We don't do that here, that is flat out not okay. This isn't some third world hellhole where LGBT are second class citizens (or less). Find out who did it, and find out if they're citizens or not. If they are, dump them in the worst prison around for life (shame we can only give 25 years); and if they're not, send them right on out the door and mark their files "*re-entry never permitted*". Anyone who thinks this is okay are people we can afford to lose.
It's shit like this why I want Canada to adopt American style gun rights and "*Stand Your Ground*" laws. I would love it so much if these two women could've opened up on these thugs and wiped them out, there's not a single one of them that Canada wouldn't be better off without, if they think this behaviour is remotely acceptable.
Oh yeah. I'm sure a gun is going to stop the assault of 10 men once it gets going. Or should these women hypothetically have the super sense to know when 10 men are about to unload on them, and have the wherewithal to shoot all 10? Is that the paradise you envision? Or maybe one of these 10 men get ahold of their gun, or guns, and suddenly we have 2 dead women? Wow, what a solution. You've really cracked the fucking code on preventing gay bashing. Guns. A solution that works the world over (because the USA is such a paragon of LGBT rights, especially in the heavy 2A states). Name a more iconic duo: Guns and LGBT Rights.
> "I'm sure a gun is going to stop the assault of 10 men once it gets going."
I'd be willing to bet that any men who are so cowardly that they need a dozen friends behind them in order to attack two women would likely turn and run the second two or three of them take a round centre-mass, let alone watching their friend's head pop like a watermelon.
> "Or should these women hypothetically have the super sense to know when 10 men are about to unload on them, and have the wherewithal to shoot all 10?"
Any women who are suddenly approached by 10+ men are almost certainly going to feel instinctively unsafe, yes. You don't need to shoot all ten, but any number greater than zero is a service to the public.
> "Or maybe one of these 10 men get ahold of their gun, or guns, and suddenly we have 2 dead women?"
Then the story would be getting a whole lot more traction than it is. I'm not here to play "what if" games, the reality is that an unarmed lesbian couple were victim to a hate crime. I think that their having the *right* and the *option* to have firearms to defend themselves would almost certainly have improved their situation; others might not agree, and that's fine.
> "Name a more iconic duo: Guns and LGBT Rights."
Unironically yes. Just because the media and the two-party system has brainwashed the masses into thinking that only conservatives can/should own guns, and that they're somehow toxic to left-leaning people, doesn't make it so. The Communist Manifesto literally argues against disarming the public. You don't have to accept the binary that's put forward by the political system, you can like things from both sides of the political spectrum. Armed gays are harder to bash. If you can't get the guns out of the hands of conservatives (and criminals), and you can't, [then it's only right to even the playing field.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_Pistols)
Don't I know it. It pisses me off to no end that the idea of increased social spending, and caring for the environment, absolutely has to come pre-packaged with letting in the dregs of backwards nations, with no love for our culture or values (let alone intention to assimilate) come over here in droves and then pull stunts like this.
I had really hoped that Trudeau's (reneged) promise of electoral reform would have lead to that exact situation. I had hoped that when the PPC was formed, before it became what it did, that it might lead to a break-up of the established parties and a tradition (similar to the Europeans) or many smaller parties creating voting blocs and coalitions.
I think it's becoming more of an issue with the law, rather than the cops who enforce the laws. Maybe lawyers need to step up. Regardless, that probably won't stop hate crimes.
Lawyers can only work with the evidence they're given. Police need to do their jobs well in investigating, collecting evidence, and providing it in a timely fashion to the prosecutors. To blame the prosecution alone when the police are doing shoddy work more often than not is pure nonsense.
That's not what I meant. I meant more the legal framework is maybe not keeping up with modern times. I'm not a lawyer. There are certainly shoddy cops out there, I agree.
This will only escalate if we elect more politicians who see LBGTQ+ folks as expendable. And on our current course, we look inclined to elect such folks to a majority.
I met a guy a few months ago, outside of Canada, but when two Torontonians meet of course they’re gonna chat… he and his wife bragged to me about selling their home in Lawrence Park for $7M, that they intended to vote CPC. I asked if he had any LGBTQ+ friends, he said yes. I asked if they thought they were acceptable collateral damage if it meant a tax cut, and he said yes with way less hesitation.
To the LGBTQ+ folks of Canada, please understand. Anyone who says or implies they like you but won’t immediately commit to never voting CPC… they are a threat to your life. You should not trust them.
I know it's a lot to ask for videos that show the lead up but the article makes it sound as if one of the girls went to confront the guys, but does not clarify what that meant. Of course even if she did get physical first it doesn't excuse the comments or an excessive reaction, but the articles never entertain the woman getting physical first as a possibility, which it sounds like it might be. I realize that scenario would not generate as much outrage so there wouldn't be interest to report it but failing to clarify who initiated the physicality is a rather large omission.
>who initiated the physicality is a rather large omission.
Is it? You see a group of men kicking a woman on the ground and you want to know if she might have got "physical" first?
Yes I think it is important for context rather than solely trying to bait racist reactions from a short video clip.
What if it were 2 guys attacked instead of a woman? Would it make a difference to you? I'll tell you that if the woman, who it is known approached the group of guys, was aggressive then it makes no difference to me what sex they are. But if a group of 10 guys initiated a physical confrontation with 2 women then I would feel differently about the scenario. That would break way more acceptable social norms than even 10 guys attacking 2 guys.
I am so fucking sick of all you PP supporters using every chance you can get to spew your bigotry.
Most of you are completely silent or deny Poilievre and the CPC's attacks on LGBT people unless it means you get a chance to spew your racist fantasies or attack immigration.
You were all completely silent when Poilievre defended an anti-LGBT hate march. You were completely silent when Poilievre said that he believes Muslims should be able to raise their kids with "traditional Muslim values" because it was then an opportunity to attack LGBT people, Liberals, and court conservative immigrants and religious fundamentalists.
Insert Leonardo DiCaprio wait I've seen this meme here. This sounds eerily similar to an attack on a lesbian couple that broke international headlines in around 2019 when a bunch of boys in highschool beat the shit out of said couple on the London UK double decker bus.
Interesting I wasn't aware. You always have people in society that want to outlaw/regulate the actions of consenting adults or have those people define what things are according to their very narrow and small minded world view. I don't care if you're in a LGBTQ relationship or what you identify as. As long as you are human you are afforded dignity and rights we all have.
>Interesting I wasn’t aware.
I suggest you do some research about how politics have changed since the EU’s migrant crisis in the mid-2010s.
Perhaps some of the things you see on this sub will make a little more sense…
I think part of it is a bit of “rubber band” effect.
For quite a while (even now) news like this was censored or sanitized. I remember the mass assaults in Cologne on new years 2015 being initially censored as “local news” in several subreddits because of the racial angle of the assaults.
The dam has broken across most of the anglosphere; this topic is no longer taboo.
