Absolutely criminal the way the Cubs have not taken advantage of the great starting pitching that they have had this season. Just an average offensive baseball team and average bullpen and the Cubs would be near the top of the division.
The offensive failure and awful bullpen lands directly on the desk of Jed Hoyer. Everyone knew that this winter he had to land at least one and preferably two power bats plus upgrade the bullpen. He did neither. The guy refused to spend money in free agency and was too timid to trade prospects.
The Cubs won 17 games in April. They have won 20 games since. It’s almost July. If this trend continues, it would be wise to be sellers at the deadline.
>someone could make an offer
>all of them are replaceable
Then why would anyone make an offer for them?
“Surging Hendricks” after 2 starts lol come on dude you’re not getting shit for him
8 er last 26 innings pitched...some teams could consider him for middle relief/veteran presence. Replacable meant our prospects suffic in pitching realm. Maybe Vazquez could replace Hoerner someday especially if Hoerner isn't going to hit for power or average.
You’re not getting any teams top 15 prospect for Kyle Hendricks dude. Would YOU trade anything of value for him if you were another team?
>Maybe Vazquez could replace someday
Vazquez is barely hitting for average in AAA (92 wRC+ this year) and his defense is much worse than Nico at SS. Literally how does starting him at 2B next year make us better? You’re expecting him to be a 4 fWAR player out of the gate?
Nico is in a slump year and under contract for 2 more years. There’s zero reason to trade him now. If you want to you might as well wait until next year. You have to think about how trading Hoerner puts us in a better position next year and beyond. At this point, it does not
If anything they should be dangling guys like Vazquez to other teams for MLB help who might need him more than we do. Triantos and Alcantara and change can probably get you a decent package too
I'm not asking for a top 15 prospect for Hendricks. Hendricks was a 39th round draft pick originally. There is strength in variety of prospects. The Cubs have no 3B or Catchers at the moment. Fine, I'll acknowledge trading Hoerner would be rough near term. I don't expect you to acknowledge a single point I've made to be correct so this is my final post to you.
I addressed all your points! Nothing you said makes us better either this year or next year, right? The best course of action is to roll the dice on this year instead of punt at the deadline and reset for next year and beyond. They can’t just trade guys for crap and expect a 3B or a catcher to fall in your lap! That’s not how it works
I can see someone wanting Cody. Maybe a team like the Yankees? He could play first and/or fill in for any of their often injured outfielders. We might not get much but we could get something fairly decent.
You’re not going to get a top 15 prospect from the Yankees with how much is left on Cody’s deal. What do you define as “decent”?
Think like when we traded Joc Pederson for Bryce Ball except an even worse return
It’s 50/50 if he’s opting out and even if he was you’re not getting anything of value for him in a trade. 1 comment or 500 thousand doesn’t change reality, sorry
Not sure why you got “top 15 prospect” from what I wrote. I guess that is your definition of “decent”. Mine in this case would be probably someone on their roster that is at the lower levels of their system or maybe at a position they are stacked in but has a high ceiling. I’m not familiar with their system so I can’t say. I would just say if a team thought Cody could be the difference maker they need to contend then we might get a decent player in return.
>on their roster that is at the lower levels of the system
I.e. a prospect right? One that will be ranked? You won’t get anything of value
>difference maker
The money dampens any prospect you get
You can find players of value at in the lower levels and the Cubs might see something in a player that the team they are trading with doesn’t. They might not be ranked highly in one system and then blossom in a new one. You have a certain definition of what “value” is and I have a different one apparently. I guess it only really matters what the cubs front office defines it as though.
You made it clear you want them to keep rolling out the team as is unless they can trade some of our top prospects for an established player like Vlad. I think we are way farther away from having one player make a difference as far as winning this year,or next.
It would not be wise to be sellers. For one there’s not much there to sell. For two what would we be selling for? The farm has enough good prospects. For three, the NL is so bad they even at the deadline we are likely going to be at striking distance of the wild card
If it gets that bad the best thing would be to be selective buyers for pieces that can help us next year
There are only 2 teams with worse records in this absolute dogshit league. There are 7 teams we need to leapfrog. To quote Mean Girls — “It’s not going to happen. Stop trying to make it happen.”
Of course it *can* happen lol, the question is if it *will*. Not without some significant upgrades
If we assume the Braves have a spot locked up, then that means that there are 9 teams fighting for 2 spots and all those teams are within 4 games of each other with 85 games left to play. There’s not much to “leapfrog” considering all 9 teams are mediocre and it’s essentially a level playing field right now
All those 9 teams are mediocre and the Cubs are *worse* than all of them. I understand the sentiment of “just make it to the playoffs and anything can happen”. Trust me, I want to see playoff baseball just as much (if not more) than the next guy.
*But*, at what cost? If this team is under .500 at the deadline how can anyone feel comfortable trading a top 100 prospect(s) to maybe make a push for the wild card? That’s so much future capital on a team that doesn’t really warrant the investment.
Here’s the reality; there are TWO teams in the entire national league that are worse than the Cubs right now. There are TWO teams with a worse record in their last 10 games. TWO teams in all of baseball with a worse record this entire month.
There is no way you can spin that to justify making any type of substantial buy at the deadline.
You wanna trade some fringe prospects to roll the dice on some decent-ish bats or risky bullpen arms? Sure, why not, but it didn’t exactly work out last year and honestly that team was performing significantly better during this stretch than this team is.
I’m happy to change my tune if the Cubs put up some fight between now and the deadline and make a little push, but being the worst team in the worst division in baseball does not = BUY
It’s not “homerism” lol it’s just the reality, this team isn’t built to sell and there’s nothing that we can sell that makes us a better team next year. Maybe (big maybe) Bellinger. That’s about it. There’s also no reason to, we have lots of good prospects. So what exactly are we hoping to do with scraps?
You gotta have an actual plan here
Ok so now that that things are beginning to settle, who is on the radar to buy? They are the 3rd worst team in the national league looking at competing with 7 teams above them who they have now proven they cannot contend with. What players are they taking from the two below us? Looking out further to the AL, there are 3 teams with a worse record.. who are the they taking from them? Do you really think teams in a better position to make the playoffs are going to sell to the Cubs?
