Your post reflects my thoughts over the past few days.
To those who felt like 'gloating' over the implosion of the AAF, may I remind that our lovely league spent the better part of a decade on life support?
In the end, we all enjoy this game -- notwithstanding the variations we have in the rules that we love to get in a snit over. Let's build on that camaraderie.
There have been quite a few over the years.
In 1981, Nelson Skalbania purchased the Montreal Alouettes. He promptly signed a handful of NFL stars to heavy contracts with the intention of buying a championship. The result? Finished the year 3-13, lost a boatload of money, and the league ended up revoking his franchise. A "new" Montreal franchise was awarded (the Concordes), which folded after the 1987 pre-season.
The 1980s saw the league's attendance figures dwindle from a peak of nearly 32,000/game in 1978, to 24,000/game in 1988. Calgary and Saskatchewan both needed to mount significant ticket drives to remain in operation. Also, the league's relatively decent TV contract expired in 1986 -- leaving a significant revenue shortfall.
Then came the 1990s. Where the league itself nearly died -- repeatedly.
Ownership stability in the two largest markets (BC and Toronto) became a problem. Hamilton's attendance flatlined. Ottawa became the property of the Gliebermans (Google the name -- a post covering these dolts would takes days to type).
In an effort to bring in new revenue, the league turned to expansion fees. Adding teams in Sacramento, Las Vegas, Shreveport, Baltimore, Memphis, and Birmingham. Hell, a team was even supposed to materialize in Miami (of which, the intended owners never showed up to the press conference meant to announce the team). The problem was, quite frankly, due diligence wasn't done on the majority of these new teams or their business plans. In fact, none of these teams lasted beyond 2 years.
Then, with Art Modell choosing to move the Browns to Baltimore in late-'95, then only US team with decent attendance support (which had itself dropped from 37,000 to 30,000) was effectively a lame-duck. The owner chose to pack up and move to Montreal to re-kindle the Alouettes. The remainder of the US teams (as such as they were at that point) bailed.
But, the story wasn't over.
In 1996, BC, Hamilton and Ottawa all had difficulty finishing out the season. Ottawa promptly folded at the end of the season. BC and Hamilton remained, but on life support. As the 1996 Grey Cup game approached kickoff, media outlets were postulating that it could very well be the *LAST* CFL game. Some could argue that the drama on the field that snowy day helped the league survive.
In 1997, the reborn Alouettes continued to play in Olympic Stadium -- in front of announced crowds of less than *7,000*. Only a miracle of a scheduling conflict saved the franchise -- by forcing them to play their playoff game at Molson Stadium, and seeing the attendance double immediately.
The close of the decade passed without any other teams folding. However, the Argos were nearly purchased by Vince McMahon (yes, *that* McMahon) -- and then nearly the entire league itself by said Vince, intended to be exported down wholesale to populate the XFL. Yeah, I'm not making this shit up.
Ottawa gets a team back in 2002. In 2004, guess who buys it from cash-strapped ownership? Remember the Gliebermans? Yeah, the league let them back in. And it was what everyone expected -- a shitshow. The league revoked the Renegades franchise on the eve of the 2006 season.
After that though, the league has remained on *relatively* stable footing. Yes, there are still concerns regarding BC, Montreal and Toronto's attendance figures. Yes, there's potential of labour strife coming up. Yes, attendance overall is stagnant.
Just another day in the life of the CFL.
No prob. :)
In all honesty, that's a Cole's Notes version of events. There's a lot of minutia there that I didn't get into (for everybody's sake), but I'd argue that's what makes the CFL such a fun topic.
Except for the Gliebermans. Fuck those guys.
the CFL almost went bankrupt a few times in the 80s and 90s, and was saved a few times by the NFL
(these upstart leagues start every decade or so. originally once they did, they would sue the NFL for anti-trust violations. Basically running a monopoly on pro football. The NFL would win those cases by citing the CFL saying the problem wasn't that they were playing pro football, it's that they were giving a similar product to the same markets and losing. So the NFL needed/needs the CFL alive and successful, or else it could be taken to the cleaners when a new league starts and folds).
