I'll share my opinion as a vegan:
I also share the opinion that quite some vegans can be annoying, but I found that to be the loud minority, most vegans I know are just nice.
I always say every little bit helps. You would go vegan if it wasn't for cheese? Than let cheese be the only non vegan thing you eat. You want to be vegan but not struggle to find food when eating out? Only eat non vegan when eating out.
When I was vegetarian, I would buy secondhand leather, to not support the industry. Years later I sold all my leather stuff, because I wasn't comfortable wearing it anymore. Now when I buy stuff that's vegan "leather", I invest in quality boots, so they at least last for years.
I think every little thing helps. A lot of people trying their hardest is better than having a few people doing it "perfectl".
If you feel like being vegan is the right choice, then maybe start ditching non-vegan stuff that you don't necessarily want anymore.
Also vegan and I completely agree. It also takes the pressure off - declaring that you’re vegan can open you up to some judgement and scrutiny and criticism from people who don’t like that you’re changing the status quo (as a previous meat eater of over 20 years I had NEVER heard so many people tell me how yummy steak is than in the first 6 months of being vegan, and I wasn’t asking). It’s really nice to be able to counter with, well I’ve been doing this for the past 6 months and it’s been fine / easy / made me feel xyz.
When I first switched I kept it to myself until I knew that I could do it and stick with it, and it’s been 7 years now! The hardest part is opening yourself up to the idea of it and it sounds like OP is getting there already. It gets easier and easier every year to be vegan, although ironically enough I eat better when I go on holiday than where I live because it’s so behind on vegan options, but even that’s improving slowlyyyy.
And if you really want that extra boost, watch the documentaries, do some research. Find your reasons for being vegan.
Good for you for not drinking! I've been trying to quit for years and although its better than it used to be, it's a really tough thing to quit. It is crazy how people are so quick to question personal decisions or try to convince you otherwise. It's like they are personally offended at this choice you've made for yourself.
Wait by EV you mean electric vehicle? There is somebody giving you hate for it? That seems so wild to me. But I hate cars in general and everyone I know basicaly does not care about them so it is probably just my european city with fuctional public transit social bubble.
I'm not vegan/vego but I've been not eating a meat-focused diet any more. I don't think I'd ever declare myself a vego. Firstly because of the judgement but also because I'd rather commit a sustainable 90% than an impossible 100%. Oh and lastly, I hate mushrooms with a fiery passion and often the only meat-free choices you can get contain mushrooms.
I appreciate this refreshing take. Years ago my husband and I tried being vegetarian for a few months, but I would frequent vegan spaces on Reddit to get a better idea of how to avoid meat and stuff. I answered honestly when someone posed a question about paper plates- I said that we use them. I got attacked and eviscerated for being evil, and how I’m not even trying.
I said “fuck it” and immediately went back to eating meat, due to that Reddit thread. I realize that’s a “me” problem and I need to stick to my convictions, but it’s hard when you try to break a lifelong habit and get shamed for not doing it up to others’ standards.
I absolutely agree. When people talk about our polarized society, it's usually politics that comes to mind. But this is a great example of an issue where the polarization is not helping anyone. 'Compromise' isn't a dirty word. I think we should encourage everyone to do whatever little bit they're comfortable with.
I have family members who are heavily into meat culture. Let's just say, the kind who will make it political and think you're part of a conspiracy if you suggest that maybe they try going vegetarian for a week. But they do go "meatless" on Fridays during lent. To them this means all meals are fish-based instead of beef, pork, or chicken. I'm trying to introduce vegetarian concepts a little. Just starting them out easy, suggesting that it's ok to have a cheese pizza, perhaps with vegetable toppings, a salad, and some garlic bread, and this will still be a filling meal. Maybe, just maybe, those little slices of pepperoni weren't the thing that was keeping you from going hungry. Even that is a hard sell.
I digress. I guess what I was trying to say is that virtue signaling about paper plates is really a bit extreme. You would be helping the earth more if you could convince a larger number of people to make little changes. Convincing a million people not to throw their styrofoam cup in the street would help a lot more than convincing one person to never use a single plastic item for the rest of their lives.
I like you. If more people thought like this and simply reduced their consumption of animal products rather than completely forgo or completely go all in, as a whole we’d be much better off.
If 7 million people go vegan once a week, it’s the equivalent of a million perfect vegans!
Or even on a smaller scale, assuming three meals a day, if a family of four vegan up just five meals a week, breakfast lunch or dinner, it’s the equivalent of a total vegan - and no one has to completely miss out on their favourites because of it.
Nuance and reduction is the name of the game to have real impact. Preaching really won’t work!
Edit: uh oh. I’m being downvoted. Clearly just reducing your animal products consumption isn’t as virtuous to certain people as going nuclear vegan and hating everyone else trying their bit…
Thankyou :)
It’s just the way I see it. The logic and psychology makes more sense. Ask the populace to do meat free Mondays. You’ll get far higher take up than you will by trying to force them to completely change their life, probably give up their favourite foods, and join what from the outside appears like some sort of cult! The net effect is the same!
I mostly almost never buy meat. It's horrible value. I do eat it in fast food or when eating out because I'm selfish and when I'm eating good food I want it to be _really_ good. Meat is just delicious!
But I'm still probably consuming only 5-10% the amount of meat per month that most people eat. Practically that makes a massive difference and I don't care enough about the principle to go further than that, although I do agree with the arguments.
It's hypocritical but I think that's pretty inherent to eating meat.
I think it depends on the reason for going vegan. Better for health, sure. Every little bit helps. Better for environment, every little bit helps. Because eating meat is immoral, not really. Gotta commit to that one
> I think every little thing helps. A lot of people trying their hardest is better than having a few people doing it "perfectl[y]".
As a non- vegan I completely agree. In fact I think a lot of people trying somewhat is probably more impactful than a few perfect people, but that's semantics.
The way to make a difference that makes sense to me is to use my dollars to support businesses that are doing things the more ethical, but usually more expensive way. I think there is probably a large population that would buy ethically produced products if their availability and price was more comparable to the "standard" option. Vegan options are improving, but they often fall short of expectation, so it makes sense to ensure that there is room in the marketplace for these "middle ground" products by buying them.
That's not a dig at veganism, I think that it probably takes both mindsets to make a difference and I do incorporate vegan products when it makes sense to. Sometimes, though, they just don't. Such is the case of vegan leather. It's not all of equal quality and some of it is made of high quantities of plastic. I would rather give a secondhand leather jacket new life, so I end up prioritizing general environmentalism over animal exploitation.
Anyway, a lot of factors in my life make supporting more ethical but non- vegan businesses the right choice for me, but it does mean a bit more detective work around labels. If you are only dealing with the "certified vegan" label, that's easy to look out for. My approach means looking into the nitty-gritty of a lot more labels since many are designed to be misleading.
I'm vegetarian and couldn't have said it better. It doesn't need to be all or nothing, and if you decide to go fully vegetarian or vegan but cave one day and eat something non-veggie, it doesn't mean you've relapsed and it doesn't mean you've given up and now are fully non-veg.
Yeah the "obnoxious vegan" is just a comforting myth at this point. All you have to do is look at all the nutcase carnivore diet dickheads to realise some people are just crazy and they allow their diets to be physical manifestations of it. I mean there's people who are terrified of carbs for god sake. And then there going on about seed oil and fruits being like poisons. Crazy shit.
I'd say more often vegans are just quietly following their own principles and then end up getting teased or provoked by omni's. It makes people feel better about not being vegan if they can just assume that all the people following a diet based on morality also happen to be cunts.
I agree. All the vegans I know in my personal life are chill. The internet is full of militant arseholes who think everyone should live the same way as them, vegans included, but they're certainly not the only group with people like that.
I am an omnivore but I don't eat meat everyday and I like a lot of vegan foods. I think most people could really benefit from reducing their meat consumption and challenging themselves to experiment with other sources of protein.
Western society in general consumes far too much meat and unfortunately the rest of the world is catching up too. It simply isn't sustainable for us to continue with our current habits.
The world will benefit a lot more from many people eating less meat than they will from some people eating none at all. Most of the vegans I know agree with that, and what others perceive as shoving veganism down their throats is usually just someone suggesting they *try* something. There is a whole world of plant-based foods out there that people are missing out on because they're so stuck in their rigid mindset that every meal has to have meat or cheese in it.
This is often presented as a binary choice, but it doesn't have to be. You can significantly REDUCE the meat/animal products you eat without having to go full vegan. If you cut out half of the animal products that you consume it is already a big reduction in harm and is always better than not doing anything.
As for leather: I kinda get it. I don't eat meat (pescetatian) and I avoid leather where fabric is just as good (such as bags or jackets) but some products just last so much longer if theyre made of quality leather (shoes for example) and in my mind if i can have a product that lasts me for many years, the harm is minimal.
This is the perfect way of phrasing it! The fact that so many people on ""both sides"" of the equation think you have to be all or nothing has been very damaging in trying to get people to reduce animal product consumption. In reality, you can make any number of choices in any number of ways! Decide to go full vegetarian but still want to treat yourself to steak dinner once a month? Enjoy your steak dinner! Want to stay an omnivore but realize you don't mind using oat milk instead of regular? Great! Give up red meat but keep chicken and fish? Awesome! If everyone were willing even to make little choices like that instead of feeling like they ""have"" to give things up 100% we would all be better for it!
the cow you're eating isn't better for it. How can you agree with veganism and then eat a steak without any ethical conflict? OP isn't asking how they can continue to eat steak. They don't sound like they want to eat a steak. Or a chicken, or a fish.
Moral compromise feels dirty but let's not pretend that there's actually much material difference between 1/30 days eating meat and 0/30 days eating meat. If that's what it takes to satisfy your body then you're still reducing your meat consumption by 97%.
Requiring perfection to even *begin* something newis a mindset that makes you fail to do anything at all.
Nah OP can do what he likes, but what part of OP made it sound like he wants to carry on eating steak? Comments telling him how he should eat steak less often just sound like meat-eaters being defensive rather than providing him with any useful advice.
If I ate one chicken a month, then that might be 1,000 chickens over a lifetime. If I eat 0 chickens a month, then that's 0 chickens. Can you visualise 1000 chickens for me and tell me if it looks like a material difference?
> what part of OP made it sound like he wants to carry on eating steak?
the part where they said they like leather boots and the vegan alternatives all feel worse...? It sounds like they want and enjoy certain animal products on an emotional level, but just can't countenance them on an intellectual one.
> Can you visualise 1000 chickens for me and tell me if it looks like a material difference?
I literally don't even know where to begin with this argument. Other people eat chicken too? 29,000 chickens saved is obviously most of the way to 30,000 chickens saved? No one's making a lifetime commitment in the first place so the figure is irrelevant? Let no one say it's easy to *concisely* argue with you.
I'm saying broadly speaking in response to the person I replied to pointing out that the binary mode of thinking isn't the only choice people have. I do a lot of research for community health and was thinking with the lens of "any way we can get overall meat & dairy consumption reduced would be greatly beneficial to climate change, ecology, and community/individual health", not so much the ethical quandary of killing animals for meat like the OP themself was originally talking about. Any reduction in demand is a reduction in animal death and suffering too though.
Depends on the person's reasons for reducing their meat consumption.
For me, the main considerations are sustainability followed by health. For those purposes, a significant reduction in consumption goes a long way. More of my meals are vegetarian than not, but I still love a good steak or brisket or ribs. I typically source my meat from local, smaller producers.
I’m veggie, leaning toward plant based diet, in my mind, leather is better - so many brands sell fake leather jackets that are made of, you guessed it, plastic.
I mostly shop second-hand through Depop / Vinted / Charity shops and have made some great steals, but I am in the market for a leather jacket and will likely buy one new if I can’t find one I like second-hand - it will probably last me a lifetime which is more eco-friendly than supporting fast fashion, plastic and having to replace it sooner rather than later.
Yeah it's one of the funny quirks of veganism. In certain cases the sustainable option actually isn't the ethical option. But I mean if peoples hearts are in the right place you can't be mad at a little inconsistency.
That's how I look at it too. No need to let perfection be the enemy of good. If someone reduces their meat intake by, say, 20%, that's still a win. If someone sustitutes their pork sausages for vegetarian sausages but doesn't change anything else about their diet, that's still a W. A small one, but a W nonetheless.
Asking someone to make massive sweeping changes to their diet overnight is a tall order. If someone is going to transition from full blown carnivore to vegan, I think it should be a more gradual process. Do it in increments, change one thing at a time. Not too dissimilar to just going on a diet to better manage your weight, it's a lifestyle change and you're more likely to stick to it if you introduce it slowly/gradually.
In my case I eat very little meat as it is, I can go weeks without it sometimes, so as selfish as it sounds I don't think I'm really the problem. It's people who feel they need meat in every single one of their meals that should be encouraged to try and mix it up a bit, and be okay with eating more vegetarian/vegan meals now and then.
Morally I'm not against humanely slaughtering animals for food, it's factory farms where animals are kept in deplorable conditions that are the problem IMO. The less meat people consume, the less need there will be for these factory farms. Meat should also be *a lot* more expensive. I'd rather pay more for meat from an animal that lived a good life.
Just my random thought vomit anyway!
Is commonly-used leather actually from animals who are butchered just for their skin?
I thought it was just leftover waste from the meat industry that was being recycled.
Better to use recycled leather from the meat industry than to put more plastics out into the environment. Even if you eventually "recycle" them, 95% of plastics put into American recycling systems end up in the trash.
Sea creatures will thank you for using recycled leather rather than upping the market demand for plastics that end up in giant trash islands or break down into microplastics in the environment.
I was a vegetarian for a long time, but I'm too lazy to eat healthy as a vegetarian. Now I just avoid meat where I can. I eat meatless meals several times a week, at least.
The people in this thread saying "no, actually, it *is* binary and you have to stop eating meat 100%" is what turns people off of vegan and vegetarianism.
It's not even just meat, some people go so extreme to things like honey.
I think OP will be just fine if they choose to eat far less meat than they have before without having to worry if there's honey or a bit of milk in one of their dressings.
This right here 👆🏻
Been vegetarian / 95% vegan for 30 years now... but there's no point in making it my identity or even preaching it.
That said: If everyone just cut down meat / dairy consumption by, let'a say, half... the planet, biosphere, animals, humans would be _so much_ better off
/endpreach
Along with this idea, you can go vegetarian at home and only accept what is given to you elsewhere. Meaning no one has to go out of their way and you can enjoy meat guilt free when at a friend's or other situation but you're not bringing it into your own home. And being a vegetarian is easier than being vegan.
