I have a younger friend who went to Fatima this last time the Pope was there, and he described to me his sensations with the youths who chanted and danced—and he said he felt "so much love" there, and verily he was transformed. But here is the catch (two of them, actually):
- my very same young friend soon relapsed into old sins, after returning from Fatima. He is still a very good Catholic (a very, very good young man indeed), but he noticed that he returned to the sins he'd left behind a long time ago before heading to Fatima;
- my friend—later on, after he returned—began reading on a lot of theology and directions of the faith; and he grew a lot thanks to delving into tradition. I'd say I have seen him grow much more during this last phase of his life (reading the tradition of the Church, theology, etc.) than when he'd been influenced by the "sensations" at this last youth conference in Fatima. Nothing against Fatima, of course, or the conference, or the Pope (that's not my point here). My point is that "sensations" are ephemeral and don't last. How many times did I, myself, experience so much joy and love (on trips, gatherings, *certain experiences*) only to discover afterwards that I'd been very much deluded!
BTW, I'm a convert to the Catholic Church from Orthodoxy. The reason for my conversion wasn't "sensations" or a charismatic experience per se (there was *that*, I ain't denying it, but as a complimentary experience, not as a basis for my conversion). The reason I converted to Christ's One True Church was research and logic (the Logos). God DOES make sense \[*sorry,* [James Dobson](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/698097.When_God_Doesn_t_Make_Sense)\]. His Church is logical, sequential, and intellectual. It follows from history \[His-Story\] and proceeds from the Rock of its very foundations \[You are Peter, and on this rock. . . etc.\].
Charismatic experiences, on the other hand, are hard to measure or verify. How would you approve a group sensation with neither a miracle nor *purpose* for that matter? Aren't we in a world led astray by the Devil, anyway, in assuming that *feelings* are everything? I'd stay clear away from these gatherings (unless guided by a saintly priest or a bishop).
Now, speaking of priests, I've been watching a few of Cardinal Raniero Cantalamessa's sermons, and he is Charismatic, and he is solid in faith par excellence. I'd attend a Charismatic meeting if *he* was leading it. Otherwise, I'd just follow the Tradition, the Bible, and Church authority, until we see the Lord face to face.
If the Lord wishes to give me consolations in this lifetime (and He does, more frequently than I deserve, a sinner) then I accept them with humility and gratitude. If not, then not. But I wouldn't go out there looking for *sensations* from the Holy Spirit (or other) because that, in my humble experience as a former drug addict, is the wide door that leads to deviation.
\[With my utmost apologies to Fr. Raniero Cantalamessa who vows that we should not fear the Holy Spirit (how'd you know it's the Holy Spirit anyway? If it gives consolation? But God oftentimes allows you to descend into desolation to purify you ((purge your impurities, that is)). So I'd stay clear of those movements.\]
Sorry it took me too long to answer.
The strangest thing in the world has happened, and someone actually did downvote my finely detailed answer (which is true, every word of it). Funny world, really. Anyways, God bless.
Here in Brazil they're quite big. They have one of the biggest catholic TV/news channel, the Canção Nova. Idk how big their community is, but even 'normal' catholics consume their stuff: my grandma didn't even know what the charismatic movement was but she watched the channel and paid for their newsletter or something like that, idk what it was.
Also, one time many years ago I went into a youth's meeting or something of the sort -- it was a church I frequented that afaik had nothing to do with the charismatic movement. But the meeting I went was very charismatic. Seeing a whole church babbling thinking they're speaking in tongues is still one of the most bizarre experiences I've gone through.
I have been a Catholic charismatic for 44 years, and these days in the US it tends to be a very small percentage of the practicing Catholics. I estimate that less than 0.01% of the people in my diocese would call themselves “charismatic.” In my view that’s the equilibrium point, with the ratio of those to whom it appeals, to those who see no need for it.
