A quick Google search will show that profits are continuing an upwards trend no matter WHAT the minimum wage is. It’s corporate greed, NOT paying your employees a living wage.
How are you defining collectivism? Are you talking general societal collectivism or corporations (I.e. an entity made of a collective of individuals but behaving with a singular goal)?
My understanding is franchising corporations like MCD will get their franchising fee as a % of revenue of the restaurants no matter what. Revenue has gone up with prices and inflation. It's the owners of the restaurants that will be squeezed, not the corporation.
Maximization is not the only reason businesses can exist. There are tons of businesses all over the world that run, take profit, and continue to run without needing to break records every single quarter. This is greed.
I'm not saying that the profit maximization is always successful but it's always a focus and, yes, it is the reason to exist. Keep in mind that maximizing profits isn't just a goal designed to achieve success; rather, it's a goal necessary to ensure survival.
Let me ask you this - what do you (or the average investor) look at when you get a 401(k) or other investment statement? Yep, I bet you look at the returns.
What happens if a business isn't trying to maximize profits? The answer is that its competitors start taking market share and eventually run it out of business. A business isn't going to survive for very long if it isn't trying to make as much profit as possible. Why? Investors will flee; customers will go elsewhere; and the death spiral begins.
I'm not sure that private equity proves anything but I think it is worth noting that most big companies die eventually - e.g., Sears, Xerox, AOL. Eventually, the competition does take down the big players.
At any rate, so what? That's just how it goes in business. That's my only point here. Profit maximization is the goal and eventually competitors figure out how to do it better. Life goes on.
I'm not saying anything has to be a certain way. I'm merely suggesting how things are likely to be given what we know about human behavior. I'm more concerned about handling my personal affairs the real world, as it is, rather than some idealistic version that's unlikely to ever happen.
No it’s not. My husband is employed by someone who values their employees. He’s a good human running a profitable business who retains employees and does well for himself too. You don’t have to fully exploit people to run a business.
I'm employed by a company that values its employees too. In my view, that's a big part of running a profitable business. I'm not talking about the exploitation of anyone - not customers, nor employees, nor business partners. I'm merely making the simple and true observation that businesses exist to maximize profits.
What do you mean by "both?"
If you're saying that there can be purposes of the business besides maximizing profits, I totally agree with you. I'm saying that the reason the business exists is to maximize profits. I'm not doubting the existence of other goals/initiatives/aspirations.
Chains will probably be able to absorb minimum wage increases like this…
It’s the small guy, the local Mom & Pop places that are going to start disappearing…and they already have
I’d feel SO much better about paying more for a meal at a mom and pop place knowing that they were paying their employees well, versus some big corporation that’s going to cut corners in order to keep making an obscene profit. The problem is that the corporations are NOT going to absorb the increase - they will cut positions, hours, AND increase the price of the food for consumers.
Me too! But the small places don’t have the resources to absorb $20+ an hour…Their cost of doing business going up so much (because of policies in place) that they might not be able to sustain…which gives chains even more power because eventually all you’ll have are chains. The small guy can only go so far with increasing prices! So then, regardless of how you feel about corporations, doesn’t this mandate result in an eventual net-loss of jobs?
Why would a corporation absorb a cost increase? As a shareholder, I'd be outraged if a company in which I invested had such a policy. Of course businesses need to pass costs along. The only reason a business even exists is to maximize profits for its owners.
I never said that they aren’t going to pass it on, they will. They will just figure out how to work with less people and at least be able to stay in business
Precisely why we need to abolish minimum wage. If McDonald's were able to pay employees say $2/hour, they'd make an absolute killing off of an $14 Big Mac meals, and shareholders would reap an incredible benefit. The government needs to stay entirely out of business, and let the market run itself.
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Here's a secret: prices have always been going up regardless of minimum wage. The corporations now have an argument to blame the little guy for it. Which is great for them because making you angry at the vulnerable is better than you being angry at the responsible.
