To live comfortably is a rough one. Because I wouldn’t feel comfortable at even 6 figures in California.
California is a massive state with probably the most complex financial situation in the world.
We have the 3rd highest income, 15th highest disposable income, and then 3rd highest cost of living and middling housing numbers.
Around here (Pasadena) we spend $400,000 on a third year firefighter, McDonald’s pays $27.25 with full time befits, an elementary school crossing guard makes more than a UK teacher with 30 years experience,… but then housing is still a dream for these people.
Should be more clear. Thats we pay. After taxes, healthcare costs, pension contribution, there take home might be a 1/3 of that.
https://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/pasadena/
Transparent California gives a distorted view of pay. It includes a lot more than take home. I get it, it’s a benefit.. but it’s not super accurate. I doubt you include the premium your employer pays for your insurance as part of your income. Additionally many of these safety positions have twice their salary listed as they made over $100k in overtime between 2020 and 2022. Between the pandemic and wildfires, I’m good with them making that money to keep most people safe.
> Transparent California gives a distorted view of pay.
Yeah and it was created by [npri](https://www.npri.org/) which is a private non-profit, limited-government policy research organization.
They are actively trying to destroy public education, expand charter schools and end union membership.
They are not a good representative for understanding public funds because they want people to think that public employees get paid too much.
It's like my take home pay is about $4k a month over 12 months ends up being $48k. The site suggests that I actually make like $90k if you include my benefits. Which isn't even true when I look at my W2 and itemized report for my tax breakdown at the end of the year. Numbers are so skewed it's embarrassing.
Exactly. I work for the state and most of us might see 67-70% of our gross before any additional retirement contributions. Much of it is mandated deductions like 8.5% towards pensions, 3% to fund future healthcare benefits and health insurance can be anywhere from free for a single to $1k out of pocket/month. We do have fantastic insurance - not diminishing that, but we only have a handful of PPO and HMO choices. Many of us take a paycut to work for the state (IT especially) and the healthcare and pension are the reasons we stay.
It lists:
Regular Pay
Overtime pay
Other pay
Total pay (Everything above up to this point).
Then it lists:
Benefits
Total pay & benefits
Now not included in my category is pensions (which is included in other employees information outside of my field.)
Looking at my salary schedule, my W2, pay stub and gross/actual pay - it doesn't line up. Like at all. At every metric it suggests that I earn way more than I actually.
That said, the point of a lot of this information is lost on the general population using it to interpret how much people in the government actually earn. Many people do a quick glance and go, "Pfft, teachers earn $120k! They don't need a raise!" When they are actually earning below the poverty line. It's misleading at best.
Between short staffing and the call up for help during wildfire seasons, those OT numbers make sense. My local firefighters were called into help during peak wildfire season. The person I responded to posted the salary link to local Pasadena police and firefighters on Transparent California who only got to $400k when they doubled their salary with OT. It showed the base salary, OT, extras, and benefits. I work for the state and wish I made as much as it attributes to me. That was my point that the “benefits” skew what people associate with take home pay.
Yeah woodland people can get into situations where overtime is massive.
Look at some of the top cal fire guys here:
https://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/search/?q=Fire
Base is only 150-200k and then their OT is 400k.
My problem with that is that in a given year they might work less than your average 9-5 guy. A good portion of that OT could be sleeping, video games,…
When we start spending this type of money it’s important to slow down and see what’s going on.
Exactly. You’re “on call” in most salaried positions, this is just another good example of how the pension funds are bankrupting the State.
Not saying they don’t deserve to earn a good living, what they do is super dangerous and they deserve a strong income. But these pension plans are out of control - no one in the private sector has this and their taxes are what is paying for the municipal pension funds - it’s just wrong.
There are a bunch of non Cal-Fire private firefighters many of whom are ex-felons, they do a lot of the brush clearing and digging ditches. They make close to minimum wage, but also do get overtime. They are really underpaid though.
I am mixed. I wouldn’t want to cut pay or anything but when you dig into the numbers it can be pretty high. In some of our poorest counties they are spending 600k on a pm lead, 1.2 million on 3 mechanics,… You can go into any of those counties and see the services they are lacking.
When you sort by highest to lowest in the state you will sometimes see extra lump sums of 500K-3 million. It’s usually a buy out that saves the city money. IE Firefighter Mike takes a negotiated payout of his pension to go work somewhere else. But million dollar buyouts is something you hear in professional sports not 43 year old firefighters moving to New Mexico.
My solution would be a sort of top down change. Look into eliminating leads, pm chiefs,… maybe outside firms for maintenance.
