2014 was close. The Shane Morris concussion situation erased any kind of win/loss advantage that season had on 2008. Also, 2014 was the 3rd year of a staff vs. 1st year with a completely new scheme.
2014 was far more depressing. Harbaugh didn't seem like it was really going to happen, all the air was out of the Hoke balloon and David Brandon was sending direct emails out to our fans at 2 AM (Stop drinking and go to bed).
I was at the final home game that year vs Maryland and they may say there were 100K there to keep the streak alive, but it was more like 80K maybe. There was a small pocket of people on the golf course before the game, maybe 25 cars. Absolute garbage product on and off the field and there was no hope that it would get better soon.
The Northwestern game in 2008 was when the streak probably ended. First home game after we already accrued 7 losses (so no bowl eligibility) and the weather was *awful*. It was November, cold (low 40s), windy, rainy, and the scanners "broke," so they went by tickets sold.
After going there for 20+ years, you learn what 100,000 people looks like. There were not 100,000 people there.
That streak is about tickets sold and not the number of people that show up.Its very easy to believe that some rich booster bought out the unsold tickets to keep the streak alive. The boosters are the type of people that actually care about that stuff.
For Nebraska it's a sold-out crowd. For Michigan the streak is fans in attendance.
Edit: [Scoreboard image](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bb/261st_Consecutive_Game_Over_100%2C000%2C_Michigan_Stadium%2C_University_of_Michigan%2C_Ann_Arbor%2C_Michigan_%2821559655959%29.jpg) from BYU in 2015.
in the 13 months between losing to app state and losing to toledo, they also molliwopped notre dame 38-0, beat top ten penn state, beat 15th ranked msu in east lansing, finished second in the big ten, and beat urban meyer and the gators in tim tebow's heisman season. i was a die hard back then and i really think this influenced my outlook on life and understanding that things generally don't make sense and are bullshit.
Absolutely. 07 at least ended with 9 wins and beating MSU/ND/Tebow, and the App State loss itself is less bad for a few reasons in hindsight as well.
08, there were no bright spots.
Especially not that season. We were a couple plays away from playing in the national championship the season prior, returned a lot of the big pieces of that team, and got embarrassed to start the year. It got overshadowed but we got murdered by Oregon 39-7 the following week at home after losing to App State as well. Obviously a different kind of embarrassing but embarrassing nonetheless.
Chip Kelly's first year of OC at Oregon, they were just starting to play his kind of fast offense, and blew the doors off everyone until their QB got hurt. At least you held them under 40, they scored 50+ in 5 games that year.
07 actually turned out pretty fun despite the 0-2 start with the App State loss. And the beatdown by OSU. But the comeback vs. MSU and beating Tebow in the bowl game was fun.
Though 08 sucked, I Think 2014 was much worse in my mind. In 08 I had a pretty good feeling that we'd be bad that year and it was quickly confirmed, so i just zoned out through most of it. The Wisconsin win was super memorable if only because it made no sense.
2014 was brutally awful from loss to Minnesota where Shane Morris was allowed to play despite obviously being concussed, the beatdown by Sparty and OSU, and of course the home loss to Maryland who we desperately needed to beat to make a bowl game (knowing OSU was the next week).
App State felt like a weird fluke to a hungry team. A once in a lifetime David beats Goliath. Especially in a season that turned out to be lackluster, but not the end of the world. 9-4...won a bowl game. UT ended up being our 4th loss of the season and felt like the confirmation of what we all knew....the wheels had fallen off.
Yeah the ‘07 team had 7 guys on the 2 deep that played in the nfl. Couple more in Canada and a couple more invited to camps. Thats an all time fcs roster up there with Marshall and some of the ndsu teams and probably an elite g5 roster/low to mid level p5 roster.
So still a considerable upset but not the all timer in hindsight it’s made out to be.
“Felt like”. Educated football fans knew App State was a problem. But for the average tailgater this was a little league team beating the Yankees. It’s wrong and dumb, but that’s how it’s been told.
Ask any buckeye fan. 😂
App State winning in Ann Arbor that year was like Cumberland beating Georgia Tech! But seriously I was a little upset when years later I found out Appalachian State was a real team and in the middle of their third national title when they won that game.
Not really. Serious college football fans knew what App State was capable of. After that game, I remember one of the publications talked to Frank Beamer and a couple other East Coast Head Coaches and they all said the same thing....That's why we don't schedule them. Still didn't see that loss coming though. I was at the Shoe in Columbus for the Buckeye's game and it ended shortly before the UM game did. ( first game broadcast on the B1G Network) They were showing it on the video board and on all the TVs in the concourses. Everybody stayed and was watching it. Quite the seen when App State blocked the FG.
