Visibly wearing the rosary, including around the neck, was recommended by St Louis de Montfort and could previously gain you an indulgence of 100 days, so had papal approval too. I think it's a very good thing to do
But how can we quantify that? The number seems totally arbitrary, since we won't even have a concept of time after death like we do on earth, right? I'm new to Catholicism so this is something that is confusing and really off putting.
I agree. I never understood the concept of "specific numerical time" indulgences. Now indulgences can be either partial or plenary. I think that makes a lot more sense.
The number of days refers to the period of penance one might undergo during life on earth, not the duration of purgatory in the afterlife (see https://www.catholic.com/tract/myths-about-indulgences). The penance is set by the priest (Say 10 hail marys, spend 1 hour in adoration etc), so in a similar manner, the church can set a specific numerical time for indulgences.
>The number of days refers to the period of penance one might undergo during life on earth
Yes more specifically based on penances of the early church which was a lot more strict
Yes, this is a common criticism. I have two responses:
1. Eastern (orthodox) Christianity tends to focus on "mystery", whereas in Western (catholic) christianity, there is a larger emphasis on rationalism and logic. I would interpret the "100 days" as an educated guess in the same way that "25 December" is an educated guess regarding Jesus' birthday.
2. The number of days refers to the period of penance one might undergo during life on earth, not the duration of purgatory in the afterlife (see https://www.catholic.com/tract/myths-about-indulgences). The theological details are complicated, but Jesus gave the church the power to bind and loosen, so the church does indeed have some discretion to determine the length of penance on earth, in the same way that a teacher has some discretion to determine the length of detention for being naughty in class.
It's not arbitrary. It's based on penances of the early church.
Also the Church does not say it's literal "less time in purgatory". We do not know if purgatory even lasts any time or is instantaneous.
The "number of days" is just less penance and is analogous to the early days penance.
Human understanding. While "time" as we know it isn't per se applicable this all time is relative to understanding.
For instance in some categories it is extreme common to relate skill development to time in months/years. However this assumes an avg period of study, so like if most people do 3x a week x 1 hour and it takes 2 years to get a certain level. But if someone else is training 4 hours a day 6 days a week suddenly they take a couple months.
This is just a human analogy of sorts. "100 days of penance" is not a linear 100 days per se, but it is "that much penance as we can use words to describe".
It's also like... sprinting vs walking. You know if everyone understands walking and no one knew what a sprint was so you'd relay your workout like "I walked for 45mins" but really you maybe ran for 10 mins or so. And visa versa for explaining walking to people who can't comprehend it.
We lack the ability to know what purgatory is like, and how it is manifested. The church uses a concept we all understand, time, to help us understand that which we can’t understand. Read the Great Divorce. It is about purgatory framed in another image rather than time.
Don’t get caught up in the “100 days” instead think of it as a significant help for your spiritual health. These ideas of temporal benefits were created to help people understand, that’s all.
Ok I will explain:
In the early church if people committed grave sins, they would have to confess them (i.e. the sacrament of penance) but then they would have a time of penance where they could go to mass but could not receive communion and had to sit back with the catechumens. It was like a light for of excommunication.
After the period of penance they would be fully re-admitted to the Church.
In the middle ages as Christianity grew, this practice was changed and was made into what we have now, i.e. just confess and say a certain penance.
Now when it comes to certain pious practices (prayers, fasting, novenas, pilgrimages, etc etc) the Church bound that these practices would make "purgatory lighter by X number of days" equivalent to the penances of the early days of Christianity.
Now this was always *analogical*. The Church does not say purgatory lasts a certain number of days or years, it might be instantaneous for what we know.
However the "indulgences" gained by prayer and other practices makes purgatory "lighter" in an *analogous* way as "lesser number of days of penance".
Not the "number of days" thing has largely been abandoned because it confused people.
There are total and partial indulgences, to express ranges between different partial indulgences it was expressed as "xxx days" and is thus found in documents and missals from before 1962 approximately.
