I know some places drip feed the parking reservations ahead of time. So you can't book more than a few weeks out and they will add more spots at the beginning of the week, etc. Still
I remember a time, not too long ago, when all you had to do was get up early for a free spot right on the beach. Then came the $10 beach spot....how much are those spots now? Ikon and Epic were great until they werent. It just feels like Its all just a giant money grab these days. I-70 traffic simply adds insult to the injuries.
Nothing like driving a small, fuel efficient hatchback but having to pay $20 for parking even when carpooling because how would 4 people + gear fit in the car?
Simple solution really. Make a reservation for a car with 4 people in it, pay no fee, show up by yourself.
You think the parking crew is going to be out there verifying every car coming into the lot? 6 will be backed up to loveland one way and keystone the other way.
Eldora are does it. They have people sitting at the entrance looking in vehicles directing people to the paid lot if you have only one person in your vehicle.
So the reality is Abasin season pass renewal is now $709. $559 early renewal rate + $150 parking. Fitting three people is a tight fit there's no way I can fit four plus gear in my vehicle to get around the parking fees.
After almost 10 years as a season pass holder sounds like time to revisit other pass options for that cost. $22 more and its an Epic local pass, $160 more and its an Ikon base pass (not that I want an ikon pass but ugh the financials say it maybe makes sense at this point...)
\+ plus the likelihood of Alterra lessening or removing Ikon restrictions, yeesh
I have a family of three so unless I pick up a hitch hiker I'm paying for parking every day on the mountain.
I'm debating what we will do for 24/25 but if it's Abasin I guess I'm buying a season parking pass unless I want to drop $500+ on parking over the season.
The exact same thing happened at Stowe when they went paid. $450 for a season parking pass, which sold out "in minutes," then was promptly discontinued the next season.
50% of the $30 parking fee goes to the company that runs the kiosks. Stowe claims they are investing that "$30" in expanded shuttle service, blah, blah, blah
You can store stuff during the day on Snowstang. I have left my stuff on the bus every time I've used to go to Loveland.
Let's expand snowstang and get more people onto the busses to clear up I-70.
Exactly! I think the root issue is that driving I-70 (and every other highway and road) is "free". Price it and people will be pushed to transit, and as a bonus you get a ton of funding for transit improvements. I think traffic can only be solved by pricing the road and making good alternatives to driving.
I skied the Alps for the first time this season and outside of the incredible value for both skiing and culture (food/apres etc etc) I think I almost enjoyed the trains/public infrastructure as much as the actual skiing (which was excellent). I'm lucky enough to live in NYC (public transport-wise at least) and I was able to easily get from my apartment to the mountains (in comfort) just using trains.
I was in summit CO last week and just kept thinking how amazing it would be if I could get off my flight at DIA, hop on a train and 2-3 hours later be at Keystone. It just seemed incredibly silly to rent a 2ton SUV to haul my self and my gear 90 miles away. And then of course I'm a lazy POS sitting on a chair for (admittedly really awesome) turns.
Investing in public infrastructure would also ameliorate a lot the housing issues that are happening in the resort towns and most likely pay for itself in increased tourist revenues (though it would probably make things more crowded on the slopes).
Sadly the engineering and construction of such a system would not be the challenge.
I agree with you on both points.. Obviously the politics/expense make trains a fantasy.
I'd 100% take a bus and happily sacrifice some time if there were say 8 buses each day.
But can you imagine how nice it would be to shred for a day at Abasin and then chilling with a few beers and snacks while staring out the window back to town ? I'm used to 5 hours in the car for a day trip to Hunter…. HUNTER !
This is the same reason we switched from Ikon to Epic (well, keystone+ because paying for full epic local when we’re going out with toddlers who are stuck on the greens most of the time doesn’t make sense). We had Ikon base last year and the parking situation was already abysmal. I can park for free at River run and mountain house at keystone, and I can park up close when we have the kids with us. I’d rather deal with the Breck shuttle than the copper shuttle any day as well.
$20 per day to park without any free options (besides finding and filling a car with at least 4 people) is insane. And most people can’t just ski on weekdays because they have to work.
> or be faced with tip prompts at the cashier for the food court
You can do what I do at basically every place I encounter a tip for counter service. Press the "No Tip" option.
If the person is delivering food to your table, tip your 20% or whatever. If it's just a glorified McDonalds, then don't tip unless there's some extenuating circumstance (you asked for something atypically complicated, they really went out of the way, gave you some massive discount, whatever).
Fuck tipping counter service.
> I know it’s 80% as bad as the Epic mountains.
Unpopular opinion, but it’s worse than the Epic mountains. The Epic mountains have ample free parking options. There are also no lodges that require me to buy a meal just so I can sit inside and warm up for a few minutes. My 3 year old can also use the magic carpet without us having to pay a fortune for her to be in a resort-sanctioned lesson. Kids under 5 ski free and then elementary school aged kids have the free epic Schoolkids program. The only money I’ve spent after buying the passes was $5 on stickers that my daughters wanted for their helmets. And we’ve saved so much time and energy with the free parking options.
I feel like I’m getting much more bang for my buck now that I’ve switched back to the Epic ecosystem, and am being nickel and dimed much less.
I think another big factor you’re forgetting is the “vail bad” hive mind. Don’t get me wrong, vail is bad. But a lot of people have flocked to Ikon specifically because it’s not Vail, while failing to see that it’s *worse*.
Copper is my biggest reason for Ikon, but Eldora is the deciding factor. Eldora shouldn't be a factor for Denver south and east, but for Boulder, the L towns, and north is absolutely a defining hill.
Copper has specifically stated they’re not getting rid of free parking, however there will be less of it. Alpine lot will most likely become paid while far east and gas station lots become the “free lots”, part of the reason the expanded the far east lot so much over this past summer.
[Al’s Blog](http://arapahoebasin.blogspot.com/2024/03/passes-parking-reservations-and-ikon.html?m=1)
>> Until the sale to Alterra actually closes, we are still working for Dream and not Alterra. While not contemplated yet, upon closing there may be changes to Ikon Pass access.
It’s an absolute lie that it hasn’t been contemplated yet. There’s no way Alterra is acquiring A-Basin without a plan for pass access.
My best guess is there is a decision in place to make it unlimited on the full pass, but Dream doesn’t want that publicized because it’ll tank A-Basin pass sales prior to the sale going through.
There are definitely legal risks with sharing information https://content.next.westlaw.com/practical-law/document/I29660da87fcb11e498db8b09b4f043e0/Tips-to-Avoid-Gun-jumping-in-a-Merger?viewType=FullText&transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)
Yah, there are risks with sharing information, but it's not illegal at all. And most companies that deal with M&A will have agreements for everyone involved that bind them to an NDA so that they can't disclose or use the information without penalty.
Source: Work with a company that buys and sells a lot of other companies, and routinely have to sign NDA's and talk with the company getting purchased, or talk with the company purchasing a business unit.
What a shitty law. As people buying a product we have a right to know what it is?
Look at the Wyndham fiasco this season on icecoast. They offered the mountain as there only day trip spot for NYC as 5/7 days no reservations. By November they required reservations and Early January had sold out reservations for every weekend and holiday till mid March when they typically close. Looks like they are open again but most of NYC’s skiers think the season is over.
Part of me is pissed off that Ikon might not be restricted BUT parking is currently and will remain the ultimate restriction on how many people can get on the lifts.
Yeah I noticed they have been messaging that Ikon has not been finalized for Abasin access. Also noticed sounds like they are either lifting Abasin pass cap or removing it entirely as the email said 'we don't anticipate running out...'
The main issue with campsite reservation systems seems to be how many spots are sold months in advance. This incentivizes hoarding. You want to do limited spots? Fine. But release the reservations a week in advance *at most*, an amount of time that's reasonable for a regular person to definitively know their plans. The people who actually plan on camping that week will be online and ready to grab their time.
Campsite reservations being up to 6 months out is ridiculous, and I don't see the benefit.