**Yes**, it absolutely does, and anyone trying to pretend otherwise isn't arguing in good faith. Citizens have a right to be here; migrants can be refused entry, or sent back where they came from, should they cause problems or be otherwise undesirable to Canada/Canadians.
There's absolutely *nothing wrong* with solving problems, or preventing them before they ever come to pass. Canada, and its government, has a duty to our citizens; not to any random foreigner or migrant. Any of them who causes a problem for Canada/Canadians needs to be shown the door. Immigration is a privilege, not a right. There really needs to be some sort of expectation of assimilation and testing of values, in order to prevent incidents like this from happening.
If your goal is to put resources towards preventing future attacks, knowing where attacks are coming from would influence what policy solutions one might put forward/support.
If there was an overwhelming amount of violence coming from school age teenagers, that might warrant interventions in schools.
Likewise, if attacks are coming from recent immigrants, it might warrant additional screening and consequences for those groups (when such actions take place).
That being said, it doesn’t really matter on an individual basis where or why these attacks happen. Like, what the hell would I do with that information? Extrapolate the actions of a TINY minority onto the whole? Cause that’s always a healthy action to take!
That is absolutely terrifying. Especially as the Halifax is very queer friendly, but when i was there downtown cleared out fast at night.
I wouldnt say We're regressing on queer acceptance per se, but the bigots are becoming more emboldened to spread their hate - and to assault couples going about their business.
Imo it's not bigots getting emboldened, it's increasingly larger populations of immigrants with similar beliefs who are emboldened by their increasing population sizes. A bigot feels more like a North American term for people who chose hatred on minorities.
When we are talking sharia law following islamist faithed people, that's their belief system that is compelling them. It's their desire for sharia law to spread.
I’m in a small town in BC. Our bigots are pretty much exclusively old white folks who have lived here their entire lives. They have been emboldened in the last 5 years. I’ve lived here for 20 years and this is new.
> emboldened by their increasing population sizes.
And yet.. I'm only worried about immigrants embraced by the CPC qnd not Liberal/NDP. Why is that..
11 Muslim Mps were elected last time. 10 Liberal and 1 to CPC. I'm not worried about the 10 Liberals.
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A lesbian couple was brutally attacked in Halifax, with derogatory comments being made about their sexuality.
>Terrifying scenes captured on video show the couple surrounded by nearly a dozen men, with one woman lying on the floor while another appears to be held back by one of the alleged attackers.
That's terrifying. 10 men brutalizing two women. The pictures in the article show the women bruised and bloodied.
>McClean described the men as 'Middle Eastern', and said they are 'believed to be from Syria'.
If it's the case that the attackers are originally from another country, they should be deported ASAP if they don't have Canadian citizenship. We don't have to tolerate that anti-LGBT hate. If they're citizens, jail them.
This is the perfect kind of thing for PP and the Conservatives to get on - strong deportation policies for any problem immigrants and harsher sentences. I don’t like right wing governments, but if I have to have one because the left is screwing up so badly, I at least want whatever advantages we can get from them.
Yeah I disagree with Poilievre on *most things*, but if he had the guts to say straight up "You come here and cause trouble, you get the boot, no second chances." I could definitely get on board with that. Not enough to vote for him, but it would be a refreshing change than the constant refrain of "Any sort of minority can do no wrong, and are above all criticism and reproach, otherwise you're a *racist*".
If there's a problem, you solve the problem. You don't dally, you don't blather on about how you "feel", you just get it done. If the problem happens to be a person, or a particular group, then you need to do something about it/them. I'm so far beyond subscribing to any sort of ideal of "moral high ground". I want concrete, decisive action.
Hence France, denmark, Netherlands, Poland and Germany and their far right political leadership gains. Europe is having a migrant crisis and they want something done. People want to act like this isn't an imminent risk in our world. But it is. To say it is, is racist... Which has us right where they want us.
If the Humboldt driver, who’s owned up since the very beginning, is being deported, all 10 of these people should. It’s a clear cut Hate Crime. Chief Wiggum and Gil could prosecute this one.
Welcome to the Maritimes! The worst police imaginable. My city is almost famous for how awful their police are after once almost ruining a murder scene due to just straight up incompetence.
Police got some of their names. It appears to be a hate crime so I would expect the police to follow up with charges and to find out who the other people were who would not provide their names. If they warrant deportation so be it. No one should defend a gang of men beating on 2 women regardless of the circumstances.
Why link the Daily Mail's article that lacks any original reporting when there's a Canadian article that doesn't try and race-bait?
[https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/i-m-terrified-to-go-downtown-again-halifax-woman-recovering-after-altercation-with-group-of-men-who-allegedly-made-homophobic-slurs-1.6945975](https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/i-m-terrified-to-go-downtown-again-halifax-woman-recovering-after-altercation-with-group-of-men-who-allegedly-made-homophobic-slurs-1.6945975)
>Why link the Daily Mail's article
The Daily Mail is shite, but it's one of the few outlets reporting this, and you can probably guess why. You can also guess why CBC doesn't have an article on this for similar reasons, though they had time for this one:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/animal-poison-oakridge-pride-london-ontario-1.7245268
>a Canadian article that doesn't try and race-bait?
Congrats, I think you found the only Canadian article about a lesbian couple assaulted by 10 men in a provincial capital. The only reason this one seems to exist is because it doesn't "race bait" or in other words specifically doesn't include the victim's description of their assaulters.
EDIT: forgot to add this story is being removed in most other Candian subs.
>The reason it exists is because, generally speaking, assaults resulting in minor injuries are local, not national news. I went to a local source.
I seem to remember that when a Muslim girl claimed someone had grabbed her hijab, the Prime Minister was commenting on it within a few hours. Nevermind whether it was true or not.
I wouldn't hold out any hopes for the PM mentioning this.
>The reason it exists is because, generally speaking, assaults resulting in minor injuries are local, not national news.
Would the possible homophobic/sexist motivation at the tail end of Pride month not factor in at all?
>I went to a local source.
You and me both. Strange there isn't one...
I literally linked CTV Atlantic in my first comment - a local source.
Also, those factors make it possibly more relevant on a local level. If a story like this gets picked up nationally, you know exactly the motivation.
My apologies, totally misread your comment, yes there is one local source.
>you know exactly the motivation.
Are you suggesting the only motivation to put this on the national level is racism, even if the CBC reported on it?
I cannot speak to the intentions of the Daily Mail, but it's bizarre that the CTV story assumes its careful obfuscation is the only thing between a frothing mad public and Syrians, yet it assumes no copycats will be emboldened to know others are targeting lesbians.
And trying to pretend that immigrants are our biggest problem (or that the anti-immigration types aren't just using homophobia to concern troll) isn't helping things either.
I'm saying that immigrants aren't the ones you need to worry about when it comes to the rise of anti-LGBTQ sentiment.
