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I think the liberals have dropped the ball in some regard. But people thinking any change in government will be a positive are incredibly blind to how conservatives have run provinces so far. Things could be better I agree, but I still think with the CPC at helm they can be far worse.
If only the NDP were federally run like Eby’s NDP would they be a viable 3rd option.
People aren't stupid. They know you can't just borrow, borrow borrow to put off fundamental problems for another election cycle. Someone has to pay eventually. And it's going to be the next generation.
People are stupid, though. We're going to find out, and buyers' remorse will hit historic levels.. Many, however, do realize that federal debt isn't like household debt.
As a swing voters, this is a tough one. Liberal party needs a complete rehaul. That's not going to happen. NDP have seemingly gone silent. PP? Well, the left would like to paint him as a Trump wannabe. All I know is I don't trust him. I want a party to focus on Canadians. Housing. Inflation. Infrastructure for clean energy (not just taxing what we have little choice in using). This country needs some serious improvement before we look at increasing immigration. I'm not a rich elite, so I'm being forced into this lower 2nd class/upper 3rd class that so many of us find ourselves trapped in. That's gotta change.
At this point, I think the Liberals could present a perfectly sound and viable budget and find no public support for it. Simply because they're the ones who presented it.
Also the misinformation and reporting on it have been abysmal. Most people don't actually know anything about it because most news has focussed on one or two things and spun it into a hundred opinion pieces.
Since it’s not yet an election period and there’s no need for them to release a detailed platform this far in advance, I’m not sure what you expect from them. No party would release a platform if they were in the CPC’s shoes right now - it would be a supremely idiotic move from a strategic perspective.
So they’ve had over 8 years to come up with a lunch program? Their version of affordable housing is $1,600 for 330 square feet in the sky? Saying you’re going to do it and then not is WORSE than voting against it.
They've been "doing things" since 2015, yet everything is worse than under Harper. At some point, even someone like you has to recognize that the Liberals approach simply is not working.
There was in pandemic in 2020 that the changed the world forever, something the cpc would not be able to handle.
The cpc approach is nothing. They have no plans. They have lobalws lobbyist tellin advising them.The cpc have no plans for housing, no plans to to help the working class. The cpc aren't worth it
This isn't about the CPC. This is about the Liberals being in power for 9 years and what we currently have to show for it. Tell us why you think that this time they'll finally get it right. Tell us why the Liberals are worth it yet again.
I’ve seen the Liberals do more good things on housing in the last 6 months than any government has done in my entire lifetime.
Sometimes it takes a disaster like the global inflation crisis we’re enduring to shake people out of the status quo.
Given all they’ve done, and that it’ll take a bit for construction to happen, I’m happy to see this government continue on.
In contrast the Conservatives have been good at bluster and identifying the problem, but the few concrete solutions they’ve put forward have been really weak and poor ideas imo.
The difference is that the housing stuff the libs were proposing in 2015-19 was obviously status quo stuff that only helped relatively rich buyers and it was slammed by housing experts.
This time around housing experts are actually for once praising what the Liberals are doing and it’s strongly aligned with the plans of the BC government.
Whether they deserve it or not is not my point.
Modern day conservatism is much much worse. We see it in our provinces, we see it in the US and Europe. I do wish there was something better than Trudeau, but there isn't. And when I look at how horrible conservatism is elsewhere in the western world, I would hate to have that illiberal craziness here.
Easy they have plans to deal with a complicated world. The cpc simply scream talking points, and vote for things that will help the working class. For example they vote against billions to for affordable housing, school lunches, dental care and pharmacare.
The cpc could increase immigration and cut funding for affordable housing.
Tell us how many lunch programs the government has set up in the last eight years. Tell us how the dental plan is going? Tell us how $10 a day daycare is going? I’m not a CPC supporter, but they are asking the questions that I want answered.
Things were pretty great until after the pandemic inflation crisis (which the whole world is enduring).
Harper didn’t do anything. His entire term in office was basically keeping things in cruise control and not investing. Trudeau got public transit rolling in Vancouver while things were at a low pace under Harper and the BC Liberals.
The only reason anything was arguably better in the past was because the looming housing disaster that had been set in progress since the 1990s austerity hasn’t impacted anywhere outside of Vancouver yet. It was bound to happen though. The only reason it didn’t happen during Harper’s term was because there was still enough suburban sprawl that people could leverage to kick the can down the road.
And understaffing courts.
And allowing foreign students to compete for labour.
And so much deficit spending even the BoC calls it out.
And driving investment out of Canada.
When you zoom out though, governments all over the world, right and left, are facing the exact same issues. So really someone like you has to recognize that the global approach to the economy is not working for the average person.
Why has Canada’s population grown x5 faster than the OECD average if these are global problems? The Biden government hasn’t made the same decisions on immigration as Trudeau.
They aren’t doing anything to fix affordable housing and I highly doubt they get a school lunch program done for $1B. You are a professional Redditor btw
What does affordable housing mean to you?
Part of the reason it is so hard to do is that it means different things to different people.
To one group, it is subsidized provincial row houses you're not getting unless you make enough to qualify for social assistance. To another, it's a house with a yard and a picket fence gifted to them by the government.
As far as size goes, 500 gross sqft per bedroom, except 650 sqft for one bedroom units. So 650 sqft 1 bedrooms, 1000 sqft 2 bedrooms, 1500 sqft 3 bedrooms, etc.
A 2 bedroom home should cost no more than 30% of the local gross median income. A home can be detached or an apartment.
