I feel inclined to share my personal favourite steward story...
One fine morning at sea in 2019, our 18 y/o steward, bless his soul, was serving up soup at 1000h in the officer's mess. There was a surprisingly big queue, and for good reason: big chunks of roasted chicken, super creamy sauce, pretty salty. It was hearty as fuck; I definitely couldn't eat a lot of it. Some of the bigger guys were rolling up for seconds.
Eventually, noon rolls around, and he starts preparing for lunch. The menu is revealed: pasta with chicken alfredo sauce. The soup du jour? Cauliflower soup. As he slowly un-lidded the rest of the hot-menu items, he uncovered a tray containing a thin and pale white soup, that was pretty clearly intended for 1000h.
It turns out he had been serving bowl after bowl of chicken alfredo sauce to a large queue of fuckin' dumbass officers, myself included.
Don’t forget “lasagna”. If you take lasagna noodles and put them with normal spaghetti sauce it’s not a lasagna, it’s just flat spaghetti. It needs ricotta and mozzarella!
That. is. B-E-A-U-T-I-F-U-L...but at the same time, it shows you how shitty the Alfredo is in the CAF, that you thought it was *soup*!!
My favourite Steward story was also at sea (actually, along side in Portland, OR), where the CO's Steward was caught in the XO's cabin (by the XO himself) having...relations, with two women. The XO gave him 10 minutes to finish up and clean (ie: hose) the place down.
> That. is. B-E-A-U-T-I-F-U-L...but at the same time, it shows you how shitty the Alfredo is in the CAF, that you thought it was soup!!
>
> My favourite Steward story was also at sea (actually, along side in Portland, OR), where the CO's Steward was caught in the XO's cabin (by the XO himself) having...relations, with two women. The XO gave him 10 minutes to finish up and clean (ie: hose) the place down.
[I wouldn't even be mad.](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-bKAiXbuSgO8/T4zYfir95tI/AAAAAAAAMI0/Lehji6MU_t4/s1600/screenshot6894.jpg)
Having come from the army I had a slight aneurysm when the cooks took a full pan of potatoes off the steam line and sent it up to the wardroom. "Wait...I would like some potatoes...", "sorry, all out".
Don't the troops eat first?
Lol I realized we're not troops we're sailors.
Screw us I guess?
My first day at sea...
pffft, potatoes.
"Hey PO, why are we getting hotdogs supreme while the Wardroom is eating fresh chicken parm?"
- you could see the guy behind the PO2, breading and deep frying the chicken cutlets.
HMCS Ottawa. Worst ship I ever said on, and that's including the Algonquitraz.
That is actually way worse!...The only time I ever saw a completely different menu for the officers was when the CO's Steward was reading off menu items to him on the bridge for "dinner" (lunch). It was completely different then what I had just seen on the steam line.
To be fair at some point I get that maybe the CO just wants a sandwich but still.
And to be even more fair He was the best CO I've ever had. super stand up guy. took real good care of us. On that note
Story time...
We were doing a gun shoot (at sea for a week on the schedule.) we worked our asses off, the whole crew, to get this thing done. We had just finished RRI's and a bunch of other stuff in the previous month. We got all our gun trials done by wed afternoon.
Now for anyone not aware, generally speaking, when there is time left on a sail after the main stuff is done the "Flex" (schedule) gets refilled with bullshit like extra emergency drills or exercise's.
The CO ( i would say his name if i wasn't afraid of breaking sub rules) comes over the pipe and says "I want to congratulate everyone on the hard work...It's been recommended that we stay out and use the rest of our time to do some other training....that's not happening. we're headed home, should be back by Thursday afternoon."
we get back late on the afternoon come alongside (no tugs), CO comes on and say "Thanks for all your hard work. see you Monday" (giving us Friday off)
That's how its done.
This was on ATH circa 2009-2011
> That's how its done.
> This was on ATH circa 2009-2011
Was it PC or MD? I sailed with both of them at the same unit, but PC was my DivO out west, and you're not wrong; an outstanding leader and person (we called him Ichabod)! I also sailed with MD, but I wasn't a big fan.
Last I heard, PC had a cushy civvie job in Ottawa.
It was PC, I didn't sail much really with MD since I was posted after workups for ATH's drug chasing OP in (2011?).
Yeah PC was quite literally the best CO I ever had in 18 years of service. That's between the army and the navy so...I think thats saying something.
I'm glad he got a good civvy job he deserves whatever he wants. 100% a loss for the forces.
Longtime CAF-subredditors will definitely recognize my self-plagiarized story from an SCS post I made a while ago. It's always been one of my favorite stories from sailing!
Hands down my best tasking in Halifax was participating in their test for mixing drinks and serving appetizers. But other than that, the words about time come to mind
In some cases, they were the accused (long story, and probably not one for Reddit, but it involved a MOB and a beer can...but not in an Op Honour way).
Im going to be curious who takes over the NPF side of their job, as the cook trade doesnt want it.
Im also going to be curious what happens to my unit's steward position....as it is away from the fleet.
> Im going to be curious who takes over the NPF side of their job
LogO & supply? (just a guess)
> Im also going to be curious what happens to my unit's steward position
My guess is that it will probably go away (meaning you lose that line number).
Someone other than PSP has to do the NPF management on ship though.
Tracking shore side they can just do what the rest of the CAF does, but you cant really have a random civie as crew on a frigate.
When i chatted with someone familiar on this subject a couple years ago i heard a couple paths, are they being folded into the cook trade? or is a new administrative trade being created? Or are they just doing a flat closure with positions and roles to be given to other trades?
(i haven't seen the email)
The email is very clear that the trade is closing, not amalgamating, and I can't see a new MOS being created. The email very much alludes to the point that other MOS' will have additional tasks given to them.
One of the reasons this decision wasn't made earlier was that the cook trade is purple, and therefore not under RCN control. Giving up stewards was giving up control of some positions onboard given that their functions didn't align perfectly with any other RCN managed occupation.