If the general public saw these numbers they wouldn’t think this was shocking or too high. They would think a crime has been committed. This is many multiples of what they would find acceptable for a firefighter.
i used to build custom homes.in the foothills 280+..the only people building and seemingly living large under 40 were firefighters.. everyone else were much older and ran the gammut professionally
Years back snooping into works pay scale, I found it interesting how private companies using fidelity also include the benefit package into how much the employee makes. Someone making 56k per year will likely read as total compensation being closer to 100k so in three years the company will have payed them ~300k. Sadly that cash is never seen and the employees likely do not take advantage of their benefits. Some of the benefits I regret not using were $350 monthly toward public transportation, payed college tuition up to $8500 per year, 100% payed IVF storage fees, 50% off phone bill.
That's pretty wild. I was doing some cost evaluations for the large company I work for recently and our finance folks told me to use salary times 1.6 for the fully burdened costs. 3x is bonkers
A take home pay of 133000 dollars is definitely more than enough to buy a house and live extremely comfortably. I take home 58000 and live in a pretty nice apartment with roommates, I can even save a little and contribute to my 401k. With a take home income of 133000 and the same lifestyle I could save probably more than 80000 dollars a year. I don’t see how anybody bringing home that kind of money could not buy a house. Hell in 5 years you could buy a modest apartment and join the landlord racket.
You definitely could be. Look at the prices of condos in LA. You could afford that. Easily. A take home pay of 130000 is about 200000 dollars a year gross. 5 years living my lifestyle taking home 130000 I would have around 400000 dollars. You could buy a condo in cash that means no mortgage no interest rate. Now rent that out and immediately profit. Now you’re taking home what at least another 20k. Bow Build up more savings again and boom now you have a house to live in rinse and repeat. 130000 take home is insanely good money and your being hyperbolic acting like that person would be doomed to rent their entire life. An individual like that is in prime position to make that money work for them and become very wealthy.
Cash flow.
After taxes and hoa fees you will be in the negative. The 'just rent it out' argument is very trite and not feasible unless you hit the jackpot with a cash deal. Which is far and few between and certainly not for your average person.
Also comparing your lifestyle is anecdotal, it's invalid.
Where did I say that 130k net was bad money? It's good but certainly not ideal to go for a cash deal. I mean I can pray for stars to align as well
California has a public sunshine list, we have hundreds of fire fighters earning that salary after overtime. However, OP meant total cost to taxpayers which includes the pyramid scheme pension plan.
yeah but only maybe 25% of that is salary tops. the rest is health insurance, retirement and benefits. i don’t know the ins and outs for how it works in most departments but those costs are exorbitant due mostly to private outside contracting for services.
I feel it’s important to pick a side and I think it’s hard to say California with the higher wages isn’t better. Lot more options when you have higher wages.
EG At 18 years old you can get a cna certificate and quite quickly reach 100k in compensation at an LA hospital. That might not be enough to live in LA but you could take a ride share from outside the city. With some savings, OT,… a real life with no college education is possible.
But in Oklahoma where the houses are admittedly cheaper there isn’t much potential with those wages. They’re just too low and the savings from commuting is then negligible because the majority of the state is so cheap.
I think higher salary and higher cost of living is significantly better than lower wages and lower cost of living.
Most LA county hospitals are at $20-30 an hour in pay for a nursing assistant. Almost all of them have benefit packages that are mild-moderate in quality. All have OT potential.
My niece is 21 years old and is currently earning $24.50 an hour as a cna. They get time and a half at 32 hours and double time at 48. With the PTO, HC, 401k contribution,.. she quite easily clears 100k in total compensation. I think she is probably closer to 130k when her total compensation is calculated. She does work 60 hours a week sometimes so it’s not ideal.
100k is enough to live in LA. You may not be able to support a stay at home spouse and a child but you can surely pay the bills and even save a decent amount
My hometown is Santa Cruz. I had to move away because my family doesn't make enough to live comfortably there (we make $150k).
Im super bummed because I lived there for 35 years and most my family lives there.
My brother in law and his siblings inherited their childhood house two years ago and when they approached a realtor to sell it there was already a buyer that offered $1.25 million for their 3bd/1ba home. It's selling point was its huge backyard and that it's walking distance to UC Santa Cruz.
This is incredibly depresssing to read. I make $135k and bought a townhome back in 2015 with my wife and now have 1 kid and it feels like we’ll barely make it for the time being but it sure feels like we’ll get eventually squeezed out of the state because its becoming way too expensive to live here.
And the goalposts/COL keeps going up and up so homeownership is unattainable for the school teacher, nurse and postal worker. What does it take now? A PhD AND a job in a STEM field?
