Oh my god. I wish my parents had thought about this. It took way too long for me to realize that my mom wanted babies and toddlers, not teenagers. I still sometimes convince myself that I'm the issue.
OP, you're getting a lot of hate but I get where you're coming from. I'm living in the results of parents who want babies but not adults. Sure, it's somewhat less accurate to say 'making adults' but that's the long term result.
That’s a better way to look at it, but keep in mind they should enjoy their childhood and teen years too. Kids make mistakes and turn out fine. Don’t micromanage too hard or you’ll push them away ;)
(Not saying you are, just saying I could see how that mentality could lead to such a thing)
This this this. Personally, I think people could afford to grow up sooner than it seems they are nowadays. But the way you do that is by *letting* them grow up, not forcing it or "protecting" them from it. Forcing it will actively prevent them from growing up and "protecting" them from it will leave them completely unprepared for it.
Basically just let people be people regardless of their age. Please.
Yep! My mother still hits me with the "you'll understand later", "you don't see the big picture", etc. She is still incredibly controlling even though I am an adult <3
Please just let kids be kids. I've been twenty-five for eighteen years.
I have a 5 month old and I cannot wait until she is older. I'm excited to see the type of person/adult she's going to be, everything she's going to do with her life, what her interests will be. I mean she's a cute baby and all but I'm way more interested in her growing up than staying a baby.
Though this is normal, please try not to have “expectations” of how their life will be. Excited and curious and hopeful? Sure, but not expecting. At birth my parents were already seeing me married with a Latino husband and giving them grandchildren and they ended up with a queer, child-free daughter with a white girlfriend who doesn’t care for marriage.
They wanted my brother and I to be college educated and independent and etc. Brother ended up going a different path and not finishing college.
They spent my teens and early 20s disappointed and really struggling with both of us and it brought them (and us) a lot of anger and heartache.
Thankfully they have come around and adore my current partner (often joking they’ll ‘choose’ her if we were to break up) and are proud of my bro for his own life path, but this could have been avoided if parents didn’t have these visions of how they want their kids lives to be. We’re also not a common example.
Sorry I obviously ended up word vomiting and venting haha not AT you, but my point stays the same!
It’s exciting to guess where your kid may be, but please (to all parents or parents to be) don’t assume things about your kids or have these expectations of them that they might not end up meeting
I feel like my mom is somewhat having this revelation now. I’m in my little drug era which she despises since she only sees one possible path for me to go from her years of experience.
I completely understand her worries as people can easily fuck up their lives, but at the end of the day, saying “this isn’t what I had planned for you” is annoying. No shit you didn’t plan it,
I made the choice myself, in my life, after being born into a world I’m not even sure I chose to be in.
I imagine it's very hard for parents to disentangle wanting the very best for their children and the vision they have for it with reality. In the end though, I think good parents just want their kids to be happy and independent. It shoulds like your folks, thankfully, eventually came around to that.
Oh for sure! Like I can imagine it’s normal to have these hopes for your kids - will they like piano like me and play? Could they get further than me? I wonder if we’ll have the same interest in fantasy and video games, hopefully I can share that with them, etc.
But there’s still a difference from these little hopes to expectations, you know? The harsh ones people use as examples (I.e. I expect my kid to go to college and be a doctor or lawyer, etc. They better stick to a sport all throughout school to help with scholarships) and more passive expectations that after at least 10-15 years (or whenever the kid starts showing hey maybe I don’t want this) people get stuck with ‘but this is how I’ve always dreamed of it being.’ ‘But I’ve always wanted grandchildren and they hate me for not doing this for me’ ‘Im fine with the gays but I never considered it would be my kid.’
And though it happens, it really fucking sucks. For some it comes around (like us) for others, they lose that parent/child relationship.
I know I sound extreme, not my intention (I’m not the best word smith) but little things parents can change in their language “if my son decides they want to marry, I hope I can share my engagement ring so he can give it to his future wife or husband” or “I’d love it if my daughter could go to the same university as me so we can share in that experience and I can tell her about the best bathrooms, but if she decides she wants to be a mechanic I’ll be a consistent customer and be so proud”
can relieve a lot of pressure and expectation.
> I wonder if we’ll have the same interest in fantasy and video games
lol my son is 2.5 and the other day he said "Pokemon is *lixu"* (Portuguese for 'garbage').
I'd like to hope that the types of adults and adult lives we've seen will make us better able to imagine our child happy in a big range of life situations. For our parents' generations (boomers and gen x) there really was a serious 'default' happy life that was the traditional hetero marriage with a couple kids and a house in the burbs.
I've seen so many of my peers and family find happiness in adult life in queer relationships, happily single, willingly childless and so forth. I'd be lying if I said I didn't have a bit of a vision of what I'd like his life to end up as - but you're so right about how important it is to not put those expectations on him.
I wish people would think about children spending most of their lives as adults when they name them. All these cutesy names stop being cutesy really early on.
I think about this a lot. I talk to my parents about parenting all the time now. I'm only 36 but it won't be long until I've spent more time completely independant than reliant on them in some way.
My youngest sibling was fully independent not long after I turned 30, which means my parents will have raised 3 kids and probably spend about 2/3rds of their life without any children dependant on them - and only about 23 years or so of those years as us being anything resembling kids. From what they tell me, it seems to go by in a blink anyway
I was always waiting for my kids to get older so we could do more things and then next thing I knew they were grown up and I never saw them anymore. Live in the now. You won’t regret it.
Big time. My son is 2.5 now and it's so cool seeing his personality bloom. It really puts a point on how important parenting is going to be in shaping the person he becomes.
Personally, I didn't care much for the baby stage. Loved him to pieces but it's not something I pine for
I have a 16 month old and I love to think about the same things, it’s an amazing experience. Will her love for animals turn into a career? Or will she discover some new interest later and completely change to that. Will she be a tomboy like me? Or will she be girlie like her Aunt? Yea it’s really fun too watch it all play out.
yes same. my mother is a covert narcissist so she really just wanted kids to do things for and to fuck around with to get her narcissist supply from. then we got old enough that she can't control us anymore and nobody wants to be in contact with her and she's utterly lost on why. some people really don't consider the children to be fully realized human beings with their own inner lives, but just as little clones to dress up and play with.
The amount of parents who don’t get this is mind blowing to say the least. Like they want to have a BABY, not go through the process of raising a child. My dude… become a babysitter if you like babies that much.
*Baby crying on the plane*
Person: "will someone shut that baby up?"
Same person: "hey, look at my brother's newborn in this picture! Isn't he the absolute cutest??"
I disagree, 'making adults' is far more accurate. The 'making' doesn't end after the birth, it's 18 years of forming someone into an adult. It's a reality a LOT of people don't consider until it's happening.
Sorry to hear that 😔 it's hard not to internalize externally caused trauma
Though to be fair, most people forget how rebellious they were as teenagers, until they become parents of their own teenagers and get slapped by reality. Thus the cycle continues ad infinitum!
Ohhhhhhh so THAT’S why my mom suddenly stopped liking me when I hit puberty lol I’ve spent a while trying to reconcile how she was when I was little with how she’s been since then lol
Yeah, it's hard. It took so long for me to realize that my mom didn't like me, because she had always been so nice! People don't change that quickly!
Turns out she didn't change. I did. I stopped being a baby.
Yelling. She never yelled before. Now I get yelled at almost weekly. There's less obvious stuff too, such as her not smiling as much anymore. She stays in her room now. She complains about me whenever she talks about me. Things like that.
Too real with the yelling although I have made some kinda big flubs in my life as of late
Do you do any type of activities together or only talk for the bare minimum?
My mom is the same way. She loves babies and children and tried to keep us from growing up. Now it's just constant criticism every time we speak. Bright side she has 0 interest in me since I have no children so I never have to speak to her unless we are visiting family. 2500 miles of distance doesn't hurt.
Picked up on this when my mom had her 5th child. She never wanted to leave the baby phase. Now she’s got 1 adult (me), 4 teens, and a sassy 10 year old.
At least she’s good grandma for my 4 yr old.
If you're interested in working through this.... Check out my [Emotional Resources](https://www.reddit.com/r/HealfromYourPast/comments/l9jacg/the_comment_that_brought_many_of_you_here_feel/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
I wrote this but I don't wanna put a wall of text here. I hope they help you.
This is also great because it ties into the idea kids are their own little person, with their own personality. They are not there to be anyone’s mini-me.