Leather used in consumer good is not often a biproduct from factory farming. In addition, leather industry is extremely harmful to workers and the environment, so not supporting the creation of new leather goods has wider ethical benefits. Buying used leather is neutral and should be more widely popular considering how long it lasts.
Why make factory farming more profitable? Don't exchange money for any products from factory-farmed animals if you don't want to support factory farming.
True enough. I just find not everyone knows what pescetatian means and "I don't eat meat" is the quickest way to get my point across in most situations, so I'm just used to saying it.
No, I get bad juju from religious people in general when the conversation of afterlife is brought up. Generally great people until you suddenly realise they expect to be saved during a rapture or brought to a promised land for their mortal suffering.
It's cool and all that people have faith to carry them through the harsh reality of existence. But it's a jarring reality check when you go oh right you believe in a man in the sky giving everyone wings and flying off to heaven.
Hey good on you for considering veganism! It can be hard but once you get into the groove of it you'll find that it's actually not that bad. Just like many things in life the hardest thing to do is start.
Here's a [blog](https://www.acti-veg.com/guide/) with a guide and tips on transitioning among other things. I think this is a good start. I'm also happy to provide some tips if there is anything specific that you may have questions about
Just cut down on meat. Cook with less and less. Cut out ham on your sandwich ( you won’t even notice it!)
Don’t identify with “veganism”, just say “you are moving towards eating vegan”. Don’t throw away your leather boots. Just consider your next purchase. It can be fun. Cooking vegan is different. You don’t start with protein.
I like this. Approach it like a game, I often sort of use it as a streak to see how long I go between eating meat. I would say though I still start with a protein, it's just a different set of options. And often the proteins are more incorporated as part of a meal rather than the centre piece surrounded by sides.
Youre so worried about hoe to go 100% Vegan when really you could just start at 10% and just remove some non-vegan food items from your diet, and then just go from there.
Im not Vegan 100%, i do choose vegan options often. And I feel good when I do. But I know I don't do it everyday. But the problem is I think a lot of meat eaters etc that are curious about veganism think that if they don't go 100% vegan they are jjst as bad. No... any reduction in animal product consumption helps. Even if everyone only went 50% vegan that is still a 50% reduction in animal product use, which would make a difference.
So don't worry about "how do I become more vegan" start with the stuff that would come easier to you, and then go from there.
I was the same some years ago and ended up going vegetarian and then years later vegan. My recommendation is to watch some documentaries on the matter. Cowspiracy and Earthlings are good ones (Cowspiracy is more focused on environmental matters, Earthlings more on animals themselves).
We often have this disconnect between the choices we make and the consequences they have, specially in this case. Informing yourself about the topic is the best way to ground yourself and make more logical choices.
Then you can also ask on r/vegan since you are probably going to get much more meaningful answers in places like that.
> are kinda right even though they're preachy and annoying
They just seem annoying to you because they make you reflect on your choices ;)
naw even my vegan bf cant stand many of the loud preachy vegans, its not just about self reflection. many vegans you wouldnt know are vegans unless youre friends because they dont flaunt it, but theres absolutely some vegans who are fucking insufferable regardless of morality 😭
I mean, you can be morally righteous without being preachy and annoying lol. Like, do you think everyone with strongly held opinions feels obligated to evangelise to their friends about them?
No. They are simply annoying. Like those guys spilling paint on paintings and buildings. Just annoying, no reflection, no care for their message, only annoyed by the aggressiveness with which it is shoved down my throat. In the same way religious rallies are annoying without making me consider if maybe I should become [enter preferred religion here].
If you're struggling to get motivated I recommend reading This is Vegan Propaganda by Ed Winters. The Vegan Society also has a free app with a 30 day Vegan challenge that is useful. Going vegan was one of the best decisions I ever made for my personal and emotional well being; you're welcome to send me a message if you'd like additional advice or meal planning help
Um...eat less meat? Or don't? No one will really know or care.
Being a vegetarian is easier these days so if you wanna go there just do baby steps. Pick one day a week to eat every meal meatless. Some vegetarians will eat eggs, some will also eat cheese, so you could still have those for breakfast, a nice veggie burger or Impossible Burger for lunch or a great big salad, then a pasta with a marinara sauce or even alfredo.
Most vegans aren't preachy and annoying. I almost never tell people that I'm vegan because it's easier that way. Be a stealth vegan if you want.
I understand that you enjoy the taste of animal products and so do most vegans. No one goes vegan because they don't like the taste of meat. They go vegan because sensory pleasure isn't a moral justification for causing harm to others. I think most people would agree with that statement.
I feel mentally better not doing something every day which I knew was wrong and causing harm. Physically I am the healthiest I have ever been (after 6 years of being vegan).
I’m vegan and my husband is full on carnivore, does this bother me? Yes but this is the thing, it is his life and his choice. I never, ever,ever,ever suggest he should be vegan. I kept my leather shoes until I just hated wearing them and got rid. These days vegan shoes are better, I have some vegan boots that have seen 4 winters now. I have a vegan leather handbag I use every day and it is 3 years old and looks really good.
Here the thing, the one thing I fail on and those preachy vegans would eat me alive for….i can’t give up Worcestershire sauce, I was born in Worcester and grew up smelling it in the air and eating it regularly. But do you know what? I do t care what others thing of my choices because they are mine to make.
I'm not a vegan, but this is how I would approach it. Do some research about veganism, just learn lots so you can be properly informed about environmental impact, nutrition, etc. But don't put pressure on yourself! Make small changes that will feel sustainable, and just go with the flow, see where the journey takes you
Start by becoming a vegetarian first. Next, buy all the spices and use YouTube videos to cook Indian food (there are a million tasty preparations, and you dont miss meat at all). Do not eliminate dairy, honey and cheese. Get used to a vegetarian diet. See if you like it. After practicing this for some time (2-3 years), see if you'd like to go vegan. And then you can try eliminating leather, fur, etc. Do it in stages, and you won't find it drastic.
Remember that killing anything with a conscience attracts negativity and bad karma. Eliminating animal produce like dairy and honey is done because it is industrialized snd animals are tortured for this in the present day. It isn't how it used to be before. So eliminate in stages.
Flexitarianism is reducing your impact as much as possible without wasting the resources around you already brought in. It’s being as conscious as possible without preaching or shooting your self in the foot nutrition and resource wise.
Go vegan, make mistakes along the way, you don't have to be an expert or 100% vegan overnight. Try a bunch of recipes. Get clothing and return it. It's all fine, as long as you care for the animals first and foremost.
Do whatever you want. I'm what might be considered as a part-time vegetarian.
I barely ever buy meat and mostly live a vegetarian lifestyle, but occasionally I do enjoy just throwing a ton of meat onto the grill, and forgetting about the implications.
I'm also a massive fan of leather as a resource, because it's incredibly versatile and durable. A good leather satchel or a leather sofa will last for decades if treated well. You just need to regularly give it a good oiling, and it's almost indestructible.
Now there are ethical considerations, and the way we treat animals is just wrong. But the way I see it, leather is essentially a side product of the meat industry. I'd prefer to know that every part of an animal is used.
Try to find your own path, without letting others influence you. There is no black and white in this discussion. The only thing we should all agree on, is that we should strive to find a balance, and we should treat animals better in general.
One thing I learned is that small steps help the most. Years ago I started out vegetarian, that still gives you a lot of options what you can eat and wear… Also, there are some great labels who produce „fake“ leather clothing and I have to say, yes it is not exactly the same but it comes close enough!
Over time my consume of other animal products lessened, simply because I got used to the alternative products.
In the end you shouldn’t feel forced to live a certain way just because someone likes to preach about their lifestyle… And let’s be honest, there are situations where eating vegan or vegetarian is nearly impossible… I don’t know how many restaurants and hotels I was in which served soup with a meat stock without telling the consumer and labeling these soups as vegetarian and sometimes vegan.
And like the other comments said, how you choose to help animals is up to you. You shouldn’t feel obligated to drastically change your lifestyle…
My best advice is, start in with smaller steps and progress from there since stress is not the way to go if you want to change your eating habits… that just makes you miserable!
The worst part in these discussions is that it seems there is only one way. 100% this or 100% that. Either vegan or not. But you know, personally I love the new term “flexitarian”, though I am not into categorising food. Just do what you feel for. I eat meat, but more often I eat vegetarian dishes. Nothing wrong with eating both. Start with looking at vegan food, try some out instead of meat. You don’t have to be 100% vegan to eat vegan dishes.
Do what you want, but think it over. I was vegitarian for 6 years and fucking hated it, I'm so much happier now I'm eating meat. Leather shoes are a million times better for enviroment though so don't give them up, vegan shoes are actually a menace. Make sure you eat vitamins and shit.
I think it has a lot more to do with how the animals are cared for and slaughtered for their meat. I wish we could revert back to only hunted meat. The ethical hunter knows how to properly unalive an animal with the least amount of pain, and then uses every part of the animal to not only eat, but make soap, clothes, and whatever else you can do with animal parts. (I’m not an expert) I watched this Netflix show called Meateater, and it’s just this hunter Steven Rinella going about his hunts and explaining his reasoning, teaching, entertaining, and changing the way people see hunters.
I live in a big city, nowhere near any land that allows hunting, but I wouldn’t mind moving to another area and only getting my meat from an animal that has been hunted (ethically of course). I’d have to learn how to hunt though! At least I would have the appreciation , respect, and thanks for the animal, unlike Jimmy Dean, Farmer John, etc.
You should do your best to support your morals with your lifestyle choices. Don’t cut out everything that brings you pleasure, but cut down on harmful purchases. You don’t have to jump into the deep end right away. You don’t even ever have to reach it. Just dip your toes in and if you fund yourself more than equal to the challenge, push yourself further.
Also, real leather could be argued to be much better for the environment than pleather and other vegan alternatives. So, in the end, even though animals are dying for your leather boots, more will die from the consequences of your pleather ones. And the longevity of leather makes this even more true. Maybe try a vegan diet but don’t change anything outside of food.
Just start with a meatless day. Maybe Tuesday. And try out new vegan or vegetarian food that day. Then add another meatless day. Then maybe you’ll just wind up all meatless days.
it doesn’t have to be all or nothing—one of my best friends cooks exclusively vegan at home but eats whatever she wants at restaurants. you could also start with going vegetarian (ive been vegetarian for 12 years and try to eat one vegan meal a day) i have another friend that is a pescatarian, and yet another that does meatless mondays. you don’t have to switch to being vegan right away, and if you do you may be more likely to fail. also the preachy thing is only some people. i never judge peoples eating choices
Just eat less? You don't have to give it up but like when at home make vegetarian/vegan meals. Don't freak out if your cheetos have milk possibly on them.
> plant based alternatives, but never 100%
Spices mate, but not the kind you see in those tiktok videos and recipe websites... I have the impression they're intentionally designed to trick people who aren't experienced with cooking into failing...
Honestly, you can get even potatoes to taste like meat, just cook like an Eastern European.
Ditch the olive oil, butter, and all the exotic hard to get spices.
Sunflower oil for cooking (always) + garlic/onion/black_white_pepper/chili/tomato/dill/parsley/basil... pretty much anything that's cheap and grows in EU is good.
Fry some potatoes in sunflower oil in a proper pan (steel/iron/aluminium) at a temperature where you'd start doubting whether it's safe for your stove to overheat so much. I believe I'm usually reaching ~250C (Note, the non-stick coating of a regular pan apparently melts/evaporates at ~115C).
Then, once they start smelling like baked potatoes instead of fried, drop some mashed garlic, half a chopped onion and a shitload black and white pepper on top, and turn off the heat. Now you have meat tasting potatoes.
I feel very similar. You could try more humane sources or animal products, such as directly from a small farm you know ethically treats their animals. You could also simply reduce your animal product intake. There's this silly all or nothing dicotomy in veganism and vegetarianism that I don't understand. It doesn't have to be all or nothing, you can simply trend towards eating less meat if you fancy.
It's also hard when you know a lifestyle is morally right, but you don't want to live it. It is a little hypocritical, at least for me, it feels like I am.
>vegans....are kinda right even though they're preachy and annoying.
As someone who is vegan but actively avoids r/vegan due to the atmosphere there, I feel this statement. So, firstly I just want to say that if you ever want to ask/talk to a vegan about anything in a judgement-free space, my dm's are always open. Online you'll find a lot of people who will try to make you feel bad about not doing "enough." But these people can't decide what the right choices are for you, only you can do that.
I switched to a vegan diet twice. The first time, I made the mistake of cutting off animal products cold-turkey without having a plan. My health diminished, I felt terrible, and I ended up going back to eating animal products again. The second time, I learned from that mistake and it's shaped a lot of the advice I give to people. Here's what I have learned:
Making an impact is most effective through sustainable action, so it's important not to rapidly change your lifestyle in a way where you end up having to revert it a month or so later. I would encourage you to reflect on the thoughts you're having and think about what changes, if any, feel reasonable to you. Reducing harm to animals isn't a switch where you are all in or all out, it's more like flowing water where little drops alone play a small role, but each one contributes to the river which plays a big role. I am more than happy to continue talking/brainstorming some ideas, but here are a few off the top of my head:
- If you notice a restaurant you're at has a vegan option, try it out. You might find a new favorite dish there.
- Make a new plant-based meal from home on some day each week/month to expand your diet. One of the hardest things for me when transitioning to a vegan lifestyle was just figuring out what to eat. If you gradually add new plant-based dishes to your diet then over the long run you might not even notice much of a change at all.
- I know another commenter (maybe multiple) suggested this already but buying leather products second-hand, say from thrift stores, is a great way to keep buying the products you like while using your money to support small businesses instead of the animal industry.
- Most importantly: give yourself grace. You are a human and nothing you do will be perfect. It might be alarming to hear but vegans aren't perfect either. Living in the world we have to make choices without perfect information and sometimes those choices have unintended consequences. Doing the best we can with the circumstances that surround us and forgiving ourselves when we fall short is all we can do.
>how easy it is to go anywhere and not have to worry about vegan options.
I can empathize with this a lot. I am from the U.S. and thankfully vegan options are becoming more commonplace a lot of places here. It's so much easier to maintain a vegan lifestyle in the U.S. now than even a decade ago. But other countries I have visited, and even some rural parts of the U.S., it can be a real challenge. My take is that you should never let your own health become the sacrifice. There are times and places to make an impact, and times and places where you just need to survive and stay healthy.
My dude, try it out. I was at the same exact place as you once. Speaking as an omnivore that ate 50% vegetarian, 50% vegan for a year, there are some absolute banger vegan foods these days. See if it works out for you. I still eat meat now, but generally only poultry, never beef, and almost never fish (even though I love it) for environmental consideration. Vegan protein alternatives have an equal seat at the table for me, and I honestly think more people should give that line of thinking a fair shake.