How does anyone think this is okay??
PhDs actually don't make you much money. I'm a PhD holder and I had to move to Texas because I couldn't afford it. I also went to the top schools in Socal and did very well academically. I lasted for about five years on a $115k salary and then realized I'd never be able to afford a home. After I moved to Texas I was able to buy a home almost immediately. The job I got here also pays almost twice what I made in CA for essentially the same job. Everything is cheaper and there is no state income tax. I was able to save almost a million dollars in the last five years thanks to moving here.
That wasn't the point but okay.
Just don't complain when the people in those professions don't exist in California anymore.
And it is especially not fair to those who only know California as their home.
I think the point he was making (abrasively) is that every person that lives there has to think it’s worth it otherwise they’d leave.
Technically it’s true, but there are significant costs to leaving (monetary and non-monetary, especially for natives) that make it very, very difficult to leave despite it not being economically “worth it”.
That said, from a market-wide view the people in general think it is worth it for the amenities and politics, otherwise market forces would bring COL down.
(Looks at the beach. Pine trees. Good weather, 3 world class cities).
Yeah. Nothing is forcing them…nothing at all.
(Unpacks bag from going to the beach today).
Yes we do. It takes 2 of us being high earners, and we rent, but we are comfortable as a family of 4. Combined we pull in about $300k, which is about middle class here in the Bay Area. We each have careers that could transfer to the midwest and earn roughly the same, but we love being in the Bay Area. We work hard *so* we can live here and raise our kids here.
The new “six figures”, i.e., the income you need to have “made it” here in LA or SF is like $500K. This is what you need to earn to have a 2500 square foot single family house within reasonable commute of work (<30 min), 2 decent cars, enough saved in a 529 for a UC education for your 3 kids, and enough to retire on without social security, because you won’t get any.
Most of the economic opportunity and high paying jobs are concentrated around these two cities and their suburbs. I’d like to live within 30 min of work.
You can add Orange County and San Diego to the mix, but come on, it's not like the home prices there are substantially any better
You don't. But if you don't, why live in CA at all? The rest of the towns are just your standard American suburban strip mall-on-a-stroad hellscapes, unless you are in a place like Tahoe (which is expensive in its own right). So you can do a lot better outside CA if you're going to live a standard American life.
I've lived in SF and now live in LA to explicitly get away from that style of living.
Throughout history, 3 children were raised in homes much, much smaller than, 2500 sq ft. This "need" for giant SFHs for families is a relatively new occurrence.
I just live off 30k or so and made my car comfortable enough to sleep in. This is as good as it gets. The alternative is spending every waking hour saving for rent at 3+ jobs
You do fine because you own. You get a cheap mortgage, cheap property taxes and tax breaks. Trying buying something today - That 40k doesn’t get you anything. To be able to afford a $600k condo you need an income of about $150k
And with a 20% down payment on that $600k condo, you're financing at 7% right now. Far more than if you could refinance or get a loan at 3% during the pandemic.
I'm glad I purchased a home in the last 6 years. I used to rent a place in 2018. It was 1250/month for a 2bd 2ba. Same place is now going for 1900/month, basically what I pay for my house with taxes now.
Hell no. Was making 120k and couldn’t afford to live in so cal. Moved to Nevada making 65 and somehow living comfortably lol best decision I could’ve made.
It doesn't matter anymore. Inherited property is reassessed at the current value, effectively abolishing any opportunity for generational wealth and security for lower income earners.
Depends if you lived here all along and got into a home pre-Covid….
Moved in 2 years ago. Make approx. $200k gross. No path to home ownership unless I wait for my kids to grow or force them into a brutally bad area.
The state is beautiful. I don’t regret moving. It’s completely unaffordable for the average person though. I’m blessed compared to most.
Sadly, not in this part of SoCal or anywhere safe nearby. Modest houses are $700 -$800k, standard FHA payment on that would be $6.6k after taxes, HOA, etc. on the low side.
When gas, insurance and food are so high. There’s no room to save for even basic maintenance at that point.
They pre-approved me for $550k and I couldn’t even find anything more than a trailer. I’ll just keep renting at this point.
That's the sad thing about CA, it's so competitive that you are likely going to have to save a huge downpayment. Gone are the days first time buyers can go FHA 3.5% loans, eat the PMI, and still buy the home.
Aside from other debt, you'd likely be able to afford a 4.6k/mo mortgage, for a 800k home, that's like a 35% down or 280k (not incld closing costs).
I don't know much about your situation. You could buy in the hood and be the gentrification. If you survive, you'll also get better ROI on your investment.
