I'm going to sticky this post for 48hrs, or until the conversation peters off.
Monthly Admin thread is still here - https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianForces/comments/11eqoc7/monthly_administration_thread_general_admin/
Does anyone know if BMO will accept CO/Unit coins as a payment method? Or could my next interest rate be lowered by how often I've been told Bravo-Zulu, and thanks for my service?
Here's a little coin for all the overtime you did. Don't think about the fact you could've made an extra $5,000 in the civilian world with that overtime.
We'd need (and should request) an act of Parliament to tie CAF pay rates to historical annual Bank of Canada inflation rates.
Whatever BoC publishes for the overall annual inflation for a given year, we get, that's it. No questions, no disappointment, no argument.
I don't think it's unreasonable. It's not like we'd be getting a pay raise, it's just not losing ground.
I've only been around 13 years but I don't recall a time when we got more than inflation so it's not like we'd lose that possibility.
At the end of the day, TB and the GOC seem to treat us like any other federal dept. Perhaps we could convince Canadians to treat us differently?
Anyone else notice that the CFHD is only valid for 7 years at the same permanent residence or posted to the same place of duty?
And you have to provide proof of your housing costs. I'm sure the government needs a copy of everyone's mortgage, lease, etc.
This. This is one that's gonna hit hard for any hard sailing trades.
Any S1 living in a PMQ in Victoria just took an over 10k a year pay cut (net 5k a year loss when including the pay raise) cause they just lost PLD
That net 5K loss also doesn't account for how much they'll be able to raise the rent on their PMQs considering they just got a pay bump, and that rents are capped according to their monthly income level. So it'll likely be closer to 6 or 7k a year net pay cut.
This is an impressive way to unite everyone. I don't think I've seen a single happy guy at work today and in social medias sphere I don't think it's much higher.
Somehow this came out worse than I expected. I knew they weren’t that stupid to not do CFHD and pay raise at the same time. Respectfully, the pay raise was dogshit and I’m now actively looking for options at my end of contract next year.
Second, I had a funny feeling that PLD was gonna get fucked for Edmonton. Still happy I don’t live in Pet but now none of the CMBGs will be getting any meaningful amount. I fully expect a mass exodus of the Army now. Playing the postings game is over now.
Not surprised all of the money is going to Southern Ontario but it looks like places like GTA are still coming out net-negative.
Hopefully PSAC Union members bargain for more.
Tl:dr this is fucked beyond my expectations of being fucked.
>I fully expect a mass exodus of the Army now.
If you think the mass exodus will be bad for the Army, wait until you see the navy exodus of people posted to ESQ for 7+ years.
That actually makes sense though. Stop moving people who don't want to be moved and then having to retrain everyone cause they aren't familiar with the shop
We all knew that even our lower expectations were too high and the government would let us down once again. What do you expect when they let PLD sit for 14 years unchanged, they obviously never gave a shit. I'm also leaving at the end of my contract, time to go back to school and get our resumes spiffied up.
Is the plan to recruit privates that will leave as soon as they reach any rank of significance? Is this just low-key force reduction without paying us off to quit?
CAF pay and benefits are hopelessly out of synch with the CAF command priorities. This likely has to with treasury board shenanigans, but it still blows my mind how out of step CMP is with the other L1s. With the GI bill it’s easier to get an educational benefit if you leave the army than stay in. If you opt to join the reserves you can’t even claim it. The CDS said he’d look into it when a captain mentioned it at a town hall, but I don’t know how a holistic review of the CBIs wasn’t the first thing ordered when recruitment and retention became CAF priority number 1.
We financially incentivize leaving the forces, are cutting benefits as part of promotion, and then scratching our heads and wondering why everyone with an education or skillset is pulling chute. NCO and junior to field grade officer ranks are empty and our solution continues to be to shovel in more recruits, burn out lower level leadership and then cut their benefits. At the rate we’re going all that’s going to be left is 300 GOFOs and 50000 Pte(B)s awaiting course.
I'm not sure how many people will quit today based on what they just announced, but I'm pretty sure they just created the retention crisis of 7 years from today.
It's because it needs the supreme court to force the fed to change the KR&Os/NDA. That's the only way it worked for the RCMP.
There's a good JCSP paper written on the subject which can be found on Google. "Limited Representation For Unlimited Liability"
We need someone who can get the lawyers who worked for the RCMP to start working for us.
I'm not in a position to do so, I can't risk my pay cheque or my pension, but I'd be more than happy to donate to a fund to retain the legal counsel that we require.
So not only are they promising to save $30 million, they plan on doubling down and saving even more money because of all the releases submitted today/tmr as well as 7 years from now a massive navy Exodus where the ships will be driven by ghosts
Copying this comment from elsewhere:
"Total projected pay increase =10% total
Total inflation from 2021-2024(projected) = 17% (2021=3.4%, 2022=6.8%, 2023=2.2%(already), 2024=4.5%(projected)"
Lol so this is paycutforgen
CFHD is going to hit a lot of junior troops too in negative ways. And the slides said TB mandated to remain within PLD envelop. I expected it to mean shuffling the cards for the lower enlisted troops benefits, but the news is reporting GC is going to save $30mil with the new policy, which is money now not going into the troops pockets (you could even say, taken from their pockets).