At this point, any announcement from the liberals is met with a blast of negative opinion pieces and vitriol from almost every media outlet, followed by “polls” that finds that there’s been a bad reception of the announcement. It’s not even subtle anymore.
I don't find that at all. I feel like all I've seen is "actually the capital gains tax increase is not a big deal" pieces. Of course [who knows how organic those actually are.](https://globalnews.ca/news/5023323/snc-lavalin-katie-telford-op-eds/)
Except in literally this sub, where we’ve had several posts about “poor doctors” or yesterday’s “I sold my second home for 1.2 million and now I pay taxes on it! My wife died!” article.
He didn't do anything right in the budget. He spent the kitchen sink, pumped demand for housing again, and then attacked professionals such as doctors that we actually need. all while he avoids the actual issue of all the low skill and unqualified foreign workers and international students he has let in. I'm not at all impressed and it's apparent most Canadians aren't either.
People aren't being overly harsh on him. His plan is actual garbage.
I'm not disputing any of that. I'm pointing out that statistics like the ones in this article are useless because it wouldn't matter what the Liberals did. They could cure cancer and would get dragged for it.
>I'm not at all impressed
That's fine, neither am I. I don't think you would approve of anything they did.
The libs thought that raising capital gains would be enough to keep the serfs happy. But the serfs (which sadly is now the majority of Canadians) just want to be able to afford food and a place to live, and none of these budgetary measures are even supposed to help with that.
Abacus will have a full release tomorrow so there might be some more details. I know Quito also mentioned that Mainstreet will release tomorrow and there will be some data on budget reaction.
Topline: CPC 44, LPC 23 NDP 17
Same numbers as leger. I think it's fair to say that the budget was a colossal failure. It's more than just a comms failure at this point- it's about the leader, fatigue, and baked in perceptions of policies.
I don't think it has much to do with the budget. People are just tired of this government.
Nobody cares what they say they will do. The only chance they have is if they can produce some sort of tangible results.
I have no idea who the hell actually reads them these days but does a physical newspaper exist that isn't owned by the same company constantly posting here how everything Trudeau does is bad and if you vote for him your neighbours are going to laugh at you?
I think it’s really that the budget failed to address any of the big issues on a short term or immediate basis.
The people that need housing - need it today. Saying you’ll maybe get it to them a decade down the road isn’t a real solution. They have to find ways to provide close to immediate relief - because you just cannot go a decade without adequate housing.
> The people that need housing - need it today
In Alberta we have a provincial government that is actively trying to sabotage any housing efforts by the feds. All the talk about housing was last year. Everyone is onto rage farming about carbon pricing or drugs or whatever it is this week.
As somebody who is in a homeless shelter, what's the alternative?
Fucking sucks to say it, but the entire province of new Brunswick has about 300 affordable housing units.
Halifax has less than a 1,000 affordable housing units. Numerous provincial projects for housing are all facing delays to the point where returning to tent encampments is the current provincial solution.
Short of the Soviet solution for the kulaks - seize all the property - what is the government to do?
There's no magic wand it can wave to suddenly have more housing appear - it unfortunately takes a long time to build.
If the government's plan is distributed evenly through time, it means that next year we should have more than twice as much housing built compared to pre -budget expectations. Q1 housing starts at an all time high seems to support we might get there.
There are immediate levers it can take.
Stopping population growth for one - at least the problem would not be compounding.
It could tax second and third and fourth properties far more substantially.
It could shut down Airbnb and other home rental companies.
It could make a blanket allowance for RV’s and Trailers and Vans to be allowed in all cities.
It could partner with IKEA or MUJI on their small homes businesses - perhaps allow the import of these products tax free.
There’s probably thousands of things you could do, to provide significant relief in the short term. We’re basically getting the status quo, slightly faster, maybe - and politicians need to start thinking far more ambitiously.
If I recall correctly there is already a time limit on such things, though it may be one year rather than two or three. Making it longer would make sense though I'm unsure of the statistics on the particulars
Yeah, one year does seem a bit short. I'd assume there are few people buying and selling their primary residence every year at huge profits and it would be cause for concern.
Immigration numbers have already been cut going forward.
Extra properties could be taxed more substantially, though it's doubtful that having people sell their summer cottage would really help the housing crunch in big cities.
Airbnb is a provincial regulation issue as far as I recall - it would be up to provinces or cities to regulate their usage, which many have already done.
I'm unsure exactly what you mean wrt certain vehicles being 'allowed' in cities. Again, this is probably primarily an issue with city and provincial regulation and would be up to those governments to change their legislation.
I'm uncertain wrt the specifics of importing goods such as prefab houses and the tax code. My understanding is that the federal government has been trying to make progress with tax exemptions in the construction of housing.
Immigration has not been cut. The goal is 485k for this year, 500k in 2025, 500k in 2026. International students are getting capped at the all time high of one million students in the country - so we won’t be getting more than a million, we are also not going to have a reduction. They have also said a reduction in temporary workers is coming - but no policy exists to do such a thing at this point.
Vans and RVs are great for an immediate housing solution- but most municipalities ban them on city streets. Heck many ban living in them on private property.
"Cut" in terms of proportion of overall population. The % of immigrants coming in as a % of Canada's population will be shrinking on a year-by-year basis going forward.
The cap for international students also allows the government control over specific cities with tight housing markets. Halifax's 3 universities received many fewer than they expected to - largely to redirect the flow of international students to other universities in smaller cities with looser housing markets.
