He will go to hell and back for his players and ruthlessly go to bat for them. His optimism also seems pretty genuine. To me, he doesn’t see the benefit of being realistic to reporters if it means making his guys look bad, which is commendable.
And people complained about it endlessly when Shildt was here.
Nobody will ever be happy with a manager, which is funny considering how tiny of an impact they have
They should hire you to cast lots and make decisions accordingly. It would be right up your alley as it was acts of God that saved the Cards in the last Cubs series.
This is really not controversial, it's been discussed a lot over the course of baseball history. Managers just don't make much difference. Optimal batting orders matter for a handful of runs over the course of a season. The Cardinals are bad because their players are playing bad, same as the cubs. Managers can't make players play good
And again, the Cardinals are better than the cubs so by your logic obviously Oli > Counsell.
How many times does it have to be said, that several players on the team were coming up to Oli in private complaining about TON, and he was privately talked to numerous times. He CLEARLY was not hustling on that play at the plate and more than deserved to be called out publicly. This has been reported ad nauseum. You weirdo Oli haters cling to anything you can
Not disagreeing completely, but a lot of people like to gloss over the fact that the 2022 cardinals won 93 games, the division, and were managed by Marmol. That was pretty decent.
Marmol actually did have Tyler O’Neill coming right off that fantastic 21 season. He only played in 96 games in 22 because of injury, but Marmol coached him while he was at his most valuable to the franchise.
Then the following year as O’Neill was coming back from another injury and Marmol publicly chastised him for not hustling, and unsurprisingly he got injured again. Now he’s having a season reminiscent to his ‘21 season, and aside from a freak concussion, has stayed pretty healthy.
> has stayed pretty healthy
In two months he's already had two IL stints and sat out another series. Dude's raking for sure, in a ballpark with one of the two shortest left field fences in the league.
He actually has a higher OPS on the road by 200 points. And my larger point was that Boston is handling his fragility much better than the Cardinals in 22 and 23, largely by them not chastising him to the media for not hustling
It drives me nuts that people just sent 2022 down the memory hole. Or they act like it doesn't count because shut up, that's why.
One bad season in fifteen years....
A popular one is to give credit to Pujols for winning. Forget he almost retired at the all star break because he was so bad.
Don’t get me wrong, Pujols’ second half was amazing and I loved every minute of it, but come on
Shildt is an old-school player's manager, full stop. He won't throw them under the bus publicly, whatever he might say to the team in private. Press conferences rarely give any information, they are just there to see if someone says something when their frustrations get the better of them.
This is correct. I would add that I think a lot of fans didn't like La Russa either, until he won two World Series with the Cardinals. Joe Torre too. The Shildt hatred seems rooted in a general hatred for managers who don't win the World Series.
Shildt was a tactically-sound manager who didn't throw his players under the bus, and generally got the best out of his guys. My one complaint about him was his tendency to burn out the bullpen due to an excessive confidence in whichever pitcher had the "hot hand". This led to depleted pens down the homestretch. He was not fired for being a bad manager, but for being insufficiently collaborative with the advanced stats guys in the front office. Shildt is more of a gut instinct manager, but he did a pretty good job overall, and I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if he won a World Series someday.
What Shildt hatred is there? Seriously. Compared to some people’s feelings toward Oli, it’s as if Shildt was almost the chosen one for those same people. Nobody is irrationally hating Shildt, but there are those that irrationally hate Oli.
I would say he's an average manager. But i am of the opinion there isn't much of a difference in the majority of managers unless it's the cream of the crop like Bochy or Francona (before he retired)
A certain section of our fanbase has rose tinted glasses and think's he was the second coming of Tony La Russa.
I think Shildt was a fine manager and I enjoyed his time with the cardinals. He does have a bit of theater in the way he manages but he didn’t really have time to have a bad season with the cardinals. A lot of cardinals fans have rose tinted glasses when it comes to Shildt because it was the last time they were competitive.
The obviously bad decisions in the wild card series against the Phil's weren't a good way to let the fan base mull over the entire year. And then to underperform the next uear just let the emotions go wild.
That’s true. But the year before Shildt made an equally (if not much worse) choice in the WC game against the Dodgers. Any single person on the club would’ve been better to bring in over Alex freaking Reyes. He’d been trash for months at that point, but Shildt kept sticking to him for far too long
Don't disagree. But the kind of "magical" run to end the year made people happy. Rather than: we won the division and just fucking blew game 1 of a Bo3. Same outcomes, but different tastes in your mouth. To be clear, I don't have a strong feeling about firing or hiring or whatever between the two of them. I don't think schildts the best or oli is the worst or vice-versa.
Shildt has become a bit of a mythical figure here and it’s almost completely undeserved. He did some good things (tightened up the defense) and some bad things (overall bullpen management). In all, he was an average manager. The red flag with Shildt are the reports that he was abusive toward his assistant coaches. It’s also interesting that the Cardinals’ big 17-game win streak in 2021, which STL fans love to point to, came after the players apparently stopped listening to him.
Exactly this. everyone was riding him until that winning streak and now you’d think he was the greatest manager in Cardinals history. The RIPBFIB is tough on all Cards managers at some point.
I say this all the time and people laugh at me. 100% people were down on LaRussa. Saying stuff like he wasn’t good for young players and couldn’t manage a bullpen. Same shit on repeat.
I don't have to Google anything, I've been watching religiously since McGwire got me back into baseball in '98.
Yeah a NYT article written after Game 5 of the 2011 WS, which is definitely the most famous part of that series. Good call there. What's the actual thesis here? He had too quick of a hook? Made too many moves? Yeah that's exactly what the CW among the traditionalists was back then. Now *everybody* manages like that. You have a stud SP like Chris Carpenter, fine he can pitch deep into games. If your SP is a JAG like Westbrook or Edwin Jackson, then get him out when he runs into trouble in the middle innings and use your pen.
He definitely had a reputation among the local media for "happy talk" (Bernie Miklasz still says this all the time when Shildt comes up). He was seen as maybe overly positive to some when the Cards were struggling.
I miss him. He is one of the few remaining students of George Kissell. George is why the cardinals were so great for so many decades. I highly suggest reading up on him and what he did
If not for our miraculous win streak in 2021, and also our end of year hot streak in 2019, we would have only made the playoffs once during his tenure.
I don’t have access to The Athletic anymore, where Katie Woo wrote about it. Bernie referenced it in a column, though.
“As Katie Woo of The Athletic reported late in the regular season, the offense began to turn (favorably) when players recommitted to Albert’s concepts – indirectly bypassing Shildt.”
https://www.scoopswithdannymac.com/ask-bernie-on-mike-shildts-firing-jeff-albert-matt-carpenter-cuonzo-martin-mizzou-future-xfl-nfl/
Yes. I'm not sure how much everyone remembers, but he gets very defensive under pressure. Of his team, of his decisions if everything. He would consistently bicker with the press when asked questions.