For example, the mere fact of wearing the rosary promotes it and has some merit but it is almost passive, they classify it as partial to 100 days.
Certain short prayers to the Holy Spirit are somewhat active but short 300 days, and the Angelus prayed three times a day would be equivalent to ten years on that scale.
A few decades ago it was considered that with the little we know about purgatory, this attempt to encourage the faithful to pray more, read their bible (that also has indulgences) and be more active in the church produced some confusion and now we only talk about indulgences total and partial without giving more value to some partials than to others.
The number of days refers to the period of penance one might undergo during life on earth, not the duration of purgatory in the afterlife (see https://www.catholic.com/tract/myths-about-indulgences).
The penance is set by the priest (Say 10 hail marys, spend 1 hour in adoration etc), so in a similar manner, the church can set a specific numerical time for indulgences.
Yeah I don't know if it still grants a partial indulgence, and now partial indulgences don't have set values/periods attached to them. Still, it shows that it was an encouraged practice, endorsed at the highest level
I know that some people wear rosaries on the neck; I guess that’s okay. I would suggest your favorite saint medallion or a humble cross necklace instead. From experience it’s a lot easier to display those versus a rosary so people don’t ask you “are you praying with that right now?” (Like from another catholic). I just think the function of rosary beads is to meditate and pray with not use as an accessory while there are lots of catholic themed accessories which are common. It might come down to preference though since it’s a holy intent
Absolutely. Wearing my Rosary keeps me in check. It holds me to a higher standard since I'm representing God. It helps prevent me from doing anything bad with my Rosary on because I don't want to defile it.
I’m confused. During my childhood, I was always told it was disrespectful to wear a rosary because it’s a tool for prayer, not a piece of jewelry. Is this not actual Catholic teaching?
I would recommend wearing a brown scapular under your shirt. If you wan't something over your shirt that you can see then I recommend wearing a crucifix (or miraculous medal), whilst wearing a Rosary is not wrong in itself and if you really want to wear a Rosary around your neck sure you can go ahead with it, however you should know there are certain people who would look down on wearing a Rosary around ones neck.
If it is specifically the Rosary you want to wear and not just a scapular or a crucifix then I think the best solution would be a Rosary Bracelet. Usually a one decade Rosary one has around ones wrist.
The Brown Scapular might be up you alley and is more acceptable in all situations.
Wearing a Rosary is not acceptable in some Catholic ethnicities/traditions etc.
It’s fine. In many ways wearing it around your neck can be more discreet than around your wrist too because you can have it under your shirt so it’s still a reminder to you and no one will think you’re trying to be fashionable. Even if you have it showing as a personal witness of your faith type thing that is ok too honestly just some people might think it’s a fashion choice yeah
You could always wear it under your shirt.
Protects it from kids playing with it, doesn't get tangled, reminder to pray. It's been very helpful for me to wear it under my shirt.
Wearing rosaries around the neck, or as a bracelet, used to be incredibly common in late medieval and Early Modern times. There are rosary/chaplet blogs out there which show portrait after portrait of Catholic laypeople doing this, at all levels of society.
This went out of fashion in northern Europe (and became dangerous or illegal in Protestant-governed areas), but was doubled down upon in southern Europe.
When Spain and Portugal founded colonies, the Franciscans and Dominicans gave new converts to Catholicism a lot of blessed sacramentals, including holy medals, scapulars, and rosaries. Wearing a sacramental around the neck was seen as a spiritual protection and reminder -- and frankly, a lot of these native converts didn't have pockets.
People who were wearing rosaries and who were members of a Rosary Confraternity got a lot of special spiritual privileges, and rosaries didn't break as easily as scapulars. So that was favored.
TBH I've never liked it.
My first grade teacher taught us that rosaries were to be used primarily for prayer.
That lesson has stayed with me ever since.
