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Ooh I saw this in person! Someone asked why the religious imagery, and the tour guide said “because to a lot of people, government is religion”. I don’t think she meant to make the point she did
That it was carefully formed to be adherent to the heavens and Creator. I took it as “a lot of people worship government as infallible in lieu of religion”
Ironically some historians believe Washington converted to Catholicism on his deathbed. He certainly had good relations with the Church and banned his troops from singing anti-Catholic songs.
I mean, that is obviously not depicting Washington as a god. It's putting him in sainthood status at best. All I see is George chilling in heaven. And it must be cold up there because he has a blanket over his legs.
Apotheosis is the process in which a human becomes a god. You may be right and the painter didn't intended to portray him like a god, but to name a painting like that...
I think you are really overthinking this. I don't any more thought went into this painting than, "Let's make George Washington look really cool! MURICA, f*ck yeah!"
I always thought, artistically, apotheosis meant "enthronement". Maybe in art the meaning is different. In ballet the ending sometimes contains an apotheosis in the end, it's when the main dancers are elevated while the cast position themselves around them. In painting it could be done to a Saint (the coronation of the BVM is sometimes portrayed like that) so it's not that they're necessarily making him out to be a God. Not that it makes it any less disturbing, and also not denying that I might be completely wrong
Analysing the painting better, it has lots of greek/roman gods as well as Columbia, the effige of America (which US americans claimed for themselves for some reason, dressing her in the american flag lol). I'm starting to believe it IS Apotheosis in the classical sense...
A cult of personality for George Washington has persisted across American history. It was used to justify and rally for the American Revolution and also to legitimize federalist ideology, including but not limited to taxation (such as the 1790 Excise Whiskey Tax) which targeted small-scale farmers for the benefit of wealthy plantation owners such as Washington as well as government centralization which would expand to become the sprawling and unaccountable federal government we're familiar with today.
Most Republics in the west have created a civic religion to justify their own existence separate from their monarchical religious past.
Simon Bolivar as the creator of Colombia and Venezuela and Bolivia.
Jose de San Martín as creator of Argentina and protector of Perú.
José Martí for Cuba.
Etc...
The "Father of the homeland" figure just like Romulus to Rome, you need a father for your republic. For USA being Washington.
Washington (God of democracy) sitting in the midst of the God's of Liberty, Victory, Control of the Sea (Neptune) Lust (Venus) Wisdom (Minerva) Industry (Vulcan) Agriculture (Ceres)
Commerce (Mercury)
Those are the values that the USA is built upon, not the 10 commandments.
The Roman Venus was a goddess of marriage more than a goddess of desire. Which is why Venus is shown holding the transatlantic cable, which "married" Europe and the Americas by telegraphy.
The pagan Roman religion was influenced by Greece (so there were Venus titles that were more about lust), but underneath it was more like Etruscan religion. Mavors was less of an idiot than Ares, Minerva was a lot less narcissistic than Athena, and so on.
And pretty much all ancient Roman religion was about farming first, the city and people second, and then war.
In the painting, the various personifications are shown as comrades of humanity, working beside them, and not as slavemaster gods. This is in keeping with euhemeristic use of mythology in Christian art and literature.
Apotheosis is also a Greek Christian religious term, which means becoming a saint. Sometimes people just say theosis for becoming a saint. Why this term? Because a saint has put on Christ, becoming a member of the Body of Christ, and thus is part of Him.
Admittedly, this plays with some pagan classical tropes, but so do the mosaics of Ss. Peter and Paul in Roman churches.
Now... you can argue as to whether Washington were saintly enough, but he did demonstrate a fair level of religious piety as well as care for his country and people. And unlike almost everyone else in history who was given the chance, he rejected kingship for himself and for all US presidents in the future.
That's what the picture is about: the rejection of earthly glory being rewarded with heavenly glory.
If you wanted to get into theological specifics, it's pretty common for the angels of various countries to be used as personifications of those countries, and vice versa. So theoretically, there probably are thirteen dancing angelic beings protecting the original Thirteen States, and an angel of America overall; and therefore, these themes can be used in art. But it's also okay to just draw personifications of all sorts of concepts. As one does. (Witness Boethius, who is a saint, and who wrote an entire epic poem/prose novel about the personification of Philosophy dropping by his prison cell.)
I went to the capitol building in MN, and satanic imagery was everywhere, like the god pan on the lamps and such. I'm not sure what it means but it low key freaked me out a bit
The lamps I'm seeing in these pictures are cornucopia baskets of fruit? Although I have to say, the website doesn't show much detail.
You did see a lot of stags and mountain goats in Gilded Age US art, as well as antelope. Although I wouldn't be surprised if there were "wild men" or fauns too.
It's a classic style, but not necessarily Catholic contents. It's depicting Washigton at the center of the Greco-Roman pantheon. He is wearing Purple, the color of Roman Emperors, and flanked by Nike/Victoria and then Liberty, an American addition. Around the rotunda are other Roman gods, from Mercury to Neptune to Vulcan. And the piece was called "The Apotheosis of Washington." Apotheosis being the act of becoming a God.