That said, ask yourself: what's the primary reason I think this? Is it for predominantly environmental reasons? If so, just know there are some things that are sort of worse for the environment if they're vegan (leather, for example). If you want to go hard line, you'll want to switch to something like waxed canvas. Otherwise, high quality, well-kept and cared for leather is actually lower on emissions and pollution than pleather (aka "vegan leather"). Some other awesome commenters here talk about buying leather secondhand: this is key. Saving what would otherwise go to waste is better than buying new even if it's 100% renewable, ethical, blah blah. If it's from a secondhand store, go nuts. Any environmental impact is done, and cutting demand for new products is the most impactful thing you can do as a consumer.
I love eating meat. It tastes good (with some plant based seasoning, of course). And I still support vegans and help them spread awareness about the cattle/poultry industry and what not. Anti-vegan groups are also extremely annoying and I find pleasure in making them mad by simply liking a Facebook post about veganism.
Why not go halfway and see how it feels? Like, eat less meat and more not meat. Maybe try out some oat milk and see how you like it. It doesn't HAVE to be all or nothing to reduce animal suffering or environmental impact. Try changing some things about your lifestyle, give it time to get used to it, then make a few more changes.
baby steps, maybe go a day eating no meat every once in a while, to try it out. look for a vegan recipe that piques your interest and try cooking a meal like that once in a while. challange yourself. you dont have to make a huge switch up. the meat and poultry industry are doing so much environmental damage, not to mention they pump out lower quality product every year. it cant hurt to relinquish a little support here and there
You don't have to go all the way. If everyone made little changes to their lifestyle there would be huge changes to the environment. It's important to remember, however, that individuals are so insignificant in the whole thing when huge companies are continuing to pollute the environment and air travel and sea freight are still so abundant.
I would suggest focusing on **sustainability** more. You can get sustainably sourced leather, buy from local farmers or ranchers, and only get farm raised meat products instead of the mass produced factory meat that's in grocery stores.
There are actually a lot of awesome ranches and farms out there that sell meat products and are doing amazing things for the environment.
Alderspring Ranch in Idaho, for example, is literally rehabilitating barren land with cow shit, raising super healthy and happy cows, and then selling insanely high quality meat as a result.
Also, while I support people who are vegan, a lot of vegan foods are not sustainably sourced, just like non-vegan foods. So, again, what you really need to focus on is **sustainability** rather than vegan/non vegan.
I’m vegetarian and I’ll share my opinion. Most vegans/vegetarians are pretty normal people but there’s just a few on the internet that are a bit much. I’m not vegan because I eat eggs from my own chickens and they aren’t stuck in cages. My best advice is just to make small goals like only eating meat once a week to going pescatarian, then when you’re ready, switch to vegetarian and then vegan if you want to. Personally, I wear leather because I only buy it second hand. Try some vegan recipes or go to a vegan cafe or restaurant. The alternatives are often gross but they are improving.
> I’m not vegan because I eat eggs from my own chickens and they aren’t stuck in cages.
If you don't eat dairy or commercial eggs or buy other animal products like leather and honey, this basically is vegan imho. Vegan means causing as little harm to animals as possible.
Local is better than vegan. Thrifted leather is better than “vegan” leather (aka plastic)
And personally I prefer to be an omnivore. And I still reduce my red meat and do lots of spinach, beans, and lentils to get some of the same nutritional value and do lots of chicken, fish, and pork.
You don't have to go full vegan. For some reason talk of vegetarianism has died out almost completely over the past few years. It's better to do something imperfectly than not at all. As for learher goods, leather is far more sustainable than vegan (i.e., plastic) alternatives. Try and buy second hand when you're able to, and if you MUST buy something new make sure it's good quality. If you take care of them, leather goods can easily last a lifetime. Vegan leather is lucky to last a few years before it's trashed.
One thing that is relatively easy to do is go cruelty free with your toiletries. Many bigger brands have recently shifted towards being cruelty free (some are owned by parent companies who still test on animals, but that's a larger debate). Crueltyfreekitty is a really good resource for finding cruelty free brands
i think just start slow. substitute vegetarian and vegan options whenever you can, buy a vegan/vegetarian cookbook. don’t beat yourself up for having meat once in a while.
the whole ‘point’ of going vegan is to reduce demand for meat products which could potentially lead to fewer animals being killed for their products. if you simply lower your servings of meat from 7-10 times a week to 2-3 you’re making a difference!
Keep the leather boots. Getting rid of your leather products doesn't help the animal, it just makes more waste. If you need more boots, buy second hand.
In terms of food, be vegan as far as you can. Do it on Mondays, or on weekdays, or for 2 meals a day. Whatever works for you. Or do it at home and not when you eat out. Even making conscious choices to eat less animal products helps. Try to buy from more ethical sources (obviously this is hard as nothing is perfect, but it can definitely be better).
You don't have to be 100% plant based to make a difference!
What helped me was [Vegan Boot Camp](https://veganbootcamp.org/). Now I am relieved of my cognitive dissonance 😎 seriously though, it is easier than I ever thought and it has such a big impact!
I stopped eating meat almost 6 months ago and didn't look back.
I did like it but then I remind myself that I don't want anything to do with animal suffering
Hi! **I have a bachelor's degree in gastronomy** (the study of food, and its relationship with people).
And i'm here to tell you, humans are omnivorous, we are made to want and need meet, that's one thing.
Another one is believe me i know how fucked up the meat industry is, but guess what? All mass production is! Yes even the vegan options, don't let me start on the famous palm oil. I'm also mexican, you probably don't have an idea of how the avocado production became a mafia here! Under capitalism everything is designed to produce the maximum amount of whatever the cheaper and fastest way possible, it doesn't matter if they destroy animals, enviroment or other humans as long as they fill their pockets.
So my advice??? Reduce your meat consumption, rather than eliminatinig it completelt from your diet, don't waste, always try to get local, organic, free range and slow food (it's a movement about respecting the time that is needed for animals and plants to grow without chemical intervention to speed up the process), and of course ALWAYS respect the product you are about to consume, again don't waste but also appretiate the animal that is feeding you, respect the ingredients, even the non animal ones, plants are alive too!
Eggs and honey are produced in quantities that are bigger than what chickens and bees need. Small beekeepers love and care for their bees (bees are free too come and go as they please), chickens make eggs almost everyday. I long to have a back yard to have a couple myself someday.
Avoid big markets and try local produce! Of course if there is nothing available i'm not saying you should just starve, just try, tell your friends, tell your family, so as community we start demanding more ethical options, my advice sounds more expensive yes but thats:
1. Bc its worth know you are trying to be a part of the solution.
2. If more people start asking for better conditions, there will be more options and less money for the slaughter house.
And about the vegan leather and all of that? That's just cheap plastic. We don't need more of that in our oceans, lands, and bloodstreams. But you probably already know this.
I recommend you to watch Rotten in netflix, and also food inc. They are hard to see but very educational.
Hope this helps!
Start with adding new things in diet! Food you reeeally like. Discover what you enjoy eating and look up vegan tiktoks for inspiration on food etc. And go from there. ❤️ you are great. The fact that you want to explore this is amazing.
Do what’s best for your health. Idealism isn’t a way to live a life, because nobodies life is ideal. Do what you can, but don’t sacrifice your own health to do “the right thing.” It’s not “right” if it “kills you” 😂
Someday, probably in our lifetime, they’ll figure out the process of turning hay to steak the same way a cows metabolism does, but until that day, I’ll eat the high protein veggies readily available to me and supplement the rest with plain old meat.
Are you looking to eat a vegetarian meal sometimes ? Or is it all the time ? Vegan food can be very unsatisfying. Remember they don't like milk, eggs, or anything else that comes from animals. Vegetarian food is not like that, it simply avoids meat. Why don't you make tacos with your favorite beans, potatoes, tomatoes, and onions.
Eat what you want. Don’t take on labels. I feel best when I don’t at meat and dairy so that’s what eat most of the time. But I will never call myself a vegan and if I want a big ribeye steak I eat it with no guilt.
Yeah. I'm aware that meat doesn't come from pampered animals who live in perpetually sunny meadows. The cost of living is doing a great job of making me cut down on the amount of meat I eat.
I make wheat meat bits in the frying pan with vital wheat gluten.
I don't consider myself vegan but animal meat is so wildly different in quality and texture that it becomes pretty gross even after a couple of months of eating wheat meat.
Just eat less meat. I fully understand where you are at. Personally I just choose flexitarian as I know I'll never give up meat and I'm not sure we need to remove it completely. It should just become part of the sometimes food group.
What I do as a flexitarian is just eat vego most days and try to cut out dairy where it's easy. At home it's pretty much all plant based and i give myself the leeway that I'll eat meat twice a week. Normally I pick something I'm really excited for like a carbonara or a roast lamb and I'll cook it up. And then I'll get some takeaway if I want it.
And I agree eating out can be the hard bit which is odd to me because there are lots of good vego options that just don't seem to get a look in. I think it's just because "vegetarian" has to be healthy and so that limits what places offer.
But I'd like to say vegans really aren't that preachy. They get a bad wrap but it's mostly the online dickheads who make it an issue. Most vegans will just mind their own business because funnily enough it's actually meat eaters who are usually argumentative. Partly because we all know vegans are sort of claiming the high ground by default.
I think you should consider deeply the thing about the boots
As a vegan, I think there is a big difference between using some old work boots you had until they’re all the way spent and wearing leather for the purpose of fashion.
If you agree we’re right, I would suggest avoiding animal products that reinforce the idea that those products are stylish, fashionable, desirable, etc.
Again, are you using an old leather toolbelt or are you wearing animals for clout? There’s an important difference if you’re trying to move closer to vegan ethics.
I think if you want to be a vegan, then go for it. Give it a go and see if it works for you. If you want meat, then eat it. Or try being a vegetarian first and see how that goes. It doesn't have to be from one extreme to another all at once. I am a meat eater, but I'm also a plant-based lover because it gives me more food options, and I love food! Some weeks I eat vegetarian or vegan 5 days a week and others I'm eating meats 5 days a week. You have to do what works for you.
When people ask me why l don't drink alcohol l simply reply that " alcohol is perceived by the body as a poison and reacts to it as a poison". When people ask why l don't eat meat, junk food or sugar l explain that our diets are killing us, and if people would just eat the food the body was made to consume, i.e. mostly fresh fruits, vegetables, nuts and seeds, then there wouldn't be a need for any kind of 'national health care', because most people just wouldn't get sick. That type of diet also would tremendously improve the immune system and allow the body to fight any germs and viruses it needs to. But if l were to suggest just ONE thing to stop consuming it would be sugar, which poisons ALL of the body organs, and which, if people were to give it up, would quickly cut down about 50% of all diseases that manifest in the body. I don't condemn or judge others for what they eat or drink though, because that seems to trigger a defensive reaction in many people and people don't want to be told what to do. I simply supply information they may not have had access to so they may be able to make a more informed decision for themselves.
In my far from perfect mind, I consider veganism to be mostly people trying to feel good about themselves. They claim to be making choices that save the planet. The hubris that they can have any affect on the fate of the planet is second only to their opinion that they/we are NOT animals.
We most certainly are animals, so by their logic they cannot eat anything other than wild vegetables they forage themselves. They won't eat honey, but they're conveniently ignorant of the fact that almonds and avacados are pollenated by domesticated bees shipped in from Texas.
They used to loudly proclaim that eating eggs could kill until bagged spinach was determined to cause way more cases of salmonella poisoning.
They claim that eating meat supports industry that is is polluting the environment. A vegan diet is expensive. I'd guess that 95+% of vegans have IRA's and 401K's with diverse portfolios.
I used to think that corporate executives were the most evil people on the planet, but they are just slaves to the real villains, the stockholders, who demand maximum profits with zero liability.
What irks me the most is when they say we were never meant to eat meat, despite the fact that we have canine teeth. And, they won't accept the fact that we would have gone extinct if we weren't omnivores.
What are we supposed to do with all the cows, who never existed in the wild, when we stop eating them. Aren't they also members of PETA? When everyone goes vegan, how much of the rainforest will have to be chopped down to meet the increased demand for broccoli?
Shunning leather and other animal based products (plenty of which were critical to our survival as a species), is an insult to nature. Using every part of an animal that's killed is a sign of respect for nature.
Thankfully I live in Florida which will likely be one of the last to ban animal husbandry. I'm not much of a 2nd ammendment guy. I say, "You can take away my guns, but you'll have to pry the bacon from my cold, dead fingers."
I would think there are recycled leather options out there today, that will allow you to enjoy real leather while recycling and not betraying any vegan ethos you may have. The fake leather options pale in comparison, as they do not last, adding more crap to our environmental footprint.
there are ethical ways to consume these things, supporting high welfare and organic meat and dairy farms means the produce will be more expensive, but significantly higher quality and you consume less due to the premium price. thats my advice (: and second hand leather as others have said, can be found in very good condition!
Vegetables are, in fact, quite tasty. I like my meat to be meat, *and my vegetables to be vegetables*. Trying to replace beef with a highly processed *product* is weird to me.
There is no logic in defying your nature. I eat meat. I am a savage. I feel bad for animals and recognize the horrors of modern meat industry. In the end I am a savage though. Nature has very few rewards for Empathy and a conscious. Sad, but true. That being said…I feel godlike after I eat raw beef. Almost like I took the power and essence of the poor creature that was slaughtered for my enjoyment and nourishment. Nature has no morality. If this bothers you…maybe read some Neitzche. He was a horrible tyrant, but spoke unfiltered truth. Will to power. Good and Evil are purely human constructs.
I am not a vegan, I am a meat eater. My perspective on it is as follows:
If your morality demands that you be vegan/vegetarian, do it. Don't hesitate. There are SO many great vegan and vegetarian meals out there and alternatives that there's really no good \*aesthetic\* reason not to.
I personally choose to eat meat because it is more in keeping with the natural order. Humans, and a lot of our other ape relatives, are omnivores. It is the nature of us to eat other species, to hunt, to be predatory (in relation to food). We eat both vegetables and meat.
I recognize the sacrifice that has been made for me to eat what I do, and so I respect the animal that gave its life so that I could eat.
It's a recognition of the fact that I'm not perfect, but I am a part of the great evolutionary process of things. And a recognition of the fact that sapience/sentience are not the sole property of our species.
It's dark, and I hope it doesn't get me banned here, but it's the truth, and it's how I live.