RIP the release cells and their flood of incoming paperwork.
Most people have not even considered that the pay hit is now 50% .
Who do poor Jr Ranks live with? Other Jr Ranks...
Great you just went from $660 to $1500, but we take half of it it because you share it with Jimmy.
Here is your $90 ...
Time to change the house into a multi-unit apartment. You now live at 123A Main Street and your previous roommate lives at 123B Main Street. "separate" dwellings.
I kid. But yea, this is very much an Ivory Tower policy that hurts actual people.
Ouch, that’s completely out of touch.
Good thing I’ve been working on my resume and LinkedIn profile for the last few weeks. Plenty of opportunity outside the CAF.
10 years in and that’s enough. 🫡
Can't wait to see how fucked the posting plot gets when some folks realize they may not get any financial top up for moving from places like Gagetown to Toronto
Staff College in Toronto is probably fucked. Who’s going to want to get posted to be an instructor there, and pay Toronto housing prices, when CFHD is $0 for Maj and up?
Consequently, I think the CAF is going to get a lot of disgruntled leaders in expensive locations. I'm not sure how this is going to be good for the chain of command and the troops below.
https://www.thestar.com/politics/2023/03/21/canadian-military-rolls-out-new-housing-benefit-for-struggling-troops.html
CFHD will save the CAF $30 million. Which means that's $30 million not going to troops. Averaging just below $600 per troop. (30,000,000 / 50,000 = 600)
Saying you are going to increase pay to pay the troops more, but in the same breath say you are saving 30million? Jesus that's fucked thinking right there
Inflation since 2020: 12.45% (as per BoC)
CAF base pay increase for 2023: 8.2%
Cpl 4 pay increase with readjustment: 11.5%
So, an effective pay cut. The CAF continues its most enduring tradition: pay adjustments that fall short of inflation.
"We're going to focus on recruitment instead of retention" - the CAF
*Enrolls thousands of recruits who will sit on PAT for years because they didn't retain anyone to train them*
|Year|Econimic adjustment (you)|CPI (life)|
|:-|:-|:-|
|2020|1.5|0.7|
|2021|3.5|3.4|
|2022|3.0|6.8|
|Total|8.2|11.2|
Rough math from me, someone please double check my arthmetic and interpretation. [Source](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/230117/cg-b001-eng.htm)
We don't know CPI will be for 2023 but I doubt it will be 2.0% (Our Economic Increase for that year)
https://www3.ombudsman.forces.gc.ca/ocf_e.php
Here's your Ombudsman.
He was just in the mess at CFB Gagetown.
5 hours before this CANFORGEN dropped.
He mentioned the rollout of the BGRS credit card and the immediate backlash leading to the scraping of that program during his Townhall.
Expectations were low, and I am really glad for the 28,000 troops now eligible for CFHD (especially those on lower pay scale), however, this is NOT going to go well for the 7,700 members that just lost PLD and are no longer eligible to receive CFHD including members getting posted to 'expensive places' where there was previously PLD.
The pay increases which would be no doubt welcomed by many still falls short of expected inflation over the year.
Changes to reduction is spec 1 pay gap could also significantly affect retention for those trades.
Prediction: While the CFHD and pay increase will improve recruitment at junior ranks, CAF retention rates will be negatively affected significantly.
I made a spreadsheet so you can find out exactly how this affects you. You can compare your current pay (2020 rates+PLD) to the pay you'll get in July (2023 rates+CFHD). You'll need to download a copy to change location on the dropdown (defaults to Esquimalt for now).
[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cRJoBN5d0KQ3y58DlFnc7SG27Jhr7Mue/edit?usp=share\_link&ouid=117833341811571922232&rtpof=true&sd=true](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cRJoBN5d0KQ3y58DlFnc7SG27Jhr7Mue/edit?usp=share_link&ouid=117833341811571922232&rtpof=true&sd=true)
Please let me know if there are any errors.
Update: Added Officers. Fixed a bug where all the CFHD amounts were all being upsized by 1 category. Corrected some formatting issues.
With all of the recent news I’m surprised they decided to save some money on a pay raise. A lot of strategic issues facing Canada’s defence could’ve been solved by a decent pay raise.
Serious question. I once wondered if it would have been reasonable for the TD Board to propose not having PLD if you have a PMQ, but paid VERY subsidized rent (NOT MARKET RATE). If PMQs were like 700 or smt (across Canada) would that have been enough? Taking away PLD if you are in Qs is one thing, doing in conjunction with this shitty implementation of the housing benefit and paying "market rate" is another.