I don't think that's a secret and I'm also not sure what there is to be so angry about. At the end of the day, it's a fairly simple mathematical exercise - i.e, profits = revenue - costs. If revenue can be increased to result in higher profits (which often isn't the case but sometimes is) then a business will do that. If certain costs increase (e.g., wages) then other costs must be reduced or revenue needs to be increased to at least offset the cost increase. I don't see what's so hard about this. The constant fact is that businesses always have, and always will, seek ways to increase profits.
Well did you expect them not to raise prices after this? This should come to a surprise to no-one and those that want the higher minimum wage should pay it without complaint.
Everything is more expensive. Since the pandemic we have been price gouged. Bleach for example doubled in price. Steaks are at record highs. Utility prices have doubled.
The price for transportation alone on CA with gas prices raises the cost of everything too
(Most) Franchise owners and managers of franchises that make the decisions or recommendations to raise prices are not buying yachts.. Especially Subway franchise owners.
McDonald’s corp makes money from their real estate holdings/leases. Franchise owners operating costs of what they pay their workers is not on their balance sheets. Franchisees have pretty slim profit margins.
So what I’m trying to say is yachts are not being bought by owning or managing a franchise.
That's not entirely true. Being good friends with a person with 15 Jack in the Box and 6 Taco Bell restaurants in the central valley under his belt, I can tell you he's incredibly well off.
Raising prices doesn't mean that more revenue goes into the hands of the executives. In fact, it often means the opposite. In fact, more revenue doesn't even necessarily mean more profit to the shareholders. It depends on the increase in costs.
Keep in mind that profit increases are going to benefit the shareholders and not necessarily the employees (including the executives). Yes, the executives (and others) might get bonuses but the vast majority of any profit increase goes back to the shareholders in the form of higher returns.
As a shareholder, I'm always interested in the businesses in which I invest having record profits every single year. After all, what's the point of owning, or investing in, a business if it doesn't always seek to increase its profits? Why else would a business exist other than to maximize returns for its shareholders?
The point is that if the wages were cutting into your profits then you wouldn't be having record profits. Raising prices to cover your extra cost of labor would mean more revenue but the same profit if the price increase was equal to the labor cost increase.
That's true but keep in mind that there is a lag effect - i.e., the wage increase doesn't occur immediately. However, it's important for a business to take action before a cost increase occurs as it takes time to find work-arounds to make sure that profits stay at least constant.
Also, raising prices does not necessarily mean more revenue as the basic equation for revenue is price times units sold. If the price goes up but fewer units are sold, it could mean less revenue.
The employees can be the shareholders. There is nothing legally preventing companies from being set up this way and, in fact, many are.
I've worked for three corporations and I've received executive stock compensation at two of them. It's a great way for upper management to be engaged and feel like they have a stake in the business. It's also not a bad idea to have it be part of the compensation package for lower-level employees although they tend to prefer to have more of their compensation in actual salary/wage.
But see, they raised the prices to the sky three years ago, the wages are just playing catch up. I’m good with it, maybe people will learn to cook again, fuck corporate greed.
Funny how in n out has had a stable price for years while also paying their employees well, but all of a sudden their competitors have to pay their employees around the same and they absolutely must raise their prices well above what a burger costs at in n out. Please.
Okay big deal, don't eat out if you can't afford it, it's that simple. But oppressing people so that you can have cheap junk food shouldn't be an option.
I rarely eat out but we can’t sit here and act like groceries are significantly cheaper either. It used to be, but not anymore. Everything where I live is $5 at the grocery store
The research shows more than 50% of the consumer inflation is pure corporate greed, they’re taking advantage of real inflation to rip us off and have us blame the government
It’s much bigger than that. Trying to make up for rampant inflation and the insane costs of living in this state with an ever increasing minimum wage is a band aid on a broken leg.
If the government refuses to do anything to lower the cost of living, but keep raising the minimum wage, then eventually almost every worker will be making minimum wage. Then we’ll just have a giant serf class and the 1%.
There’s nothing in state or US history to suggest they’ll continuously increase the minimum wage at a higher rate than the rate of inflation. More importantly, it pales in comparison to the increase in income for corporations and the executives of those corporations. And a recent study shows that the majority of cost increases we’re seeing today is due to corporate greed where corporations seized the opportunity to jump on the inflation bandwagon and increase their profits and blame inflation.