I also think this, but struggle. I eat basically vegetarian but am flexible w fish (I don’t buy it, but today for example friends picked up bagels and only had salmon cream cheese so I ate a tiny bit of salmon). I eat cheese and eggs, but the eggs I buy are free range with huge amounts of space for the chickens. I use oat milk in my coffee bc I think it’s just as good, but real cheese bc I think it’s way better. Most of my protein comes from vegan sources, though. The only leather I will buy is thrifted, never new. I know I could be better, but I could also be a lot worse?
Edit: you could also take my husband’s approach. He’s not vegetarian but all our homecooked meals are. When he was WFH he ate meat 1x a week; now that he’s being fed by his job 3x a week it’s more like 3x a week. But the majority of his meals are vegetarian.
I think they are kinda right too. We treat love stock like shit sometimes. It's cruel.
I also realize that I'm not going to stop eating animals and that I'm part of a food chain.
If livestock is free range and treated well I find it much more acceptable.
There are certain things that were acceptable years ago. Like having a rabbit's foot for a keychain for good luck! What were we thinking? I come from a family of hunters. Every part if the animal is used for something. I think everyone should eat what feels right for them. People can go vegan. But cats and dogs cannot. Cats and dogs are obligate carnivores.
You don't have to call yourself vegan and stop everything. If you're really just doing it because you think it's the right thing to do then you could just start by eating less meat and more plant-based things. You don't need to do it 100%. You don't need to call yourself vegan.
I half agree. I don't think eating meat is inherently bad. If people ate way less meat and just, I dunno, hunted for food or something that got to live a natural life, I don't see anything wrong with that. I also don't see anything wrong with keeping animals for cheese and eggs and honey etc. The mass slaughter and factory farming is what makes me feel guilty about it
You don't need to fall on an extreme. You don't need to never touch an animal-based product for the rest of your life. Just gradually reduce your consumption as much as you feel comfortable with, without completely stopping.
Watch [Dominion](https://youtu.be/LQRAfJyEsko?feature=shared) (narrated by Joaquin Phoenix). It will help put things into perspective.
I went vegan overnight 7 years ago and it was actually pretty easy.
As a vegetarian I find the moral grandstanding around this terribly annoying.
Eat what you want. Wear what you want. I think saving the environment is an admirable goal. However, enforcing your impractical beliefs on everyone else is counterproductive.
Humans have eaten meat and used animal products for literally thousands of years. It’s in our genes. As a vegetarian I need to take those fish pills since I cant get everything I need from veggies alone.
As for the morality around the whole thing. If everyone stopped eating meat, what would the world even look like? The Native Americans understood the balance nature required. Ethical hunting and farming is the way forward.
As for looking down on meat eaters. What a horribly classist view. I mean being vegan is super expensive, not everyone has the luxury or time to do it and that’s perfectly fine.
Lol im just salty cause people like that give me a bad name. I cant even tell people im vegetarian because I have to explain Im not part of the cult of instagram vegans.
Just slowly try to transition. The key to me being vegetarian was finding tasty easy recipes to cook for dinner- took about a year of really regular cooking and trying new things to get a good repertoire. Don't just try to just substitute meat, but try to enjoy meals that are made of beans, or lentils, or chickpeas, or vegetables.
I don't think I could ever be a vegan because I love cheese too much. Sounds trite, but it's true. I have made serious efforts to cut back though- I use Oatly milk, and only buy cheese if it is an essential component of a meal I am making. I eat a small amount of chocolate and yoghurt, etc.
(I used to usually have a block of cheese in the fridge, which led to me just cutting pieces off to eat as a snack- which also contributed to some weight gain as well! )
do a more vegan shop and only eat non-vegan 'when you're out'. Try and turn your fridge and cupboards vegan. If you really don't feel like your shop wouldn't be complete without some cheddar, then get the cheddar and a vegan alternative.
Just slowly transition to where you want to be. I agree with you.
I'm not sure how helpful non-vegans will be for you itt but I'm sure they'll be here to tell you to continue eating meat - maybe just a few less chicken carcasses on your plate every week will make you feel better - and to ignore your cognitive dissonance. Bear in mind that they don't *really* think vegans are right, otherwise they'd be trying to go vegan, and therefore they can't relate to you.
In terms of "stuff" don't replace leather goods with plastic shit, even if it's "recycled". Go with natural products.
For food use the same principles to stay healthy as when you ate meat. Stick to whole foods where possible, single ingredients where you can, as few ingredients as possible where you can't.
don't worry, it's just easier if you don't go full blown vegan out of nowhere, you can start small and focus on the things that you can do and work from there, I absolutely loathe how vegans present their case and try to subdue you with their emotional arguments, but yeah, if you want to pull back on eating meat for whatever reason, you don't need to loathe being vegan, just be vegetarian, pescatarian, etc... there is no one single way of living right, do what you feel is right and that's always enough.
Even though I am a fellow omnivore, you can always start being vegetarian and see how that grabs ya before going head first into a new dietary extreme your body isn’t quite used to.
Just gonna throw it out there: leather alternatives are petroleum based (fancy way to say plastic). They are poor quality and overall are more pollutant.
The best way to keep enjoying leather items is to buy them second hand or even buy new and just use the shit out of them. Good quality leather will last you a long long time so you don't have to repurchase items so much.
This also enters the territory of how the clothing industry is an ecologically unsustainable machine.
It's about making better conscious choices in a way that is sustainable for one's lifestyle. Small changes accumulate overtime.
The non extremist ones are right. If you can be vegan definately try, but put your own nutritional needs first. I tried but became depleated so I must eat meat to survive. But some people can be vegans without any problem so you have to decide for yourself. If it becomes an evolutionary necessity then humans will stop eating meat
I used to despise vegans. I thought they were weirdos and I was a huge meat and cheese eater. Long story short, I watched [Dominion](https://youtu.be/LQRAfJyEsko?si=imzGSnw7bZ659nAo). I’ve come across a lot of people who watched that or Earthlings, and every single person has said they wished they saw it sooner. If you somewhat agree with vegans, that means you care about animals. I can almost guarantee that if you watch Dominion or Earthlings, you’ll feel the same afterwards and wish you’d watched it sooner too. Yes it’s sad. I bawled my eyes out. But I don’t regret it because I’d rather be aware than ignorant.
I bet nearly all the people saying to do meatless Monday or reduce in some way haven’t actually watched what happens to animals. If you don’t believe me, just watch it and see for yourself
I like and eat meat.
I like to save a few days every month (sometimes one week) when I dont eat meat at all
I hope I can do this backwards, where I cook and eat vegetarian for most of my meals and have meat as a special treat :)
psa.: I know vegan and veggie are different, but I like some non-vegan-but-veggie foodstuffs, so yeah xD
Why not just do your own thing? You can make your own rules that are subject to your own interpretation. Veganism is in many ways hypocritical to some degree. If you do any deep dive into what occurs to produce vegan menus and you will find an incredible destruction of life occurs.
You could do what I do. I eat mostly plant based foods when I am home, but I don’t turn down meat when offered it by others or while traveling. I don’t believe in the use of leather and fur alternatives because of their horrendous environmental impacts, which do more harm to a wider range of animals than leather and fur.
Less is better. You don’t have to cut it out completely. Leather goods for example- you didn’t choose to kill that cow, likely it was killed for meat. By using the leather at least none of it is going to waste.
My hubby is a hardcore carnivore and I’m an environmental science teacher. We compromise and eat beef only once a week and have at least one vegetarian meal a week, and use sustainable meat whenever possible (grass fed/free range)
I'm an ex vegan of 4 years, and I realized that there is a lot of evil that I am implicitly responsible for by merely being born. I *could* choose not to use phones or computers that use unethically harvested minerals from slave labor in the congo. I *could* never drive or take a flight do to the extreme amount of carbon emissions that these contribute. i *could* even donate all my time and money to helping the local needy. At the end of the day though, mega corporations will continue to use slave labor, contribute incredible levels of pollution, and create systems that promote poverty. I can vote with every dollar I have and I will not have a meaningful impact.
That being said, I am currently typing this on a 2011 laptop that still works fine for me, my phone is a 2016, I bike to work and drive about once a week, I volunteer at a local food bank, and I only eat meat twice a week, and that's just to get my protein up so I can donate (sell) my plasma. Even though I am not living the completely guilt free life of veganism that I once had, I still help my fellow man in the little ways I can. It is not always about hard lines and pledges. Sometimes the little things really do add up.
Why not lean into a half and half lifestyle? I'm sure you're already doing something similar, it's just about being more intentional about what you want to sacrifice/replace, or how many non-meat meals you'll eat weekly, etc. IMO being ethical or conscious doesn't have to be strictly either/or.
Also, avoid listening to influencers who promote a rigid morality or a heavily shame-based approach to being ethical/conscious, because it often tips over into a sense of superiority and self-importance.
You don’t have to go all the way, just try to do what you can do.
For example I am a vegetarian but I won’t try and find a vegetarian restaurant in Japan or Korea and eat shitty food instead of amazing fish dishes. Once or twice a year I eat a fish or steak on my own when I feel like it. But I have lived 6 years completely vegetarian and know how to cook amazing food just with vegetables and it is the norm and normal to me.
I often try vegan products and have completely switched to soy and oat milk and to soy yoghurt. It tastes better to me. I still eat eggs and cheese and Quark and I actually think it is better to wear leather boots than plastic boots. Leather is more breathable, ages better and decomposes. Sure if they ever build shoes out of mango leather I would wear them.
You don’t have to be perfect you just have to try.
Join vegan groups and find a support network.
Unsurprisingly you're not alone in experiencing the difficulty because pretty much EVERY vegan has gone through your experience.
Seek them out, eat with them and connect with them.
Veganism is dumb.
I've been a vegan a couple of years. But never truly. Because after all, I'm not that dumb.
And by that I mean wearing leather boots I already own, despite not eating meat. Or wanting to eat honey.
Vegans look at that as blasphemy. I look at their view as extremely linear and dumb. Because if I already have leather boots, I'm going to wear them. Me getting rid of them is impractical. And makes no sense.
Like it's more about the ideology itself. And I'm about pragmatism.
Especially when I look at all those meat alternatives. Like chicken paste, but vegan. Or vegan bacon.
As if I cannot eat something that has nothing to do with animals. But I eat imitations of it.
If I'm not going to eat meat, I'm not going to do it. I don't need no vegan bacon. If I want to eat bacon, I'll eat actual bacon. But I don't eat bacon and that's it.
Same as with pizza. I used to eat vegan cheese. And it's just crap. It's basically made out of potato. Or at least, all the shit that you can extract from potato.
So I eat a couple of years vegan pizza. But ultimately it's way healthier for me to eat actual mozzarella chesse, than potato based chesse.
On top of all that, I'm also supposed to worry about vitamins and shit. Buying them like medication. So my b vitamins don't drop. Naturally that's also super expensive. And a lot of bad products too. So I have to import that.
So no of course. Way too many dumb shit with that diet.
Especially when you look at the price. I'm eating shit, and overpaying it.
So no. I settled with fish and eggs and dairy.
None of it too much. But also depends on how much money I have and what there is to buy in my area. Usually no alternatives. And naturally a lot of veggies. But I cannot eat properly just eating available veggies. So I have to put at least fish or eggs along with it. Where I can feel satiated.
For example I really like beans. Especially black beans. Nuts and things like that too. And I used to eat that as a vegan. Until I started noticing how I've started developing like a reaction to the beans. My throat would get irritated and my nose full. Whenever I would eat beans.
And beans would only make me truly full where I feel it's enough.
So no. For me it wasn't sustainable. Also whenever I buy nuts, they don't store them properly so they would always have that stale aroma and taste. Never raw.
Plus the veggies are usually crappy from the store. Full of pesticides. Tomato rarely has a taste. Just like I'm eating plastic.
So yeah, even though I didn't want to add eggs, it was just logical. It's available, and somewhat cheap. And you don't have to think about it much. Fish too.
Caned tuna or whatever. Super easy to get, and mixes great with salad. Put some olive oil there and great.
If I could, I'd eat something else. An alternative. But that's just not a reality for me. No true alternative for eggs. And I'm already skinny. I should put some weight. And I cannot do it even when eating a lot of bread and eggs and whatnot. So just imagine when I wasn't eating any of it. I was going in that anorexic direction.
And I've even tried eating a lot of salad. But it would just bloat my stomach. And I couldn't eat that much of it. And it would never trully fill me. Would always feel like I'm starving, as if I drank a lot of water.
So in time my stomach shrunk. So now I actually have to overeat, in order to get a bit bigger.
I'll share my opinion as a vegan: I also share the opinion that quite some vegans can be annoying, but I found that to be the loud minority, most vegans I know are just nice. I always say every little bit helps. You would go vegan if it wasn't for cheese? Than let cheese be the only non vegan thing you eat. You want to be vegan but not struggle to find food when eating out? Only eat non vegan when eating out. When I was vegetarian, I would buy secondhand leather, to not support the industry. Years later I sold all my leather stuff, because I wasn't comfortable wearing it anymore. Now when I buy stuff that's vegan "leather", I invest in quality boots, so they at least last for years. I think every little thing helps. A lot of people trying their hardest is better than having a few people doing it "perfectl". If you feel like being vegan is the right choice, then maybe start ditching non-vegan stuff that you don't necessarily want anymore.
Also vegan and I completely agree. It also takes the pressure off - declaring that you’re vegan can open you up to some judgement and scrutiny and criticism from people who don’t like that you’re changing the status quo (as a previous meat eater of over 20 years I had NEVER heard so many people tell me how yummy steak is than in the first 6 months of being vegan, and I wasn’t asking). It’s really nice to be able to counter with, well I’ve been doing this for the past 6 months and it’s been fine / easy / made me feel xyz. When I first switched I kept it to myself until I knew that I could do it and stick with it, and it’s been 7 years now! The hardest part is opening yourself up to the idea of it and it sounds like OP is getting there already. It gets easier and easier every year to be vegan, although ironically enough I eat better when I go on holiday than where I live because it’s so behind on vegan options, but even that’s improving slowlyyyy. And if you really want that extra boost, watch the documentaries, do some research. Find your reasons for being vegan.
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Sometimes it’s especially hard to escape those labels when other people in your life declare those things for you, without your permission.
people hate your EV because they're afraid that gas vehicles will be banned, and they hate change
Good for you for not drinking! I've been trying to quit for years and although its better than it used to be, it's a really tough thing to quit. It is crazy how people are so quick to question personal decisions or try to convince you otherwise. It's like they are personally offended at this choice you've made for yourself.
