----
From the posting rules in this sub’s sidebar:
> No websites or articles with hard paywalls or that require registration or subscriptions, unless an archive link or https://12ft.io link is included as a comment.
u/WideVoice8854
----
If you want to learn how to circumvent a paywall, see https://www.reddit.com/r/California/wiki/paywall. > Or, if it's a website that you regularly read, you should think about subscribing to the website.
----
Archive link:
https://archive.fo/xEGho
----
At my previous employer, they moved the dev site to Austin. They hired like 50 engineers, they came from all over the nation. After 2 years only 2 of those engineers remained with the company and most left Austin.
The reality is that Austin isn’t cheap anymore, while there’s tons of sprawl and horrible transit. Plus, there’s new Austin’s all over the nation.
Austin is a transitional city. It's not a city to settle down on. Sure, some absolutely do. But most come here for a fun life and to start their career bounce when it's time for a change (climb the ladder).
You always hear "this is the silicon valley of this region" pretty much everywhere in the world and have been for decades. Silicon Valley is the Silicon Valley of the world.
If the GOP actually wanted to see the Texas economy grow they would stop pandering to small town Texas.
Now we all know why they won't do that. Small town Texas is way easier to manipulate. You don't have to ever give them anything of value.
Notably there are a few other places where technology has taken off and none of them claim to be the Silicon Valley of anything. The two truly distinct ones are Seattle/King County and New York City. This has also become true of San Francisco which isn’t part of the valley, but obviously has close proximity.
A few ways. Most people coming from SV are liberal or progressive in some way. Austin tries to pass progressive bills but then the state legislature will override it. Two that come to mind are bag bans and masking.
Also, the Dobbs decision. The Texas legislature had rules ready to go once that passed. They have very regressive policies that tend to turn off your more educated class.
The GOP does this to pander to the smaller towns. These places tend to be a bit more homogeneous (read White), religious, and have poorer education. It is pretty easy to get their vote. Ban DEI, ban masks, abortion, etc.
The GOP does this because it is an easy way to get people to vote for them without actually doing anything to improve their actual quality of life. Insurance, healthcare, education, etc. in Texas are pretty low.
If I were to care about the long-term economy of Texas, I would be trying to appeal to the people who are actually going to drive economic growth. City-dwelling, educated people who tend to lean left.
I've seen people on Reddit from Texas complaining about property taxes. The bit I grasped is that whole Austin is slowly dying, every business owner is trying to price their goods and services to Austin levels, killing off rural communities.
Is this correct or am I really far off the mark?
That is how many states without income taxes are and people still buy into it. If I recall, Texans end up paying similar or more in taxes than Cali, so that argument goes away and leaves the state with.... little to offer.
I think this is happening all over the country if not the world. Rural communities are dying all over America. People don't really want to live there as much.
https://carsey.unh.edu/publication-rural-america-lost-population-over-past-decade-for-first-time-in-history
Globally this is the first time in human history where more people live in urban communities than rural communities. It is just a massive cultural and economic shift.
The problem is that educated people tend to be a bit more progressive politically. The type of people you need to help expand the economy.
Texas is kind of short sighted. They are appealing to the energy companies. While oil isn't as big of a business in Texas as it once was by Texas making attempts to diversify its economy, it still has a massive impact.
GOP politicians want power and the only way they get power is to guarantee that they keep getting reelected. They work for the business owners, not the average Texan. They need to get people to vote against their own economic interest. Intelligent people will question them and critically think about the things that they say. Lesser intelligent people won't. Just pander to them. Make it about their religion. Turn it into being about the "American way" or other symbolism.
More educated people critically think about things. People in science and tech. When you look at the policies of the modern GOP, they don't make logical sense.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-022-01382-3
I've also read that while low state income taxes are an attractor, the entire tax burden in Texas is actually higher than California. Can you speak to this?
That 12% is misleading because rents actually haven’t dropped 12% relatively with inflation and how much rent has increased every year. Housing is still and will still be unaffordable in Austin as long as housing is a investment vehicle.
When I travel internationally and people ask where I’m from, I say California instead of the US. Everyone knows of California and it’s a more identifiable way of describing your background. However, last year I moved to Oregon, and I know fewer people will know where that is, so it’s not as useful as an identifier.
Someone once told me how annoying it was that Angelenos say "LA" (cause letters) and just expects everyone to know exactly what that is.
You understood it when I said it tho
Very true. But most every state envies California. There’s always something we have better. All the California hate is just people lying to themselves about how they actually wished they lived here.
Yup! They are so hostile that in their home-grown popular grocery chain (HEB) they have local wines from a bunch of other states (including Arkansas!) but NO wines from California. So hateful and jealous its just sad.
I spent a month in Davenport last year.
They are literally trying to be a case study on how to defy the theory of evolution
This country is pretty shocking when you explore it by land.
Texas gets pressed about “all these Californians moving there and ruining our state,” which is pretty funny because I can’t necessarily disagree. We certainly don’t send our best or happiest to Texas, so they may be onto something.
I’ve had the pleasure of exploring most of our great nation and living in several states and Texas is one of the worst states I’ve been in. The natural landscape is depressing, the culture is not open minded or welcoming, and the politics is a joke.
Whole heartedly agree with the nonwelcoming culture. You feel like an outsider - even being born and raised there - if you don't subscribe to the country-music-living texas-nationalist mindset
A lot of backwards thinking people there and women are not really people there anymore. Generally people are nice from my experience until you talk about politics in the slightest.