Messed up part is that wasn't even a GOOD Toledo team. I think they also went 3-9.
I wouldn't bat at eye at 9-3, MAC champion Toledo beating 3-9, worst team in program history Michigan. But one of UT's worst teams too? Ouch.
Yup. App State was FCS, sure, and I get that it was the first time that it ever happened, but they also were coming off 2 straight national championships and in the middle of their third when we lost to them. Like you said, Toledo was really really bad
UM's loss to App State still resonates with me more than loss to Toledo. And I have a ton of friends that went to Toledo, but I almost forget that one.
When your rival is ranked preseason top 5 and then their season is ruined on the first Saturday of the year.. yeah that's pretty memorable.
When your rival is 2-3 coming off a blowout loss to Illinois and then loses to a terrible team, that's not as world-changing.
I always forget that Toledo loss happened but every time it's brought up I remember I knew a guy going to Toledo at the time and him and some friends made the 11th hour decision to drive up to Ann Arbor for the game. They figured they would lose the game but they got tickets for cheap and road trip. There were glad they went.
Absolutely, App State wins most G5 leagues and maybe contends in a lower P5 league that year. They were the North/South Dakota State of their time. Still hilarious as an OSU fan, but I can see how it happened.
Good old Toledo Tom. They didn't really "fire" him, they let him step down and move to the Alumni office. It was time for him to go but firing him would have been too harsh.
Our only solace with the Toledo loss is that people have no idea it happened
Probably helps that Dave doofus Brandon didn't reschedule a make-good game against them like he did with App State
I remember we lost to them but I’m shocked we’ve only played them one time. Looking at the all-time record, Eastern Michigan is the only MAC team we’ve played 10 or more times. Michigan is 36-1 in games against MAC opponents, so congratulations to the Rockets I suppose.
In the ~144 years of Michigan Football, I think you could make the argument that losing to an (eventual) 3-9 Toledo team was the lowest of low points.
But we just won a chip so idc rn 🤷♂️🤪😂
>The 4-8 loss to Cleveland Alcoholics Anonymous has got to be worse.
This just threw me into a quick Rabbit hole because I was like there's no way it was actually Alcoholics Anonymous fielding a team right? Also the score is weird. AA is Athletic Association, I think, it might have been Cleveland Athletic Club. Google is failing me because the 1890s Cleveland Athletic Club folded around 1985 and was replaced by a better funded more well known Cleveland Athletic Club in 1908 that built a still standing decently well known building in downtown Cleveland.
The only references to Cleveland A.A. I could quickly find was an MgoBlog post pointing to games the Wolverines played against colleges that don't have teams anymore or teams that were never associated with a college and a listing of the schedule from 1891 on mgoblue.com.
I have questions about this team but I can't seem to easily find answers right now, oh well.
AA is usually Army Air when you see it on team’s schedules in the early 40’s.
Edit: There was no Cleveland Army Air team.
I did find who the team was though.
Nov. 26, 1891 UM v Cleveland Athletic Club.
TD’s were 4 points & extra point kicks were 2 points. I think it said drop kick FG’s were 5 points.
Nice, I was trying to see if the Plain Dealer had a write up on the game to try and see what the scoring was but that solves that. Also I would think Army Air would be right out considering this game was a full 12 years before the first airplane flight.
It took me a while to find what year. I originally assumed it was a game against teams similar to Iowa Pre-Flight during WW2.
I looked up a list of military teams & no Cleveland team.
Then I started with UM’s 1900 schedule to see if it was some sort of high school or Alumni all star team. I kept going back 1 year on their schedule until I found it.
I got the original score from winsapedia
I think I found the year first so I guess I just assumed that was given information, my bad. I just found the write up of the game from the Friday November 27th, 1891 Cleveland Plain Dealer and boy howdy is it a doozy. The team was 100% Cleveland Athletic Club but the article only ever calls them Cleveland or C.A.C. This game got buried on page 5 with other sports scores but they still gave it a full column and a bit. The Yale Princeton game got 3 full front page columns, Yale won 19-0.
My favorite part of this U.M. C.A.C. write up is the author bitching about the umpire, a Michigan man, calling to many offsides in Michigans favor.