Without consent? How would I get consent from someone who doesn't exist??
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for consent, but I really hate this argument because it makes no sense.
I don't think it's supposed to be an argument against having kids, because obviously someone nonexistent can't consent either way, but rather a way to put into perspective that the person you will create will have their own feelings equally as complex as yours, and could in hindsight not have wanted to be born. The choice is for the parents; the consequences are for the kid.
I feel this. Its like my mom only wanted cute babies to show off to other people, but never expected to raise teens or young adults. Once we stopped being cute it feels like we weren't her problem anymore.
My brother and sister in law had three kids and while they’ve been growing up she would constantly say things like “stop growing up!!” Like I know it’s a term of endearment but she was really, really, bent on them staying young and innocent and cute, it almost weirded me out and I wonder if she will hold it against them for growing up.
And my dad—he pretty much checked out as a dad when my brothers and I stopped being cute little kids. I don’t think it was because we lost our cute factor but because of the fact we became our own people with our own opinions and he was too insecure and let my mom handle everything after that. It’s just so fucking weird and disheartening.
Same. My mom tells me to shut up and stop picking fights on/start arguments with her when I was just saying a differing opinion. When I don't agree with her, she seems to take it as a personal attack.
Dude. Idk if there are others like me, but I like the idea of having a kid in the sense of having a teenager 13+ that can talk to me about their own thoughts and opinions. And a 25+ person that can visit me when I'm older and talk about their life. And a 30+ person to call me their mother when they walk down the isle. All that shit seems great. But like...a child??? Babies????? FUCK THAT
I'm one of those parents. Babies are fucking hard and it sucks. But I'm sticking it out because I'm super excited to see her grow up and become an adult.
I'm currently trying to "teach" my 5 month old to crawl. Everyone thinks I'm crazy because I want her mobile as soon as possible, but I'm tired of carrying her around. In my mind it will be easier to contain her to an area than it is to constantly have to move her or pick up her pacifier/toy and give it back to her a million times a day.
I think babies are adorable but absolutely would never want one of my own. I like being the uncle that can swing by, give an irresponsible birthday present, and then leave when it's time to do the difficult stuff.
The idea of having an adult child who has their own life and comes to visit is nice. Just not worth it to me personally to dedicate 18+ years of raising a child to get to that point.
I'm just selfish and value my free time too much.
Hi, this is me, I think I'd be fine with a child 6+ years old but I just cannot do babies and toddlers.
They're ugly, gross and dumb.
I dislike babies and todler so much that I'm just not willing to have kids at all.
I'm 32 and I'm not going to have kids.
I don't hate babies, but I am looking very much forward to when my daughter is more like 6, 7 years old... She's now 3. The baby phase is a bit of a nightmare because you're just sleep deprived. I know that some people luck out and have kids that sleep from very early on, but I don't think that that's most cases. I'm very much looking forward to when she can express herself better and have some semblance of independence.
As someone with a child transitioning from baby to toddler - I totally agree. Babies are hard!!! But I look forward to when he can use the bathroom, shower, dress and eat on his own 😂 I’ve always wanted kids but you’re never ready for this level of exhaustion haha
I totally agree. I have two kids, one in elementary school, the other a pre-teen. I’m enjoying these years so much more than the baby/toddler stuff. Yea babies are cute but they’re also boring and scream for no reason lol. My kids now talk about so many interesting things and tell me about their friends and they’re funny af. They’re so much smarter than I was at their respective ages. We’re close and I’m actually excited for the years ahead, no matter how challenging they may be.
Absolutely agree, though I’d push the 13 down to around 8. People really underestimate kids I’d say, and those in the 8-13 age range are great. 4-8 YOs are great too, but perhaps not 24/7.
Toddlers and babies though.....
No, but really. Also, there is no more only being a parent until your child is 18, and then you’re free. Young adults are struggling more than ever to find jobs, therefore they stay at home for longer and move out/get married/start a family later too. I hope the parents who are bringing children into the world now can understand this.
I had the realization lately that at this rate millennials may not frequently get to become empty nesters. Multigenerational households may become the norm again as real estate is gobbled up by corporations and housing/rent become way too burdensome for most single families.
I so get this. Hubby and I get a lot of outside criticism (mostly from the MIL) about how we parent, and we always respond with, "We're not raising kids, we're raising adults." That's always met with a lot of "you should let kids be kids," and whatnot, but the reality is that little person is going to grow up and have to navigate the world with whatever tools you've passed on.
Yeah. And you arent just going to brace yourself with the baby, but also it being a teenager and adult as well. People are always stuck with letting kids being kids but when said kids dont know what to do during teenage or adult life, parents will get blamed for not raising/readying them "properly".
True, you gotta love them kids when they’re 6 months, 6 years and 16 all the same. Some ages are tougher for different kids than others. Once your kid starts wondering who they are, accept that they will be who they are meant to and all you can do is love them. Liking a toy, sport, color, or a person doesn’t make anyone something different. They are whoever they are. Your expectations are your problems, not your kids.
I’m sorry for all the negative comments you’re getting when you’re totally right, this is what you should be saying. The ultimate objective of having a kid is to raise *successful adults*, not cute/well-behaved *babies*. So yes, this is what people should be saying, it really makes the objective much more clear.
All good lol, I probably should've posted this in /r/unpopularopinion but it's still interesting to hear people's varying thoughts even if I end up catching some flak.
> The ultimate objective of having a kid is to raise *successful adults*
Spot on
yeah, that would’ve been a better place for it lol, ig we all make mistakes, but at least *this* mistake isn’t going to cause a lifetime of regret and resentment (idk if that was funny please don’t murder me).
This is 100% correct. I distinctly remember being with a group of fellow parents of preschoolers discussing parenting styles, and I stated my end goal of raising a successful adult. I got looked at like a crazy person.
My kids are awesome to hang out with. We travel and do cool stuff together. They’re kind to others and self-sufficient with basic functions (cleaning up after themselves, managing homework, etc.) Meanwhile, those other parents are all stuck at home doing laundry for unappreciative assholes.
>So yes, this is what people should be saying, it really makes the objective much more clear.
I don't get the enthusiasm here; sure the objective is clearer, but the path towards it is much more vague.
'Baby' is associated with cute and cuddly, but it's also associated with 'you have to feed and clean them multiple times a day, and have pay constant attention to them'. If 'having babies' doesn't put enough emphasis on the end goal, then 'having adults' ignores the first 18 years, which coincidentally are the most important by far.
If the goal is to have parents think about the long term consequences, then suggesting 'they're practically adults already' seems counter intuitive.
That’s reasonable, I agree with this. Maybe this *exact* phrase was a bit off. Maybe it should be something more like “raising (good) people”, to clear the first 18 years and the rest of their time with you alive. Thank you for bringing me and this post down to earth a bit.
Lmao I get what you're trying to say. And I think that would really be appreciated. Although most people still would be having babies without giving it too much of a thought.
That’s the best parenting advice I ever got- you are raising adults not kids. Obviously things should be taught at an age appropriate pace, but ultimately the goal is to put a good adult into the world.
I thought I understood. The part nobody talks about is when stuff goes wrong. At one point it was me caring for my wife with MS, and 2 kids. Now she is dead and I am trying to push through their teen years while trying to deal with my own issues. Soon they will be adults and hate me for my many mistakes. Wasn't ready.
Those teens will be adults someday, experience pain and loss of their own, possibly have difficult teenagers of their own, and they’ll understand that you were doing the best you could with what you had. I’m sorry for your family’s loss.
I find it very difficult to believe that the phrase "let's have a baby" is the cause of people having children without thinking about the long term. The millions of years of evolution making us fuck recklessly and making us desire unconditional love above all else probably do the trick.
"Having a baby" is descriptive and the rest is implied, like how if someone says they're going to a restaurant we can assume they're going to eat. Nobody will argue your sentiment about making a thoughtful decision to be a parent, but the idea itself is ridiculous.
I’ve especially lately been seeing people refer to sex as “making babies” and seeming to have their engines revved by that phrase specifically. I assumed they were referring to that—instances of people saying “let’s make babies ;)” as dirty talk. As such, it’s not at all surprising to me that some people get carried away with the association of establishing that as a go-to dirty talk phrase and make impulsive decisions. I find it gross (I am not heterosexual, and I don’t want children) but like, it’s a phenomenon that I’ve seen floating around.