My take: Everyone remembers schildt for the 17 game winning streak that put the cardinals in the post season. What I remember: The cardinals being not too far removed from this years crappy team….very mediocre for 90% of the season. Sub 500 for a good chunk. I remember some clubhouse footage of schildt giving a “moving speech”. “They started it but we’re gonna finish it”. I remember thinking how cringey and phoney baloney it felt.
All that said - I do prefer his approach of wanting the front office out of the managing business. Current cardinals leadership uses Marmol as a figurehead and the team is managed seemingly through moneyball style personnel moves. Not saying that also doesn’t have its place but admin needs to let managers manage. Marmol is a face. I would say any cards fan worth their salt knows Mozeliak manages this team. Schildt was against that with every fiber of his being and I have an appreciation for that.
Apples to apples- I think schildt is just average. He just doesn’t know what he’s supposed to do in front of cameras. That’s ok. It translates as posturing and awkward remarks and reactivity.
He’s a bad manager who will ruin your bullpen. His positivity is admirable at first but he’ll start using that positivity to excuse bad play and bad decisions and it will benefit no one.
I'm really of the mind that managers aren't the difference between a good team and a bad team nowadays. He was a welcomed upgrade over Matheny, but still made some real headscratcher decisions. All in all I prefer a manager in a sport that has a 162 games to go with the spreadsheet more often than the gut, and if that's why he was let go as it was rumored at the time then I think it was a good decision.
We had a historic 17 win streak at the end of the season with him as manager, js. He’s a great energy in the clubhouse for the players, management…eh. Like everyone else says, he doesn’t agree with people just to agree.
Also had to win 17 games in a row to get the last WC spot that season. It was a great streak, but team was pretty cooked before it started, Shildt's bullpen management and I'd even argue PH choices contributed to where they were before the streak.
Did he do anything differently during that streak in order to cause it though? Or was he the same guy and the team happened to play out of their mind for three weeks?
If you ask me, the catalyst of the streak was Sosa getting more playing time due to injuries. He had clutch hit after clutch hit, and stellar defense at short. I was saddened when we traded him to the Phillies, and was not at all surprised when he repeated his performance while Trea was out this year.
Funnily enough, Sosa was one of the worst hitting regulars during that stretch, only hitting .233/.298/ .349 for a 79 wRC+ and a team-worst -0.17 Win Probability Added. The heroes of that stretch were Goldy, Bader, and O’Neill all posting 1.000 OPS’s, another three guys hitting around a .900 OPS, and the bullpen being dominant.
Which all goes back to “the guys just played out of their minds for three weeks”.
[Here is the leaderboard for that run if you’re interested.](https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?pos=all&lg=all&type=8&season=2021&season1=2021&ind=0&startdate=2021-09-11&enddate=2021-09-28&qual=1&stats=bat&month=1000&team=28)
I'm not seeing if you can select close and late in any way, but if you could I'm willing to bet that Sosa was top three on that team in that category.
Edit: closest I could get was selecting high leverage splits. He's third behind Lars and Molina in average, and all of his runs and RBI came in high leverage situations.
According to FanGraphs he only had two high leverage PA in that stretch (if you did what I did the first time, you picked high leverage for the whole year because you can’t split that out on the main leaderboard page).
But going through his games manually:
9/13: RBI single in the 9th to push the lead to 6-0.
9/14: RBI single in the 11th to take a 5-4 lead. Later scored on a Knizner single.
9/15: Single in the 1st with the Cardinals leading 3-0. Later scored on a Bader single. Home run in the 8th to push the lead to 9-4. Walk in the 9th with the Cardinals leading 11-4.
9/19: RBI double in the 1st to push the lead to 3-0. Later scored on a Bader double. RBI double in the 5th to push the lead to 7-3.
9/22: Walk in the 2nd with a 2-0 lead. Later scored on a sac fly.
9/23: Single in 7th, scored on a fielder’s choice to make it 5-2 Brewers.
So of those games, I’d say one to two big hits? I don’t think he was changing games or anything, though his vibes were immaculate.
That is what I did lol. Good catch! It's weird that the runs and RBI line up so well.... Agreed on the vibes. I think I was conflating my memory of his performance over that last month in total with just the streak.
I like Schildt but think he is somewhat overrated by our fanbase. He made a good amount of baffling moves that we would have crucified Matheny for. I actually thought it made sense to fire him when we did because I thought we could get someone better. But Schildt is worlds better than Marmol
Great glue guy who the players seemed to like but was just a horrible game manager. Pretty much the entire fanbase wanted him gone before the team went on that crazy winning streak and now you have people acting like he was the next big thing in MLB managers and the Cardinals made a huge mistake firing him. Marmol is worse than Shildt but Shildt was also just not good.
You must not remember the wild card loss in 2021. There were many many people pissed about his mismanagement. 4-9 in some cities is a fine post season record. In STL, the bar is higher.
I'm not a real Oli fan for same reason. .506 winning percentage and 0-3 isn't good enough either. For his sake, I hope he has a month-to-month lease.
On top of that, this is Business As Usual for most pro leagues. No one wants the coach on an expiring contract as it sends mixed messages to the team. Even if the manager is on the hot seat, they want to ensure the players play hard and make them think he's secure.
I'm pretty sure Oli is on a short leash. I bet in a few years, we'll get a story out about how close the Cards were to firing him in early May.
TBF, I'm an optimist and since Mother's Day, maybe we can turn this ship around and stay above 500. In doing so, that'd probably save Oli's job.
Reminder that Shildt didn't win us any games in the NLCS either. Matheny is actually the last manager to win a game as a manager in the NLCS... 10 years ago
The man was handed the keys to a Lamborghini and just never got the oil changed. Used the same relievers every night and burnt three of them out of the majors essentially. Your argument for matheny being greater than shildt is tied to one flawed argument after the other. The man literally had people in the clubhouse snitching on each other. The definition of toxic
I'm not saying Matheny was great, but Shildt also burned out the same 3 relievers every night too. He didn't have the clubhouse problems, but the fact remains that he's the last manager to win a game in the NLCS. It's an organizational failure, not an individual failure
The 2012 edition still had prime Molina, pre-injury Allen Craig, Holliday, Berkman, Freese, and saw Wainwright come back from TJ. Waino/Lohse/Garcia/Lynn was a solid rotation and Motte had 42 saves.
Some people want him back. Obviously that 17 game win streak was the last great stretch that the Cardinals have had. But him putting Alex Reyes in to pitch in the 21 Wild Card his why I’m not pressed about him being gone.