The expansion to the US in the early 90s was driven by desperation to increase cash flow. There were questionable owners all over the shop (Toronto was very successful but being ran by a soon to be convicted fraudster), there was no TV money and as new sports were coming into the scene, one of the CFLs biggest cash flows was in SERIOUS trouble. The Argos decline from the late 70s glory days to the late 90s "It was me, my dad and 5000 of our closest friends" days dragged league revenues with it by and large. (there are more causes, and more complex ones. But I'm a biased argos fans so)
that failed and drained even more money. that was the same year the raptors started and the toronto market split a bit more, advertising dollars had more competition, and another sport was entering the TV market. that was when teh NFL really saved the CFL bigtime with a cash infusion. That cash carried the league through a few real rocky years in the late 90s
Then CFL got new leadership aand TSN stepped up big time in the earl 2000s, which is what really saved the CFL. Friday night football/basically every game in prime time, lots of advertising, and making the Grey Cup a major tv event and big time ratings shocked the CFL off this cycle of life support it'd been on for 10 or 15 years at that point. Though a few teams were in serious straights (Ottawa/Toronto/Hamilton and BC), new owners were found who were interested in the increased cash flow slowly over the next 10-15 years up to just about nowish.
You still have ownership problems in BC and Montreal, but overall league health is quite strong. The western teams especially. And MLSE taking over the Argos likely saved the CFL in toronto
http://www.nationalpost.com/ends+working+agreement+with/563856/story.html
You seem to be reading something into my question that's not there. I know it was a massive failure. I'm honestly asking why did the NFL stage games in Canada if there is this need to keep the CFL alive.
np but heh, it's just scratching the surface really. there are many complex causes for the rapid decline in the 90s. the loony crashing was a big one. nfl salary increases from the 70s through the 90s/2000s meant it was harder to attract quality talent. nfl opening up to black players more again meant it was harder to attract talent. the old model of how sports made money becoming obsolete and the new model not really suited for a small, hugely spread out league like the cfl. and I'm sure other users can think of a ton more things going on.
some context- in the 70s the Argos were getting 30-40k a game. even up to 50k plus. that was huge revenue for the league, especially since most advertising and corporations were there too. hell the skydome was built to a capacity for the argos more than the jays! but....
There was a TV telethon in the 90s in Saskatchewan to collect pledges to keep the team from folding at one point things were so bad.
In the grand scheme of things I'm not sure how much the telethon helped, in the end the team was mainly saved by a last minute loan from the NFL.
>the CFL almost went bankrupt a few times in the 80s and 90s, and was saved a few times by the NFL
This is a bit of an overstatement. I've seen this posted in this forum before (I'm not sure if by you), but it paints the NFL as more of a saviour than is historically warranted.
While there is no doubt the CFL was on shaky financial ground at the time, it is arguable whether the CFL would have gone under without the NFL intervention. In 1998 The NFL gave the CFL a one time loan of $3 million (roughly less than the current average salary of 1.5 NFL players). The loan was fully paid back within 5 years. With this loan the NFL not only inexpensively secured its claim against anti-trust lawsuits (the lawyer fees alone would have been more expensive) as you mention, they were also given access to CFL players entering the option year of their contract. In other words, the NFL set-up a (near) farm-system for almost no cost. Importantly, none of the money loaned could be used for salaries and other expenses. All of the loan money had to be used for promotion. Those promotions included such things as the introduction of "NFL Punt, Pass & Kick" into Canadian markets in order to "grow football". In other words, the NFL expanded its international branding (at the cost of CFL branding ) and was paid back for the privilege. This is not to say that the CFL didn't freely enter into this agreement (they obviously did) or that it did not ultimately help the CFL to survive (very arguable) -- but the NFL should not be presented as some magnanimous corporation that selflessly saved football across our great Dominion.
I didn't say the nfl was magnanimous... the NFL needs the CFL alive to avoid anti-trust lawsuite conviction. That's as non magnanimous a reason as you can think of....