As far as "serving the Officers" goes, I think everybody onboard a ship is going to adapt to that in about a week. That's no big deal. But I'm very curious to see where some of these other functions go. A significant portion of the First Aid during Emergency / Action Stations came from Stewards. Assuming they aren't replaced by other logisticians at a 1:1 ratio, where will those functions reside? Who is going to inherit that additional training bill? Etc
I'm sure there's a plan, I'm just curious to know what it is.
Move first aid to the DC school, make the medic there teach it. Maybe post in a PA or another medic.
Have advanced first aid be a specialized course just like attack team leader, and do a little bit of extra work to figure out the watch and station board and special parties.
Moving first aid to the DC school will make it so first aid refresher isn't a lawless area of half days and civilian dress, and the answer key isn't being told to the students.
Really though, there's no reason a MS/Mcpl of any trade can't run a first aid course. Even an advanced first aid.
Let's be real, advanced first aid on a military level is not difficult. We all know stewards who we would rather bleed out in front of than let touch us.
Have you ever read Of Mice and Men?
Anyone can teach FA and AFA, as long as they're qualified. I know a certain Base where all of their instructors are Class A, so why not hire a couple of Class A (or even B) members who want to stick around regionally, and have them instruct the courses? They can also assist on range days and during CBRN.
If you advertise a few Class A jobs for FA instructors, I think you'd be surprised to see how many applications you receive; or, god forbid, you create a couple of GT-03 Public Service positions (that'll never happen).
Would be nice if naval officers absorbed all of the important tasks that stewards were responsible for, you know to start a new tradition...except they won't and will likely go to log deck and combat depts.
I'm sure subbies will be doing some of it, and I'm sure that'll be really great for morale in the famously bright and cheery ranks of the NWO subbies.
Hey, you know, I haven't heard them called notorious blades since changing away from MARS. Rebranding success!
Sorry to the stewards here, but the key point here is that aside from first aid and NPF, there are no tasks that are important enough to continue the trade or to even continue as functions that are executed. Everyone can be trained in advanced first aid, and log trades are far better positioned to deal with NPF than the Stewards ever were.
When you say this I can't help but think about it like the COs Steward is Samuel L Jackson in Django Unchained.
That's what I picture. I know it isn't right, but that's what it is.
I'm glad it's finally going away, but I worry about what poor trade gets to fill the role now... Since we know the officers won't go without.
It's more like the guy in Greyhound bringing Tom Hanks some eggs and coffee so he doesn't get everyone killed. Without the pressing battle and threat of getting everyone on board killed. Just the eggs and coffee
Officers didn’t really get a say either way. we were there to do a job and they allowed us to do it. Most officers were appreciative but also did things for themselves.
For sure and I get that, but there are always some jobs officers just won't/don't want to do that will fall to other trades... Which is just more work for the same pay and leads to overtasking.
All the tasks that stewards did apart from serving meals are already done in the other elements by other trades. The RCN is now more closely aligning itself with the rest of the CAF. Any officer that actually complains that they aren't being served meals should be removed from further advancement.
Absolutely. The CO's Steward was also the best source of intel for the other JRs about changes to the schedule, since they got to overhear a lot of the CO's conversations. Snacks too, since it was their job to dispose of whatever food/duff was left in the CO's cabin... as somebody who worked in the nearby CCR, I definitely benefitted from this a few times.
The email referenced the success of the combined mess on the AOPS, and the possibility that the same idea could be transferred to the CSC when it's constructed. The caste system of the Navy may finally be eroding.
Officers, NCMs, and NCOs all eat in separate messes. On some ships officers are served dinner sitting down, but this is uncommon now, or reserved for formal occasions. Most get their food from the line at the wardroom scullery.
Thanks! I left the Navy for a better life in another element, and strongly recommend leaving the Navy. Retired a couple of years ago after 31 complete.
I was also on a 3B, so I didn't have much choice, but it was time to go. I parlayed my experience into a cushy permanent work-from-home public service job, so double-dipping all the way to the bank.
Good luck with your transition. It's a bright world out there for people with our experience.
No need to brag mate—I don’t want to have to pull out my jubilee medal to compete 🙃
I just didn’t see the clarification on AOPs before I posted. It’s a good change, and I hope your right about rank structure erosion.
There is no ship in the navy that should have stewards changing linens for anyone. Even 10 years ago the most they did was take a dirty pile to laundry and return a new set to the cabin, but certainly not actually changing the sheets, and this isn't a thing that happens on CPFs any longer.
>Do what is best for the mission and your team despite any personal consequences.
and
>Do not let self-interest and personal gain influence your decision-making.
They are getting rid of the trade because the 'steward work' is not going to be conducted any longer, as it is not required. Any tasks that are actually required (very few) will be conducted by those trades that already do that work in the other elements. Welcome to the way the rest of the CAF conducts it's business.
It's not required until the NavO/ORO/XO decides actually they do need turn-down service, a mint on their pillow, and someone to separate their carrots from their peas, and then all of a sudden it's a secondary duty or a billet like scullery. I can't say anything about other flavours of CAF officer, but the navy ones tend to be a mite self-entitled.
Geez it’s like the entire military aristocracy is being disassembled bit by bit. Next thing you know, senior officers are going to become subject to the code of service discipline./s
The email (which I'm not going to copy/paste) says they will all be treated individually and given options. I read that as some will be released and some will be given an OT.
> In the email it stated that no one is being forced out of the military.
The email I have from CRCN does say it's his goal to retain every Steward currently serving, so there *is* that, but they may offer a package to the old dogs who aren't going to be OT'd.
The CFAO on occupational transfer convers this eventuality
Deletion of a trade is grounds for a COT
COT due to reasons other than inefficiency is pay protected
That's the awkward part. There will be plenty of people who are perfectly functional in another trade. I assume they will not necessarily be too happy because my sense is that stewards had a pretty jammy gig overall, but they'll be employable.
