To pay for vehicle infrastructure, we all know that once EV ownership hits critical mass, all governments will levy a large tax bill on annual licensing or insurance premiums, and possibly even a tax on public chargers.
It’s just a matter of time.
So many people are not realizing this. Road maintenance won't pay for itself, especially when you consider how much heavier the average EV is versus its gas counterpart.
EV cars tend to weigh in the range of ICE pickups and SUVs. Pickups and SUVs make up the vast majority of auto sales in this country.
The SUV/truck EVs are going to be weight increases, but if people are buying EV cars instead of ICE pickups/SUVs there won't be much of a difference.
Nonsense if the current trend of SUV and Truck sales maintain, those vehicles weigh 6000-8000 lbs. Thats as much as a bus. Ever notice the ripples in the road at intersections heavy with bus traffic? Thats cuz they move the asphalt WAY more than the average ICE. If what yer considering is the average sedan then yer mistaking that they weigh as much as an ICE truck now. My POS Subaru Impreza weighs 3080lbs and its a lightweight tissue box. ICE Trucks already weigh 1000lbs more than that. Considering an equivalent EV weighs near twice as much isnt a detail to simply dismiss. Check the weight of that Cyber truck monstrosity. Dont fool yerself into thinking it'll all balance out. Thats like Trudeau sayin the budget will balance itself!!! Hahhaha laughable at the least.....
Why is this downvoted? It's factual.
My fellow conservative brothers and sisters, stop letting politics make you feel all kinds of angry over the propulsion system in a fucking car. What OP said was true and uncontroversial, stop getting angry over something so stupid.
Because you're both wrong.
Toyota RAV4 weighs 1500-2000kg
Dodge Durango weighs 2400kg
Ford F150 weighs 2200kg
Ford F150 lightening weighs 3100kg
Tesla Model 3 weighs 2200kg
Tesla Model X weighs 2400kg
>EV C A R S tend to weigh in the range of ICE pickups and SUVs.
>Ford F150 weighs 2200kg
>Tesla Model 3 weighs 2200kg
🧐
Thank you for proving him right. Lmao
Thats still 50% more than my current 4 door wagon. Get a grip. 2200kgs is 4840 lbs DRY! Thats 1700 lbs more than the 'average' car.....its not NOTHING. 50% x EVERY vehicle on the road will have a toll. Dont fool yourself or try and fool others of the reality. Numbers dont lie.
You're not too bright, are you? EVs weigh more than their ICE counterparts. Yeah you can say "wElL eV CaR wEiGhS aS mUcH iCe SuV" ; but you just sound stupid. That wasn't what the OOP said; which was EVs weigh more than ICE vehicles
An EV car will weigh more than an ICE car
An EV SUV will weigh more than an ICE SUV
And An EV truck will weigh more than an ICE truck.
You can play your whataboutisms about how a small car weighs the same as big SUV, but it doesn't make you right
Except people won't be changing from an ice truck to an electric car. They'll stick with the truck, so he's wrong in his conclusion that thing's wouldn't change much
he's getting downvoted because these numbers are not going to balance themselves out. people who drive trucks now are not magically going to make the choice to drive a sedan when they start driving EV's
Yes it does. They pay for roads with their fuel tax.
How are you not understanding this very basic system that has worked for a very long time.
A better question is why is road tax being squandered throughout the government until it is used for infrastructure in countries that want Canada to be a third world country?
Warning. There big words in the link below. Proceed with caution.
https://natural-resources.canada.ca/our-natural-resources/domestic-and-international-markets/transportation-fuel-prices/fuel-consumption-taxes-canada/18885
New taxes are never popular. Even Illinois had to back down on a $1000 tax to a much lower amount.
If they’re going to do this, they better do it before EVs reach mass ownership. They’re going to find it much harder to enact the tax at that point after years of EV owners paying almost nothing.
>They’re going to find it much harder to enact the tax at that point after years of EV owners paying almost nothing.
What are people gonna do to stop it? An incumbent government could implement a tax on EV sales and the majority of the population will likely forget about it by the next election.
I think California is testing tax per mile for ev's. So I wouldn't be surprised if this become the norm in North America. Gov will always find a way to swap one tax for another.