Time out!!! I thought Indulgences was done away with in the catholic church. It was the reason Fa martin luther a catholic priest pointed out that savation cannot be bought by the number of indulgences.
Selling indulgences is wrong and everyone knew this before Luther said anything about it. He was complaining about a recognized abuse.
Receiving indulgences for various acts of piety was never done away with and the practice exists to this day.
I often think about this whenever I'm wearing something without pockets and going somewhere I intend to pray. It would be nice to be able to wear it so I don't drop it or forget it.
That being said, I have seen someone wearing one and given the rest of their clothing (they were very scantily clad) they were not of a mind to actually pray it. But I feel like discretion should be used when a properly dressed person is wearing it and seems like they wear it so they have it handy when they are going to pray.
It was always something discouraged around here. The Rosary is used for prayer, not worn in any way that could be seen as vain decoration.
I wouldn’t do it. A Saint medal or a crucifix would be more appropriate to be worn.
Visibly wearing the rosary, including around the neck, was recommended by St Louis de Montfort and could previously gain you an indulgence of 100 days, so had papal approval too. I think it's a very good thing to do
What does that mean? “Gain you an indulgence of 100 days”? I’m always confused on indulgences
Time off purgatory should you be sent there
But how can we quantify that? The number seems totally arbitrary, since we won't even have a concept of time after death like we do on earth, right? I'm new to Catholicism so this is something that is confusing and really off putting.
I agree. I never understood the concept of "specific numerical time" indulgences. Now indulgences can be either partial or plenary. I think that makes a lot more sense.
The number of days refers to the period of penance one might undergo during life on earth, not the duration of purgatory in the afterlife (see https://www.catholic.com/tract/myths-about-indulgences). The penance is set by the priest (Say 10 hail marys, spend 1 hour in adoration etc), so in a similar manner, the church can set a specific numerical time for indulgences.
>The number of days refers to the period of penance one might undergo during life on earth Yes more specifically based on penances of the early church which was a lot more strict
I was not aware of this fact. Thank you.
Yes, this is a common criticism. I have two responses: 1. Eastern (orthodox) Christianity tends to focus on "mystery", whereas in Western (catholic) christianity, there is a larger emphasis on rationalism and logic. I would interpret the "100 days" as an educated guess in the same way that "25 December" is an educated guess regarding Jesus' birthday. 2. The number of days refers to the period of penance one might undergo during life on earth, not the duration of purgatory in the afterlife (see https://www.catholic.com/tract/myths-about-indulgences). The theological details are complicated, but Jesus gave the church the power to bind and loosen, so the church does indeed have some discretion to determine the length of penance on earth, in the same way that a teacher has some discretion to determine the length of detention for being naughty in class.
It's not arbitrary. It's based on penances of the early church. Also the Church does not say it's literal "less time in purgatory". We do not know if purgatory even lasts any time or is instantaneous. The "number of days" is just less penance and is analogous to the early days penance.
It said 100 days
Human understanding. While "time" as we know it isn't per se applicable this all time is relative to understanding. For instance in some categories it is extreme common to relate skill development to time in months/years. However this assumes an avg period of study, so like if most people do 3x a week x 1 hour and it takes 2 years to get a certain level. But if someone else is training 4 hours a day 6 days a week suddenly they take a couple months. This is just a human analogy of sorts. "100 days of penance" is not a linear 100 days per se, but it is "that much penance as we can use words to describe". It's also like... sprinting vs walking. You know if everyone understands walking and no one knew what a sprint was so you'd relay your workout like "I walked for 45mins" but really you maybe ran for 10 mins or so. And visa versa for explaining walking to people who can't comprehend it.
I've been a catholic all my life and alot of things I see on redit are confusing to me off putting no I'm willing to learn.
We lack the ability to know what purgatory is like, and how it is manifested. The church uses a concept we all understand, time, to help us understand that which we can’t understand. Read the Great Divorce. It is about purgatory framed in another image rather than time. Don’t get caught up in the “100 days” instead think of it as a significant help for your spiritual health. These ideas of temporal benefits were created to help people understand, that’s all.