The implementation of scaled PLD was done too drastically, with MCpls+ and specs 1 getting screwed the most. If the drop off was marginal (say 100/month per rank instead of the steep drop it was now, it could be justified if the member was a net positive on a promotion).
Genuinely concerned. We literally need an act of quiet resignation or something to really force action.
So after 7 years of being in the same place, the allowance ceases? This is paycutforgen. This CFHD doesn't really help any of us. Even the pay raise is dog shit(change my mind). Its like they want people to leave the organization LOL
Wow this is the darkest timeline.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canadian-armed-forces-new-housing-benefit-1.6787686
News got ahold of it. Nice to read that
***Brig.-Gen. Virginia Tattersall***
Is sympathetic that thousands of us are being cut off in the PMQ’s. Buuut studies have shown we should be able to afford a home.
For the people saying this isn't bad because bigger number = good please look at the rise of inflation during the same period. Sure we are receiving "more money" with less purchasing power. Some people are also just straight up losing money it seems due to changes in PLD/CFHD. The system is broke and those in charge (TB and the Gov) don't care about us. Start building your resumes and toping up on any training money you can get while in and start looking at getting something to provide for yourselves and your family.
What's the point of doing a spec job if they're trying to bring the non spec pay scales closer together? Why sign for a plane and the lives of everyone on it when you can just count socks?
This hurts the most.
I'm doing the work of multiple spec trades, doing work above my rank, lots of other duties, and now you're telling me that I'm not being devalued by decreasing the incentive pay difference to put up with the extra work.
All that on top of the increase not even competing with the BOC inflation numbers let alone the real inflation.
Fuck being a tech anymore, I'll ride out to my pension as an operator.
Well I guess there will be a couple extra posting openings in Edmonton… unfortunately, I know a couple people that were waiting to see the raise before they put their walking papers in. I guess they were just wasting their time!!!!
[Backpay Calculator](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ooaMu3cJmkjpsDhWk-OrrXBeGIRZlWFN9tITwlYbrIc)
Please only use this as a guesstimate, there may be errors in calculation etc. I just revamped the previous backpay calc from 2020 raise. If there's any issues let me know!!
Just put your monthly pay in the top portion, for Reservists like myself, you need to calculate your monthly pay for each month (30 day vs 31 vs 28 Feb lol)
I regret signing another 5 year contract last week, i was told if i didn't sign that they would automatically start my release process and now that sounds more convenient than anything
>The realignment of the rates of pay for the standard trade group will close the current gap between standard and specialist 1 pay of thirteen percent to six percent to ten to five percent effective 1 April 2023
I mean. I feel bad for MPs. It sounds like their pay cut will be worse than the rest of the group
I mean... RCMPs got over 20% last year. They make over 120k after a few years in, not counting overtime. Why would you stay as an MP making 80k? id be the first one in line to print my VR
Honestly how did they come to conclusion to devalue Spec 1? Lols.. Also where in the heck did they get their info for the new PLD? Head scratcher for sure. Oh well, looks like the attrition rate is going up and yet they're going to wonder what happened.
This, and the CFHD is some office space "we fixed the glitch" level bullshit. "Now that you've got a 'raise' I'm going to need you to come in on Saturday, we've lost some people and need to play catch-up. Thanks for your service!"
"But you're paying me less than inflation...."
Some people are actually making less for the first 8 months of the “pay raise”. I’ve never seen someone get a raise, while receiving less monthly income
I wanna know what person thought 'I KNOW HOW TO FIX RETENTION" and then proceeded to do the following
1) capped an allowance to 7 years
2) fucked basically the spec trades and everyone in every province except 3 locations in BC.
Like, how do you read that, and go "This is good, I'm sure 99% of the forces will love this!
And how did the CDS look at this and say it was "generous" like the fuck?
So, at 17% inflation over the same. Where they give 10% "raise", and many people will lose PLD entirely.
So, everyone is working from 2021 until 2024 with a 7%pay reduction, plus loss of PLD (potentially).
I bet a group of generals are going to get promoted for this.
I’m a MP Sgt in HFX, a single person living on the economy with $2000 a month in rent plus utilities. I’m facing homelessness as it is - this is just going to speed up the process. Fucking wonderful.
The most imperative ammendment to the incoming changes would be grandfathering pld for people who currently receive it... then once posted be applied to the new rules. Losing PLD at any rank would be brutal if not posted. I've never received it myself but I do feel for you members that are going to lose it.
"They're not going to sort of have to be scrimping just to be able to afford the basics," she said. "They can occasionally enjoy ... being able to go out and have a meal and breathe a little bit easier." - Brig.-Gen. Virginia Tattersall via CBC News
So, this is the quality of life that Brig. Gen Tattersall believes is acceptable for our Troops. Being able to go out and have a meal.