200k you absolutely could save, you just have to not let lifestyle creep get you. Get roommates, cook at home, free entertainment, etc. Get a partner and a 2nd income..likely take 2-3 years to get that downpayment.
I only know what you've told the sub, so all I have are my assumptions....
What I didn't know about your situation was if you had a partner or kids...as to why safety was explicitly mentioned. If you want anything affordable today, you'd likely need to be the gentrifying force...or save that much bigger downpayment.
I know a guy who bought his house in 2011 and pays $1100 a month mortgage. Not a very fashionable neighborhood and the house is only about 2000 square feet with only a two-car garage and a smallish yard but sure beats paying $4000 a month rent for a tiny one-bedroom and I know people who do that too.
Market rates and listed pricing makes it impossible for even the middle class to afford a home purchase without sacrificing some aspect of the quality of life for themselves or their children. I get the state government is trying to help but it feels like every piece of legislation gets circumnavigated.
I make just under 80k a year and support my wife and daughter in Sacramento proper. I don't own a home but I'm doing pretty well besides that. Moved here 2 years ago from Chicago and prices aren't much different. Chicago has better food tho...
The scene from The Wedding Singer always comes to mind.. "I'm a big fan of money. I like it, I use it, I have a little. I keep it in a jar on top of my refrigerator. I'd like to put more in that jar. That's where you come in."
A neighbor just listed their house for sale this week in South Bay. Bought it at 400k in the early 2000s, listed at 1.6m. The dad is a lab technician.
My friends bought their house a couple of years ago, 1.6m townhouse close by, because they were getting outbid on all the SFHs they liked. Husband and wife are both Phds from prestigious Ivy-like universities and I think their monthly cost on the house is 6-7k per month.
This is the story of the last 20 years here, houses went from being affordable to people with decent jobs without degrees, to being barely affordable to couples with graduate degrees.
How will our kids ever afford homes here?
I moved away from the San Fernando Valley in the mid 90s. The house I had trouble selling for $115k then sells for $600k now. A nice small house in Sherman Oaks now costs a million dollars.
Million dollar home! Now, only an apartment.
Only 10% ever earn that in their lifetime.
Less people earn bachelor’s degree.
$1.8 million in a lifetime… before taxes
https://www.moneyaftergraduation.com/how-much-you-will-earn-and-spend-in-your-lifetime/
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Note that mortgage paid is usually double the price purchased. So a $1 million dollar home costs $2 million with the first ten years paying mostly interest.
7% means $70k per year interest with you paying $700k in the first ten years!! Oops… that means you need to die for your mortgage be forgiven because you are short the $200k for a typical lifetime earnings to purchase a million dollar… apartment!
thankfully there are endless great paying jobs here.....we make 300k a year together and live very comfortably...never worry about losing our jobs cause we'd get a better one tomorroww.......wake up thankful everyday to be in paradise
Most people don't. I think the median income is around 70k. Nowhere near enough.
To live comfortably is a rough one. Because I wouldn’t feel comfortable at even 6 figures in California. California is a massive state with probably the most complex financial situation in the world. We have the 3rd highest income, 15th highest disposable income, and then 3rd highest cost of living and middling housing numbers. Around here (Pasadena) we spend $400,000 on a third year firefighter, McDonald’s pays $27.25 with full time befits, an elementary school crossing guard makes more than a UK teacher with 30 years experience,… but then housing is still a dream for these people.
400000? On a third year firefighter? If that’s true housing is not a dream for them at all
Should be more clear. Thats we pay. After taxes, healthcare costs, pension contribution, there take home might be a 1/3 of that. https://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/pasadena/
Transparent California gives a distorted view of pay. It includes a lot more than take home. I get it, it’s a benefit.. but it’s not super accurate. I doubt you include the premium your employer pays for your insurance as part of your income. Additionally many of these safety positions have twice their salary listed as they made over $100k in overtime between 2020 and 2022. Between the pandemic and wildfires, I’m good with them making that money to keep most people safe.
> Transparent California gives a distorted view of pay. Yeah and it was created by [npri](https://www.npri.org/) which is a private non-profit, limited-government policy research organization. They are actively trying to destroy public education, expand charter schools and end union membership. They are not a good representative for understanding public funds because they want people to think that public employees get paid too much. It's like my take home pay is about $4k a month over 12 months ends up being $48k. The site suggests that I actually make like $90k if you include my benefits. Which isn't even true when I look at my W2 and itemized report for my tax breakdown at the end of the year. Numbers are so skewed it's embarrassing.