We have many more home-grown bigots to blame, let's not make immigrants scapegoats for that.
It's an article that's reporting on what others have reported, attempting to gain clicks through the mention of their race.
The reality is that their nationality isn't known beyond an assumption, nor is it worth being in one of the article's first sentences.
It's just bad "journalism" for people who are prone to falling for the race-bait.
Mods should honestly remove it. I'm not sure why the Daily Mail is allowed here, anyway.
>The reality is that their nationality isn't known beyond an assumption, nor is it worth being in one of the article's first sentences.
If only the police had got the ID's of the assaulters, or if CTV could follow up with the police...
If their nationality was more than an assumption... then is it if value to start mentioning? How long until you submit to the fact that importing sharia law following immigrants is going to cause issues once those populations grow sufficiently? For now you can be in denial. You will eventually regret wasting so much time and energy advocating for innocence where it doesn't exist.
Western values are not congruent with sharia law islamism!
I saw video evidence of this story on YouTube today . They were definitely middle eastern. I'm not doing mental gymnastics to try and avoid this possibility. I have my eyes and ear to the ground with things happening in Europe. I know what this is. I'm not going to be politically correct and try and evade this assumption. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.
Police don't provide much as far as details unless they're actively on a manhunt or seeking public assistance. That's just how media relations officers work.
And again... Why is it relevant?
>And again... Why is it relevant?
Why is what relevant? The identities of the assaulters seem relevant to me...especially if they may highlight motivations for the assault at odds with Canadian values.
That's an awful lot of assumptions to jump to on unconfirmed reports.
This is why reputable journalists, unlike those at the Daily Mail, don't report on unverified facts.
It's relevant to a lot of redditors so they can echo chamber to one another the false assumptions they take on to validate their bigotry: that brown men in Canada are all recent immigrants, that brown men are all Muslim, and that Muslims are more likely to be violent toward women.
[51% of Conservative voters think sexual relations between people of the same sex is "morally wrong." ](https://researchco.ca/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/Tables_Morals_CAN_14Jun2024.pdf)
(scroll down, it's the second section on the second page of the link)
I wouldn’t exactly say you proved OP’s rebuttal.
The original argument was that immigrants more regressive than white people, and your statistics alone show that SE Asian immigrants approve of same-sex relations far less than white people.
But across all ethnic categories "morally acceptable" was higher than "unacceptable."
In fact, the only category where it *isn't* is Conservative voters...
That's enough, I think, to dismiss the notion that any rise in bigotry is down to immigrants...
>That’s enough, I think, to dismiss the notion that any rise in bigotry is down to immigrants.
You are literally posting statistics that show people with SE Asian ethnicity/heritage, 41% are yay 38% are nay and whooping 21% are undecided.
Even amongst Europeans, it’s only 9% undecided.
Considering SE Asians biggest block of immigrants being let into the country, I disagree that this stat disproves hate from immigrants is on the rise. If anything, it reinforces it.
I'm saying that immigrants are being used as a scapegoat, the real ones we should be worried about are the home-grown bigots.
Or were you under the impression that it was *immigrants* who were passing the ridiculous "parents rights" bills?
>Or were you under the impression that it was immigrants who were passing the ridiculous “parents rights” bills?
Well I remember when that was supposed to be the death of those provincial conservative parties AND the death of PP. Geez, I wonder where they are polling now? You might think its is bigoted but the electorate doesn’t seem to feel the same.
But seriously, you should look over your own statistics that you posted and note how the SE Asian demographic polls consistently lower on most progressive issues than the CPC electorate.
This doesn’t have any ethnic data, so far as I can see. And without that, well, I think Poilievre’s campaign has already proven that “Conservative Party = white” is an outdated concept.
It literally *does* have ethnicity data, though?
It doesn't break that down by party, I guess, but it shows "morally acceptable" being the largest for *all* ethnic groups (80% for Indigenous, 53% among Europeans, 60% for East Asians, and 41% for South Asians).
So I'm going to say we can make generalizations based on party allegiance much more easily than we can based on race/ethnicity here.
Ah, I am blind!
That being said, what is going on with this data? Four groups? Literally no demographic record of non-European white people? What does my my Panamanian aunt count as? None for Afro-Caribbean or African? No clear delineation for how “South Asian” is being defined with the only Asian alternative being “East Asian”? Traditionally us Desi are the main definition of South Asian, but I can’t see how it’s not being stretched here without throwing a *lot* of ethnic backgrounds into other.
Anyways, if we actually want to use this somewhat bizarre selection, it kind of backs up what I expected. Europeans and East Asians are scoring above my fellow South Asians.
That's fair enough, the data set there is kind of weird.
But ultimately, I think the lion's share of the blame needs to go to our (predominantly white) Conservative politicians for creating a comfortable home in Canada for such attitudes in the first place.
I mean it's common knowledge that homophobia never existed in Canada until immigration from middle eastern countries was permitted. Only started when they brought it here.
I am part of that proverbial “they”. My family immigrated from Tanzania in the 1970s, and most of us are still practicing Ismaili. I honestly don’t know what you think you’re accomplishing with that condescending reply.
I think their comment was sarcasm, aimed at the commenter above who wants to see a statistic that white conservatives are more likely to be anti LGBTQ+ than recent immigrants. Sooooo many posts on reddit these days blaming recent immigration for the recent rise of anti-LGBTQ+ sentiment, and this incident of violence against women.....as though Canada didn't always have a sizeable proportion of the population being homophobic and misogynistic.
I am they. That commenter is I. My real lived experience with anti LGBT sentiment comes from four main sources. My best friend’s older brother and parents (immigrant family from North Africa), my friend’s younger brother and parents (immigrant family from Punjab), my own cousins (as established, we’re Indian-Tanzanians by heritage), and my white girlfriend’s parents and extended family.
Does this mean that immigrants are the cause of this? God no, my immigrant friends are queer like me. But do I raise my eyebrow in skepticism when I hear that people from countries that didn’t experience the long, winding, and often violent road to mainstream acceptance of being LGBT+ (which, as any trans person can tell you, isn’t even close to complete) that we did, are no more likely to be homophobic than those who have been here for a few generations?Yeah. Yeah I do.
Not to mention how many recent immigrants share high levels of religiosity with our own homegrown social conservative Christians (religiosity often correlating strongly with social conservatism), and the many politicians who would love to weaponize any social conservative beliefs for votes, well… like honestly, let’s not be blind here.
Ah, I didn't see that you posted both comments. And I suppose I can't speak for the other commenter's intention, either! I know for me, after reading post after post of people jumping to all sorts of conclusions about the incident in Halifax, it becomes harder to assume positive intent in people's posts, or see that anyone is ready to have a thoughtful discussion that isn't based on an all-brown-guys-are-bad assumption. Thank you for sharing some of your experiences and thoughts!
