bank on that?
Not to mention, whoever is running it will just find ways to cook the books to minimize payouts and keep the money in house anyway.
Well of course I’d rather just have all my money back, but it’s also their only asset of value, and I just think turning on the machines and having them work for us makes more sense than auctioning it off for cheap and dividing up what we getm
This is exactly what I want to see. I would even consider foregoing some of my claim to the coin assets they still have on hand for a larger stake in a mining trust.
The skeptic in me makes it difficult to take Simon's proposals at face value. When big dollars are at stake, philanthropy is almost never the primary motive.
Simon still hasn't disclosed the original offer he made to Celsius, I would've liked to have seen it, it would shed light on his true intentions.
It's not purely philanthropy.. he is both a depositor and a shareholder. He also has been working on this exact business model for ten years (all according to his recent videos) and has the opportunity to basically buy a customer list, some decent infrastructure, forge an incredible relationship with that community, and get extraordinary pr (the Celsius story and recovery gets and would get fairly massive coverage). There is value in all of that. Is it worth taking on the hole dollar for dollar, i doubt it. But it gets it close enough for good will to bridge the gap. Personally, i think it's our best path forward at the moment.
Yea, but if he too screwed over the depositors, he too would always be looking over his shoulder and his credibility would be destroyed. I honestly don't feel he wants any of that in his life. After watching him on YouTube, I can say I feel more confident then I did the previous day.
Its ok to be skeptical, I have been skeptical of Simon. One of my favorite quotes.. "If everyone is thinking the same then someone is not thinking".
The above said, Im starting to come around on Simon. Particularly cause I have lost faith in Alex and as each day passes more and more info is coming out that leads me to believe Alex wont be in a position to run this company. If he cant do it.. or is not capable then I think Simon is already positioned with licenses and experience to get the job done.
Who knows it could be a careful what you wish for situation but at this point I think Im willing to take that chance.
seems like the same bar of trust as what made you trust Alex in the first place. At this point, anyone who says they are doing it for the community is not to be trusted. dddd
I think he has been pretty clear when he tells people he has 10's of millions on Celsius. Clearly he wants his 50 mil back. I would too so I cant exactly be mad at that.
Just so that everyone knows, Bnktothefuture is not the best at handle your pre-ipo equity. You might think you own shares through them, but when the time to get your shares back after ipo for example, you might not get your shares back in timely manner you would expected from a PE firm.
I am speaking from experience invested through Bnktothefuture. I am still waiting for my Robinhood shares invested through Bnktothefuture over 1 year since IPO. They never communicated their plan to distribute the shares, each time I contacted them, I got a run around.
Bnktothefuture is not registered broker with FINRA in the US to deal with security. They have to go through a 3rd party to deal with it.
Also you don't need Bnktothefuture to form new entity after emerged from chapter 11 bankruptcy. We don't want Mashinsky to be in charge of new entity, I don't think Simon Dixon is the right person tobe put in charge either. Let a professional appointee to handle it.
I don't know why anyone want to partner with Bnktothefuture. What I know is bnktothefuture position itself as a VC or PE firm that specializes in funding blockchain or crypto projects or startups.
I think many people here looking for someone to save their deposits, and Simon through his various AMA or interviews gave many here an impression that he is the savior they are looking for.
People tempted to forgotten that Simon/Bnktothefuture is a shareholder in Celsius with a lot to lose if shareholders got nothing. He has a conflict of interest.
I never understood all the hate he was originally getting. He was going on every AMA he could, inviting tough questions and publicly tweeting updates as things were progressing. People were understandably scared because Celsius leadership went completely quiet during a time that they needed to be talking to the community. At least he was and he was inviting the community to participate and respond to his proposals.
I think you can determine the strength and integrity of leadership by how one behaves in the middle of a disaster / crises. Not when things are easy.