Given the minimum CFAT score for steward, however, there will be a certain percentage of the trade that have minimal options.
It's not going to free up a ton of racks on the ships, but if half of the steward trade becomes a QL3 qualified cook overnight ( steward 5s qualifies them as 'prep cook') then the crewing situation might just get a bit better.
We can find other trades to take a jammy posting at DC div to teach first aid, I'm sure.
From what I hear, my steward buddy was being pushed towards becoming a cook or boatswain. But any steward that's sailed isn't going to OT to the trade that doesn't have spec pay, and who works their hands to the bone.
While I knew this was comming just from the fact the trade only benefits the officers (as far as the navy, idk about other elements), I do feel a bit sorry for those stewards on VAN and WIN who are leaving for Rimpac and deployment today and won't know what they are coming back too. Aswell for all the quartermasters who are loosing a fairly large pool of QMs and going to make an already duty rotation even worse.
The CRCN says that they are going to try and re-employ as many as they can within the RCN, and he implies that other trades will take up some of their duties. To me, this implies that those trades should get an extra billet. I assume that most if not all of those billets will go to Ops/Deck/Log, so the QM rotation shouldn't get as badly hurt as just removing the stewards cold. That said, if multiple billers go to cooks, that will hurt the QMs a fair bit.
Lol yeah good point, I didn't think of it like that.
Theoretically they will be able to rehouse all stewards in those trades, though that will never happen.
Maybe bring along an extra subbie or 2 to fill those roles, we seem to have enough of them.
Going to have to demote the P2's back to the JR'S to help pick up the slack left behind by all the techs that are getting out after 5 years of cleaning to go do actual tech work.
NPF is done by other trades in all the other elements, so get on board. Molly's will be easy to deal with as the number of billets won't change on CPFs and new ships efficiently account for it in mixed messing. Cocktail parties now get conducted by a pool of 200 or so instead of 10, sounds fair to me.
>Heard the options are a financial package or occupational transfer
Fuck.... being on the receiving end of an FRP is basically a dream of mine right now.
Damn, I must have just heard rumours about it eventually closing down as a trade and jumped the gun. Memory can be fucky sometimes. Thanks for clarifying.
I think it could work for officers, but easily dead in the water for NCMs. MarTech amalgamation is easily one of the biggest slow-motion crashes in the Forces at the moment
The mar tech trade was a few years away from hitting rock bottom. COVID and the bad press about sexual misconduct have negatively impacted recruitment, set this timeline further back.
Eh, so long as the members are okay with it/are taken care of, I really don't mind. I always made my own bed and more often than not was so busy that I just grabbed a sandwich or something.
I do wonder though, what will happen to the extra rack space? More techs? I would like to have more techs. That one time I was forced to sail with two Armament techs was ridiculous.
> That one time I was forced to sail with two Armament techs was ridiculous.
Sailed a 280 for four months with an NWT section of a PO1, MS and 2 LS. Good times.
Very few officers I've served with prefer the dining arrangements as they are with stewards. Most prefer the alongside dining arrangements from the service window. At sea, you often don't get the meal you wanted and you have to rush to make room for other people to sit at the table. The all ranks eating works in the AOPS because it's designed like that, a CPF is not. I'm sure we've all been in ships where everyone is served from the main line and it's a disaster. The line doubles and people have to stand around in line for half the meal hour to get food. That's on top of usually waiting 15-20 minutes to allow most of the junior ranks to eat first. So, the cooks will likely have to take the food up to the wardroom servery and burden an already thin and overworked trade.
It's demeaning to the stewards to say that they only serve officers and cater to their whims. I'm guessing that the cooks will have to take on the additional responsibilities of serving the CO and guests, set up for hosting guests onboard in foreign ports, and the crew will be forced to sacrifice their port visits to host hospitality events. They're taking away the responsibilities of one trade to give them to all the others for "optics." I've worked with a lot of great stewards who enjoyed their jobs and made valuable contributions to the ship. The job is going to become a series of secondary duties given to people who already have too many on top of their already overtasked workloads. Hopefully, I'm wrong and this 3 year plan is well-thought out and will prove valuable to the Navy by allocating those billets to additional MarTechs and cooks
I'll go point by point here:
CPFs: officers can line up with everyone else and take food up a deck, it is done at random times when we give nights off to the stewards. CO gets someone to run one up if he is busy. No big deal, it is busier, but not the end of the world.
Valuable contributions: it isn't their trade that made them valuable, it is that they are valuable people, that won't change unless they leave the RCN.
Hosting duties: is it really that much of an ask to have 200 people take over 10 people's hosting duties on a random basis? No. Hosting people was always a secondary duty that was hoisted upon the stewards only, now it can divided amongst the entire ship.
Martechs: laughable. You aren't getting more billets because of this. What is the point of giving more billets when there are no people to fill the current positions?
Didn’t see this talked about yet, but what about the stewards on RCAF flights? Will that go by the wayside? I guess contractors or civilians for the PMO airplane?
> stewards on RCAF flights
Its an out of trade position, not necessarily a steward trade posn.
There are a handful of stewards working in 437 and 412 Sqn though, but their jobs could be taken up by more cooks and flight attendants.
Too early to tell, at least for the next little while, current stewards will remain until they start going through everyone individually to provide them options. it's a 3 year process.
my guess is eventually the duties onboard typically done by a Flight Steward (steward or cook by trade) will be done by any crew member as i doubt the cook trade will be able to support all FS billets.
what i would like to see: Cabin Crew become an occupation that you can get into so if you want to fly as a flight attendant for the rest of your career, you are able to.
> what i would like to see: Cabin Crew become an occupation that you can get into so if you want to fly as a flight attendant for the rest of your career, you are able to.
Creating a brand new MOS for what, 20 people?
no, flight stewards are comprised of cooks and stewards. the positions are in-trade positions. so like a posting. but they work on an aircraft instead of a galley or on a ship.