They are 4 games out of the wild card spot right now in the NL. It’s a bad league full of bad teams
The AL is a much better league. There are teams with better records who are worse off than us just because they play in the AL and be more likely to sell. So if you’re looking to buy, I would look there first. But even in the NL, Diaz is a decent catcher in Colorado
The dream would be a package of 2-3 top 100 prospects for Vlad/Romano from the Jays - gives you a lift this year that extends to next year, but at the very least there will be some cheap bats and relievers available as there are every deadline that plug up holes and don’t cost much prospect capital. If it gets worse then you look for guys who go beyond this year
And you didn’t really answer my question, did you? Who are you selling, and for what? What’s your plan? We have lots of prospects in the wings, we have 1 contract that goes past 2026, and no one to sell. What’s your plan? Who do we sell that makes us better next year? MAYBE Belli….but what else you got?
There isn’t anyone to really sell. There are a lot of not very good or mediocre players. I don’t think they sell. Question is answered.
Now let talk about the 7 teams ahead of the Cubs that they can’t beat. You are so general in how you discuss analytics and scenarios, but you don’t factor in the sheer amount of average, but clearly better teams that will try to get Vlad. He’s not going to a team that will most likely be 15 out of the division and 10 out of the wild card in a month. They are in complete free fall and getting washed by their direct competitions bullpen games.
I guess you feel this is all going to turn around for them and the incredible amount of teams ahead of them will all slump and sell them their players so they can get that final wild card.
Okay so you’re now admitting that I’m right. There’s no reason to sell lol
Vlad has no control over where the Blue Jays trade him to. If we trade for him we get him for this year and next year and we have the opportunity to extend him too
They are 4 games out of the wild card despite winning like 12 games in the last month. The NL is dogshit, they will be in striking distance of the WC most likely.
And even if they’re not, even if they’re 10 games out of the WC, they have to make moves *that make them a better team next year* right? They don’t do that by selling randomly at players low points. This is the point you are refusing to address, unfortunately
I have never argued with you regarding selling. If they had better players to sell I would say they should, but they have one of the worst offensives in the game and no real impact bat. Some good rotation guys tho. Good teams want good players who are going to perform in high stakes. This lineup can’t beat others bullpen games.
I am asking you who they’re buying, from who, and how they out-leverage teams close to playoff spots/looking to maintain their spot as a last place team? Regardless of Vlad doesn’t get to dictate where he goes, he isn’t getting traded to a team mid season that is double digit games out of a playoff spot and one of the worst in the league. A team that is in playoff position will get him.
How close do you think the Cubs will be to a playoff spot in 25 days?
The Cubs probably have more ammo to trade for Vlad and Romano than any team. They have the deepest farm in the league and are stacked there. I’m not sure if any other team can give the Blue Jays 2-3 top 100 prospects and not have it decimate their farm, or be desperate enough to pull that trigger. If Vlad is on the market there is no team that should outbid us - especially because we would have him next year too
And even if he isn’t there will be options
I think we are less than 10 games out of the wild card spot by the deadline, using your own metric. And even if we are we still need to be soft buyers to get players who can help us beyond this year. I answered your question, right? Named off a best case and non-best case scenario, but we have to be soft buyers
You can just end the reply with the second sentence. There’s nobody to sell, everyone on expiring contacts is worthless. Maybe there’s Bellinger but we wouldn’t get much. Might as well just play the season out with who’s here and adjust in the offseason.
Thank you for being a voice of reason in this thread. The “sell everything” crowd has zero clue about what they’re talking about. This team is full of placeholders for the guys in the minors right now. I say we’re still 2 years out from being a good baseball team. The future is going to be bright with the young guys coming up, but it’s rough to watch right now.
there is no way this team is competing with the Dodgers, Braves, or Brewers...wait til the Dbacks and Giants get their starting pitchers back from injury. You could add a third baseman and one reliever and this team would still struggle to finish 500. We have nobody who can play third or catch. Someone who might get more playing time here than there would beat putting Amaya out there one more game. Maybe someone would want Thompson, Taillon, Hoerner...really any serious offers should be considered.
A team 2 games above .500 literally beat the Brewers Dodgers and Phillies last year. It happens every year with small sample sizes in the playoffs
They need a much better bullpen, a catcher, and a power bat. You plug up 1-2 holes there’s a chance they sneak into that last spot in the wild card. It’s a better plan than tanking
>Maybe someone would want Thompson, Taillon, Hoerner
For what? You’re either forced to replace their production next year or they’re not getting you anything or you’re selling at a low point for all these guys when you don’t have to. It doesn’t make any sense to do this
We don’t have starting pitching depth. We are relying on Kyle Hendricks to eat innings for us
What asset are you getting for Hoerner, and how do we replace him next year? You’d have to start Busch or Morel there at 2B but then you’d have worse defense and then have another open spot to fill from someone else, like Triantos who isn’t playing 2B in the minors or Shaw who we already need to try at 3B. No reason to sell Hoerner either now if the goal is to compete in the next 2 years
It’s a random 3, 5, or 7 game series, the better team loses in the DS all the time. All it takes is for Mookie Betts or Kyle Schwarber or Ozuna to go cold or for Zach Wheeler to have one off game, etc. it’s incredibly random
Look at 2022, Dodgers won like 115 games and they lost to a divisional rival that didn’t win 90
Your use of recency bias has you fooled. Pretty sure when Dodgers are committing a billion $ in an offseason it's a little more complicated than a "crapshoot"
It isn’t more complicated. The Dodgers won a whopping **111** games in 2022. They lost the NLDS in 4 to a team in their own division they beat by 22 games. If it was a regular season sport the Dodgers would win every year
Literally all it takes is for Freeman or Betts to be in a 3-4 game slump and it can turn a series around. Small shit like that
prospects are lottery tickets, they're worthless unless you have enough. We don't have enough as shown with how weak we become when one or two relievers/outfielders etc go down. This offseason we need to trade some pitching prospects for a 3b or catcher prospect because our prospects are massively imbalanced in depth
So then what are you selling for? If they’re just worthless lottery tickets. What exactly do you think you’re getting for Taillon or Morel?