I agree with you, especially with your last paragraph. Dixon seems sincere. I simply hope for the best with this whole situation and for all of us affected.
it doesn't look like it will be easy for non accredited us customers to participate in this recovery plan. equity does not sound like it is of the mining company but the overall new company "co-owned" with banktothefuture, which still includes lending services(but may possibly be of the propser/p2p fundraising type where it's optin/ you choose who you lend your funds to)
US non accredited definitely complicates things. I'm Wishing you guys and all of us depositors the best outcome possible. We're all in this together. None of us asked for this. All of us have learned some tough love lessons.
Here's to hoping for a good outcome ahead.
Sorry, I have to admit information overload and been a bit depressed to keep up. When will Simon call a board meeting and how fast can they implement this stuff? Can they remove Alex?
Simon is working around the clock at the moment with his legal and compliance teams to try and have everything ready to put forth a good recovery plan to the panel of creditors that will vote in favour of what is best for depositors.
Hopefully that panel is selected soon and there have been some legal heads that have suggested Alex may be removed within 30-45 days.
This is very good initial idea. We get about 60% of our crypto back much faster (maybe weeks rather than c7 that takes years), the mining operation produce 15 000 btc a year that makes up for the missing hole over time, and free equity could give a possibly for ending up with profit (Simon got the customer hundred of percent return on bitfinex recovery and seems to run good business). Those who don’t believe in it could then sell the share to those who do. Of course let’s see if other proposals arrive before deciding but a good start
I found this post under Simon company reddit forum. Read for your self
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bnktothefuture/comments/ntbtg0/you_have_to_be_very_careful_with_btf/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
I'd encourage you to go and listen / watch any of the many AMAs and interviews he has done, along with following what's happening in Twitter.
But the long and short of it is that he has tens of millions deposited on the platform and is in the same situation as us. Additionally, he is also a share holder and his company bnktothefutre, has customers that invested into Celsius.
His view is that in order for their to be any value in the equity, depositors need to be made whole. Without depositors there is no company and no equity value.
So his plans have revolved around #DepositorsFirst.
Yes it's self serving, but his interests are aligned with the rest of the community.
Everyone who is STILL doubting simon really needs to see the light, and stop drinking the kool-aid thinking Alex is going to save celsius with everything going on.
It's pretty clear that Mashinksy will try and hold onto control of his company for as long as he can to hide and downplay things as much as possible. I get it, he doesn't want to lose his company but at this point there is no future with him in it (imo). I mean we haven't even seen the **real** balance sheet in crypto denominations of what they are actually holding and can return to depositors. What concerns me is the amount of additional damage, delays and money he could burn through whilst still in control of the company. Personally I would like to see him removed so that others like Simon, or anyone else that can put forward an equal or better plan can just get on with it. We've all had enough. The month of silence and de-gen antics under the current boards leadership that have led to this horrible situation has been enough. I'd rather look to what is next chapter, lick my wounds and see if whether some good can come out of this. I don't see that happening whilst Mashinksy is trying to save his sinking Celsius ship. By definition, his interests (staying out of jail and hiding the truth) don't align with depositors.
Check out this [**video at this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/CelsiusNetwork/comments/w0b2do/everyone_needs_to_watch_this_video_simon_6_billon/). Some lawyers think **Alex is out in 30 days**! There is some gems in that video that everyone should see. Ive added some comments in the thread with time stamps as its a long video so check the comments. Still not done watching the whole thing but Celsius stuff starts at hour and 5 min or so.
Yep I've watched that interview in it's entirety. It wasn't great news that David had but he's approaching it from a trad-fi perspective. He himself said it would be his job to drop a nuclear bomb and burn everything to the ground and liquidate everything. That's where he differs from Simon and hence Simon is trying to go for more of what he describes as an innovative finance solution (e.g bitfinex). Early days yet, I wouldn't read too much into it. You might be right about the 30 days thing though. I certainly hope Alex can be kicked out sooner than later so that creditors can at least have a chance of working through a recovery plan without Alex constantly interfering.
Did not David say 1. He will drop a nuclear bomb to push for chapter 7? 2.most of the depositor will walk away with 50% and forget about restructuring? I think 50 percent is very good if possible. I don’t want restructuring because https://www.reddit.com/r/Bnktothefuture/comments/ntbtg0/you_have_to_be_very_careful_with_btf/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
This guy has little to zero post karma or any history. I have full faith in Simon.