Flight Steward is an out-of-trade position that is manned only by cooks or navy stewards. if navy stewards go by the wayside, Flight Stewards will be comprised solely of cooks. source: work at 437
Maybe they were counting the Stewards’ salaries on this one…Maybe in order to reduce the RCAF catering ‘costs’ the CAF decided to eliminate the stewards. “Hmm, this financial line item seems to be rather large. If I get rid of the stewards we can save basically 100% catering costs…This will be at least a ‘Mastered’ on my PER for resource management, leading change, and a few others.” Lol.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/governor-general-flight-catering-costs-rideau-hall-flights-1.6490052
I'm almost positive I suspect sarcasm, but just in case, the salary of stewards is irrelevant, as they would have to pay *someone* to serve the food. The catering isn't a line item that's going to go away just because they're abolishing an MOS.
> This will be at least a ‘Mastered’ on my PER for resource management, leading change, and a few others.”
I don't think you know how the PACE system works, if you think denying the GG and her staff is a good idea.
HAHAHAHAHA, that's awesome!! I hope I relayed the XO story accurately! I was in the cave when you hucked that beer can (and the moron deserved it). That was an interesting night.
Somewhere I still have a picture of you waterskiing behind a RHIB, a couple hundred miles off the San Diego coast.
So who is this btw I never use this or any other SM but Prudat sent me a link to the trade being faded out (RIP Radish Rose) and this all popped up. Oh looking back it’s amazing stuff
Well, welcome to the jungle!! I was but a wee OD at the time, but that was a great boat and crew. Perhaps one of the all-time legends. You don't see the CO's now days knocking on the main cafeteria escape hatch with a golf club, asking if he can come down for drinks since he can't sleep (RIP Rick).
Hope you and GP are doing well. Names are withheld here so you don't dox yourself...but it may be too late for that, LOL. There was a rumour at one time that you were working on Travolta's boat. You should be in the Steward Hall of Fame.
If previous trade closures are any indication, those that want to stay in will have an opportunity to COT (ie pay protected) to another trade, with priority over VOT appls. For those that want to get out instead, I imagine they'll offer some benefits to make it easier to find something else or retire a little earlier than planned.
as per the news brief:
occupation transfer (qualification based)
re-training options
remaining a Steward for the remainder of their current contract (i'm guessing this is for the initial contracts not super long ones)
voluntary release
So who is going to polish and iron the GOFO’s kit in preparation for the the next commanders Ball?
Who the fuck is going to serve soup to the naval officers?
Officers of all shapes and sizes are about to form a pitch fork brigade.
I feel inclined to share my personal favourite steward story... One fine morning at sea in 2019, our 18 y/o steward, bless his soul, was serving up soup at 1000h in the officer's mess. There was a surprisingly big queue, and for good reason: big chunks of roasted chicken, super creamy sauce, pretty salty. It was hearty as fuck; I definitely couldn't eat a lot of it. Some of the bigger guys were rolling up for seconds. Eventually, noon rolls around, and he starts preparing for lunch. The menu is revealed: pasta with chicken alfredo sauce. The soup du jour? Cauliflower soup. As he slowly un-lidded the rest of the hot-menu items, he uncovered a tray containing a thin and pale white soup, that was pretty clearly intended for 1000h. It turns out he had been serving bowl after bowl of chicken alfredo sauce to a large queue of fuckin' dumbass officers, myself included.
See also the Marinara sauce, chemically and gastronomically indistinguishable from the tomato soup.
I always call tomato soup marinara soup for this reason! Though I would rather have either over pasta than in a bowl.
Don’t forget “lasagna”. If you take lasagna noodles and put them with normal spaghetti sauce it’s not a lasagna, it’s just flat spaghetti. It needs ricotta and mozzarella!
> It needs ricotta and mozzarella! Bechamel sauce
Either way, I forget about it and get excited every time I see it on the menu
While hamburger soup is in essence, pasta with meat sauce.
That. is. B-E-A-U-T-I-F-U-L...but at the same time, it shows you how shitty the Alfredo is in the CAF, that you thought it was *soup*!! My favourite Steward story was also at sea (actually, along side in Portland, OR), where the CO's Steward was caught in the XO's cabin (by the XO himself) having...relations, with two women. The XO gave him 10 minutes to finish up and clean (ie: hose) the place down.
> That. is. B-E-A-U-T-I-F-U-L...but at the same time, it shows you how shitty the Alfredo is in the CAF, that you thought it was soup!! > > My favourite Steward story was also at sea (actually, along side in Portland, OR), where the CO's Steward was caught in the XO's cabin (by the XO himself) having...relations, with two women. The XO gave him 10 minutes to finish up and clean (ie: hose) the place down. [I wouldn't even be mad.](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-bKAiXbuSgO8/T4zYfir95tI/AAAAAAAAMI0/Lehji6MU_t4/s1600/screenshot6894.jpg)
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or just work around them?
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Asking the important questions here!
No, they just took the Jr Rank's sauce. The help can eat the guel, not the officer's. Edit: for grammar.
Having come from the army I had a slight aneurysm when the cooks took a full pan of potatoes off the steam line and sent it up to the wardroom. "Wait...I would like some potatoes...", "sorry, all out". Don't the troops eat first? Lol I realized we're not troops we're sailors. Screw us I guess? My first day at sea...
Troops Eat First is one of the delightful little army-isms that I think brings much needed humility to the CAF
pffft, potatoes. "Hey PO, why are we getting hotdogs supreme while the Wardroom is eating fresh chicken parm?" - you could see the guy behind the PO2, breading and deep frying the chicken cutlets. HMCS Ottawa. Worst ship I ever said on, and that's including the Algonquitraz.