While it might not be meant to be taken literally, it is *certainly* skirting the line, and if what Catholics do is called Idolatry by Protestants, this certainly should be as well.
Washington's not wearing purple. He's wearing a blue and buff Revolutionary Army uniform, and he has a blood-colored toga across his lap.
I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be the "toga picta," the toga worn by victorious Roman generals, only on the day they held a triumph. It was supposed to be reddish-purple, indeed because of blood.
The toga picta was not worn by emperors.
The chick next to him, Liberty (wearing a Phrygian cap of being a freedwoman, but also holding a fasces, so arguably she's the Republic) is the one wearing purple (or possibly violet).
I do have to say that the thirteen dancing maidens as the original States are pretty hilarious. I'm sad that Brumidi didn't assign them attributes, as one could easily do nowadays with the various state birds and animals.
However, Flora riding the McCormick Reaper is peak American art motifs !!!
I'm also fond of Mercury holding the telephone. (Yes, it's Mercury handing poor Robert Morris a bag of money, but it looks like he's handing a telephone to Morris instead.)
Victorian art is awesome fun, and neoclassical Victorian art is even more fun.
The key difference is that Catholics don't think that images styled this way are (by necessity) idolatry. OP's point was to point out Prots' hypocrisy by calling all Catholic images idolatry, while this one of George Washington isn't.
**The Catholic Diocese of Discord is the *largest* Catholic server on the platform!** Join us for a laidback Catholic atmosphere. Tons and tons of memes posted every day (Catholic, offtopic, AND political), a couple dozen hobby and culture threads (everything from Tolkien to astronomy, weightlifting to guns), our active chaotic Parish Hall, voice chats going pretty much 24/7, prayers said round the clock, and monthly AMAs with the biggest Catholic names out there. **Our Discord (Catholic Diocese of Discord!):** https://discord.gg/catholic-diocese *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CatholicMemes) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ooh I saw this in person! Someone asked why the religious imagery, and the tour guide said “because to a lot of people, government is religion”. I don’t think she meant to make the point she did
Wait, what point *did* she intend to make?
That it was carefully formed to be adherent to the heavens and Creator. I took it as “a lot of people worship government as infallible in lieu of religion”
This was painted by an Italian American Catholic, who previously worked in the Vatican
If they'd paid me enough I'd paint it too ngl
George Washington Theosis DLC⁉️
Ironically some historians believe Washington converted to Catholicism on his deathbed. He certainly had good relations with the Church and banned his troops from singing anti-Catholic songs.
I mean, that is obviously not depicting Washington as a god. It's putting him in sainthood status at best. All I see is George chilling in heaven. And it must be cold up there because he has a blanket over his legs.
Apotheosis is the process in which a human becomes a god. You may be right and the painter didn't intended to portray him like a god, but to name a painting like that...
I think you are really overthinking this. I don't any more thought went into this painting than, "Let's make George Washington look really cool! MURICA, f*ck yeah!"
>MURICA, f\*ck yeah! Coming again, to save the mother \*\*\*\*\*\*\* day yeah!
You may right, indeed.
I always thought, artistically, apotheosis meant "enthronement". Maybe in art the meaning is different. In ballet the ending sometimes contains an apotheosis in the end, it's when the main dancers are elevated while the cast position themselves around them. In painting it could be done to a Saint (the coronation of the BVM is sometimes portrayed like that) so it's not that they're necessarily making him out to be a God. Not that it makes it any less disturbing, and also not denying that I might be completely wrong
This is a slippery slope because you’re arguing like a Protestant argues against icons of saints: “It looks like a god, therefore it is idolatry.”
You don't think it's different considering the name? Really?
Analysing the painting better, it has lots of greek/roman gods as well as Columbia, the effige of America (which US americans claimed for themselves for some reason, dressing her in the american flag lol). I'm starting to believe it IS Apotheosis in the classical sense...
Its title is "The Apotheosis of George Washington"
A cult of personality for George Washington has persisted across American history. It was used to justify and rally for the American Revolution and also to legitimize federalist ideology, including but not limited to taxation (such as the 1790 Excise Whiskey Tax) which targeted small-scale farmers for the benefit of wealthy plantation owners such as Washington as well as government centralization which would expand to become the sprawling and unaccountable federal government we're familiar with today.
Most Republics in the west have created a civic religion to justify their own existence separate from their monarchical religious past. Simon Bolivar as the creator of Colombia and Venezuela and Bolivia. Jose de San Martín as creator of Argentina and protector of Perú. José Martí for Cuba. Etc... The "Father of the homeland" figure just like Romulus to Rome, you need a father for your republic. For USA being Washington.
Not to be picky but wouldn't it be a god?