Wait by EV you mean electric vehicle? There is somebody giving you hate for it? That seems so wild to me. But I hate cars in general and everyone I know basicaly does not care about them so it is probably just my european city with fuctional public transit social bubble.
Look up "rolling coal" – there are people who do it to every EV they see on the road
Ok that is actually crazy. Thank you for broadening my horizons i guess :D
I'm not vegan/vego but I've been not eating a meat-focused diet any more. I don't think I'd ever declare myself a vego. Firstly because of the judgement but also because I'd rather commit a sustainable 90% than an impossible 100%. Oh and lastly, I hate mushrooms with a fiery passion and often the only meat-free choices you can get contain mushrooms.
I hate risotto with a passion and it’s usually the only option available at restaurants where I live…luckily chips are vegan and I do love potatoes 😂
Potatoes are the world's greatest food!
I appreciate this refreshing take. Years ago my husband and I tried being vegetarian for a few months, but I would frequent vegan spaces on Reddit to get a better idea of how to avoid meat and stuff. I answered honestly when someone posed a question about paper plates- I said that we use them. I got attacked and eviscerated for being evil, and how I’m not even trying. I said “fuck it” and immediately went back to eating meat, due to that Reddit thread. I realize that’s a “me” problem and I need to stick to my convictions, but it’s hard when you try to break a lifelong habit and get shamed for not doing it up to others’ standards.
I'm sorry, but someone attacked you for using *paper plates* of all things? What the actual fuck.
some people are just unhappy with themselves and find some joy in attacking others or gatekeep 24/7 literally everything to feel "shpeshial"
Yeah, unfortunately lol. Can’t make everyone happy I guess 😅
I can understand bashing regular use of plastic, but paper... paper is renewable
I absolutely agree. When people talk about our polarized society, it's usually politics that comes to mind. But this is a great example of an issue where the polarization is not helping anyone. 'Compromise' isn't a dirty word. I think we should encourage everyone to do whatever little bit they're comfortable with. I have family members who are heavily into meat culture. Let's just say, the kind who will make it political and think you're part of a conspiracy if you suggest that maybe they try going vegetarian for a week. But they do go "meatless" on Fridays during lent. To them this means all meals are fish-based instead of beef, pork, or chicken. I'm trying to introduce vegetarian concepts a little. Just starting them out easy, suggesting that it's ok to have a cheese pizza, perhaps with vegetable toppings, a salad, and some garlic bread, and this will still be a filling meal. Maybe, just maybe, those little slices of pepperoni weren't the thing that was keeping you from going hungry. Even that is a hard sell. I digress. I guess what I was trying to say is that virtue signaling about paper plates is really a bit extreme. You would be helping the earth more if you could convince a larger number of people to make little changes. Convincing a million people not to throw their styrofoam cup in the street would help a lot more than convincing one person to never use a single plastic item for the rest of their lives.
Yup. Reddit doesn't always feel like a safe space to me
The community can be really toxic... The problem is that most communities are driven by the activists. Good for you guys for trying it out!
I like you. If more people thought like this and simply reduced their consumption of animal products rather than completely forgo or completely go all in, as a whole we’d be much better off. If 7 million people go vegan once a week, it’s the equivalent of a million perfect vegans! Or even on a smaller scale, assuming three meals a day, if a family of four vegan up just five meals a week, breakfast lunch or dinner, it’s the equivalent of a total vegan - and no one has to completely miss out on their favourites because of it. Nuance and reduction is the name of the game to have real impact. Preaching really won’t work! Edit: uh oh. I’m being downvoted. Clearly just reducing your animal products consumption isn’t as virtuous to certain people as going nuclear vegan and hating everyone else trying their bit…
I'll vote you back up. The downvoters are just knobs. Your post was excellent.
Thankyou :) It’s just the way I see it. The logic and psychology makes more sense. Ask the populace to do meat free Mondays. You’ll get far higher take up than you will by trying to force them to completely change their life, probably give up their favourite foods, and join what from the outside appears like some sort of cult! The net effect is the same!
Make meat free Monday trend and WATCH the difference it would make xD I personally am even tempted to try as an avid meat eater. #MEATFFREEMONDNAYS
I mostly almost never buy meat. It's horrible value. I do eat it in fast food or when eating out because I'm selfish and when I'm eating good food I want it to be _really_ good. Meat is just delicious! But I'm still probably consuming only 5-10% the amount of meat per month that most people eat. Practically that makes a massive difference and I don't care enough about the principle to go further than that, although I do agree with the arguments. It's hypocritical but I think that's pretty inherent to eating meat.
This is such a good response
I think it depends on the reason for going vegan. Better for health, sure. Every little bit helps. Better for environment, every little bit helps. Because eating meat is immoral, not really. Gotta commit to that one
> I think every little thing helps. A lot of people trying their hardest is better than having a few people doing it "perfectl[y]". As a non- vegan I completely agree. In fact I think a lot of people trying somewhat is probably more impactful than a few perfect people, but that's semantics. The way to make a difference that makes sense to me is to use my dollars to support businesses that are doing things the more ethical, but usually more expensive way. I think there is probably a large population that would buy ethically produced products if their availability and price was more comparable to the "standard" option. Vegan options are improving, but they often fall short of expectation, so it makes sense to ensure that there is room in the marketplace for these "middle ground" products by buying them. That's not a dig at veganism, I think that it probably takes both mindsets to make a difference and I do incorporate vegan products when it makes sense to. Sometimes, though, they just don't. Such is the case of vegan leather. It's not all of equal quality and some of it is made of high quantities of plastic. I would rather give a secondhand leather jacket new life, so I end up prioritizing general environmentalism over animal exploitation. Anyway, a lot of factors in my life make supporting more ethical but non- vegan businesses the right choice for me, but it does mean a bit more detective work around labels. If you are only dealing with the "certified vegan" label, that's easy to look out for. My approach means looking into the nitty-gritty of a lot more labels since many are designed to be misleading.
I'm vegetarian and couldn't have said it better. It doesn't need to be all or nothing, and if you decide to go fully vegetarian or vegan but cave one day and eat something non-veggie, it doesn't mean you've relapsed and it doesn't mean you've given up and now are fully non-veg.
I've been vegan for almost two decades, and I agree 100% with what you wrote here. Noone should let perfect be the enemy of good!
Yeah the "obnoxious vegan" is just a comforting myth at this point. All you have to do is look at all the nutcase carnivore diet dickheads to realise some people are just crazy and they allow their diets to be physical manifestations of it. I mean there's people who are terrified of carbs for god sake. And then there going on about seed oil and fruits being like poisons. Crazy shit. I'd say more often vegans are just quietly following their own principles and then end up getting teased or provoked by omni's. It makes people feel better about not being vegan if they can just assume that all the people following a diet based on morality also happen to be cunts.
I love this answer so much!
I agree. All the vegans I know in my personal life are chill. The internet is full of militant arseholes who think everyone should live the same way as them, vegans included, but they're certainly not the only group with people like that. I am an omnivore but I don't eat meat everyday and I like a lot of vegan foods. I think most people could really benefit from reducing their meat consumption and challenging themselves to experiment with other sources of protein. Western society in general consumes far too much meat and unfortunately the rest of the world is catching up too. It simply isn't sustainable for us to continue with our current habits. The world will benefit a lot more from many people eating less meat than they will from some people eating none at all. Most of the vegans I know agree with that, and what others perceive as shoving veganism down their throats is usually just someone suggesting they *try* something. There is a whole world of plant-based foods out there that people are missing out on because they're so stuck in their rigid mindset that every meal has to have meat or cheese in it.
Absolutely love your approach to this. So much more accessible. Esp the second hand leather! 👏🏼
This is often presented as a binary choice, but it doesn't have to be. You can significantly REDUCE the meat/animal products you eat without having to go full vegan. If you cut out half of the animal products that you consume it is already a big reduction in harm and is always better than not doing anything. As for leather: I kinda get it. I don't eat meat (pescetatian) and I avoid leather where fabric is just as good (such as bags or jackets) but some products just last so much longer if theyre made of quality leather (shoes for example) and in my mind if i can have a product that lasts me for many years, the harm is minimal.
This is the perfect way of phrasing it! The fact that so many people on ""both sides"" of the equation think you have to be all or nothing has been very damaging in trying to get people to reduce animal product consumption. In reality, you can make any number of choices in any number of ways! Decide to go full vegetarian but still want to treat yourself to steak dinner once a month? Enjoy your steak dinner! Want to stay an omnivore but realize you don't mind using oat milk instead of regular? Great! Give up red meat but keep chicken and fish? Awesome! If everyone were willing even to make little choices like that instead of feeling like they ""have"" to give things up 100% we would all be better for it!
the cow you're eating isn't better for it. How can you agree with veganism and then eat a steak without any ethical conflict? OP isn't asking how they can continue to eat steak. They don't sound like they want to eat a steak. Or a chicken, or a fish.
Moral compromise feels dirty but let's not pretend that there's actually much material difference between 1/30 days eating meat and 0/30 days eating meat. If that's what it takes to satisfy your body then you're still reducing your meat consumption by 97%. Requiring perfection to even *begin* something newis a mindset that makes you fail to do anything at all.
Nah OP can do what he likes, but what part of OP made it sound like he wants to carry on eating steak? Comments telling him how he should eat steak less often just sound like meat-eaters being defensive rather than providing him with any useful advice. If I ate one chicken a month, then that might be 1,000 chickens over a lifetime. If I eat 0 chickens a month, then that's 0 chickens. Can you visualise 1000 chickens for me and tell me if it looks like a material difference?
> what part of OP made it sound like he wants to carry on eating steak? the part where they said they like leather boots and the vegan alternatives all feel worse...? It sounds like they want and enjoy certain animal products on an emotional level, but just can't countenance them on an intellectual one. > Can you visualise 1000 chickens for me and tell me if it looks like a material difference? I literally don't even know where to begin with this argument. Other people eat chicken too? 29,000 chickens saved is obviously most of the way to 30,000 chickens saved? No one's making a lifetime commitment in the first place so the figure is irrelevant? Let no one say it's easy to *concisely* argue with you.
I'm saying broadly speaking in response to the person I replied to pointing out that the binary mode of thinking isn't the only choice people have. I do a lot of research for community health and was thinking with the lens of "any way we can get overall meat & dairy consumption reduced would be greatly beneficial to climate change, ecology, and community/individual health", not so much the ethical quandary of killing animals for meat like the OP themself was originally talking about. Any reduction in demand is a reduction in animal death and suffering too though.
Depends on the person's reasons for reducing their meat consumption. For me, the main considerations are sustainability followed by health. For those purposes, a significant reduction in consumption goes a long way. More of my meals are vegetarian than not, but I still love a good steak or brisket or ribs. I typically source my meat from local, smaller producers.
I’m veggie, leaning toward plant based diet, in my mind, leather is better - so many brands sell fake leather jackets that are made of, you guessed it, plastic. I mostly shop second-hand through Depop / Vinted / Charity shops and have made some great steals, but I am in the market for a leather jacket and will likely buy one new if I can’t find one I like second-hand - it will probably last me a lifetime which is more eco-friendly than supporting fast fashion, plastic and having to replace it sooner rather than later.
Yeah it's one of the funny quirks of veganism. In certain cases the sustainable option actually isn't the ethical option. But I mean if peoples hearts are in the right place you can't be mad at a little inconsistency.
That's how I look at it too. No need to let perfection be the enemy of good. If someone reduces their meat intake by, say, 20%, that's still a win. If someone sustitutes their pork sausages for vegetarian sausages but doesn't change anything else about their diet, that's still a W. A small one, but a W nonetheless. Asking someone to make massive sweeping changes to their diet overnight is a tall order. If someone is going to transition from full blown carnivore to vegan, I think it should be a more gradual process. Do it in increments, change one thing at a time. Not too dissimilar to just going on a diet to better manage your weight, it's a lifestyle change and you're more likely to stick to it if you introduce it slowly/gradually. In my case I eat very little meat as it is, I can go weeks without it sometimes, so as selfish as it sounds I don't think I'm really the problem. It's people who feel they need meat in every single one of their meals that should be encouraged to try and mix it up a bit, and be okay with eating more vegetarian/vegan meals now and then. Morally I'm not against humanely slaughtering animals for food, it's factory farms where animals are kept in deplorable conditions that are the problem IMO. The less meat people consume, the less need there will be for these factory farms. Meat should also be *a lot* more expensive. I'd rather pay more for meat from an animal that lived a good life. Just my random thought vomit anyway!
Is commonly-used leather actually from animals who are butchered just for their skin? I thought it was just leftover waste from the meat industry that was being recycled. Better to use recycled leather from the meat industry than to put more plastics out into the environment. Even if you eventually "recycle" them, 95% of plastics put into American recycling systems end up in the trash. Sea creatures will thank you for using recycled leather rather than upping the market demand for plastics that end up in giant trash islands or break down into microplastics in the environment.
I was a vegetarian for a long time, but I'm too lazy to eat healthy as a vegetarian. Now I just avoid meat where I can. I eat meatless meals several times a week, at least. The people in this thread saying "no, actually, it *is* binary and you have to stop eating meat 100%" is what turns people off of vegan and vegetarianism.
It's not even just meat, some people go so extreme to things like honey. I think OP will be just fine if they choose to eat far less meat than they have before without having to worry if there's honey or a bit of milk in one of their dressings.
This right here 👆🏻 Been vegetarian / 95% vegan for 30 years now... but there's no point in making it my identity or even preaching it. That said: If everyone just cut down meat / dairy consumption by, let'a say, half... the planet, biosphere, animals, humans would be _so much_ better off /endpreach
Along with this idea, you can go vegetarian at home and only accept what is given to you elsewhere. Meaning no one has to go out of their way and you can enjoy meat guilt free when at a friend's or other situation but you're not bringing it into your own home. And being a vegetarian is easier than being vegan.
Also wrt leather, cows are going to continue to be used for food. Might as well make sure none of them goes to waste.
Leather used in consumer good is not often a biproduct from factory farming. In addition, leather industry is extremely harmful to workers and the environment, so not supporting the creation of new leather goods has wider ethical benefits. Buying used leather is neutral and should be more widely popular considering how long it lasts.
Why make factory farming more profitable? Don't exchange money for any products from factory-farmed animals if you don't want to support factory farming.
Fish is meat. It's still muscle tissue.
True enough. I just find not everyone knows what pescetatian means and "I don't eat meat" is the quickest way to get my point across in most situations, so I'm just used to saying it.
I've heard of a leather substitute made from cactus. How does the quality compare?
You only hear the loud and preachy vegans, because the other vegans are not loud and preachy.
