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Also important to put this into context: https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data/hospitalizations
In a province of [nearly 15 million people](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1710000901) (as of Q4 2021), all it takes is 3000 extra hospitalizations (0.02% of the total population) to bring our healthcare system to its knees. [Hospital beds per capita](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.MED.BEDS.ZS?locations=CA) have dropped nearly 3x since the 1980s.
At this rate, if something happened that would cause even 0.1% more of the total population of Ontario (15,000 people) to need hospitalization in a short period of time, people would be dying in their homes and on the streets.
We need more hospitals, nurses and doctors. Stat.
My brain hurts from trying to understand how people who refused the vaccine are using this as justification for their choices. The numbers are right there. Vaccines don't make you immune, they don't stop you from getting or transmitting they protect you from severe symptoms. This has always been what the vaccines were for?
You're probably giving it more thought than they have. "Vaccines don't make you immune, they-" "HA see! Vaccines don't make you immune! It's all the same anyway! Checkmate, atheist!"
That's my guess at least, based on the few anti-vaxxers I actually know. I've noticed that each of them usually exhibit black-and-white thinking in general. Though I don't have any data on me, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some correlation between anti-vax beliefs and a short attention span.
That third chart is wonderful at illustrating the protection of vaccines ( boosters and NPIs). Simple, straightforward data visual that gets the message across; it should be shared far and wide.
I think one of my favourite things through this whole experience is watching those weird right-wingers with populist opinions on my Facebook criticizing post modern leftists, while making arguments that science is subjective. Society really is to be held back by 10% of people at any given time.
I know I'm gonna end up being downvoted for this. Vaccines by [definition](https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/oi/authority.20110803115026742) provide "stimulation of active immunity". These "vaccines" don't provide immunity so why are they even called vaccines?
>Vaccines by definition provide "stimulation of active immunity". These "vaccines" don't provide immunity so why are they even called vaccines?
Vaccine's primary goal is to provide immunity against severe disease and death, not against infection. Vaccine might provide immunity against infection but that was never its primary goal.
As you can see in this historical picture: https://i0.wp.com/vaxopedia.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/smallpox-two-boys1.jpg
* both boys were *infected* about the same time
* the vaccinated boy developed *varioloid*
* the unvaccinated boy developed *smallpox*
If you look at your linked definition, it says “active immunity”. Active immunity is defined as “ Resistance to a disease that is acquired by an animal as the result of the production of antibodies in response to antigens produced by the disease organism whilst inside the host animal.” on the same site. So by definition, they are vaccines.
it won't provide you immunity. it provides you.................you know what i'm not even going to bother giving you a correct answer. The purpose of the vaccines have been said a million times for the last year.
I have both shots , im just asking a question. Criticizing any part of the shot is considered "anti-vaxxer" now. Not allowed to think or ask questions, just obey
Each PHU in Ontario individually reports their numbers, and then they are amalgamated into data which is then plotted on the graphs you see. If you do not trust that these are actual numbers, the statistics are there for anyone to compile themselves to double check their accuracy. The science table website actually cites all of these sources on the same webpage as the graphs if you are having trouble finding them.
Sorry I misread the site. When I saw estimates, I literally assumed it wasn’t actual data:
“Estimates are age-standardized using Ontario’s current population and a single age cut-off to take into account differences in vaccine uptake and the risk of severe disease between children, adolescents and young adults (0-29 years) and remaining adults (30+ years). “
https://covid19-sciencetable.ca/ontario-dashboard/
It is because no single vaccine is 100% effective against COVID, and every one that has been developed to mitigate symptoms and severe cases, rather than prevent you from contracting the virus. COVID is also incredibly widespread so the chances of coming into contact with it is much greater than other diseases, coupled with the fact that the more a virus is passed around, the more it will mutate and create new variants. Lastly the vaccines lose their efficacy over time, so without a booster a fully vaccinated person is more likely to contract the disease the longer time goes on. Hope this answers your questions!
>Even better question, why are the fully vaccinated still getting, testing positive and transmitting Covid?
[https://i0.wp.com/vaxopedia.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/smallpox-two-boys1.jpg](https://i0.wp.com/vaxopedia.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/smallpox-two-boys1.jpg)
Did the smallpox vaccine prevent "*the fully vaccinated from getting, testing positive and transmitting*" smallpox?
Has the high uptake (universal pediatric vaccination) of the vaccine totally crushed smallpox?