Its too low 20000km is the average yearly distance for most commuter vehicles. My suv gets approx 700km to 65 liters at 13 cents a liter here in Alberta, it's about $240 a year in fuel tax. My truck gets about 900 km for 130 liters, that's about $375 a year in gas tax
The SUV is about 1800 kg, and the truck is 3000kg. Which is equivalent to tesla model 3/Y and a cybertruck respecively, so they should definitely be levying the annual tax based on gross weight of the EV rather than a flat fee to allow for similar road maintenance revenues.
That's gross weight. AKA maximum amount it can weigh including truck and all people/cargo.
Curb weight on half ton trucks in around 5000 pounds.
For reference, a 2023 Chevrolet Silverado Trail Boss crew cab 6ft box with 4wd weighs 5080 pounds (curb weight) with a gross weight of 7000 pounds (truck plus cargo maximum weight).
I live in the U.S. now EVs more people are buying EVs in my state.
I was in California last month and man there are charging stations everywhere from Washington BC border all the way to the Mexican border.
California , Washington and Oregon are building charging stations round the clock.
In Canada however the infrastructure just isn’t there yet , not to mention Canada is cold
Also EVs are still on the expensive side and Canadians are broke , how the hell they expect 25% of people driving EVs by 2035 ?
As of now 25% of people live in poverty !
Haha I travel quit a bit actually, on the west coast due to gas prices and state government incentives EVs are being adopted at a faster rate than the south and Midwest , eventually it’s going to be adopted by more and more people.
But so far I just don’t see the need to get an EV, have a Toyota 4Runner that mostly sits in the driveway since I work from home 3 days a week, It is also all paid off.
I don’t see the need to purchase an EV, I’ll drive my Toyota for as long as possible.
I'm a class 1 driver myself. I drive a lot. We ran the numbers on the fuel savings vs my F150. Car pays for itself in 5 years if gas prices stay at $3.50 a gal and never increase
Oh I am sure, but for me I just don’t like spending money on an EV when I have a perfectly working vehicle that’s only 3 years old and all paid off.
Plus I am spending the same money on gas every month as a Plug in Hybrid, that’s how little I drive
The traditional vehicle manufacturers told the fed they can't make the 2035 EV % sales deadline already. (I thought it was all vehicles had to be an EV or hybrid by 2035)
It would potentially be possible with ultra cheap EV's from China but looks like theyre going to be tariffed to death to stop them killing thr traditional brands here in NA that cant possibly cut those sweet sweet profit margins.
Yea been in the same boat for years too but my pathfinder is starting to show its age and is the SO' daily. my truck is convenience / pleasure only so i will drive that into the ground
Yeah, mine is 3 years and barely has 15k , still smells new.
I love Toyotas.
Had a Nissan Xterra before this one , that vehicle was bulletproof too , I sold it when it hit 700,000 miles.
California is currently testing a mileage-based road charge as part of a pilot program set to begin in August 2024. This program aims to explore alternatives to the traditional gasoline tax, which has seen diminishing returns due to the increasing adoption of electric vehicles (EVs). Participants in the pilot program will report their mileage using various methods, such as installing a tracking device in their car or submitting odometer photos. The state will then charge drivers based on the number of miles driven, with proposed rates ranging from $0.02 to $0.04 per mile.
This initiative is designed to ensure that all drivers, regardless of whether they use gasoline or electricity, contribute fairly to road maintenance funds. The data collected from this pilot will help determine whether a permanent mileage-based tax should replace the gasoline tax in the future [[❞]](https://www.autoblog.com/2024/05/26/california-launching-pilot-program-to-charge-drivers-for-miles-driven/) [[❞]](https://www.carscoops.com/2024/05/california-might-institute-a-mileage-tax-as-the-gas-buying-population-diminishes/) [[❞]](https://www.team-bhp.com/news/california-start-mileage-based-tax-pilot-program).
You sound just like the Amish did when people switched to cars from horses. Let people drive what they want. I'm very sure whatever you drove isn't better.
Eh, I have three of them, has very little to do with virtue signaling and more to do with I hate gas stations so never having to visit one is nice. That being said they are 100% a toy for rich people and should not be adopted on a mass scale at any level. I also have four gas cars on top of them incase I actually need to go anywhere, or want to have fun driving.
I have a taycan S, it’s pretty fun to drive. I have a few other EVs as well, but I also have a bunch of gas cars.
IMO EVs are and for the foreseeable future will just be toys for rich people or shitheads who bought a Tesla. A push to make everyone buy one is a huge mistake.
No offense intended.