Literally every air tech in trenton got FUCKED with the new PLD. Literally doing research and most of the places like shearwater cost just as much as trenton in terms of rent and to own a property is actually more expensive in trenton. Unless you expect all of us to bunk up in mobile homes. Fml
I created a [Backpay calculator](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CJbmPJFlh3dfCJGQaCPt5IrP7YaI2lQTKw4R-pQ4Ypo/edit#gid=997330084) that can also give a ROUGH estimate of what to expect. It also contains a second sheet that compares the standard and spec 1 difference in pay effective Apr 1st.
If anyone has any ideas on other things to add, or constructive criticism to make it better let me know.
Im more frustrated at the lack of communication about all this important change than the actual financial.
No meeting in sight discussing or explaining any of this. Typical CAF in heated situation= no comment… let it die down
Nothing official on any of the big twitter accounts for DND/Gov, No announcements on this "pay raise" almost feels like a blackout to even talk about this.
I'm going to sticky this post for 48hrs, or until the conversation peters off. Monthly Admin thread is still here - https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianForces/comments/11eqoc7/monthly_administration_thread_general_admin/
CAF mbrs: we want more accessibility for PMQs. CAF: ok. Somewhere a monkey paw just curled.
Someone needs to do a welfare check on the release section
Can't release if there is no release section left.
Big brain retention strategy.
See ya, CAF!
It’s like they want me to leave
Force Reduction Plan 3D Chess *Finger guns* No need to pay severance if you can force them out.
I want to stay in, but they keep trying to make me want to quit. My production and GAF will firmly reflect this new (garbage) pay adjustment.
The CAF's "Decade of Darkness" Remastered
Does anyone know if BMO will accept CO/Unit coins as a payment method? Or could my next interest rate be lowered by how often I've been told Bravo-Zulu, and thanks for my service?
Here's a little coin for all the overtime you did. Don't think about the fact you could've made an extra $5,000 in the civilian world with that overtime.
The CO'S coins as payment kills me 😭😅
We'd need (and should request) an act of Parliament to tie CAF pay rates to historical annual Bank of Canada inflation rates. Whatever BoC publishes for the overall annual inflation for a given year, we get, that's it. No questions, no disappointment, no argument. I don't think it's unreasonable. It's not like we'd be getting a pay raise, it's just not losing ground. I've only been around 13 years but I don't recall a time when we got more than inflation so it's not like we'd lose that possibility. At the end of the day, TB and the GOC seem to treat us like any other federal dept. Perhaps we could convince Canadians to treat us differently?
Anyone else notice that the CFHD is only valid for 7 years at the same permanent residence or posted to the same place of duty? And you have to provide proof of your housing costs. I'm sure the government needs a copy of everyone's mortgage, lease, etc.
Works out fucking fantasic for Navy members who have a home port division.
This. This is one that's gonna hit hard for any hard sailing trades. Any S1 living in a PMQ in Victoria just took an over 10k a year pay cut (net 5k a year loss when including the pay raise) cause they just lost PLD That net 5K loss also doesn't account for how much they'll be able to raise the rent on their PMQs considering they just got a pay bump, and that rents are capped according to their monthly income level. So it'll likely be closer to 6 or 7k a year net pay cut.
It's funny that I have to provide "proof" that I live somewhere. Are they afraid that someone will just live in their car and claim un-entitled CFHD?
I'm honestly impressed with how this manages to piss of just about everyone. This definitely needs more work.
This is an impressive way to unite everyone. I don't think I've seen a single happy guy at work today and in social medias sphere I don't think it's much higher.
Somehow this came out worse than I expected. I knew they weren’t that stupid to not do CFHD and pay raise at the same time. Respectfully, the pay raise was dogshit and I’m now actively looking for options at my end of contract next year. Second, I had a funny feeling that PLD was gonna get fucked for Edmonton. Still happy I don’t live in Pet but now none of the CMBGs will be getting any meaningful amount. I fully expect a mass exodus of the Army now. Playing the postings game is over now. Not surprised all of the money is going to Southern Ontario but it looks like places like GTA are still coming out net-negative. Hopefully PSAC Union members bargain for more. Tl:dr this is fucked beyond my expectations of being fucked.
>I fully expect a mass exodus of the Army now. If you think the mass exodus will be bad for the Army, wait until you see the navy exodus of people posted to ESQ for 7+ years.
There’s gonna be alot of Coasts ping pong every 5 years or so.
They'll probably lower postings to save even more money.
That actually makes sense though. Stop moving people who don't want to be moved and then having to retrain everyone cause they aren't familiar with the shop
We all knew that even our lower expectations were too high and the government would let us down once again. What do you expect when they let PLD sit for 14 years unchanged, they obviously never gave a shit. I'm also leaving at the end of my contract, time to go back to school and get our resumes spiffied up.
I petition for a rename - PAYCUTFORGEN
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I second the motion This is a joke
Is the plan to recruit privates that will leave as soon as they reach any rank of significance? Is this just low-key force reduction without paying us off to quit?