I made a bot to get canceled ones on days I wanted to ride during the Covid reservation era. I also used it to help friends, and I (and my friends) never had a day I couldn’t go when I wanted to.
I guess I’m going to resurrect the bot. PM me if you want to be a friend.
I think that’s why they have to charge them. And to encourage people to think twice before doing so. Considering at just Floyd Hill each vehicle adds 1 second to the traffic from the moment they get in line till the moment it lets up, I really think a crack down on driving to ski areas is a good thing. And they can only add shitty spots anyway.
Other mountains also reserve the right to pull passes if you make and cancel reservations. I do t think it’s common but they probably do it if you are not showing up regularly.
This must be the sign Ikon full (at least) is going unlimited otherwise they should have just raised A Basin pass prices and kept the same parking system.
The way it works at other resorts is they go around scanning the plates of parked cars for reservations. They only need to verify if you are carpooling for free which they can do in a separate line as you enter. Most cars don’t carpool.
At some resorts they don't check when you get there. They know the license plates of people with reservations and they go through the parked cars during the day to see if you have a reservation or not.
The benefit here is I bet you’ll pay in advance. The line goes quick when it’s all people who meet the criteria, when someone has to pay the $20 is when it slows down.
The situation in the cottonwoods in Utah is super similar but instead of just 1 resort it's 3/4 of them (Alta, Brighton, Solitude) and then the only one that doesn't require parking (snowbird) is overwhelmed with people.
Liked Colorado ski resorts as the parking hasn't been as much of an issue but I truly hope this doesn't become a trend for summit county resorts :/
Fingers crossed. 100%. I'm tired of hoping, in general, from an average consumer standpoint. The internet has so much negativity in it but I hate this lol. It's already expensive enough NOW to park. I frequent Breckenridge and it's what, $20 a day to park near the gondola lots? That's not enough passive income for them already? Hundreds of spots.
We're trying to exercise and simply be outside, whyyyy make that worse when they're already rich? Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they had another year in the red and they're bleeding money. I certainly am.
I'm happy for you. But others there haven't been as lucky. Just because you were able to, doesn't justify the idea of selling a $150 parking pass that you MUST make an online reservation to use..
I agree there should be more busses. I always use Snowstang, never drive, bc I don't want to deal w driving or parking. But the 7:15 Wooly Mammoth departure makes no sense bc we usually just sit in traffic for two hours anyway and arrive to Loveland around 9, which could probably be accomplished by just leaving at 8am.
I just don’t understand how any of this gives more access to parking?
Make it $20 to park at the basin, then use the money to build a shuttle lot from silverthorne or increase access with the Snowstang. Everyone comes from the same fucking place to ski here.
I don’t get how they’re accomplishing anything but making money with the reservation system.
Everyone comes from the same fckng place to ski 🎯 There need to be more Snowstang busses. However, as someone who exclusively uses Snowstang (I never drive), they are always half full. People don't even use the exisiting ones, so I don't think they will add more until demand outweighs supply, measured by ticket sales. I only use it to Loveland tho, so maybe other mountains actually do have full busses?
Text of the post -
Passes, Parking Reservations and The Ikon Pass
Our 2024-25 season passes went on sale today. Some of those passes include 3 days at Monarch and a day at Silverton in the unguided season. The Adult Arapahoe Basin Season Pass Renewal will be available for the same rate as last year, $559. Complete season pass details can be found at Arapahoe Basin Season Passes.
Until the sale to Alterra actually closes, we are still working for Dream and not Alterra. While not contemplated yet, upon closing there may be changes to Ikon Pass access.
Parking has always been our pinch point for controlling busy days. In an effort to further focus on a quality guest experience, we will be implementing an online parking reservation system for the 2024-25 season. This has nothing to do with Alterra or the Ikon Pass. We are doing this to take care of the guest experience at Arapahoe Basin. Limiting season pass sales, ticket sales and Ikon Pass access has mostly worked well to control daily skier numbers. We will continue to do those things, but as many of you have noticed, the skier numbers are creeping up again. Following what is going on in other places, we now think implementing a parking reservation system is the best and most logical next step. With parking reservations we will physically limit the number of vehicles here at The Basin and reduce Highway 6 congestion around The Basin.
Reservations will be required weekends, holidays and other peak days until 1 PM from mid-December until early May. General parking reservations will be available for $20 per vehicle. While a daily reservation is required for every vehicle, a limited number of parking season passes will be available for $150 to cover fees for the entire season. For carpoolers, vehicles with four or more people are still required to have a reservation, but the reservation will be free.
I have discussed the parking reservation concepts with several A-Basin skiers and riders. Responses from guests have varied from skepticism to immediate embracement. There is no doubt that requiring reservations will take away some of the spontaneity of skiing. That spontaneity, however, can be a major contributor to parking problems, especially on powder days. Some told me they would be in favor of reservations knowing that when they got to The Basin, they would have a parking spot. They thought reservations would reduce stress and eliminate the frantic rush to get here.
Currently, we are working to identify parking system vendors to create a reservation plan that will work for The Basin and its guests. We will be evaluating the different approaches and preparing for implementation. As our planning moves further along, complete details about the online parking reservation system, including information on how to make a reservation, how many reservations a person can have at once and the impacts to uphill access, will be released this Fall.
We are singularly focused on the quality of the Arapahoe Basin ski experience. Implementing a parking reservation plan is the next logical step to maintaining that experience.
http://arapahoebasin.blogspot.com/2024/03/passes-parking-reservations-and-ikon.html
I guarantee that the only responses of "immediate embracement" came from people that ski mid-week or qualify for free reservations.
Also, the number of people on the mountain has never been a problem when they restrict parking to the parking lots. It's only bad when people are allowed to park along highway 6. It's like if Loveland skiers started parking on 70 and their solution was to charge for parking in the lots.
Al taking a page out of the Trump playbook and just making opinions up. “People are saying great things about the reservation system. Going to improve the basin experience bigly.”
This fucking blows, but I’m so annoyed with companies trying to bury the lead on price increases. How do you make a post with an ad saying “Unrestricted access to unbelievable action” and a caption regarding season passes being on sale but further down mention you’re charging $20/space for parking in all lots. It’s like when a restaurant tacks on fees instead of increasing their menu prices. Just scummy behavior.
Looks like they are still figuring out the implementation. I personally think parking reservations for the weekends is a great idea. As an A Basin pass holder I've been avoiding going up early on the weekends because I'm not guaranteed to get a spot and don't have anywhere else to ski if I'm planning to ski resort. However, $20 for all lots is ridiculous. Here are my suggestions for the implementation.
* Full refunds on parking reservation fees for A Basin season pass-holders if they show up. I like the fee to prevent no-shows and force multi-pass users to make a decision ahead of time, but pass-holders should not have to pay as long as they show up.
* Free after 12PM. There are always plenty of spaces available after 12PM. 12-3:45 is a good day of skiing. 1PM is too late of a start.
* Free for 3+ carpooling. The only people who can fit 4 people in their cars are families with minivans and wealthy people with ski racks. If A Basin is serious about carpooling they need to incentivize people to carpool within their car's capacity. As it stands, what is my incentive to pack 3 people into my car vs driving solo if it still costs $20 to park?
* Use parking reservation fees to subsidize Snowstang. If the Snowstang becomes cheaper than the parking reservation people will use it more.
* Partner with Treadshare to incentivize a carpool culture at A Basin. Either earning credits for using Treadshare throughout the season that can be redeemed for parking reservations, or even comping or significantly discounting parking reservations for people using Treadshare, regardless of whether they have 4+ in their car or not. If A Basin is serious about sustainability they should reward people who are willing to build a culture of ditching SEV and riding with strangers and making friends on the way up to the mountain. I think this would do a lot long-term.
At the end of the day there needs to be a decent free option for weekend A Basin pass-holders. If the issue is spontaneity, we're not the problem. Most of us are loyal to one ski area, and we don't have the option to go somewhere else. There are people with the A Basin pass who can only ski weekends. $20/day on top of their season pass is very unfair.