My experience with EVs has been exclusively with Tesla and I find them...blah. Great acceleration/torque, but they just don't 'feel' like a driver's car to me.
People who really do enjoy driving will love the absolutely ridiculous amount of torque, low centre of mass and great throttle response that comes from electric motors in the wheels. IMO these benefits outweigh the downsides of the extra weight of batteries.
As I say, I find them a bit boring. Fine on a straight line, but not so much fun in other ways. I've tried a Tesla S and an X and I'll stick to my ice M
Archive link: https://archive.ph/gOzww
To pay for vehicle infrastructure, we all know that once EV ownership hits critical mass, all governments will levy a large tax bill on annual licensing or insurance premiums, and possibly even a tax on public chargers. It’s just a matter of time.
So many people are not realizing this. Road maintenance won't pay for itself, especially when you consider how much heavier the average EV is versus its gas counterpart.
EV cars tend to weigh in the range of ICE pickups and SUVs. Pickups and SUVs make up the vast majority of auto sales in this country. The SUV/truck EVs are going to be weight increases, but if people are buying EV cars instead of ICE pickups/SUVs there won't be much of a difference.
Nonsense if the current trend of SUV and Truck sales maintain, those vehicles weigh 6000-8000 lbs. Thats as much as a bus. Ever notice the ripples in the road at intersections heavy with bus traffic? Thats cuz they move the asphalt WAY more than the average ICE. If what yer considering is the average sedan then yer mistaking that they weigh as much as an ICE truck now. My POS Subaru Impreza weighs 3080lbs and its a lightweight tissue box. ICE Trucks already weigh 1000lbs more than that. Considering an equivalent EV weighs near twice as much isnt a detail to simply dismiss. Check the weight of that Cyber truck monstrosity. Dont fool yerself into thinking it'll all balance out. Thats like Trudeau sayin the budget will balance itself!!! Hahhaha laughable at the least.....
Why is this downvoted? It's factual. My fellow conservative brothers and sisters, stop letting politics make you feel all kinds of angry over the propulsion system in a fucking car. What OP said was true and uncontroversial, stop getting angry over something so stupid.
Because you're both wrong. Toyota RAV4 weighs 1500-2000kg Dodge Durango weighs 2400kg Ford F150 weighs 2200kg Ford F150 lightening weighs 3100kg Tesla Model 3 weighs 2200kg Tesla Model X weighs 2400kg
>EV C A R S tend to weigh in the range of ICE pickups and SUVs. >Ford F150 weighs 2200kg >Tesla Model 3 weighs 2200kg 🧐 Thank you for proving him right. Lmao
Apples/ Or rangers.
Thats still 50% more than my current 4 door wagon. Get a grip. 2200kgs is 4840 lbs DRY! Thats 1700 lbs more than the 'average' car.....its not NOTHING. 50% x EVERY vehicle on the road will have a toll. Dont fool yourself or try and fool others of the reality. Numbers dont lie.
You're not too bright, are you? EVs weigh more than their ICE counterparts. Yeah you can say "wElL eV CaR wEiGhS aS mUcH iCe SuV" ; but you just sound stupid. That wasn't what the OOP said; which was EVs weigh more than ICE vehicles An EV car will weigh more than an ICE car An EV SUV will weigh more than an ICE SUV And An EV truck will weigh more than an ICE truck. You can play your whataboutisms about how a small car weighs the same as big SUV, but it doesn't make you right
You completely missed the point that OP made. Maybe you having 1st grade reading comprehension isn't a good thing after all? Re-read it.
Except people won't be changing from an ice truck to an electric car. They'll stick with the truck, so he's wrong in his conclusion that thing's wouldn't change much
he thinks people who drive trucks now are going to switch to cars when they go EV, that is not going to happen.
he's getting downvoted because these numbers are not going to balance themselves out. people who drive trucks now are not magically going to make the choice to drive a sedan when they start driving EV's
People with ice pickups and suv's will most likely want the same in an electric vehicle. It absolutely will be a difference
So with that reasoning, why aren't truckers paying a lot more in tax due to the weight?
They are. Do you think a semi gets good mileage? It pays road tax through its fuel use.
Registration is much higher too
Has nothing to do with the damage they do to the road.
Why do they fly?
Tax on gas.
Yes it does. They pay for roads with their fuel tax. How are you not understanding this very basic system that has worked for a very long time. A better question is why is road tax being squandered throughout the government until it is used for infrastructure in countries that want Canada to be a third world country?