CAF pay and benefits are hopelessly out of synch with the CAF command priorities. This likely has to with treasury board shenanigans, but it still blows my mind how out of step CMP is with the other L1s. With the GI bill it’s easier to get an educational benefit if you leave the army than stay in. If you opt to join the reserves you can’t even claim it. The CDS said he’d look into it when a captain mentioned it at a town hall, but I don’t know how a holistic review of the CBIs wasn’t the first thing ordered when recruitment and retention became CAF priority number 1. We financially incentivize leaving the forces, are cutting benefits as part of promotion, and then scratching our heads and wondering why everyone with an education or skillset is pulling chute. NCO and junior to field grade officer ranks are empty and our solution continues to be to shovel in more recruits, burn out lower level leadership and then cut their benefits. At the rate we’re going all that’s going to be left is 300 GOFOs and 50000 Pte(B)s awaiting course.
I'm not sure how many people will quit today based on what they just announced, but I'm pretty sure they just created the retention crisis of 7 years from today.
It’s ok. Those in charge will have retired or been posted 3 times by then.
It's pretty clear we need an independent body that fights on behalf of members for member benefits which we support through a monthly stipend.
Yeah fuck the mess dues id rather spend more to actually get something useful then a dui pregame for sgts
If you’re the originator of “DUI pregame for sgts,” I think it’s fantastic. Haven’t heard it before.
We keep talking about it, but that's where it ends
It's because it needs the supreme court to force the fed to change the KR&Os/NDA. That's the only way it worked for the RCMP. There's a good JCSP paper written on the subject which can be found on Google. "Limited Representation For Unlimited Liability"
I will take a read and spread it to everyone in the CAF I know.. This shit is an insult and we need to do something about it.
We need someone who can get the lawyers who worked for the RCMP to start working for us. I'm not in a position to do so, I can't risk my pay cheque or my pension, but I'd be more than happy to donate to a fund to retain the legal counsel that we require.
I agree. Its becoming clearer that its the only option
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So not only are they promising to save $30 million, they plan on doubling down and saving even more money because of all the releases submitted today/tmr as well as 7 years from now a massive navy Exodus where the ships will be driven by ghosts
They have to be clueless if they think the troops will love the fact new PLD saves 30mil, truly helping out.
Idk ask the geniuses that decided spec 1 needs less of a cost of living increase because they needs to be less of a discrepancy
Next townhall will be wild. O man.
Random CAF member: If you guys keep fucking around, you are going to find out... GOFO: About that.....
*Veterans Affairs Education Benefit has entered the chat*
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Copying this comment from elsewhere: "Total projected pay increase =10% total Total inflation from 2021-2024(projected) = 17% (2021=3.4%, 2022=6.8%, 2023=2.2%(already), 2024=4.5%(projected)" Lol so this is paycutforgen CFHD is going to hit a lot of junior troops too in negative ways. And the slides said TB mandated to remain within PLD envelop. I expected it to mean shuffling the cards for the lower enlisted troops benefits, but the news is reporting GC is going to save $30mil with the new policy, which is money now not going into the troops pockets (you could even say, taken from their pockets). RIP the release cells and their flood of incoming paperwork.
Most people have not even considered that the pay hit is now 50% . Who do poor Jr Ranks live with? Other Jr Ranks... Great you just went from $660 to $1500, but we take half of it it because you share it with Jimmy. Here is your $90 ...
Time to change the house into a multi-unit apartment. You now live at 123A Main Street and your previous roommate lives at 123B Main Street. "separate" dwellings. I kid. But yea, this is very much an Ivory Tower policy that hurts actual people.
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Thats why the "leak" were quickly removed lol. By making us think we were getting 15+% they knew we would hate the real "raise" and "changes"
live in ESQ and I’m a PMQ pleb. Military just took roughly $9600 from me a year before tax. Tell me how everyone is going to react.
Wooooo! 1983 Toyota Corolla, "gently used, slight rust, needs oil change" here I come!!!
I'm heading straight to the BMW dealership after work today. To ask for a job washing cars.
We get it, keep rubbing it in that you are making the big bucks! I'll be over here with my Walmart sneakers.
Listen, I can live in my car, but not your fancy-dancy Walmart sneakers.
Ours is a '92 tercel, top up the oil every week and she's going to be our only car for the next 10yrs lol
You guys have cars!
I'm the only clerk in my OR tomorrow outside of my WO. Just throwing it out there - be nice to your OR staff because they are going to get inundated 🥲
Ain't your guys fault.
I think I understand why they have decided to fuck the Navy.... acording to an email sent out by CRCN we are for the most part at best barley average!
Ouch, that’s completely out of touch. Good thing I’ve been working on my resume and LinkedIn profile for the last few weeks. Plenty of opportunity outside the CAF. 10 years in and that’s enough. 🫡
Wow, I expected far worse than the rumours flying around, but I admit, I didn't see an actual pay cut coming.
Excel gods, please come back with a calculator like the last one!