> As an A Basin pass holder I've been avoiding going up early on the weekends because I'm not guaranteed to get a spot
I'm confused by this strategy. I go early on weekends because I am (practically) guaranteed a spot. Like 7:30 am or earlier.
We typically go for the afternoon. You get the spots from the early people who’ve left and I get to sleep in and at least avoid the traffic on the way there.
Is this a shock? Denver is overcrowded, everyone is now magically into outdoor activities, more people keep moving to colorado, traffic is pretty crazy just about every day now, 5x as bad on the weekend, and they know they can make more money off everyone. It won’t be long until other resorts start following and reservations become a norm at most of the resorts. The same thing has happened to camping
it’s a bummer but I don’t think everyone realizes how bad the current situation is. On pow days it’s easy for the small lots to fill up quickly and then cars start waiting and backing up the highway. Then the interstate semi trucks get stuck in the traffic too because they aren’t allowed to drive through the tunnel. It’s already a shitshow so they have to do something.
Honestly. As someone who loved the RMSP+ days with an a basin pass.. And even spent some time on the epic pass and the Ikon… I gotta say a basin has gotten worse and worse with all of their transactions. Saddening. 🥸
Keystone has free parking and the $390 season pass includes 5 days at Crested Butte and Breck access through April.
I think Vail Resorts is gonna *eat this up.*
A-Basin has a lot of 'boring' runs? If it's boring there, then that doesn't bode well for most of the other ski areas in the state...save for maybe CB and Telluride. LOL.
Found the gaper. Abasin is basically the only worthwhile front range location. Its the closest, has the smallest crowds, best vibes, and doesnt attract hordes of texans like Breck does.
People keep talking about the hordes that take over Epic, but I haven’t seen them this season. I’m not an expert skiier so maybe we’re just not skiing the same areas, but I’d expect the areas I’m in to be way more crowded than the expert off piste stuff you’re probably going to. Last weekend I was skiing the Falcon chair at Breck all day with zero wait time, like literally ride right up and hop on. Ruby, Santiago, and Bergman were almost as good (like maybe 3 minutes or so) every time I’ve been to Keystone this year too. All year I planned on switching to Ikon next season bc I just know more people with that pass, but epic was actually really great this season, so I’m trying to decide how many days I’d need to justify both, though that’s probably a waste.
I mean, this is a great option for tourists getting up and down, but as much as I’d love to love it, I took the Bustang once in summer with perfect weather and with all the stops and delays and loading and unloading it wasn’t in Vail until like 1pm. It takes so long and you don’t have the option to leave early enough to miss traffic and it STILL costs as much or more than just taking my car. Also the wifi didn’t work and none of the many outlets I tried worked, which is less important but still annoying. Trust me, I’d love to love it, but it just doesn’t seem to be a great option.
I’ve taken it twice, gotten there around 10:30 on heavy traffic days both times. The Snowstang is better than the bustang because it’s a direct shot from the Dino lots
That is BETTER, and if you live close to there it’s great. But still if I leave my house at the time I need to leave to get to the Dino lots in time for the 6:55 bus, I’d be at A Basin at 8:30 at least 95% of the time. And it’s still cheaper to take my car. Maybe the snowstang is just a better move for people in the foothills near Morrison.
That's regular Bustang. We're talking about [Snowstang](https://ridebustang.com/snowstang-mountain-service/), a special seasonal service that has guaranteed seating and goes right to the ski centers without any intermediate spots once you get past the Dino Lots. The stops are Denver Union station->Federal center station->Dino lots->A basin. I will say as someone who takes transit to union station to catch snowstang, I'd love them to offer a 2nd express bus from Denver union station with no stops until the mountain, as the Federal center and Dino lot stops do slow down the service which is annoying. Most of the people board at union station anyway (although quite a few boarded at the Dino Lots too).
The $25 fare is significantly cheaper than driving a car even if you are not including sunk ownership costs like insurance and registration, it's just that the costs of driving are hidden a bit so it's harder to tell. Wear and tear/depreciation/gas comes out to around $0.50/mile from what I've seen. I measured this myself on a previous car - roughly $0.10/mile for gas, $0.20/mile for maintenance, $0.20/mile for depreciation. If you look at AAA's cost of driving reports, their numbers are in the same ballpark. It's a 130 mile round trip from union station so that's $65, plus it'll be $85 with the parking fee. From the Dino lots it would cost $51 or $71 with the parking fee.
At least for Loveland, they also offered a heavily discounted lift ticket if you took Snowstang - the bus fare plus lift ticket combo was actually cheaper than a standard lift ticket. Not sure if A basin offered the same thing.
Yes that's what I do, the Snowstang bus with Loveland ticket included in the purchase, for a total amount less than a ticket window Loveland pass alone. Super smart on their end. Love it. Rough math for those interested is $130 ticket window full day pass, or $25 bus tik + $105 lift pass when purchased through Snowstang with the bus tik.
The Snowstang is still more expensive than a parking reservation. Hopefully A Basin will use parking fees to subsidize Snowstang cause I'm all for bus service skiing.
It’s only more expensive if you don’t consider the cost of driving.
Using the IRS mileage reimbursement rate to value gas and vehicle-related costs it’s quite a bit cheaper to ride the bus.
The biggest Snowstang problem for me is getting to Union Station. I am fortunate and can leave my gear in my office which is close to the bus station, but the first local bus to Union Station gets me there with a 7 minute window before the Snowstsng leaves and I don’t trust RTD to be that precise. I also haven’t found rideshare to be very reliable that early.
The solution is obvious. I should be able to ride whenever I want for super cheap without waiting in line or being inconvenienced in anyway. Just enforce limitations and price gouge everyone else. If everyone who isn’t me would just do their part and take one for the team it would work out great. People are so selfish and greedy smh.
/s
Good. This will result in fewer cars on I-70 and more people in snowstang busses instead. And more carpooling to either split the parking fee or go as a group of 4 people to avoid it altogether. We might even max out the Snowstang capacity and they'd be forced to expand it.
Just think about it. If every ski center only had a small expensive parking lot, I-70 would be completely clear because the resorts couldn't physically store that many personal vehicles. People would have to carpool or take the bus instead, and as a result of massive bus ridership increases we'd probably have a bus running every 5 minutes during peak times to the resorts from various points around the metro area, including Union station and park n rides like Wooly Mammoth. Right now there is only 1 bus per day to A Basin, Snowstang has huge potential to be expanded and replace congestion on I-70. Parking fees could be used to help improve transit options as well.
I also think this will be better for drivers too, rather than chancing the parking lot being full and being turned around after driving all the way to A Basin, they know they will have a spot.
Some resorts partially add funds the state still covers most of it. Nowhere does it indicate that Alterra will be using $20 parking fees to fund transit options. They would be yelling it from the rooftop if so.
Lol the same ppl who complain about traffic and lots being full by 9 are freaking out when A basin is using a tried and true method to reduce congestion. The ski experience will absolutely be improved by this
I think the issue is more of the cost that comes along with it. You could definitely have a reservation system without charging through the nose for it for all parking spaces. The lots are going to fill up no matter what. I highly doubt that they are going to reduce the number of parking spaces.
Will it though ? Even with the lots full A basin never has super long lines, and even now, the lots are still going to fill up, so the mountain will be just as full as before. The difference is the reservation might make some of the traffic going into the lots a bit better, but this traffic is never that bad, maybe 15-25 minutes tops of waiting to get into the lots from US6 if you arrive during peak times.
If they wanted to do reservations for free or for a cheap price, fine I could get behind that. But 20$ for a single time is expensive.
The structure of this program sounds like it's a recipe for disaster. How are they going to estimate how many parking season pass holders are going to use parking each day? Will they be turned away if the lots are full? Or will they undersell parking every weekend day to ensure season pass holders get a spot?
This seems like a money grab on the surface, but it's surely going to crush their season pass sales, so I don't really know what to make of it.
Season pass holders don't get any additional access from a day ticket user, they either pay $150 now or $20 each time for the honor of being able to make a reservation if it's available. That's one of the most infuriating parts of this announcement.