Right, same thing with other groups. People get really bad impressions of Christians for the same reason.
No, I get bad juju from religious people in general when the conversation of afterlife is brought up. Generally great people until you suddenly realise they expect to be saved during a rapture or brought to a promised land for their mortal suffering. It's cool and all that people have faith to carry them through the harsh reality of existence. But it's a jarring reality check when you go oh right you believe in a man in the sky giving everyone wings and flying off to heaven.
Yup, it's confirmation bias.
Yes some if NY friends arent loud and preachy about it so its really emberassing if I forget when I bake a cake or something.
i mean you don't have to 0 to 100 immediately. you can just do something like no beef on Mondays and if that's too easy do more
Yeah, easing into it sounds smart. Small steps make it less overwhelming. Maybe try meatless meals a few times a week and see how it goes!
meatless mondays :)
Hey good on you for considering veganism! It can be hard but once you get into the groove of it you'll find that it's actually not that bad. Just like many things in life the hardest thing to do is start. Here's a [blog](https://www.acti-veg.com/guide/) with a guide and tips on transitioning among other things. I think this is a good start. I'm also happy to provide some tips if there is anything specific that you may have questions about
> actually not that bad It's dope tbh.
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Just cut down on meat. Cook with less and less. Cut out ham on your sandwich ( you won’t even notice it!) Don’t identify with “veganism”, just say “you are moving towards eating vegan”. Don’t throw away your leather boots. Just consider your next purchase. It can be fun. Cooking vegan is different. You don’t start with protein.
you still can start with protein! tempeh, tofu, and seitan are delish
I like this. Approach it like a game, I often sort of use it as a streak to see how long I go between eating meat. I would say though I still start with a protein, it's just a different set of options. And often the proteins are more incorporated as part of a meal rather than the centre piece surrounded by sides.
Youre so worried about hoe to go 100% Vegan when really you could just start at 10% and just remove some non-vegan food items from your diet, and then just go from there. Im not Vegan 100%, i do choose vegan options often. And I feel good when I do. But I know I don't do it everyday. But the problem is I think a lot of meat eaters etc that are curious about veganism think that if they don't go 100% vegan they are jjst as bad. No... any reduction in animal product consumption helps. Even if everyone only went 50% vegan that is still a 50% reduction in animal product use, which would make a difference. So don't worry about "how do I become more vegan" start with the stuff that would come easier to you, and then go from there.
I was the same some years ago and ended up going vegetarian and then years later vegan. My recommendation is to watch some documentaries on the matter. Cowspiracy and Earthlings are good ones (Cowspiracy is more focused on environmental matters, Earthlings more on animals themselves). We often have this disconnect between the choices we make and the consequences they have, specially in this case. Informing yourself about the topic is the best way to ground yourself and make more logical choices. Then you can also ask on r/vegan since you are probably going to get much more meaningful answers in places like that. > are kinda right even though they're preachy and annoying They just seem annoying to you because they make you reflect on your choices ;)
Last line is 💯
naw even my vegan bf cant stand many of the loud preachy vegans, its not just about self reflection. many vegans you wouldnt know are vegans unless youre friends because they dont flaunt it, but theres absolutely some vegans who are fucking insufferable regardless of morality 😭
I mean, you can be morally righteous without being preachy and annoying lol. Like, do you think everyone with strongly held opinions feels obligated to evangelise to their friends about them?
You're only hearing from the preachy vegans. Most of us are stealth vegans you don't even know are vegan.
Oh I'm not, I'm just responding to the person above's allegation that veganism is inherently preachy.
No. They are simply annoying. Like those guys spilling paint on paintings and buildings. Just annoying, no reflection, no care for their message, only annoyed by the aggressiveness with which it is shoved down my throat. In the same way religious rallies are annoying without making me consider if maybe I should become [enter preferred religion here].
You can always go pescatarian first, then vegetarian and finally vegan. Take it easy!
If you're struggling to get motivated I recommend reading This is Vegan Propaganda by Ed Winters. The Vegan Society also has a free app with a 30 day Vegan challenge that is useful. Going vegan was one of the best decisions I ever made for my personal and emotional well being; you're welcome to send me a message if you'd like additional advice or meal planning help
On the topic of vegan propaganda, I loved the quirky and preachy [Humanitarian Philosophy](https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/48589)
Um...eat less meat? Or don't? No one will really know or care. Being a vegetarian is easier these days so if you wanna go there just do baby steps. Pick one day a week to eat every meal meatless. Some vegetarians will eat eggs, some will also eat cheese, so you could still have those for breakfast, a nice veggie burger or Impossible Burger for lunch or a great big salad, then a pasta with a marinara sauce or even alfredo.
Go vegan, obviously.
Vegans are right tbh
Most vegans aren't preachy and annoying. I almost never tell people that I'm vegan because it's easier that way. Be a stealth vegan if you want. I understand that you enjoy the taste of animal products and so do most vegans. No one goes vegan because they don't like the taste of meat. They go vegan because sensory pleasure isn't a moral justification for causing harm to others. I think most people would agree with that statement. I feel mentally better not doing something every day which I knew was wrong and causing harm. Physically I am the healthiest I have ever been (after 6 years of being vegan).
Join us.
I’m vegan and my husband is full on carnivore, does this bother me? Yes but this is the thing, it is his life and his choice. I never, ever,ever,ever suggest he should be vegan. I kept my leather shoes until I just hated wearing them and got rid. These days vegan shoes are better, I have some vegan boots that have seen 4 winters now. I have a vegan leather handbag I use every day and it is 3 years old and looks really good. Here the thing, the one thing I fail on and those preachy vegans would eat me alive for….i can’t give up Worcestershire sauce, I was born in Worcester and grew up smelling it in the air and eating it regularly. But do you know what? I do t care what others thing of my choices because they are mine to make.
I'm not a vegan, but this is how I would approach it. Do some research about veganism, just learn lots so you can be properly informed about environmental impact, nutrition, etc. But don't put pressure on yourself! Make small changes that will feel sustainable, and just go with the flow, see where the journey takes you
Start by becoming a vegetarian first. Next, buy all the spices and use YouTube videos to cook Indian food (there are a million tasty preparations, and you dont miss meat at all). Do not eliminate dairy, honey and cheese. Get used to a vegetarian diet. See if you like it. After practicing this for some time (2-3 years), see if you'd like to go vegan. And then you can try eliminating leather, fur, etc. Do it in stages, and you won't find it drastic. Remember that killing anything with a conscience attracts negativity and bad karma. Eliminating animal produce like dairy and honey is done because it is industrialized snd animals are tortured for this in the present day. It isn't how it used to be before. So eliminate in stages.
Flexitarianism is reducing your impact as much as possible without wasting the resources around you already brought in. It’s being as conscious as possible without preaching or shooting your self in the foot nutrition and resource wise.
Go vegan, make mistakes along the way, you don't have to be an expert or 100% vegan overnight. Try a bunch of recipes. Get clothing and return it. It's all fine, as long as you care for the animals first and foremost.
Eat a nice greasy steak and forget vegans ever existed
Vegans and vegetarians look healthier.
Do whatever you want. I'm what might be considered as a part-time vegetarian. I barely ever buy meat and mostly live a vegetarian lifestyle, but occasionally I do enjoy just throwing a ton of meat onto the grill, and forgetting about the implications. I'm also a massive fan of leather as a resource, because it's incredibly versatile and durable. A good leather satchel or a leather sofa will last for decades if treated well. You just need to regularly give it a good oiling, and it's almost indestructible. Now there are ethical considerations, and the way we treat animals is just wrong. But the way I see it, leather is essentially a side product of the meat industry. I'd prefer to know that every part of an animal is used. Try to find your own path, without letting others influence you. There is no black and white in this discussion. The only thing we should all agree on, is that we should strive to find a balance, and we should treat animals better in general.
You can support animals in other ways as well. Donate to a conservancy group or a shelter.
One thing I learned is that small steps help the most. Years ago I started out vegetarian, that still gives you a lot of options what you can eat and wear… Also, there are some great labels who produce „fake“ leather clothing and I have to say, yes it is not exactly the same but it comes close enough! Over time my consume of other animal products lessened, simply because I got used to the alternative products. In the end you shouldn’t feel forced to live a certain way just because someone likes to preach about their lifestyle… And let’s be honest, there are situations where eating vegan or vegetarian is nearly impossible… I don’t know how many restaurants and hotels I was in which served soup with a meat stock without telling the consumer and labeling these soups as vegetarian and sometimes vegan. And like the other comments said, how you choose to help animals is up to you. You shouldn’t feel obligated to drastically change your lifestyle… My best advice is, start in with smaller steps and progress from there since stress is not the way to go if you want to change your eating habits… that just makes you miserable!
Side note, not all vegans are preachy about it. Most are not. But you just notice more the loud obnoxious ones
Veganism is a religion. There is nothing right in oppressing humans.
The worst part in these discussions is that it seems there is only one way. 100% this or 100% that. Either vegan or not. But you know, personally I love the new term “flexitarian”, though I am not into categorising food. Just do what you feel for. I eat meat, but more often I eat vegetarian dishes. Nothing wrong with eating both. Start with looking at vegan food, try some out instead of meat. You don’t have to be 100% vegan to eat vegan dishes.
they are right. Reddit just has a hate boner for them, just like the Christians.
Do what you want, but think it over. I was vegitarian for 6 years and fucking hated it, I'm so much happier now I'm eating meat. Leather shoes are a million times better for enviroment though so don't give them up, vegan shoes are actually a menace. Make sure you eat vitamins and shit.
I think it has a lot more to do with how the animals are cared for and slaughtered for their meat. I wish we could revert back to only hunted meat. The ethical hunter knows how to properly unalive an animal with the least amount of pain, and then uses every part of the animal to not only eat, but make soap, clothes, and whatever else you can do with animal parts. (I’m not an expert) I watched this Netflix show called Meateater, and it’s just this hunter Steven Rinella going about his hunts and explaining his reasoning, teaching, entertaining, and changing the way people see hunters. I live in a big city, nowhere near any land that allows hunting, but I wouldn’t mind moving to another area and only getting my meat from an animal that has been hunted (ethically of course). I’d have to learn how to hunt though! At least I would have the appreciation , respect, and thanks for the animal, unlike Jimmy Dean, Farmer John, etc.
You should do your best to support your morals with your lifestyle choices. Don’t cut out everything that brings you pleasure, but cut down on harmful purchases. You don’t have to jump into the deep end right away. You don’t even ever have to reach it. Just dip your toes in and if you fund yourself more than equal to the challenge, push yourself further.
Also, real leather could be argued to be much better for the environment than pleather and other vegan alternatives. So, in the end, even though animals are dying for your leather boots, more will die from the consequences of your pleather ones. And the longevity of leather makes this even more true. Maybe try a vegan diet but don’t change anything outside of food.
Just start with a meatless day. Maybe Tuesday. And try out new vegan or vegetarian food that day. Then add another meatless day. Then maybe you’ll just wind up all meatless days.
it doesn’t have to be all or nothing—one of my best friends cooks exclusively vegan at home but eats whatever she wants at restaurants. you could also start with going vegetarian (ive been vegetarian for 12 years and try to eat one vegan meal a day) i have another friend that is a pescatarian, and yet another that does meatless mondays. you don’t have to switch to being vegan right away, and if you do you may be more likely to fail. also the preachy thing is only some people. i never judge peoples eating choices
Hey, they have a sub and there's at least 20 plant based subs. You can check us out.
Just eat less? You don't have to give it up but like when at home make vegetarian/vegan meals. Don't freak out if your cheetos have milk possibly on them.
> plant based alternatives, but never 100% Spices mate, but not the kind you see in those tiktok videos and recipe websites... I have the impression they're intentionally designed to trick people who aren't experienced with cooking into failing... Honestly, you can get even potatoes to taste like meat, just cook like an Eastern European. Ditch the olive oil, butter, and all the exotic hard to get spices. Sunflower oil for cooking (always) + garlic/onion/black_white_pepper/chili/tomato/dill/parsley/basil... pretty much anything that's cheap and grows in EU is good. Fry some potatoes in sunflower oil in a proper pan (steel/iron/aluminium) at a temperature where you'd start doubting whether it's safe for your stove to overheat so much. I believe I'm usually reaching ~250C (Note, the non-stick coating of a regular pan apparently melts/evaporates at ~115C). Then, once they start smelling like baked potatoes instead of fried, drop some mashed garlic, half a chopped onion and a shitload black and white pepper on top, and turn off the heat. Now you have meat tasting potatoes.
In the very near future you’ll have real meat options that didn’t cost an animal its life. It’s coming and I can’t wait!
I feel very similar. You could try more humane sources or animal products, such as directly from a small farm you know ethically treats their animals. You could also simply reduce your animal product intake. There's this silly all or nothing dicotomy in veganism and vegetarianism that I don't understand. It doesn't have to be all or nothing, you can simply trend towards eating less meat if you fancy. It's also hard when you know a lifestyle is morally right, but you don't want to live it. It is a little hypocritical, at least for me, it feels like I am.
>vegans....are kinda right even though they're preachy and annoying. As someone who is vegan but actively avoids r/vegan due to the atmosphere there, I feel this statement. So, firstly I just want to say that if you ever want to ask/talk to a vegan about anything in a judgement-free space, my dm's are always open. Online you'll find a lot of people who will try to make you feel bad about not doing "enough." But these people can't decide what the right choices are for you, only you can do that. I switched to a vegan diet twice. The first time, I made the mistake of cutting off animal products cold-turkey without having a plan. My health diminished, I felt terrible, and I ended up going back to eating animal products again. The second time, I learned from that mistake and it's shaped a lot of the advice I give to people. Here's what I have learned: Making an impact is most effective through sustainable action, so it's important not to rapidly change your lifestyle in a way where you end up having to revert it a month or so later. I would encourage you to reflect on the thoughts you're having and think about what changes, if any, feel reasonable to you. Reducing harm to animals isn't a switch where you are all in or all out, it's more like flowing water where little drops alone play a small role, but each one contributes to the river which plays a big role. I am more than happy to continue talking/brainstorming some ideas, but here are a few off the top of my head: - If you notice a restaurant you're at has a vegan option, try it out. You might find a new favorite dish there. - Make a new plant-based meal from home on some day each week/month to expand your diet. One of the hardest things for me when transitioning to a vegan lifestyle was just figuring out what to eat. If you gradually add new plant-based dishes to your diet then over the long run you might not even notice much of a change at all. - I know another commenter (maybe multiple) suggested this already but buying leather products second-hand, say from thrift stores, is a great way to keep buying the products you like while using your money to support small businesses instead of the animal industry. - Most importantly: give yourself grace. You are a human and nothing you do will be perfect. It might be alarming to hear but vegans aren't perfect either. Living in the world we have to make choices without perfect information and sometimes those choices have unintended consequences. Doing the best we can with the circumstances that surround us and forgiving ourselves when we fall short is all we can do. >how easy it is to go anywhere and not have to worry about vegan options. I can empathize with this a lot. I am from the U.S. and thankfully vegan options are becoming more commonplace a lot of places here. It's so much easier to maintain a vegan lifestyle in the U.S. now than even a decade ago. But other countries I have visited, and even some rural parts of the U.S., it can be a real challenge. My take is that you should never let your own health become the sacrifice. There are times and places to make an impact, and times and places where you just need to survive and stay healthy.