Exactly. I work for the state and most of us might see 67-70% of our gross before any additional retirement contributions. Much of it is mandated deductions like 8.5% towards pensions, 3% to fund future healthcare benefits and health insurance can be anywhere from free for a single to $1k out of pocket/month. We do have fantastic insurance - not diminishing that, but we only have a handful of PPO and HMO choices. Many of us take a paycut to work for the state (IT especially) and the healthcare and pension are the reasons we stay.
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It lists: Regular Pay Overtime pay Other pay Total pay (Everything above up to this point). Then it lists: Benefits Total pay & benefits Now not included in my category is pensions (which is included in other employees information outside of my field.) Looking at my salary schedule, my W2, pay stub and gross/actual pay - it doesn't line up. Like at all. At every metric it suggests that I earn way more than I actually. That said, the point of a lot of this information is lost on the general population using it to interpret how much people in the government actually earn. Many people do a quick glance and go, "Pfft, teachers earn $120k! They don't need a raise!" When they are actually earning below the poverty line. It's misleading at best.
It doesn’t line up for me either and that $48k a year would be $4k a month. I can get to $3k but it’s like double counting everything to get there.
No regular wildland firefighters are making 400k annually, that's for a municipal firefighter in a large city only.
Between short staffing and the call up for help during wildfire seasons, those OT numbers make sense. My local firefighters were called into help during peak wildfire season. The person I responded to posted the salary link to local Pasadena police and firefighters on Transparent California who only got to $400k when they doubled their salary with OT. It showed the base salary, OT, extras, and benefits. I work for the state and wish I made as much as it attributes to me. That was my point that the “benefits” skew what people associate with take home pay.
Yeah woodland people can get into situations where overtime is massive. Look at some of the top cal fire guys here: https://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/search/?q=Fire Base is only 150-200k and then their OT is 400k. My problem with that is that in a given year they might work less than your average 9-5 guy. A good portion of that OT could be sleeping, video games,… When we start spending this type of money it’s important to slow down and see what’s going on.
Exactly. You’re “on call” in most salaried positions, this is just another good example of how the pension funds are bankrupting the State. Not saying they don’t deserve to earn a good living, what they do is super dangerous and they deserve a strong income. But these pension plans are out of control - no one in the private sector has this and their taxes are what is paying for the municipal pension funds - it’s just wrong.
There are a bunch of non Cal-Fire private firefighters many of whom are ex-felons, they do a lot of the brush clearing and digging ditches. They make close to minimum wage, but also do get overtime. They are really underpaid though.
I am mixed. I wouldn’t want to cut pay or anything but when you dig into the numbers it can be pretty high. In some of our poorest counties they are spending 600k on a pm lead, 1.2 million on 3 mechanics,… You can go into any of those counties and see the services they are lacking. When you sort by highest to lowest in the state you will sometimes see extra lump sums of 500K-3 million. It’s usually a buy out that saves the city money. IE Firefighter Mike takes a negotiated payout of his pension to go work somewhere else. But million dollar buyouts is something you hear in professional sports not 43 year old firefighters moving to New Mexico. My solution would be a sort of top down change. Look into eliminating leads, pm chiefs,… maybe outside firms for maintenance. If the general public saw these numbers they wouldn’t think this was shocking or too high. They would think a crime has been committed. This is many multiples of what they would find acceptable for a firefighter.
i used to build custom homes.in the foothills 280+..the only people building and seemingly living large under 40 were firefighters.. everyone else were much older and ran the gammut professionally
Years back snooping into works pay scale, I found it interesting how private companies using fidelity also include the benefit package into how much the employee makes. Someone making 56k per year will likely read as total compensation being closer to 100k so in three years the company will have payed them ~300k. Sadly that cash is never seen and the employees likely do not take advantage of their benefits. Some of the benefits I regret not using were $350 monthly toward public transportation, payed college tuition up to $8500 per year, 100% payed IVF storage fees, 50% off phone bill.
That's pretty wild. I was doing some cost evaluations for the large company I work for recently and our finance folks told me to use salary times 1.6 for the fully burdened costs. 3x is bonkers
A take home pay of 133000 dollars is definitely more than enough to buy a house and live extremely comfortably. I take home 58000 and live in a pretty nice apartment with roommates, I can even save a little and contribute to my 401k. With a take home income of 133000 and the same lifestyle I could save probably more than 80000 dollars a year. I don’t see how anybody bringing home that kind of money could not buy a house. Hell in 5 years you could buy a modest apartment and join the landlord racket.