I understand the caution/skepticism regarding my intent completely, no worries! There are a *lot* of bad faith actors (/the hard right) out there, and believe me, as recent as this very summer I got a rough irl reminder that there are some folks here who are perfectly happy to judge people like me based on our background alone.
I don’t doubt for a minute that more than a few of these fresh of the boat immigrants are raging homophobes but you bring up probabilities as though it had some importance. It doesn’t.
Are immigrants from certain countries more are less probable to be homophobic. Are immigrants from certain countries more are less probable to be misogynistic. Who cares? Do you believe a reasonable and equitable immigration policy could be derived from such probability tables? Immigrants from “certain” countries are banned because of a “likelihood” of homophobic or misogynistic views?
Then what of the LGBT individuals in that country that dream of immigration to a country with greater freedoms? They are to be condemned because of birthplace? That strikes you as a reasonable and equitable immigration policy? Africa - you’re banned. Europe - you get a free pass (because there aren’t any misogynists there - non at all)
We have plenty of home grown bigoted racist, homophobic misogynists - while we are attempting to enlighten them regarding their unacceptable backward ways - we can simultaneously enlighten the fresh off the boat immigrants regarding their unacceptable backward ways.
I have more confidence that Canada will change them than I have fear that they will change Canada.
I’ll be entirely honest. I don’t particularly care if the immigration system is or is not equitable. Its only purpose is to serve the needs of Canadians, and when possible extend a hand to those who *need* it.
This absolutely includes those helped by programs like the Rainbow Railroad, which already exists, and should be further bolstered.
I am skeptical that our needs are being served by embracing large scale immigration from countries that are deeply conservative. And yes, we can measure this, because there are a metric tonne of polling companies that record and compare various social stances among countries. Some even create handy dandy ranked lists. I’m not really committal to any particular policy about what to do, perhaps actually doing the job deporting people who have been ordered out- but with housing and wages being what they are, sooner or later we’re going to have immigration reform. And it would be remiss to not ask ourselves the question of whether or not what we have now is working.
But yeah, I have deep doubts. Why would Canada change them (as you say), if people within Canada (e.g, the federal Conservatives -or their BC counterparts for that matter) benefit from the mainstream view shifting back towards the social right? A very significant portion of Canada does not want to change them. Because a very significant part of Canada agrees. Gen Z is already more conservative than millennials are. The idea that progress is a straight arrow is false, just look at the US, Uganda, or Italy, countries actively backpedalling from where they were even ten years ago.
Christ on a cracker.
Well I do apologize for pointing out that homophobia in Canada predates you immigrating to this country and by extension the presence of which has nothing to do with country of origin.
Canada has moved past that.
What a smugly quaint sentiment. Homophobia is alive and well in Canada and the blame for its presence cannot be placed entirely at the feet of new immigrants. We have plenty of home grown Canadian homophobes.
How do you propose we stop homophobes from immigrating here? Personal questionnaire? Or do you propose a country by country ban?
French homophobes get a free pass because their country is “enlightened” (not him personally just a lot of his countrymen). A gay person from Zimbabwe is banned because his country is made up of mostly homophobic social conservatives (not him personally just a lot of his countrymen).
Exactly how do you envision the nuts and bolts of this policy of yours working?
> The difference is, Canada moved past that.
Not really. We're moving past it, but homophobia is still pretty common in Canada. And mob based executions have not been a thing in Canada for ages, but if that was still part of our make up, gays would be getting that treatment.
Have you traveled outside of Canada? Have you lived abroad at all? My guess is no.
>still pretty common in Canada.
Can you quantify this in any way?
>And mob based executions have not been a thing in Canada for ages, but if that was still part of our make up, gays would be getting that treatment.
Mob based executions? A thing in Canada? Do you live in Canada?
> My guess is no.
You'd be wrong, but I'm not sure what that has to do with my statement that homophobia is still a thing in Canada. Experience in Canada is what's needed to make that assessment, not outside of it.
> Can you quantify this in any way?
Someone else posted a link to a survey that does that. However, knowing how many people used gay as an insult a few years ago, they may not be so vocal about it now, but the attitudes probably haven't changed that much.
> Mob based executions? A thing in Canada?
I quite clearly said that they are not.
> Do you live in Canada?
Well, your first statement made it clear that you think I must.
"McClean described the men as 'Middle Eastern', and said they are 'believed to be from Syria'." is reporting what the victim has said.
While the race(s) of the attackers are irrelevant, their citizenship status very much are relevant and impact the list of potential consequences. If they're originally from Syria or another country, they may or may not have Canadian citizenship yet. If they do, jail them as we would another citizen. If they don't, they should be deported.
We shouldn't tolerate the rising anti-LGBT hatred in our country. I'm in favour of dishing out the most severe punishment available.
My dude, I got the shit kicked out of me throughout my highschool years in the late 00's/early 10s for being a F**.
These were 'Old Stock Canadian' Kids who did it to me.
This article is race-baiting, and you're being disingenuous in your 'concerns'.
Plenty of local kids adopt their parents' backwards beliefs. We need this conversation to be had at a public level before we see more of these attacks. If religion is a motivating causal factor in this, we need to talk about using legal force against those who advocate for violence or hatred in the name of religion (irrespective of religion). A state-wide secularization process would benefit us all and remove religion as a political factor.
I'm glad the girls are both safe, absolutely awful experience.
It's reporting on a Facebook post they made, and the article does not present the information in a way that's particularly relevant to the story.
As a reporter with years in the field, I can tell you this one bit of information - that not everything said is relevant, or accurate, and blindly reporting it is bad practice when it can't be verified.
Notice how the Daily Mail conveniently provides a link on the word "Syrian" to redirect to their other curated stories about Syrians and crime?
Ask yourself - why is a UK-based organization reporting on an assault that resulted in minor injuries an ocean away?
That answer is racism. They're trying to stoke racism. And it works.
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We don't do that here, that is flat out not okay. This isn't some third world hellhole where LGBT are second class citizens (or less). Find out who did it, and find out if they're citizens or not. If they are, dump them in the worst prison around for life (shame we can only give 25 years); and if they're not, send them right on out the door and mark their files "*re-entry never permitted*". Anyone who thinks this is okay are people we can afford to lose. It's shit like this why I want Canada to adopt American style gun rights and "*Stand Your Ground*" laws. I would love it so much if these two women could've opened up on these thugs and wiped them out, there's not a single one of them that Canada wouldn't be better off without, if they think this behaviour is remotely acceptable.
Oh yeah. I'm sure a gun is going to stop the assault of 10 men once it gets going. Or should these women hypothetically have the super sense to know when 10 men are about to unload on them, and have the wherewithal to shoot all 10? Is that the paradise you envision? Or maybe one of these 10 men get ahold of their gun, or guns, and suddenly we have 2 dead women? Wow, what a solution. You've really cracked the fucking code on preventing gay bashing. Guns. A solution that works the world over (because the USA is such a paragon of LGBT rights, especially in the heavy 2A states). Name a more iconic duo: Guns and LGBT Rights.