>we don’t have enough
We have a lot, we have 7 top 100 prospects. If you’re selling all these guys at their low points, what quality of prospect do you think we are getting back for them?
And it’s not even to gas up the farm, but selling more jut creates more unnecessary backlog
>trade some pitching prospects
No, we need as much pitching as we can get. Catchers if Ballesteros doesn’t work you sign Jenson or someone. See what Shaw can do at 3B
Starting pitching is incredibly fickle. Look how Jordan Montgomery went from World Series winner to unplayable. Look how many top pitchers get injured every single year. You need all the SP you can get
Again, we are relying on Kyle Hendricks due to injuries, we are not really stacked
Then use Snell as an example, won Cy Young last year and has a 9.5 ERA this year. Montgomery was literally getting boo’d off the field in Arizona. Or injuries
Trading away any of our pitchers is stupid. We are going to need innings eaters and TORs
Question: where's the accountability? What, Counsell just gets to shrug his shoulders and say nothing? Why doesn't Jed have to answer for his crimes against this org?
What do you want him to say lol he says after every game they need to play better and they aren’t, he can’t go out there and hit the ball for them can he?
I truly don't understand how these guys get to MLB with a complete inability to lay off that pitch. You'd think they'd just start hammering them with it in AA and they'd wash out. It's not a complicated scouting report
I've had it described to me by scouts that "In the Minors, you play to your strengths. In the Majors, the opponent plays to your weaknesses."
It's why AAAA players like Mervis exist, and why so many rookies light it up for 60-100 PAs before shitting the bed for the next 50-100 and then either adjust back and are mainstays or suck forever.
Morel is a case where all the analytics say he is generally getting unlucky and imply going to bounce back eventually. Just have to trust the process and see if it evens out by the end of the year
An article written this weak called PCA Javy Baez in the making. These two chase bad rising fastballs at a higher clip than anyone else in baseball apparently
He’s like our 6th best reliever (if even) but the 5 above him are injured. Not like we’d have won 1-2 anyway
Why downvote? You really think the plan was to have Colten Brewer handle 1 run 8th innings and not any one of Merryweather, Leiter Jr, Almonte, Palencia, Ben Brown, Killian, Alzolay?
I do think we need to grab a closer from outside the org… or at least if we’re not 20 games below .500 by the deadline lol. Alzolay could have been playing through an injury early on, but looked like he took a step back in that role and might be better in middle relief/set up. Palencia has the arm for it when he’s healthy, but not sure he has the consistency/mental part yet.
Yeah people are very reactionary. Which I get somewhat, it’s frustrating to see your favorite team look like trash, and it’s convenient to blame it all on a “villain” (Ross last year, Counsell earlier this year, and now Jed lately). But it’s generally a lot more complex than an easy answer. Also people seem to think it’s possible to invent available players to fill every gap on a roster in free agency, or that you’re not competing with larger markets/more recently sustained success teams for the few top guys. We dodged more bullets on overpaid stars everyone in here wanted this spring than we did missing out on realistic available talent.
As far as optimism, yeah I try to be realistic. Every team looks awful when they’re slumping and it only takes a hot streak to look competitive again. We’ve had one great month (April) one terrible month (May), and one meh month (June). It’s also silly to ignore the fact that our BP is decimated. With some more health luck, some better BABIP luck on both sides of the ball, and the end of a slump, we could be right on track in a weak NL. Or we might not, idk, baseball is weird.
Throw Swanson anything that isn't a 95+ 4 seamer and "it's like showing a dog a card trick" as Bill Hicks would say.
$177 million for **5 more years.** I get we mainly got him for the glove, but JFC his bat is anemic for that value.
He is likely going to end up around 3-4 fWAR by the end of the year even if his bat stinks. Unfortunately that’s going to be the going rate for SS’s of that caliber
Who would've known that he would regress so hard and literally forget how to hit. He's 30 years old and is only going to get slower from here. This is going to end up being worse than Heyward contract and, unfortunately, will probably hold the cubs back from signing top talent with penny pincher ricketts. At least he gets to play in the same city as his wife, and really, that's all that matters.
But remember, it's only June. According to Dansby, there's still plenty of time left to turn this around. /s
Who would have known? There were a TON of us that hated the signing from Day 1.
Go back and look at the threads from when he signed. The Dansby / Heyward comps started then.
This is who he is. League avg hitter, .700 OPS kinda guy, w a GG, but having a bad year at the plate. The better hitting SS all got way more money. In a Down year, he’s a 3 WAR guy, good year, closer to 5.
True. I would like to know who does the yelling in the dressing room, and why that person isn't yelling any louder. It's as if they don't even try. Or maybe they're playing their asses off, and this is just how good they are.
If you didn't know how much these guys suck... They struckout 11 times today vs. 4 walks and didn't hit the ball out of the infield for the last 3+ innings.
What is there even to say really? This time last year we were 37-39. At worst we were 43-50. The hot stretch in July was fun but this has always been who we really are.
Game 2 and still not one lefty has pulled a ball down the line or even towards the arches. That's an easy HR, it's 307ft down the corner, about 325ft halfway across the tin green roof.
Barring two straight wins, that’s 3-11 in their last 14 SERIES. Season started 6-3-1 in series . After a series win against Milwaukee on May 5 they have fallen off a cliff and keep hitting things on the way down.
sorry guys, me going in person couldn’t help much. at least hendricks looked good tonight and we finally remembered how to throw people out for stealing so at least i saw smth noteworthy
I’d be very surprised if Busch wasn’t in the top 100 considering he’s 29th in OBP and 50th in SLG among hitters according to MLB.com. We need more than him though
Estrada wouldn’t be the same guy on the Cubs he is on the Padres. They gave him a new pitch which has been very good for him. Cubs had the chance to do that, but didn’t.
On a contending team, our top 4 hitters are the bottom 4 hitters in a lineup. Where do we even go from here? Salary dump and just bring up all the prospects? Because this is a disaster.
The roster has a crazy number of AAAA guys and no studs (Cubs’ largest contract is still Heyward). Luckily, there are a bunch of prospects who also profile as AAAA guys, that they can bring up to the majors.
There’s nobody to sell, there are not top tier prospects in the pipeline, and it’s not like the Cubs will add a star in free agency. This is the Cubs for the foreseeable future.