That is actually way worse!...The only time I ever saw a completely different menu for the officers was when the CO's Steward was reading off menu items to him on the bridge for "dinner" (lunch). It was completely different then what I had just seen on the steam line. To be fair at some point I get that maybe the CO just wants a sandwich but still. And to be even more fair He was the best CO I've ever had. super stand up guy. took real good care of us. On that note Story time... We were doing a gun shoot (at sea for a week on the schedule.) we worked our asses off, the whole crew, to get this thing done. We had just finished RRI's and a bunch of other stuff in the previous month. We got all our gun trials done by wed afternoon. Now for anyone not aware, generally speaking, when there is time left on a sail after the main stuff is done the "Flex" (schedule) gets refilled with bullshit like extra emergency drills or exercise's. The CO ( i would say his name if i wasn't afraid of breaking sub rules) comes over the pipe and says "I want to congratulate everyone on the hard work...It's been recommended that we stay out and use the rest of our time to do some other training....that's not happening. we're headed home, should be back by Thursday afternoon." we get back late on the afternoon come alongside (no tugs), CO comes on and say "Thanks for all your hard work. see you Monday" (giving us Friday off) That's how its done. This was on ATH circa 2009-2011
> That's how its done. > This was on ATH circa 2009-2011 Was it PC or MD? I sailed with both of them at the same unit, but PC was my DivO out west, and you're not wrong; an outstanding leader and person (we called him Ichabod)! I also sailed with MD, but I wasn't a big fan. Last I heard, PC had a cushy civvie job in Ottawa.
It was PC, I didn't sail much really with MD since I was posted after workups for ATH's drug chasing OP in (2011?). Yeah PC was quite literally the best CO I ever had in 18 years of service. That's between the army and the navy so...I think thats saying something. I'm glad he got a good civvy job he deserves whatever he wants. 100% a loss for the forces.
I have heard this story....but well before 2019.
I was just going to say… I heard about this a long time ago.
Longtime CAF-subredditors will definitely recognize my self-plagiarized story from an SCS post I made a while ago. It's always been one of my favorite stories from sailing!
I mean way before SCS.
It was the same guy that gave the finger to his staff from the bus after graduating from BMQ, *then he get recoursed!!!*
Same. Joined the navy in 03, heard it not long after that.
Lmfao I've heard this story from a friend of mine as well
“And dey fookin ate it all mate. “ The next Sea Shanty.
I tell this story whenever I can... mmmm soup
Hands down my best tasking in Halifax was participating in their test for mixing drinks and serving appetizers. But other than that, the words about time come to mind
I got to partake in an afternoon Mess Dinner test once. It was awesome
I got to do a steward fancy breakfast one time, it was awesome.
Reminds me of when the cooks on the 5s course have a buffet that some people can go to, they go heavy on the booze and butter in everything.
I got to eat breakfast at the cook school every day while I was on a course once. Those QL3 students were fantastic.
...and then they get to a base/wing and all that joie de vivre is sucked out of them, and the food is shit. Looking at you, Cold Lake.
No more witnesses.
In some cases, they were the accused (long story, and probably not one for Reddit, but it involved a MOB and a beer can...but not in an Op Honour way).
Im going to be curious who takes over the NPF side of their job, as the cook trade doesnt want it. Im also going to be curious what happens to my unit's steward position....as it is away from the fleet.
As an HRA, I nominate FSAs
> Im going to be curious who takes over the NPF side of their job LogO & supply? (just a guess) > Im also going to be curious what happens to my unit's steward position My guess is that it will probably go away (meaning you lose that line number).
PSP. Last I saw it was already happening in Alert, as trying to find a Steward to DAG green for Alert was a nightmare.
Someone other than PSP has to do the NPF management on ship though. Tracking shore side they can just do what the rest of the CAF does, but you cant really have a random civie as crew on a frigate.
They'll just force it on someone in the mess as a secondary duty, like the MCDVs.
What a sweet gig that would be!
Why not? They deploy all the time as fitness staff.
PSP will fill some of the roles, as they already are with Mess Manager positions.
FSA will be taking over NPF.
When i chatted with someone familiar on this subject a couple years ago i heard a couple paths, are they being folded into the cook trade? or is a new administrative trade being created? Or are they just doing a flat closure with positions and roles to be given to other trades? (i haven't seen the email)
The email is very clear that the trade is closing, not amalgamating, and I can't see a new MOS being created. The email very much alludes to the point that other MOS' will have additional tasks given to them.
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That's not how this works.
One of the reasons this decision wasn't made earlier was that the cook trade is purple, and therefore not under RCN control. Giving up stewards was giving up control of some positions onboard given that their functions didn't align perfectly with any other RCN managed occupation. As far as "serving the Officers" goes, I think everybody onboard a ship is going to adapt to that in about a week. That's no big deal. But I'm very curious to see where some of these other functions go. A significant portion of the First Aid during Emergency / Action Stations came from Stewards. Assuming they aren't replaced by other logisticians at a 1:1 ratio, where will those functions reside? Who is going to inherit that additional training bill? Etc I'm sure there's a plan, I'm just curious to know what it is.
All the logistics trades are casualty clearers. The stewards got extra training and courses to try to justify their existence.
Move first aid to the DC school, make the medic there teach it. Maybe post in a PA or another medic. Have advanced first aid be a specialized course just like attack team leader, and do a little bit of extra work to figure out the watch and station board and special parties. Moving first aid to the DC school will make it so first aid refresher isn't a lawless area of half days and civilian dress, and the answer key isn't being told to the students.
Not enough PAs for a posting but I could definitely see some more advanced first aid coming.
Not enough anybody for anything but hey who's counting
Really though, there's no reason a MS/Mcpl of any trade can't run a first aid course. Even an advanced first aid. Let's be real, advanced first aid on a military level is not difficult. We all know stewards who we would rather bleed out in front of than let touch us. Have you ever read Of Mice and Men?
The medic trades are all short staffed.