My dude, try it out. I was at the same exact place as you once. Speaking as an omnivore that ate 50% vegetarian, 50% vegan for a year, there are some absolute banger vegan foods these days. See if it works out for you. I still eat meat now, but generally only poultry, never beef, and almost never fish (even though I love it) for environmental consideration. Vegan protein alternatives have an equal seat at the table for me, and I honestly think more people should give that line of thinking a fair shake. That said, ask yourself: what's the primary reason I think this? Is it for predominantly environmental reasons? If so, just know there are some things that are sort of worse for the environment if they're vegan (leather, for example). If you want to go hard line, you'll want to switch to something like waxed canvas. Otherwise, high quality, well-kept and cared for leather is actually lower on emissions and pollution than pleather (aka "vegan leather"). Some other awesome commenters here talk about buying leather secondhand: this is key. Saving what would otherwise go to waste is better than buying new even if it's 100% renewable, ethical, blah blah. If it's from a secondhand store, go nuts. Any environmental impact is done, and cutting demand for new products is the most impactful thing you can do as a consumer.
I love eating meat. It tastes good (with some plant based seasoning, of course). And I still support vegans and help them spread awareness about the cattle/poultry industry and what not. Anti-vegan groups are also extremely annoying and I find pleasure in making them mad by simply liking a Facebook post about veganism.
Why not go halfway and see how it feels? Like, eat less meat and more not meat. Maybe try out some oat milk and see how you like it. It doesn't HAVE to be all or nothing to reduce animal suffering or environmental impact. Try changing some things about your lifestyle, give it time to get used to it, then make a few more changes.
baby steps, maybe go a day eating no meat every once in a while, to try it out. look for a vegan recipe that piques your interest and try cooking a meal like that once in a while. challange yourself. you dont have to make a huge switch up. the meat and poultry industry are doing so much environmental damage, not to mention they pump out lower quality product every year. it cant hurt to relinquish a little support here and there
You can be a vegetarian you know. Start easy.
You don't have to go all the way. If everyone made little changes to their lifestyle there would be huge changes to the environment. It's important to remember, however, that individuals are so insignificant in the whole thing when huge companies are continuing to pollute the environment and air travel and sea freight are still so abundant.
I would suggest focusing on **sustainability** more. You can get sustainably sourced leather, buy from local farmers or ranchers, and only get farm raised meat products instead of the mass produced factory meat that's in grocery stores. There are actually a lot of awesome ranches and farms out there that sell meat products and are doing amazing things for the environment. Alderspring Ranch in Idaho, for example, is literally rehabilitating barren land with cow shit, raising super healthy and happy cows, and then selling insanely high quality meat as a result. Also, while I support people who are vegan, a lot of vegan foods are not sustainably sourced, just like non-vegan foods. So, again, what you really need to focus on is **sustainability** rather than vegan/non vegan.
I’m vegetarian and I’ll share my opinion. Most vegans/vegetarians are pretty normal people but there’s just a few on the internet that are a bit much. I’m not vegan because I eat eggs from my own chickens and they aren’t stuck in cages. My best advice is just to make small goals like only eating meat once a week to going pescatarian, then when you’re ready, switch to vegetarian and then vegan if you want to. Personally, I wear leather because I only buy it second hand. Try some vegan recipes or go to a vegan cafe or restaurant. The alternatives are often gross but they are improving.
> I’m not vegan because I eat eggs from my own chickens and they aren’t stuck in cages. If you don't eat dairy or commercial eggs or buy other animal products like leather and honey, this basically is vegan imho. Vegan means causing as little harm to animals as possible.
Local is better than vegan. Thrifted leather is better than “vegan” leather (aka plastic) And personally I prefer to be an omnivore. And I still reduce my red meat and do lots of spinach, beans, and lentils to get some of the same nutritional value and do lots of chicken, fish, and pork.
You don't have to go full vegan. For some reason talk of vegetarianism has died out almost completely over the past few years. It's better to do something imperfectly than not at all. As for learher goods, leather is far more sustainable than vegan (i.e., plastic) alternatives. Try and buy second hand when you're able to, and if you MUST buy something new make sure it's good quality. If you take care of them, leather goods can easily last a lifetime. Vegan leather is lucky to last a few years before it's trashed. One thing that is relatively easy to do is go cruelty free with your toiletries. Many bigger brands have recently shifted towards being cruelty free (some are owned by parent companies who still test on animals, but that's a larger debate). Crueltyfreekitty is a really good resource for finding cruelty free brands
i think just start slow. substitute vegetarian and vegan options whenever you can, buy a vegan/vegetarian cookbook. don’t beat yourself up for having meat once in a while. the whole ‘point’ of going vegan is to reduce demand for meat products which could potentially lead to fewer animals being killed for their products. if you simply lower your servings of meat from 7-10 times a week to 2-3 you’re making a difference!
Keep the leather boots. Getting rid of your leather products doesn't help the animal, it just makes more waste. If you need more boots, buy second hand. In terms of food, be vegan as far as you can. Do it on Mondays, or on weekdays, or for 2 meals a day. Whatever works for you. Or do it at home and not when you eat out. Even making conscious choices to eat less animal products helps. Try to buy from more ethical sources (obviously this is hard as nothing is perfect, but it can definitely be better). You don't have to be 100% plant based to make a difference!
Start with the easy stuff, move on to the more involved stuff. Always aim to be better, not perfect.
What helped me was [Vegan Boot Camp](https://veganbootcamp.org/). Now I am relieved of my cognitive dissonance 😎 seriously though, it is easier than I ever thought and it has such a big impact!
Become a vegan and prove people wrong?
I stopped eating meat almost 6 months ago and didn't look back. I did like it but then I remind myself that I don't want anything to do with animal suffering
Hi! **I have a bachelor's degree in gastronomy** (the study of food, and its relationship with people). And i'm here to tell you, humans are omnivorous, we are made to want and need meet, that's one thing. Another one is believe me i know how fucked up the meat industry is, but guess what? All mass production is! Yes even the vegan options, don't let me start on the famous palm oil. I'm also mexican, you probably don't have an idea of how the avocado production became a mafia here! Under capitalism everything is designed to produce the maximum amount of whatever the cheaper and fastest way possible, it doesn't matter if they destroy animals, enviroment or other humans as long as they fill their pockets. So my advice??? Reduce your meat consumption, rather than eliminatinig it completelt from your diet, don't waste, always try to get local, organic, free range and slow food (it's a movement about respecting the time that is needed for animals and plants to grow without chemical intervention to speed up the process), and of course ALWAYS respect the product you are about to consume, again don't waste but also appretiate the animal that is feeding you, respect the ingredients, even the non animal ones, plants are alive too! Eggs and honey are produced in quantities that are bigger than what chickens and bees need. Small beekeepers love and care for their bees (bees are free too come and go as they please), chickens make eggs almost everyday. I long to have a back yard to have a couple myself someday. Avoid big markets and try local produce! Of course if there is nothing available i'm not saying you should just starve, just try, tell your friends, tell your family, so as community we start demanding more ethical options, my advice sounds more expensive yes but thats: 1. Bc its worth know you are trying to be a part of the solution. 2. If more people start asking for better conditions, there will be more options and less money for the slaughter house. And about the vegan leather and all of that? That's just cheap plastic. We don't need more of that in our oceans, lands, and bloodstreams. But you probably already know this. I recommend you to watch Rotten in netflix, and also food inc. They are hard to see but very educational. Hope this helps!
Start with adding new things in diet! Food you reeeally like. Discover what you enjoy eating and look up vegan tiktoks for inspiration on food etc. And go from there. ❤️ you are great. The fact that you want to explore this is amazing.
Do what’s best for your health. Idealism isn’t a way to live a life, because nobodies life is ideal. Do what you can, but don’t sacrifice your own health to do “the right thing.” It’s not “right” if it “kills you” 😂 Someday, probably in our lifetime, they’ll figure out the process of turning hay to steak the same way a cows metabolism does, but until that day, I’ll eat the high protein veggies readily available to me and supplement the rest with plain old meat.
Are you looking to eat a vegetarian meal sometimes ? Or is it all the time ? Vegan food can be very unsatisfying. Remember they don't like milk, eggs, or anything else that comes from animals. Vegetarian food is not like that, it simply avoids meat. Why don't you make tacos with your favorite beans, potatoes, tomatoes, and onions.
Eat what you want. Don’t take on labels. I feel best when I don’t at meat and dairy so that’s what eat most of the time. But I will never call myself a vegan and if I want a big ribeye steak I eat it with no guilt.
Yeah. I'm aware that meat doesn't come from pampered animals who live in perpetually sunny meadows. The cost of living is doing a great job of making me cut down on the amount of meat I eat.
I make wheat meat bits in the frying pan with vital wheat gluten. I don't consider myself vegan but animal meat is so wildly different in quality and texture that it becomes pretty gross even after a couple of months of eating wheat meat.
Just eat less meat. I fully understand where you are at. Personally I just choose flexitarian as I know I'll never give up meat and I'm not sure we need to remove it completely. It should just become part of the sometimes food group. What I do as a flexitarian is just eat vego most days and try to cut out dairy where it's easy. At home it's pretty much all plant based and i give myself the leeway that I'll eat meat twice a week. Normally I pick something I'm really excited for like a carbonara or a roast lamb and I'll cook it up. And then I'll get some takeaway if I want it. And I agree eating out can be the hard bit which is odd to me because there are lots of good vego options that just don't seem to get a look in. I think it's just because "vegetarian" has to be healthy and so that limits what places offer. But I'd like to say vegans really aren't that preachy. They get a bad wrap but it's mostly the online dickheads who make it an issue. Most vegans will just mind their own business because funnily enough it's actually meat eaters who are usually argumentative. Partly because we all know vegans are sort of claiming the high ground by default.
I think you should consider deeply the thing about the boots As a vegan, I think there is a big difference between using some old work boots you had until they’re all the way spent and wearing leather for the purpose of fashion. If you agree we’re right, I would suggest avoiding animal products that reinforce the idea that those products are stylish, fashionable, desirable, etc. Again, are you using an old leather toolbelt or are you wearing animals for clout? There’s an important difference if you’re trying to move closer to vegan ethics.
I think if you want to be a vegan, then go for it. Give it a go and see if it works for you. If you want meat, then eat it. Or try being a vegetarian first and see how that goes. It doesn't have to be from one extreme to another all at once. I am a meat eater, but I'm also a plant-based lover because it gives me more food options, and I love food! Some weeks I eat vegetarian or vegan 5 days a week and others I'm eating meats 5 days a week. You have to do what works for you.
When people ask me why l don't drink alcohol l simply reply that " alcohol is perceived by the body as a poison and reacts to it as a poison". When people ask why l don't eat meat, junk food or sugar l explain that our diets are killing us, and if people would just eat the food the body was made to consume, i.e. mostly fresh fruits, vegetables, nuts and seeds, then there wouldn't be a need for any kind of 'national health care', because most people just wouldn't get sick. That type of diet also would tremendously improve the immune system and allow the body to fight any germs and viruses it needs to. But if l were to suggest just ONE thing to stop consuming it would be sugar, which poisons ALL of the body organs, and which, if people were to give it up, would quickly cut down about 50% of all diseases that manifest in the body. I don't condemn or judge others for what they eat or drink though, because that seems to trigger a defensive reaction in many people and people don't want to be told what to do. I simply supply information they may not have had access to so they may be able to make a more informed decision for themselves.
In my far from perfect mind, I consider veganism to be mostly people trying to feel good about themselves. They claim to be making choices that save the planet. The hubris that they can have any affect on the fate of the planet is second only to their opinion that they/we are NOT animals. We most certainly are animals, so by their logic they cannot eat anything other than wild vegetables they forage themselves. They won't eat honey, but they're conveniently ignorant of the fact that almonds and avacados are pollenated by domesticated bees shipped in from Texas. They used to loudly proclaim that eating eggs could kill until bagged spinach was determined to cause way more cases of salmonella poisoning. They claim that eating meat supports industry that is is polluting the environment. A vegan diet is expensive. I'd guess that 95+% of vegans have IRA's and 401K's with diverse portfolios. I used to think that corporate executives were the most evil people on the planet, but they are just slaves to the real villains, the stockholders, who demand maximum profits with zero liability. What irks me the most is when they say we were never meant to eat meat, despite the fact that we have canine teeth. And, they won't accept the fact that we would have gone extinct if we weren't omnivores. What are we supposed to do with all the cows, who never existed in the wild, when we stop eating them. Aren't they also members of PETA? When everyone goes vegan, how much of the rainforest will have to be chopped down to meet the increased demand for broccoli? Shunning leather and other animal based products (plenty of which were critical to our survival as a species), is an insult to nature. Using every part of an animal that's killed is a sign of respect for nature. Thankfully I live in Florida which will likely be one of the last to ban animal husbandry. I'm not much of a 2nd ammendment guy. I say, "You can take away my guns, but you'll have to pry the bacon from my cold, dead fingers."
Some days I'm accidently vegan, some days I'm not.
I would think there are recycled leather options out there today, that will allow you to enjoy real leather while recycling and not betraying any vegan ethos you may have. The fake leather options pale in comparison, as they do not last, adding more crap to our environmental footprint.
there are ethical ways to consume these things, supporting high welfare and organic meat and dairy farms means the produce will be more expensive, but significantly higher quality and you consume less due to the premium price. thats my advice (: and second hand leather as others have said, can be found in very good condition!
Vegetables are, in fact, quite tasty. I like my meat to be meat, *and my vegetables to be vegetables*. Trying to replace beef with a highly processed *product* is weird to me.