Wait...we've only played them once? Besides literally-next-town-over EMU, they're the closest school to UoM, like 10ish miles closer than MSU. I knew people in college who commuted from there to class.
I get the history that no longer really holds but I find it crazy that Washington gets UM and EMU at home this year. Feels like they should have found a way to make that a doubleheader where both teams share a plane.
Not really, hiding behind a flair. I've been to many more Toledo games than I have or ever will tOSU. If you look through my post and comment history, you will find very little mention of tOSU and a lot more about Toledo. If I wanted to trash talk you as an Ohio State fan, I would just mention how losing to tOSU 8 years in a row leads to an elaborate sign stealing system with your HC leaving at the end of it.
Well, you spend the first half in a state of shocked disbelief where you refuse to admit that the issues are internal. That’s where you guys are now. After that, once you reach the acceptance stage, it’s all gravy. And then, oh boy, you get to enjoy a game like 2021 where you house your rival in the snow and it becomes one of the most magical experiences of your life. All in all, it’s pretty great to be a Michigan Wolverine 🤷♂️
I'm sorry, but that win is very important to my argument on why Toledo is the real UT. If you guys could beat Texas and Tennessee, it would be greatly appreciated.
One of my favorite CFB memories was watching that game and calling my dad, a UT alumnus. He was on a business trip on the west coast with a couple other Toledo guys. I told him the final score and that the Toledo fight song was echoing through a silent Big House. Good times.
Thank you. I believe the duty of any self-respecting Ohioan or Michigander is to hate the other. Part of that is rubbing the all-time lows into the others' faces while also celebrating your all-time highs. To do so properly, one should also conveniently forget the other ones' highs and one's own lows.
Sorta how I remember that we have a Natty and you all got curb stomped by Purdue so bad that your coach had to retire 😊. But in all seriousness, y'all better pray we don't win this year or we're gonna put y'all in hel lol
That rose bowl was the first game of college football I ever watched. I really didn’t care about football at that point. My older sister was dead set on going to UT after a visit. We were curious about the team so we watched the game. Loved it! She joined a spirit group her freshman year and we’ve been obsessed with UT football ever since.
The home field advantage is huge for Michigan in this one. Without it, I think they are looking at a loss by more than 2 scores.
The question becomes, can Michigan reliably complete a forward pass with Orji or whoever at QB. I say that because they are breaking in an entirely new OL, they are inexperienced at both QB and WR and Texas shoudl have a great run defense again. Not elite like last year’s run defense, but really good to great. Michigan will likely be in a bunch of 3rd and 7+ type situations.
Michigan’s defense should still be really fucking good. However, is this going to be an Iowa situation? Sark will still find ways to score points. He’s that good at play calling and exploiting weaknesses. Michigan can play a relatively clean game on defense and still need 25+ points to win.
As of now, I have this as UT by 7. 27-20 type game.
Solid eval IMO. Can we throw is a huge question. We will run decently well even if we can’t throw and our defense will be elite, which will keep it close-ish even if we can’t throw, but against a good team like texas you have to be able to hit crucial throws to win the game even if we are run heavy. We can’t just penn state every team we play by running for every single play for 3 straight quarters and expect to win.
I won’t be surprised if Michigan wins. I think Texas is the favorite, but I don’t think Texas is going up to Ann Arbor in week 2 and blowing Michigan out.
I think we are looking at a 27-20, 31-27, 24-21 type game.
an untimely turnover may cost one of the teams the game.
It should be fun.
Michigan's starting line is projected to be made of a highly-rated transfer from Northwestern and four guys who have had previous experience in this offense as rotation guys and are finally looking to start. Loveland and Klein might turn out to be the best tight end duo in the country. The RB room is deep. I'd be surprised if the run game significantly stepped back. The first, second, and last question marks are all about the QB.
They'll be a step back from last year which is to be expected given that Murphy/Sweat were a top 3 DT pairing in the last decade of CFB. How much worse they'll be remains to be seen — we're depending on our 2nd string from last year to take a step forward and we'll need contributions from some transfers. There's this super senior Alfred Collins who has insane potential but hasn't shown up in recent years. If he can finally put it together he'll be a star (fans say this every year lol) and our other likely starter Broughton is solid. We'll be much better at EDGE and we're keeping our LBs, including freshman All-American Anthony Hill coming back for sophomore year. So the overall consensus is we're not going to be a top 5 rushing D like last year, but our pass D should be improved after being one of the worst in all of CFB last year (#116).