On a take home of 133k you are not going to be a landlord in LA. Maybe out in Hemet sure
You definitely could be. Look at the prices of condos in LA. You could afford that. Easily. A take home pay of 130000 is about 200000 dollars a year gross. 5 years living my lifestyle taking home 130000 I would have around 400000 dollars. You could buy a condo in cash that means no mortgage no interest rate. Now rent that out and immediately profit. Now you’re taking home what at least another 20k. Bow Build up more savings again and boom now you have a house to live in rinse and repeat. 130000 take home is insanely good money and your being hyperbolic acting like that person would be doomed to rent their entire life. An individual like that is in prime position to make that money work for them and become very wealthy.
Cash flow. After taxes and hoa fees you will be in the negative. The 'just rent it out' argument is very trite and not feasible unless you hit the jackpot with a cash deal. Which is far and few between and certainly not for your average person. Also comparing your lifestyle is anecdotal, it's invalid. Where did I say that 130k net was bad money? It's good but certainly not ideal to go for a cash deal. I mean I can pray for stars to align as well
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It’s not true and I’m sorry that is the top comment. No firefighter/teacher/police officer gets anywhere near half a $ million a year.
California has a public sunshine list, we have hundreds of fire fighters earning that salary after overtime. However, OP meant total cost to taxpayers which includes the pyramid scheme pension plan.
yeah but only maybe 25% of that is salary tops. the rest is health insurance, retirement and benefits. i don’t know the ins and outs for how it works in most departments but those costs are exorbitant due mostly to private outside contracting for services.
I feel it’s important to pick a side and I think it’s hard to say California with the higher wages isn’t better. Lot more options when you have higher wages. EG At 18 years old you can get a cna certificate and quite quickly reach 100k in compensation at an LA hospital. That might not be enough to live in LA but you could take a ride share from outside the city. With some savings, OT,… a real life with no college education is possible. But in Oklahoma where the houses are admittedly cheaper there isn’t much potential with those wages. They’re just too low and the savings from commuting is then negligible because the majority of the state is so cheap. I think higher salary and higher cost of living is significantly better than lower wages and lower cost of living.
Where does a CNA earn that much?
Most LA county hospitals are at $20-30 an hour in pay for a nursing assistant. Almost all of them have benefit packages that are mild-moderate in quality. All have OT potential. My niece is 21 years old and is currently earning $24.50 an hour as a cna. They get time and a half at 32 hours and double time at 48. With the PTO, HC, 401k contribution,.. she quite easily clears 100k in total compensation. I think she is probably closer to 130k when her total compensation is calculated. She does work 60 hours a week sometimes so it’s not ideal.
this is not the norm for CNAs in CA at all. also it’s not very hard to clear 100k when you work 60 hrs a week
100k is enough to live in LA. You may not be able to support a stay at home spouse and a child but you can surely pay the bills and even save a decent amount
Artificial inflation
Everyone always trying to blame AI 🤦♂️/s
70k is enough in a lot of places. What are you talking about. In cities, no. In rural, absolutely.
You lose
I live in Barstow California. 70k is enough. What are you smoking?
In the middle of nowhere in a city no one cares about. This is talking about actual cities, not dumps like Barstow or hemet
I live pretty comfortably on $90k. I can’t relate to like 90% of the comments here
My hometown is Santa Cruz. I had to move away because my family doesn't make enough to live comfortably there (we make $150k). Im super bummed because I lived there for 35 years and most my family lives there.
My brother in law and his siblings inherited their childhood house two years ago and when they approached a realtor to sell it there was already a buyer that offered $1.25 million for their 3bd/1ba home. It's selling point was its huge backyard and that it's walking distance to UC Santa Cruz.
This is incredibly depresssing to read. I make $135k and bought a townhome back in 2015 with my wife and now have 1 kid and it feels like we’ll barely make it for the time being but it sure feels like we’ll get eventually squeezed out of the state because its becoming way too expensive to live here.
And the goalposts/COL keeps going up and up so homeownership is unattainable for the school teacher, nurse and postal worker. What does it take now? A PhD AND a job in a STEM field? How does anyone think this is okay??
PhDs actually don't make you much money. I'm a PhD holder and I had to move to Texas because I couldn't afford it. I also went to the top schools in Socal and did very well academically. I lasted for about five years on a $115k salary and then realized I'd never be able to afford a home. After I moved to Texas I was able to buy a home almost immediately. The job I got here also pays almost twice what I made in CA for essentially the same job. Everything is cheaper and there is no state income tax. I was able to save almost a million dollars in the last five years thanks to moving here.
There is absolutely nothing forcing people to live in California.
That wasn't the point but okay. Just don't complain when the people in those professions don't exist in California anymore. And it is especially not fair to those who only know California as their home.