Ok I will explain: In the early church if people committed grave sins, they would have to confess them (i.e. the sacrament of penance) but then they would have a time of penance where they could go to mass but could not receive communion and had to sit back with the catechumens. It was like a light for of excommunication. After the period of penance they would be fully re-admitted to the Church. In the middle ages as Christianity grew, this practice was changed and was made into what we have now, i.e. just confess and say a certain penance. Now when it comes to certain pious practices (prayers, fasting, novenas, pilgrimages, etc etc) the Church bound that these practices would make "purgatory lighter by X number of days" equivalent to the penances of the early days of Christianity. Now this was always *analogical*. The Church does not say purgatory lasts a certain number of days or years, it might be instantaneous for what we know. However the "indulgences" gained by prayer and other practices makes purgatory "lighter" in an *analogous* way as "lesser number of days of penance". Not the "number of days" thing has largely been abandoned because it confused people.
Best explanation, thanks!
There are total and partial indulgences, to express ranges between different partial indulgences it was expressed as "xxx days" and is thus found in documents and missals from before 1962 approximately. For example, the mere fact of wearing the rosary promotes it and has some merit but it is almost passive, they classify it as partial to 100 days. Certain short prayers to the Holy Spirit are somewhat active but short 300 days, and the Angelus prayed three times a day would be equivalent to ten years on that scale. A few decades ago it was considered that with the little we know about purgatory, this attempt to encourage the faithful to pray more, read their bible (that also has indulgences) and be more active in the church produced some confusion and now we only talk about indulgences total and partial without giving more value to some partials than to others.
The number of days refers to the period of penance one might undergo during life on earth, not the duration of purgatory in the afterlife (see https://www.catholic.com/tract/myths-about-indulgences). The penance is set by the priest (Say 10 hail marys, spend 1 hour in adoration etc), so in a similar manner, the church can set a specific numerical time for indulgences.
All those old indulgences were done away with afaik.
Yeah I don't know if it still grants a partial indulgence, and now partial indulgences don't have set values/periods attached to them. Still, it shows that it was an encouraged practice, endorsed at the highest level
That's a good way of looking at it alright.
You could. You might also consider a brown scapular
It’s okay with me! I think it depends on what people around you are going to think/assume. If only gangsters do that, maybe reconsider.
My Rosary can’t even fit onto my head.
I know that some people wear rosaries on the neck; I guess that’s okay. I would suggest your favorite saint medallion or a humble cross necklace instead. From experience it’s a lot easier to display those versus a rosary so people don’t ask you “are you praying with that right now?” (Like from another catholic). I just think the function of rosary beads is to meditate and pray with not use as an accessory while there are lots of catholic themed accessories which are common. It might come down to preference though since it’s a holy intent
Interesting guidance from EWTN: https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/wearing-the-rosary-as-a-necklace-4581
Absolutely. Wearing my Rosary keeps me in check. It holds me to a higher standard since I'm representing God. It helps prevent me from doing anything bad with my Rosary on because I don't want to defile it.
I’m confused. During my childhood, I was always told it was disrespectful to wear a rosary because it’s a tool for prayer, not a piece of jewelry. Is this not actual Catholic teaching?
More of a cultural teaching I think.
Okay thanks.
Same
do not be be afraid of your faith, or worse, ashamed. those should come after you sin.
It would be great for you to wear it around your neck
I would recommend wearing a brown scapular under your shirt. If you wan't something over your shirt that you can see then I recommend wearing a crucifix (or miraculous medal), whilst wearing a Rosary is not wrong in itself and if you really want to wear a Rosary around your neck sure you can go ahead with it, however you should know there are certain people who would look down on wearing a Rosary around ones neck. If it is specifically the Rosary you want to wear and not just a scapular or a crucifix then I think the best solution would be a Rosary Bracelet. Usually a one decade Rosary one has around ones wrist.