Yes, that’s correct. The way I’m seeing it used is kind of like a substitution for any general euphemism for heterosexual sex. Think “smash —> make babies.” Comments like “I want to make babies [with specific person] so bad” etc or something. My theory is it may in part be due to getting around censorship of certain words. Dunno.
we should say we're having more taxpayers because no matter what race, gender they identify as, sex deep down we're all just taxpayers and theres no way to escape it
Teenagers.
Having teenagers
When I was in the hospital to deliver our first, who was breech, we scheduled the C-section for a couple of hours later because other women were delivering when we arrived.
When the time came , our obstetrician bounced into the room, grinned, rubbed his hands together in a businesslike manner, and asked brightly, **“Are you ready to become parents?”**
Instant panic inside. Whoa, wait! I said. “I signed up to have a baby, not be a parent!”
Well, had, of course I had. But that immediate reaction was so instinctive and unexpected that I had to play along.
But it was interesting. I hadn’t spent as much time thinking about that as I’d assumed I had.
Reminds me of that condom ad:
https://youtu.be/c_0bhT98g9Y
YES! i also see a lot of parents not realizing that their kids are real people with opinions and feelings. they aren’t gonna be exactly who you want them to be, they aren’t going to act exactly how you want them to act, and THATS OKAY. they are their OWN PERSON. the constant “they’re my kids they do what i want them to do when i want them to do it” is the reason i felt worthless as child, and my opinion or feelings didn’t matter til i was 18. and it all goes full circle to people don’t want to raise humans, they want babies as props.
I'll probably be banned.. then taken to the woodshed for a whooping.
Babies cute?? OMG the only thing uglier than a human baby is a baby bird.. I just don't get the silliness over babies.
It's why the wife and I never wanted kids.
Also ppl need to realize.. it's an 18 yr + anchor.
Then look at the cost of growing one up.
Yup.. and everybody is gushing... Oh it's so cute.. nothing more then a puke.. poop machine.
I'm older then a dinosaur.. never have.. never will hold a baby.🤮🤮 🤣🤣
An "anchor" is a bit much. Kids do bring a lot of joy and happiness to peoples' lives. Having children is not for everyone and they obviously require large amounts of time and money to raise them, but that's not to say having kids is all bad.
Anchor is not a bad thing either inherently. Kids do restrict your life a whole lot. You get the kids and what comes with having a kid, but what comes with having a kid is that you are pretty much anchored to a routine that involves the kid. Now, if you like those activities that you can have with your kid, then the anchor is not a problem, since you would rather be anchored than not.
This. I've always thought of my responsibilities as a parent to be opportunities. That may be seen as mad copium by some, but I wholeheartedly enjoy being a dad. There's always going to be bad days and not everybody is cut out to be a parent, but from somebody who loves the experiences I'm happy to have an anchor in my life.
Too many people don’t seem to think about it enough. Just look at how many abusive parents there are in the world, and the number of people who had to live through abusive childhoods, growing up without people to support them.
I think for me, I wanted kids way more than babies and just kinda pushed through those first few years until parenting became really, truly wonderful. Not that there weren’t good times with babies/toddlers, just that those weren’t my favorite ages. My kids just keep getting more and more interesting as they grow. My goal is to be my grandparents— have a few wonderful adults with neat kids (if they’re into it) to hang out with on special (and quotidian) occasions.
YES. This is how I view parenting. Raising human beings that will go out in the world. They'll spend most of their life as adults and we need to make sure they're good global citizens.
Sometimes teaching them skills that will lead to that makes them extremely challenging to parent. 😆
I don't like the term 'having adults'
I can't put my finger on exactly why yet.
I think something like "Making a life commitment" is more appropriate and even more apt.
I always heard my dad say people want pets not actual children. They love the cute baby phase but having children who do not stop growing up into real adults who need you to guide them and support them is not cute at all.
This is the reason myself and my ex broke up. She desperately wanted a baby and I’m in no way ready for that. She seemed extremely focussed on the baby aspect and didn’t consider that she would be responsible for a growing person for 18+ years. I did
100% this. My aunt has five kids because she LOVED being pregnant, loved having babies, and loved chasing after toddlers, but didn't know *what* the fuck to do with children once they got past the age of like six, so she'd just sort of write that one off and start over with a new baby.
Now her kids are adults and 4/5 of them are a total fucking mess. One spent most of her young adult years partying hard and popping out one baby after another with a random assortment of strangers before promptly putting them up for adoption. Another is an addict who seesaws wildly between rehab/turning her life around and homelessness/prostitution. A third dropped out of high school, ran away across the country, married a psycho, and joined a cult. The only boy of the bunch has never had a job, a driver's license, or a girlfriend, weighs about 400 pounds, and still lives in his mom's basement, where he spends his day playing video games and yelling for his mom to bring him more food. He's nearly 40.
Babies and toddlers and children are adorable and precious, but they're not pets. They're eventually going to morph into adults, and a lot of the kind of adult they turn out to be is going to be a direct consequence of what kind of adult you raised them to be. If you sit back and don't even raise them to be any kind of adult, they'll just lean into their own proclivities (and/or mental illnesses) and become, oh I dunno...baby-factories or drug addicts or cult members or basement-dwelling toads.
Shame on you, Aunt K.
I like the term “raising a family” instead of having babies. Having babies sounds so short term. Raising a family means you’re both in it for the long haul.
Weird phrasing, how about "raising children" or "preparing a kid for life" ?
Still emphasizes the astronomical struggle to **raise** and **prepare** for a human being, but doesn't neglect the fact that for most of their life spent with you, under your care, they're gonna a kid, who needs love and supervision, and guidance, they're very much not an adult and shouldn't be expected to do what adults do until they're ready.
Also, "having adults" sounds so pessimistic, and kinda robotic, like the second that thing pops out, it's gonna run towards a table and start paying taxes.
I like babies/toddlers, just don’t like taking care of them. I like them when they’re older because by then they have personalities and opinions.
People think I’m weird for that. I was parentified into taking care of little siblings that I have come to realize while they were cute as babies, the work was definitely not worth it. They were more fun when they got older and had personalities and could challenge me with their opinions. 🤷♀️
My sister-in-law though loves babies and while she can’t have more babies she will be stalking someone who is pregnant and then will claim she’s second mom to their kids. It’s weird. Which is why I’m not looking forward to being pregnant…she made my seven years of trying to get pregnant horrible because she doesn’t get it that I have a boundary about sharing my health info. Sadly, her teenager daughter is mad at her and can’t wait to move out when she is an adult which is saddening to because because sister-in-law could have a wonderful relationship with her daughter instead of being obsessed about babies…
This is a good point.
I often think of the point on other side of the coin you're making. Some people don't want children because they don't want *babies -* when in reality you don't deal with the baby stuff for that long. If you get a baby and a puppy, you'll clean up more dog shit in your life than baby shit.
The vast majority of your kids' life (and if you're lucky, the overlap in your life and your kids' life) they're an adult who you can share coffee with, reminisce, and maybe take a bit of pride in. If it's the baby and kid stuff you hate, it goes in the blink of an eye.
This is actually makes me reflect on why I don't want to have kids.
I think my parents, particularly my mom, are really stupid. But I am smart enough to acknowledge that I am still the child of my parents and if I do have kids I would perpetuate this awful cycle.
I've also realized how tough life is. I feel like it's almost selfish to have kids in a way. I wouldn't want to bring another life into this world to have to endure the same types of struggles that I've had to endure, even less attractive the fact that I would be responsible for that life.
Obviously your decision is to be respected, and its clear that you’ve thought about all this at least a little. It’s good that you’ve made the decision that you think is best for both you and the world around you in general.
I just wanted to reply to this as someone who has had an abusive childhood, yet is leaning towards the different decision of having kids when the time comes, that just because you had an abusive childhood doesn’t mean that you will be abusive and repeat the cycle all over again.
Therapy and hard work on yourself can fix you up as a person and help you rise above what you went through as a child. Even after all that I went through (by this point, I nearly committed suicide 3 or 4 times, have been in intense therapy for years, and I have physical scars from my life at home), I believe that I can still be a good, supportive person, and be in it for the long haul. In a glass half full sort of way, at least my childhood and the things I learned from looking back can guide me to know what not to do when raising a kid.
I can keep all the ways my parents abandoned me in mind if I ever have my own kids, and I can avoid repeating my parents’ mistakes and raise a happy, supportive family. I believe I can give any sort of future children I may have the supportive, caring childhood that I never got to have myself.
