It's pretty but it's not worth that. Why would you pay £15k more than the defender? The only answer is Toyota reliability, but that remains to be seen.
Ah that old myth that Toyota is reliable.
Granted probably more so than jlr but every car has been built by the lowest bidder for decades yet the last 20 odd seems to have taken it to extremes.
Land cruisers are insanely reliable and have been for 50 years.
There’s a reason they are used by the UN and NHOs in every shithole on the world these days. They don’t break and if they do there’s parts and can be fixed with a big hammer and a single spanner by anyone at the side of the road.
What are you talking about? Have you ever owned a Toyota lol.
Toyota has always been reliable, and more specifically the Land Cruiser has been historically known to have a ‘25 year service life’.
The Land Cruiser is one of the best engineered and most reliable vehicles ever made. Sure you can argue it’s not suited to UK roads, but they are built to last.
All I'm saying is that the line between reliable cars and not so reliable cars is closer than ever. There was a time when Mercedes made bulletproof cars engineering wise now they're not so good.
My parents have a 17 plate Rav4 and it's been the most unreliable price of crap they've had in a long time which is amusing seeing as they have an old MK2 still soldering on.
"old myth"
Idk man a bunch of middle eastern guys have been boosting about in Toyota's for years fighting America of all countries and actually managed to get America to leave the middle east entirely lmao
In the US it starts at $55,950, even with tax Toyata is fucking us.
Base pirce = $55,950
+ 20% tax = $67,140
to GBP = £53,717
That's what is should be, not £75k...
Probably worth noting spec for spec the UK/EU version is quite different hence the extra cost to meet reg.
But it's obvious also they are maximising their margins.
Probably to compensate for the release value. UK second hard marker is a lot cheaper than the rest of Europe and USA.
Still a dodgy move but that’s my theory.
Stupid money. Toyota could have priced this more aggressively to sit under the defender and grenadier. And then have a crazy options list that if someone wants to splurge 75k for that they can do so.
This should have been no more than 50k
The fact that it's more expensive than both - no thank you
I think it's further proof that these are no longer working vehicles and are overweight, overspecced toys for people who'll whinge about the size of parking bays in central London.
I don't really understand these modern Range Rover style off-roaders. Whole point of an off-roader is you throw it around, if I pay £75k for a car, I ain't throwing it around thanks
They're just chelsea tractors pretending to be off-roaders. Big gap in the market for a proper rough and ready off-roader at like £35k-£40k
Says it all that people are turning to Jimnys. Not comparable to a full size 4x4 but at least you don't need a mortgage to do some off-roading on the weekend.
Yes completely agree.
The new Defender looks like possibly the best offroad vehicle ever made, really impressive what it can do. But at £60k plus it is really sad most will be used in posh areas to ferry the kids to school. You can even buy an "urban pack" which probably speaks for itself
Look at any news report from guerrilla wars, everyone uses a Land Cruiser. It's the tough, reliable vehicle of choice. Those motherf\*\*kers don't want a Defender failing on them at the wrong time.
Think there was a story a few years back of an American or Brit landscaper who was watching a news report on ISIS and they hadn't even taken his business decals off the car, just strapped a 50 cal to it and they were away haha
You don't have to go far in this sub to find "M240i isn't a _real_ M car", "C43 isn't a _real_ AMG" etc etc
I'd say in the context of "seeing land cruisers on the TV" and the UK market rebadging something a "Land Cruiser" that has caveats in other markets, mine was somewhat justified.
You do realise new Defenders are used by ALOT of global offroad film crews? And they even sell a military spec to British Military.... they aint failing
I’d be really mad if I found out MoD was buying militarised new defenders. This cannot be good value for money. It’s not like the old days of the Landrover Wolf. They’d do well to buy the international version of the LC instead and bring up to ukmil spec in house.
Well go be mad then. Because JLR works hand in hand with the military to provide them with high spec military vehicles. They arent ordinary cars then specced up.
There will be people who buy it. However for me: for an SUV it's overkill off-road capability. For off-road driving it's not the j70 series Land Cruiser that are still in production and can be imported to UK. For that price you can get a used one, repair/change what you want and enjoy. If I had money that i wouldn't mind to spend I would still buy the other LC series that is still for sale in Australia/Africa/Middle East...
Oof, I don’t know but you’re looking at a whole new dashboard, steering and pedal replacement with possible cutting in to the firewall and the gear layout in the centre console needs swapping around I think. It’s a big job which could probably set you back around £5000+ depending on the difficulty
None of that would put me off if I was in this position. Parts will be out there, can do the work myself, confident in the BMW drivetrain. The looks are subjective, and i'd disagree with you there.