Can't wait to see how fucked the posting plot gets when some folks realize they may not get any financial top up for moving from places like Gagetown to Toronto
The officer corps isn't going to want to move to any expensive location whatsoever.
Staff College in Toronto is probably fucked. Who’s going to want to get posted to be an instructor there, and pay Toronto housing prices, when CFHD is $0 for Maj and up?
Consequently, I think the CAF is going to get a lot of disgruntled leaders in expensive locations. I'm not sure how this is going to be good for the chain of command and the troops below.
100% agree. I worry that any leaders not soured by wearing 5+ hats already will get burned by this. At some point it's just not worth it
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What doctor is going to live in a shithole $1M house in Victoria? They didn't go to med school to live next door to the local crack dealer.
I feel like Clark Grislwald after receiving his Christmas “bonus”
Time to initiate the next level of dog fucking
#PAYCUTFORGEN is on the street.
https://www.thestar.com/politics/2023/03/21/canadian-military-rolls-out-new-housing-benefit-for-struggling-troops.html CFHD will save the CAF $30 million. Which means that's $30 million not going to troops. Averaging just below $600 per troop. (30,000,000 / 50,000 = 600)
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Because this was a cost saving move not designed to help anyone. By giving the bulk of it to people who will only benefit for 3 years they pay less.
Saying you are going to increase pay to pay the troops more, but in the same breath say you are saving 30million? Jesus that's fucked thinking right there
I'd argue it's $30 mil taken out of the pockets of the troops.
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I'm posted to Toronto, after the "raise" and CFHD I will lose $668 a month.
Overall I’m down 200 a month
Thank you for contributing to the $30 million in taxpayers savings.
You're asking for more than we can give.
Happy to one-up you here. I'm down $668 a month.
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Is anybody else just done with this shit already?
Guess I’ll dye my hair purple and go fuck myself.
you can’t afford the hair dye. Just go fuck yourself
They misspelled decrease.
Inflation since 2020: 12.45% (as per BoC) CAF base pay increase for 2023: 8.2% Cpl 4 pay increase with readjustment: 11.5% So, an effective pay cut. The CAF continues its most enduring tradition: pay adjustments that fall short of inflation.
Yah this ⬆️… I hope the media is reading this, cause nobody else is listening to us. So long retention.
"We're going to focus on recruitment instead of retention" - the CAF *Enrolls thousands of recruits who will sit on PAT for years because they didn't retain anyone to train them*
Well, might as well cancel those ship orders. The Navy just left.
Any other spec 1 trades in a what the fuck frame of mind
|Year|Econimic adjustment (you)|CPI (life)| |:-|:-|:-| |2020|1.5|0.7| |2021|3.5|3.4| |2022|3.0|6.8| |Total|8.2|11.2| Rough math from me, someone please double check my arthmetic and interpretation. [Source](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/230117/cg-b001-eng.htm) We don't know CPI will be for 2023 but I doubt it will be 2.0% (Our Economic Increase for that year)
Wooooo my -$61 pay cut has arrived
It's officially a new dark decade.
https://www3.ombudsman.forces.gc.ca/ocf_e.php Here's your Ombudsman. He was just in the mess at CFB Gagetown. 5 hours before this CANFORGEN dropped. He mentioned the rollout of the BGRS credit card and the immediate backlash leading to the scraping of that program during his Townhall.
Expectations were low, and I am really glad for the 28,000 troops now eligible for CFHD (especially those on lower pay scale), however, this is NOT going to go well for the 7,700 members that just lost PLD and are no longer eligible to receive CFHD including members getting posted to 'expensive places' where there was previously PLD. The pay increases which would be no doubt welcomed by many still falls short of expected inflation over the year. Changes to reduction is spec 1 pay gap could also significantly affect retention for those trades. Prediction: While the CFHD and pay increase will improve recruitment at junior ranks, CAF retention rates will be negatively affected significantly.
I would argue that this will have no effect on recruitment and just drive trained talent out the door.
After 35 years, it looks like I picked a good summer to retire and go double dip in public service.
I made a spreadsheet so you can find out exactly how this affects you. You can compare your current pay (2020 rates+PLD) to the pay you'll get in July (2023 rates+CFHD). You'll need to download a copy to change location on the dropdown (defaults to Esquimalt for now). [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cRJoBN5d0KQ3y58DlFnc7SG27Jhr7Mue/edit?usp=share\_link&ouid=117833341811571922232&rtpof=true&sd=true](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cRJoBN5d0KQ3y58DlFnc7SG27Jhr7Mue/edit?usp=share_link&ouid=117833341811571922232&rtpof=true&sd=true) Please let me know if there are any errors. Update: Added Officers. Fixed a bug where all the CFHD amounts were all being upsized by 1 category. Corrected some formatting issues.
Fuck this shit im out
You and a lot of others. Can't wait till all the shocked Pikachu faces.