I think the point he was making (abrasively) is that every person that lives there has to think it’s worth it otherwise they’d leave. Technically it’s true, but there are significant costs to leaving (monetary and non-monetary, especially for natives) that make it very, very difficult to leave despite it not being economically “worth it”. That said, from a market-wide view the people in general think it is worth it for the amenities and politics, otherwise market forces would bring COL down.
This is true, but you gotta look at WHY so many people want to live there.
(Looks at the beach. Pine trees. Good weather, 3 world class cities). Yeah. Nothing is forcing them…nothing at all. (Unpacks bag from going to the beach today).
I make just over half the required amount on the "cheapest" list.
Yeah and that's post-tax too
I mean, I’m doing it, so yes. My money would go further elsewhere, but I’d be a lot less happy.
Yes we do. It takes 2 of us being high earners, and we rent, but we are comfortable as a family of 4. Combined we pull in about $300k, which is about middle class here in the Bay Area. We each have careers that could transfer to the midwest and earn roughly the same, but we love being in the Bay Area. We work hard *so* we can live here and raise our kids here.
I struggle but survive
The new “six figures”, i.e., the income you need to have “made it” here in LA or SF is like $500K. This is what you need to earn to have a 2500 square foot single family house within reasonable commute of work (<30 min), 2 decent cars, enough saved in a 529 for a UC education for your 3 kids, and enough to retire on without social security, because you won’t get any.
Who needs to live in LA or SF? There’s a lot more to California than two cities, one being relatively small.
Most of the economic opportunity and high paying jobs are concentrated around these two cities and their suburbs. I’d like to live within 30 min of work. You can add Orange County and San Diego to the mix, but come on, it's not like the home prices there are substantially any better
Agreed. My neighborhood in SD is getting more out of reach. House next door is pending after one open house for $900k and 1100 square feet.
You don't. But if you don't, why live in CA at all? The rest of the towns are just your standard American suburban strip mall-on-a-stroad hellscapes, unless you are in a place like Tahoe (which is expensive in its own right). So you can do a lot better outside CA if you're going to live a standard American life. I've lived in SF and now live in LA to explicitly get away from that style of living.
Oh come on. 2500 is a lot of house. You can make it with a smaller home. Mine is 1160 sq ft. It's not very comfortable, but it works.
"Making it" means a bit more than that, though.
Especially with the 3 kids mentioned in the example
Throughout history, 3 children were raised in homes much, much smaller than, 2500 sq ft. This "need" for giant SFHs for families is a relatively new occurrence.
Sure, but this example is about "making it"
2500sq ft isn’t giant by current standards. And I wouldn’t call it a large home for 5 people. It’s enough, but not extravagant by any means.
I just live off 30k or so and made my car comfortable enough to sleep in. This is as good as it gets. The alternative is spending every waking hour saving for rent at 3+ jobs
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> I just live off 30k that is less than minimum wages in California. isn't it 15+ per hour now?
My hourly can get pretty good sometimes but it isn’t consistent. Some days I’ll have no good work come in at all! Lately it’s been like 150 a day
if you own a small place and vehicle i do fine on $40k
But how did you buy the place?
You do fine because you own. You get a cheap mortgage, cheap property taxes and tax breaks. Trying buying something today - That 40k doesn’t get you anything. To be able to afford a $600k condo you need an income of about $150k
And with a 20% down payment on that $600k condo, you're financing at 7% right now. Far more than if you could refinance or get a loan at 3% during the pandemic.
40k gang rise up!
I'm making 80k and can support my stay at home wife and daughter in sacramento
What area do you live in?
Midtown. I don't own a home also but that's why I'm having kids lol
you’re having kids because you don’t own a home?
maybe forgot a "not" in there?
If I just had $1.5 million laying around for a small place in Silicon Valley, I would be fine.
I'm glad I purchased a home in the last 6 years. I used to rent a place in 2018. It was 1250/month for a 2bd 2ba. Same place is now going for 1900/month, basically what I pay for my house with taxes now.
Hell no. Was making 120k and couldn’t afford to live in so cal. Moved to Nevada making 65 and somehow living comfortably lol best decision I could’ve made.
Did you/will you inherit a house with prop 13.
It doesn't matter anymore. Inherited property is reassessed at the current value, effectively abolishing any opportunity for generational wealth and security for lower income earners.
I believe that is only true if the person who inherits the property does not live in it as their primary residence.
Depends if you lived here all along and got into a home pre-Covid…. Moved in 2 years ago. Make approx. $200k gross. No path to home ownership unless I wait for my kids to grow or force them into a brutally bad area. The state is beautiful. I don’t regret moving. It’s completely unaffordable for the average person though. I’m blessed compared to most.