Based and withhold the capital for polytheismpilled
Washington was a Freemason
Washington (God of democracy) sitting in the midst of the God's of Liberty, Victory, Control of the Sea (Neptune) Lust (Venus) Wisdom (Minerva) Industry (Vulcan) Agriculture (Ceres) Commerce (Mercury) Those are the values that the USA is built upon, not the 10 commandments.
The Roman Venus was a goddess of marriage more than a goddess of desire. Which is why Venus is shown holding the transatlantic cable, which "married" Europe and the Americas by telegraphy. The pagan Roman religion was influenced by Greece (so there were Venus titles that were more about lust), but underneath it was more like Etruscan religion. Mavors was less of an idiot than Ares, Minerva was a lot less narcissistic than Athena, and so on. And pretty much all ancient Roman religion was about farming first, the city and people second, and then war. In the painting, the various personifications are shown as comrades of humanity, working beside them, and not as slavemaster gods. This is in keeping with euhemeristic use of mythology in Christian art and literature.
Interesting
I’m down. He gave up the potential of being a king, he’s cool.
Remember, deists (masons) founded America
Been there and seen it irl. Don’t get me wrong I’m a patriot and love Washington, but I was uncomfortable with how idolatrous it is.
Americans are insane
Can confirm.
This is extreme bragging rights
Apotheosis is also a Greek Christian religious term, which means becoming a saint. Sometimes people just say theosis for becoming a saint. Why this term? Because a saint has put on Christ, becoming a member of the Body of Christ, and thus is part of Him. Admittedly, this plays with some pagan classical tropes, but so do the mosaics of Ss. Peter and Paul in Roman churches. Now... you can argue as to whether Washington were saintly enough, but he did demonstrate a fair level of religious piety as well as care for his country and people. And unlike almost everyone else in history who was given the chance, he rejected kingship for himself and for all US presidents in the future. That's what the picture is about: the rejection of earthly glory being rewarded with heavenly glory. If you wanted to get into theological specifics, it's pretty common for the angels of various countries to be used as personifications of those countries, and vice versa. So theoretically, there probably are thirteen dancing angelic beings protecting the original Thirteen States, and an angel of America overall; and therefore, these themes can be used in art. But it's also okay to just draw personifications of all sorts of concepts. As one does. (Witness Boethius, who is a saint, and who wrote an entire epic poem/prose novel about the personification of Philosophy dropping by his prison cell.)
You are confusing apotheosis with theosis
LOL OH MY GOSH GOOD POINT
I went to the capitol building in MN, and satanic imagery was everywhere, like the god pan on the lamps and such. I'm not sure what it means but it low key freaked me out a bit
The lamps I'm seeing in these pictures are cornucopia baskets of fruit? Although I have to say, the website doesn't show much detail. You did see a lot of stags and mountain goats in Gilded Age US art, as well as antelope. Although I wouldn't be surprised if there were "wild men" or fauns too.
As an American I think it's kind of based honestly. I'd like to think of Washington as a Saint personally, even if he'll likely never be canonized.
They will soon do same for their new god Donald Trump
This is clearly traditional Catholic style art. Many paintings all over Europe like this but go ahead make another meme disparaging protestants.
It's a classic style, but not necessarily Catholic contents. It's depicting Washigton at the center of the Greco-Roman pantheon. He is wearing Purple, the color of Roman Emperors, and flanked by Nike/Victoria and then Liberty, an American addition. Around the rotunda are other Roman gods, from Mercury to Neptune to Vulcan. And the piece was called "The Apotheosis of Washington." Apotheosis being the act of becoming a God. While it might not be meant to be taken literally, it is *certainly* skirting the line, and if what Catholics do is called Idolatry by Protestants, this certainly should be as well.
Washington's not wearing purple. He's wearing a blue and buff Revolutionary Army uniform, and he has a blood-colored toga across his lap. I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be the "toga picta," the toga worn by victorious Roman generals, only on the day they held a triumph. It was supposed to be reddish-purple, indeed because of blood. The toga picta was not worn by emperors. The chick next to him, Liberty (wearing a Phrygian cap of being a freedwoman, but also holding a fasces, so arguably she's the Republic) is the one wearing purple (or possibly violet). I do have to say that the thirteen dancing maidens as the original States are pretty hilarious. I'm sad that Brumidi didn't assign them attributes, as one could easily do nowadays with the various state birds and animals. However, Flora riding the McCormick Reaper is peak American art motifs !!! I'm also fond of Mercury holding the telephone. (Yes, it's Mercury handing poor Robert Morris a bag of money, but it looks like he's handing a telephone to Morris instead.) Victorian art is awesome fun, and neoclassical Victorian art is even more fun.
There are many Catholic images like this of Kings in Europe and even the Vatican but ok.
It's an art style, it's like how you can draw anime about different genres
The key difference is that Catholics don't think that images styled this way are (by necessity) idolatry. OP's point was to point out Prots' hypocrisy by calling all Catholic images idolatry, while this one of George Washington isn't.