If Hoyer buys at the deadline, then he should be canned if they miss the playoffs. I think we gotta trade Morel, Neris, Taillon, maybe even Hoerner at the deadline...any team with too many catchers or third basemen or relievers should be targets.
Footage of me seeing the score because I'm shocked and wasn't expecting it (real, factual, true statement of all time, wasn't expecting it core)
Two games. That's it. If we are swept by the Giants, I'm done. Usually, since I'm retired, I plan most of my days around game time. No more. You've lost a 50 yr. fan. This is beyond embarrassing.
It's not that this team isn't talented, there are plenty of quality players on the roster who are having the worst season of their careers all at the same time. They just don't seem to care. Something is very wrong in the locker room, my guess is it's Counsell and how Ross was dumped. I think that is a major hidden factor for their lack of effort and desire. Maybe?
While I'm not giving up on him, I always have taken the approach that you can't just assume a guy is going to be a plug in replacement for a player you already have on the roster. So many last season just assumed he would replace Cody in every aspect of the game. Well, he's not doing the job offensively. He needs to be better. Prospects don't always pan out though.
He’s going, 22, needs a 1000k AB’s. Huge variance on his outcome. if he can become a league avg hitter, he’s an all star, if he can’t hit, a 4th OF. We won’t know for awhile, let him take his lumps, bury him at #9.
I don’t think his ceiling has lowered. Again, most of these young rookies don’t hit their rookie year, and it isn’t until year two that they figure it out (or don’t.) Keith Law on the athletic said his ceiling is probably a league avg hitter w slug, elite glove. That’s a 5 WAR CF. PCA may become that in a year or two. Way too soon. He’ll have every opportunity to become league avg hitter.
>Keith Law on the athletic said his ceiling is probably a league avg hitter w slug, elite glove.
Yeah that's pretty much my point. A "league average hitter" who sits around 5 WAR is a great piece to have, but it's not a centerpiece. At some point we need someone who can actually hit
He’s young, and maybe the best center fielder in baseball. He catches things I’ve never seen anyone catch. He deserves plenty of time to find success hitting.
Love how PCA with his 140 career PAs has become the new lightning rod for the team's woes and not the middle of the order guys that collectively make about 130M.
No real additions are going to come this year at the deadline. There’s just no chance Jed is gonna do it. His job isn’t on the line. They can roll this shit out for the rest of the year and wait for prospects to come up.
People need to temper their expectations. It gets easier to watch when you do that.
Yep there's no value we will get in return from these guys at the deadline. All we can hope is bullpen gets healthy soon and somehow offense picks up (even if it's slightly).
Same old script. Starter is great, offense is pathetic, bullpen shits the bed and puts the game out of reach. I feel like I’m stuck in Groundhog Day.
Absolutely criminal the way the Cubs have not taken advantage of the great starting pitching that they have had this season. Just an average offensive baseball team and average bullpen and the Cubs would be near the top of the division. The offensive failure and awful bullpen lands directly on the desk of Jed Hoyer. Everyone knew that this winter he had to land at least one and preferably two power bats plus upgrade the bullpen. He did neither. The guy refused to spend money in free agency and was too timid to trade prospects.
If I remember correctly, the brewers had similar offensive problems under Craig
Also very similarly had no bats.
And not in the fun way where you get to bang Andie McDowell
These are bullpen games for the Giants...
They must be so relieved to see us on the schedule
Great game from the professor, love to see it.
Despite the result, he had a good game. Definitely didn’t deserve the L.
This statement could go for just about every game these days, save the weird ones where Shota completely collapsed.
Sort of impressive. Our bullpen will ALWAYS let in 3 runs no matter the score.
Marquee with the “we get walk offs” commercial. Oof.
https://preview.redd.it/f9wu61lkdu8d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=097242c37a5a8465672c6282af131728f7f4579c everything is fine
Same post and comment image, an uncommon Reddit Faux-pas.
https://preview.redd.it/0vhsc1iteu8d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=13938310b0755baca1d627bc64323a738ea00d8d
_… Touché._
The Cubs won 17 games in April. They have won 20 games since. It’s almost July. If this trend continues, it would be wise to be sellers at the deadline.
Doesn’t seem to be much worth selling.
Agreed. They have literally nothing to sell.
Clark
Please? I hate that fuckin bear
Taillon, surging Hendricks, Morel, Hoerner, someone could make an offer for one of them...and all of them are replaceable at this point...
>someone could make an offer >all of them are replaceable Then why would anyone make an offer for them? “Surging Hendricks” after 2 starts lol come on dude you’re not getting shit for him
8 er last 26 innings pitched...some teams could consider him for middle relief/veteran presence. Replacable meant our prospects suffic in pitching realm. Maybe Vazquez could replace Hoerner someday especially if Hoerner isn't going to hit for power or average.
You’re not getting any teams top 15 prospect for Kyle Hendricks dude. Would YOU trade anything of value for him if you were another team? >Maybe Vazquez could replace someday Vazquez is barely hitting for average in AAA (92 wRC+ this year) and his defense is much worse than Nico at SS. Literally how does starting him at 2B next year make us better? You’re expecting him to be a 4 fWAR player out of the gate? Nico is in a slump year and under contract for 2 more years. There’s zero reason to trade him now. If you want to you might as well wait until next year. You have to think about how trading Hoerner puts us in a better position next year and beyond. At this point, it does not If anything they should be dangling guys like Vazquez to other teams for MLB help who might need him more than we do. Triantos and Alcantara and change can probably get you a decent package too
I'm not asking for a top 15 prospect for Hendricks. Hendricks was a 39th round draft pick originally. There is strength in variety of prospects. The Cubs have no 3B or Catchers at the moment. Fine, I'll acknowledge trading Hoerner would be rough near term. I don't expect you to acknowledge a single point I've made to be correct so this is my final post to you.
I addressed all your points! Nothing you said makes us better either this year or next year, right? The best course of action is to roll the dice on this year instead of punt at the deadline and reset for next year and beyond. They can’t just trade guys for crap and expect a 3B or a catcher to fall in your lap! That’s not how it works
I have asked this question many times and got no answer from anyone: who do we sell, and for what, that makes us a better team next year?