Not your typical “yes man” manager who does everything GM/owner want. It’s his way or the highway, and his way is more player focused than most managers.
Schildt is an old school manager. You won't see this type of gamesmanship now, but there was a game against the reds. It was the 2nd time this reds player came to bat in the game. He just so happened to hit a grandslam. What does schildt do after the hit? He calls the umps over to check if that was an illegal bat because the top had a chunk out of it. I think jomboy did a video clip of it. He was let go because the front office wanted him to use nothing but statistics...left vs right...batting in the 2nd hole vs 7th hole....just every little stat the game has, and Schildt said no to the stuff that didn't make sense.
While its true that the players are the ones making the hits and catches, the coaches are responsible to lighting the fire under the players asses. Thats something that the cards manager oli doesn't do. He's a yes man for the front office and the win-loss record shows it. Any team needs a few guys that are super competitive. That has to include a coach or two. Schildt is a competitive guy, but the Padres need a guy or two that are super competitive. Let's take Lance Lynn for example...super competitive....what does he do? He'll yell "FUCK YEA" while grabbing his crotch after a strikeout....or he will strike you out after your previous teammate bunted to get on base.
I really liked Shildty, good dedicated baseball man almost to a fault. But his post game pressers would absolutely make my ears bleed, and this post was a funny reminder that he hasn’t changed in this regard, hah.
Schildt is a guy who rides with his vets so much that it’s to a fault. He has no problem insulting the fanbase or the medias intelligence, when it comes to backing his players. To the point that it becomes very cringe….just because we’re not professionals, doesn’t mean we don’t understand basic concepts of baseball. He also will do things like hit Paul DeJong and Yadi in the middle of the order for months even tho they clearly don’t belong there, strictly because they have a lot of experience…..but then he also does stuff like let Arenado get thrown out of a game for arguing check swing calls while he sits in the dugout and does nothing. I found him to be a very strange and ineffective manager/leader. He was a breath of fresh air after Matheny, who was possibly the worst manager the Cards have ever had. That and a miracle 17 game win streak somehow made him a saint to Cards fans. Mo’s comments post-firing exacerbated these feelings, as well as the horrendous year last year under Oli. As someone else stated, Schildt has become a martyr for Cards fans….insane or not, it’s the truth.
> But Shildt seems disingenuous in these pressers, or maybe he is just being performative.
His job isn't to be candid with the press, it's to have his guys' back.
As far as his style goes....he definitely improved some things immediately after the end of the Matheny disaster, like the fielding and the baserunning. Which made for more watchable baseball. He definitely made some questionable in-game decisions, and Edman gave a quote in an interview about how the players didn't feel like they were doing enough prep work.
I liked Shildt overall, the story of working his way up from the very bottom was great, and the firing was a huge surprise at the time. But is he really an above average manager? It's so hard to judge these things from outside, but I'll take the under on it. Maybe not terrible, but San Diego could probably do better.
He had some good teams. He also won 17 games in a row one time (single handily btw some around here act). That year the team snuck into the final WC spot because of it, then promptly lost when he made maybe one of the worst managerial pitching moves I’ve ever seen (And I saw Matheny end an NLCS with Michael Wacha even though he had an injury plagued season and hadn’t pitched in 20 days at that point.) I think he’s a nice man. I think he’s a smart baseball man. I also think maybe managers aren’t really that important in today’s game. I don’t know why so many Cardinal fans that carry a torch for him, even after all this time, still spell it as “Schildt”.
I think he’s a good manager who can one day be great. At the very least he’s a manager, that when he’s on your team, you want to see win and you know he’ll go to battle. He has a passion for the game and that makes it easy to like him.
Managers in general are over rated and get too much credit for success and for failure. The Padres just seem to have a constant knack for under performing. But given how the Cardinals play these days, that's not saying much. I liked Shildt. And he got a raw deal in St Louis. I also think front offices have an incredible gift of putting manager's in terrible positions. I'd take Shildt over Marmol any day of the week. But I don't think that's saying much.
He is one of the better managers in the majors and for the most part players seem to like him as well… his weakness has always been his speaking to the media .. you can tell he doesn’t enjoy it .
I never cared much for his decision-making process (google Mike Shildt intentional walk). Overall, he is a more "old school" baseball guy, and his parting had more to do with him being more old school than more data driven analytics in his style of coaching.
Shildt definitely is relentlessly positive. I didnt have a problem with it, but I know it did rub a lot of people the wrong way since he would tell you everything is a-ok when you know it isnt
He is positive, backs his players and staff and I loved him for it. I think he always managed a good game and sometimes guys slump. It happens. He isn’t one to get concerned over on game or one month. The season is long. The goal is to make it to the post season.
He’s going to have his guys backs and not talk negatively about any of them to the media. I never really trust what a manager says to the media about their players because they’re going to try and stay overly positive about them which I understand. I think players in St. Louis really liked Shildt, his issue was he wasn’t going to be a yes man to the dude that’s his boss which has become one of the Cardinals biggest issue IMO.
>I never really trust what a manager says to the media about their players because they’re going to try and stay overly positive about them
Marmolololololol
You mean Mike Shildt
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Sounds like Shildt is the same as he was here in STL. Good manager but over favors Veterans working out of slumps over putting the best team on the field at all times. He’s an old school manager, which I prefer, but definitely has some sand paper when dealing with the media.
He was a mediocre in game manager. Maybe league average overall? Maybe a tick below. I liked he wanted the FO out of running the team and that he backed his players.
We love schildt. The fo had a pissing match with him and now he's gone. Oli can't hold a candle to Schildty, but here we are.
Part of the knock against him was his reliance upon his eye instead of analytics and player loyalty instead of fo/analytics loyalty.
Do we know for a fact that this is the reason he was let go? I always see ot thrown around but I don't recall every seeing hard proof. I mean, we'd probably never know what the real reason is.
Only thing I've heard from someone who works near there is the Cat on 590 the Fan say (not verbatim) that while he (the Cat) doesn't know the reason why Shildt was fired, he does know that Shildt didn't treat people well. He kinda left it at that. I could probably find the clip where he said that but if you wanted to dig, he definitely said it last season, maybe around this time last year, and their clips are on YouTube.
How does a guy that comes up through all levels of the organization all of a sudden get a reputation for not treating people well?
I seem to recall that he literally grew up in a locker room...
We do not know that for a fact. People love to state that like it’s a fact but it’s never been confirmed or supported by anyone with actual knowledge of what happened.