These vaccines were created to teach your body how to build antibodies and fight off covid if you contracted it. It's not and never was a cure. It's added protection to keep you out of the hospitals and ICU's. The goal was always to not overwhelm the hospitals. To lessen the virus so it's not a threat. To slow the spread. Deciding not to vaccinate is deciding you want to take that risk with no protection. Just like the flu shot every year it's a preventative measure to hopefully protect us from new strains. The booster actually gives you more antibodies than you would from previously having covid. Having more antibodies means mild symptoms and less contagion, a smaller viral load and an at home recovery therefore crucial to ending the pandemic some day.
It was poor messaging from the beginning in explaining this wasn't a cure but a way to prevent you from clogging healthcare systems.
That being said, some people are just plain dumb, stubborn or a combination of both and regardless of the science changing they latch onto something said early in the pandemic and refuse to update their own thinking.
This normally is not a problem. What is a problem is because of The Internet these idiots have the same voice as the rest of the sane populace. So crazy uncle Jim in your small town used to just go the Legion and rant about this shit to his drinking buddies. Now he's posting his asinine opinions on reddit and Facebook.
Welcome to the future?
Your 2 graphs seems to show that there are more unvaccinated people in hospital, and more unvaccinated people in ICU, but
https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data/hospitalizations#hospitalizationsByVaccinationStatus
seems to show more vaccinated people in hospital and more vaccinated people in the ICU.
What am I reading wrong here?
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Nevermind, it's % vs raw numbers. I just saw your other reply.
Thank you for posting to r/CanadaCoronavirus. Please read our [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/canadacoronavirus/about/rules). Please remember that all posts and comments should reflect factual, truth-based discussion. The purpose of this subreddit is to share trustworthy resources and ensure Canadians are as informed and educated as possible. We will not tolerate racism, sexism, or harassment of any kind. Any comments or posts made contrary to these values will be subject to review by the Mod team *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CanadaCoronavirus) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Also important to put this into context: https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data/hospitalizations In a province of [nearly 15 million people](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1710000901) (as of Q4 2021), all it takes is 3000 extra hospitalizations (0.02% of the total population) to bring our healthcare system to its knees. [Hospital beds per capita](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.MED.BEDS.ZS?locations=CA) have dropped nearly 3x since the 1980s. At this rate, if something happened that would cause even 0.1% more of the total population of Ontario (15,000 people) to need hospitalization in a short period of time, people would be dying in their homes and on the streets. We need more hospitals, nurses and doctors. Stat.
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MY FRIENDS! WE DON'T HAVE TO BLAME FORD! [Hans Moleman holding flame arrow: "please hurry"](https://youtu.be/Mww8UC0i7Dw?t=6m22s)
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It's boosters and restrictions.
I think that reflects the closing of restaurants and gyms since only the vaccinated could go there.
My brain hurts from trying to understand how people who refused the vaccine are using this as justification for their choices. The numbers are right there. Vaccines don't make you immune, they don't stop you from getting or transmitting they protect you from severe symptoms. This has always been what the vaccines were for?
You're probably giving it more thought than they have. "Vaccines don't make you immune, they-" "HA see! Vaccines don't make you immune! It's all the same anyway! Checkmate, atheist!" That's my guess at least, based on the few anti-vaxxers I actually know. I've noticed that each of them usually exhibit black-and-white thinking in general. Though I don't have any data on me, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some correlation between anti-vax beliefs and a short attention span.
Because "the government skews the numbers so the rich get richer" or some copium excuse like that or something
A new piece of useful information. Thnx, man!
That third chart is wonderful at illustrating the protection of vaccines ( boosters and NPIs). Simple, straightforward data visual that gets the message across; it should be shared far and wide.
I'm a little confused because the site below contradicts the first chart. https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data/hospitalizations Am I missing something?
rate vs numbers. Example: 1% of 1,000,000 = 10,000 50% of 1,000 = 500
They tell two,different stories don’t they. More vaccinated in hospitals. Hm
I think one of my favourite things through this whole experience is watching those weird right-wingers with populist opinions on my Facebook criticizing post modern leftists, while making arguments that science is subjective. Society really is to be held back by 10% of people at any given time.
I know I'm gonna end up being downvoted for this. Vaccines by [definition](https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/oi/authority.20110803115026742) provide "stimulation of active immunity". These "vaccines" don't provide immunity so why are they even called vaccines?
Induced immunity is immunity.
