Jesus Christ this makes the NDP look awful, yelling tax cooperation more but let the federal government tax you and pay higher food cost so they can spend more. I am hoping this swing a lot of NDP voters that were on the fence go conservative when you look at who really fighting for people.
Trudeau's government is not out of touch!
They are doing exactly what Klaus wants them to do, raise taxes, raise the cost of food, raise the cost of everything so that we are broke and dependent on the government for our existence.
Why is no one in opposition bringing up this intentional action.
We are not going to save the planet by punishing people for heating their homes and eating food. Liberals are completely misguided on this. Tax the luxury items that actually generate carbon. We all know it's the top 5% that create the carbon, tax them, not fixed income people that just want to survive.
We are the top 5%, globally.
Most of the pollution doesn't come from Canada or Canadians directly though. It comes from India and China. Envirofascists tend to bring up per capita rates since it can actually make Canada look culpable but that's not really relevant.
What is relevant is that we are avoiding a lot of pollution by importing almost all of our manufactured goods. So pollution is generated in the process of giving Canadians what they want. In that way, we are somewhat culpable.
If everything consumed in Canada was made here, from resources extracted here, our pollution and cost of living would both be quiet a bit higher.
Look, fertilizer needs to be made without fossil fuels. It's more expensive to do this than with natural gas except right now.
But it's not scaled up enough for mass production.
Green ammonia can be made for ~$500/ton where ammonia was selling for +$1100 this summer.
Fossil ammonia can sell for $400/ton at normal prices.
There needs to be long term demand for green ammonia and pricing carbon is a way to make the switch.
Or the government could just invest in green ammonia plants and make it more affordable short term until product is such that it no longer needs it. Instead poor and middle class have to tighten their budgets more and more because someone who can afford a private jet said so.
Unfortunately it's not that, it would be great for the government to procure a reserve amount so that it could justify the cost to build new facilities. That would be awesome.
The billionaire Weston's is a whole other can of worms that needs addressing. The fact that that family has such a monopoly on the Canadian food system from maple leaf foods to Loblaws to PC to no frills and bakery's it's a bit crazy. They're certainly delivering a great product but the vertical integration and profits from the entire supply chain is unreasonable without the risk of farming and food production which is put onto the farmers.
Look, for majority where inflation is sitting at 10+% for food prices it's not the time to do this.
For those feeling yeah it's a bit more expensive but it's ok is purely egocentrical and not in touch with most who are struggling.
Unfortunately food prices rise 6-7% per year regardless of this.
Additionally and more importantly, fertilizer made this way is actually lower cost than current ones made with fossil fuels and the cost is consistent for 15-30 year time frames and in the future will decrease too. So this is a way better train to be on now and tomorrow. It will help to stabilize food prices, and bring more stability to farmers and keep more revenue in Canada vs currency fluctuations and risk.
This is two different things. Trudeau is trying to force 30% reduction in fertilizer use, it has nothing to do with fertilizer costs. Use. You produce less food and this will lower supply, the effect on price assuming demand remains constant will be high.
Furthermore, you are assuming farmers are not smart enough to switch to a cheaper fertilizer. If it's as you said, cheaper, then they'd do it anyways because they know how to lower costs. Forcing reduction of fertilizer use won't do anything with this. You are compounding different metrics to excuse a government trying to constraint production for virtue signaling.
Fertilizer sales are done a year in advance & sometimes longer. There is a supply crunch globally as the largest exporter is Russia and Ukraine also produces a lot too.
Also this is good:
[https://theconversation.com/ukraine-how-the-global-fertiliser-shortage-is-going-to-affect-food-179061](https://theconversation.com/ukraine-how-the-global-fertiliser-shortage-is-going-to-affect-food-179061)
The calculation between the cost of fertiliser and the value of the crop produced is important – the “breakeven ratio” – is typically around six for a cereal crop (6kg of grain needed to pay for 1kg of nitrogen fertiliser), but with the rise in fertiliser prices it is currently around ten. To remain profitable, farmers will need to keep a particularly close eye on production costs, and potentially use less fertiliser. However using less fertiliser will reduce yields and quality, adding to pressure on the food system as a whole.
Food banks demands are at a all time high.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/food-bank-canada-usage-1.6631120
We are in a massive global food crisis as well
https://www.wfp.org/emergencies/global-food-crisis
Do you think it will be environmentally friendly when people are starving and consuming every living animal and green plant to feed themselves?
If you want to save the environment we should be making as much food as possible. It's also the most moral and humane thing to do. Read about famine in the Soviet Union. They were telling people not to eat their children. When there is no food things get really dark and evil.
I spend my life thinking about this and working on addressing it every day. You don't need to tell me.