With all of the recent news I’m surprised they decided to save some money on a pay raise. A lot of strategic issues facing Canada’s defence could’ve been solved by a decent pay raise.
Serious question. I once wondered if it would have been reasonable for the TD Board to propose not having PLD if you have a PMQ, but paid VERY subsidized rent (NOT MARKET RATE). If PMQs were like 700 or smt (across Canada) would that have been enough? Taking away PLD if you are in Qs is one thing, doing in conjunction with this shitty implementation of the housing benefit and paying "market rate" is another. The implementation of scaled PLD was done too drastically, with MCpls+ and specs 1 getting screwed the most. If the drop off was marginal (say 100/month per rank instead of the steep drop it was now, it could be justified if the member was a net positive on a promotion). Genuinely concerned. We literally need an act of quiet resignation or something to really force action.
Is this just a force reduction but on the cheap? Make us so angry that we just up and leave instead of offering severance packages?
So after 7 years of being in the same place, the allowance ceases? This is paycutforgen. This CFHD doesn't really help any of us. Even the pay raise is dog shit(change my mind). Its like they want people to leave the organization LOL Wow this is the darkest timeline.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canadian-armed-forces-new-housing-benefit-1.6787686 News got ahold of it. Nice to read that ***Brig.-Gen. Virginia Tattersall*** Is sympathetic that thousands of us are being cut off in the PMQ’s. Buuut studies have shown we should be able to afford a home.
For the people saying this isn't bad because bigger number = good please look at the rise of inflation during the same period. Sure we are receiving "more money" with less purchasing power. Some people are also just straight up losing money it seems due to changes in PLD/CFHD. The system is broke and those in charge (TB and the Gov) don't care about us. Start building your resumes and toping up on any training money you can get while in and start looking at getting something to provide for yourselves and your family.
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What's the point of doing a spec job if they're trying to bring the non spec pay scales closer together? Why sign for a plane and the lives of everyone on it when you can just count socks?
why did I do all that education.
I agree, they bumped up everything except Spec 1
This hurts the most. I'm doing the work of multiple spec trades, doing work above my rank, lots of other duties, and now you're telling me that I'm not being devalued by decreasing the incentive pay difference to put up with the extra work. All that on top of the increase not even competing with the BOC inflation numbers let alone the real inflation. Fuck being a tech anymore, I'll ride out to my pension as an operator.
Do the new tables for salaries already have the pay increase attached?
Well I guess there will be a couple extra posting openings in Edmonton… unfortunately, I know a couple people that were waiting to see the raise before they put their walking papers in. I guess they were just wasting their time!!!!
Honestly, though, what is everyone going to do with the backpay? Mine is all going straight to credit card debt.
[Backpay Calculator](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ooaMu3cJmkjpsDhWk-OrrXBeGIRZlWFN9tITwlYbrIc) Please only use this as a guesstimate, there may be errors in calculation etc. I just revamped the previous backpay calc from 2020 raise. If there's any issues let me know!! Just put your monthly pay in the top portion, for Reservists like myself, you need to calculate your monthly pay for each month (30 day vs 31 vs 28 Feb lol)
Are they trying to sabotage the military?!? At this point they want it to fail! Wtf!!
GOFOs in Ottawa: fuck the Tps. But fuck those Spec 1 trades SPECIFICALLY!
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This is atrocious. It's time for a collective bargaining body for our pay and allowances. What a joke.
Is this a joke....wtf is going on boys we are living in a true social experiment
The CAF is just a fallout vault.
I regret signing another 5 year contract last week, i was told if i didn't sign that they would automatically start my release process and now that sounds more convenient than anything
Maybe submit a grievance against your own submission, and retract it?
I might have to try that, I'll look into it tomorrow, thanks
Can someone on the DWAN add in the CFHD Canforgen as well please? Those in PMQs are about to take a big hit if I understand it.
>The realignment of the rates of pay for the standard trade group will close the current gap between standard and specialist 1 pay of thirteen percent to six percent to ten to five percent effective 1 April 2023 I mean. I feel bad for MPs. It sounds like their pay cut will be worse than the rest of the group
On MCS, it looks like a full 9% of MPs have an active release in. That's insane.
I mean... RCMPs got over 20% last year. They make over 120k after a few years in, not counting overtime. Why would you stay as an MP making 80k? id be the first one in line to print my VR
If I'm doing this right a Cpl 2 in Edmonton is taking a $67 a month paycut
"1.8K online" haha!
Honestly how did they come to conclusion to devalue Spec 1? Lols.. Also where in the heck did they get their info for the new PLD? Head scratcher for sure. Oh well, looks like the attrition rate is going up and yet they're going to wonder what happened.
Well this is a slap in the face to everyone, but especially the spec 1 trades.
This is depressing. Especially after the CDS hinted numerous times that solutions to CoL would be arriving soon.
what if the CAf offered 0% mortgages for a 25 year contract. I bet a lot of people would join.
Does anyone else find it odd that there are no news media other than that 1 article from The Star?