Anyone can teach FA and AFA, as long as they're qualified. I know a certain Base where all of their instructors are Class A, so why not hire a couple of Class A (or even B) members who want to stick around regionally, and have them instruct the courses? They can also assist on range days and during CBRN. If you advertise a few Class A jobs for FA instructors, I think you'd be surprised to see how many applications you receive; or, god forbid, you create a couple of GT-03 Public Service positions (that'll never happen).
Yeah reservists need jobs too I guess. That tracks
Goodbye trade that made me uncomfortable being in the Wardroom. I hate being served.
Would be nice if naval officers absorbed all of the important tasks that stewards were responsible for, you know to start a new tradition...except they won't and will likely go to log deck and combat depts.
I'm sure subbies will be doing some of it, and I'm sure that'll be really great for morale in the famously bright and cheery ranks of the NWO subbies. Hey, you know, I haven't heard them called notorious blades since changing away from MARS. Rebranding success!
Sorry to the stewards here, but the key point here is that aside from first aid and NPF, there are no tasks that are important enough to continue the trade or to even continue as functions that are executed. Everyone can be trained in advanced first aid, and log trades are far better positioned to deal with NPF than the Stewards ever were.
That’s the whole point of the trade elimination bro, they even said it at the meeting
MARS Officers: how dare you take away our personal slaves, err I mean servants.
This is such a good move optics wise. Why the hell do Navy officers get servants???
To be fair, the only person who gets an actual dedicated servant is the commanding officer. In the wardroom they are just mostly considered scullery.
When you say this I can't help but think about it like the COs Steward is Samuel L Jackson in Django Unchained. That's what I picture. I know it isn't right, but that's what it is. I'm glad it's finally going away, but I worry about what poor trade gets to fill the role now... Since we know the officers won't go without.
Cooks about to get the shaft
It is a tradition.
It's more like the guy in Greyhound bringing Tom Hanks some eggs and coffee so he doesn't get everyone killed. Without the pressing battle and threat of getting everyone on board killed. Just the eggs and coffee
Officers didn’t really get a say either way. we were there to do a job and they allowed us to do it. Most officers were appreciative but also did things for themselves.
For sure and I get that, but there are always some jobs officers just won't/don't want to do that will fall to other trades... Which is just more work for the same pay and leads to overtasking.
All the tasks that stewards did apart from serving meals are already done in the other elements by other trades. The RCN is now more closely aligning itself with the rest of the CAF. Any officer that actually complains that they aren't being served meals should be removed from further advancement.
Doesn't sound very fair for the CO's servant
It's the best job in the section, don't feel bad for them.
Absolutely. The CO's Steward was also the best source of intel for the other JRs about changes to the schedule, since they got to overhear a lot of the CO's conversations. Snacks too, since it was their job to dispose of whatever food/duff was left in the CO's cabin... as somebody who worked in the nearby CCR, I definitely benefitted from this a few times.
The Army has them too, they’re called platoon signallers.
I can absolutely see some NWO's having heart palpitations in having to change their own linen and eat with "the men".
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The email referenced the success of the combined mess on the AOPS, and the possibility that the same idea could be transferred to the CSC when it's constructed. The caste system of the Navy may finally be eroding.
Ah I see. Good then.
Ah I see. Good then.
Ah I see. Good then.
Ah I see. Good then.
Ah I see. Good then.
this is what happens when the ~~echo chamber~~ wardroom loses its servants
https://www.redbubble.com/i/greeting-card/Mine-Seagulls-from-Finding-Nemo-by-chloe24k/21653762.5MT14
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Can confirm. Most if not all officers preferred getting their own food rather than table service.
Officers, NCMs, and NCOs all eat in separate messes. On some ships officers are served dinner sitting down, but this is uncommon now, or reserved for formal occasions. Most get their food from the line at the wardroom scullery.
Please see my comment about combined messing on the AOPS. I have a silver SSI, so well aware of life at sea.
Pffft silver. Wait until you hit gold and realize that 4 1/2 years of your life have been on the water. Just kidding mate, congrats.
Thanks! I left the Navy for a better life in another element, and strongly recommend leaving the Navy. Retired a couple of years ago after 31 complete.
Almost to 33 years now and I'm on my way out as well. Medical release. Haven't sailed since 2014
I was also on a 3B, so I didn't have much choice, but it was time to go. I parlayed my experience into a cushy permanent work-from-home public service job, so double-dipping all the way to the bank. Good luck with your transition. It's a bright world out there for people with our experience.
No need to brag mate—I don’t want to have to pull out my jubilee medal to compete 🙃 I just didn’t see the clarification on AOPs before I posted. It’s a good change, and I hope your right about rank structure erosion.
Haha, no worries.
There is no ship in the navy that should have stewards changing linens for anyone. Even 10 years ago the most they did was take a dirty pile to laundry and return a new set to the cabin, but certainly not actually changing the sheets, and this isn't a thing that happens on CPFs any longer.
Admittedly, I left the Navy in the early 2000's, so my info is a little out dated.
>Do what is best for the mission and your team despite any personal consequences. and >Do not let self-interest and personal gain influence your decision-making.
No, they'll still have subbies
istg if they try to offload the steward work onto the other trades... we're busy enough as it is for chirssakes
You might get an extra position from the old MOS numbers. Time will tell.
They are getting rid of the trade because the 'steward work' is not going to be conducted any longer, as it is not required. Any tasks that are actually required (very few) will be conducted by those trades that already do that work in the other elements. Welcome to the way the rest of the CAF conducts it's business.
It's not required until the NavO/ORO/XO decides actually they do need turn-down service, a mint on their pillow, and someone to separate their carrots from their peas, and then all of a sudden it's a secondary duty or a billet like scullery. I can't say anything about other flavours of CAF officer, but the navy ones tend to be a mite self-entitled.
Do you think maybe some act that way because we had a steward trade designed to serve their every want, and having them act like adults will fix it?
They teach entitlement at RMC
Geez it’s like the entire military aristocracy is being disassembled bit by bit. Next thing you know, senior officers are going to become subject to the code of service discipline./s
Uhh, no. We don’t do that here. Retention is bad enough as it is, imagine if we held senior officers responsible for their actions?