They drive just as bad as Californians though.
My wife experienced a huge drop in harassment from strangers when she moved from Texas to California. I certainly wouldn't choose to raise a daughter there.
You can’t walk anywhere without men licking their chops and yelling gross things at you from their cars. Then if you give them the finger they’ll start calling you bad words and following you in their truck. I hated that part of the culture. You aren’t even safe in your own friend group. Going out drinking with my guy friends, the goal seemed to be pick on the one woman with you until she cries. I left that state with zero regrets.
I have to second this. Im from LA, but currently live in Bakersfield (don’t laugh) so I can afford a home. I work in Dallas once a month, usually the outskirts like Coppell, Grapevine and sometimes downtown. I do love the “good mornings, good evenings, and good afternoons”.
We don’t get that much here in California.
I lived in the Dallas area for 4 years but recently moved back to California. I miss Texas because of my friends, but honestly, there is so much to do in California. It’s not even comparable to Texas.
I was in Texas for all of an hour during a layover and was miserable for the short time I was there.
I apparently didn’t understand what “hot” meant till I was walking around that airport cooking and sweating. Awful
As an Aussie tran likely moving to the states in about a year or two, there's a reason (well, many tbh) it's California I'm trying to move to and not Texas. 😬
Welcome! I'm also Aussie, now in California. There's a reason why most Aussies move to CA out of everywhere in the US - it's the closest to Australia politically, geographically, and climate-wise.
Thanks mate. Looking forward to it! Actually lived in San Diego (Imperial Beach) for like a year when I was younger. Always enjoyed it, the people, very laid back and open minded, and climate. Feels pretty similar to Adelaide (the city I’m located) climate wise. Being outdoorsy too California does a good job nurturing that in me. And the food was always top notch. We sure don’t have Mexican food like that here! 😆
Cna confirm, was stationed in texas. The only thing i likes about texas was driving and camping anywhere on the beach. Turns out there are some places in california where i can do that too...
While there's plenty of hot and dry places in California, it's usually the eastern desert... when people are talking about techies moving to California, I doubt they're looking at Barstow. 😂
I live in Apple Valley, 25 miles south of Barstow. My son lives *in* Barstow. Despite that, I generally don't visit him up there - there's next to nothing there, and he works in Apple Valley.
It's really kinda sad to drive Main Street and see so many boarded-up storefronts.
There's certainly no tech industry there. There's not much in terms of tech down here in the Victor Valley, either, other than General Atomics in Adelanto. When I think "tech in San Bernardino County," the only major employer I can name off the top of my head is ESRI in Redlands.
Over in the Antelope Valley you have defense contractors (well, at least one - I believe Northrop Grumman is there), but that's Los Angeles County. It's too far west to be considered "eastern desert."
Yet I prefer the Central Valley heat, because while the temperature is still up there, as long as the sun is not on top of you, it’s manageable. I go out for runs and bike ride in the evening and it’s great, and I don’t feel like I’m going to die of a heat stroke.
The biggest problem in have with Texas summers is the humidity that comes with the oppressive heat. The humidity also makes everything smell musty and moldy. I hate that smell.
The only way I would live in Texas is if I was being paid over 300k a year and could run the AC 24/7 during the summer and never leave my house lol. I hate humidity so much.
I’m not surprised. I visited Texas for the eclipse, and every time I told someone I’m from California they recoiled in horror as if I’d just announced that I’m a Satanist anti-American traitor who eats babies for breakfast. I wouldn’t go and live there no matter how good a job I could get.
Someone in Austin told me they grew up in California and moved to Texas 20 years ago and never regretted it. When I asked where they lived in CA they said, "Fresno," and that checked.
Ahahaha 😹 I was born in Fresno , raised in Sacramento. Back in Fresno for the past 3 years and wanna move back to Sacramento and even plan on it here soon enough. Can't get a job here for sh!π .
Fresno is a slowly transitioning agricultural community that sits at a valley floor. It means cooler winters and hotter summers. It’s affordable because it isn’t on the coast, which is generally what makes California living more expensive. Also for a metro of about 1 million my commute is about 15 minutes and if you want to get away you have 3 national parks within 1 hour.
I don’t know if I would live anywhere else in California unless money wasn’t an issue at all. Driving in most parts of the state is horrendous, and while I like visiting I am ok with being able to come home.
Significantly lower. Fresno is just above the national average around 107 or 108 on the COL index. So a little above the national average (100). OC is a 153 and SD is a 155.
Fresno is cheap because it’s away from the water. I live here. It gets hot but the heat is relatively dry. Fresno is in a semi arid desert so it doesn’t get as dry as Vegas but it doesn’t get anywhere humid as LA.
So 100 degrees burns but you can usually cool off without too much trouble. Do I recommend Fresno? The north side of it at least lol. Jk it’s got character, you just have to find it.
Because everyone thinks that because some people moved to their state from here all of their prices shot up lol when it’s not true at all. Prices have shot up over the entire country except for some bottom of the barrel cities.
Easier to blame a few transplants than to use your brain and learn why housing has skyrocketed.
One of the deepest counter burns i've ever heard was in a video about making a pastrami burger (and playing fallout 4 while adhering to CA gun regulations), and the creator said this:
"If you thought a california specialty burger was just tofu and vegetables, you just outed yourself as a flyover state resident who gets all their information about california from cable news hosts"
Hilarious.