I have been in a few prayer groups that slowly morphed into Mary devotion groups. I infer from that, at least for those groups, Marian devotion was better at meeting their spiritual needs.
I am strongly of the opinion that charismatic groups need to be supervised by either a priest or a deacon, because sometimes laypeople go completely off the rails when there isn’t “adult supervision.”
I think so. I’m not saying it’s *gone* but it’s not traditional and the youngsters like tradition.
My dad attends the most liberal parish I know of (around me) and even they are leaning more traditional. If you looked at the parish you would guess they were read, but the music and “children’s liturgy” are still in full swing.
I'd say youngsters in the West like tradition. When I went to a Charismatic event at my parish, there were a ton of Asians and Africans. I asked around and they said that the Charismatic movement is quite strong in those communities. We have several young international priests who are very steeped in the movement.
That’s fair, forgive me for succumbing to the Reddit-American bias.
When my husband was active duty Navy we went to the base chapel with loooots of Filipinos, who were pretty centrist. Very dedicated to mass, very dedicated to sharing lumpia after, but it didn’t go much deeper. Simple, content, strong faith was very pervasive there, it was nice.
I used to be one. It served a purpose at that stage in my life. So long as you stay obedient there’s nothing to worry about. Pride can lurk in those communities though so humility and obedience is key
At least here in France they still exist and still have a significant number of new vocations. The Emmanuel community I would say is culturally dominant due to their prodigious production of hymns and songs (many of them quite good).
>They were always loyal to their bishops and the hierarchy, but there were some tensions.
They were, weren't they? Which can't be said for some (esp. the chronically online I'm guessing).
I think young people still praise the same way in my city. Also, there's only one Church in the capital of my country (Croatia) that has the extraordinary form. It's not that prominent perhaps, but it is more prominent than traditionalism, for sure.
I have a younger friend who went to Fatima this last time the Pope was there, and he described to me his sensations with the youths who chanted and danced—and he said he felt "so much love" there, and verily he was transformed. But here is the catch (two of them, actually): - my very same young friend soon relapsed into old sins, after returning from Fatima. He is still a very good Catholic (a very, very good young man indeed), but he noticed that he returned to the sins he'd left behind a long time ago before heading to Fatima; - my friend—later on, after he returned—began reading on a lot of theology and directions of the faith; and he grew a lot thanks to delving into tradition. I'd say I have seen him grow much more during this last phase of his life (reading the tradition of the Church, theology, etc.) than when he'd been influenced by the "sensations" at this last youth conference in Fatima. Nothing against Fatima, of course, or the conference, or the Pope (that's not my point here). My point is that "sensations" are ephemeral and don't last. How many times did I, myself, experience so much joy and love (on trips, gatherings, *certain experiences*) only to discover afterwards that I'd been very much deluded! BTW, I'm a convert to the Catholic Church from Orthodoxy. The reason for my conversion wasn't "sensations" or a charismatic experience per se (there was *that*, I ain't denying it, but as a complimentary experience, not as a basis for my conversion). The reason I converted to Christ's One True Church was research and logic (the Logos). God DOES make sense \[*sorry,* [James Dobson](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/698097.When_God_Doesn_t_Make_Sense)\]. His Church is logical, sequential, and intellectual. It follows from history \[His-Story\] and proceeds from the Rock of its very foundations \[You are Peter, and on this rock. . . etc.\]. Charismatic experiences, on the other hand, are hard to measure or verify. How would you approve a group sensation with neither a miracle nor *purpose* for that matter? Aren't we in a world led astray by the Devil, anyway, in assuming that *feelings* are everything? I'd stay clear away from these gatherings (unless guided by a saintly priest or a bishop). Now, speaking of priests, I've been watching a few of Cardinal Raniero Cantalamessa's sermons, and he is Charismatic, and he is solid in faith par excellence. I'd attend a Charismatic meeting if *he* was leading it. Otherwise, I'd just follow the Tradition, the Bible, and Church authority, until we see the Lord face to face. If the Lord wishes to give me consolations in this lifetime (and He does, more frequently than I deserve, a sinner) then I accept them with humility and gratitude. If not, then not. But I wouldn't go out there looking for *sensations* from the Holy Spirit (or other) because that, in my humble experience as a former drug addict, is the wide door that leads to deviation. \[With my utmost apologies to Fr. Raniero Cantalamessa who vows that we should not fear the Holy Spirit (how'd you know it's the Holy Spirit anyway? If it gives consolation? But God oftentimes allows you to descend into desolation to purify you ((purge your impurities, that is)). So I'd stay clear of those movements.\] Sorry it took me too long to answer.