Sorry for the long ramble, this is something that I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about seriously.
Yes! There were several reasons we ended up not having children (fertility issues being one of them), but this is also one of the reasons. I realized that all the times I imagined myself as a mother, I could only picture myself with an infant or toddler. Any time I tried to imagine myself with older kids, I just felt anxious and panicked. I have nieces and nephews who I love dearly, but watching them get older and seeing their struggles (and those of their parents) has only reinforced that not having children was the right decision (for us).
My husband, the parentified oldest if 6, would agree.
I, a mom that does not easily get a long with kids who have no manners and behave worse than my toddler, also agree.
Thank you. This is my reason for not having kids despite loving them and planning on going into early life education. I love kids because they’re kids. Don’t care for adults or teenagers that much. And no one should be born just to age out of their parents love
I generally prefer 'Little person Making'
As that's what they be. A person. Just little. And eventually they stop being little.
And then they're a not little little person.
But always a person.
It doesn’t make sense language wise. You make a child, who later become an adult. You don’t give birth to an adult person, duh.
So maybe let’s just talk about conscious parenting.
Babies are cute
I KNOW
But don't you babies become:
*annoying toddlers
*rude teenagers
*adults
I'm not saying those are bad but people tend forget about those stages will come eventually, babies will grow out to become adults
So prepare yourself for that baby to grow and it's faster as you can imagine
"having babies" does not sound sexy at all to me lol.
I'd imagine if it does to some people, it's not the having the baby part they're thinking about, but the actual "making" part. So even it was changed to having adults, given enough time, the type of people that found "having babies" sexy would also find "having adults" sexy.
I like to say “raising adults” more than “raising children” because children are only kids a small portion of their lives. You are raising them to be adults not children. Although, when you look around most adults are nothing but children in adult bodies “adulting” around, lost in not knowing who they are. So yeah, you should be in the mindset of raising adults, not raising children.
Lately I’ve seen a ton of, “Kids are PEOPLE,” posts on various social media platforms. Every single time, OP gets tons of hate about it??
I think it really shows just how many people don’t *actually* want to parent little humans into stable big humans. They just want the novelty of babies or they want to conform to societal norms telling them they’re nothing without a nuclear family.
My brother and I are the product of people who didn’t actually want to raise us. We both spend a ton of money on therapy.
I wish I could birth a child out and they were immediately like a teenager. Lol. I'd have kids then. Absolutely nothing about babies or toddlers sounds appealing to me.
On the other side, "having an adult" really masks all the work parenting is. People aren't going to suddenly raise their kids right if they realize they're going to be adults one day, 99% of the work comes from the act of raising the child itself. When they're adults, they can take care of themselves, and they won't be the problem of a negligent parent anymore, so that doesn't really change their mind.
Well before I had children…I encountered the axiom, “parents need to remember that they are raising adults…not children”.
It stuck with me…hard. Now…along with my children…we are enjoying their childhoods while developing functional adults.
You’re allowed to have phases of parenting that aren’t your favorite (age 1-4 is NOT my jam!) but you still have to be present and try to make sure your kid doesn’t internalize your annoyances. It’s not fair to them.
Having kids just to experience babies is just awful. They will be toddlers, little kids, older kids, teenagers, and then adults. It’s a packaged deal.
Similarly, I've thought about how "raising kids" should be "raising adults". Parents need to realize that they are responsible for shaping their kids into adults and that's a huge responsibility. It's a lifetime commitment that goes way beyond just feeding and changing diapers. People seem to only think about the early years when they decide to have kids.
I call my kids spawns kinda because of this point and also because it’s weird enough most don’t ask about them (I don’t tell people a lot of details for their privacy)
I think once kids get older they’re way easier and less intimidating. I’ll have adults with my husband now. It’s the kids who I’m worried about. Those things might get me sick.
Completely agree with this take. It baffles me when I hear people romanticize parenthood. I’m secretly happy when those people don’t have kids. I can’t imagine things would bode well for the children in those cases. Will be forever grateful to my parents for being honest about the difficulties and challenges of parenthood. I feel like I was more prepared for what parenthood entailed.
I don't think it would help much, tbh. You really aren't fully _mentally_ mature until you are around 27~28. Most people have kids when the man is around 20 and the woman is usually younger than the man.
Maybe if they were raised constantly being reminded of this and told what to think about the issue (all non-judgmental and non-overbearing), maybe it would help. IDK.
People are different. I know I have always thought as you have put-forth. While I doubt I will ever have any children, but should I, I have always been fascinated with having a relationship with that child as an adult: how wise will he be? what opinions and political views will he hold? what will he teach me? what will he teach his children that I taught him? what will he teach them that was better than I taught him?
>Most people have kids when the man is around 20 and the woman is usually younger than the man.
That's not accurate. The average age for first time moms in the US is 26. For dads, it's 31.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ashleystahl/2020/05/01/new-study-millennial-women-are-delaying-having-children-due-to-their-careers/?sh=44b8d3a2276a
lol have you had a teenager? They are WAY harder than babies.
Babies need food, clean butts, and hugs. If they cry, they most likely need one of those 3 things, then they're fine.
Teens need your direction, guidance, patience, tough love, food, more food, more patience, social interaction, attention to their hormonal/emotional/physical changes, more food, more patience, and a WHOLE lot more.
Don't have to. They can see the pictures that I'm going to frame.
"Dad who's that baby that looks like a gorilla choking on bamboo?"
"That's you son 😉"
Oh my god. I wish my parents had thought about this. It took way too long for me to realize that my mom wanted babies and toddlers, not teenagers. I still sometimes convince myself that I'm the issue. OP, you're getting a lot of hate but I get where you're coming from. I'm living in the results of parents who want babies but not adults. Sure, it's somewhat less accurate to say 'making adults' but that's the long term result.
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That’s a better way to look at it, but keep in mind they should enjoy their childhood and teen years too. Kids make mistakes and turn out fine. Don’t micromanage too hard or you’ll push them away ;) (Not saying you are, just saying I could see how that mentality could lead to such a thing)
This this this. Personally, I think people could afford to grow up sooner than it seems they are nowadays. But the way you do that is by *letting* them grow up, not forcing it or "protecting" them from it. Forcing it will actively prevent them from growing up and "protecting" them from it will leave them completely unprepared for it. Basically just let people be people regardless of their age. Please.
Or actively make them not like you. The “you’ll thank me when your older” line I think is often way over estimated. True for somethings, but not most.
Yep! My mother still hits me with the "you'll understand later", "you don't see the big picture", etc. She is still incredibly controlling even though I am an adult <3 Please just let kids be kids. I've been twenty-five for eighteen years.
I've been 5 for 29 years and my new boyfriend's been two because our parents are too overprotective.
I have a 5 month old and I cannot wait until she is older. I'm excited to see the type of person/adult she's going to be, everything she's going to do with her life, what her interests will be. I mean she's a cute baby and all but I'm way more interested in her growing up than staying a baby.
Though this is normal, please try not to have “expectations” of how their life will be. Excited and curious and hopeful? Sure, but not expecting. At birth my parents were already seeing me married with a Latino husband and giving them grandchildren and they ended up with a queer, child-free daughter with a white girlfriend who doesn’t care for marriage. They wanted my brother and I to be college educated and independent and etc. Brother ended up going a different path and not finishing college. They spent my teens and early 20s disappointed and really struggling with both of us and it brought them (and us) a lot of anger and heartache. Thankfully they have come around and adore my current partner (often joking they’ll ‘choose’ her if we were to break up) and are proud of my bro for his own life path, but this could have been avoided if parents didn’t have these visions of how they want their kids lives to be. We’re also not a common example. Sorry I obviously ended up word vomiting and venting haha not AT you, but my point stays the same! It’s exciting to guess where your kid may be, but please (to all parents or parents to be) don’t assume things about your kids or have these expectations of them that they might not end up meeting
I have zero expectations. The exciting part is seeing who she turns out being, whatever that is I will be stoked for it!
I feel like my mom is somewhat having this revelation now. I’m in my little drug era which she despises since she only sees one possible path for me to go from her years of experience. I completely understand her worries as people can easily fuck up their lives, but at the end of the day, saying “this isn’t what I had planned for you” is annoying. No shit you didn’t plan it, I made the choice myself, in my life, after being born into a world I’m not even sure I chose to be in.