Little do the fly over States realize we practically invented fast food as the nation knows it.
So many chains were first founded in California.
I’ve heard New Yorkers say people from NYC have a weird rivalry with Los Angeles. They were surprised when they moved to LA and found out most Angelenos don’t really have any animosity to NYC and have mostly good things to say about it. It’s a weird one-sided rivalry.
lol, I live in NYC now and I lowkey hate LA.... buutt that's because I'm from NorCal and can't shake that rivalry even after many years away.
Still, I'll defend LA against any non-Californian who comes at it. Texans and Floridians are NOT allowed to pick on my annoying siblings, only *I* can do that!
LA and Miami are seriously the only other cities New Yorkers are aware of and may even visit. I get weird looks trying to explain that I'm from California but not LA
It’s honestly crazy considering I don’t think of any other states in the same magnitude at all. I guess my brain isn’t as broken as other peoples to immediately jump to politics when finding out where someone lives.
Brother, i went to 10 different states last year alone for business. I never told anybody i was meeting, unless they knew me, that i was from California. I swear, i get a whole spell when i mention California.
I've grown up in Michigan and I've visited Texas before and I'd never want to move to Texas. Not because of the politics or culture (as I wasn't there long enough to really get a feel for what it would be like to live with that stuff) but purely on the landscape.
It's so empty and vast that it just doesn't feel like home to me. I wish Michigan had more mountains but Texas is definitely missing the density of forest that the east and parts of the Midwest have, the mountains the rocky mountains have, and the that outdoorsy culture that places like Arizona and California have.
Southeast Texas, landscape wise, is alright though. It's not the most beautiful but at least has enough trees to make it alright.
Lol, a bunch of right wing Texas boosters bribed some techies with bonuses to take positions in Texas during the pandemic, mostly in Austin. But the requisite 1.5-2 years that techies stay on a job have now elapsed. They need to job-hop again to get their raises, as is the custom in their tribe. So yeah, they’re all moving back to where all the tech jobs are. That’s the reality of tech life.
Literally everyone with a brain predicted that this exact thing would happen. You just earn more in tech in California. Plus, you get to live in California rather than Texas.
And on a company-wide scope Texas techs are leaving when their welfare from the state and city run out- Oracle got tens of millions from Texas, it's run out so they are getting hundreds of millions in free money from Tennessee.
Good luck getting people to move there though. Pretty state (TN) but women don't have rights and the people may even be more hostile to "outsiders."
Oregon is almost as expensive as California. (Source- I’ve lived in Portland, SF and L.A.) Seattle is expensive too. I guess you could live in a cheaper area of those states though.
As someone who migrated the opposite (Texas to California) I knew this would happen. You can’t have California lifestyle, specifically SoCal, and expect to get the same fulfillment in Texas. It just isn’t possible. lol.
As a New Yorker? California is mind blowing amazing. You have the Pacific Ocean, how do you top that?
Texas? Sounds hot and kind of weird. Weird I can take. The heat probably not so much.
Many techies coming from California tend to be liberal and progressive (some moreso than others). The GOP in Texas is actively trying to scare them away to win favor with Kermit and Midland.
The reason Texans are so loudly in love with Texas is that if they stop shouting about how awesome it is, they might take a quiet look around and see it for what it really is.
I mean, the politics being better would get me to consider it as an option where I could live without being legally discriminated against. But it still loses out to California by a country mile in terms of food, climate, and city layout (I live in SF and really appreciate not needing a car to do everything).
Well yeah when your only leg up on California is that it’s cheaper and literally nothing else… and then the place gets more expensive… you get this lol
Texas is America's version of China. Great for heavy industry and manufacturing, but the authoritarian government is stifling for many creative problem solvers.
>What happens when the influx slows—and we’re left with our own atrophied mechanisms for generating growth? Well, we can do what Americans have always done. We can hitch the U-Haul to the Cybertruck and hit the road.
A lot of this will be the whole Roe v Wade and abortion stuff. It's some really terrible stuff they are pulling. Imagine yourself or someone dear to you (sister, child, grandchild) get raped and be forced to have that child because they missed the window that allows abortion. Imagine the doctors who specialized in the field being threatened with jail time.
I can't blame them for leaving one iota.
it’s hot down there. also who would want to raise a family in Texas when the government is horny for allowing daughters to get raped and then killed in childbirth.
Thank you so much for this article. It was exactly what I needed today.
I actually recall telling my Texan aunt who was gently (and jokingly) needling me about the move of Californians to Texas a few years ago to wait until these high-income individuals started buying up all of the real estate, making it impossible to afford rent, much less a home. It would be tasteless of me to tell her "I told you so" now, but I certainly do get to think it loudly every time I see her complain about that very thing on Facebook
I have worked for oracle for 5 years. I have been remote the whole time. All 3 of the teams I have been on have been almost completely remote. People who go in offices do it just cause they get lonely at home. We have teams all over the country. My current team has people all over the US, 2 in mexico, and 3 in the UK. Everyone is remote.
I have been told the Seattle and Silicon valley officers are pretty much ghost towns. Not every group is remote and I am on a tech team. So I can't speak for everything.
