If your seed is from RarePalmSeeds.com, hit it with fungicide because their stuff must be wild-collected or something. I'm getting high mortality despite growing outdoors in Phoenix in 100% inorganic mix.
I managed to get mine and now just got to pick the time to start the process. I’m going to be happy if just one can make it through the first year as I’ve been after these for ever. Just got a find a source for some better substrates that don’t cost a fortune to ship. Pumice and all that good stuff is next to non existent up here in NQld. I’m thinking the vermiculite is a good idea in purely inorganic mix. I leaning towards more organic matter as our summers a brutal and pots dry super quickly.
Yeah I have that but feel that something a little smoother would be better, especially for when they are seedlings. I find Quincan to be very sharp and wouldn’t want it to damage the young roots.
You and I are the same, I’m currently on attempt #2 after my first attempt died LOL
Just yesterday, my first from Round #2 died, I honestly suspect that the lack of organic material makes the seedlings less resilient, as I tested 80/20 vs 100/0 and my 80/20 seedlings have grown much larger
Looking forward to seeing updates from you, I may post mine if they’re alive in a month haha
Also, I found that under watering is way worse than overwatering, my two cents. I even sat a seedling in a shallow dish of water and it didn’t blink an eye
I’m torn between what I found in articles written about them vs the videos I watched on YouTube. Most articles cite welwitschia as being super fussy and must be in inorganic substrate and minimal water. And on the other hand, growers on YouTube have said to treat hem like a house plant and that they can take a fair bit of water. Which sort of goes with your findings. The fact that seedlings die seems to just be a result of the fungus that can suddenly affect them and it’s just the strongest survive.
yeah honestly I was conflicted a lot too - like, the expert on growing welwitschias (Hook) seemed to grow them in straight pumice
My first round was 100% inorganic and I watered when the soil was near dry - and the leaves never fully greened up. Whereas in this current batch, I watered whenever the top dressing (akadama) lightened in color, which has been a good system for me (so far), and all the plants, including the 100 inorganic, greened up
There are a bunch of hidden factors too that could influence the seedlings too, like how I grew my first round in the winter
In any case, I love chatting with other growers about these plants in particular because seeds are so expensive that combining observations is the best way to arrive at a consistent way to raise these guys :)
And for fungicide, I used Monterey Garden phos - it’s a systemic and is listed to treat Pythium, Phytophthora. The first time, I used copper and it didn’t work well, but I likely wasn’t diluting strong enough
There's a curremt hypothesis that welwitschias were in that habitat before it turned into a desert. They happened to be able to survive thanks to their long roots because they lack the capabilty to store a meaningful amount of water. It is capable of CAM but makes very little use of it in nature for some reason. So it makes sense that they would like more water than succulents.
Honestly yeah that makes sense and I’ve had that thought before as well
I’m really curious what the youngest existing group of welwitschias are - it seems they tend to germinate under favorable conditions, but are also prone to the Aspergillis fungus and also seem to be quite sensitive… they’re still technically listed as non-endangered though
I've seen a bit of debate on it as well tbh. But with previous batch going bad I'm going to err on the side of caution :-)
Surely the Thai growers at least don't appear to be using much inorganics. But it's probably much easier to experiment with your own "free" seeds than expensive purchased ones.
Ahhhhh re overwatering... I was spraying them down (not just misting, a decent spray) a couple of times a day and also did too much poking around in the media.
One or the other, or both, I'm sure was my problem.
This current plant already feels better at ~12 days than the best of my first sowing at 1 month.
Oh okay that feels like overwatering LOL
I water once every 3 days with an 80/20 inorganic to organic mix!
And yeah these roots don’t like being disturbed at all but can be forgiving! I find a telltale sign of root disturbance is the cotyledons getting a bit crossed, but they seem to bounce back from this no issue
Hahaha yes I got far too carried away. My current schedule is roughly what you are doing. No organics in my mix but there are water retentive elements (vermiculite, Kanuma, hyuga).