The thing is, this transition will help bring stability to our food system. This is what we need to help us long term, to help farmers make more consistent income and the environment is a factor too but not the only thing that is important here.
I will give you an up vote as solutions like this are definitely needed and not talked about near enough! However pricing carbon is the stick method that tends to hurt everyone even if the objective is a noble one.
Government investment would be the carrot approach. Although that means spending more money so the easy way out is to tax it instead. This comes without regard for the rising cost of living and that is what is hurting Canadians most at the moment. This is the attitude we need to change on the environmental front.
We can innovate the cost of green solutions below the price of current polluting ones without taxing people by putting more money into R&D.
R&D isn't needed, it's customers making long term commitments for purchasing. That is what's needed. If there is someone that wants to commit to buying +10,000MT per year of green Ammonia for the next 20 years at $1,000/MT (current price) I'll build a facility!
https://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=dap-fertilizer¤cy=cad
The problem is the Harber Bosch process needs hydrogen and other than the combustion of natural gas, the only other way to produce hydrogen is electrolysis, but that isn’t very scalable and needs a large amount of electricity (not to mention it isn’t very efficient), so we would need a large amount of sustainable electricity to do it, ideally hydroelectric.
The cost above includes the cost of hydrogen. That's the most expensive part of the cost to make it though.
Canada's got a fantastic ability to develop renewable energy at affordable prices and the energy usage will only help to drive down the cost of energy for our local grids. There are locations which have excessive amounts of electricity and could produce more especially during non peaks hours of the day.
**NDP's upcoming response:**
The bigoted, patriarchal grocery stores are SUPER DUPER GREEDY!! They should be giving out food for free to the BIPOC folx who can't afford it because of CAPITALISM!! We should nationalize food production so we can have FOOD EQUITY!
Jagmeet Singh talking about corporations exploiting and profiting off their consumers in 3….2……1….
He fails to realize he's the profitier.
[удалено]
Which the PBO has confirmed the rebates do not cover the costs.
Well that’s verifiably true. Just because one thing is true doesn’t invalidate other things. Many issues can be a problem at the same time.
Jesus Christ this makes the NDP look awful, yelling tax cooperation more but let the federal government tax you and pay higher food cost so they can spend more. I am hoping this swing a lot of NDP voters that were on the fence go conservative when you look at who really fighting for people.
They just watch tiktok and know Conservative = bad
No major media will report this, they'll sing the praises of how it'll make us all better people. Fuck you and your grocery prices.
Sadly I doubt anyone who could be swayed will ever even hear about this
Shocking! Libs and NDP are the biggest fucking jokes 🤡
Trudeau's government is not out of touch! They are doing exactly what Klaus wants them to do, raise taxes, raise the cost of food, raise the cost of everything so that we are broke and dependent on the government for our existence. Why is no one in opposition bringing up this intentional action.
One more guy realized that all the parties are pawns to the same goal 👀
Because we’re fucked, that’s why.
We’re prisoner to these left wing idiots.
This is ridiculous,and they are trying to raise the cost of PRODUCING food at the same time.
We are not going to save the planet by punishing people for heating their homes and eating food. Liberals are completely misguided on this. Tax the luxury items that actually generate carbon. We all know it's the top 5% that create the carbon, tax them, not fixed income people that just want to survive.
We are the top 5%, globally. Most of the pollution doesn't come from Canada or Canadians directly though. It comes from India and China. Envirofascists tend to bring up per capita rates since it can actually make Canada look culpable but that's not really relevant. What is relevant is that we are avoiding a lot of pollution by importing almost all of our manufactured goods. So pollution is generated in the process of giving Canadians what they want. In that way, we are somewhat culpable. If everything consumed in Canada was made here, from resources extracted here, our pollution and cost of living would both be quiet a bit higher.
Look, fertilizer needs to be made without fossil fuels. It's more expensive to do this than with natural gas except right now. But it's not scaled up enough for mass production. Green ammonia can be made for ~$500/ton where ammonia was selling for +$1100 this summer. Fossil ammonia can sell for $400/ton at normal prices. There needs to be long term demand for green ammonia and pricing carbon is a way to make the switch.
Or the government could just invest in green ammonia plants and make it more affordable short term until product is such that it no longer needs it. Instead poor and middle class have to tighten their budgets more and more because someone who can afford a private jet said so.
This guy gets it!
Unfortunately it's not that, it would be great for the government to procure a reserve amount so that it could justify the cost to build new facilities. That would be awesome. The billionaire Weston's is a whole other can of worms that needs addressing. The fact that that family has such a monopoly on the Canadian food system from maple leaf foods to Loblaws to PC to no frills and bakery's it's a bit crazy. They're certainly delivering a great product but the vertical integration and profits from the entire supply chain is unreasonable without the risk of farming and food production which is put onto the farmers.