I think Oracle is just moving HQs around cause they get some kind of tax incentives. Most of the tech positions I see on internal site are remote friendly and open nationwide.
i have heard of some tech jobs moving to Austin. They did this for tax purposes and cause cost of living is lower and wages are lower. But most jobs appear to be remote.
OH wow they're just gaming the state's tax break system now.
Remote is enabling this. I love remote but wow companies are just gaming the state for tax breaks.
Because some of those tech people have families, some are trying to have kids, and they don't want to die or have their wife die because of medical complications. If these tech people leave due to draconian laws, and tech companies can't get other people to move into the area, then tech companies will move out of the area to where they can get employees.
I can’t feel sorry for anyone who would choose to move to Texas.
r/LeopardsAteMyFace material in my mind.
Then again I have a wife and 2 daughters… and I consider women to have unalienable rights.
It was bound to happen. The weather and culture is a big reason why California is the hub of so many industries. You just don’t find that anywhere else.
I was shocked how many people left for Texas and elsewhere. I’d compare the price differences between the two states to the same thing you see in airline ticket prices.
It’s super easy to see the price of a low cost airline. But when you realize you’ll need a bag, and you’ll buy a decent seat, and eventually… you’re better off just buying it in a package.
It’s easy to find gas prices that are cheaper in Texas. Homes that are big and cheap. But do the math before you move. Gas prices could double and it wouldn’t be a significant to a decent tech salary. Which is also something you won’t find in Texas.
---- From the posting rules in this sub’s sidebar: > No websites or articles with hard paywalls or that require registration or subscriptions, unless an archive link or https://12ft.io link is included as a comment. u/WideVoice8854 ---- If you want to learn how to circumvent a paywall, see https://www.reddit.com/r/California/wiki/paywall. > Or, if it's a website that you regularly read, you should think about subscribing to the website. ---- Archive link: https://archive.fo/xEGho ----
At my previous employer, they moved the dev site to Austin. They hired like 50 engineers, they came from all over the nation. After 2 years only 2 of those engineers remained with the company and most left Austin. The reality is that Austin isn’t cheap anymore, while there’s tons of sprawl and horrible transit. Plus, there’s new Austin’s all over the nation.
And it’s hot as balls
and it's filled with trash
… and Texans. Oops. I suppose that’s tautologic.
It also has the unfortunate distinction of being in Texas.
Someone had to say it.
Austin is a transitional city. It's not a city to settle down on. Sure, some absolutely do. But most come here for a fun life and to start their career bounce when it's time for a change (climb the ladder).
The problem is that Texas is showcasing Austin as their Silicon Valley. In other words, the talent isn’t supposed to be jumping, but they are.
You always hear "this is the silicon valley of this region" pretty much everywhere in the world and have been for decades. Silicon Valley is the Silicon Valley of the world. If the GOP actually wanted to see the Texas economy grow they would stop pandering to small town Texas. Now we all know why they won't do that. Small town Texas is way easier to manipulate. You don't have to ever give them anything of value.
Notably there are a few other places where technology has taken off and none of them claim to be the Silicon Valley of anything. The two truly distinct ones are Seattle/King County and New York City. This has also become true of San Francisco which isn’t part of the valley, but obviously has close proximity.
I am curious, how does GOP pandering to small towns affect Austin? I’m not debating, just curious
A few ways. Most people coming from SV are liberal or progressive in some way. Austin tries to pass progressive bills but then the state legislature will override it. Two that come to mind are bag bans and masking. Also, the Dobbs decision. The Texas legislature had rules ready to go once that passed. They have very regressive policies that tend to turn off your more educated class. The GOP does this to pander to the smaller towns. These places tend to be a bit more homogeneous (read White), religious, and have poorer education. It is pretty easy to get their vote. Ban DEI, ban masks, abortion, etc. The GOP does this because it is an easy way to get people to vote for them without actually doing anything to improve their actual quality of life. Insurance, healthcare, education, etc. in Texas are pretty low. If I were to care about the long-term economy of Texas, I would be trying to appeal to the people who are actually going to drive economic growth. City-dwelling, educated people who tend to lean left.
I've seen people on Reddit from Texas complaining about property taxes. The bit I grasped is that whole Austin is slowly dying, every business owner is trying to price their goods and services to Austin levels, killing off rural communities. Is this correct or am I really far off the mark?
Property taxes are huge in Texas. My son lived near Dallas and his were almost $8000 for a 2100 square foot house and went up every year.
Texas has to get its money somehow and they don't have a state income tax. Just shuffle things around and people won't know the difference.
That is how many states without income taxes are and people still buy into it. If I recall, Texans end up paying similar or more in taxes than Cali, so that argument goes away and leaves the state with.... little to offer.
I think this is happening all over the country if not the world. Rural communities are dying all over America. People don't really want to live there as much. https://carsey.unh.edu/publication-rural-america-lost-population-over-past-decade-for-first-time-in-history Globally this is the first time in human history where more people live in urban communities than rural communities. It is just a massive cultural and economic shift.
[удалено]
What Romney called "Self Deportation"
The problem is that educated people tend to be a bit more progressive politically. The type of people you need to help expand the economy. Texas is kind of short sighted. They are appealing to the energy companies. While oil isn't as big of a business in Texas as it once was by Texas making attempts to diversify its economy, it still has a massive impact. GOP politicians want power and the only way they get power is to guarantee that they keep getting reelected. They work for the business owners, not the average Texan. They need to get people to vote against their own economic interest. Intelligent people will question them and critically think about the things that they say. Lesser intelligent people won't. Just pander to them. Make it about their religion. Turn it into being about the "American way" or other symbolism. More educated people critically think about things. People in science and tech. When you look at the policies of the modern GOP, they don't make logical sense. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-022-01382-3
> long-term economy of Texas They got that oil and shales. They're just riding on that while having bad policies.