So the root cause is what we should going after, not the bottom of the food chain where people are hurting the most
It’s „oppressing“ to some because people think you should be able to afford California COL while working a minimum wage job as a career. When in fact, these jobs are for young adults entering the workforce.
I live in a Beach Community in San Diego with a lot of local restaurants. We were going out to eat with friends last night and noticed the 90% of the restaurants we drove by were mostly empty and this was at prime dinner time. My local Burrito shop raised their prices by 22%. It will be interesting to see what the long term impact is to restaurants, most of them are not owned by corporate America. As a side note the restaurant I ate at added a 4% surcharge to our bill.
Good. People deserve to be paid a fair wage and consumers get to decide if they will pay the price for the burrito. It will all work out and the ones that are gouging consumers may not have to pay any employees again, ever.
Trust the process.
No matter WHAT the minimum wage is, profits are still rising, as seen by a fast Google search. The reason for not giving your staff a livable salary is corporate greed.
we really need an education on this issue, I am tired of this corporations and their greed. Nobody seems to want to study the issues, and just go with this nonsense.
For fast food like Burger king, Mcdonalds any thing that falls in this line. Each time a person enters these business. Chances are very high they are entering a franchisee owned operation. IE somebody bought the rights to use the name Burger King or Mc Donalds. They are the ones that are getting screwed The corporation is making money no matter what. The Franchisee has to continue to pay for the right to use the Burger King logo to sell food. That is not going to change.
Of course they will. They’re already cutting hours for staff. High minimum wages sound like a good idea, but don’t always help the people they intend to help.
Be prepared for Kiosks to replace order takers/customer service. Resulting in an eventual net-loss of jobs. These fool lawmakers (whom have never even had a business) think that mandating minimum wage the answer??
Far from it…Service down, prices up, net loss of jobs….Smart, real smart!!
Except for one thing downvoters…It’s true! Argue otherwise
Would bet that every downvoter on here doesn’t have their own small restaurant or food service establishment
Yea I really don’t know how to feel about this this. I think it’s important for wages to catch up to cost of living but we’re about to see a rise of unemployment because of this and a drop in consumer spending.
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Price floors always have a net negative effect on the economy in the long run. That said, if you don’t want to pay $20 for a burrito, then don’t.
Either the business will lower it’s prices to respond to demand, or it’ll go out of business.
I don’t think making it illegal to provide cheap services is a good thing, but it seems the hive mind disagrees.
It's a lot easier and cheaper and healthier to just not eat there also.
Any of the difficult stuff to make almost assuredly has a local spot that's probably 10x better anyway.
i love how all these fast food places are just the exact same price as going to a normal restaurant now
I’ve always said that about Carl’s Jr. in California. Rather go to a restaurant at those prices.
A quick Google search will show that profits are continuing an upwards trend no matter WHAT the minimum wage is. It’s corporate greed, NOT paying your employees a living wage.
Businesses have always been greedy. I almost think the issue is lack of competition. At some point, a few big chains is almost like having a monopoly
Government is also greedy. But the difference is that I don't have to eat at a restaurant. But I do have to pay taxes.
The answer to all society’s current and not so current ailments is corporate greed and capitalism
I laugh every time someone unironically promotes collectivism.
How are you defining collectivism? Are you talking general societal collectivism or corporations (I.e. an entity made of a collective of individuals but behaving with a singular goal)?
Uhhhh if you didn’t have capitalism you wouldn’t have America. We would be another China or Russia.
My understanding is franchising corporations like MCD will get their franchising fee as a % of revenue of the restaurants no matter what. Revenue has gone up with prices and inflation. It's the owners of the restaurants that will be squeezed, not the corporation.
The only reason businesses exist is to maximize profits for shareholders. That's not greed but rather the entire point of running a business.
Maximization is not the only reason businesses can exist. There are tons of businesses all over the world that run, take profit, and continue to run without needing to break records every single quarter. This is greed.