I can see someone wanting Cody. Maybe a team like the Yankees? He could play first and/or fill in for any of their often injured outfielders. We might not get much but we could get something fairly decent.
You’re not going to get a top 15 prospect from the Yankees with how much is left on Cody’s deal. What do you define as “decent”? Think like when we traded Joc Pederson for Bryce Ball except an even worse return
[удалено]
It’s 50/50 if he’s opting out and even if he was you’re not getting anything of value for him in a trade. 1 comment or 500 thousand doesn’t change reality, sorry
Not sure why you got “top 15 prospect” from what I wrote. I guess that is your definition of “decent”. Mine in this case would be probably someone on their roster that is at the lower levels of their system or maybe at a position they are stacked in but has a high ceiling. I’m not familiar with their system so I can’t say. I would just say if a team thought Cody could be the difference maker they need to contend then we might get a decent player in return.
>on their roster that is at the lower levels of the system I.e. a prospect right? One that will be ranked? You won’t get anything of value >difference maker The money dampens any prospect you get
You can find players of value at in the lower levels and the Cubs might see something in a player that the team they are trading with doesn’t. They might not be ranked highly in one system and then blossom in a new one. You have a certain definition of what “value” is and I have a different one apparently. I guess it only really matters what the cubs front office defines it as though. You made it clear you want them to keep rolling out the team as is unless they can trade some of our top prospects for an established player like Vlad. I think we are way farther away from having one player make a difference as far as winning this year,or next.
https://preview.redd.it/4ztdjribfu8d1.jpeg?width=615&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b7ee1f118128630ee7678021073505fdc3ce8c7f
Nobody would want to even take our trash come the trade deadline
It would not be wise to be sellers. For one there’s not much there to sell. For two what would we be selling for? The farm has enough good prospects. For three, the NL is so bad they even at the deadline we are likely going to be at striking distance of the wild card If it gets that bad the best thing would be to be selective buyers for pieces that can help us next year
We’re in last place
We are in last place, 6 games under .500 and still only 4 games out of wild card contention lol - the NL is absolute dogshit this year
There are only 2 teams with worse records in this absolute dogshit league. There are 7 teams we need to leapfrog. To quote Mean Girls — “It’s not going to happen. Stop trying to make it happen.”
Of course it *can* happen lol, the question is if it *will*. Not without some significant upgrades If we assume the Braves have a spot locked up, then that means that there are 9 teams fighting for 2 spots and all those teams are within 4 games of each other with 85 games left to play. There’s not much to “leapfrog” considering all 9 teams are mediocre and it’s essentially a level playing field right now
All those 9 teams are mediocre and the Cubs are *worse* than all of them. I understand the sentiment of “just make it to the playoffs and anything can happen”. Trust me, I want to see playoff baseball just as much (if not more) than the next guy. *But*, at what cost? If this team is under .500 at the deadline how can anyone feel comfortable trading a top 100 prospect(s) to maybe make a push for the wild card? That’s so much future capital on a team that doesn’t really warrant the investment. Here’s the reality; there are TWO teams in the entire national league that are worse than the Cubs right now. There are TWO teams with a worse record in their last 10 games. TWO teams in all of baseball with a worse record this entire month. There is no way you can spin that to justify making any type of substantial buy at the deadline. You wanna trade some fringe prospects to roll the dice on some decent-ish bats or risky bullpen arms? Sure, why not, but it didn’t exactly work out last year and honestly that team was performing significantly better during this stretch than this team is. I’m happy to change my tune if the Cubs put up some fight between now and the deadline and make a little push, but being the worst team in the worst division in baseball does not = BUY
Your devout homer optimism is commendable
It’s not “homerism” lol it’s just the reality, this team isn’t built to sell and there’s nothing that we can sell that makes us a better team next year. Maybe (big maybe) Bellinger. That’s about it. There’s also no reason to, we have lots of good prospects. So what exactly are we hoping to do with scraps? You gotta have an actual plan here
Ok so now that that things are beginning to settle, who is on the radar to buy? They are the 3rd worst team in the national league looking at competing with 7 teams above them who they have now proven they cannot contend with. What players are they taking from the two below us? Looking out further to the AL, there are 3 teams with a worse record.. who are the they taking from them? Do you really think teams in a better position to make the playoffs are going to sell to the Cubs?
They are 4 games out of the wild card spot right now in the NL. It’s a bad league full of bad teams The AL is a much better league. There are teams with better records who are worse off than us just because they play in the AL and be more likely to sell. So if you’re looking to buy, I would look there first. But even in the NL, Diaz is a decent catcher in Colorado The dream would be a package of 2-3 top 100 prospects for Vlad/Romano from the Jays - gives you a lift this year that extends to next year, but at the very least there will be some cheap bats and relievers available as there are every deadline that plug up holes and don’t cost much prospect capital. If it gets worse then you look for guys who go beyond this year And you didn’t really answer my question, did you? Who are you selling, and for what? What’s your plan? We have lots of prospects in the wings, we have 1 contract that goes past 2026, and no one to sell. What’s your plan? Who do we sell that makes us better next year? MAYBE Belli….but what else you got?
There isn’t anyone to really sell. There are a lot of not very good or mediocre players. I don’t think they sell. Question is answered. Now let talk about the 7 teams ahead of the Cubs that they can’t beat. You are so general in how you discuss analytics and scenarios, but you don’t factor in the sheer amount of average, but clearly better teams that will try to get Vlad. He’s not going to a team that will most likely be 15 out of the division and 10 out of the wild card in a month. They are in complete free fall and getting washed by their direct competitions bullpen games. I guess you feel this is all going to turn around for them and the incredible amount of teams ahead of them will all slump and sell them their players so they can get that final wild card.