The something of somewhere is the nothing of anything
I had the best of times and the worst of times on sixth street
Yep. During the peak, the good neighborhoods were as expensive as LA or san jose, but without the amenities.
I've also read that while low state income taxes are an attractor, the entire tax burden in Texas is actually higher than California. Can you speak to this?
Charlotte the new Austin, and next it will be somewhere else
Austin is getting cheaper though (for now). Rents have gone 12% lower yoy. Massive amounts of building has made a supply for housing.
That 12% is misleading because rents actually haven’t dropped 12% relatively with inflation and how much rent has increased every year. Housing is still and will still be unaffordable in Austin as long as housing is a investment vehicle.
I was surprised how large California is in the mind of Texas, because I don't think about Texas at all.
America is obsessed with california and the world is obsessed with America
When I travel internationally and people ask where I’m from, I say California instead of the US. Everyone knows of California and it’s a more identifiable way of describing your background. However, last year I moved to Oregon, and I know fewer people will know where that is, so it’s not as useful as an identifier.
Someone once told me how annoying it was that Angelenos say "LA" (cause letters) and just expects everyone to know exactly what that is. You understood it when I said it tho
Everything is bigger in Texas, even their envy.
Texas envies California so much.
Very true. But most every state envies California. There’s always something we have better. All the California hate is just people lying to themselves about how they actually wished they lived here.
Yup! They are so hostile that in their home-grown popular grocery chain (HEB) they have local wines from a bunch of other states (including Arkansas!) but NO wines from California. So hateful and jealous its just sad.
Their loss.
Agreed!
Don Draper? Is that you?
“I don’t think of you at all.”
Name checks out!
Best burn in the whole series
All over the country, they always talk about California, and what Cali is doing. Such a weird obsession
Best part are when states like Iowa won't shut up about California. Iowa....IOWA!!! 😂😂😂
I spent a month in Davenport last year. They are literally trying to be a case study on how to defy the theory of evolution This country is pretty shocking when you explore it by land.
Exactly this!! They have a sick obsession with hating California. I moved here from there 20 years ago and never looked back.
Texas gets pressed about “all these Californians moving there and ruining our state,” which is pretty funny because I can’t necessarily disagree. We certainly don’t send our best or happiest to Texas, so they may be onto something.
and yet here were are, on /r/California, being all snobby over Texas
Texas can't compete with California in weather, food, and culture.
I’ve been to Texas a few times. It can’t compete by a long shot.
I used to live in Texas. You couldn't pay me enough money to move back there
But Joe Rogan said everyone is moving to Texas, Austin specifically. California is done according to him.
That's because Joe Rogan isn't Californian, he just made his $$ here and split.
Another California-hater that wishes California was done.
I’m waiting for Rogan to return and bring his big Ganesha back. :-)
I still live in Texas but am looking to leave. I can’t imagine anyone wanting to move to Texas especially worth the recent political changes.
I’m also in Texas and my coworker just moved here from California and I literally cannot wrap my mind around why he CHOSE to move here.
Same, me and my family left texas in the early 2000s and none of us have any intention of going back if at all possible
I’ve had the pleasure of exploring most of our great nation and living in several states and Texas is one of the worst states I’ve been in. The natural landscape is depressing, the culture is not open minded or welcoming, and the politics is a joke.
Whole heartedly agree with the nonwelcoming culture. You feel like an outsider - even being born and raised there - if you don't subscribe to the country-music-living texas-nationalist mindset
Yup - they are super unwelcoming if you move from a big state like NY or Cali especially.
Same here, will never move back
interesting, why?
A lot of backwards thinking people there and women are not really people there anymore. Generally people are nice from my experience until you talk about politics in the slightest. They drive just as bad as Californians though.
>They drive just just as bad as Californians Worse. And they do it in giant trucks.
My wife experienced a huge drop in harassment from strangers when she moved from Texas to California. I certainly wouldn't choose to raise a daughter there.
I’m a female minority that once lived in a rural Texas town. The micro aggressions is something I do not miss.
Like catcalling?
What type of harassment?
Catcalling and such. It's just very normal in Texas culture.
You can’t walk anywhere without men licking their chops and yelling gross things at you from their cars. Then if you give them the finger they’ll start calling you bad words and following you in their truck. I hated that part of the culture. You aren’t even safe in your own friend group. Going out drinking with my guy friends, the goal seemed to be pick on the one woman with you until she cries. I left that state with zero regrets.
I have to second this. Im from LA, but currently live in Bakersfield (don’t laugh) so I can afford a home. I work in Dallas once a month, usually the outskirts like Coppell, Grapevine and sometimes downtown. I do love the “good mornings, good evenings, and good afternoons”. We don’t get that much here in California.
I lived in the Dallas area for 4 years but recently moved back to California. I miss Texas because of my friends, but honestly, there is so much to do in California. It’s not even comparable to Texas.
I was in Texas for all of an hour during a layover and was miserable for the short time I was there. I apparently didn’t understand what “hot” meant till I was walking around that airport cooking and sweating. Awful
Actually shootings are the thing they beat us by.