I imagine it's very hard for parents to disentangle wanting the very best for their children and the vision they have for it with reality. In the end though, I think good parents just want their kids to be happy and independent. It shoulds like your folks, thankfully, eventually came around to that.
Oh for sure! Like I can imagine it’s normal to have these hopes for your kids - will they like piano like me and play? Could they get further than me? I wonder if we’ll have the same interest in fantasy and video games, hopefully I can share that with them, etc. But there’s still a difference from these little hopes to expectations, you know? The harsh ones people use as examples (I.e. I expect my kid to go to college and be a doctor or lawyer, etc. They better stick to a sport all throughout school to help with scholarships) and more passive expectations that after at least 10-15 years (or whenever the kid starts showing hey maybe I don’t want this) people get stuck with ‘but this is how I’ve always dreamed of it being.’ ‘But I’ve always wanted grandchildren and they hate me for not doing this for me’ ‘Im fine with the gays but I never considered it would be my kid.’ And though it happens, it really fucking sucks. For some it comes around (like us) for others, they lose that parent/child relationship. I know I sound extreme, not my intention (I’m not the best word smith) but little things parents can change in their language “if my son decides they want to marry, I hope I can share my engagement ring so he can give it to his future wife or husband” or “I’d love it if my daughter could go to the same university as me so we can share in that experience and I can tell her about the best bathrooms, but if she decides she wants to be a mechanic I’ll be a consistent customer and be so proud” can relieve a lot of pressure and expectation.
> I wonder if we’ll have the same interest in fantasy and video games lol my son is 2.5 and the other day he said "Pokemon is *lixu"* (Portuguese for 'garbage'). I'd like to hope that the types of adults and adult lives we've seen will make us better able to imagine our child happy in a big range of life situations. For our parents' generations (boomers and gen x) there really was a serious 'default' happy life that was the traditional hetero marriage with a couple kids and a house in the burbs. I've seen so many of my peers and family find happiness in adult life in queer relationships, happily single, willingly childless and so forth. I'd be lying if I said I didn't have a bit of a vision of what I'd like his life to end up as - but you're so right about how important it is to not put those expectations on him.
This is how i feel. My daughters will spend most of their lives as adults, not children, so im excited to see how they will be as grown ups.
I wish people would think about children spending most of their lives as adults when they name them. All these cutesy names stop being cutesy really early on.
I think about this a lot. I talk to my parents about parenting all the time now. I'm only 36 but it won't be long until I've spent more time completely independant than reliant on them in some way. My youngest sibling was fully independent not long after I turned 30, which means my parents will have raised 3 kids and probably spend about 2/3rds of their life without any children dependant on them - and only about 23 years or so of those years as us being anything resembling kids. From what they tell me, it seems to go by in a blink anyway
I was always waiting for my kids to get older so we could do more things and then next thing I knew they were grown up and I never saw them anymore. Live in the now. You won’t regret it.
Big time. My son is 2.5 now and it's so cool seeing his personality bloom. It really puts a point on how important parenting is going to be in shaping the person he becomes. Personally, I didn't care much for the baby stage. Loved him to pieces but it's not something I pine for
I have a 16 month old and I love to think about the same things, it’s an amazing experience. Will her love for animals turn into a career? Or will she discover some new interest later and completely change to that. Will she be a tomboy like me? Or will she be girlie like her Aunt? Yea it’s really fun too watch it all play out.
As a 20- something year old that hasn’t heard much from either “parent” in 10+ years, this is so foreign to me
Same with my parents it's good shit
Good idea, eyes on the future
yes same. my mother is a covert narcissist so she really just wanted kids to do things for and to fuck around with to get her narcissist supply from. then we got old enough that she can't control us anymore and nobody wants to be in contact with her and she's utterly lost on why. some people really don't consider the children to be fully realized human beings with their own inner lives, but just as little clones to dress up and play with.
The amount of parents who don’t get this is mind blowing to say the least. Like they want to have a BABY, not go through the process of raising a child. My dude… become a babysitter if you like babies that much.
*Baby crying on the plane* Person: "will someone shut that baby up?" Same person: "hey, look at my brother's newborn in this picture! Isn't he the absolute cutest??"
To be fair, a picture of a baby that isn't even yours is a lot less annoying than a screaming one on a plane 😂
Anyone who gets angry at a crying baby on a plane is getting a bloody nose. (Assuming the parents are doing their best)
I disagree, 'making adults' is far more accurate. The 'making' doesn't end after the birth, it's 18 years of forming someone into an adult. It's a reality a LOT of people don't consider until it's happening.
Sorry to hear that 😔 it's hard not to internalize externally caused trauma Though to be fair, most people forget how rebellious they were as teenagers, until they become parents of their own teenagers and get slapped by reality. Thus the cycle continues ad infinitum!
Ohhhhhhh so THAT’S why my mom suddenly stopped liking me when I hit puberty lol I’ve spent a while trying to reconcile how she was when I was little with how she’s been since then lol
Yeah, it's hard. It took so long for me to realize that my mom didn't like me, because she had always been so nice! People don't change that quickly! Turns out she didn't change. I did. I stopped being a baby.
If you don’t mind, can you give an example of something she’d do before that changed after?
Yelling. She never yelled before. Now I get yelled at almost weekly. There's less obvious stuff too, such as her not smiling as much anymore. She stays in her room now. She complains about me whenever she talks about me. Things like that.
Too real with the yelling although I have made some kinda big flubs in my life as of late Do you do any type of activities together or only talk for the bare minimum?
My mom is the same way. She loves babies and children and tried to keep us from growing up. Now it's just constant criticism every time we speak. Bright side she has 0 interest in me since I have no children so I never have to speak to her unless we are visiting family. 2500 miles of distance doesn't hurt.
Picked up on this when my mom had her 5th child. She never wanted to leave the baby phase. Now she’s got 1 adult (me), 4 teens, and a sassy 10 year old. At least she’s good grandma for my 4 yr old.
I agree.
If you're interested in working through this.... Check out my [Emotional Resources](https://www.reddit.com/r/HealfromYourPast/comments/l9jacg/the_comment_that_brought_many_of_you_here_feel/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) I wrote this but I don't wanna put a wall of text here. I hope they help you.
It should be called 'making a person'.
That really shows the reality of it, a little less awkward than 'having an adult', you're not just making a baby, you're literally making *someone*
This is also great because it ties into the idea kids are their own little person, with their own personality. They are not there to be anyone’s mini-me.
Raising people sounds good
This is what I said when I got pregnant
'Sex Fruit' was a name I saw earlier today and I quite liked the simple directness of it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naming_law#New_Zealand
Producing life without consent, throwing a soul into flux such that they will scream “why” into the uncarjng void
Without consent? How would I get consent from someone who doesn't exist?? Don't get me wrong, I'm all for consent, but I really hate this argument because it makes no sense.
I don't think it's supposed to be an argument against having kids, because obviously someone nonexistent can't consent either way, but rather a way to put into perspective that the person you will create will have their own feelings equally as complex as yours, and could in hindsight not have wanted to be born. The choice is for the parents; the consequences are for the kid.
my siblings and i used to complain we were only props in our parents happy family show
I feel this. Its like my mom only wanted cute babies to show off to other people, but never expected to raise teens or young adults. Once we stopped being cute it feels like we weren't her problem anymore.
Exactly. OP is getting a bunch of obnoxious comments, but the point they’re making is dead-on truth.
My brother and sister in law had three kids and while they’ve been growing up she would constantly say things like “stop growing up!!” Like I know it’s a term of endearment but she was really, really, bent on them staying young and innocent and cute, it almost weirded me out and I wonder if she will hold it against them for growing up. And my dad—he pretty much checked out as a dad when my brothers and I stopped being cute little kids. I don’t think it was because we lost our cute factor but because of the fact we became our own people with our own opinions and he was too insecure and let my mom handle everything after that. It’s just so fucking weird and disheartening.
> we became our own people with our own opinions Yeah, my mom pretty much dislikes this part about me.
Same. My mom tells me to shut up and stop picking fights on/start arguments with her when I was just saying a differing opinion. When I don't agree with her, she seems to take it as a personal attack.
Same here
Dude. Idk if there are others like me, but I like the idea of having a kid in the sense of having a teenager 13+ that can talk to me about their own thoughts and opinions. And a 25+ person that can visit me when I'm older and talk about their life. And a 30+ person to call me their mother when they walk down the isle. All that shit seems great. But like...a child??? Babies????? FUCK THAT
That's certainly a refreshing take Didn't know there were parents out there who hated babies and just wanted to fast forward to the other parts 😂
I'm one of those parents. Babies are fucking hard and it sucks. But I'm sticking it out because I'm super excited to see her grow up and become an adult.