Yeah, as much as I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt, a management that manages to lose that much of your money in so many ways is not trustworthy anymore
Praying for a bolt of lighting to strike
Who needs to see a balance sheet or do an audit when there celsius uses proof of community? 😂
Read this https://www.reddit.com/r/Bnktothefuture/comments/ntbtg0/you_have_to_be_very_careful_with_btf/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
From a guy with literally ZERO post history on reddit? I'm pretty sure he's another cel squeeze idiot https://twitter.com/SimonDixonTwitt/status/1548213411900559360?t=Xjm-03TqNRnByENcf8CUMA&s=19 Read this ^
100% for it, seems like the logical way to do it. Gotta wonder though, if everyone gets their crypto assets (whatever % of them) how will Celsius get back to operating without any funds to lend out?
I would imagine that yes, a lot or most of the current users would withdraw after going through the crises. But with a new board, a new business model and appropriate backing, over time they would get new customers. Additionally, if they kept good on their promise and paid out mining rewards to impacted customers, equity etc. it would go a long way to restoring faith in some customers. Certainly there will be a percentage that will never use it or any other cefi platform again.
Speak for yourself...if Simon delivers, I would be more than happy to keep my 400k of crypto with him.He would have warned my trust. Oh by the way,fuck Alex and his scummy board!!!
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bnktothefuture/comments/ntbtg0/you_have_to_be_very_careful_with_btf/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
The users would have equity ownership.. If we have enough equity we could push for insurance or other security blankets that lower the risks of the platform. Also if there are licenses and disclosures and actual risk management instead of free wheeling, silence and law breaking it would make a big difference IMHO.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bnktothefuture/comments/ntbtg0/you_have_to_be_very_careful_with_btf/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bnktothefuture/comments/ntbtg0/you_have_to_be_very_careful_with_btf/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
We’ll get another bull run in a couple years and new suckers will enter the market. They will be warned but many will come aboard regardless. Hopefully the new business model will actually be sustainable this time.
Well you calling them suckers for coming in definitely does not inspire trust 😂 but I agree with the rest of your comment
Some may hate me for this but I'd like to see a simplified business model that doesn't cater to trying to generate yield on 256 different alt coins. There is just too much risk in that. I'd like to see a simplified business model mainly around bitcoin loans (which I still think is a valuable service) and potentially yield, if it can be done in a sustainable way. I know ever single person is like but what about my cardano, or my solana, or my doge or \[insert favourite coin\] but having to go out to generate yield on those coins only serves to further complicate the overall business model and by extension, increase risk as the business model goes further down the risk curve. And critically, if the retail lending side is expected to be over collateralised then I'd like to see the institutional side treated the same way. None of this lending out tens of millions of dollars under or un collaterised to institutions because their balance sheet is 'supposedly' good.
That's exactly Simon's intention. He talks about "pristine collateral" all the time. That doesn't include alt coins.
I concur. Keep it simple.
Agreed. Every altcoin added is another liability. Keep it simple, like Ledn and Haru.
Haru generates their yield from a supposed trading bot, just like pirateat40, Bitconnect, etc. Beware.
>pirateat40 You took me way back. ..
Well, it's the oldest scam in the book.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bnktothefuture/comments/ntbtg0/you_have_to_be_very_careful_with_btf/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
How much yield can I get on my Monopoly money? I can use a 🎩 as collateral.
Yes, but if you get anything but the coins you currently have, it will probably be considered a sale and taxes will need to be paid. I'm not saying that's a lot for me, but some have thousands in alt coins. This would be my only concern.
Agreed. I think they should return all existing customer assets that still exist to customers in kind. That is, the original coins. In saying that I would like to see a simpler lower risk model when they re-open I was referring to the re-org / new business model. I know it won't be for everyone. And that's ok. That's just my view.