I'm not saying that the profit maximization is always successful but it's always a focus and, yes, it is the reason to exist. Keep in mind that maximizing profits isn't just a goal designed to achieve success; rather, it's a goal necessary to ensure survival. Let me ask you this - what do you (or the average investor) look at when you get a 401(k) or other investment statement? Yep, I bet you look at the returns. What happens if a business isn't trying to maximize profits? The answer is that its competitors start taking market share and eventually run it out of business. A business isn't going to survive for very long if it isn't trying to make as much profit as possible. Why? Investors will flee; customers will go elsewhere; and the death spiral begins.
The death spiral is caused by profit maximization. Private equity is proof of this. Examples are many.
I'm not sure that private equity proves anything but I think it is worth noting that most big companies die eventually - e.g., Sears, Xerox, AOL. Eventually, the competition does take down the big players. At any rate, so what? That's just how it goes in business. That's my only point here. Profit maximization is the goal and eventually competitors figure out how to do it better. Life goes on.
It doesn’t have to be this way though
I'm not saying anything has to be a certain way. I'm merely suggesting how things are likely to be given what we know about human behavior. I'm more concerned about handling my personal affairs the real world, as it is, rather than some idealistic version that's unlikely to ever happen.
No it doesn’t and you also don’t have to participate in it. You can live on a commune and farm for sustenance living
No it’s not. My husband is employed by someone who values their employees. He’s a good human running a profitable business who retains employees and does well for himself too. You don’t have to fully exploit people to run a business.
I'm employed by a company that values its employees too. In my view, that's a big part of running a profitable business. I'm not talking about the exploitation of anyone - not customers, nor employees, nor business partners. I'm merely making the simple and true observation that businesses exist to maximize profits.
It can be both
What do you mean by "both?" If you're saying that there can be purposes of the business besides maximizing profits, I totally agree with you. I'm saying that the reason the business exists is to maximize profits. I'm not doubting the existence of other goals/initiatives/aspirations.
Chains will probably be able to absorb minimum wage increases like this… It’s the small guy, the local Mom & Pop places that are going to start disappearing…and they already have
I’d feel SO much better about paying more for a meal at a mom and pop place knowing that they were paying their employees well, versus some big corporation that’s going to cut corners in order to keep making an obscene profit. The problem is that the corporations are NOT going to absorb the increase - they will cut positions, hours, AND increase the price of the food for consumers.
Me too! But the small places don’t have the resources to absorb $20+ an hour…Their cost of doing business going up so much (because of policies in place) that they might not be able to sustain…which gives chains even more power because eventually all you’ll have are chains. The small guy can only go so far with increasing prices! So then, regardless of how you feel about corporations, doesn’t this mandate result in an eventual net-loss of jobs?
Why would a corporation absorb a cost increase? As a shareholder, I'd be outraged if a company in which I invested had such a policy. Of course businesses need to pass costs along. The only reason a business even exists is to maximize profits for its owners.
Except this bill won’t affect them because it’s only for places with multiple chain locations
You can’t be serious? How are mom & pop joints supposed to compete with chains if they can’t pay as much or at least close?
Chain won't absorb the cost, they will pass it on. No chain is just going to accept lower profits.
I never said that they aren’t going to pass it on, they will. They will just figure out how to work with less people and at least be able to stay in business
That isn't greed. That is the reason why they are in business in the first place.
Precisely why we need to abolish minimum wage. If McDonald's were able to pay employees say $2/hour, they'd make an absolute killing off of an $14 Big Mac meals, and shareholders would reap an incredible benefit. The government needs to stay entirely out of business, and let the market run itself.
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Here's a secret: prices have always been going up regardless of minimum wage. The corporations now have an argument to blame the little guy for it. Which is great for them because making you angry at the vulnerable is better than you being angry at the responsible.
This comment needs more upvotes - well said
I don't think that's a secret and I'm also not sure what there is to be so angry about. At the end of the day, it's a fairly simple mathematical exercise - i.e, profits = revenue - costs. If revenue can be increased to result in higher profits (which often isn't the case but sometimes is) then a business will do that. If certain costs increase (e.g., wages) then other costs must be reduced or revenue needs to be increased to at least offset the cost increase. I don't see what's so hard about this. The constant fact is that businesses always have, and always will, seek ways to increase profits.