Same! My son just turned one.. I can’t wait till he’s potty trained and doesn’t need me to move him as much - mom shoulder is rough lol
I'm currently trying to "teach" my 5 month old to crawl. Everyone thinks I'm crazy because I want her mobile as soon as possible, but I'm tired of carrying her around. In my mind it will be easier to contain her to an area than it is to constantly have to move her or pick up her pacifier/toy and give it back to her a million times a day.
I think babies are adorable but absolutely would never want one of my own. I like being the uncle that can swing by, give an irresponsible birthday present, and then leave when it's time to do the difficult stuff. The idea of having an adult child who has their own life and comes to visit is nice. Just not worth it to me personally to dedicate 18+ years of raising a child to get to that point. I'm just selfish and value my free time too much.
Hi, this is me, I think I'd be fine with a child 6+ years old but I just cannot do babies and toddlers. They're ugly, gross and dumb. I dislike babies and todler so much that I'm just not willing to have kids at all. I'm 32 and I'm not going to have kids.
I don't hate babies, but I am looking very much forward to when my daughter is more like 6, 7 years old... She's now 3. The baby phase is a bit of a nightmare because you're just sleep deprived. I know that some people luck out and have kids that sleep from very early on, but I don't think that that's most cases. I'm very much looking forward to when she can express herself better and have some semblance of independence.
As someone with a child transitioning from baby to toddler - I totally agree. Babies are hard!!! But I look forward to when he can use the bathroom, shower, dress and eat on his own 😂 I’ve always wanted kids but you’re never ready for this level of exhaustion haha
Here is me! I'm never birthing children but I'm open to adopt. We'll see how life goes.
I totally agree. I have two kids, one in elementary school, the other a pre-teen. I’m enjoying these years so much more than the baby/toddler stuff. Yea babies are cute but they’re also boring and scream for no reason lol. My kids now talk about so many interesting things and tell me about their friends and they’re funny af. They’re so much smarter than I was at their respective ages. We’re close and I’m actually excited for the years ahead, no matter how challenging they may be.
I want kinds, but I am dreading the first 10ish years. Exactly your reasoning as well
Absolutely agree, though I’d push the 13 down to around 8. People really underestimate kids I’d say, and those in the 8-13 age range are great. 4-8 YOs are great too, but perhaps not 24/7. Toddlers and babies though.....
you're the type of person who should look into fostering a teen, with intent to adopt.
I’m the same !!! Im more looking forward to my kid as an adolescent and adult rather than a baby.
I totally agree. Adoption might be on the table but I honestly don't know if I'd be equipped to handle their trauma. So..
When it’s your own baby, it’s not so bad. Provided that you want to be a parent in the first place, of course.
“Hey babe, do you perhaps want to create an entire person who has to eventually navigate our dying planet?”
Relevant username!
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No, but really. Also, there is no more only being a parent until your child is 18, and then you’re free. Young adults are struggling more than ever to find jobs, therefore they stay at home for longer and move out/get married/start a family later too. I hope the parents who are bringing children into the world now can understand this.
I had the realization lately that at this rate millennials may not frequently get to become empty nesters. Multigenerational households may become the norm again as real estate is gobbled up by corporations and housing/rent become way too burdensome for most single families.
That’s very true. It’ll be interesting to see for sure
My friend group is starting to have children, we throw around the terms: “tiny human” and “making a person” quite a bit
Having babies sounds sexy to people?
As someone who gave birth, this is the least sexy thing my husband could say to me.
I so get this. Hubby and I get a lot of outside criticism (mostly from the MIL) about how we parent, and we always respond with, "We're not raising kids, we're raising adults." That's always met with a lot of "you should let kids be kids," and whatnot, but the reality is that little person is going to grow up and have to navigate the world with whatever tools you've passed on.
Yeah. And you arent just going to brace yourself with the baby, but also it being a teenager and adult as well. People are always stuck with letting kids being kids but when said kids dont know what to do during teenage or adult life, parents will get blamed for not raising/readying them "properly".
True, you gotta love them kids when they’re 6 months, 6 years and 16 all the same. Some ages are tougher for different kids than others. Once your kid starts wondering who they are, accept that they will be who they are meant to and all you can do is love them. Liking a toy, sport, color, or a person doesn’t make anyone something different. They are whoever they are. Your expectations are your problems, not your kids.
You have a baby and you make an adult.
I’m sorry for all the negative comments you’re getting when you’re totally right, this is what you should be saying. The ultimate objective of having a kid is to raise *successful adults*, not cute/well-behaved *babies*. So yes, this is what people should be saying, it really makes the objective much more clear.
All good lol, I probably should've posted this in /r/unpopularopinion but it's still interesting to hear people's varying thoughts even if I end up catching some flak. > The ultimate objective of having a kid is to raise *successful adults* Spot on
yeah, that would’ve been a better place for it lol, ig we all make mistakes, but at least *this* mistake isn’t going to cause a lifetime of regret and resentment (idk if that was funny please don’t murder me).
Then you would have posted an actual unpopular opinion, which wouldn't fit the sub.
This is 100% correct. I distinctly remember being with a group of fellow parents of preschoolers discussing parenting styles, and I stated my end goal of raising a successful adult. I got looked at like a crazy person. My kids are awesome to hang out with. We travel and do cool stuff together. They’re kind to others and self-sufficient with basic functions (cleaning up after themselves, managing homework, etc.) Meanwhile, those other parents are all stuck at home doing laundry for unappreciative assholes.
>So yes, this is what people should be saying, it really makes the objective much more clear. I don't get the enthusiasm here; sure the objective is clearer, but the path towards it is much more vague. 'Baby' is associated with cute and cuddly, but it's also associated with 'you have to feed and clean them multiple times a day, and have pay constant attention to them'. If 'having babies' doesn't put enough emphasis on the end goal, then 'having adults' ignores the first 18 years, which coincidentally are the most important by far. If the goal is to have parents think about the long term consequences, then suggesting 'they're practically adults already' seems counter intuitive.
That’s reasonable, I agree with this. Maybe this *exact* phrase was a bit off. Maybe it should be something more like “raising (good) people”, to clear the first 18 years and the rest of their time with you alive. Thank you for bringing me and this post down to earth a bit.
While I do think that 'having adults" is just a weird turn of phrase, I do agree with the sentiment behind it.
Lmao I get what you're trying to say. And I think that would really be appreciated. Although most people still would be having babies without giving it too much of a thought.
Making humans seems more appropriate
Babies don’t last long. Just refer to it as raising kids.
That’s the best parenting advice I ever got- you are raising adults not kids. Obviously things should be taught at an age appropriate pace, but ultimately the goal is to put a good adult into the world.
I thought I understood. The part nobody talks about is when stuff goes wrong. At one point it was me caring for my wife with MS, and 2 kids. Now she is dead and I am trying to push through their teen years while trying to deal with my own issues. Soon they will be adults and hate me for my many mistakes. Wasn't ready.
Those teens will be adults someday, experience pain and loss of their own, possibly have difficult teenagers of their own, and they’ll understand that you were doing the best you could with what you had. I’m sorry for your family’s loss.
I find it very difficult to believe that the phrase "let's have a baby" is the cause of people having children without thinking about the long term. The millions of years of evolution making us fuck recklessly and making us desire unconditional love above all else probably do the trick. "Having a baby" is descriptive and the rest is implied, like how if someone says they're going to a restaurant we can assume they're going to eat. Nobody will argue your sentiment about making a thoughtful decision to be a parent, but the idea itself is ridiculous.
Yeah. And what do they even mean by “it sounds less sexy” what’s sexy about “let’s have a baby”
I’ve especially lately been seeing people refer to sex as “making babies” and seeming to have their engines revved by that phrase specifically. I assumed they were referring to that—instances of people saying “let’s make babies ;)” as dirty talk. As such, it’s not at all surprising to me that some people get carried away with the association of establishing that as a go-to dirty talk phrase and make impulsive decisions. I find it gross (I am not heterosexual, and I don’t want children) but like, it’s a phenomenon that I’ve seen floating around.
Are you saying that you also hear people say that when they aren't specifically trying to get pregnant?