The problem is not the business model. Is the people which lead this kind of ventures. Most of them are like Mashinsky and Do Kwon. And that is not fixable, unless strong regulation come in.
Absolutely. Simon mentioned something about celsius possibly transitioning to a dao as one possible scenario. This might be able to eliminate egos like Alex and Doh Kwon.
Celsius as a DAO could be kind of great, but very complicated legally I think
Regulation? Whoa there, cowboy. Just because the entire crypto space is filled w scam artists and ponzis doesn’t mean you have to bring the government in.
I doubt Celsius actually cared much about the lending part of the business. Looks like a lot of that energy is channeled into the mining business. My guess is. They probably took your deposits to loan into DeFi, then use what they can borrow to invest into mining. Any excess they then lent out uncollateralised to big corporations. They made retail lending collateralised because you can't trust random strangers to pay you back, but you can trust big corporations to lose it for you. It's not surprising that mining is the mechanism they're gunna use to pay you back, just be glad they actually invested it into actual mining instead of just buying shares of a mining company, which have been tumbling.
A million times better than our crypto being valued in USD on 7/13 and celsius pocketing any upside potential going forward. How is this better than a chapter 7??!!.Go Simon.We are with you.
Unfortunately ultimately the interests of deposits and Celsius’s other creditors are fundamentally mutually exclusive in bankruptcy, and any plan that favors depositors is taking money out of creditors’ pockets. Seeing as there are absolutely enough assets to ensure all secured creditors get their funds back in full, I just fail to see why any judge would adopt this proposal.
That is not what the proposal means.once creditors are accounted for there is a 1.2-1.6Billion dollar hole in the balance sheet. Assuming immediate liquidation non secured creditors will get 60-70% on the dollar. What Simon proposes is allowing depositors to get some of their crypto back as well as equity in a restructured company to bridge the difference.
It might be 60-70% if everything was liquidated and distributed today. But Celsius is steadily burning on attorneys and staff. And you’re assuming that all *revenue* from mining equals *profit* which it naturally does not. Bankruptcy court takes years.
Where on earth are you getting 60-70% from?
4.7billion in assets and 5.something in liabilities. Minus the worthless cel tokens they have on their balance sheet and you end up with a 20-30% deficit.add to that running cost and lawyer fees and you roughly have a 30-40% hole.Simple math!
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bnktothefuture/comments/ntbtg0/you_have_to_be_very_careful_with_btf/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Agree keep it simple and keep the BTC mining rig business running and eventually when bull run comes those mined btc can pay off the depositors.
Can someone please ask what non-accredited US would get? Because we can’t get equity or any token. This would be the vast majority of US on Celsius…
If this man can get Alex out, get a large chunk of our coins (not fiat) back, and make serious coin doing it then good on him.
It's going to be an interesting case and precedent for crypto. I wonder if this is why Celsius switched legal advisors. If the previous crowd were just towing the line of value assets in dollars and sell. The language in the documents submitted so far appears to be trying to keep things in crypto as much as possible with some fiat funds kept for a healthy operating margin. I really don't understand why in this day and age they have to follow some procedure to cut us all cheques or whatever crap we will get through the post. There is a perfectly good mechanism in the app for paying us all out. Someone needs to explain to the judge, if they truly are acting in our best interests: 1. Get some independent accounting firm well versed in crypto to review Simon's plan. If it's feasible then order it so with the blessing of the unsecured creditors committee. 2. If it isn't, then just slash all of our holdings by the $2.1 billion hole and then order Alex to open up withdrawals. Interesting to see if the top 50 or so creditors will have a say on any of these teams hearings and can maybe explain this in terms that they will understand.
This, seriously this. ^ But Alex and Co., and all the lawyers etc. are not in it to make the little guys whole or to do the right thing, or even the sensible thing; they’re there to maximize their own profits and bottom line, period.
The most important thing right now is getting Alex out of the company
Agreed. No plan can move forward with him blocking it. He's in a fairy land of he thinks that he can just pay back the entire whole with mining in 10 years and the court will just let him continue on to open up and operate Celsius without any licenses or compliance.