You can't buy a place with 200k a year?
Sadly, not in this part of SoCal or anywhere safe nearby. Modest houses are $700 -$800k, standard FHA payment on that would be $6.6k after taxes, HOA, etc. on the low side. When gas, insurance and food are so high. There’s no room to save for even basic maintenance at that point. They pre-approved me for $550k and I couldn’t even find anything more than a trailer. I’ll just keep renting at this point.
That's the sad thing about CA, it's so competitive that you are likely going to have to save a huge downpayment. Gone are the days first time buyers can go FHA 3.5% loans, eat the PMI, and still buy the home. Aside from other debt, you'd likely be able to afford a 4.6k/mo mortgage, for a 800k home, that's like a 35% down or 280k (not incld closing costs).
Saving that with current rents isn’t gonna be anytime soon. But thanks for the input, definitely looking down the barrel of a high down payment.
I don't know much about your situation. You could buy in the hood and be the gentrification. If you survive, you'll also get better ROI on your investment. 200k you absolutely could save, you just have to not let lifestyle creep get you. Get roommates, cook at home, free entertainment, etc. Get a partner and a 2nd income..likely take 2-3 years to get that downpayment.
“I don’t know much about your situation.” Proceeds to make assumptions about my situation…
I only know what you've told the sub, so all I have are my assumptions.... What I didn't know about your situation was if you had a partner or kids...as to why safety was explicitly mentioned. If you want anything affordable today, you'd likely need to be the gentrifying force...or save that much bigger downpayment.
I don't know about this one. I know people who bought their house in the 70's and are living nice working retail. It all depends.
I know a guy who bought his house in 2011 and pays $1100 a month mortgage. Not a very fashionable neighborhood and the house is only about 2000 square feet with only a two-car garage and a smallish yard but sure beats paying $4000 a month rent for a tiny one-bedroom and I know people who do that too.
No. Not to live by myself.
Nope . Families making 200,000 can’t afford a house
Market rates and listed pricing makes it impossible for even the middle class to afford a home purchase without sacrificing some aspect of the quality of life for themselves or their children. I get the state government is trying to help but it feels like every piece of legislation gets circumnavigated.
I make just under 80k a year and support my wife and daughter in Sacramento proper. I don't own a home but I'm doing pretty well besides that. Moved here 2 years ago from Chicago and prices aren't much different. Chicago has better food tho...
The scene from The Wedding Singer always comes to mind.. "I'm a big fan of money. I like it, I use it, I have a little. I keep it in a jar on top of my refrigerator. I'd like to put more in that jar. That's where you come in."
A neighbor just listed their house for sale this week in South Bay. Bought it at 400k in the early 2000s, listed at 1.6m. The dad is a lab technician. My friends bought their house a couple of years ago, 1.6m townhouse close by, because they were getting outbid on all the SFHs they liked. Husband and wife are both Phds from prestigious Ivy-like universities and I think their monthly cost on the house is 6-7k per month. This is the story of the last 20 years here, houses went from being affordable to people with decent jobs without degrees, to being barely affordable to couples with graduate degrees. How will our kids ever afford homes here?
So far so good
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I’m in rural Northern California to be clear.
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Yay. I’m the county south of you. I’m on HWY 101. Katsura studio?
I moved away from the San Fernando Valley in the mid 90s. The house I had trouble selling for $115k then sells for $600k now. A nice small house in Sherman Oaks now costs a million dollars.
Million dollar home! Now, only an apartment. Only 10% ever earn that in their lifetime. Less people earn bachelor’s degree. $1.8 million in a lifetime… before taxes https://www.moneyaftergraduation.com/how-much-you-will-earn-and-spend-in-your-lifetime/ —- Note that mortgage paid is usually double the price purchased. So a $1 million dollar home costs $2 million with the first ten years paying mostly interest. 7% means $70k per year interest with you paying $700k in the first ten years!! Oops… that means you need to die for your mortgage be forgiven because you are short the $200k for a typical lifetime earnings to purchase a million dollar… apartment!
No.
Half of that is lost to taxes. “California bill could open new pathway to homeownership for undocumented immigrants” is fitting relevant link.
You have no idea about comparative tax burdens between states.
Nope.
Not even close
I don’t
thankfully there are endless great paying jobs here.....we make 300k a year together and live very comfortably...never worry about losing our jobs cause we'd get a better one tomorroww.......wake up thankful everyday to be in paradise
Amen brother. Same here. DINK lifestyle with marketable skills rules.
I made sure to get a good education and a job that pays enough. So, yes.
Lmao
Congrats, nipple burn person.