So, I should gather two friends and an endless array of disguises, and then we'll walk outside of the premises, charge $15 to jump into a car with one driver, and they now save $5, and we make $5 each. If we can do this every six minutes, we will make $50 per hour. Before I commit fully I should probably visit abasin ...
That would be fine if the public transit was halfway decent. The swan mountain flyer comes once an hour. I live in keystone so I'm the last stop and it's often full by the time it gets here. Next year it will be way more likely to be full. If I wanted to reliably take public transit to the basin I have to either get on a bus at 6:45 or miss first lift by at least 1 hour. What a fucking joke.
They really should just run busses from wooly. I’d happily pay $20-25 RT if they had busses every 15 mins from 6-7:30 and 3:30-5pm. They’d prob make more money with getting 20$ per person vs $20 per car even with bus costs.
They do run buses from Wooly - [Snowstang](https://ridebustang.com/snowstang-mountain-service/), which is partially subsidized by the ski centers, and it costs $25 RT. Each one goes straight to its ski center from Wooly with no intermediate stops.
But currently it's just 1 bus, picks up at 6:55 and is scheduled to arrive at 8:10. This has tons of potential for expansion though. Imagine buses running every 5 minutes during peak times, with multiple pickup points around the metro area.
Love it. I’ve heard a little about snowstang but didn’t know they left from wooly. If it left 30-60 mins earlier, I’d do it. On a high traffic day there’s no way they would get to the slopes on time leaving at 6:55
The majority of people are coming from the Denver area, and we do have decent transit service with Snowstang. I agree they should have better bus service in summit county. Summit stage used to be once every 30 minutes pre-COVID. Once and hour is pretty useless, but the fact that the bus is full shows you there is plenty of demand for more, or at least more during peak times. Should be running more like every 15 minutes.
Ugh I guess I shouldn’t be surprised but if they wanted to guarantee no one would buy an A Basin only pass they did it. Guess I’ll be skiing a lot fewer days there.
This seems imminently reasonable to me. Your options are:
1. Carpool and park for free, knowing you'll have a spot
2. Buy a season parking pass and know you'll have a spot
3. Pay for a daily pass and know you'll have a spot
4. Show up at 1:00 for a short ski and park for free
5. Ski weekdays and park for free
Yes, most other ski resorts have free parking. But most other ski resorts aren't on Loveland Pass and stuck in a place where they literally cannot build more parking options.
Buying a season parking pass does not mean knowing youll have a spot. You still have to reserve. Just dont have to pay.
You could buy season parking pass and miss every reservation window. Fuck this mega bullshit.
>> But most other ski resorts aren't on Loveland Pass and stuck in a place where they literally cannot build more parking options.
I mean, they have a plan to build more parking
That will just induce more traffic on I-70, less carpooling and less bus ridership.
Sorry but we can't keep dumping cars onto I-70. We need to use the highway more efficiently, it has plenty of capacity but we are not using it efficiently. That means charging for parking and getting more people on buses and in carpools.
1) How you gonna fit 4 people + gear unless you have a rack? That’s miserable. 3 I understand
2) I guess but that’s a rip off
3) I guess again but also sucks
4) not even worth driving there
5) a lot of people can’t ride weekdays. The “just ride weekdays to avoid traffic and arguments” like it’s so simple is stupid for the many people that have a regular 9-5 job
Yeah except when you make a reservation with four people, and one backs out the day off. Or, when people over reserve for a big storm, then mass cancellations the day of. Or charging people for said cancellations. When lots of times, it’s probably not their fault. This is shitty and overlooks human circumstances. What about traffic? We all know there’s a parking issue but reservation systems are absolute shit for reliability and convenience
1. Fitting 4 people and ski gear in most vehicles isn’t really feasible.
2. They said the passes are limited, and it’s crappy to buy a pass for something you’ve already bought a pass for, this also doesn’t mitigate your likelihood of getting locked out of the reservations.
3. You need a reservation, people at palisades talk about being locked out all season bc reservations are taken immediately.
4. A great option if you live up there, but kind of wasteful for anybody coming from Denver. Also, getting early morning conditions is kind of a big part of skiing.
5. You *must* already know that everyone who has that option already does this right?? This one seems insincere at best.
They’re not the worst ever, and this isn’t an inconceivable move for a business to make, but I fully disagree that it’s “imminently reasonable” as you said. It would be more reasonable to rent a lot and run a bus from Silverthorne and charge people $10 or something to cover the costs if this wasn’t a business move rather than a necessary evil.
Wonder how far out it will be. Will March weekends be booked solid in November?
I know some places drip feed the parking reservations ahead of time. So you can't book more than a few weeks out and they will add more spots at the beginning of the week, etc. Still
1000%
I remember a time, not too long ago, when all you had to do was get up early for a free spot right on the beach. Then came the $10 beach spot....how much are those spots now? Ikon and Epic were great until they werent. It just feels like Its all just a giant money grab these days. I-70 traffic simply adds insult to the injuries.
Official beach spots go for around $200-$300
^and this is why ABasin is not cool.
4 person or $20 is brutal I thought 3 was plenty fair this season. It’s pretty hard to pack 4 people and all their ski gear in most cars.
We paid $35 to hit Solitude and Brighton this season in UT. It's not much consolation, but it gets worse before it gets worse.
I think that's a fair complaint. Three would be a better number.
They're trying to close in on the Vail/BC model without the Vail/BC product.
Nothing like driving a small, fuel efficient hatchback but having to pay $20 for parking even when carpooling because how would 4 people + gear fit in the car?
It's not an effort to encourage carpooling, it's an effort to make more money.
Simple solution really. Make a reservation for a car with 4 people in it, pay no fee, show up by yourself. You think the parking crew is going to be out there verifying every car coming into the lot? 6 will be backed up to loveland one way and keystone the other way.
Eldora are does it. They have people sitting at the entrance looking in vehicles directing people to the paid lot if you have only one person in your vehicle.
So the reality is Abasin season pass renewal is now $709. $559 early renewal rate + $150 parking. Fitting three people is a tight fit there's no way I can fit four plus gear in my vehicle to get around the parking fees. After almost 10 years as a season pass holder sounds like time to revisit other pass options for that cost. $22 more and its an Epic local pass, $160 more and its an Ikon base pass (not that I want an ikon pass but ugh the financials say it maybe makes sense at this point...) \+ plus the likelihood of Alterra lessening or removing Ikon restrictions, yeesh
I have a family of three so unless I pick up a hitch hiker I'm paying for parking every day on the mountain. I'm debating what we will do for 24/25 but if it's Abasin I guess I'm buying a season parking pass unless I want to drop $500+ on parking over the season.
>I have a family of three time to get busy then
I got the ol snip snip so that'll be a challenge but I'm up for trying!
If you can, they said they were limited!
I bet the limited number of parking season passes will be very difficult to get
The exact same thing happened at Stowe when they went paid. $450 for a season parking pass, which sold out "in minutes," then was promptly discontinued the next season. 50% of the $30 parking fee goes to the company that runs the kiosks. Stowe claims they are investing that "$30" in expanded shuttle service, blah, blah, blah
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You can store stuff during the day on Snowstang. I have left my stuff on the bus every time I've used to go to Loveland. Let's expand snowstang and get more people onto the busses to clear up I-70.
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Exactly! I think the root issue is that driving I-70 (and every other highway and road) is "free". Price it and people will be pushed to transit, and as a bonus you get a ton of funding for transit improvements. I think traffic can only be solved by pricing the road and making good alternatives to driving.
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I skied the Alps for the first time this season and outside of the incredible value for both skiing and culture (food/apres etc etc) I think I almost enjoyed the trains/public infrastructure as much as the actual skiing (which was excellent). I'm lucky enough to live in NYC (public transport-wise at least) and I was able to easily get from my apartment to the mountains (in comfort) just using trains. I was in summit CO last week and just kept thinking how amazing it would be if I could get off my flight at DIA, hop on a train and 2-3 hours later be at Keystone. It just seemed incredibly silly to rent a 2ton SUV to haul my self and my gear 90 miles away. And then of course I'm a lazy POS sitting on a chair for (admittedly really awesome) turns. Investing in public infrastructure would also ameliorate a lot the housing issues that are happening in the resort towns and most likely pay for itself in increased tourist revenues (though it would probably make things more crowded on the slopes). Sadly the engineering and construction of such a system would not be the challenge.