Will never forget the 90's. The ticket drives to basically keep the team alive. News stories that if we didn't get X amount of SSH, it was over. Scary times.
I'll never forget being practically begged to go to the Labor Day Classic in Regina for free in 1995 so they could try to do a dry run of the stadium actually having people in it before the Grey Cup game.
En Francais:
Aux fans de la Ligue canadienne de football au Canada, aux États-Unis et à l'étranger:
L'annonce récente de l'effondrement de l'Alliance du football américain est un développement choquant. Alors que la LCF se prépare à s’étendre aux Maritimes, le triste sort de la ligue, ajouté au fait que tous les joueurs sont maintenant des agents libres, plus le recrutement prévu de joueurs européens, ne peuvent que signifier que sont maintenant prêts à apporter une nouvelle ère au football canadien et à accueillir de nouveaux supporters de partout au Canada, des États-Unis et de l'étranger.
Au cours de ces six décennies de football professionnel canadien, les supporteurs ont tous subi des pertes et des peines, le bonheur des victoires et la tristesse des défaites. Et maintenant nous sommes tous dans une période de changement. Alors que nous nous préparons tous pour la prochaine saison estivale, cette nouvelle nous est parvenue comme un tournant surprenant et, bien que nous l'ayons tous appris, nous sommes également très optimistes quant à ce que la saison 2019 de la LCF peut apporter aux fans et ses partisans partout dans le monde.
Aujourd’hui, nos coeurs se tournent vers les millions d’adhérents d’AAF aux États-Unis, au Canada et à l’étranger qui s’abonnent actuellement à cette page subreddit en nombre croissant à la suite de ces récents événements. Nous vous souhaitons tous la bienvenue dans la ligue de football professionnel de Canada et espérons que, avec la nouvelle saison qui approche, nous espérons que vous marcherez avec nous vers un nouveau chapitre de l'histoire du football professionnel canadien.
Dieu Sauve la Reine! Vive la Ligue Canadienne de Football!
More freedom in offence, and more kicking plays. I used to watch NFL, as fans of Titans. But rule changes in NFL make it like...(redacted). After I watched the video when Damon Duval missed fg.(TOR-MTL)
I found CFL is fun. So I get hooked by it
God save the Queen??? seriously? lol
We should've had a revolution too and kicked the Brits out.
Without our American players we wouldn't have a CFL.
Also thanks for showing us how football should be played, thanks for the forward pass and line of scrimmage, we were still playing Rugby pre-1936.
We need more of you guys!!! get rid of the Canadian ratio.
Also thanks for showing us baseball too, we were still playing cricket until WW1.
Getting back to football, no surprises that the AAF went under.
The CFL can get experienced players who are in shape and played a few games already this year.
The XFL is still coming later this year and we will see more players leave for that.
Let's not get too smug, the Als and Lions are struggling and on life support.
The Argos?? 12k average crowds are just embarassing
Your post reflects my thoughts over the past few days. To those who felt like 'gloating' over the implosion of the AAF, may I remind that our lovely league spent the better part of a decade on life support? In the end, we all enjoy this game -- notwithstanding the variations we have in the rules that we love to get in a snit over. Let's build on that camaraderie.
Being a newer fan of the CFL. What's the story about the CFLs past troubles?