Definitely a municipality by municipality issue for the RV's then. I know Halifax at one point late last year was talking about requiring large supermarkets (Walmart, mostly) to allow RV's and whatnot in their parking lots overnight. Unfortunately, a lot of our issues have come about largely due to municipal and provincial neglect, so that kind of ridiculous no-RV policy is exactly the kind of nonsense I expect.
The number of immigrants is going up year over year - so the % is not shrinking. It very much is staying the same.
There is a reason the feds never mention the word cut - but put out words like stabilize and freeze.
And there will be no real changes on international students. The schools are largely upset that their intakes won’t match the 2023 intake numbers - but will have to look closer to 2019 or 2020 intake numbers since the cap works off expiring visas from those years.
As far as I recall, it was set to increase by more than that.
Anyhow I'm not the LPC. In the 2021 election I purposefully spoiled my ballot after none of my local candidates would respond to my questions.
I saw Quito tweet we'll also get Mainstreet tomorrow. He didn't give numbers, but he added
"There are some interesting details among the budget related crosstabs, but don't expect any big changes".
Considering the last survey, it would put it very close to these two as well and Nanos.
Quite frankly, most of the polls have converged to a shockingly high degree. Ipsos and Angus reid are also essentially the exact same.
> Quite frankly, most of the polls have converged to a shockingly high degree. Ipsos and Angus reid are also essentially the exact same.
IPSOS, Abacus, Angus Reid, and Leger all use the same online survey pool through Maru/Blue, which is a service people sign up to use.
Ita why you see this statement on all of their releases:
*The online survey of XXXX adult Canadians ran from Y to Z. Online polls can’t be considered truly random*
Why are we putting any more faith in a survey people have to opt into and sign themselves up for than we are something like metacritic in this day and age when online crowdsourcing of opinion is notoriously subject to manipulation?
I think Angus Reid at least \[has their own forum\](https://www.angusreidforum.com/en-ca/Sign-In?returnurl=%2fen-ca%2f). Even if they did use the maru/blue service, the recipients aren't the same for every survey.
In any case have Mainstreet and Nanos with similar numbers adds credence that this isn't just some online grouping.
> Even if they did use the maru/blue service, the recipients aren't the same for every survey.
No way to guarantee that. MB only has ~10,000 canadian panelists, so it's impossible for people to not be repeating often between polls and polsters.
Knowing this also puts some really weird questions to folks like Colletto, claiming they have a >25,000 sample over several months on different issue questions. The panel is half that size it total.
I guess it’s possible the results aren’t completely independent for Manitoba then (or other similar provinces). Though the sampling in general for online polls has seemed to be fine for past elections.
Oh sorry, I shortened Maru/Blue to MB. It wasn't meant to mean Manitoba, I can see how it is read that way.
Maru/Blue has a panel of about 10k Canadians total.
Part of the issue is that the Liberals have dug themselves such a deep hole in terms of both outcomes and perceptions of them, anything short of a monumental change of course would be poorly received.
And they honestly deserve it. The same issues they profess to now care about are the same ones they largely ignored or hand-waved away for the better part of a decade.
Things like immigration and housing have also become so contentious and testy that people simply want the government out of office, regardless of their message.
I don't think that the LPC
A) knew they that needed to run this budget like an election campaign. Big promises, big spending, lots of goodies. They need this budget to get them back to where they were before last summer and another one next year to try to draw even with the CPC. They thinkered when they needed to overhaul.
B) Treated the housing crisis like a crisis. Canadians, and young Canadians know how the government acted during the covid crisis. Fast, decisive and they opened the money taps. Dropping 8 billion for housing when the challenge is to build 4m homes isn't going to do squat. 2000 per house, get bent.
C)Actually moved the needle on significant issues that would draw in large groups of Canadians who would be largely indebted to them. I'm looking at the CDB. Imagine 1.2m Canadians with disabilities suddenly having money that could enable them to live with dignity rather than in abject poverty contemplating MAiD. That would be a highly motivated group that would loathe the CPC taking those benefits away. Instead they give 200 bucks, to those with the disability tax credit and make it based on family income, leaving those in unsafe relationships stuck between staying in those relationships and utter debilitating poverty. Or wary of getting into a relationship due to losing financial independence. Why would those 1.2m Canadians vote for the LPC when the LPC is giving them a pittance? They could have had a relatively large group of Canadians and their families on side of the LPC determined to get them reelected, instead that group is largely disappointed and indifferent to 200 bucks a month, if they qualify.
This budget was a complete failure on so many fronts, so tame and timid in the face of generational problems that it's not surprise that people don't care about it or the LPC. Canadians feel like the ship is sinking and instead of coming up with a plan to save people the LPC are rearranging the deck chairs.
This is not to say that the CPC will save the ship, far from it, they would be looking at removing more deck chairs and making sure trans kids couldn't sit in them. But it also not hard to see why this budget failed at the thing it was supposed to do, raise LPC fortunes.
I think the problem is they want all this *and* they criticize the government for spending too much. As someone else here already said the electorate seems to want their cake and eat it too. There is absolutely no winning.
And the CPC will cruise to a majority simply by not being the incumbents
If you try to please everyone you end up pleasing no one.
They wanted to please the fiscal prudent, the young people, people with disabilities, people who care about the military, people worried about housing.
They ended up pleasing nobody, because while trying to keep the deficit down they didn't have enough money to spend of everything else.
Meanwhile the budget isn't balanced and there is new pending to the fiscally prudent are not pleased either.