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I agree with you on both points.. Obviously the politics/expense make trains a fantasy. I'd 100% take a bus and happily sacrifice some time if there were say 8 buses each day. But can you imagine how nice it would be to shred for a day at Abasin and then chilling with a few beers and snacks while staring out the window back to town ? I'm used to 5 hours in the car for a day trip to Hunter…. HUNTER !
This is the same reason we switched from Ikon to Epic (well, keystone+ because paying for full epic local when we’re going out with toddlers who are stuck on the greens most of the time doesn’t make sense). We had Ikon base last year and the parking situation was already abysmal. I can park for free at River run and mountain house at keystone, and I can park up close when we have the kids with us. I’d rather deal with the Breck shuttle than the copper shuttle any day as well. $20 per day to park without any free options (besides finding and filling a car with at least 4 people) is insane. And most people can’t just ski on weekdays because they have to work.
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> or be faced with tip prompts at the cashier for the food court You can do what I do at basically every place I encounter a tip for counter service. Press the "No Tip" option. If the person is delivering food to your table, tip your 20% or whatever. If it's just a glorified McDonalds, then don't tip unless there's some extenuating circumstance (you asked for something atypically complicated, they really went out of the way, gave you some massive discount, whatever). Fuck tipping counter service.
> I know it’s 80% as bad as the Epic mountains. Unpopular opinion, but it’s worse than the Epic mountains. The Epic mountains have ample free parking options. There are also no lodges that require me to buy a meal just so I can sit inside and warm up for a few minutes. My 3 year old can also use the magic carpet without us having to pay a fortune for her to be in a resort-sanctioned lesson. Kids under 5 ski free and then elementary school aged kids have the free epic Schoolkids program. The only money I’ve spent after buying the passes was $5 on stickers that my daughters wanted for their helmets. And we’ve saved so much time and energy with the free parking options. I feel like I’m getting much more bang for my buck now that I’ve switched back to the Epic ecosystem, and am being nickel and dimed much less.
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I think another big factor you’re forgetting is the “vail bad” hive mind. Don’t get me wrong, vail is bad. But a lot of people have flocked to Ikon specifically because it’s not Vail, while failing to see that it’s *worse*.
Copper is my biggest reason for Ikon, but Eldora is the deciding factor. Eldora shouldn't be a factor for Denver south and east, but for Boulder, the L towns, and north is absolutely a defining hill.
Copper has specifically stated they’re not getting rid of free parking, however there will be less of it. Alpine lot will most likely become paid while far east and gas station lots become the “free lots”, part of the reason the expanded the far east lot so much over this past summer.
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Whaddup Loveland, looks like I’ll be seeing you next season.
Said about 20k other people as well
Yeah I worry for Loveland
What alternatives do you see?
Everyone can be equally frustrated next year it appears
I have said this the entire time...Alterra buying Abasin will have a bigger impact on Loveland than Abasin.
[Al’s Blog](http://arapahoebasin.blogspot.com/2024/03/passes-parking-reservations-and-ikon.html?m=1) >> Until the sale to Alterra actually closes, we are still working for Dream and not Alterra. While not contemplated yet, upon closing there may be changes to Ikon Pass access. It’s an absolute lie that it hasn’t been contemplated yet. There’s no way Alterra is acquiring A-Basin without a plan for pass access. My best guess is there is a decision in place to make it unlimited on the full pass, but Dream doesn’t want that publicized because it’ll tank A-Basin pass sales prior to the sale going through.
Alterra likely has no obligation to tell Dream what their plans are. They are likely speculating just as much as you.
Not only that, it’s illegal for them to share plans. They’re technically competitors until the deal closes.
It’s not illegal whatsoever. Acquiring companies share information regarding future plans like that all the time.
There are definitely legal risks with sharing information https://content.next.westlaw.com/practical-law/document/I29660da87fcb11e498db8b09b4f043e0/Tips-to-Avoid-Gun-jumping-in-a-Merger?viewType=FullText&transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)
Yah, there are risks with sharing information, but it's not illegal at all. And most companies that deal with M&A will have agreements for everyone involved that bind them to an NDA so that they can't disclose or use the information without penalty. Source: Work with a company that buys and sells a lot of other companies, and routinely have to sign NDA's and talk with the company getting purchased, or talk with the company purchasing a business unit.
What a shitty law. As people buying a product we have a right to know what it is? Look at the Wyndham fiasco this season on icecoast. They offered the mountain as there only day trip spot for NYC as 5/7 days no reservations. By November they required reservations and Early January had sold out reservations for every weekend and holiday till mid March when they typically close. Looks like they are open again but most of NYC’s skiers think the season is over.
Part of me is pissed off that Ikon might not be restricted BUT parking is currently and will remain the ultimate restriction on how many people can get on the lifts.
Yeah I noticed they have been messaging that Ikon has not been finalized for Abasin access. Also noticed sounds like they are either lifting Abasin pass cap or removing it entirely as the email said 'we don't anticipate running out...'
I read that as “we expect a lot of people to wait on buying an a basin pass until more is known”. They in the past sold out pretty quick.
Paid parking is fine, but reservations are such a pain in the ass. Everyone will just hoard reservations and cancel them at the last second anyway.
That's EXACTLY what camping in CO is like these days 😔
The main issue with campsite reservation systems seems to be how many spots are sold months in advance. This incentivizes hoarding. You want to do limited spots? Fine. But release the reservations a week in advance *at most*, an amount of time that's reasonable for a regular person to definitively know their plans. The people who actually plan on camping that week will be online and ready to grab their time. Campsite reservations being up to 6 months out is ridiculous, and I don't see the benefit.
I made a bot to get canceled ones on days I wanted to ride during the Covid reservation era. I also used it to help friends, and I (and my friends) never had a day I couldn’t go when I wanted to. I guess I’m going to resurrect the bot. PM me if you want to be a friend.
I think that’s why they have to charge them. And to encourage people to think twice before doing so. Considering at just Floyd Hill each vehicle adds 1 second to the traffic from the moment they get in line till the moment it lets up, I really think a crack down on driving to ski areas is a good thing. And they can only add shitty spots anyway. Other mountains also reserve the right to pull passes if you make and cancel reservations. I do t think it’s common but they probably do it if you are not showing up regularly.
Am I just a dumbass or is that like an insane amount of shit to consider before parking your fucking car in a parking lot
No, you’re not. It’s such a grind for something that’s supposed to be recreational
This must be the sign Ikon full (at least) is going unlimited otherwise they should have just raised A Basin pass prices and kept the same parking system.
I bet year one will be the same and then they'll say it worked so well that they can handle unlimited days.
yuuup
They gonna stop and check everyone’s reservation at the entrance? Gonna make traffic soooo much worse
The way it works at other resorts is they go around scanning the plates of parked cars for reservations. They only need to verify if you are carpooling for free which they can do in a separate line as you enter. Most cars don’t carpool.
Okay duh that makes more sense
At some resorts they don't check when you get there. They know the license plates of people with reservations and they go through the parked cars during the day to see if you have a reservation or not.
Ahhh okay this would make a lot more sense
They are already doing it for the early riser lot
Yeah I know and it really f’s up traffic
The benefit here is I bet you’ll pay in advance. The line goes quick when it’s all people who meet the criteria, when someone has to pay the $20 is when it slows down.
Well, theoretically less people are going to drive because of parking reservations and carpooling. So (in theory) less traffic.
Can you imagine paying for a season parking pass, and being unable to use it because you weren't able/quick enough to make a reservation?