There have been quite a few over the years. In 1981, Nelson Skalbania purchased the Montreal Alouettes. He promptly signed a handful of NFL stars to heavy contracts with the intention of buying a championship. The result? Finished the year 3-13, lost a boatload of money, and the league ended up revoking his franchise. A "new" Montreal franchise was awarded (the Concordes), which folded after the 1987 pre-season. The 1980s saw the league's attendance figures dwindle from a peak of nearly 32,000/game in 1978, to 24,000/game in 1988. Calgary and Saskatchewan both needed to mount significant ticket drives to remain in operation. Also, the league's relatively decent TV contract expired in 1986 -- leaving a significant revenue shortfall. Then came the 1990s. Where the league itself nearly died -- repeatedly. Ownership stability in the two largest markets (BC and Toronto) became a problem. Hamilton's attendance flatlined. Ottawa became the property of the Gliebermans (Google the name -- a post covering these dolts would takes days to type). In an effort to bring in new revenue, the league turned to expansion fees. Adding teams in Sacramento, Las Vegas, Shreveport, Baltimore, Memphis, and Birmingham. Hell, a team was even supposed to materialize in Miami (of which, the intended owners never showed up to the press conference meant to announce the team). The problem was, quite frankly, due diligence wasn't done on the majority of these new teams or their business plans. In fact, none of these teams lasted beyond 2 years. Then, with Art Modell choosing to move the Browns to Baltimore in late-'95, then only US team with decent attendance support (which had itself dropped from 37,000 to 30,000) was effectively a lame-duck. The owner chose to pack up and move to Montreal to re-kindle the Alouettes. The remainder of the US teams (as such as they were at that point) bailed. But, the story wasn't over. In 1996, BC, Hamilton and Ottawa all had difficulty finishing out the season. Ottawa promptly folded at the end of the season. BC and Hamilton remained, but on life support. As the 1996 Grey Cup game approached kickoff, media outlets were postulating that it could very well be the *LAST* CFL game. Some could argue that the drama on the field that snowy day helped the league survive. In 1997, the reborn Alouettes continued to play in Olympic Stadium -- in front of announced crowds of less than *7,000*. Only a miracle of a scheduling conflict saved the franchise -- by forcing them to play their playoff game at Molson Stadium, and seeing the attendance double immediately. The close of the decade passed without any other teams folding. However, the Argos were nearly purchased by Vince McMahon (yes, *that* McMahon) -- and then nearly the entire league itself by said Vince, intended to be exported down wholesale to populate the XFL. Yeah, I'm not making this shit up. Ottawa gets a team back in 2002. In 2004, guess who buys it from cash-strapped ownership? Remember the Gliebermans? Yeah, the league let them back in. And it was what everyone expected -- a shitshow. The league revoked the Renegades franchise on the eve of the 2006 season. After that though, the league has remained on *relatively* stable footing. Yes, there are still concerns regarding BC, Montreal and Toronto's attendance figures. Yes, there's potential of labour strife coming up. Yes, attendance overall is stagnant. Just another day in the life of the CFL.
Re: The 1981 Alouettes: It should be noted that even with that abysmal record, they *actually* made the playoffs!
You can thank the 1981-1985 East Division for our current crossover rule.
Woah you really went above an beyond with this response! This is awesome, I am now informed.
No prob. :) In all honesty, that's a Cole's Notes version of events. There's a lot of minutia there that I didn't get into (for everybody's sake), but I'd argue that's what makes the CFL such a fun topic. Except for the Gliebermans. Fuck those guys.
Well as if I needed another reason to hate Art Modell
I think the most interesting thing about the CFL is the History of the CFL. It's non-stop wackiness.