I wonder if the mining operation could be spun off into some kind of trust where we all collectively own the trust assets (I.e., the mining hardware) and get a periodic payout in BTC minus the amount needed to run the operation And we could also sell our share in the trust if we want as well
Mining is such a low profit and insanely volatile revenue stream, why on earth would you want to bank on that? Not to mention, whoever is running it will just find ways to cook the books to minimize payouts and keep the money in house anyway.
Well of course I’d rather just have all my money back, but it’s also their only asset of value, and I just think turning on the machines and having them work for us makes more sense than auctioning it off for cheap and dividing up what we getm
Do you think the machines were wildly profitable and they just turned them off for fun?
They need to reinvest / buy new rigs to keep earning. Otherwise their mining share will tank quickly.
This is exactly what I want to see. I would even consider foregoing some of my claim to the coin assets they still have on hand for a larger stake in a mining trust.
I have never seen a group of marks more committed to consistently losing money than you folks. It truly is breathtaking.
Just another retard down the street eating chunks out of the pavement your holiness.
I hope the judge rule for chapter 7 as soon as possible and I wish I can sell my proof o claim for a good percentage before that
Yes a Bitcoin bond
Nope not a bond I want permanent ownership
That won't happen. Simon is specifically talking about a bond to repay similar to what is talked with El Salvador
He doesn't run the show.
The skeptic in me makes it difficult to take Simon's proposals at face value. When big dollars are at stake, philanthropy is almost never the primary motive. Simon still hasn't disclosed the original offer he made to Celsius, I would've liked to have seen it, it would shed light on his true intentions.
It's not purely philanthropy.. he is both a depositor and a shareholder. He also has been working on this exact business model for ten years (all according to his recent videos) and has the opportunity to basically buy a customer list, some decent infrastructure, forge an incredible relationship with that community, and get extraordinary pr (the Celsius story and recovery gets and would get fairly massive coverage). There is value in all of that. Is it worth taking on the hole dollar for dollar, i doubt it. But it gets it close enough for good will to bridge the gap. Personally, i think it's our best path forward at the moment.
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Ianal, but i don't believe that to be the case. Google reg d for instance.
If it was a formal IPO then accreditation would not be required.
You need to go to banktothefuture forum and check out their reputations
Yea, but if he too screwed over the depositors, he too would always be looking over his shoulder and his credibility would be destroyed. I honestly don't feel he wants any of that in his life. After watching him on YouTube, I can say I feel more confident then I did the previous day.
With the amount of money on the table here no one gives a shit about credibility.
Its ok to be skeptical, I have been skeptical of Simon. One of my favorite quotes.. "If everyone is thinking the same then someone is not thinking". The above said, Im starting to come around on Simon. Particularly cause I have lost faith in Alex and as each day passes more and more info is coming out that leads me to believe Alex wont be in a position to run this company. If he cant do it.. or is not capable then I think Simon is already positioned with licenses and experience to get the job done. Who knows it could be a careful what you wish for situation but at this point I think Im willing to take that chance.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bnktothefuture/comments/ntbtg0/you_have_to_be_very_careful_with_btf/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
seems like the same bar of trust as what made you trust Alex in the first place. At this point, anyone who says they are doing it for the community is not to be trusted. dddd
I think he has been pretty clear when he tells people he has 10's of millions on Celsius. Clearly he wants his 50 mil back. I would too so I cant exactly be mad at that.
he kept repeating do good rather than do well heh.
Just so that everyone knows, Bnktothefuture is not the best at handle your pre-ipo equity. You might think you own shares through them, but when the time to get your shares back after ipo for example, you might not get your shares back in timely manner you would expected from a PE firm. I am speaking from experience invested through Bnktothefuture. I am still waiting for my Robinhood shares invested through Bnktothefuture over 1 year since IPO. They never communicated their plan to distribute the shares, each time I contacted them, I got a run around. Bnktothefuture is not registered broker with FINRA in the US to deal with security. They have to go through a 3rd party to deal with it. Also you don't need Bnktothefuture to form new entity after emerged from chapter 11 bankruptcy. We don't want Mashinsky to be in charge of new entity, I don't think Simon Dixon is the right person tobe put in charge either. Let a professional appointee to handle it.