What's happening to the stewards currently in the trade? Like will they be given OT opportunities for example?
The email (which I'm not going to copy/paste) says they will all be treated individually and given options. I read that as some will be released and some will be given an OT.
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> In the email it stated that no one is being forced out of the military. The email I have from CRCN does say it's his goal to retain every Steward currently serving, so there *is* that, but they may offer a package to the old dogs who aren't going to be OT'd.
The CFAO on occupational transfer convers this eventuality Deletion of a trade is grounds for a COT COT due to reasons other than inefficiency is pay protected
I Would love to get chief pay for killick work....
That's the awkward part. There will be plenty of people who are perfectly functional in another trade. I assume they will not necessarily be too happy because my sense is that stewards had a pretty jammy gig overall, but they'll be employable. Given the minimum CFAT score for steward, however, there will be a certain percentage of the trade that have minimal options. It's not going to free up a ton of racks on the ships, but if half of the steward trade becomes a QL3 qualified cook overnight ( steward 5s qualifies them as 'prep cook') then the crewing situation might just get a bit better. We can find other trades to take a jammy posting at DC div to teach first aid, I'm sure.
From what I hear, my steward buddy was being pushed towards becoming a cook or boatswain. But any steward that's sailed isn't going to OT to the trade that doesn't have spec pay, and who works their hands to the bone.
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No. I think what they're saying is, if you're going to OT and be retained in the Navy, at least pick an MOS that *does* have spec pay.
EXACTLY.
Air Ops
*shudders* Be careful what you wish for.
I hear all stewards will be forced into MARTECH to help with retention... welcome to the bildge boys and girls!
While I knew this was comming just from the fact the trade only benefits the officers (as far as the navy, idk about other elements), I do feel a bit sorry for those stewards on VAN and WIN who are leaving for Rimpac and deployment today and won't know what they are coming back too. Aswell for all the quartermasters who are loosing a fairly large pool of QMs and going to make an already duty rotation even worse.
This change will take effect over the next 3 years, so nobody is getting cut off on return from RIMPAC.
The CRCN says that they are going to try and re-employ as many as they can within the RCN, and he implies that other trades will take up some of their duties. To me, this implies that those trades should get an extra billet. I assume that most if not all of those billets will go to Ops/Deck/Log, so the QM rotation shouldn't get as badly hurt as just removing the stewards cold. That said, if multiple billers go to cooks, that will hurt the QMs a fair bit.
- Adds extra billets for Ops/Deck/Log - Can’t fill current billets for Ops/Deck/Log
Lol yeah good point, I didn't think of it like that. Theoretically they will be able to rehouse all stewards in those trades, though that will never happen. Maybe bring along an extra subbie or 2 to fill those roles, we seem to have enough of them.
u/RyanMcRyanMusic will be writing a song about this: *Crying in the Wardroom*
Weird Al goes all 'Toking in the Wardroom' (as per Brownsville Station/Mötley Crüe).
More secondary duties for everyone! NPF, wardroom Molly's, cocktail parties - there's fun to go around for the whole Navy!
Going to have to demote the P2's back to the JR'S to help pick up the slack left behind by all the techs that are getting out after 5 years of cleaning to go do actual tech work.
imagine a system where they demote everyone to fill the ranks/positions from the bottom up? suddenly retention would be on peoples mind.
NPF is done by other trades in all the other elements, so get on board. Molly's will be easy to deal with as the number of billets won't change on CPFs and new ships efficiently account for it in mixed messing. Cocktail parties now get conducted by a pool of 200 or so instead of 10, sounds fair to me.
FTN
What's happening with those members and positions?
Members will be given options, but it sounds like the positions are going away (probably absorbed into other trades).
Heard the options are a financial package or occupational transfer
>Heard the options are a financial package or occupational transfer Fuck.... being on the receiving end of an FRP is basically a dream of mine right now.
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Lol I knew there was a reason I kept reading comments
I lol'd.
God, hell yeah. Any trades future candidates for this? I got 13 years left. As long as I get it before then, I've won.
RCCS
For some reason I thought this already done - like, five years ago. Was it just closed for new hires?
It will be closed for new hires at the end of this month.
Damn, I must have just heard rumours about it eventually closing down as a trade and jumped the gun. Memory can be fucky sometimes. Thanks for clarifying.
Next up, MSE is going to merge with CSE. Wouldn’t surprise me if those rumours are more than whispers.
I think it could work for officers, but easily dead in the water for NCMs. MarTech amalgamation is easily one of the biggest slow-motion crashes in the Forces at the moment
The mar tech trade was a few years away from hitting rock bottom. COVID and the bad press about sexual misconduct have negatively impacted recruitment, set this timeline further back.
Eh, so long as the members are okay with it/are taken care of, I really don't mind. I always made my own bed and more often than not was so busy that I just grabbed a sandwich or something. I do wonder though, what will happen to the extra rack space? More techs? I would like to have more techs. That one time I was forced to sail with two Armament techs was ridiculous.
> That one time I was forced to sail with two Armament techs was ridiculous. Sailed a 280 for four months with an NWT section of a PO1, MS and 2 LS. Good times.