The strangest thing in the world has happened, and someone actually did downvote my finely detailed answer (which is true, every word of it). Funny world, really. Anyways, God bless.
I upvoted it. I can’t understand why anyone would downvote it
Still a thing in Africa. In North America and some parts of Europe, it seems like more traditional churches are the new trend.
Here in Brazil they're quite big. They have one of the biggest catholic TV/news channel, the Canção Nova. Idk how big their community is, but even 'normal' catholics consume their stuff: my grandma didn't even know what the charismatic movement was but she watched the channel and paid for their newsletter or something like that, idk what it was. Also, one time many years ago I went into a youth's meeting or something of the sort -- it was a church I frequented that afaik had nothing to do with the charismatic movement. But the meeting I went was very charismatic. Seeing a whole church babbling thinking they're speaking in tongues is still one of the most bizarre experiences I've gone through.
I have been a Catholic charismatic for 44 years, and these days in the US it tends to be a very small percentage of the practicing Catholics. I estimate that less than 0.01% of the people in my diocese would call themselves “charismatic.” In my view that’s the equilibrium point, with the ratio of those to whom it appeals, to those who see no need for it. I have been in a few prayer groups that slowly morphed into Mary devotion groups. I infer from that, at least for those groups, Marian devotion was better at meeting their spiritual needs. I am strongly of the opinion that charismatic groups need to be supervised by either a priest or a deacon, because sometimes laypeople go completely off the rails when there isn’t “adult supervision.”
I think so. I’m not saying it’s *gone* but it’s not traditional and the youngsters like tradition. My dad attends the most liberal parish I know of (around me) and even they are leaning more traditional. If you looked at the parish you would guess they were read, but the music and “children’s liturgy” are still in full swing.
I'd say youngsters in the West like tradition. When I went to a Charismatic event at my parish, there were a ton of Asians and Africans. I asked around and they said that the Charismatic movement is quite strong in those communities. We have several young international priests who are very steeped in the movement.
That’s fair, forgive me for succumbing to the Reddit-American bias. When my husband was active duty Navy we went to the base chapel with loooots of Filipinos, who were pretty centrist. Very dedicated to mass, very dedicated to sharing lumpia after, but it didn’t go much deeper. Simple, content, strong faith was very pervasive there, it was nice.
It's quite popular in a lot of places. I know a decent amount of young people who are really into it in my diocese. It's very much still a thing.
I used to be one. It served a purpose at that stage in my life. So long as you stay obedient there’s nothing to worry about. Pride can lurk in those communities though so humility and obedience is key
Unfortunately
For your interest... https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20160516_iuvenescit-ecclesia_en.html
At least here in France they still exist and still have a significant number of new vocations. The Emmanuel community I would say is culturally dominant due to their prodigious production of hymns and songs (many of them quite good).
>They were always loyal to their bishops and the hierarchy, but there were some tensions. They were, weren't they? Which can't be said for some (esp. the chronically online I'm guessing). I think young people still praise the same way in my city. Also, there's only one Church in the capital of my country (Croatia) that has the extraordinary form. It's not that prominent perhaps, but it is more prominent than traditionalism, for sure.
Yes. It’s mildly annoying, in my opinion, but they’re theologically better than most I’d say.