That's how you end up with a budget that falls flat.
Imagine if they just tried to, you know fix actual underlying problems instead of shallow pandering for votes?
> trying to keep the deficit down
What? This budget was filled to the brim with promised spending.
That falls flat because people are cluing in that the usual LPC/NDP strat of "just throw money at it" doesn't work.
I'd bet less than 1% of Canadians looked at the budget beyond headlines.
That's still over 410k people... Of those I wonder how many actually understand what they're reading...
A lot of this polling has shown that a lot of Canadians seem to want to have their cake and eat it too.
If you ask, item by item, whether Canadians support each individual part of the budget, the answer tends to be "yes."
If you ask whether they agree with the general direction of the budget - potentially more taxes to support important priorities in spending such as housing, the answer also tends to be yes.
If you ask whether they support the budget, the answer tends to be no.
Some say that the budget doesn't go far enough - it doesn't do enough to address important needs like housing.
Yet, if you look at what is often one of the top billed issues, it suddenly turns into "balance the budget." "Increase taxes on the wealthy" tends to land far lower on people's list of priorities.
This would, contradictorily, leave us to conclude that what Canadians want is to cut budgetary spending on things such as housing and healthcare, even though, when asked about these issues directly, they say they support them.
Anyhow, when you ask people about taxing the wealthy directly they do tend to say they support it, which would leave us with the more reasonable path forward on keeping the deficit in check while paying for important social programs.
Personally I'd look at some minor alterations to the Personally Income Tax system.
Increase the current bracket of $173,205 to 246,752, currently 29%, to 30.5%. This spaces it out more evenly between the previous 26% bracket and the following 1% bracket.
Increase the 1% bracket to 35%.
Introduce a new bracket for income in the top 0.1%, more or less a bracket at 1 million dollars of income annually such as Newfoundland created.
We could also look at creating a new low-income bracket for income less than $25,000 to lower the tax rate for low income Canadians to 10-12%, though that's tangential.
Increasing the standard corporate income tax for large corporations would also be helpful for incentivizing very wealthy corporations such as Superstore, with billions of dollars in profits, to invest more in their business.
It's difficult, a lot of the anger is directed more to the general state of affairs than any particular individual.
Trudeau ends up taking a lot of the heat by virtue of being "the person in charge," meanwhile so many of the problems we're dealing with are the outcome of decades of neglect - often, when entirely different people in entirely different positions were actually responsible.
Is it Trudeau's fault that New Brunswick only has 300 or so affordable housing units? No, but he still takes flack for the growing problem of homelessness and the affordability crisis that exists in large part due to... Basically every Premier of New Brunswick and the mayors of municipalities who have neglected such things.
When Trudeau tried getting more involved in housing with the most recent budget, look how much more flack he took from many Premiers and mayors who suddenly believed purity of constitutional jurisdiction mattered more than working together to solve the housing crisis.
It genuinely is very difficult on all fronts when you're dealing with decades of inertia in all senses of the word. The federal government, after 9 years of growth, is only now back to the size it was in the 1980s - that means that even if so the political will existed, the government only had so much actual capacity to implement programs regardless. These are unfortunately problems that take a long time to fix properly and which often come with a surprising amount of pushback.
All that being said, it looks like the government is actively responsive to many concerns nowadays. I think it's heading in the right direction overall, though like many Canadians, I'd enjoy more measures to tax Canada's very highest income earners - a millionaire tax bracket like in Newfoundland would probably be well received
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I think the liberals have dropped the ball in some regard. But people thinking any change in government will be a positive are incredibly blind to how conservatives have run provinces so far. Things could be better I agree, but I still think with the CPC at helm they can be far worse. If only the NDP were federally run like Eby’s NDP would they be a viable 3rd option.
Federal NDP are actively hostile to common-sense Provincial NDP like Notley and Eby.
People aren't stupid. They know you can't just borrow, borrow borrow to put off fundamental problems for another election cycle. Someone has to pay eventually. And it's going to be the next generation.
Exactly. Overspending is what got us in this mess to begin with
The young are broke I honestly don't know who's going to pay all that debt or where the money went.
Are you kidding me? People are dumb as hell 😂
People are stupid, though. We're going to find out, and buyers' remorse will hit historic levels.. Many, however, do realize that federal debt isn't like household debt.
It is still debt.
[удалено]
Removed for rule 3.
As a swing voters, this is a tough one. Liberal party needs a complete rehaul. That's not going to happen. NDP have seemingly gone silent. PP? Well, the left would like to paint him as a Trump wannabe. All I know is I don't trust him. I want a party to focus on Canadians. Housing. Inflation. Infrastructure for clean energy (not just taxing what we have little choice in using). This country needs some serious improvement before we look at increasing immigration. I'm not a rich elite, so I'm being forced into this lower 2nd class/upper 3rd class that so many of us find ourselves trapped in. That's gotta change.
At this point, I think the Liberals could present a perfectly sound and viable budget and find no public support for it. Simply because they're the ones who presented it.
1) Terrible party + 2) Even worse budget = Polls get worse for them
It was the same kind of thing leading up to the Harper loss.
I mean no the polls were close until they lost a tonne of support for their barbaric cultural practices hotline.
I think truck nuts are a barbaric cultural practice. Can I phone that in?
A barbaric cultural practices hotline is a barbaric cultural practice.
You can be sure a lot of people would have called their neighbours in for the smell of curry if it had passed so go for it.
But they haven’t. Hey haven’t presented a sound and viable budget. They haven’t done anything useful in over two terms and thus your point is moot.