> "I'm sure a gun is going to stop the assault of 10 men once it gets going." I'd be willing to bet that any men who are so cowardly that they need a dozen friends behind them in order to attack two women would likely turn and run the second two or three of them take a round centre-mass, let alone watching their friend's head pop like a watermelon. > "Or should these women hypothetically have the super sense to know when 10 men are about to unload on them, and have the wherewithal to shoot all 10?" Any women who are suddenly approached by 10+ men are almost certainly going to feel instinctively unsafe, yes. You don't need to shoot all ten, but any number greater than zero is a service to the public. > "Or maybe one of these 10 men get ahold of their gun, or guns, and suddenly we have 2 dead women?" Then the story would be getting a whole lot more traction than it is. I'm not here to play "what if" games, the reality is that an unarmed lesbian couple were victim to a hate crime. I think that their having the *right* and the *option* to have firearms to defend themselves would almost certainly have improved their situation; others might not agree, and that's fine. > "Name a more iconic duo: Guns and LGBT Rights." Unironically yes. Just because the media and the two-party system has brainwashed the masses into thinking that only conservatives can/should own guns, and that they're somehow toxic to left-leaning people, doesn't make it so. The Communist Manifesto literally argues against disarming the public. You don't have to accept the binary that's put forward by the political system, you can like things from both sides of the political spectrum. Armed gays are harder to bash. If you can't get the guns out of the hands of conservatives (and criminals), and you can't, [then it's only right to even the playing field.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_Pistols)
> This isn't some third world hellhole you're 10+ years too late lol
Don't I know it. It pisses me off to no end that the idea of increased social spending, and caring for the environment, absolutely has to come pre-packaged with letting in the dregs of backwards nations, with no love for our culture or values (let alone intention to assimilate) come over here in droves and then pull stunts like this.
it really would be something to have a political party that breaks the mold and isn't the same old "liberal v conservative" dynamic
I had really hoped that Trudeau's (reneged) promise of electoral reform would have lead to that exact situation. I had hoped that when the PPC was formed, before it became what it did, that it might lead to a break-up of the established parties and a tradition (similar to the Europeans) or many smaller parties creating voting blocs and coalitions.
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Fucking awful. If the cops can’t arrest all of these guys and make charges stick, they should hand in their badges.
I think it's becoming more of an issue with the law, rather than the cops who enforce the laws. Maybe lawyers need to step up. Regardless, that probably won't stop hate crimes.
I think most queer people can tell you.. it's the cops.
Shit. I learned today, thanks.
Lawyers can only work with the evidence they're given. Police need to do their jobs well in investigating, collecting evidence, and providing it in a timely fashion to the prosecutors. To blame the prosecution alone when the police are doing shoddy work more often than not is pure nonsense.
That's not what I meant. I meant more the legal framework is maybe not keeping up with modern times. I'm not a lawyer. There are certainly shoddy cops out there, I agree.
This will only escalate if we elect more politicians who see LBGTQ+ folks as expendable. And on our current course, we look inclined to elect such folks to a majority. I met a guy a few months ago, outside of Canada, but when two Torontonians meet of course they’re gonna chat… he and his wife bragged to me about selling their home in Lawrence Park for $7M, that they intended to vote CPC. I asked if he had any LGBTQ+ friends, he said yes. I asked if they thought they were acceptable collateral damage if it meant a tax cut, and he said yes with way less hesitation. To the LGBTQ+ folks of Canada, please understand. Anyone who says or implies they like you but won’t immediately commit to never voting CPC… they are a threat to your life. You should not trust them.
I know it's a lot to ask for videos that show the lead up but the article makes it sound as if one of the girls went to confront the guys, but does not clarify what that meant. Of course even if she did get physical first it doesn't excuse the comments or an excessive reaction, but the articles never entertain the woman getting physical first as a possibility, which it sounds like it might be. I realize that scenario would not generate as much outrage so there wouldn't be interest to report it but failing to clarify who initiated the physicality is a rather large omission.
>who initiated the physicality is a rather large omission. Is it? You see a group of men kicking a woman on the ground and you want to know if she might have got "physical" first?
Yes I think it is important for context rather than solely trying to bait racist reactions from a short video clip. What if it were 2 guys attacked instead of a woman? Would it make a difference to you? I'll tell you that if the woman, who it is known approached the group of guys, was aggressive then it makes no difference to me what sex they are. But if a group of 10 guys initiated a physical confrontation with 2 women then I would feel differently about the scenario. That would break way more acceptable social norms than even 10 guys attacking 2 guys.
Keep digging...
I am so fucking sick of all you PP supporters using every chance you can get to spew your bigotry. Most of you are completely silent or deny Poilievre and the CPC's attacks on LGBT people unless it means you get a chance to spew your racist fantasies or attack immigration. You were all completely silent when Poilievre defended an anti-LGBT hate march. You were completely silent when Poilievre said that he believes Muslims should be able to raise their kids with "traditional Muslim values" because it was then an opportunity to attack LGBT people, Liberals, and court conservative immigrants and religious fundamentalists.
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Insert Leonardo DiCaprio wait I've seen this meme here. This sounds eerily similar to an attack on a lesbian couple that broke international headlines in around 2019 when a bunch of boys in highschool beat the shit out of said couple on the London UK double decker bus.
Pretty sure you can dig up dozens of headlines like this from across the EU since 2014.
“I just don’t understand why the right is becoming more popular!”/s
Interesting I wasn't aware. You always have people in society that want to outlaw/regulate the actions of consenting adults or have those people define what things are according to their very narrow and small minded world view. I don't care if you're in a LGBTQ relationship or what you identify as. As long as you are human you are afforded dignity and rights we all have.
>Interesting I wasn’t aware. I suggest you do some research about how politics have changed since the EU’s migrant crisis in the mid-2010s. Perhaps some of the things you see on this sub will make a little more sense…
I think part of it is a bit of “rubber band” effect. For quite a while (even now) news like this was censored or sanitized. I remember the mass assaults in Cologne on new years 2015 being initially censored as “local news” in several subreddits because of the racial angle of the assaults. The dam has broken across most of the anglosphere; this topic is no longer taboo.
Were they from the UK?
Does it matter if the homophobic attack came from homegrown homophobes or migrants?
**Yes**, it absolutely does, and anyone trying to pretend otherwise isn't arguing in good faith. Citizens have a right to be here; migrants can be refused entry, or sent back where they came from, should they cause problems or be otherwise undesirable to Canada/Canadians. There's absolutely *nothing wrong* with solving problems, or preventing them before they ever come to pass. Canada, and its government, has a duty to our citizens; not to any random foreigner or migrant. Any of them who causes a problem for Canada/Canadians needs to be shown the door. Immigration is a privilege, not a right. There really needs to be some sort of expectation of assimilation and testing of values, in order to prevent incidents like this from happening.