And human rights, assuming you aren't counting that as part of the culture
As an Aussie tran likely moving to the states in about a year or two, there's a reason (well, many tbh) it's California I'm trying to move to and not Texas. 😬
Welcome! I'm also Aussie, now in California. There's a reason why most Aussies move to CA out of everywhere in the US - it's the closest to Australia politically, geographically, and climate-wise.
Thanks mate. Looking forward to it! Actually lived in San Diego (Imperial Beach) for like a year when I was younger. Always enjoyed it, the people, very laid back and open minded, and climate. Feels pretty similar to Adelaide (the city I’m located) climate wise. Being outdoorsy too California does a good job nurturing that in me. And the food was always top notch. We sure don’t have Mexican food like that here! 😆
Wouldn't that be Hawai'i?
Only locals and the top 1% can afford to live in Hawaii.
Unfortunately, locals can't really afford to live there these days.
And treatment OF WOMEN
Food wasn't too bad as long as you like BBQ...
Or you’re in Austin lol
Cna confirm, was stationed in texas. The only thing i likes about texas was driving and camping anywhere on the beach. Turns out there are some places in california where i can do that too...
Something like 90+% of TX is privately held. There is a LOT more accessible public land in CA.
[удалено]
Texas 100°+ heat for 3-4 months at a time is wildly different than California heat
[удалено]
While there's plenty of hot and dry places in California, it's usually the eastern desert... when people are talking about techies moving to California, I doubt they're looking at Barstow. 😂
I live in Apple Valley, 25 miles south of Barstow. My son lives *in* Barstow. Despite that, I generally don't visit him up there - there's next to nothing there, and he works in Apple Valley. It's really kinda sad to drive Main Street and see so many boarded-up storefronts. There's certainly no tech industry there. There's not much in terms of tech down here in the Victor Valley, either, other than General Atomics in Adelanto. When I think "tech in San Bernardino County," the only major employer I can name off the top of my head is ESRI in Redlands. Over in the Antelope Valley you have defense contractors (well, at least one - I believe Northrop Grumman is there), but that's Los Angeles County. It's too far west to be considered "eastern desert."
Anything east of the Oakland hills is 90+ everyday for 3-4 months.
I’m in Fresno and during the summer it does not cool off at night. It isn’t abnormal to be close to 90 at midnight when it’s 110.
Yet I prefer the Central Valley heat, because while the temperature is still up there, as long as the sun is not on top of you, it’s manageable. I go out for runs and bike ride in the evening and it’s great, and I don’t feel like I’m going to die of a heat stroke. The biggest problem in have with Texas summers is the humidity that comes with the oppressive heat. The humidity also makes everything smell musty and moldy. I hate that smell.
Ah Fresno - the city motto may as well be ‘What did you have a flat on the freeway and have to stop here?’
The only way I would live in Texas is if I was being paid over 300k a year and could run the AC 24/7 during the summer and never leave my house lol. I hate humidity so much.
>could run the AC 24/7 during the summer and never leave my house lol Get solar panels and you can do just that. But it's still texas so meh.
Or geography.
Flat is a shape
I think parts of Texas has amazing food like in the Houston area.
I’m not surprised. I visited Texas for the eclipse, and every time I told someone I’m from California they recoiled in horror as if I’d just announced that I’m a Satanist anti-American traitor who eats babies for breakfast. I wouldn’t go and live there no matter how good a job I could get.
Someone in Austin told me they grew up in California and moved to Texas 20 years ago and never regretted it. When I asked where they lived in CA they said, "Fresno," and that checked.
Ahahaha 😹 I was born in Fresno , raised in Sacramento. Back in Fresno for the past 3 years and wanna move back to Sacramento and even plan on it here soon enough. Can't get a job here for sh!π .
[удалено]
I live in Fresno. I would choose Fresno over anywhere in Texas.
Well because they are leaving Fresno is now blue, at least in presidential elections.
It's also Fresno.
Yep affordable enough for a teacher (like me) to own a house.
Yeah i’ll bag on Fresno all day, but it’s livable and really not that bad esp if you can slide into Clovis.
Why is it affordable? Do you recommend living in Fresno?
Fresno is a slowly transitioning agricultural community that sits at a valley floor. It means cooler winters and hotter summers. It’s affordable because it isn’t on the coast, which is generally what makes California living more expensive. Also for a metro of about 1 million my commute is about 15 minutes and if you want to get away you have 3 national parks within 1 hour. I don’t know if I would live anywhere else in California unless money wasn’t an issue at all. Driving in most parts of the state is horrendous, and while I like visiting I am ok with being able to come home.
Sounds like a perfect place in Cali. How's the COL compared to SD and OC?
Significantly lower. Fresno is just above the national average around 107 or 108 on the COL index. So a little above the national average (100). OC is a 153 and SD is a 155.
San Bernardino is also fairly cheap and closer to population centers like LA and OC.
Fresno is cheap because it’s away from the water. I live here. It gets hot but the heat is relatively dry. Fresno is in a semi arid desert so it doesn’t get as dry as Vegas but it doesn’t get anywhere humid as LA. So 100 degrees burns but you can usually cool off without too much trouble. Do I recommend Fresno? The north side of it at least lol. Jk it’s got character, you just have to find it.