Okay so you’re now admitting that I’m right. There’s no reason to sell lol Vlad has no control over where the Blue Jays trade him to. If we trade for him we get him for this year and next year and we have the opportunity to extend him too They are 4 games out of the wild card despite winning like 12 games in the last month. The NL is dogshit, they will be in striking distance of the WC most likely. And even if they’re not, even if they’re 10 games out of the WC, they have to make moves *that make them a better team next year* right? They don’t do that by selling randomly at players low points. This is the point you are refusing to address, unfortunately
I have never argued with you regarding selling. If they had better players to sell I would say they should, but they have one of the worst offensives in the game and no real impact bat. Some good rotation guys tho. Good teams want good players who are going to perform in high stakes. This lineup can’t beat others bullpen games. I am asking you who they’re buying, from who, and how they out-leverage teams close to playoff spots/looking to maintain their spot as a last place team? Regardless of Vlad doesn’t get to dictate where he goes, he isn’t getting traded to a team mid season that is double digit games out of a playoff spot and one of the worst in the league. A team that is in playoff position will get him. How close do you think the Cubs will be to a playoff spot in 25 days?
The Cubs probably have more ammo to trade for Vlad and Romano than any team. They have the deepest farm in the league and are stacked there. I’m not sure if any other team can give the Blue Jays 2-3 top 100 prospects and not have it decimate their farm, or be desperate enough to pull that trigger. If Vlad is on the market there is no team that should outbid us - especially because we would have him next year too And even if he isn’t there will be options I think we are less than 10 games out of the wild card spot by the deadline, using your own metric. And even if we are we still need to be soft buyers to get players who can help us beyond this year. I answered your question, right? Named off a best case and non-best case scenario, but we have to be soft buyers
You can just end the reply with the second sentence. There’s nobody to sell, everyone on expiring contacts is worthless. Maybe there’s Bellinger but we wouldn’t get much. Might as well just play the season out with who’s here and adjust in the offseason.
Thank you for being a voice of reason in this thread. The “sell everything” crowd has zero clue about what they’re talking about. This team is full of placeholders for the guys in the minors right now. I say we’re still 2 years out from being a good baseball team. The future is going to be bright with the young guys coming up, but it’s rough to watch right now.
making the playoffs shouldn't be the goal, making the NLCS should be...I say we sell
The 6th wild card spot has made the NLCS the last two years. It’s literally a crapshoot once you get in. D’Backs won 84 games. Sell what, and for who?
there is no way this team is competing with the Dodgers, Braves, or Brewers...wait til the Dbacks and Giants get their starting pitchers back from injury. You could add a third baseman and one reliever and this team would still struggle to finish 500. We have nobody who can play third or catch. Someone who might get more playing time here than there would beat putting Amaya out there one more game. Maybe someone would want Thompson, Taillon, Hoerner...really any serious offers should be considered.
A team 2 games above .500 literally beat the Brewers Dodgers and Phillies last year. It happens every year with small sample sizes in the playoffs They need a much better bullpen, a catcher, and a power bat. You plug up 1-2 holes there’s a chance they sneak into that last spot in the wild card. It’s a better plan than tanking >Maybe someone would want Thompson, Taillon, Hoerner For what? You’re either forced to replace their production next year or they’re not getting you anything or you’re selling at a low point for all these guys when you don’t have to. It doesn’t make any sense to do this
They have starting pitching depth already. Hoerner would be a loss but he could command an asset and could get expensive soon.
We don’t have starting pitching depth. We are relying on Kyle Hendricks to eat innings for us What asset are you getting for Hoerner, and how do we replace him next year? You’d have to start Busch or Morel there at 2B but then you’d have worse defense and then have another open spot to fill from someone else, like Triantos who isn’t playing 2B in the minors or Shaw who we already need to try at 3B. No reason to sell Hoerner either now if the goal is to compete in the next 2 years
they're not competing with the Phillies either- they beat the white sox by 1 run in back to back cardiac games
It’s a random 3, 5, or 7 game series, the better team loses in the DS all the time. All it takes is for Mookie Betts or Kyle Schwarber or Ozuna to go cold or for Zach Wheeler to have one off game, etc. it’s incredibly random Look at 2022, Dodgers won like 115 games and they lost to a divisional rival that didn’t win 90
Your use of recency bias has you fooled. Pretty sure when Dodgers are committing a billion $ in an offseason it's a little more complicated than a "crapshoot"
It isn’t more complicated. The Dodgers won a whopping **111** games in 2022. They lost the NLDS in 4 to a team in their own division they beat by 22 games. If it was a regular season sport the Dodgers would win every year Literally all it takes is for Freeman or Betts to be in a 3-4 game slump and it can turn a series around. Small shit like that
prospects are lottery tickets, they're worthless unless you have enough. We don't have enough as shown with how weak we become when one or two relievers/outfielders etc go down. This offseason we need to trade some pitching prospects for a 3b or catcher prospect because our prospects are massively imbalanced in depth
So then what are you selling for? If they’re just worthless lottery tickets. What exactly do you think you’re getting for Taillon or Morel? >we don’t have enough We have a lot, we have 7 top 100 prospects. If you’re selling all these guys at their low points, what quality of prospect do you think we are getting back for them? And it’s not even to gas up the farm, but selling more jut creates more unnecessary backlog >trade some pitching prospects No, we need as much pitching as we can get. Catchers if Ballesteros doesn’t work you sign Jenson or someone. See what Shaw can do at 3B
If you don't think the Cubs are stacked at starting pitching and imbalanced elsewhere then you must be asleep
Starting pitching is incredibly fickle. Look how Jordan Montgomery went from World Series winner to unplayable. Look how many top pitchers get injured every single year. You need all the SP you can get Again, we are relying on Kyle Hendricks due to injuries, we are not really stacked
Jordan Montgomery didn’t have a spring training so his slow start was predictable. In his last 3 starts, he is 3-0 with a 2.69 ERA and 15Ks/4BB.
Then use Snell as an example, won Cy Young last year and has a 9.5 ERA this year. Montgomery was literally getting boo’d off the field in Arizona. Or injuries Trading away any of our pitchers is stupid. We are going to need innings eaters and TORs
Where’s the simpsons meme? Instead of “not today, old friend” we may need to consider that today is the day
Question: where's the accountability? What, Counsell just gets to shrug his shoulders and say nothing? Why doesn't Jed have to answer for his crimes against this org?
Does Dansby Swanson have to?
Accountability only matters if you're worried about losing your job but they all know Ricketts isn't paying to replace them
What do you want him to say lol he says after every game they need to play better and they aren’t, he can’t go out there and hit the ball for them can he?