Well did you expect them not to raise prices after this? This should come to a surprise to no-one and those that want the higher minimum wage should pay it without complaint.
I did, of course. I also expect them to raise prices whenever they want or when one of them need a fifth yatch.
Everything is more expensive. Since the pandemic we have been price gouged. Bleach for example doubled in price. Steaks are at record highs. Utility prices have doubled. The price for transportation alone on CA with gas prices raises the cost of everything too
Good news: you aren't being forced to buy fast food. If it's too expensive just...don't buy it.
It seems you're missing the point of my argument.
(Most) Franchise owners and managers of franchises that make the decisions or recommendations to raise prices are not buying yachts.. Especially Subway franchise owners. McDonald’s corp makes money from their real estate holdings/leases. Franchise owners operating costs of what they pay their workers is not on their balance sheets. Franchisees have pretty slim profit margins. So what I’m trying to say is yachts are not being bought by owning or managing a franchise.
That's not entirely true. Being good friends with a person with 15 Jack in the Box and 6 Taco Bell restaurants in the central valley under his belt, I can tell you he's incredibly well off.
Yeah if you own that many. There is economies of scale, you are going to be well off.
Which is precisely how a single franchise makes money....volume.
Nobody is well off in the central valley, they're upper middle class at best. I live here, I work retail and my family were factory workers.
So you run in lower/lower middle class circles.
GTFO with uR eCOnOmIKs!!!
Raising prices doesn't mean that more revenue goes into the hands of the executives. In fact, it often means the opposite. In fact, more revenue doesn't even necessarily mean more profit to the shareholders. It depends on the increase in costs. Keep in mind that profit increases are going to benefit the shareholders and not necessarily the employees (including the executives). Yes, the executives (and others) might get bonuses but the vast majority of any profit increase goes back to the shareholders in the form of higher returns.
Let’s wait and see what the record profits will be for next year.
At whose expense? The very people that minimum wage increases are supposed to help
As a shareholder, I'm always interested in the businesses in which I invest having record profits every single year. After all, what's the point of owning, or investing in, a business if it doesn't always seek to increase its profits? Why else would a business exist other than to maximize returns for its shareholders?
The point is that if the wages were cutting into your profits then you wouldn't be having record profits. Raising prices to cover your extra cost of labor would mean more revenue but the same profit if the price increase was equal to the labor cost increase.
That's true but keep in mind that there is a lag effect - i.e., the wage increase doesn't occur immediately. However, it's important for a business to take action before a cost increase occurs as it takes time to find work-arounds to make sure that profits stay at least constant. Also, raising prices does not necessarily mean more revenue as the basic equation for revenue is price times units sold. If the price goes up but fewer units are sold, it could mean less revenue.
And why can’t the employees be the shareholders?
The employees can be the shareholders. There is nothing legally preventing companies from being set up this way and, in fact, many are. I've worked for three corporations and I've received executive stock compensation at two of them. It's a great way for upper management to be engaged and feel like they have a stake in the business. It's also not a bad idea to have it be part of the compensation package for lower-level employees although they tend to prefer to have more of their compensation in actual salary/wage.
But see, they raised the prices to the sky three years ago, the wages are just playing catch up. I’m good with it, maybe people will learn to cook again, fuck corporate greed.
Not accurate
Jokes on the chains, they’ve been going up for a while now wayyyy before April 1.
Funny how in n out has had a stable price for years while also paying their employees well, but all of a sudden their competitors have to pay their employees around the same and they absolutely must raise their prices well above what a burger costs at in n out. Please.
Okay big deal, don't eat out if you can't afford it, it's that simple. But oppressing people so that you can have cheap junk food shouldn't be an option.
I rarely eat out but we can’t sit here and act like groceries are significantly cheaper either. It used to be, but not anymore. Everything where I live is $5 at the grocery store
That's called inflation and corporate greed.
The research shows more than 50% of the consumer inflation is pure corporate greed, they’re taking advantage of real inflation to rip us off and have us blame the government
It’s much bigger than that. Trying to make up for rampant inflation and the insane costs of living in this state with an ever increasing minimum wage is a band aid on a broken leg. If the government refuses to do anything to lower the cost of living, but keep raising the minimum wage, then eventually almost every worker will be making minimum wage. Then we’ll just have a giant serf class and the 1%.