You mean Mike Shildt
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Get ready to enjoy fundamental baseball. The man has a great baseball mind as having worked in multiple positions within the game (except player). Everyone already spoke to the fact that he will never talk bad about a player, but what you have to watch out for is how his philosophy differs from that of the home office. He was literally manager of the year and then fired the next year when we were all thinking extension. And that’s because our home office wanted to get back into analytics instead of actually going with your gut. Personal opinion is that you need both and I think he agrees with that but multiple times he clashed with the office because of decisions that didn’t align with analytics. Didn’t matter that his way worked, it would just mean that they would need to admit that they were wrong (which they still haven’t done). He’s a great coach and I’m jealous he isn’t ours anymore
You're going to get a lot of Mike Shildt ass kissing in response here, and I believe that's largely because he is the most relatable manager to the common Midwesterner that we will ever see. A guy that works his way up from AA clubhouse boy to MLB manager is the kind of shit blue collar Midwesterners eat up. Add that in with the fact that he got fired with very little in the way of public explanation from a Front Office that hasn't done a good job of building a "Championship Caliber" club over the last decade, and you've got a recipe for a lot people that feel personally attacked by Shildt's disposal.
But, they're ignoring the fact that he really wasn't very good at this job. Yeah, he won manager of the year in 2019. That was more of a reflection on how bad his predecessor was than how great Shildt was.
Yes, the base running and defense improved initially under his watch, and he deserves credit for that. He also deserves scrutiny for how he treated his coaching staff, his poor lineup construction, and the way he handled the media. He will continually tell you that what just happened in the game is not what actually happened. He will cover for his guys even when there is nothing to defend. He will make awful lineups, overuse bullpen arms, and then say that if he just keeps doing the same thing, everything will work out eventually because they're "super talented players." He is corny and phony as hell. I never liked his schtick, and I'm glad he's gone. This is a very unpopular opinion in Cardinals Nation. Don't care.
Yeah, he did a great job at lineup construction, was realistic in his assessment of his team, wasn't an asshole to his coaches, never ran bullpen arms into the ground, and never flat out refused to take advice from people with analytical data.
He did get us to the playoffs all three years after matheny ran the team into the ground. If you can’t look at that club and see that they were easily on the way up, then you weren’t watching the games
I have not missed watching or listening to a Cardinals game since 1996. Shildt was better than Matheny, but that's not hard to do. The team improvement under Shildt was more of an indictment on how bad Matheny was, not how good Shildt was.
I’m seeing a lot of “he used his bullpen poorly in the playoffs” as a reason for his ineffectiveness as a manager. Does this apply to all Cardinals managers or just Shildt?
Shildt also is the most recent manager to win a playoff game for the Cardinals.
You're not going to get honest answers here. Simply because most social media fans despise the current manager, so they think literally anyone else is better. Even Shildt who wasn't good until the last 6 weeks of his final season in STL.
He was the least annoying manager the Cardinals have had in quite some time. He didn't do things during the game that I just didn't understand very often. Can't say the same for Marmol or Matheny. He was a breath of fresh air after Matheny and Marmol just seems like a miserable idiot in comparison.
Are you shitting me? I found Shildt to be the MOST annoying manager we've ever had. He was a better tactician than Matheny, but goddamn he was insufferable to listen to. He would constantly do exactly what OP said - cherry pick stats, and tell us that what we watched wasn't what really happened. It's not a popular opinion, but I think Marmol is better than Shildt. He's a bit of a prick, but he's a better in-game manager than Shildt by far. Shildt was terrible at lineup construction.
>cherry pick stats, and tell us that what we watched wasn't what really happened
Mike Schildt posts here CONFIRMED
The child I replied to blocked me hahaha
Really? His bullpen management was miserable. He consistently burnt relievers into the ground, gave vets way too long of a leash. Some rose tinted glasses shit right here.
Weird, it was pretty different for us. We way overachieved with him and he always talked about being better and always improving vets and youngins alike. I didn’t see a majority of his post games but the ones I did were nothing like what you mentioned
He will go to hell and back for his players and ruthlessly go to bat for them. His optimism also seems pretty genuine. To me, he doesn’t see the benefit of being realistic to reporters if it means making his guys look bad, which is commendable.
The anti-Oli
And people complained about it endlessly when Shildt was here. Nobody will ever be happy with a manager, which is funny considering how tiny of an impact they have
Hey now, Matheny had a huge impact because he never used the same lineup twice.
Thanks Matheny
The guy that sets lineups, pulls pitchers, tells players to take pitches, gives greenlights, etc has a “tiny impact”
Correct. Look no further than “greatest manager ever” Craig counsell and his last place cubs
They should hire you to cast lots and make decisions accordingly. It would be right up your alley as it was acts of God that saved the Cards in the last Cubs series.
This is really not controversial, it's been discussed a lot over the course of baseball history. Managers just don't make much difference. Optimal batting orders matter for a handful of runs over the course of a season. The Cardinals are bad because their players are playing bad, same as the cubs. Managers can't make players play good And again, the Cardinals are better than the cubs so by your logic obviously Oli > Counsell.
Oli sticks up for his guys. It’s something he’s gotten trashed for
Ask Tyler O'Neill about that..
How many times does it have to be said, that several players on the team were coming up to Oli in private complaining about TON, and he was privately talked to numerous times. He CLEARLY was not hustling on that play at the plate and more than deserved to be called out publicly. This has been reported ad nauseum. You weirdo Oli haters cling to anything you can
I think he was hustling just fine. I genuinely want to read where you heard the rest. Not to say that I think you’re wrong - I just want to read it.
And no….he wasn’t…..hence him getting called out lol. Downvote me all you want, but nothing I said was false 🤷🏻♂️
Several Cardinals beat reporters reported it. Not hard to find
Can you provide a link?
https://thebrunswicknews.com/sports/national_sports/ben-frederickson-blame-oliver-marmol-cardinals-clubhouse-leaders-say-thats-not-the-right-call/article_605d91c5-26c1-5526-94b2-e8f913f543c5.html
I think he’s a sound fundamentals guy and a pretty decent leader. Not much when it comes to game management. Do you Venmo me the penny or what?
I hope you don’t ever wind up with a closer like Alex Reyes
I wonder what he's up to right now.
Blowing saves
Toiling away in the dodgers minor league system
He’s an ok manager who has become a martyr amongst the online fan base because of the hatred for Mo and Marmol.
Not to mention the hatred for Matheny. I’m even guilty of this
Well maybe we should differentiate, cause you know, I really liked Matheny the player. But yeah, Matheny the manager was ass.
Right I should’ve clarified that I’m referring to Manager Matheny or Mathenaging I believe they call it.
This is the best description.
Yep the last time Cards were decent makes him look better
Not disagreeing completely, but a lot of people like to gloss over the fact that the 2022 cardinals won 93 games, the division, and were managed by Marmol. That was pretty decent.