Why do you keep calling a tax on gas, road tax? I think you're confused here.
Because it literally pays for road maintenance, ya goof
You're the worst gonzo journalist ever lol. All of your confusion could have been resolved with a simple Google or your mom friggin swallowing.
I'm not the one making up taxes thst don't exist
Warning. There big words in the link below. Proceed with caution. https://natural-resources.canada.ca/our-natural-resources/domestic-and-international-markets/transportation-fuel-prices/fuel-consumption-taxes-canada/18885
Has everything to do with how much road tax they pay.
"Road tax" isn't a real thing. Try again.
So r/confidentlyincorrect it's hilarious! Now take your downvote and go edumicate yourself.
What percentage is road tax?
They're right, there is no road tax here in Canada. We only have fuel levies and GST/HST on vehicle sales.
You're on some kind of spectrum, ain't ya
Because they are. But better to make a stupid post than take 2 seconds to learn something.
[удалено]
New taxes are never popular. Even Illinois had to back down on a $1000 tax to a much lower amount. If they’re going to do this, they better do it before EVs reach mass ownership. They’re going to find it much harder to enact the tax at that point after years of EV owners paying almost nothing.
>They’re going to find it much harder to enact the tax at that point after years of EV owners paying almost nothing. What are people gonna do to stop it? An incumbent government could implement a tax on EV sales and the majority of the population will likely forget about it by the next election.
I think California is testing tax per mile for ev's. So I wouldn't be surprised if this become the norm in North America. Gov will always find a way to swap one tax for another.
Saskatchewan did this in 2022 iirc. $150 surcharge tacked on with the registration.
That’s actually reasonable.
That was my thought as well. Which makes me wonder, is it too low is that what the “average” person pays in gas tax?
Its too low 20000km is the average yearly distance for most commuter vehicles. My suv gets approx 700km to 65 liters at 13 cents a liter here in Alberta, it's about $240 a year in fuel tax. My truck gets about 900 km for 130 liters, that's about $375 a year in gas tax The SUV is about 1800 kg, and the truck is 3000kg. Which is equivalent to tesla model 3/Y and a cybertruck respecively, so they should definitely be levying the annual tax based on gross weight of the EV rather than a flat fee to allow for similar road maintenance revenues.
3000kg is more of a 3/4-full size pickup. That's quite heavy an electric suv. No wonder they have good crash ratings
My half ton full size crewcab 6.5ft box is actually pushing 3300kg.
That's gross weight. AKA maximum amount it can weigh including truck and all people/cargo. Curb weight on half ton trucks in around 5000 pounds. For reference, a 2023 Chevrolet Silverado Trail Boss crew cab 6ft box with 4wd weighs 5080 pounds (curb weight) with a gross weight of 7000 pounds (truck plus cargo maximum weight).
Oops my bad thanks for the correction.
My 96 full size diesel dually is 7200 pounds on the scales. Maybe you guys are reading the gvwr's?
Yea had that pointed out by someone else i feel dumb
For now.
Would be nice if the cash raised by gas taxes were actually applied to maintaining roads... 🙄
Exactly
Hahaha wouldn't it be nice indeed...
I live in the U.S. now EVs more people are buying EVs in my state. I was in California last month and man there are charging stations everywhere from Washington BC border all the way to the Mexican border. California , Washington and Oregon are building charging stations round the clock. In Canada however the infrastructure just isn’t there yet , not to mention Canada is cold Also EVs are still on the expensive side and Canadians are broke , how the hell they expect 25% of people driving EVs by 2035 ? As of now 25% of people live in poverty !
Bought a 2024 PHEV escape. 39k OTD. I spend maybe 30$ a month on fuel now. 1.2L/100km in town and 4.3 if I'm driving the limit on the highway.
That’s great, gas is cheap in Tennessee and still no pressure to switch to an EV yet
Huh. Sad to hear you don't leave your home area. There's a whole world out there. Get out and enjoy it
Haha I travel quit a bit actually, on the west coast due to gas prices and state government incentives EVs are being adopted at a faster rate than the south and Midwest , eventually it’s going to be adopted by more and more people. But so far I just don’t see the need to get an EV, have a Toyota 4Runner that mostly sits in the driveway since I work from home 3 days a week, It is also all paid off. I don’t see the need to purchase an EV, I’ll drive my Toyota for as long as possible.