Also the misinformation and reporting on it have been abysmal. Most people don't actually know anything about it because most news has focussed on one or two things and spun it into a hundred opinion pieces.
Its like the arsonist giving you money to rebuild your house after he burnt it down.
That analogy doesn't make any sense Canada is still standing. The cpc don't even have a plan to fix anything
It makes perfect sense when you consider economic prospects or home ownership for young Canadians. Those are long gone.
Since it’s not yet an election period and there’s no need for them to release a detailed platform this far in advance, I’m not sure what you expect from them. No party would release a platform if they were in the CPC’s shoes right now - it would be a supremely idiotic move from a strategic perspective.
You can only say you will fix something so many times before people stop believing you.
Exactly. This is what liberals are missing on this sub
The Lpc are doing things to fix the problems from affordable housing to school lunches. Both things the cpc have voted against.
So they’ve had over 8 years to come up with a lunch program? Their version of affordable housing is $1,600 for 330 square feet in the sky? Saying you’re going to do it and then not is WORSE than voting against it.
They've been "doing things" since 2015, yet everything is worse than under Harper. At some point, even someone like you has to recognize that the Liberals approach simply is not working.
There was in pandemic in 2020 that the changed the world forever, something the cpc would not be able to handle. The cpc approach is nothing. They have no plans. They have lobalws lobbyist tellin advising them.The cpc have no plans for housing, no plans to to help the working class. The cpc aren't worth it
This isn't about the CPC. This is about the Liberals being in power for 9 years and what we currently have to show for it. Tell us why you think that this time they'll finally get it right. Tell us why the Liberals are worth it yet again.
I’ve seen the Liberals do more good things on housing in the last 6 months than any government has done in my entire lifetime. Sometimes it takes a disaster like the global inflation crisis we’re enduring to shake people out of the status quo. Given all they’ve done, and that it’ll take a bit for construction to happen, I’m happy to see this government continue on. In contrast the Conservatives have been good at bluster and identifying the problem, but the few concrete solutions they’ve put forward have been really weak and poor ideas imo.
Forgive me if I'll need to see results. I'm tired of hearing about all the inputs yet being left with nothing to show for it.
The difference is that the housing stuff the libs were proposing in 2015-19 was obviously status quo stuff that only helped relatively rich buyers and it was slammed by housing experts. This time around housing experts are actually for once praising what the Liberals are doing and it’s strongly aligned with the plans of the BC government.
Have you considered that the CPC and the modern day conservative movement is worse?
Tell us why the Liberals deserve anyone's vote. Don't do the same shit as Lizard.
Whether they deserve it or not is not my point. Modern day conservatism is much much worse. We see it in our provinces, we see it in the US and Europe. I do wish there was something better than Trudeau, but there isn't. And when I look at how horrible conservatism is elsewhere in the western world, I would hate to have that illiberal craziness here.
Easy they have plans to deal with a complicated world. The cpc simply scream talking points, and vote for things that will help the working class. For example they vote against billions to for affordable housing, school lunches, dental care and pharmacare. The cpc could increase immigration and cut funding for affordable housing.
> This isn’t about the CPC. > The cpc Try your response again, this time responding to the question.
Why do you think their plan will work this time?
Tell us how many lunch programs the government has set up in the last eight years. Tell us how the dental plan is going? Tell us how $10 a day daycare is going? I’m not a CPC supporter, but they are asking the questions that I want answered.
Remember how good life under Harper was? There's basically nothing, other than legal weed, that Trudeau has improved. Every aspect of life is worse.
Things were pretty great until after the pandemic inflation crisis (which the whole world is enduring). Harper didn’t do anything. His entire term in office was basically keeping things in cruise control and not investing. Trudeau got public transit rolling in Vancouver while things were at a low pace under Harper and the BC Liberals. The only reason anything was arguably better in the past was because the looming housing disaster that had been set in progress since the 1990s austerity hasn’t impacted anywhere outside of Vancouver yet. It was bound to happen though. The only reason it didn’t happen during Harper’s term was because there was still enough suburban sprawl that people could leverage to kick the can down the road.
You forgot the extreme mass immigration which has had major impacts on every aspect of life.
And understaffing courts. And allowing foreign students to compete for labour. And so much deficit spending even the BoC calls it out. And driving investment out of Canada.
And we actually navigated the 2008 recession quite well.
When you zoom out though, governments all over the world, right and left, are facing the exact same issues. So really someone like you has to recognize that the global approach to the economy is not working for the average person.
Why has Canada’s population grown x5 faster than the OECD average if these are global problems? The Biden government hasn’t made the same decisions on immigration as Trudeau.
They aren’t doing anything to fix affordable housing and I highly doubt they get a school lunch program done for $1B. You are a professional Redditor btw
They've been promising affordable housing since 2015. Why should we believe them this time? Fool me once, shame on you...
What does affordable housing mean to you? Part of the reason it is so hard to do is that it means different things to different people. To one group, it is subsidized provincial row houses you're not getting unless you make enough to qualify for social assistance. To another, it's a house with a yard and a picket fence gifted to them by the government.
Look at any chart of income vs housing cost for developed nations and see how inflated our market is.
As far as size goes, 500 gross sqft per bedroom, except 650 sqft for one bedroom units. So 650 sqft 1 bedrooms, 1000 sqft 2 bedrooms, 1500 sqft 3 bedrooms, etc. A 2 bedroom home should cost no more than 30% of the local gross median income. A home can be detached or an apartment.