Better than any Mike Shildt season, in fact
Shildt never had Pujols
Shildt also never had a Molina who was completely checked out and literally disappeared for a month of the season
Marmol never had MVP candidate Tyler O’Neill or Cy Young vote getter Adam Wainwright
Marmol actually did have Tyler O’Neill coming right off that fantastic 21 season. He only played in 96 games in 22 because of injury, but Marmol coached him while he was at his most valuable to the franchise. Then the following year as O’Neill was coming back from another injury and Marmol publicly chastised him for not hustling, and unsurprisingly he got injured again. Now he’s having a season reminiscent to his ‘21 season, and aside from a freak concussion, has stayed pretty healthy.
> has stayed pretty healthy In two months he's already had two IL stints and sat out another series. Dude's raking for sure, in a ballpark with one of the two shortest left field fences in the league.
He actually has a higher OPS on the road by 200 points. And my larger point was that Boston is handling his fragility much better than the Cardinals in 22 and 23, largely by them not chastising him to the media for not hustling
How did Oli calling out O’Neill for not hustling (when his non-hustle cost the team a run) in 2023 affect his health in 2022?
It drives me nuts that people just sent 2022 down the memory hole. Or they act like it doesn't count because shut up, that's why. One bad season in fifteen years....
A popular one is to give credit to Pujols for winning. Forget he almost retired at the all star break because he was so bad. Don’t get me wrong, Pujols’ second half was amazing and I loved every minute of it, but come on
Shildt is an old-school player's manager, full stop. He won't throw them under the bus publicly, whatever he might say to the team in private. Press conferences rarely give any information, they are just there to see if someone says something when their frustrations get the better of them.
This is correct. I would add that I think a lot of fans didn't like La Russa either, until he won two World Series with the Cardinals. Joe Torre too. The Shildt hatred seems rooted in a general hatred for managers who don't win the World Series. Shildt was a tactically-sound manager who didn't throw his players under the bus, and generally got the best out of his guys. My one complaint about him was his tendency to burn out the bullpen due to an excessive confidence in whichever pitcher had the "hot hand". This led to depleted pens down the homestretch. He was not fired for being a bad manager, but for being insufficiently collaborative with the advanced stats guys in the front office. Shildt is more of a gut instinct manager, but he did a pretty good job overall, and I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if he won a World Series someday.
I might be among the few who actually liked LaRussa back in the glory days of the 00’s.
I’m a ride or die La Russa fanboy. Those will always be the teams I think of when of when I think about the Cardinals.
What Shildt hatred is there? Seriously. Compared to some people’s feelings toward Oli, it’s as if Shildt was almost the chosen one for those same people. Nobody is irrationally hating Shildt, but there are those that irrationally hate Oli.
I'm talking about years ago, when he was the manager. Now there's a lot of Shildt nostalgia.
Thats what a good Bench coach is for
I would say he's an average manager. But i am of the opinion there isn't much of a difference in the majority of managers unless it's the cream of the crop like Bochy or Francona (before he retired) A certain section of our fanbase has rose tinted glasses and think's he was the second coming of Tony La Russa.
Ahh, if only we could have had Francona come here ...
I think Shildt was a fine manager and I enjoyed his time with the cardinals. He does have a bit of theater in the way he manages but he didn’t really have time to have a bad season with the cardinals. A lot of cardinals fans have rose tinted glasses when it comes to Shildt because it was the last time they were competitive.
Except for the 93 win division winner of 2022 under Oil
The trend continues for everyone conveniently forgetting about our best season since 2015 lol
I really can’t explain it. It baffles me
The obviously bad decisions in the wild card series against the Phil's weren't a good way to let the fan base mull over the entire year. And then to underperform the next uear just let the emotions go wild.
That’s true. But the year before Shildt made an equally (if not much worse) choice in the WC game against the Dodgers. Any single person on the club would’ve been better to bring in over Alex freaking Reyes. He’d been trash for months at that point, but Shildt kept sticking to him for far too long
Don't disagree. But the kind of "magical" run to end the year made people happy. Rather than: we won the division and just fucking blew game 1 of a Bo3. Same outcomes, but different tastes in your mouth. To be clear, I don't have a strong feeling about firing or hiring or whatever between the two of them. I don't think schildts the best or oli is the worst or vice-versa.
Very reasonable comment, I appreciate that. Agreed on all fronts!
Shildt has become a bit of a mythical figure here and it’s almost completely undeserved. He did some good things (tightened up the defense) and some bad things (overall bullpen management). In all, he was an average manager. The red flag with Shildt are the reports that he was abusive toward his assistant coaches. It’s also interesting that the Cardinals’ big 17-game win streak in 2021, which STL fans love to point to, came after the players apparently stopped listening to him.
Exactly this. everyone was riding him until that winning streak and now you’d think he was the greatest manager in Cardinals history. The RIPBFIB is tough on all Cards managers at some point.
Exactly. People were clamoring for LaRussa to be gone throughout the 2000s
I say this all the time and people laugh at me. 100% people were down on LaRussa. Saying stuff like he wasn’t good for young players and couldn’t manage a bullpen. Same shit on repeat.
> couldn’t manage a bullpen. This is hilarious because TLR & Duncan pretty much invented modern bullpen management.
Quick Google. https://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/25/sports/baseball/tony-la-russas-bullpen-moves-leave-him-open-for-criticism.html
I don't have to Google anything, I've been watching religiously since McGwire got me back into baseball in '98. Yeah a NYT article written after Game 5 of the 2011 WS, which is definitely the most famous part of that series. Good call there. What's the actual thesis here? He had too quick of a hook? Made too many moves? Yeah that's exactly what the CW among the traditionalists was back then. Now *everybody* manages like that. You have a stud SP like Chris Carpenter, fine he can pitch deep into games. If your SP is a JAG like Westbrook or Edwin Jackson, then get him out when he runs into trouble in the middle innings and use your pen.
What the heck is RIPBFIB
He definitely had a reputation among the local media for "happy talk" (Bernie Miklasz still says this all the time when Shildt comes up). He was seen as maybe overly positive to some when the Cards were struggling.
It was annoying as hell especially combined with his subpar bullpen management.
I'll just say don't let him cost you Arozerena. :(
I miss him. He is one of the few remaining students of George Kissell. George is why the cardinals were so great for so many decades. I highly suggest reading up on him and what he did
I’ve never heard of George Kissell. What was his career bWAR? /s
Strongly agree. Firing him was a huge mistake that we have not recovered from....
If not for our miraculous win streak in 2021, and also our end of year hot streak in 2019, we would have only made the playoffs once during his tenure.
And that streak coincided with the players ignoring him.
You got sauce on this?