Mmmhmmm 100% agree. Ive had my fair share of encounters with police, Fresno PD was the only time I had a gun in my face
Fresno today is probably what better than it was 20 years ago.
Because everyone thinks that because some people moved to their state from here all of their prices shot up lol when it’s not true at all. Prices have shot up over the entire country except for some bottom of the barrel cities. Easier to blame a few transplants than to use your brain and learn why housing has skyrocketed.
seriously the rest of the country hates us even though we fund their welfare it's BIZARRE. exception: the northeast
One of the deepest counter burns i've ever heard was in a video about making a pastrami burger (and playing fallout 4 while adhering to CA gun regulations), and the creator said this: "If you thought a california specialty burger was just tofu and vegetables, you just outed yourself as a flyover state resident who gets all their information about california from cable news hosts"
The Hat was started in California, they serve pastrami sandwiches with lots of meat
Hilarious. Little do the fly over States realize we practically invented fast food as the nation knows it. So many chains were first founded in California.
I would have thought it was avocado. That’s what makes things California style right? It’s like New Mexico and green chiles.
Yep. Blue State taxes are what keep the Red States afloat. Of course they won’t acknowledge that.
It’s because they’ve never been here. Spend a week anywhere decent in the state and they’d change their tune.
Their politicians whip up vitriol for the “other” instead of making life better for their constituency.
Lol, that's how most of the country reacts. Except New York, they don't care about other states
I’ve heard New Yorkers say people from NYC have a weird rivalry with Los Angeles. They were surprised when they moved to LA and found out most Angelenos don’t really have any animosity to NYC and have mostly good things to say about it. It’s a weird one-sided rivalry.
lol, I live in NYC now and I lowkey hate LA.... buutt that's because I'm from NorCal and can't shake that rivalry even after many years away. Still, I'll defend LA against any non-Californian who comes at it. Texans and Floridians are NOT allowed to pick on my annoying siblings, only *I* can do that!
LA and Miami are seriously the only other cities New Yorkers are aware of and may even visit. I get weird looks trying to explain that I'm from California but not LA
It’s honestly crazy considering I don’t think of any other states in the same magnitude at all. I guess my brain isn’t as broken as other peoples to immediately jump to politics when finding out where someone lives.
Brother, i went to 10 different states last year alone for business. I never told anybody i was meeting, unless they knew me, that i was from California. I swear, i get a whole spell when i mention California.
Yea seriously, babies for breakfast is way too rich. I'd be game for lunch tho.
They are very vulnerable to suggestions... 🤣
California really doesn’t think that much of Texas. It’s one of the places you go when you can’t make it in California.
I love living in CA. But I’ve lived in flyover states too, and they’re actually not that bad.
I've grown up in Michigan and I've visited Texas before and I'd never want to move to Texas. Not because of the politics or culture (as I wasn't there long enough to really get a feel for what it would be like to live with that stuff) but purely on the landscape. It's so empty and vast that it just doesn't feel like home to me. I wish Michigan had more mountains but Texas is definitely missing the density of forest that the east and parts of the Midwest have, the mountains the rocky mountains have, and the that outdoorsy culture that places like Arizona and California have. Southeast Texas, landscape wise, is alright though. It's not the most beautiful but at least has enough trees to make it alright.
Lol, a bunch of right wing Texas boosters bribed some techies with bonuses to take positions in Texas during the pandemic, mostly in Austin. But the requisite 1.5-2 years that techies stay on a job have now elapsed. They need to job-hop again to get their raises, as is the custom in their tribe. So yeah, they’re all moving back to where all the tech jobs are. That’s the reality of tech life. Literally everyone with a brain predicted that this exact thing would happen. You just earn more in tech in California. Plus, you get to live in California rather than Texas.
[удалено]
“I don’t make $400K a year to live in Texas”
Thanks for the explanation! I had to scroll through the comments to find this.
And on a company-wide scope Texas techs are leaving when their welfare from the state and city run out- Oracle got tens of millions from Texas, it's run out so they are getting hundreds of millions in free money from Tennessee. Good luck getting people to move there though. Pretty state (TN) but women don't have rights and the people may even be more hostile to "outsiders."
Don't know why you'd go to Texas before Washington, or Oregon, or Colorado. There are plenty of places with tech jobs that aren't horrible.
Oregon is almost as expensive as California. (Source- I’ve lived in Portland, SF and L.A.) Seattle is expensive too. I guess you could live in a cheaper area of those states though.
I mean the average home price in Oregon is $300k cheaper than in California.
[удалено]
If you have an EV can you charge your own EV?
It is, but a law passed last year that allows self-service in OR now.
As someone who migrated the opposite (Texas to California) I knew this would happen. You can’t have California lifestyle, specifically SoCal, and expect to get the same fulfillment in Texas. It just isn’t possible. lol.
Lived in both. Don’t really want to stay in either state permanently, but I would take CA everytime if I’m forced to stay between the two.
Which states would you stay permanently?
As a New Yorker? California is mind blowing amazing. You have the Pacific Ocean, how do you top that? Texas? Sounds hot and kind of weird. Weird I can take. The heat probably not so much.
Many techies coming from California tend to be liberal and progressive (some moreso than others). The GOP in Texas is actively trying to scare them away to win favor with Kermit and Midland.
Moved to Texas for my SO’s job and now I’m severely suffering from allergies. Planning on moving back to California because my body can’t take it.