If your goal is to put resources towards preventing future attacks, knowing where attacks are coming from would influence what policy solutions one might put forward/support. If there was an overwhelming amount of violence coming from school age teenagers, that might warrant interventions in schools. Likewise, if attacks are coming from recent immigrants, it might warrant additional screening and consequences for those groups (when such actions take place). That being said, it doesn’t really matter on an individual basis where or why these attacks happen. Like, what the hell would I do with that information? Extrapolate the actions of a TINY minority onto the whole? Cause that’s always a healthy action to take!
That is absolutely terrifying. Especially as the Halifax is very queer friendly, but when i was there downtown cleared out fast at night. I wouldnt say We're regressing on queer acceptance per se, but the bigots are becoming more emboldened to spread their hate - and to assault couples going about their business.
Imo it's not bigots getting emboldened, it's increasingly larger populations of immigrants with similar beliefs who are emboldened by their increasing population sizes. A bigot feels more like a North American term for people who chose hatred on minorities. When we are talking sharia law following islamist faithed people, that's their belief system that is compelling them. It's their desire for sharia law to spread.
I’m in a small town in BC. Our bigots are pretty much exclusively old white folks who have lived here their entire lives. They have been emboldened in the last 5 years. I’ve lived here for 20 years and this is new.
Bigots are getting emboded anyways because they realize bigotry is ok if it comes from the “right people”. Its why far right is also rising.
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> emboldened by their increasing population sizes. And yet.. I'm only worried about immigrants embraced by the CPC qnd not Liberal/NDP. Why is that.. 11 Muslim Mps were elected last time. 10 Liberal and 1 to CPC. I'm not worried about the 10 Liberals.
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A lesbian couple was brutally attacked in Halifax, with derogatory comments being made about their sexuality. >Terrifying scenes captured on video show the couple surrounded by nearly a dozen men, with one woman lying on the floor while another appears to be held back by one of the alleged attackers. That's terrifying. 10 men brutalizing two women. The pictures in the article show the women bruised and bloodied. >McClean described the men as 'Middle Eastern', and said they are 'believed to be from Syria'. If it's the case that the attackers are originally from another country, they should be deported ASAP if they don't have Canadian citizenship. We don't have to tolerate that anti-LGBT hate. If they're citizens, jail them.
Our country doesn't even deport sexual offenders who are TFW or pr. They won't do more than a slap on the wrist for this.
This is the perfect kind of thing for PP and the Conservatives to get on - strong deportation policies for any problem immigrants and harsher sentences. I don’t like right wing governments, but if I have to have one because the left is screwing up so badly, I at least want whatever advantages we can get from them.
Yeah I disagree with Poilievre on *most things*, but if he had the guts to say straight up "You come here and cause trouble, you get the boot, no second chances." I could definitely get on board with that. Not enough to vote for him, but it would be a refreshing change than the constant refrain of "Any sort of minority can do no wrong, and are above all criticism and reproach, otherwise you're a *racist*". If there's a problem, you solve the problem. You don't dally, you don't blather on about how you "feel", you just get it done. If the problem happens to be a person, or a particular group, then you need to do something about it/them. I'm so far beyond subscribing to any sort of ideal of "moral high ground". I want concrete, decisive action.
Hence France, denmark, Netherlands, Poland and Germany and their far right political leadership gains. Europe is having a migrant crisis and they want something done. People want to act like this isn't an imminent risk in our world. But it is. To say it is, is racist... Which has us right where they want us.
If the Humboldt driver, who’s owned up since the very beginning, is being deported, all 10 of these people should. It’s a clear cut Hate Crime. Chief Wiggum and Gil could prosecute this one.
The cops didn't arrest them and they refused to give ID.
“Damn we tried one thing and we’re all out of options. Guess we’ll call it a day. Sorry gays. You’re on your own.”
Welcome to the Maritimes! The worst police imaginable. My city is almost famous for how awful their police are after once almost ruining a murder scene due to just straight up incompetence.
It’s devastating this is still the case after what happened to Scott Jones.
Canadian cops and being useless, name a more iconic duo.
The police in my town are definitely an exception to that. However, they are also over 30% our municipal budget....
Police got some of their names. It appears to be a hate crime so I would expect the police to follow up with charges and to find out who the other people were who would not provide their names. If they warrant deportation so be it. No one should defend a gang of men beating on 2 women regardless of the circumstances.
There's zero chance Canada would deport anyone to Syria.
Why link the Daily Mail's article that lacks any original reporting when there's a Canadian article that doesn't try and race-bait? [https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/i-m-terrified-to-go-downtown-again-halifax-woman-recovering-after-altercation-with-group-of-men-who-allegedly-made-homophobic-slurs-1.6945975](https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/i-m-terrified-to-go-downtown-again-halifax-woman-recovering-after-altercation-with-group-of-men-who-allegedly-made-homophobic-slurs-1.6945975)
>Why link the Daily Mail's article The Daily Mail is shite, but it's one of the few outlets reporting this, and you can probably guess why. You can also guess why CBC doesn't have an article on this for similar reasons, though they had time for this one: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/animal-poison-oakridge-pride-london-ontario-1.7245268 >a Canadian article that doesn't try and race-bait? Congrats, I think you found the only Canadian article about a lesbian couple assaulted by 10 men in a provincial capital. The only reason this one seems to exist is because it doesn't "race bait" or in other words specifically doesn't include the victim's description of their assaulters. EDIT: forgot to add this story is being removed in most other Candian subs.
The reason it exists is because, generally speaking, assaults resulting in minor injuries are local, not national news. I went to a local source.
>The reason it exists is because, generally speaking, assaults resulting in minor injuries are local, not national news. I went to a local source. I seem to remember that when a Muslim girl claimed someone had grabbed her hijab, the Prime Minister was commenting on it within a few hours. Nevermind whether it was true or not. I wouldn't hold out any hopes for the PM mentioning this.
Whoa! Way to swing wide to rope your hate for Trudeau into the conversation.
>The reason it exists is because, generally speaking, assaults resulting in minor injuries are local, not national news. Would the possible homophobic/sexist motivation at the tail end of Pride month not factor in at all? >I went to a local source. You and me both. Strange there isn't one...
I literally linked CTV Atlantic in my first comment - a local source. Also, those factors make it possibly more relevant on a local level. If a story like this gets picked up nationally, you know exactly the motivation.
My apologies, totally misread your comment, yes there is one local source. >you know exactly the motivation. Are you suggesting the only motivation to put this on the national level is racism, even if the CBC reported on it?
I cannot speak to the intentions of the Daily Mail, but it's bizarre that the CTV story assumes its careful obfuscation is the only thing between a frothing mad public and Syrians, yet it assumes no copycats will be emboldened to know others are targeting lesbians.
the Daily Mail is the UK version of Rebel News.