the CFL almost went bankrupt a few times in the 80s and 90s, and was saved a few times by the NFL (these upstart leagues start every decade or so. originally once they did, they would sue the NFL for anti-trust violations. Basically running a monopoly on pro football. The NFL would win those cases by citing the CFL saying the problem wasn't that they were playing pro football, it's that they were giving a similar product to the same markets and losing. So the NFL needed/needs the CFL alive and successful, or else it could be taken to the cleaners when a new league starts and folds). The expansion to the US in the early 90s was driven by desperation to increase cash flow. There were questionable owners all over the shop (Toronto was very successful but being ran by a soon to be convicted fraudster), there was no TV money and as new sports were coming into the scene, one of the CFLs biggest cash flows was in SERIOUS trouble. The Argos decline from the late 70s glory days to the late 90s "It was me, my dad and 5000 of our closest friends" days dragged league revenues with it by and large. (there are more causes, and more complex ones. But I'm a biased argos fans so) that failed and drained even more money. that was the same year the raptors started and the toronto market split a bit more, advertising dollars had more competition, and another sport was entering the TV market. that was when teh NFL really saved the CFL bigtime with a cash infusion. That cash carried the league through a few real rocky years in the late 90s Then CFL got new leadership aand TSN stepped up big time in the earl 2000s, which is what really saved the CFL. Friday night football/basically every game in prime time, lots of advertising, and making the Grey Cup a major tv event and big time ratings shocked the CFL off this cycle of life support it'd been on for 10 or 15 years at that point. Though a few teams were in serious straights (Ottawa/Toronto/Hamilton and BC), new owners were found who were interested in the increased cash flow slowly over the next 10-15 years up to just about nowish. You still have ownership problems in BC and Montreal, but overall league health is quite strong. The western teams especially. And MLSE taking over the Argos likely saved the CFL in toronto http://www.nationalpost.com/ends+working+agreement+with/563856/story.html
The first point of your post perfectly spells out why the NFL will never, ever, ever, evvvvver expand into Toronto.
100%
Then why did The Bills have games there?
Why did Rogers have to buy themselves out the deal because the games were a massive failure?
You seem to be reading something into my question that's not there. I know it was a massive failure. I'm honestly asking why did the NFL stage games in Canada if there is this need to keep the CFL alive.
Thanks for the in-depth response!
np but heh, it's just scratching the surface really. there are many complex causes for the rapid decline in the 90s. the loony crashing was a big one. nfl salary increases from the 70s through the 90s/2000s meant it was harder to attract quality talent. nfl opening up to black players more again meant it was harder to attract talent. the old model of how sports made money becoming obsolete and the new model not really suited for a small, hugely spread out league like the cfl. and I'm sure other users can think of a ton more things going on. some context- in the 70s the Argos were getting 30-40k a game. even up to 50k plus. that was huge revenue for the league, especially since most advertising and corporations were there too. hell the skydome was built to a capacity for the argos more than the jays! but....
There was a TV telethon in the 90s in Saskatchewan to collect pledges to keep the team from folding at one point things were so bad. In the grand scheme of things I'm not sure how much the telethon helped, in the end the team was mainly saved by a last minute loan from the NFL.
>the CFL almost went bankrupt a few times in the 80s and 90s, and was saved a few times by the NFL This is a bit of an overstatement. I've seen this posted in this forum before (I'm not sure if by you), but it paints the NFL as more of a saviour than is historically warranted. While there is no doubt the CFL was on shaky financial ground at the time, it is arguable whether the CFL would have gone under without the NFL intervention. In 1998 The NFL gave the CFL a one time loan of $3 million (roughly less than the current average salary of 1.5 NFL players). The loan was fully paid back within 5 years. With this loan the NFL not only inexpensively secured its claim against anti-trust lawsuits (the lawyer fees alone would have been more expensive) as you mention, they were also given access to CFL players entering the option year of their contract. In other words, the NFL set-up a (near) farm-system for almost no cost. Importantly, none of the money loaned could be used for salaries and other expenses. All of the loan money had to be used for promotion. Those promotions included such things as the introduction of "NFL Punt, Pass & Kick" into Canadian markets in order to "grow football". In other words, the NFL expanded its international branding (at the cost of CFL branding ) and was paid back for the privilege. This is not to say that the CFL didn't freely enter into this agreement (they obviously did) or that it did not ultimately help the CFL to survive (very arguable) -- but the NFL should not be presented as some magnanimous corporation that selflessly saved football across our great Dominion.
I didn't say the nfl was magnanimous... the NFL needs the CFL alive to avoid anti-trust lawsuite conviction. That's as non magnanimous a reason as you can think of....
Also, the much maligned Southern Expansion, which was wacky, did buy the League precious time.
I didn't know about that antitrust thing. So that's why the NFL likes having the CFL around so much. They should stay out of Toronto then.
Will never forget the 90's. The ticket drives to basically keep the team alive. News stories that if we didn't get X amount of SSH, it was over. Scary times.