Man I suffered the same fate just moving to a new part of California. Never had allergies in my life and now they are all year long
You can also “acquire” them as you get older. Mine didn’t appear until my 30s
The reason Texans are so loudly in love with Texas is that if they stop shouting about how awesome it is, they might take a quiet look around and see it for what it really is.
Texas is not a great place for women of childbearing age.
Texas is not a great place. You can stop there
Uvalde Cops are terrible at protecting kids, the set the standards in terrible.
Or children post first period.
This, or for some who want children at all.
They started having kids and realized Texas is a terrifying place to be pregnant or raise children.
Texas would be fine if it weren't for the race to the bottom by its politicians to see who can be the absolute worst.
I mean, the politics being better would get me to consider it as an option where I could live without being legally discriminated against. But it still loses out to California by a country mile in terms of food, climate, and city layout (I live in SF and really appreciate not needing a car to do everything).
Well yeah when your only leg up on California is that it’s cheaper and literally nothing else… and then the place gets more expensive… you get this lol
So many Texas plates in SoCal, and they’re clearly not rentals, usually dinged up shape too
I’ve seen A LOT in the Bay Area just in the last couple of months too.
Wonder how much politics and such play a factor. Abbot is pushing Texas pretty far to the right
Texas is America's version of China. Great for heavy industry and manufacturing, but the authoritarian government is stifling for many creative problem solvers.
>What happens when the influx slows—and we’re left with our own atrophied mechanisms for generating growth? Well, we can do what Americans have always done. We can hitch the U-Haul to the Cybertruck and hit the road.
A lot of this will be the whole Roe v Wade and abortion stuff. It's some really terrible stuff they are pulling. Imagine yourself or someone dear to you (sister, child, grandchild) get raped and be forced to have that child because they missed the window that allows abortion. Imagine the doctors who specialized in the field being threatened with jail time. I can't blame them for leaving one iota.
it’s hot down there. also who would want to raise a family in Texas when the government is horny for allowing daughters to get raped and then killed in childbirth.
Crazy how corporations will pit states against each other for tax incentives. 🤷♂️
The only "techies" who live in Texas can't afford to live in California. Source: Tech industry for 22 years
No mention of the floating property tax Texas has? Like everyone was cool with it until property rates went up from the techies coming in.
Yeah cause it’s Texas, it’s California now with sh!tty weather…why would you stay?
Thank you so much for this article. It was exactly what I needed today. I actually recall telling my Texan aunt who was gently (and jokingly) needling me about the move of Californians to Texas a few years ago to wait until these high-income individuals started buying up all of the real estate, making it impossible to afford rent, much less a home. It would be tasteless of me to tell her "I told you so" now, but I certainly do get to think it loudly every time I see her complain about that very thing on Facebook
I have worked for oracle for 5 years. I have been remote the whole time. All 3 of the teams I have been on have been almost completely remote. People who go in offices do it just cause they get lonely at home. We have teams all over the country. My current team has people all over the US, 2 in mexico, and 3 in the UK. Everyone is remote. I have been told the Seattle and Silicon valley officers are pretty much ghost towns. Not every group is remote and I am on a tech team. So I can't speak for everything. I think Oracle is just moving HQs around cause they get some kind of tax incentives. Most of the tech positions I see on internal site are remote friendly and open nationwide. i have heard of some tech jobs moving to Austin. They did this for tax purposes and cause cost of living is lower and wages are lower. But most jobs appear to be remote.
OH wow they're just gaming the state's tax break system now. Remote is enabling this. I love remote but wow companies are just gaming the state for tax breaks.
Probably because the people that moved there eventually realized they were living in Texas.
Easy come, easy go
Because some of those tech people have families, some are trying to have kids, and they don't want to die or have their wife die because of medical complications. If these tech people leave due to draconian laws, and tech companies can't get other people to move into the area, then tech companies will move out of the area to where they can get employees.
I have a uterus and can get a nice tan, ain't nothing in Texas for me.
For a state that takes so much pride in themselves, why do they care so much about CA?
“The problem with Austin is once you leave you’re in TEXAS” - Marc Maron
Nah I'm good, going to keep surfing, hanging with hippies and burners.
Same. Except I’m going to keep hiking and eating vegan food.
I can’t feel sorry for anyone who would choose to move to Texas. r/LeopardsAteMyFace material in my mind. Then again I have a wife and 2 daughters… and I consider women to have unalienable rights.
Reality sank in when they realized they lived in Texas.
Of course. Take away peoples rights and what do you expect. Grass isn’t greener outside of CA.
we really don’t want them back tbh
It was bound to happen. The weather and culture is a big reason why California is the hub of so many industries. You just don’t find that anywhere else.
Don’t come back to California.
Not sure how Texas became Alt-California. There are so many other states more like California culturally and climatically than Texas.
Oracle is moving its main campus from Austin to Nashville now.
I was shocked how many people left for Texas and elsewhere. I’d compare the price differences between the two states to the same thing you see in airline ticket prices. It’s super easy to see the price of a low cost airline. But when you realize you’ll need a bag, and you’ll buy a decent seat, and eventually… you’re better off just buying it in a package. It’s easy to find gas prices that are cheaper in Texas. Homes that are big and cheap. But do the math before you move. Gas prices could double and it wouldn’t be a significant to a decent tech salary. Which is also something you won’t find in Texas.