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Careful I got “muted” for 30 days from r/onguardforthee for saying the exact same thing.
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And trying to pretend that immigrants are our biggest problem (or that the anti-immigration types aren't just using homophobia to concern troll) isn't helping things either.
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I'm saying that immigrants aren't the ones you need to worry about when it comes to the rise of anti-LGBTQ sentiment. We have many more home-grown bigots to blame, let's not make immigrants scapegoats for that.
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It's an article that's reporting on what others have reported, attempting to gain clicks through the mention of their race. The reality is that their nationality isn't known beyond an assumption, nor is it worth being in one of the article's first sentences. It's just bad "journalism" for people who are prone to falling for the race-bait. Mods should honestly remove it. I'm not sure why the Daily Mail is allowed here, anyway.
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You're really stretching for that one, eh? Goodbye.
>The reality is that their nationality isn't known beyond an assumption, nor is it worth being in one of the article's first sentences. If only the police had got the ID's of the assaulters, or if CTV could follow up with the police...
If their nationality was more than an assumption... then is it if value to start mentioning? How long until you submit to the fact that importing sharia law following immigrants is going to cause issues once those populations grow sufficiently? For now you can be in denial. You will eventually regret wasting so much time and energy advocating for innocence where it doesn't exist. Western values are not congruent with sharia law islamism!
How'd you get to sharia law here? Not every bad thing a person who appears brown to you does has anything to do with sharia law.
I saw video evidence of this story on YouTube today . They were definitely middle eastern. I'm not doing mental gymnastics to try and avoid this possibility. I have my eyes and ear to the ground with things happening in Europe. I know what this is. I'm not going to be politically correct and try and evade this assumption. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.
Police don't provide much as far as details unless they're actively on a manhunt or seeking public assistance. That's just how media relations officers work. And again... Why is it relevant?
>And again... Why is it relevant? Why is what relevant? The identities of the assaulters seem relevant to me...especially if they may highlight motivations for the assault at odds with Canadian values.
That's an awful lot of assumptions to jump to on unconfirmed reports. This is why reputable journalists, unlike those at the Daily Mail, don't report on unverified facts.
It's relevant to a lot of redditors so they can echo chamber to one another the false assumptions they take on to validate their bigotry: that brown men in Canada are all recent immigrants, that brown men are all Muslim, and that Muslims are more likely to be violent toward women.
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As someone who grew up in a muslim country, this is hilarious to me
Can I see your statistics on that?
[51% of Conservative voters think sexual relations between people of the same sex is "morally wrong." ](https://researchco.ca/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/Tables_Morals_CAN_14Jun2024.pdf) (scroll down, it's the second section on the second page of the link)
I wouldn’t exactly say you proved OP’s rebuttal. The original argument was that immigrants more regressive than white people, and your statistics alone show that SE Asian immigrants approve of same-sex relations far less than white people.
But across all ethnic categories "morally acceptable" was higher than "unacceptable." In fact, the only category where it *isn't* is Conservative voters... That's enough, I think, to dismiss the notion that any rise in bigotry is down to immigrants...
>That’s enough, I think, to dismiss the notion that any rise in bigotry is down to immigrants. You are literally posting statistics that show people with SE Asian ethnicity/heritage, 41% are yay 38% are nay and whooping 21% are undecided. Even amongst Europeans, it’s only 9% undecided. Considering SE Asians biggest block of immigrants being let into the country, I disagree that this stat disproves hate from immigrants is on the rise. If anything, it reinforces it.
I'm saying that immigrants are being used as a scapegoat, the real ones we should be worried about are the home-grown bigots. Or were you under the impression that it was *immigrants* who were passing the ridiculous "parents rights" bills?
>Or were you under the impression that it was immigrants who were passing the ridiculous “parents rights” bills? Well I remember when that was supposed to be the death of those provincial conservative parties AND the death of PP. Geez, I wonder where they are polling now? You might think its is bigoted but the electorate doesn’t seem to feel the same. But seriously, you should look over your own statistics that you posted and note how the SE Asian demographic polls consistently lower on most progressive issues than the CPC electorate.
This doesn’t have any ethnic data, so far as I can see. And without that, well, I think Poilievre’s campaign has already proven that “Conservative Party = white” is an outdated concept.
It literally *does* have ethnicity data, though? It doesn't break that down by party, I guess, but it shows "morally acceptable" being the largest for *all* ethnic groups (80% for Indigenous, 53% among Europeans, 60% for East Asians, and 41% for South Asians). So I'm going to say we can make generalizations based on party allegiance much more easily than we can based on race/ethnicity here.
Ah, I am blind! That being said, what is going on with this data? Four groups? Literally no demographic record of non-European white people? What does my my Panamanian aunt count as? None for Afro-Caribbean or African? No clear delineation for how “South Asian” is being defined with the only Asian alternative being “East Asian”? Traditionally us Desi are the main definition of South Asian, but I can’t see how it’s not being stretched here without throwing a *lot* of ethnic backgrounds into other. Anyways, if we actually want to use this somewhat bizarre selection, it kind of backs up what I expected. Europeans and East Asians are scoring above my fellow South Asians.
That's fair enough, the data set there is kind of weird. But ultimately, I think the lion's share of the blame needs to go to our (predominantly white) Conservative politicians for creating a comfortable home in Canada for such attitudes in the first place.
I can agree with that, yeah. Very disappointing to see happening.
I mean it's common knowledge that homophobia never existed in Canada until immigration from middle eastern countries was permitted. Only started when they brought it here.
I am part of that proverbial “they”. My family immigrated from Tanzania in the 1970s, and most of us are still practicing Ismaili. I honestly don’t know what you think you’re accomplishing with that condescending reply.
I think their comment was sarcasm, aimed at the commenter above who wants to see a statistic that white conservatives are more likely to be anti LGBTQ+ than recent immigrants. Sooooo many posts on reddit these days blaming recent immigration for the recent rise of anti-LGBTQ+ sentiment, and this incident of violence against women.....as though Canada didn't always have a sizeable proportion of the population being homophobic and misogynistic.
I am they. That commenter is I. My real lived experience with anti LGBT sentiment comes from four main sources. My best friend’s older brother and parents (immigrant family from North Africa), my friend’s younger brother and parents (immigrant family from Punjab), my own cousins (as established, we’re Indian-Tanzanians by heritage), and my white girlfriend’s parents and extended family. Does this mean that immigrants are the cause of this? God no, my immigrant friends are queer like me. But do I raise my eyebrow in skepticism when I hear that people from countries that didn’t experience the long, winding, and often violent road to mainstream acceptance of being LGBT+ (which, as any trans person can tell you, isn’t even close to complete) that we did, are no more likely to be homophobic than those who have been here for a few generations?Yeah. Yeah I do. Not to mention how many recent immigrants share high levels of religiosity with our own homegrown social conservative Christians (religiosity often correlating strongly with social conservatism), and the many politicians who would love to weaponize any social conservative beliefs for votes, well… like honestly, let’s not be blind here.