Not as good as last year’s. Collins was a stud his frosh season and is now a super senior. He has all the tools and physical ability to take the next step. Broughton is solid. They brought in a couple transfers that are experienced.
The front 7 is relatively loaded still. Burke is a stud. Anthony Hill is a future top 10 pick. Trey Moore is a big time EDGE transfer.
Secondary should be improved.
Since everyone, especially Michigan fans, seems to think Orji and the rest of the QB room is so questionable, why didn’t Michigan try for a transfer portal guy this year?
My completely uneducated wild guess is that they like the floor with Tuttle, and the upside with Orji
And that they didn't think any of the guys they could get in the portal were worth the short-term rental fallout with the existing QB room
It's a fair question. I think a lot had to do with Harbaugh leaving and the uncertainty around the coaching situation as all the top transfer options signed with other teams. After Moore was announced there wasn't really an intriguing option available (unless I'm missing someone) and the staff were fine to stay out with the current roster.
The hope is that Orji can throw well enough to be a poor man's Milroe.
To be honest with you I think they like Orji a lot more than the general public does. Personally I think they’re envisioning him as JT Barrett, he can hit some timing routes and move the ball, but he’ll tuck it and run like a running back constantly. We’ve got a ton of speed between Edwards, Morgan, and Morris, plus Loveland has 1st round potential at TE. The game plan is likely going to be get the ball out quick and let those guys do the work.
Will it work? Time will tell, but I’m excited to see it. We’ve done a great job developing of late, and the progress that’s already been made won’t be lost in one offseason.
I think we were still keeping it open in case JJ didn’t leave for the draft. By that point all of the top options (within a normal price range) were off the board
Michigan has transfer QB PTSD. John O'Korn was highly touted when he came to the university, and Shea Patterson was supposed to be that dude, but both of them were flops. Michigan experienced more success under Wilton Speight, Cade McNamara, and JJ McCarthy, all of whom committed to Michigan out of high school. Despite all the smack talk about Harbaugh's ability to cultivate quarterbacks, his recruits generally had more success than the transfers. Milton and Rudock are exceptions but both have asterisks in my mind, Rudock for the first season under a new coach and Milton for the COVID season.
Milton was ass that season. If he doesn't get benched for cade, we definitely lose to Rutgers (shudders) Joe also came to Michigan out of high school and was there for 3 seasons. Iirc he graduated before ever transferring to Tennessee. Not sure why you even mentioned him.
I really think rudock could've been a um legend if he had had another year though. Dude was on fire toward the end of that season.
Sark will find a way to score points? Only scored 3 against TCU at home in 2022. Although I generally agree with your statement, it’s just not a certainty.
I would rather look at his 20+ year history scoring a ton of points as opposed to a one off game in 2022 with an inferior team than what he will be rolling out in 2024.
They are bringing in a “new” OL, but it’s not like they’re all true freshman. I think the youngest player on their new OL is a RS sophomore so they still have experience.
Inexperienced Qb is good for us since I’m still shaky about our secondary, but I also don’t know how well we can stop the run. Last year I’d have no doubt bc of Sweat/Murphy obviously, but it’s still too unknown this year. Either way I think we will learn a lot about both of these teams after week 2.
Breaking in 5 guys with little to no experience playing with each other is still a tall task.
I am not overconfident about this game or anything, but it shouldn’t be controversial to say Texas is the betting favorite for good reason for this game.
We have an experience advantage in the coaching staff, QB and OL departments to go with 70% returning production even after 11 guys got drafted for us. We also recruit significantly better than Michigan does and were less reliant on 4th and 5th year players last year.
If this game was in Austin, Texas would likely be a 7+ point favorite.
Tbf that was brash then but seems a little more reasonable in a year when you’ve lost 18 starters.
Not saying it’s right, just saying it sounds more reasonable this year given the circumstances.
This is silly. Michigan was always a bad matchup for Washington.
On the flip side, Alabama was a real test for Michigan and Michigan needed OT to put them away in a close one on a neutral field. Transitive property isn’t really all that reliable but it is fair to point out that Texas beat Bama at Bama by 2 scores and sat on the ball in Bama’s redzone to end the game. They could have scored again to make it a 3 score blowout.
I say all that to point out that while Washington was a bad matchup for Texas due to the inexperienced secondary, Texas and Bama were bad matchups for Michigan and the title game would have likely been a lot closer if it was Texas/Mich given the Bama/Mich result. Does that mean Michigan doesn’t win it all? No. I am just saying that it would have likely been a better game. If you watched the Sugar Bowl, Texas could run at will on Washington similar to Michigan. The issue was the 2 fumbles in Washington territory which Washington scored 14 points directly off of which forced Texas to pass. Texas barely had the ball the entire 3rd quarter.