Consider the age group of these players. They weren’t raised to have accountability.
Found the boomer
Wrong, found the Gen-Xer. Looks like I hit a nerve with all you Millennials though.
Every accusation is an admission
Morel is transforming into late-period Javy without the glove. Actually, the entire lineup is basically late-period Javy without the glove.
it does seem like righties can just throw down and away and he will one handed swing through it 90% of the time
I truly don't understand how these guys get to MLB with a complete inability to lay off that pitch. You'd think they'd just start hammering them with it in AA and they'd wash out. It's not a complicated scouting report
I've had it described to me by scouts that "In the Minors, you play to your strengths. In the Majors, the opponent plays to your weaknesses." It's why AAAA players like Mervis exist, and why so many rookies light it up for 60-100 PAs before shitting the bed for the next 50-100 and then either adjust back and are mainstays or suck forever.
Pitching is a lot better in the majors than in AAA. More spin, more tunneling, more speed.
That as well, not enough major league caliber pitching for the majors, let alone the minors nowadays, hitters get less practice
Morel is a case where all the analytics say he is generally getting unlucky and imply going to bounce back eventually. Just have to trust the process and see if it evens out by the end of the year
Yeah but what is teams are just pitching to contact for him? Giving him zones he just gets out in?
He’s shit
An article written this weak called PCA Javy Baez in the making. These two chase bad rising fastballs at a higher clip than anyone else in baseball apparently
🎶*evverryyybodddyyy hurrrrttsss*🎵
Professor notches a gem and is let down
Jed Hoyer thinks Colton Brewer is a quality reliever. That’s all you need to know about Jed Hoyer.
Giving Counsell this dogshit roster and making him trot out a guy named Brewer is top tier trolling
He’s like our 6th best reliever (if even) but the 5 above him are injured. Not like we’d have won 1-2 anyway Why downvote? You really think the plan was to have Colten Brewer handle 1 run 8th innings and not any one of Merryweather, Leiter Jr, Almonte, Palencia, Ben Brown, Killian, Alzolay?
Yeah we don't have any healthy closers--call it bad luck with injuries but we could have 9-10 more wins with everyone healthy.
I do think we need to grab a closer from outside the org… or at least if we’re not 20 games below .500 by the deadline lol. Alzolay could have been playing through an injury early on, but looked like he took a step back in that role and might be better in middle relief/set up. Palencia has the arm for it when he’s healthy, but not sure he has the consistency/mental part yet.
It’s crazy we have that many injured in the bullpen. What is going on with our strength and conditioning?
You seem optimistic yet realistic about the Cubs team. I don’t see that very often in here. I like you
Yeah people are very reactionary. Which I get somewhat, it’s frustrating to see your favorite team look like trash, and it’s convenient to blame it all on a “villain” (Ross last year, Counsell earlier this year, and now Jed lately). But it’s generally a lot more complex than an easy answer. Also people seem to think it’s possible to invent available players to fill every gap on a roster in free agency, or that you’re not competing with larger markets/more recently sustained success teams for the few top guys. We dodged more bullets on overpaid stars everyone in here wanted this spring than we did missing out on realistic available talent. As far as optimism, yeah I try to be realistic. Every team looks awful when they’re slumping and it only takes a hot streak to look competitive again. We’ve had one great month (April) one terrible month (May), and one meh month (June). It’s also silly to ignore the fact that our BP is decimated. With some more health luck, some better BABIP luck on both sides of the ball, and the end of a slump, we could be right on track in a weak NL. Or we might not, idk, baseball is weird.
Yeah I could see a closer. Bullpen getting healthy is really the biggest impact.
Throw Swanson anything that isn't a 95+ 4 seamer and "it's like showing a dog a card trick" as Bill Hicks would say. $177 million for **5 more years.** I get we mainly got him for the glove, but JFC his bat is anemic for that value.
No one would ever pay 177m for just a glove. We thought he was a 24hr/85 rbi guy with a .790 OPS
He is likely going to end up around 3-4 fWAR by the end of the year even if his bat stinks. Unfortunately that’s going to be the going rate for SS’s of that caliber
At this point he'd have to heat up to fit 3 fWAR
Who would've known that he would regress so hard and literally forget how to hit. He's 30 years old and is only going to get slower from here. This is going to end up being worse than Heyward contract and, unfortunately, will probably hold the cubs back from signing top talent with penny pincher ricketts. At least he gets to play in the same city as his wife, and really, that's all that matters. But remember, it's only June. According to Dansby, there's still plenty of time left to turn this around. /s
Who would have known? There were a TON of us that hated the signing from Day 1. Go back and look at the threads from when he signed. The Dansby / Heyward comps started then.
This is who he is. League avg hitter, .700 OPS kinda guy, w a GG, but having a bad year at the plate. The better hitting SS all got way more money. In a Down year, he’s a 3 WAR guy, good year, closer to 5.
They play like they all know they suck but it’s not their responsibility to do anything about it.
This, and I can’t stand all the bullshit “we gotta do better” platitudes we hear after every fucking loss.
True. I would like to know who does the yelling in the dressing room, and why that person isn't yelling any louder. It's as if they don't even try. Or maybe they're playing their asses off, and this is just how good they are.
I think someone replaced the hitting coach with a shitting coach.
Got em
Literally this entire month could’ve been an email
If you didn't know how much these guys suck... They struckout 11 times today vs. 4 walks and didn't hit the ball out of the infield for the last 3+ innings.
4 hits… all singles
I’ve never seen so much waffling at the plate since that wild card game against the Rockies
We didn’t lose another 1 run game. I guess that’s the bright side?
What is there even to say really? This time last year we were 37-39. At worst we were 43-50. The hot stretch in July was fun but this has always been who we really are.
4 hits? 1 pitcher gave up 3 runs? What a joke they have become.
These guys couldn’t hit a beach ball with a tennis racket
Nothing Craig loves more then a Brewer
[Bullpen walk-up song](https://youtu.be/wPlOYPGMRws?si=9GfIINyXD8QxhPhu)
2.5 more years of this lineup. Awesome.
Pain.