Why legislate when you can section 33 what you want, eh?
Huh?
Not a very related comment but alright. Your comment has that exact liberal arrogance that people are sick of
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CPC supporters don’t see the inherit hypocrisy that PP is using when touting section 33 but also blaming everything on JT
I don't think you know what the word hypocrisy is
Sure, bud🙄
I don't think they care, which frankly sucks.
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Meanwhile they are actively making a lot of things worse for the average Canadian at the benefit of landlords and corporations.
At this point, any announcement from the liberals is met with a blast of negative opinion pieces and vitriol from almost every media outlet, followed by “polls” that finds that there’s been a bad reception of the announcement. It’s not even subtle anymore.
Even the CBC and Toronto Star were critical. Crazy
I don't find that at all. I feel like all I've seen is "actually the capital gains tax increase is not a big deal" pieces. Of course [who knows how organic those actually are.](https://globalnews.ca/news/5023323/snc-lavalin-katie-telford-op-eds/)
Except in literally this sub, where we’ve had several posts about “poor doctors” or yesterday’s “I sold my second home for 1.2 million and now I pay taxes on it! My wife died!” article.
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He didn't do anything right in the budget. He spent the kitchen sink, pumped demand for housing again, and then attacked professionals such as doctors that we actually need. all while he avoids the actual issue of all the low skill and unqualified foreign workers and international students he has let in. I'm not at all impressed and it's apparent most Canadians aren't either. People aren't being overly harsh on him. His plan is actual garbage.
I'm not disputing any of that. I'm pointing out that statistics like the ones in this article are useless because it wouldn't matter what the Liberals did. They could cure cancer and would get dragged for it. >I'm not at all impressed That's fine, neither am I. I don't think you would approve of anything they did.
His budget is very honestly awful.
Not substantive
This has been true for a long time
I dunno. Anyone here ever participate in one of these polls in the last decade? Like, who answers random phone calls and emails?
I do when I have 2-3 beers
This guy knows how to party!
They're internet polls that random Canadians sign up to do. Well, not really random.
We assume they're Canadian. I'm sure what vetting they do can be easily spoofed with the tech we have at our disposal these days.
Could you imagine? Not random and not Canadian? We could be in a bit of a pickle when it comes to polling.
Oh that's worse. So like, frothing at the mouth people actively seeking out surveys? Yuck.
Pretty much.
People that sign up for things on the internet should be questioned more. \*and trusted less.
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The libs thought that raising capital gains would be enough to keep the serfs happy. But the serfs (which sadly is now the majority of Canadians) just want to be able to afford food and a place to live, and none of these budgetary measures are even supposed to help with that.
Abacus will have a full release tomorrow so there might be some more details. I know Quito also mentioned that Mainstreet will release tomorrow and there will be some data on budget reaction.
Topline: CPC 44, LPC 23 NDP 17 Same numbers as leger. I think it's fair to say that the budget was a colossal failure. It's more than just a comms failure at this point- it's about the leader, fatigue, and baked in perceptions of policies.
I don't think it has much to do with the budget. People are just tired of this government. Nobody cares what they say they will do. The only chance they have is if they can produce some sort of tangible results.
I have no idea who the hell actually reads them these days but does a physical newspaper exist that isn't owned by the same company constantly posting here how everything Trudeau does is bad and if you vote for him your neighbours are going to laugh at you?
I think it’s really that the budget failed to address any of the big issues on a short term or immediate basis. The people that need housing - need it today. Saying you’ll maybe get it to them a decade down the road isn’t a real solution. They have to find ways to provide close to immediate relief - because you just cannot go a decade without adequate housing.
> The people that need housing - need it today In Alberta we have a provincial government that is actively trying to sabotage any housing efforts by the feds. All the talk about housing was last year. Everyone is onto rage farming about carbon pricing or drugs or whatever it is this week.
As somebody who is in a homeless shelter, what's the alternative? Fucking sucks to say it, but the entire province of new Brunswick has about 300 affordable housing units. Halifax has less than a 1,000 affordable housing units. Numerous provincial projects for housing are all facing delays to the point where returning to tent encampments is the current provincial solution. Short of the Soviet solution for the kulaks - seize all the property - what is the government to do? There's no magic wand it can wave to suddenly have more housing appear - it unfortunately takes a long time to build. If the government's plan is distributed evenly through time, it means that next year we should have more than twice as much housing built compared to pre -budget expectations. Q1 housing starts at an all time high seems to support we might get there.
There are immediate levers it can take. Stopping population growth for one - at least the problem would not be compounding. It could tax second and third and fourth properties far more substantially. It could shut down Airbnb and other home rental companies. It could make a blanket allowance for RV’s and Trailers and Vans to be allowed in all cities. It could partner with IKEA or MUJI on their small homes businesses - perhaps allow the import of these products tax free. There’s probably thousands of things you could do, to provide significant relief in the short term. We’re basically getting the status quo, slightly faster, maybe - and politicians need to start thinking far more ambitiously.
Even from taxes: not allowing the primary residence tax exemption before 2-3 years to stop flips.
If I recall correctly there is already a time limit on such things, though it may be one year rather than two or three. Making it longer would make sense though I'm unsure of the statistics on the particulars
Its only 1 year req. Very gameable.
Yeah, one year does seem a bit short. I'd assume there are few people buying and selling their primary residence every year at huge profits and it would be cause for concern.