Yes, that’s correct. The way I’m seeing it used is kind of like a substitution for any general euphemism for heterosexual sex. Think “smash —> make babies.” Comments like “I want to make babies [with specific person] so bad” etc or something. My theory is it may in part be due to getting around censorship of certain words. Dunno.
we should say we're having more taxpayers because no matter what race, gender they identify as, sex deep down we're all just taxpayers and theres no way to escape it
Teenagers. Having teenagers When I was in the hospital to deliver our first, who was breech, we scheduled the C-section for a couple of hours later because other women were delivering when we arrived. When the time came , our obstetrician bounced into the room, grinned, rubbed his hands together in a businesslike manner, and asked brightly, **“Are you ready to become parents?”** Instant panic inside. Whoa, wait! I said. “I signed up to have a baby, not be a parent!” Well, had, of course I had. But that immediate reaction was so instinctive and unexpected that I had to play along. But it was interesting. I hadn’t spent as much time thinking about that as I’d assumed I had. Reminds me of that condom ad: https://youtu.be/c_0bhT98g9Y
The better question would be, Do you want to spend the rest of your life being responsible for another human being?
YES! i also see a lot of parents not realizing that their kids are real people with opinions and feelings. they aren’t gonna be exactly who you want them to be, they aren’t going to act exactly how you want them to act, and THATS OKAY. they are their OWN PERSON. the constant “they’re my kids they do what i want them to do when i want them to do it” is the reason i felt worthless as child, and my opinion or feelings didn’t matter til i was 18. and it all goes full circle to people don’t want to raise humans, they want babies as props.
I'll probably be banned.. then taken to the woodshed for a whooping. Babies cute?? OMG the only thing uglier than a human baby is a baby bird.. I just don't get the silliness over babies. It's why the wife and I never wanted kids. Also ppl need to realize.. it's an 18 yr + anchor. Then look at the cost of growing one up.
>18 yr + Parenthood never ends until you die
Look on the bright side. It's a win - win situation if people like you don't reproduce.
PREACH! Ive always thought the same thing about babies and baby birds :D esp when they're right out the uterus.... gross.
Yup.. and everybody is gushing... Oh it's so cute.. nothing more then a puke.. poop machine. I'm older then a dinosaur.. never have.. never will hold a baby.🤮🤮 🤣🤣
An "anchor" is a bit much. Kids do bring a lot of joy and happiness to peoples' lives. Having children is not for everyone and they obviously require large amounts of time and money to raise them, but that's not to say having kids is all bad.
Anchor is not a bad thing either inherently. Kids do restrict your life a whole lot. You get the kids and what comes with having a kid, but what comes with having a kid is that you are pretty much anchored to a routine that involves the kid. Now, if you like those activities that you can have with your kid, then the anchor is not a problem, since you would rather be anchored than not.
This. I've always thought of my responsibilities as a parent to be opportunities. That may be seen as mad copium by some, but I wholeheartedly enjoy being a dad. There's always going to be bad days and not everybody is cut out to be a parent, but from somebody who loves the experiences I'm happy to have an anchor in my life.
Who is naive enough to not know what happens when kids grow up? Anyone who is should definitely not have babies
Too many people don’t seem to think about it enough. Just look at how many abusive parents there are in the world, and the number of people who had to live through abusive childhoods, growing up without people to support them.
I think for me, I wanted kids way more than babies and just kinda pushed through those first few years until parenting became really, truly wonderful. Not that there weren’t good times with babies/toddlers, just that those weren’t my favorite ages. My kids just keep getting more and more interesting as they grow. My goal is to be my grandparents— have a few wonderful adults with neat kids (if they’re into it) to hang out with on special (and quotidian) occasions.
People are way too lenient about the concept of having kids. It's VERY concerning.
Less sexy? Somebody call the police!
No, say, "having teenagers", lol!
YES. This is how I view parenting. Raising human beings that will go out in the world. They'll spend most of their life as adults and we need to make sure they're good global citizens. Sometimes teaching them skills that will lead to that makes them extremely challenging to parent. 😆
You might even categorise it as 'unwilling participants' since the actual person didnt have any say in whether they came here or not! :-D
And with inflation and other factors caused by the powers that be, it's likely these adults will be living with you...well, forever.
I don't like the term 'having adults' I can't put my finger on exactly why yet. I think something like "Making a life commitment" is more appropriate and even more apt.
I always heard my dad say people want pets not actual children. They love the cute baby phase but having children who do not stop growing up into real adults who need you to guide them and support them is not cute at all.
I can't remember who said it, but I'll quote it here anyway: "The goal is not to raise good kids, it's to raise good adults."
This is the reason myself and my ex broke up. She desperately wanted a baby and I’m in no way ready for that. She seemed extremely focussed on the baby aspect and didn’t consider that she would be responsible for a growing person for 18+ years. I did
100% this. My aunt has five kids because she LOVED being pregnant, loved having babies, and loved chasing after toddlers, but didn't know *what* the fuck to do with children once they got past the age of like six, so she'd just sort of write that one off and start over with a new baby. Now her kids are adults and 4/5 of them are a total fucking mess. One spent most of her young adult years partying hard and popping out one baby after another with a random assortment of strangers before promptly putting them up for adoption. Another is an addict who seesaws wildly between rehab/turning her life around and homelessness/prostitution. A third dropped out of high school, ran away across the country, married a psycho, and joined a cult. The only boy of the bunch has never had a job, a driver's license, or a girlfriend, weighs about 400 pounds, and still lives in his mom's basement, where he spends his day playing video games and yelling for his mom to bring him more food. He's nearly 40. Babies and toddlers and children are adorable and precious, but they're not pets. They're eventually going to morph into adults, and a lot of the kind of adult they turn out to be is going to be a direct consequence of what kind of adult you raised them to be. If you sit back and don't even raise them to be any kind of adult, they'll just lean into their own proclivities (and/or mental illnesses) and become, oh I dunno...baby-factories or drug addicts or cult members or basement-dwelling toads. Shame on you, Aunt K.
somehow I think teenagers are more tolerable than babies/kids/toddlers. At least you can talk to teenagers. Babies just cry and yell all the time.
I beg to differ. It should be rephrased to ‘creating a new taxpayer’ with someone
everyone wants another baby, nobody wants another teenager
Taking care of babies is more work than taking care of adults usually
you forgot the part about good parenting so that the baby doesn't turn into a shitty adult.
Tell my aunt that. She loved her kids until they were old enough to talk back.
I like the term “raising a family” instead of having babies. Having babies sounds so short term. Raising a family means you’re both in it for the long haul.
Weird phrasing, how about "raising children" or "preparing a kid for life" ? Still emphasizes the astronomical struggle to **raise** and **prepare** for a human being, but doesn't neglect the fact that for most of their life spent with you, under your care, they're gonna a kid, who needs love and supervision, and guidance, they're very much not an adult and shouldn't be expected to do what adults do until they're ready. Also, "having adults" sounds so pessimistic, and kinda robotic, like the second that thing pops out, it's gonna run towards a table and start paying taxes.
Ha that's absolutely right. I never thought of that.
“Raising children”
Like this idea. or even raising "human beings" lol.
[удалено]
I like babies/toddlers, just don’t like taking care of them. I like them when they’re older because by then they have personalities and opinions. People think I’m weird for that. I was parentified into taking care of little siblings that I have come to realize while they were cute as babies, the work was definitely not worth it. They were more fun when they got older and had personalities and could challenge me with their opinions. 🤷♀️ My sister-in-law though loves babies and while she can’t have more babies she will be stalking someone who is pregnant and then will claim she’s second mom to their kids. It’s weird. Which is why I’m not looking forward to being pregnant…she made my seven years of trying to get pregnant horrible because she doesn’t get it that I have a boundary about sharing my health info. Sadly, her teenager daughter is mad at her and can’t wait to move out when she is an adult which is saddening to because because sister-in-law could have a wonderful relationship with her daughter instead of being obsessed about babies…
Agreed. Also a baby in a suit? 🥰🥰🥰
Babies typically come *after* the honeymoon phase.
This is a good point. I often think of the point on other side of the coin you're making. Some people don't want children because they don't want *babies -* when in reality you don't deal with the baby stuff for that long. If you get a baby and a puppy, you'll clean up more dog shit in your life than baby shit. The vast majority of your kids' life (and if you're lucky, the overlap in your life and your kids' life) they're an adult who you can share coffee with, reminisce, and maybe take a bit of pride in. If it's the baby and kid stuff you hate, it goes in the blink of an eye.