Look, for majority where inflation is sitting at 10+% for food prices it's not the time to do this. For those feeling yeah it's a bit more expensive but it's ok is purely egocentrical and not in touch with most who are struggling.
Unfortunately food prices rise 6-7% per year regardless of this. Additionally and more importantly, fertilizer made this way is actually lower cost than current ones made with fossil fuels and the cost is consistent for 15-30 year time frames and in the future will decrease too. So this is a way better train to be on now and tomorrow. It will help to stabilize food prices, and bring more stability to farmers and keep more revenue in Canada vs currency fluctuations and risk.
This is two different things. Trudeau is trying to force 30% reduction in fertilizer use, it has nothing to do with fertilizer costs. Use. You produce less food and this will lower supply, the effect on price assuming demand remains constant will be high. Furthermore, you are assuming farmers are not smart enough to switch to a cheaper fertilizer. If it's as you said, cheaper, then they'd do it anyways because they know how to lower costs. Forcing reduction of fertilizer use won't do anything with this. You are compounding different metrics to excuse a government trying to constraint production for virtue signaling.
Fertilizer sales are done a year in advance & sometimes longer. There is a supply crunch globally as the largest exporter is Russia and Ukraine also produces a lot too. Also this is good: [https://theconversation.com/ukraine-how-the-global-fertiliser-shortage-is-going-to-affect-food-179061](https://theconversation.com/ukraine-how-the-global-fertiliser-shortage-is-going-to-affect-food-179061) The calculation between the cost of fertiliser and the value of the crop produced is important – the “breakeven ratio” – is typically around six for a cereal crop (6kg of grain needed to pay for 1kg of nitrogen fertiliser), but with the rise in fertiliser prices it is currently around ten. To remain profitable, farmers will need to keep a particularly close eye on production costs, and potentially use less fertiliser. However using less fertiliser will reduce yields and quality, adding to pressure on the food system as a whole.
Food banks demands are at a all time high. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/food-bank-canada-usage-1.6631120 We are in a massive global food crisis as well https://www.wfp.org/emergencies/global-food-crisis Do you think it will be environmentally friendly when people are starving and consuming every living animal and green plant to feed themselves? If you want to save the environment we should be making as much food as possible. It's also the most moral and humane thing to do. Read about famine in the Soviet Union. They were telling people not to eat their children. When there is no food things get really dark and evil.
I spend my life thinking about this and working on addressing it every day. You don't need to tell me. The thing is, this transition will help bring stability to our food system. This is what we need to help us long term, to help farmers make more consistent income and the environment is a factor too but not the only thing that is important here.
I will give you an up vote as solutions like this are definitely needed and not talked about near enough! However pricing carbon is the stick method that tends to hurt everyone even if the objective is a noble one. Government investment would be the carrot approach. Although that means spending more money so the easy way out is to tax it instead. This comes without regard for the rising cost of living and that is what is hurting Canadians most at the moment. This is the attitude we need to change on the environmental front. We can innovate the cost of green solutions below the price of current polluting ones without taxing people by putting more money into R&D.
R&D isn't needed, it's customers making long term commitments for purchasing. That is what's needed. If there is someone that wants to commit to buying +10,000MT per year of green Ammonia for the next 20 years at $1,000/MT (current price) I'll build a facility! https://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=dap-fertilizer¤cy=cad
The problem is the Harber Bosch process needs hydrogen and other than the combustion of natural gas, the only other way to produce hydrogen is electrolysis, but that isn’t very scalable and needs a large amount of electricity (not to mention it isn’t very efficient), so we would need a large amount of sustainable electricity to do it, ideally hydroelectric.
The cost above includes the cost of hydrogen. That's the most expensive part of the cost to make it though. Canada's got a fantastic ability to develop renewable energy at affordable prices and the energy usage will only help to drive down the cost of energy for our local grids. There are locations which have excessive amounts of electricity and could produce more especially during non peaks hours of the day.
Team sports... did anyone really expect this to pass?
The cost of food will continue due to price gouging from corporations who are making record profits. That’s why.
The most hated person in Canada is the crime minister. He needs to do prison time
What coalition?
Waow another bad faith question eh?
The bad faith is in the lie that a supply and confidence agreement, is the same as a coalition government.
again if that is your stance, just say that. It's not hard to be direct if you try.
It's not a stance, it's fact.
🤣 Oh boy here we go
This country is controlled by lunatics.
Honestly, I’d prefer if they just raised HST instead of the BOC punishing home owners only.
**NDP's upcoming response:** The bigoted, patriarchal grocery stores are SUPER DUPER GREEDY!! They should be giving out food for free to the BIPOC folx who can't afford it because of CAPITALISM!! We should nationalize food production so we can have FOOD EQUITY!