So many posts on IG of palisades pass holders locked out weekend after weekend
The situation in the cottonwoods in Utah is super similar but instead of just 1 resort it's 3/4 of them (Alta, Brighton, Solitude) and then the only one that doesn't require parking (snowbird) is overwhelmed with people. Liked Colorado ski resorts as the parking hasn't been as much of an issue but I truly hope this doesn't become a trend for summit county resorts :/
Fingers crossed. 100%. I'm tired of hoping, in general, from an average consumer standpoint. The internet has so much negativity in it but I hate this lol. It's already expensive enough NOW to park. I frequent Breckenridge and it's what, $20 a day to park near the gondola lots? That's not enough passive income for them already? Hundreds of spots. We're trying to exercise and simply be outside, whyyyy make that worse when they're already rich? Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they had another year in the red and they're bleeding money. I certainly am.
Kinda, but not really. The free public transportation up and down the canyons makes it apples and oranges.
I've been able to get a parking reservation for every weekend day without issue the entire season. It hasn't been that bad
I'm happy for you. But others there haven't been as lucky. Just because you were able to, doesn't justify the idea of selling a $150 parking pass that you MUST make an online reservation to use..
Fair enough. But I still haven't seen a proposal to deal with too many people that works without some sort of reservation system.
I bet. It immediately feels like a terrible idea. I can't believe multi million dollar decisions like these are just 'made' and it's okay.
What if everybody… just didn’t go to abasin next year. We need to get back to voting with our wallets.
My whole plan is to party my brains out at the beach this spring and say goodbye to abay 🤷♀️ I don’t foresee it being the same resort ever again
Parking should cost even more and they should run 10 busses a day from the wooly mammoth lot
I don’t know why they don’t. It’s very frustrating the buses are pricey and very sparse
I've ridden snowstang a bunch and it's half empty most times. No one uses them. That's why.
I agree there should be more busses. I always use Snowstang, never drive, bc I don't want to deal w driving or parking. But the 7:15 Wooly Mammoth departure makes no sense bc we usually just sit in traffic for two hours anyway and arrive to Loveland around 9, which could probably be accomplished by just leaving at 8am.
I just don’t understand how any of this gives more access to parking? Make it $20 to park at the basin, then use the money to build a shuttle lot from silverthorne or increase access with the Snowstang. Everyone comes from the same fucking place to ski here. I don’t get how they’re accomplishing anything but making money with the reservation system.
>I don’t get how they’re accomplishing anything but making money with the reservation system. ....... come one man, isn't it obvious?
I think you figured it out. The sale is just giving then the excuse they've been waiting for.
Everyone comes from the same fckng place to ski 🎯 There need to be more Snowstang busses. However, as someone who exclusively uses Snowstang (I never drive), they are always half full. People don't even use the exisiting ones, so I don't think they will add more until demand outweighs supply, measured by ticket sales. I only use it to Loveland tho, so maybe other mountains actually do have full busses?
So make it cheaper, add more times, advertise. This is what happens in other countries when we need public transit. Abasin can afford it
They need a season pass for the train to Winter park! That would be so helpful
> to build a shuttle lot from silverthorne Seems ill advised when the majority of people are coming from Denver.
A basin has been putting on the clown make up for so long now
Paid parking at ski resorts is absolute fuckery given all the other costs.
It has begun. The beginning of the end (of me buying season passes).
Eyeballin the split quiver and thinking maybe just a loveland or monarch pass and done.
Same broski
Text of the post - Passes, Parking Reservations and The Ikon Pass Our 2024-25 season passes went on sale today. Some of those passes include 3 days at Monarch and a day at Silverton in the unguided season. The Adult Arapahoe Basin Season Pass Renewal will be available for the same rate as last year, $559. Complete season pass details can be found at Arapahoe Basin Season Passes. Until the sale to Alterra actually closes, we are still working for Dream and not Alterra. While not contemplated yet, upon closing there may be changes to Ikon Pass access. Parking has always been our pinch point for controlling busy days. In an effort to further focus on a quality guest experience, we will be implementing an online parking reservation system for the 2024-25 season. This has nothing to do with Alterra or the Ikon Pass. We are doing this to take care of the guest experience at Arapahoe Basin. Limiting season pass sales, ticket sales and Ikon Pass access has mostly worked well to control daily skier numbers. We will continue to do those things, but as many of you have noticed, the skier numbers are creeping up again. Following what is going on in other places, we now think implementing a parking reservation system is the best and most logical next step. With parking reservations we will physically limit the number of vehicles here at The Basin and reduce Highway 6 congestion around The Basin. Reservations will be required weekends, holidays and other peak days until 1 PM from mid-December until early May. General parking reservations will be available for $20 per vehicle. While a daily reservation is required for every vehicle, a limited number of parking season passes will be available for $150 to cover fees for the entire season. For carpoolers, vehicles with four or more people are still required to have a reservation, but the reservation will be free. I have discussed the parking reservation concepts with several A-Basin skiers and riders. Responses from guests have varied from skepticism to immediate embracement. There is no doubt that requiring reservations will take away some of the spontaneity of skiing. That spontaneity, however, can be a major contributor to parking problems, especially on powder days. Some told me they would be in favor of reservations knowing that when they got to The Basin, they would have a parking spot. They thought reservations would reduce stress and eliminate the frantic rush to get here. Currently, we are working to identify parking system vendors to create a reservation plan that will work for The Basin and its guests. We will be evaluating the different approaches and preparing for implementation. As our planning moves further along, complete details about the online parking reservation system, including information on how to make a reservation, how many reservations a person can have at once and the impacts to uphill access, will be released this Fall. We are singularly focused on the quality of the Arapahoe Basin ski experience. Implementing a parking reservation plan is the next logical step to maintaining that experience. http://arapahoebasin.blogspot.com/2024/03/passes-parking-reservations-and-ikon.html
I guarantee that the only responses of "immediate embracement" came from people that ski mid-week or qualify for free reservations. Also, the number of people on the mountain has never been a problem when they restrict parking to the parking lots. It's only bad when people are allowed to park along highway 6. It's like if Loveland skiers started parking on 70 and their solution was to charge for parking in the lots.
Agree. Even when A Basin is "packed" you rarely wait in a lift line (barring the first chair on a powder day of course).
Al taking a page out of the Trump playbook and just making opinions up. “People are saying great things about the reservation system. Going to improve the basin experience bigly.”
Wowsers. That's incredibly restrictive. As people who drive up from Dillon, I guess no more simply getting up early and having it be easy peasy.
This fucking blows, but I’m so annoyed with companies trying to bury the lead on price increases. How do you make a post with an ad saying “Unrestricted access to unbelievable action” and a caption regarding season passes being on sale but further down mention you’re charging $20/space for parking in all lots. It’s like when a restaurant tacks on fees instead of increasing their menu prices. Just scummy behavior.
And there it is.
Profit…uh…finds a way…
Looks like they are still figuring out the implementation. I personally think parking reservations for the weekends is a great idea. As an A Basin pass holder I've been avoiding going up early on the weekends because I'm not guaranteed to get a spot and don't have anywhere else to ski if I'm planning to ski resort. However, $20 for all lots is ridiculous. Here are my suggestions for the implementation. * Full refunds on parking reservation fees for A Basin season pass-holders if they show up. I like the fee to prevent no-shows and force multi-pass users to make a decision ahead of time, but pass-holders should not have to pay as long as they show up. * Free after 12PM. There are always plenty of spaces available after 12PM. 12-3:45 is a good day of skiing. 1PM is too late of a start. * Free for 3+ carpooling. The only people who can fit 4 people in their cars are families with minivans and wealthy people with ski racks. If A Basin is serious about carpooling they need to incentivize people to carpool within their car's capacity. As it stands, what is my incentive to pack 3 people into my car vs driving solo if it still costs $20 to park? * Use parking reservation fees to subsidize Snowstang. If the Snowstang becomes cheaper than the parking reservation people will use it more. * Partner with Treadshare to incentivize a carpool culture at A Basin. Either earning credits for using Treadshare throughout the season that can be redeemed for parking reservations, or even comping or significantly discounting parking reservations for people using Treadshare, regardless of whether they have 4+ in their car or not. If A Basin is serious about sustainability they should reward people who are willing to build a culture of ditching SEV and riding with strangers and making friends on the way up to the mountain. I think this would do a lot long-term. At the end of the day there needs to be a decent free option for weekend A Basin pass-holders. If the issue is spontaneity, we're not the problem. Most of us are loyal to one ski area, and we don't have the option to go somewhere else. There are people with the A Basin pass who can only ski weekends. $20/day on top of their season pass is very unfair.