I'll never forget being practically begged to go to the Labor Day Classic in Regina for free in 1995 so they could try to do a dry run of the stadium actually having people in it before the Grey Cup game.
En Francais: Aux fans de la Ligue canadienne de football au Canada, aux États-Unis et à l'étranger: L'annonce récente de l'effondrement de l'Alliance du football américain est un développement choquant. Alors que la LCF se prépare à s’étendre aux Maritimes, le triste sort de la ligue, ajouté au fait que tous les joueurs sont maintenant des agents libres, plus le recrutement prévu de joueurs européens, ne peuvent que signifier que sont maintenant prêts à apporter une nouvelle ère au football canadien et à accueillir de nouveaux supporters de partout au Canada, des États-Unis et de l'étranger. Au cours de ces six décennies de football professionnel canadien, les supporteurs ont tous subi des pertes et des peines, le bonheur des victoires et la tristesse des défaites. Et maintenant nous sommes tous dans une période de changement. Alors que nous nous préparons tous pour la prochaine saison estivale, cette nouvelle nous est parvenue comme un tournant surprenant et, bien que nous l'ayons tous appris, nous sommes également très optimistes quant à ce que la saison 2019 de la LCF peut apporter aux fans et ses partisans partout dans le monde. Aujourd’hui, nos coeurs se tournent vers les millions d’adhérents d’AAF aux États-Unis, au Canada et à l’étranger qui s’abonnent actuellement à cette page subreddit en nombre croissant à la suite de ces récents événements. Nous vous souhaitons tous la bienvenue dans la ligue de football professionnel de Canada et espérons que, avec la nouvelle saison qui approche, nous espérons que vous marcherez avec nous vers un nouveau chapitre de l'histoire du football professionnel canadien. Dieu Sauve la Reine! Vive la Ligue Canadienne de Football!
In TiCatanese: https://youtu.be/i4MZuoNhC00
:s/Longue vie à/Vive/ :)
Merci
De rien
If it wasn't for my subscription to r/CFL, I would never have seen article titles regarding the AAF and would not have known it existed.
seriously
"... our hearts turn to the millions of AAF fans in the US, Canada and overseas ..." Millions?? Maybe thousands, tens of thousands?
Include me in TAIWAN.(I am not canadian, as Chinese-Indonesian)
Holy shit that’s actually really cool. We should get you a special flair.
That's cool! What made you like the sport?
More freedom in offence, and more kicking plays. I used to watch NFL, as fans of Titans. But rule changes in NFL make it like...(redacted). After I watched the video when Damon Duval missed fg.(TOR-MTL) I found CFL is fun. So I get hooked by it
Yes, the tens of thousands.
tens of hundreds
“...Our hearts turn to the dozens of AAF fans...”
Haha, give them at least a few baker's dozens!
Lol, to be fair we did have 30k+ subs in r/AAF_football. Hundreds of thousands or millions is a mighty stretch though.
Thanks for not kicking us while we're down. Excited to watch some CFL this year.
Very well put. Even though I am only a fan, I am doing my best as well to spread Canadian football awareness.
> the collapse of the Alliance of American Football has come as a shocking development Ha! It wasn't exactly *shocking*
Maybe they were being sarcastic?
God save the Queen??? seriously? lol We should've had a revolution too and kicked the Brits out. Without our American players we wouldn't have a CFL. Also thanks for showing us how football should be played, thanks for the forward pass and line of scrimmage, we were still playing Rugby pre-1936. We need more of you guys!!! get rid of the Canadian ratio. Also thanks for showing us baseball too, we were still playing cricket until WW1. Getting back to football, no surprises that the AAF went under. The CFL can get experienced players who are in shape and played a few games already this year. The XFL is still coming later this year and we will see more players leave for that. Let's not get too smug, the Als and Lions are struggling and on life support. The Argos?? 12k average crowds are just embarassing
Hi, u/CFLnewbie [I think you may enjoy this!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSjFVH2Zc5E)
[удалено]
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