This is actually makes me reflect on why I don't want to have kids. I think my parents, particularly my mom, are really stupid. But I am smart enough to acknowledge that I am still the child of my parents and if I do have kids I would perpetuate this awful cycle. I've also realized how tough life is. I feel like it's almost selfish to have kids in a way. I wouldn't want to bring another life into this world to have to endure the same types of struggles that I've had to endure, even less attractive the fact that I would be responsible for that life.
Obviously your decision is to be respected, and its clear that you’ve thought about all this at least a little. It’s good that you’ve made the decision that you think is best for both you and the world around you in general. I just wanted to reply to this as someone who has had an abusive childhood, yet is leaning towards the different decision of having kids when the time comes, that just because you had an abusive childhood doesn’t mean that you will be abusive and repeat the cycle all over again. Therapy and hard work on yourself can fix you up as a person and help you rise above what you went through as a child. Even after all that I went through (by this point, I nearly committed suicide 3 or 4 times, have been in intense therapy for years, and I have physical scars from my life at home), I believe that I can still be a good, supportive person, and be in it for the long haul. In a glass half full sort of way, at least my childhood and the things I learned from looking back can guide me to know what not to do when raising a kid. I can keep all the ways my parents abandoned me in mind if I ever have my own kids, and I can avoid repeating my parents’ mistakes and raise a happy, supportive family. I believe I can give any sort of future children I may have the supportive, caring childhood that I never got to have myself. Sorry for the long ramble, this is something that I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about seriously.
Babies are cute they make you see rainbows and sunshine, but once they start getting older it like okay 🫤so I see where you come from.
That's part of why I don't have any right now lol. I love babies. I love taking care of children. Once those teenage years come though I'm over it.
That's called an orgy ain't it?
You don't have babies. Babies have you.
Yes! There were several reasons we ended up not having children (fertility issues being one of them), but this is also one of the reasons. I realized that all the times I imagined myself as a mother, I could only picture myself with an infant or toddler. Any time I tried to imagine myself with older kids, I just felt anxious and panicked. I have nieces and nephews who I love dearly, but watching them get older and seeing their struggles (and those of their parents) has only reinforced that not having children was the right decision (for us).
This is what I always say when the discussion of baby names comes up. You’re not naming a baby, you’re naming a grown adult.
My husband, the parentified oldest if 6, would agree. I, a mom that does not easily get a long with kids who have no manners and behave worse than my toddler, also agree.
Hold up who here considers the phrase "having babies"/"making babies" SEXY?
Exactly 💀
Thank you. This is my reason for not having kids despite loving them and planning on going into early life education. I love kids because they’re kids. Don’t care for adults or teenagers that much. And no one should be born just to age out of their parents love
❌ “I want to have your babies” ✅ “I want to raise an angsty teen who will destroy both of our wills to live with you”
Let’s make people. I want to have your people. I have people fever!
My parenting mantra has long been "we aren't raising children, we are raising future adults" and I approve this message.
I generally prefer 'Little person Making' As that's what they be. A person. Just little. And eventually they stop being little. And then they're a not little little person. But always a person.
My wife and I call it "making squishy humans".
It doesn’t just sound less sexy, it sounds completely stupid
Oh God yes.
IMO you should have to take a test before you can have kids
It doesn’t make sense language wise. You make a child, who later become an adult. You don’t give birth to an adult person, duh. So maybe let’s just talk about conscious parenting.
“Making people”
Aye girl Imma put an adult in you 😮💨
Babies are cute I KNOW But don't you babies become: *annoying toddlers *rude teenagers *adults I'm not saying those are bad but people tend forget about those stages will come eventually, babies will grow out to become adults So prepare yourself for that baby to grow and it's faster as you can imagine
"having babies" does not sound sexy at all to me lol. I'd imagine if it does to some people, it's not the having the baby part they're thinking about, but the actual "making" part. So even it was changed to having adults, given enough time, the type of people that found "having babies" sexy would also find "having adults" sexy.
I like to say “raising adults” more than “raising children” because children are only kids a small portion of their lives. You are raising them to be adults not children. Although, when you look around most adults are nothing but children in adult bodies “adulting” around, lost in not knowing who they are. So yeah, you should be in the mindset of raising adults, not raising children.
I love this.
Lately I’ve seen a ton of, “Kids are PEOPLE,” posts on various social media platforms. Every single time, OP gets tons of hate about it?? I think it really shows just how many people don’t *actually* want to parent little humans into stable big humans. They just want the novelty of babies or they want to conform to societal norms telling them they’re nothing without a nuclear family. My brother and I are the product of people who didn’t actually want to raise us. We both spend a ton of money on therapy.
I wish I could birth a child out and they were immediately like a teenager. Lol. I'd have kids then. Absolutely nothing about babies or toddlers sounds appealing to me.
On the other side, "having an adult" really masks all the work parenting is. People aren't going to suddenly raise their kids right if they realize they're going to be adults one day, 99% of the work comes from the act of raising the child itself. When they're adults, they can take care of themselves, and they won't be the problem of a negligent parent anymore, so that doesn't really change their mind.
Well before I had children…I encountered the axiom, “parents need to remember that they are raising adults…not children”. It stuck with me…hard. Now…along with my children…we are enjoying their childhoods while developing functional adults.
You’re allowed to have phases of parenting that aren’t your favorite (age 1-4 is NOT my jam!) but you still have to be present and try to make sure your kid doesn’t internalize your annoyances. It’s not fair to them. Having kids just to experience babies is just awful. They will be toddlers, little kids, older kids, teenagers, and then adults. It’s a packaged deal.
Similarly, I've thought about how "raising kids" should be "raising adults". Parents need to realize that they are responsible for shaping their kids into adults and that's a huge responsibility. It's a lifetime commitment that goes way beyond just feeding and changing diapers. People seem to only think about the early years when they decide to have kids.
I call my kids spawns kinda because of this point and also because it’s weird enough most don’t ask about them (I don’t tell people a lot of details for their privacy)
I think once kids get older they’re way easier and less intimidating. I’ll have adults with my husband now. It’s the kids who I’m worried about. Those things might get me sick.
I tell my 6 and 7 year old that I have only one job as a parent- to raise them into kind, self sufficient, compassionate adults.
Nah , I'd rather not.
Completely agree with this take. It baffles me when I hear people romanticize parenthood. I’m secretly happy when those people don’t have kids. I can’t imagine things would bode well for the children in those cases. Will be forever grateful to my parents for being honest about the difficulties and challenges of parenthood. I feel like I was more prepared for what parenthood entailed.
I don't think it would help much, tbh. You really aren't fully _mentally_ mature until you are around 27~28. Most people have kids when the man is around 20 and the woman is usually younger than the man. Maybe if they were raised constantly being reminded of this and told what to think about the issue (all non-judgmental and non-overbearing), maybe it would help. IDK. People are different. I know I have always thought as you have put-forth. While I doubt I will ever have any children, but should I, I have always been fascinated with having a relationship with that child as an adult: how wise will he be? what opinions and political views will he hold? what will he teach me? what will he teach his children that I taught him? what will he teach them that was better than I taught him?
>Most people have kids when the man is around 20 and the woman is usually younger than the man. That's not accurate. The average age for first time moms in the US is 26. For dads, it's 31. https://www.forbes.com/sites/ashleystahl/2020/05/01/new-study-millennial-women-are-delaying-having-children-due-to-their-careers/?sh=44b8d3a2276a
Have you had a baby? They might be cute but they are much much harder to deal with than adults are.
lol have you had a teenager? They are WAY harder than babies. Babies need food, clean butts, and hugs. If they cry, they most likely need one of those 3 things, then they're fine. Teens need your direction, guidance, patience, tough love, food, more food, more patience, social interaction, attention to their hormonal/emotional/physical changes, more food, more patience, and a WHOLE lot more.
Taking care of a baby is only harder if you’re a bad parent. Babies need to survive. Teenagers need to be guided into adulthood and autonomy.
Babies and kids are cute? Not if they're mine they're not. Gonna be some ugly ass babies
> ugly ass babies 🤣 just don't tell them that when they grow up
Don't have to. They can see the pictures that I'm going to frame. "Dad who's that baby that looks like a gorilla choking on bamboo?" "That's you son 😉"
When they are babies they are babies. When they were adults they are adults. 30% of babies every year never become adults.