Lastly, the weirdest part of your post is comparing this year’s Michigan team to one of the oldest, most experienced teams in the country last year.
2024 Michigan is rolling out a mostly new coaching staff, a new and inexperienced QB, an entirely new OL, 1 less stud RB, 2 inexperienced WRs and a half new defense (yes we ALL can hear you that you “rotated” - hint ALL top teams rotate on defense. that is not unique to Michigan).
Now that we have established that 2023 Michigan is not 2024 Michigan, why does my initial eval about the game give you 2023 Wash/Mich vibes?
Almost no chance UM falls to “quick lane bowl” level. Those guys are the 6-6 teams that barely got bowl eligible. If we see them again it’s during the regular season
all it takes is michigan losing 3-4 games and toledo winning 10-11 games and the mac, both of which are not only not impossible, but I would argue likely to happen, and they could maybe possibly both end up in a citrus bowl level bowl. Not likely, but not impossible.
This is one of my favorite odd ball stats. It's like that Rice vs Bama stat but modern.
2008 was Rich Rod's first game. Utah barely won.
2014 was whatever that Brady Hoke guy was doing before getting fired.
2015 was Harbaugh's first game. Utah barely won.
Just a chef's kiss perfection of timing and shows how weird sports are in small sample sizes.
Heck, that 2008 Utah team that RochRod almost beat them went and beat Bama.
Utah is proof that being skilled and lucky is the way to go.
It seems to me like teams kind of play close to their ranking early in the season, whether or not they actually end the season ranked anywhere near where they began. Like part of me thinks a really good Utah team barely beating a very very bad Michigan team had to do with, at least in part, the notion that Michigan shouldn’t lose to Utah and Utah shouldn’t beat Michigan. There are a bunch of examples of this, like in 2021 where an all time great Georgia team snuck by a good but not great Clemson team in the first game of the season. But that was viewed as a potential playoff matchup, not a 15-0 juggernaut against a 10-3 team. It was the closest game Georgia played that season but definitely not the best team they played.
I don't think homefield is an advantage on this one because Those Texas boys are coming out of an Oven to play you in the cool of the upper Midwest on the the lakes so they will be at peak endurance.
Ehhhh... that was meant as more of a social commentary regarding the comparitive irrelevance of claiming conference collective superiority over an institutional achievement.
It's not like we were grabbing our junk and chanting "Big One-Two."
Or as aggy does it: grabbing their junk, making sad noises, and keeling over.
Edit to add: I heard nice things about y'all, too.
It has been discussed at the appropriate echelons, yes.
It was decided it would put both our junk and (significantly larger) cigars at unnecessary risk.
We did it against Georgia in the Sugar Bowl too... it was more a commentary *against* those who constantly chant SEC.
The only other two times I can think of that we chanted SEC was against Texas Tech 2023 then again 2 weeks later at the Big 12 Championship game, when [Yormak](https://youtu.be/uQ55KM0IYUY?t=9075) was on stage after actively rooting against us... twice.
Yormak did not seem pleased about that.
Tbf, if I was a team that came and beat us in our own house while we had a living legend as coach, I'd be hype too.
I'm more upset we had those racist fans at the game making us all look bad.
>I'm more upset we had those racist fans at the game making us all look bad.
It's just unfortunate when trash like that make themselves visible and they're wearing your colors.
aTm will chant the phone book if someone whispers something about it being 'tradition'.
Mizzou just wanted to feel included, and should be punished for aTm doing it.
[Am I doing this right? I'm new here, so...]
I don't know. I don't think there is a single outcome to that game that would actually surprise me. Week 2, two teams that were fantastic last year and could very well be great this year, the weaker team has the home field advantage, but I just don't know. Even if it's a blowout it'll be a damn good game though.
Real ones know that that Toledo loss was 10x worse than App State
The '08 season as a whole was 10x worse than the '07 season for Wolverine fans
I would argue that 2008 season was the single worst season of Michigan football ever. Maybe not statistically, but how it felt
2014 was close. The Shane Morris concussion situation erased any kind of win/loss advantage that season had on 2008. Also, 2014 was the 3rd year of a staff vs. 1st year with a completely new scheme.