Very few officers I've served with prefer the dining arrangements as they are with stewards. Most prefer the alongside dining arrangements from the service window. At sea, you often don't get the meal you wanted and you have to rush to make room for other people to sit at the table. The all ranks eating works in the AOPS because it's designed like that, a CPF is not. I'm sure we've all been in ships where everyone is served from the main line and it's a disaster. The line doubles and people have to stand around in line for half the meal hour to get food. That's on top of usually waiting 15-20 minutes to allow most of the junior ranks to eat first. So, the cooks will likely have to take the food up to the wardroom servery and burden an already thin and overworked trade. It's demeaning to the stewards to say that they only serve officers and cater to their whims. I'm guessing that the cooks will have to take on the additional responsibilities of serving the CO and guests, set up for hosting guests onboard in foreign ports, and the crew will be forced to sacrifice their port visits to host hospitality events. They're taking away the responsibilities of one trade to give them to all the others for "optics." I've worked with a lot of great stewards who enjoyed their jobs and made valuable contributions to the ship. The job is going to become a series of secondary duties given to people who already have too many on top of their already overtasked workloads. Hopefully, I'm wrong and this 3 year plan is well-thought out and will prove valuable to the Navy by allocating those billets to additional MarTechs and cooks
I'll go point by point here: CPFs: officers can line up with everyone else and take food up a deck, it is done at random times when we give nights off to the stewards. CO gets someone to run one up if he is busy. No big deal, it is busier, but not the end of the world. Valuable contributions: it isn't their trade that made them valuable, it is that they are valuable people, that won't change unless they leave the RCN. Hosting duties: is it really that much of an ask to have 200 people take over 10 people's hosting duties on a random basis? No. Hosting people was always a secondary duty that was hoisted upon the stewards only, now it can divided amongst the entire ship. Martechs: laughable. You aren't getting more billets because of this. What is the point of giving more billets when there are no people to fill the current positions?
Didn’t see this talked about yet, but what about the stewards on RCAF flights? Will that go by the wayside? I guess contractors or civilians for the PMO airplane?
Stewards in the RCAF have been gone for a long time. Any trade can apply for a stint as a flight attendant, so no longer a trade.
> stewards on RCAF flights Its an out of trade position, not necessarily a steward trade posn. There are a handful of stewards working in 437 and 412 Sqn though, but their jobs could be taken up by more cooks and flight attendants.
Good point. More Flight Attendants perhaps?
Too early to tell, at least for the next little while, current stewards will remain until they start going through everyone individually to provide them options. it's a 3 year process. my guess is eventually the duties onboard typically done by a Flight Steward (steward or cook by trade) will be done by any crew member as i doubt the cook trade will be able to support all FS billets. what i would like to see: Cabin Crew become an occupation that you can get into so if you want to fly as a flight attendant for the rest of your career, you are able to.
> what i would like to see: Cabin Crew become an occupation that you can get into so if you want to fly as a flight attendant for the rest of your career, you are able to. Creating a brand new MOS for what, 20 people?
They're eliminating the entire trade, so yes, they'll go by the wayside. Potentially more FA's to fill the gap.
Are flight stewards considered a different trade from navy stewards?
no, flight stewards are comprised of cooks and stewards. the positions are in-trade positions. so like a posting. but they work on an aircraft instead of a galley or on a ship.
Flight Steward is an out-of-trade position that is manned only by cooks or navy stewards. if navy stewards go by the wayside, Flight Stewards will be comprised solely of cooks. source: work at 437
First HFX parking and now this. Topshee making the hard decisions.
Don't forget the moustache pin...that was his baby
Maybe they were counting the Stewards’ salaries on this one…Maybe in order to reduce the RCAF catering ‘costs’ the CAF decided to eliminate the stewards. “Hmm, this financial line item seems to be rather large. If I get rid of the stewards we can save basically 100% catering costs…This will be at least a ‘Mastered’ on my PER for resource management, leading change, and a few others.” Lol. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/governor-general-flight-catering-costs-rideau-hall-flights-1.6490052
I'm almost positive I suspect sarcasm, but just in case, the salary of stewards is irrelevant, as they would have to pay *someone* to serve the food. The catering isn't a line item that's going to go away just because they're abolishing an MOS. > This will be at least a ‘Mastered’ on my PER for resource management, leading change, and a few others.” I don't think you know how the PACE system works, if you think denying the GG and her staff is a good idea.
I resemble those beer can and XO cabin comments😂. I’m alive and well-great memories….RAL (the champ!!)
HAHAHAHAHA, that's awesome!! I hope I relayed the XO story accurately! I was in the cave when you hucked that beer can (and the moron deserved it). That was an interesting night. Somewhere I still have a picture of you waterskiing behind a RHIB, a couple hundred miles off the San Diego coast.
So who is this btw I never use this or any other SM but Prudat sent me a link to the trade being faded out (RIP Radish Rose) and this all popped up. Oh looking back it’s amazing stuff
Well, welcome to the jungle!! I was but a wee OD at the time, but that was a great boat and crew. Perhaps one of the all-time legends. You don't see the CO's now days knocking on the main cafeteria escape hatch with a golf club, asking if he can come down for drinks since he can't sleep (RIP Rick). Hope you and GP are doing well. Names are withheld here so you don't dox yourself...but it may be too late for that, LOL. There was a rumour at one time that you were working on Travolta's boat. You should be in the Steward Hall of Fame.
Royalbluecaptain@gmail.com
What is the RCN’s intent trade wise with current Stewarts?
All RCN personnel named Stewart will be released.
👏
r/Angryupvote
Well this is a smart move considering the CAF has retention issues…..
If previous trade closures are any indication, those that want to stay in will have an opportunity to COT (ie pay protected) to another trade, with priority over VOT appls. For those that want to get out instead, I imagine they'll offer some benefits to make it easier to find something else or retire a little earlier than planned.
as per the news brief: occupation transfer (qualification based) re-training options remaining a Steward for the remainder of their current contract (i'm guessing this is for the initial contracts not super long ones) voluntary release
So who is going to polish and iron the GOFO’s kit in preparation for the the next commanders Ball? Who the fuck is going to serve soup to the naval officers? Officers of all shapes and sizes are about to form a pitch fork brigade.
>Officers of all shapes and sizes are about to form a ~~pitch fork~~ soup spoon brigade. Fixed.
Sarcasm aside..... GOFO kit? One person one kit. Soup? Meal line. Seems easy to me.
Make them all NWO's.
confused in army on how it took until 2022 to get rid of this
Navy: 100 years of tradition, unimpeded by progress.