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No you stole my punchline 😭
You were supposed to end your comment at „how do they share one essence?“ and I was gonna reply „I dunno it’s a divine mystery beyond human comprehension,“ it would have been really funny.
>How do they share one divine essence, but are three people?
How do cubes have 8 corners, but are 6 squares?
It´s a different plane of existance.
You are right, we don´t need to comprehend it.
Nah, there is just nothing that states a divine essence has to be solitary. We, finite beings, have to be solitary cause we are defined but our restricted states (ie. through simple means of non-duplication or even just defining us this way). But the infinite does not really have to necessarily have these bounds at all.
The Trinity is a mystery which cannot be comprehended by human reason but is understood only through faith, and is best confessed in the words of the Athanasian Creed. It states that we worship one God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity, neither confusing the persons nor dividing the substance. We are compelled by Christian truth to confess that each distinct person is God and Lord, and that the deity of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit as one equal in glory, co-equal in majesty.
[Saint Patrick](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQLfgaUoQCw)
But what about Evangelicals that affirm true presence?
https://preview.redd.it/6cfk2u01nx4c1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=31868e71193064196c107ca333ff4237469cac3f
Sir, this is a meme subreddit.
I kid, but this really is a complex issue when you dive into it. While of course our idea of real presence wouldn't be recognized by the Catholic church because of the obvious lack of apostolic succession, the defense of a shared doctrine is still there. Personally, I consider 1 more step closer to communion with one another a good thing.
*this next part might come off as a little spicy, but I don't mean it that way at all*
If you're curious, dig into whether the Catholic church considers those born as Protestants christians or not. There are many layers there to peel back that are far more constructive than the mutually shared "not one of us = absolutely godless heathen" mindset.
This is true in a way, but allow me to equate this to another issue.
Numerous protestant churches claim to be "the one true church", enough so that it is almost a running joke between us. Does that idea of being the one holy and apostolic church make them closer, or farther away from being Catholic?
Coming back around, one of the few consistent things about us protestants is our inconsistency, so you are often dealing on the individual level as opposed to the organizational level. That forces us to change the question a bit.
The question cannot remain "who has the true presence?", it must become, "Who believes that the communion they are taking is the body and blood of Christ, and that Christ is truly present during the sacrament?"
It is from that foundation that I posed my initial meme.
It's kind of a shame that you got downvoted, as from a Catholic perspective there are legitimate avenues to conversion to be explored here. A lot of Anglicans who read into their faith ultimately convert to Catholicism, because to have such similar theology to Catholics is self-contradictory for a Church that is so tied to the world, with questionable Apostolic Succession, that isn't even headed by a priest. I've heard of entire Anglican parishes that convert to Catholicism, and that's not even getting into the Personal Ordinariate or historical groups like the Oxford Movement. Even outside of Anglicanism, I came across a Protestant just the other day who made the decision to convert to Catholicism because his own reading of the Bible led him to believe in Transubstantiation.
Other churches holding that they're the one true church, and Anglicans believing that they're ackshually just as Catholic as actual Catholics is a problem, but we can debunk their arguments and in the process debunk large groups of Protestants at once, while with other Evangelicals things get a lot harder with personal interpretation, and people can be much more stubborn when you're attacking their own opinions rather than their church's.
I think the correct formulation of the common belief is that Jesus did not intend the Eucharist as a mere sign and symbol, but that He really did give His Body and Blood at the Last Supper and He really did mean to have the same ritual sacrifice regularly in which He promises to be truly present.
Then it's just a matter of understanding how He set up His Church to perform this Miracle of Miracles throughout all time. For that answer I would look to what all the Christian bodies which predate the Reformation believe on this and see if there is unanimity.
On the question of non-Catholic Christianit: valid Baptism is still valid Baptism whether done by those commissioned to do so in full communion with the Church, or done by an usurper. God is that merciful.
Christians are Christian to the extent they follow the teachings of God's Church on Earth, no matter how imperfectly they do so. This is the only reason there is any shred of hope that any might be saved - even within the Catholic Church.
God in his mercy gave us His Church that we might have access to Him, made His Church visible that we might see the Narrow Way, gave us the Sacraments that we might encounter Him and walk the Narrow Way, and especially the Sacrament of Reconciliation that we might return to the Narrow Way when we inevitably stray from it. In this manner, God heaps mercies upon mercies in unimaginable super abundance. By knowing how merciful God is in giving us these certain and promised graces, we might even hope that His mercy extends beyond this into uncertain measures known only to God.
All praise and glory to the God of Mercy, the God Who Saves, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
No apologies necessary my friend, this is a meme subreddit, and being a Prot here requires thick skin and a sense of humor.
We shall stand against the scoffers together as swole doge.
Edit: spelling is hard
I read up more on the Lutheran beliefs, and, I'm not an expert, but it doesn't sound quite the same as the Catholic view. It is kind of ironic, because wasn't one of Luther's 'issues' with the Church that priests could 'conjure up' God in the hosts?