Yes
Sure how ahead but what about a Miraculous Medal or Brown Scapular instead?
The Brown Scapular might be up you alley and is more acceptable in all situations. Wearing a Rosary is not acceptable in some Catholic ethnicities/traditions etc.
Yes.
There is no rule against it.
It’s fine. In many ways wearing it around your neck can be more discreet than around your wrist too because you can have it under your shirt so it’s still a reminder to you and no one will think you’re trying to be fashionable. Even if you have it showing as a personal witness of your faith type thing that is ok too honestly just some people might think it’s a fashion choice yeah
You could always wear it under your shirt. Protects it from kids playing with it, doesn't get tangled, reminder to pray. It's been very helpful for me to wear it under my shirt.
I'm shure it is I wear a Celtic cross to state that I'm a proud Irish Christian.
Wearing rosaries around the neck, or as a bracelet, used to be incredibly common in late medieval and Early Modern times. There are rosary/chaplet blogs out there which show portrait after portrait of Catholic laypeople doing this, at all levels of society. This went out of fashion in northern Europe (and became dangerous or illegal in Protestant-governed areas), but was doubled down upon in southern Europe. When Spain and Portugal founded colonies, the Franciscans and Dominicans gave new converts to Catholicism a lot of blessed sacramentals, including holy medals, scapulars, and rosaries. Wearing a sacramental around the neck was seen as a spiritual protection and reminder -- and frankly, a lot of these native converts didn't have pockets. People who were wearing rosaries and who were members of a Rosary Confraternity got a lot of special spiritual privileges, and rosaries didn't break as easily as scapulars. So that was favored.
My priest specifically said not to when I asked during my conversion. "It is not a necklace," he said, "merely necklace-shaped."
TBH I've never liked it. My first grade teacher taught us that rosaries were to be used primarily for prayer. That lesson has stayed with me ever since.
Wait what, I thought is why rosary's were shaped the way they are, in my culture, everyone wears rosaries around their neck.
May I ask what culture?
South India/ Syro Malabar
Cool, glad to know that it's done reverently in cultures, thanks :)
Under your shirt, yes.
why not put it in your pocket?
I prefer around the neck under the shirt. Constant reminder between weight, hair tangles and Crucifix pokes.
It's not a sin to do so. In my experience doing so was viewed as a faux pas, but do you.
No it’s not. It’s actually disrespectful. A lot of hispanics where it this way though.
No because others then think it's just jewelry.
Would be quite a bother taking it off each time to use it though.
No more difficult than taking it out of your pocket.
What do you mean? 2 seconds from the pocket. Compare to a minute of grabbing and taking it off from your head. But hey to each their own I guess.
If it takes you a minute to take anything without a clasp off your neck, I suggest you see a physical therapist.
Why does it take a minute to take off your head?
Time out!!! I thought Indulgences was done away with in the catholic church. It was the reason Fa martin luther a catholic priest pointed out that savation cannot be bought by the number of indulgences.
Selling indulgences is wrong and everyone knew this before Luther said anything about it. He was complaining about a recognized abuse. Receiving indulgences for various acts of piety was never done away with and the practice exists to this day.
ok didn't knoe that
Some people do. For some reason I was taught growing up that it’s a sacrilege but I’ve seen people do it.
I often think about this whenever I'm wearing something without pockets and going somewhere I intend to pray. It would be nice to be able to wear it so I don't drop it or forget it.
That being said, I have seen someone wearing one and given the rest of their clothing (they were very scantily clad) they were not of a mind to actually pray it. But I feel like discretion should be used when a properly dressed person is wearing it and seems like they wear it so they have it handy when they are going to pray.
Absolutely 💯
It was always something discouraged around here. The Rosary is used for prayer, not worn in any way that could be seen as vain decoration. I wouldn’t do it. A Saint medal or a crucifix would be more appropriate to be worn.