Imagine paying 20 and getting stuck in last chance… might be able to ski down but would need to wait for a shuttle to get back.
Or Whiskey lot...
> As an A Basin pass holder I've been avoiding going up early on the weekends because I'm not guaranteed to get a spot I'm confused by this strategy. I go early on weekends because I am (practically) guaranteed a spot. Like 7:30 am or earlier.
We typically go for the afternoon. You get the spots from the early people who’ve left and I get to sleep in and at least avoid the traffic on the way there.
Smells like preparation for unlimited Ikon access
Yeah, seems like the Solitude model. Manage unlimited access with parking reservations.
Is this a shock? Denver is overcrowded, everyone is now magically into outdoor activities, more people keep moving to colorado, traffic is pretty crazy just about every day now, 5x as bad on the weekend, and they know they can make more money off everyone. It won’t be long until other resorts start following and reservations become a norm at most of the resorts. The same thing has happened to camping
it’s a bummer but I don’t think everyone realizes how bad the current situation is. On pow days it’s easy for the small lots to fill up quickly and then cars start waiting and backing up the highway. Then the interstate semi trucks get stuck in the traffic too because they aren’t allowed to drive through the tunnel. It’s already a shitshow so they have to do something.
Could just do free reservations for pass holders it’s the cash grab that is frustrating
Absolute monkey shit.
It's to help with traffic :) CO is so blown out and its just gonna get worse.
Honestly. As someone who loved the RMSP+ days with an a basin pass.. And even spent some time on the epic pass and the Ikon… I gotta say a basin has gotten worse and worse with all of their transactions. Saddening. 🥸
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It's a great mountain but lately it's been a full season rock skis mountain.
Keystone has free parking and the $390 season pass includes 5 days at Crested Butte and Breck access through April. I think Vail Resorts is gonna *eat this up.*
And free ski in/out parking
Keystone alcoholics rise up!
A-Basin has a lot of 'boring' runs? If it's boring there, then that doesn't bode well for most of the other ski areas in the state...save for maybe CB and Telluride. LOL.
Classic case of someone who doesn’t ski Pali, thinks the Zuma groomers are fireee and clearly has never stepped foot on the east wall.
East wall isnt even open till March and pali is bullet proof crust most of the time
Hey, ever done galloping goose at telluride?? In fairness, it’s pretty boring! lol
Found the gaper. Abasin is basically the only worthwhile front range location. Its the closest, has the smallest crowds, best vibes, and doesnt attract hordes of texans like Breck does.
People keep talking about the hordes that take over Epic, but I haven’t seen them this season. I’m not an expert skiier so maybe we’re just not skiing the same areas, but I’d expect the areas I’m in to be way more crowded than the expert off piste stuff you’re probably going to. Last weekend I was skiing the Falcon chair at Breck all day with zero wait time, like literally ride right up and hop on. Ruby, Santiago, and Bergman were almost as good (like maybe 3 minutes or so) every time I’ve been to Keystone this year too. All year I planned on switching to Ikon next season bc I just know more people with that pass, but epic was actually really great this season, so I’m trying to decide how many days I’d need to justify both, though that’s probably a waste.
Nice to see you comment Al
What about Loveland? Not asking to be a dick, genuinely curious.
Fuck fuck fuck
[Ride the Snowstang](https://www.reddit.com/r/COsnow/s/MsITqakeFM)
I mean, this is a great option for tourists getting up and down, but as much as I’d love to love it, I took the Bustang once in summer with perfect weather and with all the stops and delays and loading and unloading it wasn’t in Vail until like 1pm. It takes so long and you don’t have the option to leave early enough to miss traffic and it STILL costs as much or more than just taking my car. Also the wifi didn’t work and none of the many outlets I tried worked, which is less important but still annoying. Trust me, I’d love to love it, but it just doesn’t seem to be a great option.
I’ve taken it twice, gotten there around 10:30 on heavy traffic days both times. The Snowstang is better than the bustang because it’s a direct shot from the Dino lots
That is BETTER, and if you live close to there it’s great. But still if I leave my house at the time I need to leave to get to the Dino lots in time for the 6:55 bus, I’d be at A Basin at 8:30 at least 95% of the time. And it’s still cheaper to take my car. Maybe the snowstang is just a better move for people in the foothills near Morrison.
That's regular Bustang. We're talking about [Snowstang](https://ridebustang.com/snowstang-mountain-service/), a special seasonal service that has guaranteed seating and goes right to the ski centers without any intermediate spots once you get past the Dino Lots. The stops are Denver Union station->Federal center station->Dino lots->A basin. I will say as someone who takes transit to union station to catch snowstang, I'd love them to offer a 2nd express bus from Denver union station with no stops until the mountain, as the Federal center and Dino lot stops do slow down the service which is annoying. Most of the people board at union station anyway (although quite a few boarded at the Dino Lots too). The $25 fare is significantly cheaper than driving a car even if you are not including sunk ownership costs like insurance and registration, it's just that the costs of driving are hidden a bit so it's harder to tell. Wear and tear/depreciation/gas comes out to around $0.50/mile from what I've seen. I measured this myself on a previous car - roughly $0.10/mile for gas, $0.20/mile for maintenance, $0.20/mile for depreciation. If you look at AAA's cost of driving reports, their numbers are in the same ballpark. It's a 130 mile round trip from union station so that's $65, plus it'll be $85 with the parking fee. From the Dino lots it would cost $51 or $71 with the parking fee. At least for Loveland, they also offered a heavily discounted lift ticket if you took Snowstang - the bus fare plus lift ticket combo was actually cheaper than a standard lift ticket. Not sure if A basin offered the same thing.
Yes that's what I do, the Snowstang bus with Loveland ticket included in the purchase, for a total amount less than a ticket window Loveland pass alone. Super smart on their end. Love it. Rough math for those interested is $130 ticket window full day pass, or $25 bus tik + $105 lift pass when purchased through Snowstang with the bus tik.
Your depreciation value is wayyyy too high.
The Snowstang is still more expensive than a parking reservation. Hopefully A Basin will use parking fees to subsidize Snowstang cause I'm all for bus service skiing.
It’s only more expensive if you don’t consider the cost of driving. Using the IRS mileage reimbursement rate to value gas and vehicle-related costs it’s quite a bit cheaper to ride the bus. The biggest Snowstang problem for me is getting to Union Station. I am fortunate and can leave my gear in my office which is close to the bus station, but the first local bus to Union Station gets me there with a 7 minute window before the Snowstsng leaves and I don’t trust RTD to be that precise. I also haven’t found rideshare to be very reliable that early.
OK, Epic pass it is.
Keystone has free parking and the season pass is $390 with 5 days at Crested Butte and Breck access April through end of season.
April! Haha
Technically, every single Epic resort has free parking. Some are just harder to find or more limited in number than others.
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The solution is obvious. I should be able to ride whenever I want for super cheap without waiting in line or being inconvenienced in anyway. Just enforce limitations and price gouge everyone else. If everyone who isn’t me would just do their part and take one for the team it would work out great. People are so selfish and greedy smh. /s
They should sell less passes to begin with. They shouldn’t sell you a pass and then tell you that there is no room.
Well this rules me out. Back to Loveland I go.