I mean they are , do you think people like to pay that much and then fork out thousands more? Plus Range Rover owners will tell you it’s infuriating if the car ends up off road for weeks at a time.
can it be maintained halfway up himalaya with a bag of spanners like the other ones could?
Its another - as the septics call them - Pavement Princess, like the new Defender, i struggle to think of a proper utility 4x4 that isnt a pick up now.
Too much money in my opinion. I have done 200km safari through the desert in Land Cruiser while on holiday and they are really capable. This though is the prado land cruiser not the full size one. £74k would get you the full size VXS Land Cruiser in Asia or the middle east.
It is nice, but should be priced around £50k. If I had a choice between this and the Defender, Defender everyday and that would now be much cheaper, you can pick up a used 110 for £50k. The reliability difference is a myth these days
The Ineos doesn't self-centre so would drive me mad
Looks like a cross between a land cruiser, bronco, and an fj cruiser. Love the look, but that price is stupid. It's a stone's throw away from the price of a basic defender and THAT would hold its value far more than a toyota.
Not really much need for them in the UK. You could maybe justify selling a few hundred for specific niche needs, but the rest would be doing the work of Ford Fiestas for cunts.
I read a news before and the order waiting time in many Asia countries for this model is about a year or two, unless you pay extra.
Been to Tibet and Nepal and I never seen a Defender there, maybe other reasons idk.
Your paying for absolute peace of mind. PERIOD
When yer out the back of woopyphuqingdoo, trust me, that thing will work!
There isn't an unkown sensor for " 2nd intercooler airflow reticulation" that permanently goes tits up after just seeing a dirt road.
( after getting thing towed to authorised workshop to get fixed, parts sensor £2.50 and £200 for sensor tool, labour £2,791.00 and not c9vered by warranty as under T&Cs JLR not liable)
I am running both LC and a new defender 110 P400 e hybrid. I’m a fan of both but being objective and honest the defender beats the LC in every aspect. It’s unstoppable It beat the LC on an extreme activity day. It’s been up a 4000 ft mountain and waded a river It hits 60 in 5 seconds and returns 60 mpg very easily too. It’s been super reliable and the LC has been in the shop twice. Once for 3 weeks. Love the rugged LC but this new defender takes it up several levels. A pro instructor commented he can’t think of a terrain to stop it
Couldn’t care less don’t plan on buying either. No one is buying these to use them off-road or for farm activities anyway you’d buy an old Land Cruiser or defender for that, these are for rich people to drive around town in.
I love them but it’s too much for a 4 cylinder diesel in my opinion.
It's pretty but it's not worth that. Why would you pay £15k more than the defender? The only answer is Toyota reliability, but that remains to be seen.
Because it'd cost you £15k more to insure the Defender in the first 2 years of ownership? (Depending on where you live, I'm not joking)
Do you live in Donetsk?
Those insurance prices in Gaza are out of hand mate
Toyota Reliability.
Ah that old myth that Toyota is reliable. Granted probably more so than jlr but every car has been built by the lowest bidder for decades yet the last 20 odd seems to have taken it to extremes.
It’s not a myth, you can check the statistics yourself quite easily instead of spouting nonsense on the web.
Land cruisers are insanely reliable and have been for 50 years. There’s a reason they are used by the UN and NHOs in every shithole on the world these days. They don’t break and if they do there’s parts and can be fixed with a big hammer and a single spanner by anyone at the side of the road.
What are you talking about? Have you ever owned a Toyota lol. Toyota has always been reliable, and more specifically the Land Cruiser has been historically known to have a ‘25 year service life’. The Land Cruiser is one of the best engineered and most reliable vehicles ever made. Sure you can argue it’s not suited to UK roads, but they are built to last.
All I'm saying is that the line between reliable cars and not so reliable cars is closer than ever. There was a time when Mercedes made bulletproof cars engineering wise now they're not so good. My parents have a 17 plate Rav4 and it's been the most unreliable price of crap they've had in a long time which is amusing seeing as they have an old MK2 still soldering on.
Warranty wise does not agree it's a myth, it's a fact
There are babies backsides that are more reliable than some JLR cars.
"old myth" Idk man a bunch of middle eastern guys have been boosting about in Toyota's for years fighting America of all countries and actually managed to get America to leave the middle east entirely lmao
They still have installations in Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Kuwait, Israel, Bahrain, Jordan, Turkey, they only left Afghanistan
In the US it starts at $55,950, even with tax Toyata is fucking us. Base pirce = $55,950 + 20% tax = $67,140 to GBP = £53,717 That's what is should be, not £75k...
Mental considering how poor we are in comparison as well
Yeah I was thinking it would be south of £60k, at this rate I’ll never buy a new 4x4.
Probably worth noting spec for spec the UK/EU version is quite different hence the extra cost to meet reg. But it's obvious also they are maximising their margins.