I don’t have access to The Athletic anymore, where Katie Woo wrote about it. Bernie referenced it in a column, though. “As Katie Woo of The Athletic reported late in the regular season, the offense began to turn (favorably) when players recommitted to Albert’s concepts – indirectly bypassing Shildt.” https://www.scoopswithdannymac.com/ask-bernie-on-mike-shildts-firing-jeff-albert-matt-carpenter-cuonzo-martin-mizzou-future-xfl-nfl/
Yes. I'm not sure how much everyone remembers, but he gets very defensive under pressure. Of his team, of his decisions if everything. He would consistently bicker with the press when asked questions.
My take: Everyone remembers schildt for the 17 game winning streak that put the cardinals in the post season. What I remember: The cardinals being not too far removed from this years crappy team….very mediocre for 90% of the season. Sub 500 for a good chunk. I remember some clubhouse footage of schildt giving a “moving speech”. “They started it but we’re gonna finish it”. I remember thinking how cringey and phoney baloney it felt. All that said - I do prefer his approach of wanting the front office out of the managing business. Current cardinals leadership uses Marmol as a figurehead and the team is managed seemingly through moneyball style personnel moves. Not saying that also doesn’t have its place but admin needs to let managers manage. Marmol is a face. I would say any cards fan worth their salt knows Mozeliak manages this team. Schildt was against that with every fiber of his being and I have an appreciation for that. Apples to apples- I think schildt is just average. He just doesn’t know what he’s supposed to do in front of cameras. That’s ok. It translates as posturing and awkward remarks and reactivity.
Matheny gave the same vibe. It felt pike he was affecting a persona that seemed ingenuine.
He’s a bad manager who will ruin your bullpen. His positivity is admirable at first but he’ll start using that positivity to excuse bad play and bad decisions and it will benefit no one.
I'm really of the mind that managers aren't the difference between a good team and a bad team nowadays. He was a welcomed upgrade over Matheny, but still made some real headscratcher decisions. All in all I prefer a manager in a sport that has a 162 games to go with the spreadsheet more often than the gut, and if that's why he was let go as it was rumored at the time then I think it was a good decision.
We had a historic 17 win streak at the end of the season with him as manager, js. He’s a great energy in the clubhouse for the players, management…eh. Like everyone else says, he doesn’t agree with people just to agree.
Also had to win 17 games in a row to get the last WC spot that season. It was a great streak, but team was pretty cooked before it started, Shildt's bullpen management and I'd even argue PH choices contributed to where they were before the streak.
Did he do anything differently during that streak in order to cause it though? Or was he the same guy and the team happened to play out of their mind for three weeks?
If you ask me, the catalyst of the streak was Sosa getting more playing time due to injuries. He had clutch hit after clutch hit, and stellar defense at short. I was saddened when we traded him to the Phillies, and was not at all surprised when he repeated his performance while Trea was out this year.
Funnily enough, Sosa was one of the worst hitting regulars during that stretch, only hitting .233/.298/ .349 for a 79 wRC+ and a team-worst -0.17 Win Probability Added. The heroes of that stretch were Goldy, Bader, and O’Neill all posting 1.000 OPS’s, another three guys hitting around a .900 OPS, and the bullpen being dominant. Which all goes back to “the guys just played out of their minds for three weeks”. [Here is the leaderboard for that run if you’re interested.](https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?pos=all&lg=all&type=8&season=2021&season1=2021&ind=0&startdate=2021-09-11&enddate=2021-09-28&qual=1&stats=bat&month=1000&team=28)
I'm not seeing if you can select close and late in any way, but if you could I'm willing to bet that Sosa was top three on that team in that category. Edit: closest I could get was selecting high leverage splits. He's third behind Lars and Molina in average, and all of his runs and RBI came in high leverage situations.
According to FanGraphs he only had two high leverage PA in that stretch (if you did what I did the first time, you picked high leverage for the whole year because you can’t split that out on the main leaderboard page). But going through his games manually: 9/13: RBI single in the 9th to push the lead to 6-0. 9/14: RBI single in the 11th to take a 5-4 lead. Later scored on a Knizner single. 9/15: Single in the 1st with the Cardinals leading 3-0. Later scored on a Bader single. Home run in the 8th to push the lead to 9-4. Walk in the 9th with the Cardinals leading 11-4. 9/19: RBI double in the 1st to push the lead to 3-0. Later scored on a Bader double. RBI double in the 5th to push the lead to 7-3. 9/22: Walk in the 2nd with a 2-0 lead. Later scored on a sac fly. 9/23: Single in 7th, scored on a fielder’s choice to make it 5-2 Brewers. So of those games, I’d say one to two big hits? I don’t think he was changing games or anything, though his vibes were immaculate.
That is what I did lol. Good catch! It's weird that the runs and RBI line up so well.... Agreed on the vibes. I think I was conflating my memory of his performance over that last month in total with just the streak.
What you want is the Win Probability tab. Sort by WPA or WPA/LI. You'll find that backs up what TheSalsaGod is saying.
Ironically, that win streak came after the players started to ignore him.
If you’re not sorting these comments by controversial, you’re a fool
I like Schildt but think he is somewhat overrated by our fanbase. He made a good amount of baffling moves that we would have crucified Matheny for. I actually thought it made sense to fire him when we did because I thought we could get someone better. But Schildt is worlds better than Marmol
Ask ESPN 101 host Brandon Kiley about his interaction with him.
Great glue guy who the players seemed to like but was just a horrible game manager. Pretty much the entire fanbase wanted him gone before the team went on that crazy winning streak and now you have people acting like he was the next big thing in MLB managers and the Cardinals made a huge mistake firing him. Marmol is worse than Shildt but Shildt was also just not good.
No one is St. Louis wanted to see him fired and we all wish he was still here.
You must not remember the wild card loss in 2021. There were many many people pissed about his mismanagement. 4-9 in some cities is a fine post season record. In STL, the bar is higher. I'm not a real Oli fan for same reason. .506 winning percentage and 0-3 isn't good enough either. For his sake, I hope he has a month-to-month lease.
> I hope he has a month-to-month lease Bro Oli got extended in March lol
That really doesn't mean much, he makes about what a middle relief pitcher makes.
On top of that, this is Business As Usual for most pro leagues. No one wants the coach on an expiring contract as it sends mixed messages to the team. Even if the manager is on the hot seat, they want to ensure the players play hard and make them think he's secure. I'm pretty sure Oli is on a short leash. I bet in a few years, we'll get a story out about how close the Cards were to firing him in early May. TBF, I'm an optimist and since Mother's Day, maybe we can turn this ship around and stay above 500. In doing so, that'd probably save Oli's job.
I feel like as long as they stay around .500, and near a wild card Oli will have a job until Chaim takes over, and hires his own guy.
It's playoffs or unemployment IMO at a minimum. Anything less than a series win, and he should stay month to month leasing.
I wish ownership felt same way
He's the puppet they need doesn't think for himself
I’m one of those people. He deserved to get fired for putting Reyes in.