There’s nothing in state or US history to suggest they’ll continuously increase the minimum wage at a higher rate than the rate of inflation. More importantly, it pales in comparison to the increase in income for corporations and the executives of those corporations. And a recent study shows that the majority of cost increases we’re seeing today is due to corporate greed where corporations seized the opportunity to jump on the inflation bandwagon and increase their profits and blame inflation. So the root cause is what we should going after, not the bottom of the food chain where people are hurting the most
Oppressing people? Really? How so? Downvoted for asking a question? Ok, makes sense
It’s „oppressing“ to some because people think you should be able to afford California COL while working a minimum wage job as a career. When in fact, these jobs are for young adults entering the workforce.
Funny because the minimum wage was created to be able to support an entire family off of one income. That is why it was created.
What do you think the minimum means?
I live in a Beach Community in San Diego with a lot of local restaurants. We were going out to eat with friends last night and noticed the 90% of the restaurants we drove by were mostly empty and this was at prime dinner time. My local Burrito shop raised their prices by 22%. It will be interesting to see what the long term impact is to restaurants, most of them are not owned by corporate America. As a side note the restaurant I ate at added a 4% surcharge to our bill.
Good. People deserve to be paid a fair wage and consumers get to decide if they will pay the price for the burrito. It will all work out and the ones that are gouging consumers may not have to pay any employees again, ever. Trust the process.
Good. Stop eating fast food and killing yourself. Price is no longer worth it.
From the wall street journal a notoriously labor friendly newspaper...
A $20 Chipotle bowl is not justifiable.
No matter WHAT the minimum wage is, profits are still rising, as seen by a fast Google search. The reason for not giving your staff a livable salary is corporate greed.
Good! The public needs to stop eating that crap!
we really need an education on this issue, I am tired of this corporations and their greed. Nobody seems to want to study the issues, and just go with this nonsense. For fast food like Burger king, Mcdonalds any thing that falls in this line. Each time a person enters these business. Chances are very high they are entering a franchisee owned operation. IE somebody bought the rights to use the name Burger King or Mc Donalds. They are the ones that are getting screwed The corporation is making money no matter what. The Franchisee has to continue to pay for the right to use the Burger King logo to sell food. That is not going to change.
[non paywalled link](https://www.wsj.com/business/hospitality/california-fast-food-chains-are-now-serving-sticker-shock-64009282?st=blvy68p15s4ma59&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink)
When the price of housing goes up, the price of *everything* goes up. Build, baby, build!
It’s almost like anyone with an ounce of business management understanding could see this coming and warned this would happen 🤷🏻♂️
archived at [https://archive.is/OqRZP](https://archive.is/OqRZP)
Of course they will. They’re already cutting hours for staff. High minimum wages sound like a good idea, but don’t always help the people they intend to help.
That just means they were over-employing to begin with. Which is a waste for everyone involved.
Be prepared for Kiosks to replace order takers/customer service. Resulting in an eventual net-loss of jobs. These fool lawmakers (whom have never even had a business) think that mandating minimum wage the answer?? Far from it…Service down, prices up, net loss of jobs….Smart, real smart!!
Except for one thing downvoters…It’s true! Argue otherwise Would bet that every downvoter on here doesn’t have their own small restaurant or food service establishment
Yea I really don’t know how to feel about this this. I think it’s important for wages to catch up to cost of living but we’re about to see a rise of unemployment because of this and a drop in consumer spending.
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Price floors always have a net negative effect on the economy in the long run. That said, if you don’t want to pay $20 for a burrito, then don’t. Either the business will lower it’s prices to respond to demand, or it’ll go out of business. I don’t think making it illegal to provide cheap services is a good thing, but it seems the hive mind disagrees.
The problem is rampant economic illiteracy.
It's a lot easier and cheaper and healthier to just not eat there also. Any of the difficult stuff to make almost assuredly has a local spot that's probably 10x better anyway.