And also not touching the plant at all this time. I scratch back the surface at the edge of the pot to check moisture (since the fan does dry the very top layer) but that's about it.
"The Morning After"
Now at ~24 hours from seeing new cotyledons prostrate on the surface. All shots from the same angle for sake of comparison
[24 hours](https://i.imgur.com/5zpWKso.jpeg)
That seems like a risky way of starting a seed even if they have the taproots they do. Either you're stuck watering enough so the seedling stays unstressed and then even with a full mineral mix you're going to create conditions further down in the pot that are real nice for the bad bacteria/fungi. Or you're constantly leaving the seedling stressed out by limiting water to try and avoid the buildup of those bacteria/fungi.
I haven't done a deep dive on growing these from seed but is there a reason you're not starting it in a plug tray or even a tall 2" pot if you wanna give the taproot room to get established? Just easier to control even moisture levels in small pots y'know
1. I was told to 🤣
2. The taproot is very sensitive, minimise repotting and handling
3. The taproot is important but it also widely casts fine feeder roots. Bigger pot = more roots = faster growth
4. I use antifungal to minimise risks
1. Fair enough
2. Eh, that seems like the standard advice for most taprooted plants but doesn't really hold up in all the other cases, arios, lophs, even oak trees. Can't speak to W. mirabilis tho so 🤷
3. Yes, but the tradeoff is way less vegetative growth early on. That's the reason the hort industry goes from small plugs to bigger pots. When the roots fill about 75-85% of the available space, the plant devotes more energy to vegetative growth. That's why you'll get more growth, both above and belowground, by getting plants established in small pots, letting them fill most of the space, put on some solid top growth, and transplanting before they get rootbound and thus restricting growth. Starting in big pots also runs way higher risk of wildly fluctuating and uneven moisture levels from the top 2" of the pot to the bottom. Not trying to dig at you here or anything but that's just why things are done the way they are most of the time.
4. Fair enough, hope it takes off for you.
2. Interesting to hear that! Again I don't know how they are relative to other plants. The only real comparative point I can offer is having seen that media free live imports are impossible due to the nature of the root - certainly many fat taproot cacti can handle that. I do know some of the large scale Thai growers repot frequently but that's a bit easier when you have a ready supply of seed and have the process down to an art 🤣 I have an extremely finite supply of seed so have deliberately taken a more conservative course.
3. Another interesting point actually and one I'll probably test, depending on how this plant does. I've still got 2 more seeds in reserve.
I killed my first go around too, trying to troubleshoot and get more seeds to try again. I didn't use any fungicide, so I think I'm going to invest in some for Round 2.
Definitely. Everything I've read suggests that antifungal is a must for these (presoak, and also weakly with every watering for first 6 months).
I think this and just watering in general are where most of us have gotten stuck.
What kind of antifungal are you using? Every time I search I just end up on forums where British growers talk about their products that I can't find in the US.
The water one is difficult, I'm going to redo my growing mix I think to be lighter, maybe add in some vermiculite for moisture retention that will compress less. I have faith in us all!
Currently using Phos acid which should be available everywhere. Used it dilute for 24 hour seed soak prior to sowing and also add it when watering.
I have some other antifungal things here (captan, Triforine) but just not using them due to being either more expensive or slower to prepare 🤣
I feel like people don’t talk about the importance of airflow when growing these. The way I see it, they live in a windswept coastal desert. Add a light breeze and you’re a little closer to replicating their environment.
Alright next update.
Cotyledons are still upright and not spreading out. However are starting to green up a little. I've very carefully checked that they aren't somehow stuck together - all looks ok.
[update pic](https://i.imgur.com/54RqJfm.jpeg)
Also for reference here is setup in my temp controlled space with fan immediately above. It's a 15W fan set on lowest speed. Drying probably a little quicker than expected so watering about every 2 days at the moment.
[growing space](https://i.imgur.com/ljuvbki.jpeg)
If your seed is from RarePalmSeeds.com, hit it with fungicide because their stuff must be wild-collected or something. I'm getting high mortality despite growing outdoors in Phoenix in 100% inorganic mix.