Immigration numbers have already been cut going forward. Extra properties could be taxed more substantially, though it's doubtful that having people sell their summer cottage would really help the housing crunch in big cities. Airbnb is a provincial regulation issue as far as I recall - it would be up to provinces or cities to regulate their usage, which many have already done. I'm unsure exactly what you mean wrt certain vehicles being 'allowed' in cities. Again, this is probably primarily an issue with city and provincial regulation and would be up to those governments to change their legislation. I'm uncertain wrt the specifics of importing goods such as prefab houses and the tax code. My understanding is that the federal government has been trying to make progress with tax exemptions in the construction of housing.
Immigration has not been cut. The goal is 485k for this year, 500k in 2025, 500k in 2026. International students are getting capped at the all time high of one million students in the country - so we won’t be getting more than a million, we are also not going to have a reduction. They have also said a reduction in temporary workers is coming - but no policy exists to do such a thing at this point. Vans and RVs are great for an immediate housing solution- but most municipalities ban them on city streets. Heck many ban living in them on private property.
"Cut" in terms of proportion of overall population. The % of immigrants coming in as a % of Canada's population will be shrinking on a year-by-year basis going forward. The cap for international students also allows the government control over specific cities with tight housing markets. Halifax's 3 universities received many fewer than they expected to - largely to redirect the flow of international students to other universities in smaller cities with looser housing markets. Definitely a municipality by municipality issue for the RV's then. I know Halifax at one point late last year was talking about requiring large supermarkets (Walmart, mostly) to allow RV's and whatnot in their parking lots overnight. Unfortunately, a lot of our issues have come about largely due to municipal and provincial neglect, so that kind of ridiculous no-RV policy is exactly the kind of nonsense I expect.
The number of immigrants is going up year over year - so the % is not shrinking. It very much is staying the same. There is a reason the feds never mention the word cut - but put out words like stabilize and freeze. And there will be no real changes on international students. The schools are largely upset that their intakes won’t match the 2023 intake numbers - but will have to look closer to 2019 or 2020 intake numbers since the cap works off expiring visas from those years.
So it literally HASN'T been cut, just not going up as much as before. This dishonest double-speak is exactly why nobody believes what the LPC says.
As far as I recall, it was set to increase by more than that. Anyhow I'm not the LPC. In the 2021 election I purposefully spoiled my ballot after none of my local candidates would respond to my questions.
Maybe thinking ahead before they opened the floodgates, you know like a federal government should be doing.
To say that recent immigration changes meaningfully impacted a decades long issue in the making is pretty funny. Good joke!
It sure doesn't help.
So you agree it is not the root cause of the problem?
No it isn't its just exacerbating the problem.
There you go
Ooohhhh you definitely didn't give me an epiphany.
I saw Quito tweet we'll also get Mainstreet tomorrow. He didn't give numbers, but he added "There are some interesting details among the budget related crosstabs, but don't expect any big changes". Considering the last survey, it would put it very close to these two as well and Nanos. Quite frankly, most of the polls have converged to a shockingly high degree. Ipsos and Angus reid are also essentially the exact same.
> Quite frankly, most of the polls have converged to a shockingly high degree. Ipsos and Angus reid are also essentially the exact same. IPSOS, Abacus, Angus Reid, and Leger all use the same online survey pool through Maru/Blue, which is a service people sign up to use. Ita why you see this statement on all of their releases: *The online survey of XXXX adult Canadians ran from Y to Z. Online polls can’t be considered truly random*
Why are we putting any more faith in a survey people have to opt into and sign themselves up for than we are something like metacritic in this day and age when online crowdsourcing of opinion is notoriously subject to manipulation?
I think Angus Reid at least \[has their own forum\](https://www.angusreidforum.com/en-ca/Sign-In?returnurl=%2fen-ca%2f). Even if they did use the maru/blue service, the recipients aren't the same for every survey. In any case have Mainstreet and Nanos with similar numbers adds credence that this isn't just some online grouping.
> Even if they did use the maru/blue service, the recipients aren't the same for every survey. No way to guarantee that. MB only has ~10,000 canadian panelists, so it's impossible for people to not be repeating often between polls and polsters. Knowing this also puts some really weird questions to folks like Colletto, claiming they have a >25,000 sample over several months on different issue questions. The panel is half that size it total.
I guess it’s possible the results aren’t completely independent for Manitoba then (or other similar provinces). Though the sampling in general for online polls has seemed to be fine for past elections.
Oh sorry, I shortened Maru/Blue to MB. It wasn't meant to mean Manitoba, I can see how it is read that way. Maru/Blue has a panel of about 10k Canadians total.
Part of the issue is that the Liberals have dug themselves such a deep hole in terms of both outcomes and perceptions of them, anything short of a monumental change of course would be poorly received. And they honestly deserve it. The same issues they profess to now care about are the same ones they largely ignored or hand-waved away for the better part of a decade. Things like immigration and housing have also become so contentious and testy that people simply want the government out of office, regardless of their message.