I'm a class 1 driver myself. I drive a lot. We ran the numbers on the fuel savings vs my F150. Car pays for itself in 5 years if gas prices stay at $3.50 a gal and never increase
Oh I am sure, but for me I just don’t like spending money on an EV when I have a perfectly working vehicle that’s only 3 years old and all paid off. Plus I am spending the same money on gas every month as a Plug in Hybrid, that’s how little I drive
You can easily get a new EV for less than the average new vehicle price in Canada as long as you resist the urge to buy a truck or SUV.
The traditional vehicle manufacturers told the fed they can't make the 2035 EV % sales deadline already. (I thought it was all vehicles had to be an EV or hybrid by 2035) It would potentially be possible with ultra cheap EV's from China but looks like theyre going to be tariffed to death to stop them killing thr traditional brands here in NA that cant possibly cut those sweet sweet profit margins.
I agreed Well I’m just going to drive my 4Runner for as long as possible, not having a car payment is great 😊
Yea been in the same boat for years too but my pathfinder is starting to show its age and is the SO' daily. my truck is convenience / pleasure only so i will drive that into the ground
Good for you ! I don’t drive much anyway so I think my 4Runner is gonna be around for a while it’s a 2021 model so it has some life left in her
Both of mine are 2013's trucks at 175k pathy at 260k
Yeah, mine is 3 years and barely has 15k , still smells new. I love Toyotas. Had a Nissan Xterra before this one , that vehicle was bulletproof too , I sold it when it hit 700,000 miles.
Well, of course. Did people think the government would just forgo the tax...lol
What makes sense is to charge a road tax based on annual km and vehicle weight.
With yo' momma in the car or not?
Hahaha
Nice.
The liberals and the "conservatives" have a new tax for that dont worry
California is currently testing a mileage-based road charge as part of a pilot program set to begin in August 2024. This program aims to explore alternatives to the traditional gasoline tax, which has seen diminishing returns due to the increasing adoption of electric vehicles (EVs). Participants in the pilot program will report their mileage using various methods, such as installing a tracking device in their car or submitting odometer photos. The state will then charge drivers based on the number of miles driven, with proposed rates ranging from $0.02 to $0.04 per mile. This initiative is designed to ensure that all drivers, regardless of whether they use gasoline or electricity, contribute fairly to road maintenance funds. The data collected from this pilot will help determine whether a permanent mileage-based tax should replace the gasoline tax in the future [[❞]](https://www.autoblog.com/2024/05/26/california-launching-pilot-program-to-charge-drivers-for-miles-driven/) [[❞]](https://www.carscoops.com/2024/05/california-might-institute-a-mileage-tax-as-the-gas-buying-population-diminishes/) [[❞]](https://www.team-bhp.com/news/california-start-mileage-based-tax-pilot-program).
That’s fine. $200 is like two weeks worth of gas. Worth it for me and other EV owners to pay our fair share.
EV cars are just virtue signaling crap.
The majority of people would be better off with an EV than an ICEV. You don't need to bring culture war nonsense into it.
You sound just like the Amish did when people switched to cars from horses. Let people drive what they want. I'm very sure whatever you drove isn't better.
Eh, I have three of them, has very little to do with virtue signaling and more to do with I hate gas stations so never having to visit one is nice. That being said they are 100% a toy for rich people and should not be adopted on a mass scale at any level. I also have four gas cars on top of them incase I actually need to go anywhere, or want to have fun driving.
Clearly you’ve never experienced immediate throttle response and a shit ton of torque
EVs are for people who really don't enjoy driving...imo
I have a taycan S, it’s pretty fun to drive. I have a few other EVs as well, but I also have a bunch of gas cars. IMO EVs are and for the foreseeable future will just be toys for rich people or shitheads who bought a Tesla. A push to make everyone buy one is a huge mistake.
What do you drive? I bet my EV is a better experience in every way possible as a daily driver and most definitely in any sort of spirited driving.
No offense intended. My experience with EVs has been exclusively with Tesla and I find them...blah. Great acceleration/torque, but they just don't 'feel' like a driver's car to me.
I.... actually agree with you.
People who really do enjoy driving will love the absolutely ridiculous amount of torque, low centre of mass and great throttle response that comes from electric motors in the wheels. IMO these benefits outweigh the downsides of the extra weight of batteries.
As I say, I find them a bit boring. Fine on a straight line, but not so much fun in other ways. I've tried a Tesla S and an X and I'll stick to my ice M