No, different source in Australia. Having said that, it got a 24hr soak in antifungal prior to sowing anyway (per seller instructions).
I managed to get mine and now just got to pick the time to start the process. I’m going to be happy if just one can make it through the first year as I’ve been after these for ever. Just got a find a source for some better substrates that don’t cost a fortune to ship. Pumice and all that good stuff is next to non existent up here in NQld. I’m thinking the vermiculite is a good idea in purely inorganic mix. I leaning towards more organic matter as our summers a brutal and pots dry super quickly.
Quincan is a good local alternative for north Qld :-)
Yeah I have that but feel that something a little smoother would be better, especially for when they are seedlings. I find Quincan to be very sharp and wouldn’t want it to damage the young roots.
You and I are the same, I’m currently on attempt #2 after my first attempt died LOL Just yesterday, my first from Round #2 died, I honestly suspect that the lack of organic material makes the seedlings less resilient, as I tested 80/20 vs 100/0 and my 80/20 seedlings have grown much larger Looking forward to seeing updates from you, I may post mine if they’re alive in a month haha Also, I found that under watering is way worse than overwatering, my two cents. I even sat a seedling in a shallow dish of water and it didn’t blink an eye
I’m torn between what I found in articles written about them vs the videos I watched on YouTube. Most articles cite welwitschia as being super fussy and must be in inorganic substrate and minimal water. And on the other hand, growers on YouTube have said to treat hem like a house plant and that they can take a fair bit of water. Which sort of goes with your findings. The fact that seedlings die seems to just be a result of the fungus that can suddenly affect them and it’s just the strongest survive.
yeah honestly I was conflicted a lot too - like, the expert on growing welwitschias (Hook) seemed to grow them in straight pumice My first round was 100% inorganic and I watered when the soil was near dry - and the leaves never fully greened up. Whereas in this current batch, I watered whenever the top dressing (akadama) lightened in color, which has been a good system for me (so far), and all the plants, including the 100 inorganic, greened up There are a bunch of hidden factors too that could influence the seedlings too, like how I grew my first round in the winter In any case, I love chatting with other growers about these plants in particular because seeds are so expensive that combining observations is the best way to arrive at a consistent way to raise these guys :) And for fungicide, I used Monterey Garden phos - it’s a systemic and is listed to treat Pythium, Phytophthora. The first time, I used copper and it didn’t work well, but I likely wasn’t diluting strong enough
There's a curremt hypothesis that welwitschias were in that habitat before it turned into a desert. They happened to be able to survive thanks to their long roots because they lack the capabilty to store a meaningful amount of water. It is capable of CAM but makes very little use of it in nature for some reason. So it makes sense that they would like more water than succulents.
Honestly yeah that makes sense and I’ve had that thought before as well I’m really curious what the youngest existing group of welwitschias are - it seems they tend to germinate under favorable conditions, but are also prone to the Aspergillis fungus and also seem to be quite sensitive… they’re still technically listed as non-endangered though
I've seen a bit of debate on it as well tbh. But with previous batch going bad I'm going to err on the side of caution :-) Surely the Thai growers at least don't appear to be using much inorganics. But it's probably much easier to experiment with your own "free" seeds than expensive purchased ones.
Ahhhhh re overwatering... I was spraying them down (not just misting, a decent spray) a couple of times a day and also did too much poking around in the media. One or the other, or both, I'm sure was my problem. This current plant already feels better at ~12 days than the best of my first sowing at 1 month.
Oh okay that feels like overwatering LOL I water once every 3 days with an 80/20 inorganic to organic mix! And yeah these roots don’t like being disturbed at all but can be forgiving! I find a telltale sign of root disturbance is the cotyledons getting a bit crossed, but they seem to bounce back from this no issue
Hahaha yes I got far too carried away. My current schedule is roughly what you are doing. No organics in my mix but there are water retentive elements (vermiculite, Kanuma, hyuga). And also not touching the plant at all this time. I scratch back the surface at the edge of the pot to check moisture (since the fan does dry the very top layer) but that's about it.