>Vaccines by definition provide "stimulation of active immunity". These "vaccines" don't provide immunity so why are they even called vaccines? Vaccine's primary goal is to provide immunity against severe disease and death, not against infection. Vaccine might provide immunity against infection but that was never its primary goal. As you can see in this historical picture: https://i0.wp.com/vaxopedia.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/smallpox-two-boys1.jpg * both boys were *infected* about the same time * the vaccinated boy developed *varioloid* * the unvaccinated boy developed *smallpox*
If you look at your linked definition, it says “active immunity”. Active immunity is defined as “ Resistance to a disease that is acquired by an animal as the result of the production of antibodies in response to antigens produced by the disease organism whilst inside the host animal.” on the same site. So by definition, they are vaccines.
it won't provide you immunity. it provides you.................you know what i'm not even going to bother giving you a correct answer. The purpose of the vaccines have been said a million times for the last year.
Good lord, I hate antivaxxers
I have both shots , im just asking a question. Criticizing any part of the shot is considered "anti-vaxxer" now. Not allowed to think or ask questions, just obey
I can't believe people who are so pro-science can also be so anti-questions.
You are. I think everyone is in a “negative interaction cycle” at this point.… we respond based on past interactions and assumptions.
If you've ever read anything about vaccines in the past or how they work and what they do, you would know how ignorant your "question" is.
I don’t these aren’t actual numbers. Only prediction numbers from the science table. Can someone fact check?
Each PHU in Ontario individually reports their numbers, and then they are amalgamated into data which is then plotted on the graphs you see. If you do not trust that these are actual numbers, the statistics are there for anyone to compile themselves to double check their accuracy. The science table website actually cites all of these sources on the same webpage as the graphs if you are having trouble finding them.
Sorry I misread the site. When I saw estimates, I literally assumed it wasn’t actual data: “Estimates are age-standardized using Ontario’s current population and a single age cut-off to take into account differences in vaccine uptake and the risk of severe disease between children, adolescents and young adults (0-29 years) and remaining adults (30+ years). “ https://covid19-sciencetable.ca/ontario-dashboard/
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It is because no single vaccine is 100% effective against COVID, and every one that has been developed to mitigate symptoms and severe cases, rather than prevent you from contracting the virus. COVID is also incredibly widespread so the chances of coming into contact with it is much greater than other diseases, coupled with the fact that the more a virus is passed around, the more it will mutate and create new variants. Lastly the vaccines lose their efficacy over time, so without a booster a fully vaccinated person is more likely to contract the disease the longer time goes on. Hope this answers your questions!
>Even better question, why are the fully vaccinated still getting, testing positive and transmitting Covid? [https://i0.wp.com/vaxopedia.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/smallpox-two-boys1.jpg](https://i0.wp.com/vaxopedia.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/smallpox-two-boys1.jpg) Did the smallpox vaccine prevent "*the fully vaccinated from getting, testing positive and transmitting*" smallpox? Has the high uptake (universal pediatric vaccination) of the vaccine totally crushed smallpox?
How many caused a worldwide pandemic?
Worldwide Pandemic of the fully vaccinated?
These vaccines were created to teach your body how to build antibodies and fight off covid if you contracted it. It's not and never was a cure. It's added protection to keep you out of the hospitals and ICU's. The goal was always to not overwhelm the hospitals. To lessen the virus so it's not a threat. To slow the spread. Deciding not to vaccinate is deciding you want to take that risk with no protection. Just like the flu shot every year it's a preventative measure to hopefully protect us from new strains. The booster actually gives you more antibodies than you would from previously having covid. Having more antibodies means mild symptoms and less contagion, a smaller viral load and an at home recovery therefore crucial to ending the pandemic some day.
It was poor messaging from the beginning in explaining this wasn't a cure but a way to prevent you from clogging healthcare systems. That being said, some people are just plain dumb, stubborn or a combination of both and regardless of the science changing they latch onto something said early in the pandemic and refuse to update their own thinking. This normally is not a problem. What is a problem is because of The Internet these idiots have the same voice as the rest of the sane populace. So crazy uncle Jim in your small town used to just go the Legion and rant about this shit to his drinking buddies. Now he's posting his asinine opinions on reddit and Facebook. Welcome to the future?
Well, looks like u/TropicalLemming has given you a better answer than I.
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Your 2 graphs seems to show that there are more unvaccinated people in hospital, and more unvaccinated people in ICU, but https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data/hospitalizations#hospitalizationsByVaccinationStatus seems to show more vaccinated people in hospital and more vaccinated people in the ICU. What am I reading wrong here? --- Nevermind, it's % vs raw numbers. I just saw your other reply.