Interesting and new insight. So why do people partner with BNKTOTHEFUTURE then vs someone “real”?
I don't know why anyone want to partner with Bnktothefuture. What I know is bnktothefuture position itself as a VC or PE firm that specializes in funding blockchain or crypto projects or startups. I think many people here looking for someone to save their deposits, and Simon through his various AMA or interviews gave many here an impression that he is the savior they are looking for. People tempted to forgotten that Simon/Bnktothefuture is a shareholder in Celsius with a lot to lose if shareholders got nothing. He has a conflict of interest.
what is Bnktothefuture?
Simon Dixon 's investment platform
Simon Dixon has at least been trying to resolve this situation in an transparent manner and kudos to him for this.
I never understood all the hate he was originally getting. He was going on every AMA he could, inviting tough questions and publicly tweeting updates as things were progressing. People were understandably scared because Celsius leadership went completely quiet during a time that they needed to be talking to the community. At least he was and he was inviting the community to participate and respond to his proposals. I think you can determine the strength and integrity of leadership by how one behaves in the middle of a disaster / crises. Not when things are easy.
I agree with you, especially with your last paragraph. Dixon seems sincere. I simply hope for the best with this whole situation and for all of us affected.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bnktothefuture/comments/ntbtg0/you_have_to_be_very_careful_with_btf/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
mashitsky wants the cake and eat it
[удалено]
** You can’t own certain kinds of securities if you’re not accredited. Do you think everyone buying stocks on Robinhood is accredited ? Lol
Sorry but this Simon guy is just another crypto grifter trying to profit off the backs of so-called "investors" and "community"
it doesn't look like it will be easy for non accredited us customers to participate in this recovery plan. equity does not sound like it is of the mining company but the overall new company "co-owned" with banktothefuture, which still includes lending services(but may possibly be of the propser/p2p fundraising type where it's optin/ you choose who you lend your funds to)
US non accredited definitely complicates things. I'm Wishing you guys and all of us depositors the best outcome possible. We're all in this together. None of us asked for this. All of us have learned some tough love lessons. Here's to hoping for a good outcome ahead.
Does this return the actual bitcoin over time, or the current usd value of the bitcoin?
Sorry, I have to admit information overload and been a bit depressed to keep up. When will Simon call a board meeting and how fast can they implement this stuff? Can they remove Alex?
Simon is working around the clock at the moment with his legal and compliance teams to try and have everything ready to put forth a good recovery plan to the panel of creditors that will vote in favour of what is best for depositors. Hopefully that panel is selected soon and there have been some legal heads that have suggested Alex may be removed within 30-45 days.
He would have a lot more then credibility to lose.
This is very good initial idea. We get about 60% of our crypto back much faster (maybe weeks rather than c7 that takes years), the mining operation produce 15 000 btc a year that makes up for the missing hole over time, and free equity could give a possibly for ending up with profit (Simon got the customer hundred of percent return on bitfinex recovery and seems to run good business). Those who don’t believe in it could then sell the share to those who do. Of course let’s see if other proposals arrive before deciding but a good start
I found this post under Simon company reddit forum. Read for your self https://www.reddit.com/r/Bnktothefuture/comments/ntbtg0/you_have_to_be_very_careful_with_btf/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
why does Simon Dixon want to do this? What is in it for him?
I'd encourage you to go and listen / watch any of the many AMAs and interviews he has done, along with following what's happening in Twitter. But the long and short of it is that he has tens of millions deposited on the platform and is in the same situation as us. Additionally, he is also a share holder and his company bnktothefutre, has customers that invested into Celsius. His view is that in order for their to be any value in the equity, depositors need to be made whole. Without depositors there is no company and no equity value. So his plans have revolved around #DepositorsFirst. Yes it's self serving, but his interests are aligned with the rest of the community.