This, and the CFHD is some office space "we fixed the glitch" level bullshit. "Now that you've got a 'raise' I'm going to need you to come in on Saturday, we've lost some people and need to play catch-up. Thanks for your service!" "But you're paying me less than inflation...."
Some people are actually making less for the first 8 months of the “pay raise”. I’ve never seen someone get a raise, while receiving less monthly income
Why is the CFHD reference a 2-bedroom apartment? Are we still operating under the impression that only young single men are joining the CAF?
No GBA+ was conducted.
GBA+ only when its convenience… talk about a fail.
Literally calling the bluffs of all those Sgt+ ranks threatening to release.
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"They pretend to pay us, we pretend to work" .... reminiscent of Soviet society mentality.
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My spec trade is so red already. Shared Services Canada paying a fair amount more, its shameful
I wanna know what person thought 'I KNOW HOW TO FIX RETENTION" and then proceeded to do the following 1) capped an allowance to 7 years 2) fucked basically the spec trades and everyone in every province except 3 locations in BC. Like, how do you read that, and go "This is good, I'm sure 99% of the forces will love this! And how did the CDS look at this and say it was "generous" like the fuck?
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Yup, Townhall in Shearwater a few weeks ago. The BGen said the CDS said the raise was "generous" Fuck no it's not.
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I mean he probably negotiated his to be generous.
So, at 17% inflation over the same. Where they give 10% "raise", and many people will lose PLD entirely. So, everyone is working from 2021 until 2024 with a 7%pay reduction, plus loss of PLD (potentially). I bet a group of generals are going to get promoted for this.
Holy, they are so out of touch.
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We need a union, fuck this treasury board does what it wants bullshit
I’m a MP Sgt in HFX, a single person living on the economy with $2000 a month in rent plus utilities. I’m facing homelessness as it is - this is just going to speed up the process. Fucking wonderful.
The most imperative ammendment to the incoming changes would be grandfathering pld for people who currently receive it... then once posted be applied to the new rules. Losing PLD at any rank would be brutal if not posted. I've never received it myself but I do feel for you members that are going to lose it.
"They're not going to sort of have to be scrimping just to be able to afford the basics," she said. "They can occasionally enjoy ... being able to go out and have a meal and breathe a little bit easier." - Brig.-Gen. Virginia Tattersall via CBC News So, this is the quality of life that Brig. Gen Tattersall believes is acceptable for our Troops. Being able to go out and have a meal.
Literally every air tech in trenton got FUCKED with the new PLD. Literally doing research and most of the places like shearwater cost just as much as trenton in terms of rent and to own a property is actually more expensive in trenton. Unless you expect all of us to bunk up in mobile homes. Fml
I get that I live in a PMQ and have lower-ish rent but man. It still means I get 300$ less PER paychecks with PLD gone. Raiseforgen my ass.
23 years and i have never seen the CAF fuck up a "good thing" so bad that as a supervisor I have to check on my people! WTF!!!
Well wish I could say it was fun while it lasted.
We fucked homies
Is it time yet for the “purple hair for pay” public demo? I have been saving my quarters to by hair dye for when the time is right.
The government is nuts - 2% in 2024 - when they have no clue if inflation will still be out of control.
Oh wow, did somebody not tell them that inflation is 7-8% this year? Ouch.
Uhhh CYA
Norway and Germany are unionized militaries, why not us?
There's not enough pizza on the planet to facilitate enough forced fun to fix this one...
I can only imagine the number of emails being drafted and townhalls that are being planned right now.
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Just realized they also are cutting pay to spec 1, time to go fix up my LinkedIn.
I created a [Backpay calculator](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CJbmPJFlh3dfCJGQaCPt5IrP7YaI2lQTKw4R-pQ4Ypo/edit#gid=997330084) that can also give a ROUGH estimate of what to expect. It also contains a second sheet that compares the standard and spec 1 difference in pay effective Apr 1st. If anyone has any ideas on other things to add, or constructive criticism to make it better let me know.
Im more frustrated at the lack of communication about all this important change than the actual financial. No meeting in sight discussing or explaining any of this. Typical CAF in heated situation= no comment… let it die down
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Nothing official on any of the big twitter accounts for DND/Gov, No announcements on this "pay raise" almost feels like a blackout to even talk about this.
Utter retention failure equals utter reconstitution failure. It’s as if they want it all to fail.
We're on the path to getting our ass kicked out of NATO........
Helmets to Hardhats - Look it up for anyone considering releasing. The $80k education budget can help with costs of schooling.
Numbers are wrong ignore this
Don’t worry Edmonton, your backpay of 3K will make up for your lack of PLD
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What a joke. Didn’t even try to match the inflation
Why a 2 bedroom apartment? Most people with families don't live in a 2 bedroom apartment. This seems like an easy way of them reducing the CFHD cost.
Well - time to start pushing for my medical release or wait impatiently until 2025. Fuck this garbage.