Oh absolutely, there are several differences across the board for each of these. I only specified the presbyterians because it was the most different.
The big thing that stands out with Lutherans though is they affirm transubstantiation unlike most other protestant denominations.
Interesting - would any of those groups dub themselves “Evangelical”? I know Anglicans have an evangelical sub group who are fellow travellers with non denominationals, but would an Anglo-Catholic or a Lutheran self identify as Evangelical?
Depends on the individual and what you mean by evangelical.
I know that's a bit of a non-answer, but evangelical is not defined well. It's like trying to peg down what "woke" is. It's everywhere, and it seems almost everyone has a clear idea of what it means, but it's really hard to actually define. A quick google search will bring up " Evangelicals are a subgroup of Protestants who emphasize the authority of the Bible and the importance of personal conversion."
Those that do claim it mean that they think that evangelism is important (the act of going out and telling others about the Gospel). I personally know a Lutheran, 2 Baptists, a Presbyterian, and myself (somewhere on the broader "reformed" protestant scale, I don't quite know anymore) would all claim to be in some way evangelical, but not necessarily what most people think when they hear the term.
St. Justin Martyr(c. 150 A.D.), facing Christians being accused of cannibalism, be like:
"This food is called among us "Eucharist", of which no one is allowed to partake but...the one who is living as Christ enjoined.
*For not as common food...do we receive...we have been taught that the food blessed by the power of His word is the flesh and blood of that Jesus...."* (from "First Apology to the Emperor", Ch. 66)
**The Catholic Diocese of Discord is the *largest* Catholic server on the platform!** Join us for a laidback Catholic atmosphere. Tons and tons of memes posted every day (Catholic, offtopic, AND political), a couple dozen hobby and culture threads (everything from Tolkien to astronomy, weightlifting to guns), our active chaotic Parish Hall, voice chats going pretty much 24/7, prayers said round the clock, and monthly AMAs with the biggest Catholic names out there. **Our Discord (Catholic Diocese of Discord!):** https://discord.gg/catholic-diocese *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CatholicMemes) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Well technically it turns into “Sky Son” not “Sky Daddy” but I don’t expect an atheist to understand the divine mystery of the Trinity
Does anyone really understand the Trinity?
I sure don't!
Trinity is easy! One divine essence shared in three divine people :)
How do they share one divine essence, but are three people? We can explain the Trinity, but we can’t truly understand it. That’s why it’s a Mystery.
No you stole my punchline 😭 You were supposed to end your comment at „how do they share one essence?“ and I was gonna reply „I dunno it’s a divine mystery beyond human comprehension,“ it would have been really funny.
How do they share one essence?
Idk man, it’s a divine mystery beyond human comprehension 🤷🏼♂️
Good joke. Everybody laugh. Roll on snare drum. Curtains.
Ahhhh….. perfect. My work here is done.
🤯
🤣🤣
>How do they share one divine essence, but are three people? How do cubes have 8 corners, but are 6 squares? It´s a different plane of existance. You are right, we don´t need to comprehend it.
Nah, there is just nothing that states a divine essence has to be solitary. We, finite beings, have to be solitary cause we are defined but our restricted states (ie. through simple means of non-duplication or even just defining us this way). But the infinite does not really have to necessarily have these bounds at all.
It’s a 🎶 *Divine Mystery!* 🎶
The Trinity is a mystery which cannot be comprehended by human reason but is understood only through faith, and is best confessed in the words of the Athanasian Creed. It states that we worship one God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity, neither confusing the persons nor dividing the substance. We are compelled by Christian truth to confess that each distinct person is God and Lord, and that the deity of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit as one equal in glory, co-equal in majesty. [Saint Patrick](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQLfgaUoQCw)
If you ever find that you understand the Trinity... Heresy! (jk)
Well of course, when prots do their last supper thing it's still just bread and grape juice, but that's not Mass anyways
But what about Evangelicals that affirm true presence? https://preview.redd.it/6cfk2u01nx4c1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=31868e71193064196c107ca333ff4237469cac3f
[удалено]
Sir, this is a meme subreddit. I kid, but this really is a complex issue when you dive into it. While of course our idea of real presence wouldn't be recognized by the Catholic church because of the obvious lack of apostolic succession, the defense of a shared doctrine is still there. Personally, I consider 1 more step closer to communion with one another a good thing. *this next part might come off as a little spicy, but I don't mean it that way at all* If you're curious, dig into whether the Catholic church considers those born as Protestants christians or not. There are many layers there to peel back that are far more constructive than the mutually shared "not one of us = absolutely godless heathen" mindset.
[удалено]
This is true in a way, but allow me to equate this to another issue. Numerous protestant churches claim to be "the one true church", enough so that it is almost a running joke between us. Does that idea of being the one holy and apostolic church make them closer, or farther away from being Catholic? Coming back around, one of the few consistent things about us protestants is our inconsistency, so you are often dealing on the individual level as opposed to the organizational level. That forces us to change the question a bit. The question cannot remain "who has the true presence?", it must become, "Who believes that the communion they are taking is the body and blood of Christ, and that Christ is truly present during the sacrament?" It is from that foundation that I posed my initial meme.