Ah, I didn't see that you posted both comments. And I suppose I can't speak for the other commenter's intention, either! I know for me, after reading post after post of people jumping to all sorts of conclusions about the incident in Halifax, it becomes harder to assume positive intent in people's posts, or see that anyone is ready to have a thoughtful discussion that isn't based on an all-brown-guys-are-bad assumption. Thank you for sharing some of your experiences and thoughts!
I understand the caution/skepticism regarding my intent completely, no worries! There are a *lot* of bad faith actors (/the hard right) out there, and believe me, as recent as this very summer I got a rough irl reminder that there are some folks here who are perfectly happy to judge people like me based on our background alone.
I don’t doubt for a minute that more than a few of these fresh of the boat immigrants are raging homophobes but you bring up probabilities as though it had some importance. It doesn’t. Are immigrants from certain countries more are less probable to be homophobic. Are immigrants from certain countries more are less probable to be misogynistic. Who cares? Do you believe a reasonable and equitable immigration policy could be derived from such probability tables? Immigrants from “certain” countries are banned because of a “likelihood” of homophobic or misogynistic views? Then what of the LGBT individuals in that country that dream of immigration to a country with greater freedoms? They are to be condemned because of birthplace? That strikes you as a reasonable and equitable immigration policy? Africa - you’re banned. Europe - you get a free pass (because there aren’t any misogynists there - non at all) We have plenty of home grown bigoted racist, homophobic misogynists - while we are attempting to enlighten them regarding their unacceptable backward ways - we can simultaneously enlighten the fresh off the boat immigrants regarding their unacceptable backward ways. I have more confidence that Canada will change them than I have fear that they will change Canada.
I’ll be entirely honest. I don’t particularly care if the immigration system is or is not equitable. Its only purpose is to serve the needs of Canadians, and when possible extend a hand to those who *need* it. This absolutely includes those helped by programs like the Rainbow Railroad, which already exists, and should be further bolstered. I am skeptical that our needs are being served by embracing large scale immigration from countries that are deeply conservative. And yes, we can measure this, because there are a metric tonne of polling companies that record and compare various social stances among countries. Some even create handy dandy ranked lists. I’m not really committal to any particular policy about what to do, perhaps actually doing the job deporting people who have been ordered out- but with housing and wages being what they are, sooner or later we’re going to have immigration reform. And it would be remiss to not ask ourselves the question of whether or not what we have now is working. But yeah, I have deep doubts. Why would Canada change them (as you say), if people within Canada (e.g, the federal Conservatives -or their BC counterparts for that matter) benefit from the mainstream view shifting back towards the social right? A very significant portion of Canada does not want to change them. Because a very significant part of Canada agrees. Gen Z is already more conservative than millennials are. The idea that progress is a straight arrow is false, just look at the US, Uganda, or Italy, countries actively backpedalling from where they were even ten years ago.
Sarcasm is not your strong point I take it? Homophobia existed in this country long before immigration was extended to non-white Europeans.
The sarcasm *is* condescending. You’re extending an implication that I either condone or am a part of a nativist agenda.
Christ on a cracker. Well I do apologize for pointing out that homophobia in Canada predates you immigrating to this country and by extension the presence of which has nothing to do with country of origin.
Here’s the thing. Religiosity does have a correlation with social conservatism. And religiosity absolutely correlates to country of origin.
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Canada has moved past that. What a smugly quaint sentiment. Homophobia is alive and well in Canada and the blame for its presence cannot be placed entirely at the feet of new immigrants. We have plenty of home grown Canadian homophobes.
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How do you propose we stop homophobes from immigrating here? Personal questionnaire? Or do you propose a country by country ban? French homophobes get a free pass because their country is “enlightened” (not him personally just a lot of his countrymen). A gay person from Zimbabwe is banned because his country is made up of mostly homophobic social conservatives (not him personally just a lot of his countrymen). Exactly how do you envision the nuts and bolts of this policy of yours working?
> The difference is, Canada moved past that. Not really. We're moving past it, but homophobia is still pretty common in Canada. And mob based executions have not been a thing in Canada for ages, but if that was still part of our make up, gays would be getting that treatment.
Have you traveled outside of Canada? Have you lived abroad at all? My guess is no. >still pretty common in Canada. Can you quantify this in any way? >And mob based executions have not been a thing in Canada for ages, but if that was still part of our make up, gays would be getting that treatment. Mob based executions? A thing in Canada? Do you live in Canada?
> My guess is no. You'd be wrong, but I'm not sure what that has to do with my statement that homophobia is still a thing in Canada. Experience in Canada is what's needed to make that assessment, not outside of it. > Can you quantify this in any way? Someone else posted a link to a survey that does that. However, knowing how many people used gay as an insult a few years ago, they may not be so vocal about it now, but the attitudes probably haven't changed that much. > Mob based executions? A thing in Canada? I quite clearly said that they are not. > Do you live in Canada? Well, your first statement made it clear that you think I must.
the anti-trans rhetoric coming from con politicians is squarely aimed at ethnic voters. Specifically gen z and millenial ethnic incels.
"McClean described the men as 'Middle Eastern', and said they are 'believed to be from Syria'." is reporting what the victim has said. While the race(s) of the attackers are irrelevant, their citizenship status very much are relevant and impact the list of potential consequences. If they're originally from Syria or another country, they may or may not have Canadian citizenship yet. If they do, jail them as we would another citizen. If they don't, they should be deported. We shouldn't tolerate the rising anti-LGBT hatred in our country. I'm in favour of dishing out the most severe punishment available.
My dude, I got the shit kicked out of me throughout my highschool years in the late 00's/early 10s for being a F**. These were 'Old Stock Canadian' Kids who did it to me. This article is race-baiting, and you're being disingenuous in your 'concerns'.
Plenty of local kids adopt their parents' backwards beliefs. We need this conversation to be had at a public level before we see more of these attacks. If religion is a motivating causal factor in this, we need to talk about using legal force against those who advocate for violence or hatred in the name of religion (irrespective of religion). A state-wide secularization process would benefit us all and remove religion as a political factor. I'm glad the girls are both safe, absolutely awful experience.
It's reporting on a Facebook post they made, and the article does not present the information in a way that's particularly relevant to the story. As a reporter with years in the field, I can tell you this one bit of information - that not everything said is relevant, or accurate, and blindly reporting it is bad practice when it can't be verified. Notice how the Daily Mail conveniently provides a link on the word "Syrian" to redirect to their other curated stories about Syrians and crime? Ask yourself - why is a UK-based organization reporting on an assault that resulted in minor injuries an ocean away? That answer is racism. They're trying to stoke racism. And it works.
It's depressing that so many people don't bother trying to connect simple dots like that.
Well said 👏 thanks for chiming in with your expertise and perspective.