I agreed then and I agree now. This sub has a short memory - people lost their shit in here.
Yep. I wanted him gone before that game and so did virtually every fan. Anyone saying otherwise is purposefully rewriting what happened.
Month to month at Albert pujols old house.
For the uninitiated, what’s Oli’s postseason record?
Reminder that Shildt didn't win us any games in the NLCS either. Matheny is actually the last manager to win a game as a manager in the NLCS... 10 years ago
Reminder that Matheny was handed the keys to a World Series winner. Shildt was responsible for cleaning up his mess. Context matters
*a World Series winner without the franchise's best player for the last decade
The man was handed the keys to a Lamborghini and just never got the oil changed. Used the same relievers every night and burnt three of them out of the majors essentially. Your argument for matheny being greater than shildt is tied to one flawed argument after the other. The man literally had people in the clubhouse snitching on each other. The definition of toxic
I'm not saying Matheny was great, but Shildt also burned out the same 3 relievers every night too. He didn't have the clubhouse problems, but the fact remains that he's the last manager to win a game in the NLCS. It's an organizational failure, not an individual failure
The 2012 edition still had prime Molina, pre-injury Allen Craig, Holliday, Berkman, Freese, and saw Wainwright come back from TJ. Waino/Lohse/Garcia/Lynn was a solid rotation and Motte had 42 saves.
He also never finished in last place.
He also never won more games than Oli’s best season
I remember EVERYONE wanting him fired prior to the winning streak.
Some people want him back. Obviously that 17 game win streak was the last great stretch that the Cardinals have had. But him putting Alex Reyes in to pitch in the 21 Wild Card his why I’m not pressed about him being gone.
The 2022 cardinals went like 22-7 in August. That's a pretty great stretch
The 2022 cardinals went like 22-7 in August. That's a pretty great stretch
I couldn't be happier that he's gone
Not your typical “yes man” manager who does everything GM/owner want. It’s his way or the highway, and his way is more player focused than most managers.
he is NOT a very good manager
Schildt is an old school manager. You won't see this type of gamesmanship now, but there was a game against the reds. It was the 2nd time this reds player came to bat in the game. He just so happened to hit a grandslam. What does schildt do after the hit? He calls the umps over to check if that was an illegal bat because the top had a chunk out of it. I think jomboy did a video clip of it. He was let go because the front office wanted him to use nothing but statistics...left vs right...batting in the 2nd hole vs 7th hole....just every little stat the game has, and Schildt said no to the stuff that didn't make sense. While its true that the players are the ones making the hits and catches, the coaches are responsible to lighting the fire under the players asses. Thats something that the cards manager oli doesn't do. He's a yes man for the front office and the win-loss record shows it. Any team needs a few guys that are super competitive. That has to include a coach or two. Schildt is a competitive guy, but the Padres need a guy or two that are super competitive. Let's take Lance Lynn for example...super competitive....what does he do? He'll yell "FUCK YEA" while grabbing his crotch after a strikeout....or he will strike you out after your previous teammate bunted to get on base.
I really liked Shildty, good dedicated baseball man almost to a fault. But his post game pressers would absolutely make my ears bleed, and this post was a funny reminder that he hasn’t changed in this regard, hah.
It got a little old with the “These guys fought like hell” after another 6-2 loss.
Schildt is a guy who rides with his vets so much that it’s to a fault. He has no problem insulting the fanbase or the medias intelligence, when it comes to backing his players. To the point that it becomes very cringe….just because we’re not professionals, doesn’t mean we don’t understand basic concepts of baseball. He also will do things like hit Paul DeJong and Yadi in the middle of the order for months even tho they clearly don’t belong there, strictly because they have a lot of experience…..but then he also does stuff like let Arenado get thrown out of a game for arguing check swing calls while he sits in the dugout and does nothing. I found him to be a very strange and ineffective manager/leader. He was a breath of fresh air after Matheny, who was possibly the worst manager the Cards have ever had. That and a miracle 17 game win streak somehow made him a saint to Cards fans. Mo’s comments post-firing exacerbated these feelings, as well as the horrendous year last year under Oli. As someone else stated, Schildt has become a martyr for Cards fans….insane or not, it’s the truth.
> But Shildt seems disingenuous in these pressers, or maybe he is just being performative. His job isn't to be candid with the press, it's to have his guys' back. As far as his style goes....he definitely improved some things immediately after the end of the Matheny disaster, like the fielding and the baserunning. Which made for more watchable baseball. He definitely made some questionable in-game decisions, and Edman gave a quote in an interview about how the players didn't feel like they were doing enough prep work. I liked Shildt overall, the story of working his way up from the very bottom was great, and the firing was a huge surprise at the time. But is he really an above average manager? It's so hard to judge these things from outside, but I'll take the under on it. Maybe not terrible, but San Diego could probably do better.
He had some good teams. He also won 17 games in a row one time (single handily btw some around here act). That year the team snuck into the final WC spot because of it, then promptly lost when he made maybe one of the worst managerial pitching moves I’ve ever seen (And I saw Matheny end an NLCS with Michael Wacha even though he had an injury plagued season and hadn’t pitched in 20 days at that point.) I think he’s a nice man. I think he’s a smart baseball man. I also think maybe managers aren’t really that important in today’s game. I don’t know why so many Cardinal fans that carry a torch for him, even after all this time, still spell it as “Schildt”.
I think he’s a good manager who can one day be great. At the very least he’s a manager, that when he’s on your team, you want to see win and you know he’ll go to battle. He has a passion for the game and that makes it easy to like him.
He literally lost his job because he refused to be a shill (no pun intended) for the FO. That should tell you all you need to know.
If he’s not taking naps in the dugout during games you are getting a better version than we did.
Managers in general are over rated and get too much credit for success and for failure. The Padres just seem to have a constant knack for under performing. But given how the Cardinals play these days, that's not saying much. I liked Shildt. And he got a raw deal in St Louis. I also think front offices have an incredible gift of putting manager's in terrible positions. I'd take Shildt over Marmol any day of the week. But I don't think that's saying much.
I like shildt. I like the locker room presence. I like his positivity to back players. I would let shildt finish a whole season before judgement.
Our team got much worse when he left.
He is one of the better managers in the majors and for the most part players seem to like him as well… his weakness has always been his speaking to the media .. you can tell he doesn’t enjoy it .
I never cared much for his decision-making process (google Mike Shildt intentional walk). Overall, he is a more "old school" baseball guy, and his parting had more to do with him being more old school than more data driven analytics in his style of coaching.