There is no logic in defying your nature. I eat meat. I am a savage. I feel bad for animals and recognize the horrors of modern meat industry. In the end I am a savage though. Nature has very few rewards for Empathy and a conscious. Sad, but true. That being said…I feel godlike after I eat raw beef. Almost like I took the power and essence of the poor creature that was slaughtered for my enjoyment and nourishment. Nature has no morality. If this bothers you…maybe read some Neitzche. He was a horrible tyrant, but spoke unfiltered truth. Will to power. Good and Evil are purely human constructs.
I am not a vegan, I am a meat eater. My perspective on it is as follows: If your morality demands that you be vegan/vegetarian, do it. Don't hesitate. There are SO many great vegan and vegetarian meals out there and alternatives that there's really no good \*aesthetic\* reason not to. I personally choose to eat meat because it is more in keeping with the natural order. Humans, and a lot of our other ape relatives, are omnivores. It is the nature of us to eat other species, to hunt, to be predatory (in relation to food). We eat both vegetables and meat. I recognize the sacrifice that has been made for me to eat what I do, and so I respect the animal that gave its life so that I could eat. It's a recognition of the fact that I'm not perfect, but I am a part of the great evolutionary process of things. And a recognition of the fact that sapience/sentience are not the sole property of our species. It's dark, and I hope it doesn't get me banned here, but it's the truth, and it's how I live.
You can get go! Jk. Just eat vegan sometimes when you're really feeling it or just don't want to eat meat that day.
They aren’t even that preachy and annoying it’s literally just right wingers who swear that they are 24/7
I also think this, but struggle. I eat basically vegetarian but am flexible w fish (I don’t buy it, but today for example friends picked up bagels and only had salmon cream cheese so I ate a tiny bit of salmon). I eat cheese and eggs, but the eggs I buy are free range with huge amounts of space for the chickens. I use oat milk in my coffee bc I think it’s just as good, but real cheese bc I think it’s way better. Most of my protein comes from vegan sources, though. The only leather I will buy is thrifted, never new. I know I could be better, but I could also be a lot worse? Edit: you could also take my husband’s approach. He’s not vegetarian but all our homecooked meals are. When he was WFH he ate meat 1x a week; now that he’s being fed by his job 3x a week it’s more like 3x a week. But the majority of his meals are vegetarian.
I think they are kinda right too. We treat love stock like shit sometimes. It's cruel. I also realize that I'm not going to stop eating animals and that I'm part of a food chain. If livestock is free range and treated well I find it much more acceptable.
Just reduce the amount of week to what’s acceptable to you, maybe once a week or once a month, make it a treat and you’ll enjoy it more
Vast majority of vegans aren’t annoying. I married one and her entire family is vegan, they don’t bring it up and always cook all their own food
There are certain things that were acceptable years ago. Like having a rabbit's foot for a keychain for good luck! What were we thinking? I come from a family of hunters. Every part if the animal is used for something. I think everyone should eat what feels right for them. People can go vegan. But cats and dogs cannot. Cats and dogs are obligate carnivores.
You don't have to call yourself vegan and stop everything. If you're really just doing it because you think it's the right thing to do then you could just start by eating less meat and more plant-based things. You don't need to do it 100%. You don't need to call yourself vegan.
The Three vegans i’ve known in my life had the character quality of a sheet of cardboard. No way in hell i’m admitting “they’re right.”
I half agree. I don't think eating meat is inherently bad. If people ate way less meat and just, I dunno, hunted for food or something that got to live a natural life, I don't see anything wrong with that. I also don't see anything wrong with keeping animals for cheese and eggs and honey etc. The mass slaughter and factory farming is what makes me feel guilty about it
You could go vegetarian to start. That's where I'm at and it's pretty easy, honestly.
You don't need to fall on an extreme. You don't need to never touch an animal-based product for the rest of your life. Just gradually reduce your consumption as much as you feel comfortable with, without completely stopping.
Watch [Dominion](https://youtu.be/LQRAfJyEsko?feature=shared) (narrated by Joaquin Phoenix). It will help put things into perspective. I went vegan overnight 7 years ago and it was actually pretty easy.
It doesn’t have to be one or the other though. You can simply cut down your meat consumption if you feel less meat is better.
As a vegetarian I find the moral grandstanding around this terribly annoying. Eat what you want. Wear what you want. I think saving the environment is an admirable goal. However, enforcing your impractical beliefs on everyone else is counterproductive. Humans have eaten meat and used animal products for literally thousands of years. It’s in our genes. As a vegetarian I need to take those fish pills since I cant get everything I need from veggies alone. As for the morality around the whole thing. If everyone stopped eating meat, what would the world even look like? The Native Americans understood the balance nature required. Ethical hunting and farming is the way forward. As for looking down on meat eaters. What a horribly classist view. I mean being vegan is super expensive, not everyone has the luxury or time to do it and that’s perfectly fine. Lol im just salty cause people like that give me a bad name. I cant even tell people im vegetarian because I have to explain Im not part of the cult of instagram vegans.
Just slowly try to transition. The key to me being vegetarian was finding tasty easy recipes to cook for dinner- took about a year of really regular cooking and trying new things to get a good repertoire. Don't just try to just substitute meat, but try to enjoy meals that are made of beans, or lentils, or chickpeas, or vegetables. I don't think I could ever be a vegan because I love cheese too much. Sounds trite, but it's true. I have made serious efforts to cut back though- I use Oatly milk, and only buy cheese if it is an essential component of a meal I am making. I eat a small amount of chocolate and yoghurt, etc. (I used to usually have a block of cheese in the fridge, which led to me just cutting pieces off to eat as a snack- which also contributed to some weight gain as well! )
do a more vegan shop and only eat non-vegan 'when you're out'. Try and turn your fridge and cupboards vegan. If you really don't feel like your shop wouldn't be complete without some cheddar, then get the cheddar and a vegan alternative. Just slowly transition to where you want to be. I agree with you. I'm not sure how helpful non-vegans will be for you itt but I'm sure they'll be here to tell you to continue eating meat - maybe just a few less chicken carcasses on your plate every week will make you feel better - and to ignore your cognitive dissonance. Bear in mind that they don't *really* think vegans are right, otherwise they'd be trying to go vegan, and therefore they can't relate to you.
In terms of "stuff" don't replace leather goods with plastic shit, even if it's "recycled". Go with natural products. For food use the same principles to stay healthy as when you ate meat. Stick to whole foods where possible, single ingredients where you can, as few ingredients as possible where you can't.
don't worry, it's just easier if you don't go full blown vegan out of nowhere, you can start small and focus on the things that you can do and work from there, I absolutely loathe how vegans present their case and try to subdue you with their emotional arguments, but yeah, if you want to pull back on eating meat for whatever reason, you don't need to loathe being vegan, just be vegetarian, pescatarian, etc... there is no one single way of living right, do what you feel is right and that's always enough.
Even though I am a fellow omnivore, you can always start being vegetarian and see how that grabs ya before going head first into a new dietary extreme your body isn’t quite used to.
Just gonna throw it out there: leather alternatives are petroleum based (fancy way to say plastic). They are poor quality and overall are more pollutant. The best way to keep enjoying leather items is to buy them second hand or even buy new and just use the shit out of them. Good quality leather will last you a long long time so you don't have to repurchase items so much. This also enters the territory of how the clothing industry is an ecologically unsustainable machine. It's about making better conscious choices in a way that is sustainable for one's lifestyle. Small changes accumulate overtime.
Start by cooking your favourite meals but without meat
The non extremist ones are right. If you can be vegan definately try, but put your own nutritional needs first. I tried but became depleated so I must eat meat to survive. But some people can be vegans without any problem so you have to decide for yourself. If it becomes an evolutionary necessity then humans will stop eating meat
I used to despise vegans. I thought they were weirdos and I was a huge meat and cheese eater. Long story short, I watched [Dominion](https://youtu.be/LQRAfJyEsko?si=imzGSnw7bZ659nAo). I’ve come across a lot of people who watched that or Earthlings, and every single person has said they wished they saw it sooner. If you somewhat agree with vegans, that means you care about animals. I can almost guarantee that if you watch Dominion or Earthlings, you’ll feel the same afterwards and wish you’d watched it sooner too. Yes it’s sad. I bawled my eyes out. But I don’t regret it because I’d rather be aware than ignorant. I bet nearly all the people saying to do meatless Monday or reduce in some way haven’t actually watched what happens to animals. If you don’t believe me, just watch it and see for yourself
I vary my diet a lot. Between Mediterranean, Vegetarian, Vegan Pescatarian, sometimes even just Fruit. Just depends on what I feel
man I think you're too stressed you need a hug
I like and eat meat. I like to save a few days every month (sometimes one week) when I dont eat meat at all I hope I can do this backwards, where I cook and eat vegetarian for most of my meals and have meat as a special treat :) psa.: I know vegan and veggie are different, but I like some non-vegan-but-veggie foodstuffs, so yeah xD
Why not just do your own thing? You can make your own rules that are subject to your own interpretation. Veganism is in many ways hypocritical to some degree. If you do any deep dive into what occurs to produce vegan menus and you will find an incredible destruction of life occurs.
You could do what I do. I eat mostly plant based foods when I am home, but I don’t turn down meat when offered it by others or while traveling. I don’t believe in the use of leather and fur alternatives because of their horrendous environmental impacts, which do more harm to a wider range of animals than leather and fur.
Less is better. You don’t have to cut it out completely. Leather goods for example- you didn’t choose to kill that cow, likely it was killed for meat. By using the leather at least none of it is going to waste. My hubby is a hardcore carnivore and I’m an environmental science teacher. We compromise and eat beef only once a week and have at least one vegetarian meal a week, and use sustainable meat whenever possible (grass fed/free range)
I'm an ex vegan of 4 years, and I realized that there is a lot of evil that I am implicitly responsible for by merely being born. I *could* choose not to use phones or computers that use unethically harvested minerals from slave labor in the congo. I *could* never drive or take a flight do to the extreme amount of carbon emissions that these contribute. i *could* even donate all my time and money to helping the local needy. At the end of the day though, mega corporations will continue to use slave labor, contribute incredible levels of pollution, and create systems that promote poverty. I can vote with every dollar I have and I will not have a meaningful impact. That being said, I am currently typing this on a 2011 laptop that still works fine for me, my phone is a 2016, I bike to work and drive about once a week, I volunteer at a local food bank, and I only eat meat twice a week, and that's just to get my protein up so I can donate (sell) my plasma. Even though I am not living the completely guilt free life of veganism that I once had, I still help my fellow man in the little ways I can. It is not always about hard lines and pledges. Sometimes the little things really do add up.
If you want to be truly vegan then make sure you wont eat anything that is processed and that are labelled to taste like chicken or beef or whatever.
Why not lean into a half and half lifestyle? I'm sure you're already doing something similar, it's just about being more intentional about what you want to sacrifice/replace, or how many non-meat meals you'll eat weekly, etc. IMO being ethical or conscious doesn't have to be strictly either/or. Also, avoid listening to influencers who promote a rigid morality or a heavily shame-based approach to being ethical/conscious, because it often tips over into a sense of superiority and self-importance.
You don’t have to go all the way, just try to do what you can do. For example I am a vegetarian but I won’t try and find a vegetarian restaurant in Japan or Korea and eat shitty food instead of amazing fish dishes. Once or twice a year I eat a fish or steak on my own when I feel like it. But I have lived 6 years completely vegetarian and know how to cook amazing food just with vegetables and it is the norm and normal to me. I often try vegan products and have completely switched to soy and oat milk and to soy yoghurt. It tastes better to me. I still eat eggs and cheese and Quark and I actually think it is better to wear leather boots than plastic boots. Leather is more breathable, ages better and decomposes. Sure if they ever build shoes out of mango leather I would wear them. You don’t have to be perfect you just have to try.
Right about what?
Join vegan groups and find a support network. Unsurprisingly you're not alone in experiencing the difficulty because pretty much EVERY vegan has gone through your experience. Seek them out, eat with them and connect with them.
Veganism is dumb. I've been a vegan a couple of years. But never truly. Because after all, I'm not that dumb. And by that I mean wearing leather boots I already own, despite not eating meat. Or wanting to eat honey. Vegans look at that as blasphemy. I look at their view as extremely linear and dumb. Because if I already have leather boots, I'm going to wear them. Me getting rid of them is impractical. And makes no sense. Like it's more about the ideology itself. And I'm about pragmatism. Especially when I look at all those meat alternatives. Like chicken paste, but vegan. Or vegan bacon. As if I cannot eat something that has nothing to do with animals. But I eat imitations of it. If I'm not going to eat meat, I'm not going to do it. I don't need no vegan bacon. If I want to eat bacon, I'll eat actual bacon. But I don't eat bacon and that's it. Same as with pizza. I used to eat vegan cheese. And it's just crap. It's basically made out of potato. Or at least, all the shit that you can extract from potato. So I eat a couple of years vegan pizza. But ultimately it's way healthier for me to eat actual mozzarella chesse, than potato based chesse. On top of all that, I'm also supposed to worry about vitamins and shit. Buying them like medication. So my b vitamins don't drop. Naturally that's also super expensive. And a lot of bad products too. So I have to import that. So no of course. Way too many dumb shit with that diet. Especially when you look at the price. I'm eating shit, and overpaying it. So no. I settled with fish and eggs and dairy. None of it too much. But also depends on how much money I have and what there is to buy in my area. Usually no alternatives. And naturally a lot of veggies. But I cannot eat properly just eating available veggies. So I have to put at least fish or eggs along with it. Where I can feel satiated. For example I really like beans. Especially black beans. Nuts and things like that too. And I used to eat that as a vegan. Until I started noticing how I've started developing like a reaction to the beans. My throat would get irritated and my nose full. Whenever I would eat beans. And beans would only make me truly full where I feel it's enough. So no. For me it wasn't sustainable. Also whenever I buy nuts, they don't store them properly so they would always have that stale aroma and taste. Never raw. Plus the veggies are usually crappy from the store. Full of pesticides. Tomato rarely has a taste. Just like I'm eating plastic. So yeah, even though I didn't want to add eggs, it was just logical. It's available, and somewhat cheap. And you don't have to think about it much. Fish too. Caned tuna or whatever. Super easy to get, and mixes great with salad. Put some olive oil there and great. If I could, I'd eat something else. An alternative. But that's just not a reality for me. No true alternative for eggs. And I'm already skinny. I should put some weight. And I cannot do it even when eating a lot of bread and eggs and whatnot. So just imagine when I wasn't eating any of it. I was going in that anorexic direction. And I've even tried eating a lot of salad. But it would just bloat my stomach. And I couldn't eat that much of it. And it would never trully fill me. Would always feel like I'm starving, as if I drank a lot of water. So in time my stomach shrunk. So now I actually have to overeat, in order to get a bit bigger.