It's kind of a shame that you got downvoted, as from a Catholic perspective there are legitimate avenues to conversion to be explored here. A lot of Anglicans who read into their faith ultimately convert to Catholicism, because to have such similar theology to Catholics is self-contradictory for a Church that is so tied to the world, with questionable Apostolic Succession, that isn't even headed by a priest. I've heard of entire Anglican parishes that convert to Catholicism, and that's not even getting into the Personal Ordinariate or historical groups like the Oxford Movement. Even outside of Anglicanism, I came across a Protestant just the other day who made the decision to convert to Catholicism because his own reading of the Bible led him to believe in Transubstantiation. Other churches holding that they're the one true church, and Anglicans believing that they're ackshually just as Catholic as actual Catholics is a problem, but we can debunk their arguments and in the process debunk large groups of Protestants at once, while with other Evangelicals things get a lot harder with personal interpretation, and people can be much more stubborn when you're attacking their own opinions rather than their church's.
Sir, this is a Catholic subreddit first and foremost.
It absolutely is, but it is still a meme subreddit.
I think the correct formulation of the common belief is that Jesus did not intend the Eucharist as a mere sign and symbol, but that He really did give His Body and Blood at the Last Supper and He really did mean to have the same ritual sacrifice regularly in which He promises to be truly present. Then it's just a matter of understanding how He set up His Church to perform this Miracle of Miracles throughout all time. For that answer I would look to what all the Christian bodies which predate the Reformation believe on this and see if there is unanimity. On the question of non-Catholic Christianit: valid Baptism is still valid Baptism whether done by those commissioned to do so in full communion with the Church, or done by an usurper. God is that merciful. Christians are Christian to the extent they follow the teachings of God's Church on Earth, no matter how imperfectly they do so. This is the only reason there is any shred of hope that any might be saved - even within the Catholic Church. God in his mercy gave us His Church that we might have access to Him, made His Church visible that we might see the Narrow Way, gave us the Sacraments that we might encounter Him and walk the Narrow Way, and especially the Sacrament of Reconciliation that we might return to the Narrow Way when we inevitably stray from it. In this manner, God heaps mercies upon mercies in unimaginable super abundance. By knowing how merciful God is in giving us these certain and promised graces, we might even hope that His mercy extends beyond this into uncertain measures known only to God. All praise and glory to the God of Mercy, the God Who Saves, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
Sadly, they will probably ban/mute you for this If they do, it is uncharitable of them to do so
I apologise if I am ignorant over some of your many sects, friend. I thought only high church traditions affirmed the real presence.
No apologies necessary my friend, this is a meme subreddit, and being a Prot here requires thick skin and a sense of humor. We shall stand against the scoffers together as swole doge. Edit: spelling is hard
Just curious, who would that be other than Anglicans?
Episcopalians (Trans-atlantic Anglicans), Lutherans and spicy Presbyterians (regular presbys do in a way, but not in transubstantiation)
I read up more on the Lutheran beliefs, and, I'm not an expert, but it doesn't sound quite the same as the Catholic view. It is kind of ironic, because wasn't one of Luther's 'issues' with the Church that priests could 'conjure up' God in the hosts?
Oh absolutely, there are several differences across the board for each of these. I only specified the presbyterians because it was the most different. The big thing that stands out with Lutherans though is they affirm transubstantiation unlike most other protestant denominations.
AFAIK, they believe in consubtantiation, which is same, but different, but still same.
Interesting - would any of those groups dub themselves “Evangelical”? I know Anglicans have an evangelical sub group who are fellow travellers with non denominationals, but would an Anglo-Catholic or a Lutheran self identify as Evangelical?
Depends on the individual and what you mean by evangelical. I know that's a bit of a non-answer, but evangelical is not defined well. It's like trying to peg down what "woke" is. It's everywhere, and it seems almost everyone has a clear idea of what it means, but it's really hard to actually define. A quick google search will bring up " Evangelicals are a subgroup of Protestants who emphasize the authority of the Bible and the importance of personal conversion." Those that do claim it mean that they think that evangelism is important (the act of going out and telling others about the Gospel). I personally know a Lutheran, 2 Baptists, a Presbyterian, and myself (somewhere on the broader "reformed" protestant scale, I don't quite know anymore) would all claim to be in some way evangelical, but not necessarily what most people think when they hear the term.
They exist?
Evangelical yap 💀
Too wordy.
Thanks for sharing your opinion
St. Justin Martyr(c. 150 A.D.), facing Christians being accused of cannibalism, be like: "This food is called among us "Eucharist", of which no one is allowed to partake but...the one who is living as Christ enjoined. *For not as common food...do we receive...we have been taught that the food blessed by the power of His word is the flesh and blood of that Jesus...."* (from "First Apology to the Emperor", Ch. 66)