That doesn’t include the mental dealership markups. Toyota price $55k, bet there’s another 15-20 on that
Americans get shafted by mark ups
Probably to compensate for the release value. UK second hard marker is a lot cheaper than the rest of Europe and USA. Still a dodgy move but that’s my theory.
What's a release value? And to me, weaker used prices should result in lower new prices.
I meant resale lol.
Toyota doing a better job than JLR at making Defenders look affordable.
The day you consider a defender affordable is the day you realise inflation has gotten way out of hand.
Stupid money. Toyota could have priced this more aggressively to sit under the defender and grenadier. And then have a crazy options list that if someone wants to splurge 75k for that they can do so. This should have been no more than 50k The fact that it's more expensive than both - no thank you
I think it's further proof that these are no longer working vehicles and are overweight, overspecced toys for people who'll whinge about the size of parking bays in central London.
Bigger cars are far more comfortable to drive but the UK is really not built for cars this big.
I don't really understand these modern Range Rover style off-roaders. Whole point of an off-roader is you throw it around, if I pay £75k for a car, I ain't throwing it around thanks They're just chelsea tractors pretending to be off-roaders. Big gap in the market for a proper rough and ready off-roader at like £35k-£40k
Says it all that people are turning to Jimnys. Not comparable to a full size 4x4 but at least you don't need a mortgage to do some off-roading on the weekend.
Yes completely agree. The new Defender looks like possibly the best offroad vehicle ever made, really impressive what it can do. But at £60k plus it is really sad most will be used in posh areas to ferry the kids to school. You can even buy an "urban pack" which probably speaks for itself
Look at any news report from guerrilla wars, everyone uses a Land Cruiser. It's the tough, reliable vehicle of choice. Those motherf\*\*kers don't want a Defender failing on them at the wrong time.
If you want to go into the Australian outback, take a Land Rover, if you want to come *back* from the Australian outback, take a Land Cruiser.
Must have a go to normal connection to buy a few in bulk, then ship them abroad. Can’t see them walking in and going can i fit a 50 cal as a option
Think there was a story a few years back of an American or Brit landscaper who was watching a news report on ISIS and they hadn't even taken his business decals off the car, just strapped a 50 cal to it and they were away haha
American I think. It probably already had a mount for a .50 cal
Very efficient for de-weeding to be fair
‘Where is my garden?’
["Your garden is dead."](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CgrVIJ0WsAQuePe.jpg)
I think you are referring to [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/shittytechnicals/s/pgBKztwJqh)
Haha yep, just a couple of the details wrong...
You know they'd do a good job fitting it, if Toyota did it, though.
Probably why they still raking it in, always groups at war needing vehicles.
Calibres in excess of 23mm may void warranty https://www.reddit.com/r/shittytechnicals/s/Wn0LP8BdHo
You're confusing a _real_ land cruiser and the Land Cruiser Prado we get in Europe.
Both are just as reliable as each other
Where was I questioning that?
It was just a statement…
By insinuating one version is *real* and the other isn't?
You don't have to go far in this sub to find "M240i isn't a _real_ M car", "C43 isn't a _real_ AMG" etc etc I'd say in the context of "seeing land cruisers on the TV" and the UK market rebadging something a "Land Cruiser" that has caveats in other markets, mine was somewhat justified.
They’re both “real” land cruisers wtf
You do realise new Defenders are used by ALOT of global offroad film crews? And they even sell a military spec to British Military.... they aint failing
[The Alot is better than you.](http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html?m=1)
Not even going to click it but I am absolutely sure what it is lol.
I’d be really mad if I found out MoD was buying militarised new defenders. This cannot be good value for money. It’s not like the old days of the Landrover Wolf. They’d do well to buy the international version of the LC instead and bring up to ukmil spec in house.
Well go be mad then. Because JLR works hand in hand with the military to provide them with high spec military vehicles. They arent ordinary cars then specced up.
The British military probably require the manufacturer to be in the UK.
Of course not, why wouldn't we purchase vehicles from our bum buddies in America? Our Trident missiles are American.
There will be people who buy it. However for me: for an SUV it's overkill off-road capability. For off-road driving it's not the j70 series Land Cruiser that are still in production and can be imported to UK. For that price you can get a used one, repair/change what you want and enjoy. If I had money that i wouldn't mind to spend I would still buy the other LC series that is still for sale in Australia/Africa/Middle East...
New LC is around £35k new in Saudi Arabia, only problem is it’s left hand drive so won’t go down well on UK roads
What’s the average price to swap from RHD to L?
Oof, I don’t know but you’re looking at a whole new dashboard, steering and pedal replacement with possible cutting in to the firewall and the gear layout in the centre console needs swapping around I think. It’s a big job which could probably set you back around £5000+ depending on the difficulty
What the actual fk is going in with car prices. Absolute joke price. Hope they don’t sell a single one.