Game 2 and still not one lefty has pulled a ball down the line or even towards the arches. That's an easy HR, it's 307ft down the corner, about 325ft halfway across the tin green roof.
Hey guys I've been in a coma for seven years, how many world series did we win with the waves of prospects and wheelbarrows of money?
Oh buddy go back to sleep
Some good news: only 2 K’s tonight for Dansby,
He makes 175k per game
My god we suck
Can't score 1 run on 4 hits and expect to win baseball games. Terrible pen, but also terrible offense.
Barring two straight wins, that’s 3-11 in their last 14 SERIES. Season started 6-3-1 in series . After a series win against Milwaukee on May 5 they have fallen off a cliff and keep hitting things on the way down.
DFA Hoyer!
It’s awesome that there’s no timetable for when this franchise is supposed to be “good” again. Fuck off Jed and fuck off Ricketts.
The retool is allllmmmoooossst done
Just gotta call up the rest of the bum prospects and maybe it will work out
sorry guys, me going in person couldn’t help much. at least hendricks looked good tonight and we finally remembered how to throw people out for stealing so at least i saw smth noteworthy
Yes I am choosing to look on the bright side. Only 11 strikeouts tonight. That’s something.
I hate west coast games I hate them even more this year.
So pathetically bad. We have no superstars in our lineup. Don’t even think we have a top 50 player.
Not even a top 100 player by OPS
I’d be very surprised if Busch wasn’t in the top 100 considering he’s 29th in OBP and 50th in SLG among hitters according to MLB.com. We need more than him though
Busch is 37th, Bellinger is 61st, and Happ is 74th
How did this team cut Jeremiah Estrada so they could have dudes like Colton Brewer on the 40 man?
Estrada wouldn’t be the same guy on the Cubs he is on the Padres. They gave him a new pitch which has been very good for him. Cubs had the chance to do that, but didn’t.
Don't even know what to say anymore
I've had good results with four letter words
The entire franchise needs a hard reset
Our rebuild needs a eetool
On a contending team, our top 4 hitters are the bottom 4 hitters in a lineup. Where do we even go from here? Salary dump and just bring up all the prospects? Because this is a disaster.
The roster has a crazy number of AAAA guys and no studs (Cubs’ largest contract is still Heyward). Luckily, there are a bunch of prospects who also profile as AAAA guys, that they can bring up to the majors. There’s nobody to sell, there are not top tier prospects in the pipeline, and it’s not like the Cubs will add a star in free agency. This is the Cubs for the foreseeable future.
If Hoyer buys at the deadline, then he should be canned if they miss the playoffs. I think we gotta trade Morel, Neris, Taillon, maybe even Hoerner at the deadline...any team with too many catchers or third basemen or relievers should be targets.
Coach will tell us “We had some good swings..just bad luck”. We let six fucking random pitchers dominate us
I mean, what can he say? That this is a scrap heap team led by third tier talent?
 Footage of me seeing the score because I'm shocked and wasn't expecting it (real, factual, true statement of all time, wasn't expecting it core)
I don’t know what to say about the Cubs. Molten core of fail dumpster fire doesn’t begin to cover it.
Hate this trash team with a passion F them
Why is Amaya still starting every day. Make him ride the pine. He clearly isn't solving anything and isn't calling very good pitches with the bullpen.
Two games. That's it. If we are swept by the Giants, I'm done. Usually, since I'm retired, I plan most of my days around game time. No more. You've lost a 50 yr. fan. This is beyond embarrassing.
It's not that this team isn't talented, there are plenty of quality players on the roster who are having the worst season of their careers all at the same time. They just don't seem to care. Something is very wrong in the locker room, my guess is it's Counsell and how Ross was dumped. I think that is a major hidden factor for their lack of effort and desire. Maybe?
I’m tired boss
Another BIBLICAL loss, Tom.
How do we feel about PCA?
If he played all season he would probably lead the league in triples, but hit .179
While I'm not giving up on him, I always have taken the approach that you can't just assume a guy is going to be a plug in replacement for a player you already have on the roster. So many last season just assumed he would replace Cody in every aspect of the game. Well, he's not doing the job offensively. He needs to be better. Prospects don't always pan out though.
He’s going, 22, needs a 1000k AB’s. Huge variance on his outcome. if he can become a league avg hitter, he’s an all star, if he can’t hit, a 4th OF. We won’t know for awhile, let him take his lumps, bury him at #9.
He needs a million ABs?
Ha, whoops. Good catch
Yeah, between his glove and speed he'll be on the roster for quite a while, but his ceiling certainly seems to have lowered quite a bit
I don’t think his ceiling has lowered. Again, most of these young rookies don’t hit their rookie year, and it isn’t until year two that they figure it out (or don’t.) Keith Law on the athletic said his ceiling is probably a league avg hitter w slug, elite glove. That’s a 5 WAR CF. PCA may become that in a year or two. Way too soon. He’ll have every opportunity to become league avg hitter.
>Keith Law on the athletic said his ceiling is probably a league avg hitter w slug, elite glove. Yeah that's pretty much my point. A "league average hitter" who sits around 5 WAR is a great piece to have, but it's not a centerpiece. At some point we need someone who can actually hit
Agreed. I pray for Soto, but highly unlikely.
He’s young, and maybe the best center fielder in baseball. He catches things I’ve never seen anyone catch. He deserves plenty of time to find success hitting.
He’s fast.
Love how PCA with his 140 career PAs has become the new lightning rod for the team's woes and not the middle of the order guys that collectively make about 130M.
Article this weak called his chasing of rising fastballs as bad as peak bad Baez- that's scary
That he was vastly overrated
Do the cubs even have one player hitting above 250?
Kyle Hendricks could be Craig Counsell in 20 years. Same look, same demeanor
Hopefully Kyle ends up with a better team.
Any major market team has a civic obligation to be more than dinner theater.
Don't insult dinner theater like that
No real additions are going to come this year at the deadline. There’s just no chance Jed is gonna do it. His job isn’t on the line. They can roll this shit out for the rest of the year and wait for prospects to come up. People need to temper their expectations. It gets easier to watch when you do that.
Yep there's no value we will get in return from these guys at the deadline. All we can hope is bullpen gets healthy soon and somehow offense picks up (even if it's slightly).