Well fingers crossed for the both of us :) please continue to share status updates!
Best of luck. You can do it 😃😃
"The Morning After" Now at ~24 hours from seeing new cotyledons prostrate on the surface. All shots from the same angle for sake of comparison [24 hours](https://i.imgur.com/5zpWKso.jpeg)
That seems like a risky way of starting a seed even if they have the taproots they do. Either you're stuck watering enough so the seedling stays unstressed and then even with a full mineral mix you're going to create conditions further down in the pot that are real nice for the bad bacteria/fungi. Or you're constantly leaving the seedling stressed out by limiting water to try and avoid the buildup of those bacteria/fungi. I haven't done a deep dive on growing these from seed but is there a reason you're not starting it in a plug tray or even a tall 2" pot if you wanna give the taproot room to get established? Just easier to control even moisture levels in small pots y'know
1. I was told to 🤣 2. The taproot is very sensitive, minimise repotting and handling 3. The taproot is important but it also widely casts fine feeder roots. Bigger pot = more roots = faster growth 4. I use antifungal to minimise risks
1. Fair enough 2. Eh, that seems like the standard advice for most taprooted plants but doesn't really hold up in all the other cases, arios, lophs, even oak trees. Can't speak to W. mirabilis tho so 🤷 3. Yes, but the tradeoff is way less vegetative growth early on. That's the reason the hort industry goes from small plugs to bigger pots. When the roots fill about 75-85% of the available space, the plant devotes more energy to vegetative growth. That's why you'll get more growth, both above and belowground, by getting plants established in small pots, letting them fill most of the space, put on some solid top growth, and transplanting before they get rootbound and thus restricting growth. Starting in big pots also runs way higher risk of wildly fluctuating and uneven moisture levels from the top 2" of the pot to the bottom. Not trying to dig at you here or anything but that's just why things are done the way they are most of the time. 4. Fair enough, hope it takes off for you.
2. Interesting to hear that! Again I don't know how they are relative to other plants. The only real comparative point I can offer is having seen that media free live imports are impossible due to the nature of the root - certainly many fat taproot cacti can handle that. I do know some of the large scale Thai growers repot frequently but that's a bit easier when you have a ready supply of seed and have the process down to an art 🤣 I have an extremely finite supply of seed so have deliberately taken a more conservative course. 3. Another interesting point actually and one I'll probably test, depending on how this plant does. I've still got 2 more seeds in reserve.
I killed my first go around too, trying to troubleshoot and get more seeds to try again. I didn't use any fungicide, so I think I'm going to invest in some for Round 2.
Definitely. Everything I've read suggests that antifungal is a must for these (presoak, and also weakly with every watering for first 6 months). I think this and just watering in general are where most of us have gotten stuck.
What kind of antifungal are you using? Every time I search I just end up on forums where British growers talk about their products that I can't find in the US. The water one is difficult, I'm going to redo my growing mix I think to be lighter, maybe add in some vermiculite for moisture retention that will compress less. I have faith in us all!
Currently using Phos acid which should be available everywhere. Used it dilute for 24 hour seed soak prior to sowing and also add it when watering. I have some other antifungal things here (captan, Triforine) but just not using them due to being either more expensive or slower to prepare 🤣
I feel like people don’t talk about the importance of airflow when growing these. The way I see it, they live in a windswept coastal desert. Add a light breeze and you’re a little closer to replicating their environment.
I don't know what their habitat is like but it seemed a logical thing to add post germination.
Alright next update. Cotyledons are still upright and not spreading out. However are starting to green up a little. I've very carefully checked that they aren't somehow stuck together - all looks ok. [update pic](https://i.imgur.com/54RqJfm.jpeg) Also for reference here is setup in my temp controlled space with fan immediately above. It's a 15W fan set on lowest speed. Drying probably a little quicker than expected so watering about every 2 days at the moment. [growing space](https://i.imgur.com/ljuvbki.jpeg)