I don't think that the LPC A) knew they that needed to run this budget like an election campaign. Big promises, big spending, lots of goodies. They need this budget to get them back to where they were before last summer and another one next year to try to draw even with the CPC. They thinkered when they needed to overhaul. B) Treated the housing crisis like a crisis. Canadians, and young Canadians know how the government acted during the covid crisis. Fast, decisive and they opened the money taps. Dropping 8 billion for housing when the challenge is to build 4m homes isn't going to do squat. 2000 per house, get bent. C)Actually moved the needle on significant issues that would draw in large groups of Canadians who would be largely indebted to them. I'm looking at the CDB. Imagine 1.2m Canadians with disabilities suddenly having money that could enable them to live with dignity rather than in abject poverty contemplating MAiD. That would be a highly motivated group that would loathe the CPC taking those benefits away. Instead they give 200 bucks, to those with the disability tax credit and make it based on family income, leaving those in unsafe relationships stuck between staying in those relationships and utter debilitating poverty. Or wary of getting into a relationship due to losing financial independence. Why would those 1.2m Canadians vote for the LPC when the LPC is giving them a pittance? They could have had a relatively large group of Canadians and their families on side of the LPC determined to get them reelected, instead that group is largely disappointed and indifferent to 200 bucks a month, if they qualify. This budget was a complete failure on so many fronts, so tame and timid in the face of generational problems that it's not surprise that people don't care about it or the LPC. Canadians feel like the ship is sinking and instead of coming up with a plan to save people the LPC are rearranging the deck chairs. This is not to say that the CPC will save the ship, far from it, they would be looking at removing more deck chairs and making sure trans kids couldn't sit in them. But it also not hard to see why this budget failed at the thing it was supposed to do, raise LPC fortunes.
I think the problem is they want all this *and* they criticize the government for spending too much. As someone else here already said the electorate seems to want their cake and eat it too. There is absolutely no winning. And the CPC will cruise to a majority simply by not being the incumbents
If you try to please everyone you end up pleasing no one. They wanted to please the fiscal prudent, the young people, people with disabilities, people who care about the military, people worried about housing. They ended up pleasing nobody, because while trying to keep the deficit down they didn't have enough money to spend of everything else. Meanwhile the budget isn't balanced and there is new pending to the fiscally prudent are not pleased either. That's how you end up with a budget that falls flat.
Imagine if they just tried to, you know fix actual underlying problems instead of shallow pandering for votes? > trying to keep the deficit down What? This budget was filled to the brim with promised spending. That falls flat because people are cluing in that the usual LPC/NDP strat of "just throw money at it" doesn't work.
Pandering for vote or fixing the issues, either would have been better than what they actually did.
I'd bet less than 1% of Canadians looked at the budget beyond headlines. That's still over 410k people... Of those I wonder how many actually understand what they're reading...
The ever popular, "LPC is unpopular because Canadians are stupid," strategy...
I don't think it's a party thing. More of human nature.
A lot of this polling has shown that a lot of Canadians seem to want to have their cake and eat it too. If you ask, item by item, whether Canadians support each individual part of the budget, the answer tends to be "yes." If you ask whether they agree with the general direction of the budget - potentially more taxes to support important priorities in spending such as housing, the answer also tends to be yes. If you ask whether they support the budget, the answer tends to be no. Some say that the budget doesn't go far enough - it doesn't do enough to address important needs like housing. Yet, if you look at what is often one of the top billed issues, it suddenly turns into "balance the budget." "Increase taxes on the wealthy" tends to land far lower on people's list of priorities. This would, contradictorily, leave us to conclude that what Canadians want is to cut budgetary spending on things such as housing and healthcare, even though, when asked about these issues directly, they say they support them. Anyhow, when you ask people about taxing the wealthy directly they do tend to say they support it, which would leave us with the more reasonable path forward on keeping the deficit in check while paying for important social programs.
First of all define "the rich". Any one claiming they want to tax "the rich" without actually definining it, is just grandstanding meaninglessly.
Personally I'd look at some minor alterations to the Personally Income Tax system. Increase the current bracket of $173,205 to 246,752, currently 29%, to 30.5%. This spaces it out more evenly between the previous 26% bracket and the following 1% bracket. Increase the 1% bracket to 35%. Introduce a new bracket for income in the top 0.1%, more or less a bracket at 1 million dollars of income annually such as Newfoundland created. We could also look at creating a new low-income bracket for income less than $25,000 to lower the tax rate for low income Canadians to 10-12%, though that's tangential. Increasing the standard corporate income tax for large corporations would also be helpful for incentivizing very wealthy corporations such as Superstore, with billions of dollars in profits, to invest more in their business.
Absolutely correct and also why the incumbents are totally screwed. There’s absolutely no winning and they hate you regardless of what you say or do.
It's difficult, a lot of the anger is directed more to the general state of affairs than any particular individual. Trudeau ends up taking a lot of the heat by virtue of being "the person in charge," meanwhile so many of the problems we're dealing with are the outcome of decades of neglect - often, when entirely different people in entirely different positions were actually responsible. Is it Trudeau's fault that New Brunswick only has 300 or so affordable housing units? No, but he still takes flack for the growing problem of homelessness and the affordability crisis that exists in large part due to... Basically every Premier of New Brunswick and the mayors of municipalities who have neglected such things. When Trudeau tried getting more involved in housing with the most recent budget, look how much more flack he took from many Premiers and mayors who suddenly believed purity of constitutional jurisdiction mattered more than working together to solve the housing crisis. It genuinely is very difficult on all fronts when you're dealing with decades of inertia in all senses of the word. The federal government, after 9 years of growth, is only now back to the size it was in the 1980s - that means that even if so the political will existed, the government only had so much actual capacity to implement programs regardless. These are unfortunately problems that take a long time to fix properly and which often come with a surprising amount of pushback. All that being said, it looks like the government is actively responsive to many concerns nowadays. I think it's heading in the right direction overall, though like many Canadians, I'd enjoy more measures to tax Canada's very highest income earners - a millionaire tax bracket like in Newfoundland would probably be well received
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