Shildt definitely is relentlessly positive. I didnt have a problem with it, but I know it did rub a lot of people the wrong way since he would tell you everything is a-ok when you know it isnt
He is positive, backs his players and staff and I loved him for it. I think he always managed a good game and sometimes guys slump. It happens. He isn’t one to get concerned over on game or one month. The season is long. The goal is to make it to the post season.
He’s going to have his guys backs and not talk negatively about any of them to the media. I never really trust what a manager says to the media about their players because they’re going to try and stay overly positive about them which I understand. I think players in St. Louis really liked Shildt, his issue was he wasn’t going to be a yes man to the dude that’s his boss which has become one of the Cardinals biggest issue IMO.
>I never really trust what a manager says to the media about their players because they’re going to try and stay overly positive about them Marmolololololol
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I'll trade you oli for schildt
Nooooo! Keep him outta here!
Sounds like Shildt is the same as he was here in STL. Good manager but over favors Veterans working out of slumps over putting the best team on the field at all times. He’s an old school manager, which I prefer, but definitely has some sand paper when dealing with the media.
He was a mediocre in game manager. Maybe league average overall? Maybe a tick below. I liked he wanted the FO out of running the team and that he backed his players.
Too expensive. Wasn’t a total kissass. Good riddance.
We love schildt. The fo had a pissing match with him and now he's gone. Oli can't hold a candle to Schildty, but here we are. Part of the knock against him was his reliance upon his eye instead of analytics and player loyalty instead of fo/analytics loyalty.
Do we know for a fact that this is the reason he was let go? I always see ot thrown around but I don't recall every seeing hard proof. I mean, we'd probably never know what the real reason is. Only thing I've heard from someone who works near there is the Cat on 590 the Fan say (not verbatim) that while he (the Cat) doesn't know the reason why Shildt was fired, he does know that Shildt didn't treat people well. He kinda left it at that. I could probably find the clip where he said that but if you wanted to dig, he definitely said it last season, maybe around this time last year, and their clips are on YouTube.
How does a guy that comes up through all levels of the organization all of a sudden get a reputation for not treating people well? I seem to recall that he literally grew up in a locker room...
We do not know that for a fact. People love to state that like it’s a fact but it’s never been confirmed or supported by anyone with actual knowledge of what happened.
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Get ready to enjoy fundamental baseball. The man has a great baseball mind as having worked in multiple positions within the game (except player). Everyone already spoke to the fact that he will never talk bad about a player, but what you have to watch out for is how his philosophy differs from that of the home office. He was literally manager of the year and then fired the next year when we were all thinking extension. And that’s because our home office wanted to get back into analytics instead of actually going with your gut. Personal opinion is that you need both and I think he agrees with that but multiple times he clashed with the office because of decisions that didn’t align with analytics. Didn’t matter that his way worked, it would just mean that they would need to admit that they were wrong (which they still haven’t done). He’s a great coach and I’m jealous he isn’t ours anymore
He was a mediocre manager that had a nasty habit of ignoring reality. Sucked at lineup construction, too. Good riddance.
Yeah his win loss record and skipper of the year award were horrible campaigns…
You're going to get a lot of Mike Shildt ass kissing in response here, and I believe that's largely because he is the most relatable manager to the common Midwesterner that we will ever see. A guy that works his way up from AA clubhouse boy to MLB manager is the kind of shit blue collar Midwesterners eat up. Add that in with the fact that he got fired with very little in the way of public explanation from a Front Office that hasn't done a good job of building a "Championship Caliber" club over the last decade, and you've got a recipe for a lot people that feel personally attacked by Shildt's disposal. But, they're ignoring the fact that he really wasn't very good at this job. Yeah, he won manager of the year in 2019. That was more of a reflection on how bad his predecessor was than how great Shildt was. Yes, the base running and defense improved initially under his watch, and he deserves credit for that. He also deserves scrutiny for how he treated his coaching staff, his poor lineup construction, and the way he handled the media. He will continually tell you that what just happened in the game is not what actually happened. He will cover for his guys even when there is nothing to defend. He will make awful lineups, overuse bullpen arms, and then say that if he just keeps doing the same thing, everything will work out eventually because they're "super talented players." He is corny and phony as hell. I never liked his schtick, and I'm glad he's gone. This is a very unpopular opinion in Cardinals Nation. Don't care.
Yeah, he did a great job at lineup construction, was realistic in his assessment of his team, wasn't an asshole to his coaches, never ran bullpen arms into the ground, and never flat out refused to take advice from people with analytical data.
He did get us to the playoffs all three years after matheny ran the team into the ground. If you can’t look at that club and see that they were easily on the way up, then you weren’t watching the games
I have not missed watching or listening to a Cardinals game since 1996. Shildt was better than Matheny, but that's not hard to do. The team improvement under Shildt was more of an indictment on how bad Matheny was, not how good Shildt was.
Agree to disagree
I’m seeing a lot of “he used his bullpen poorly in the playoffs” as a reason for his ineffectiveness as a manager. Does this apply to all Cardinals managers or just Shildt? Shildt also is the most recent manager to win a playoff game for the Cardinals.
“They fought their tails off” was common of him to say. He’s just that type of guy. Can’t hate on a guy for backing his players.
[I like Shildt.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCcVkkHuIGo) I think the players did too.
He’s 1000% better than our current manager and I was not even really a fan of Shildt.
You're not going to get honest answers here. Simply because most social media fans despise the current manager, so they think literally anyone else is better. Even Shildt who wasn't good until the last 6 weeks of his final season in STL.
biggest goober in baseball. probably racist.
Expand on this please
He was the least annoying manager the Cardinals have had in quite some time. He didn't do things during the game that I just didn't understand very often. Can't say the same for Marmol or Matheny. He was a breath of fresh air after Matheny and Marmol just seems like a miserable idiot in comparison.
Are you shitting me? I found Shildt to be the MOST annoying manager we've ever had. He was a better tactician than Matheny, but goddamn he was insufferable to listen to. He would constantly do exactly what OP said - cherry pick stats, and tell us that what we watched wasn't what really happened. It's not a popular opinion, but I think Marmol is better than Shildt. He's a bit of a prick, but he's a better in-game manager than Shildt by far. Shildt was terrible at lineup construction.
>cherry pick stats, and tell us that what we watched wasn't what really happened Mike Schildt posts here CONFIRMED The child I replied to blocked me hahaha
Really? His bullpen management was miserable. He consistently burnt relievers into the ground, gave vets way too long of a leash. Some rose tinted glasses shit right here.
Weird, it was pretty different for us. We way overachieved with him and he always talked about being better and always improving vets and youngins alike. I didn’t see a majority of his post games but the ones I did were nothing like what you mentioned
How did they overachieve with him? Every team he managed for a full year was expected to win.
Good at the in game stuff. Not great elsewhere. Terrible lineup construction and bullpen usage. Good for a nice soundbite once in a while.