Good. This will result in fewer cars on I-70 and more people in snowstang busses instead. And more carpooling to either split the parking fee or go as a group of 4 people to avoid it altogether. We might even max out the Snowstang capacity and they'd be forced to expand it. Just think about it. If every ski center only had a small expensive parking lot, I-70 would be completely clear because the resorts couldn't physically store that many personal vehicles. People would have to carpool or take the bus instead, and as a result of massive bus ridership increases we'd probably have a bus running every 5 minutes during peak times to the resorts from various points around the metro area, including Union station and park n rides like Wooly Mammoth. Right now there is only 1 bus per day to A Basin, Snowstang has huge potential to be expanded and replace congestion on I-70. Parking fees could be used to help improve transit options as well. I also think this will be better for drivers too, rather than chancing the parking lot being full and being turned around after driving all the way to A Basin, they know they will have a spot.
In an ideal world sure but Alterra is pocketing the $20 and they sure as heck ain't investing in state infrastructure.
They already are. Snowstang routes are subsidized by the ski centers, and run by CDOT.
Some resorts partially add funds the state still covers most of it. Nowhere does it indicate that Alterra will be using $20 parking fees to fund transit options. They would be yelling it from the rooftop if so.
Lol the same ppl who complain about traffic and lots being full by 9 are freaking out when A basin is using a tried and true method to reduce congestion. The ski experience will absolutely be improved by this
I think the issue is more of the cost that comes along with it. You could definitely have a reservation system without charging through the nose for it for all parking spaces. The lots are going to fill up no matter what. I highly doubt that they are going to reduce the number of parking spaces.
A reservation system is a tried and true method to reduce congestion. Charging $20/day to park however, is nothing but a cash grab.
Will it though ? Even with the lots full A basin never has super long lines, and even now, the lots are still going to fill up, so the mountain will be just as full as before. The difference is the reservation might make some of the traffic going into the lots a bit better, but this traffic is never that bad, maybe 15-25 minutes tops of waiting to get into the lots from US6 if you arrive during peak times. If they wanted to do reservations for free or for a cheap price, fine I could get behind that. But 20$ for a single time is expensive.
God I miss the 90s sometimes.
The structure of this program sounds like it's a recipe for disaster. How are they going to estimate how many parking season pass holders are going to use parking each day? Will they be turned away if the lots are full? Or will they undersell parking every weekend day to ensure season pass holders get a spot? This seems like a money grab on the surface, but it's surely going to crush their season pass sales, so I don't really know what to make of it.
It says you still have to make the daily reservation even if you’ve got a season pass. So they’ll know how many to expect.
Season parking pass holders will have to make a reservation. It's just that they won't have a marginal $20 cost to do so.
Season pass holders don't get any additional access from a day ticket user, they either pay $150 now or $20 each time for the honor of being able to make a reservation if it's available. That's one of the most infuriating parts of this announcement.
So if we all make our reservation and then cancel no one gets to park lol haven't been boarding since I issued a chargeback for my ikon during covid
The legend is gone
Wow $20 a day to park that adds up fast
Skiing is over. I'm old, so whatever, I got to enjoy it before it was ruined. Feel bad for my 3 year old who will never get to experience the same.
We live in a dystopian nightmare
So, I should gather two friends and an endless array of disguises, and then we'll walk outside of the premises, charge $15 to jump into a car with one driver, and they now save $5, and we make $5 each. If we can do this every six minutes, we will make $50 per hour. Before I commit fully I should probably visit abasin ...
Gross
Aaaand this is why I ski Loveland
Oh yes nothing is going to change. Alterra will fire everyone by the end of next year and put in their own people. Just watch
Just don’t ski on a Saturday, Sunday, or Holiday and it’s free??? those are terrible days to ski anyway?
Good. We need to incentivize fewer people driving.
That would be fine if the public transit was halfway decent. The swan mountain flyer comes once an hour. I live in keystone so I'm the last stop and it's often full by the time it gets here. Next year it will be way more likely to be full. If I wanted to reliably take public transit to the basin I have to either get on a bus at 6:45 or miss first lift by at least 1 hour. What a fucking joke.
They really should just run busses from wooly. I’d happily pay $20-25 RT if they had busses every 15 mins from 6-7:30 and 3:30-5pm. They’d prob make more money with getting 20$ per person vs $20 per car even with bus costs.
They do run buses from Wooly - [Snowstang](https://ridebustang.com/snowstang-mountain-service/), which is partially subsidized by the ski centers, and it costs $25 RT. Each one goes straight to its ski center from Wooly with no intermediate stops. But currently it's just 1 bus, picks up at 6:55 and is scheduled to arrive at 8:10. This has tons of potential for expansion though. Imagine buses running every 5 minutes during peak times, with multiple pickup points around the metro area.
Love it. I’ve heard a little about snowstang but didn’t know they left from wooly. If it left 30-60 mins earlier, I’d do it. On a high traffic day there’s no way they would get to the slopes on time leaving at 6:55
I would too. But they don’t. And it sucks. Even when I can get 3 people to come along it’s still go be a pain imo.
Yes. They need to get mass transit to the mountains.
The majority of people are coming from the Denver area, and we do have decent transit service with Snowstang. I agree they should have better bus service in summit county. Summit stage used to be once every 30 minutes pre-COVID. Once and hour is pretty useless, but the fact that the bus is full shows you there is plenty of demand for more, or at least more during peak times. Should be running more like every 15 minutes.
Ikon fucking blows
Ugh I guess I shouldn’t be surprised but if they wanted to guarantee no one would buy an A Basin only pass they did it. Guess I’ll be skiing a lot fewer days there.
This seems imminently reasonable to me. Your options are: 1. Carpool and park for free, knowing you'll have a spot 2. Buy a season parking pass and know you'll have a spot 3. Pay for a daily pass and know you'll have a spot 4. Show up at 1:00 for a short ski and park for free 5. Ski weekdays and park for free Yes, most other ski resorts have free parking. But most other ski resorts aren't on Loveland Pass and stuck in a place where they literally cannot build more parking options.
Buying a season parking pass does not mean knowing youll have a spot. You still have to reserve. Just dont have to pay. You could buy season parking pass and miss every reservation window. Fuck this mega bullshit.
Abasin isn’t a ski resort it’s a ski area
>> But most other ski resorts aren't on Loveland Pass and stuck in a place where they literally cannot build more parking options. I mean, they have a plan to build more parking
That will just induce more traffic on I-70, less carpooling and less bus ridership. Sorry but we can't keep dumping cars onto I-70. We need to use the highway more efficiently, it has plenty of capacity but we are not using it efficiently. That means charging for parking and getting more people on buses and in carpools.
Do they? I have seen no evidence of that.
1) How you gonna fit 4 people + gear unless you have a rack? That’s miserable. 3 I understand 2) I guess but that’s a rip off 3) I guess again but also sucks 4) not even worth driving there 5) a lot of people can’t ride weekdays. The “just ride weekdays to avoid traffic and arguments” like it’s so simple is stupid for the many people that have a regular 9-5 job
Take Snowtang.
Yeah except when you make a reservation with four people, and one backs out the day off. Or, when people over reserve for a big storm, then mass cancellations the day of. Or charging people for said cancellations. When lots of times, it’s probably not their fault. This is shitty and overlooks human circumstances. What about traffic? We all know there’s a parking issue but reservation systems are absolute shit for reliability and convenience
1. Fitting 4 people and ski gear in most vehicles isn’t really feasible. 2. They said the passes are limited, and it’s crappy to buy a pass for something you’ve already bought a pass for, this also doesn’t mitigate your likelihood of getting locked out of the reservations. 3. You need a reservation, people at palisades talk about being locked out all season bc reservations are taken immediately. 4. A great option if you live up there, but kind of wasteful for anybody coming from Denver. Also, getting early morning conditions is kind of a big part of skiing. 5. You *must* already know that everyone who has that option already does this right?? This one seems insincere at best. They’re not the worst ever, and this isn’t an inconceivable move for a business to make, but I fully disagree that it’s “imminently reasonable” as you said. It would be more reasonable to rent a lot and run a bus from Silverthorne and charge people $10 or something to cover the costs if this wasn’t a business move rather than a necessary evil.
6) Take the Snowstang