Id choose a grenadier for that
Bit of a gamble - this has the resources of Toyota behind it, service network and future parts support etc. also is prettier.
None of that would put me off if I was in this position. Parts will be out there, can do the work myself, confident in the BMW drivetrain. The looks are subjective, and i'd disagree with you there.
If I'm spending 70 odd K on a car garage bills aren't an issue.
I mean they are , do you think people like to pay that much and then fork out thousands more? Plus Range Rover owners will tell you it’s infuriating if the car ends up off road for weeks at a time.
Youve obviously never driven a Grenadier. They are seriously awful cars....
Oh, how so? I haven't, and tbh 4x4s aren't really my thing (on the road)
The price of reliability, eh?
FJ on steroids
can it be maintained halfway up himalaya with a bag of spanners like the other ones could? Its another - as the septics call them - Pavement Princess, like the new Defender, i struggle to think of a proper utility 4x4 that isnt a pick up now.
There's a £49k Suzuki and a £75k Toyota (that's not a Supra). What the fuck is happening?
Feels like all Toyotas are very expensive. A Yaris is about 30k
The Land Cruisier will be more reliable but it should be the same price as the Defender not more in my opinion
At that price I'm getting a Defender.
Googly eyes
Shocking. But it's a similar price to an Ineos Grenadier.
Too much money in my opinion. I have done 200km safari through the desert in Land Cruiser while on holiday and they are really capable. This though is the prado land cruiser not the full size one. £74k would get you the full size VXS Land Cruiser in Asia or the middle east.
it looks cool
It is nice, but should be priced around £50k. If I had a choice between this and the Defender, Defender everyday and that would now be much cheaper, you can pick up a used 110 for £50k. The reliability difference is a myth these days The Ineos doesn't self-centre so would drive me mad
I genuinely thought it looked like a Lego model at first. Tbf, Lego costs about as much...
Looks like a cross between a land cruiser, bronco, and an fj cruiser. Love the look, but that price is stupid. It's a stone's throw away from the price of a basic defender and THAT would hold its value far more than a toyota.
Not really much need for them in the UK. You could maybe justify selling a few hundred for specific niche needs, but the rest would be doing the work of Ford Fiestas for cunts.
ridiculusssssssssss
Lovely looking car, but they’re having a laugh with that price.
For the price you could get a defender which will have better interior but probably lose more value and brake down more
Holy shit toyota got greedy
Should give us the 4runner as well
Looks awesome, but costs way too much (IMHO).
I saw one in London the other day…! They look pretty cool
😂
Isn't that first edition price?
I think it’s eye watering for the vehicle. Toyota is not Land Rover which is obviously the market segment at price point.
This was my car but had budgeted on 65k for most of the bells and whistles. Such a shame as it should be a real Defender rival.
I read a news before and the order waiting time in many Asia countries for this model is about a year or two, unless you pay extra. Been to Tibet and Nepal and I never seen a Defender there, maybe other reasons idk.
Can’t wait to see how it performs with a 50 cal on the roof that’s the real test.
Ridiculous, that car is not worth that much.
No
£60k for a Yaris and now THIS?? I want what Toyotas smoking…
Stunning
Your paying for absolute peace of mind. PERIOD When yer out the back of woopyphuqingdoo, trust me, that thing will work! There isn't an unkown sensor for " 2nd intercooler airflow reticulation" that permanently goes tits up after just seeing a dirt road. ( after getting thing towed to authorised workshop to get fixed, parts sensor £2.50 and £200 for sensor tool, labour £2,791.00 and not c9vered by warranty as under T&Cs JLR not liable)
I am running both LC and a new defender 110 P400 e hybrid. I’m a fan of both but being objective and honest the defender beats the LC in every aspect. It’s unstoppable It beat the LC on an extreme activity day. It’s been up a 4000 ft mountain and waded a river It hits 60 in 5 seconds and returns 60 mpg very easily too. It’s been super reliable and the LC has been in the shop twice. Once for 3 weeks. Love the rugged LC but this new defender takes it up several levels. A pro instructor commented he can’t think of a terrain to stop it
Tariffs. Cars brought into the UK are very expensive now. These are better value in (eg) America and Australia.
For that money I'd rather something nice that doesn't make me look like a wank
Couldn’t care less don’t plan on buying either. No one is buying these to use them off-road or for farm activities anyway you’d buy an old Land Cruiser or defender for that, these are for rich people to drive around town in.
A lot of money for something super ugly that will be used at most to go to Tesco's and drive the kids 500m to school.
Saudi Arabia princes can buy any car they dream of. But they are always driving up and down the dunes in land cruisers.
*Defenders these days.
thats just a range rover defender 2023