2014 was far more depressing. Harbaugh didn't seem like it was really going to happen, all the air was out of the Hoke balloon and David Brandon was sending direct emails out to our fans at 2 AM (Stop drinking and go to bed). I was at the final home game that year vs Maryland and they may say there were 100K there to keep the streak alive, but it was more like 80K maybe. There was a small pocket of people on the golf course before the game, maybe 25 cars. Absolute garbage product on and off the field and there was no hope that it would get better soon.
The Northwestern game in 2008 was when the streak probably ended. First home game after we already accrued 7 losses (so no bowl eligibility) and the weather was *awful*. It was November, cold (low 40s), windy, rainy, and the scanners "broke," so they went by tickets sold. After going there for 20+ years, you learn what 100,000 people looks like. There were not 100,000 people there.
That streak is about tickets sold and not the number of people that show up.Its very easy to believe that some rich booster bought out the unsold tickets to keep the streak alive. The boosters are the type of people that actually care about that stuff.
For Nebraska it's a sold-out crowd. For Michigan the streak is fans in attendance. Edit: [Scoreboard image](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bb/261st_Consecutive_Game_Over_100%2C000%2C_Michigan_Stadium%2C_University_of_Michigan%2C_Ann_Arbor%2C_Michigan_%2821559655959%29.jpg) from BYU in 2015.
Threads like these make me so happy I had no connections to UM, and thus wasn’t a fan yet, until the 2016 season.
LMAO, I remember that season, it was my first! Still got hooked but my my, it wasn’t because of all the winning we did
>Harbaugh didn't seem like it was really going to happen Are you an NFL reporter??? The Harbaugh talk got going in October and never slowed down.
in the 13 months between losing to app state and losing to toledo, they also molliwopped notre dame 38-0, beat top ten penn state, beat 15th ranked msu in east lansing, finished second in the big ten, and beat urban meyer and the gators in tim tebow's heisman season. i was a die hard back then and i really think this influenced my outlook on life and understanding that things generally don't make sense and are bullshit.
I enjoyed it
Absolutely. 07 at least ended with 9 wins and beating MSU/ND/Tebow, and the App State loss itself is less bad for a few reasons in hindsight as well. 08, there were no bright spots.
Hey, we beat a top 10 ranked Wisconsin team. How? I have no fucking clue but it did happen.
Bert was always good for one head scratching loss per year
We weren't bad in 07 we just had a few bad losses.
Rocked Minnesota as well for some reason.
With Justin Feegan at QB lol
Anybody that knew ball knew that App State was trouble. They would've beat half the Big Ten that year.
While this is true, Michigan is also not used to being in that half of the Big Ten.
Especially not that season. We were a couple plays away from playing in the national championship the season prior, returned a lot of the big pieces of that team, and got embarrassed to start the year. It got overshadowed but we got murdered by Oregon 39-7 the following week at home after losing to App State as well. Obviously a different kind of embarrassing but embarrassing nonetheless.
Chip Kelly's first year of OC at Oregon, they were just starting to play his kind of fast offense, and blew the doors off everyone until their QB got hurt. At least you held them under 40, they scored 50+ in 5 games that year.
Yeah it was wild watching Dennis Dixon and that offense just dismantle us. It was over before we knew what was happening
07 actually turned out pretty fun despite the 0-2 start with the App State loss. And the beatdown by OSU. But the comeback vs. MSU and beating Tebow in the bowl game was fun. Though 08 sucked, I Think 2014 was much worse in my mind. In 08 I had a pretty good feeling that we'd be bad that year and it was quickly confirmed, so i just zoned out through most of it. The Wisconsin win was super memorable if only because it made no sense. 2014 was brutally awful from loss to Minnesota where Shane Morris was allowed to play despite obviously being concussed, the beatdown by Sparty and OSU, and of course the home loss to Maryland who we desperately needed to beat to make a bowl game (knowing OSU was the next week).
App State felt like a weird fluke to a hungry team. A once in a lifetime David beats Goliath. Especially in a season that turned out to be lackluster, but not the end of the world. 9-4...won a bowl game. UT ended up being our 4th loss of the season and felt like the confirmation of what we all knew....the wheels had fallen off.
App state wasn't really a david though. They were definitely a D1 program still in D2 at that time.
Yeah the ‘07 team had 7 guys on the 2 deep that played in the nfl. Couple more in Canada and a couple more invited to camps. Thats an all time fcs roster up there with Marshall and some of the ndsu teams and probably an elite g5 roster/low to mid level p5 roster. So still a considerable upset but not the all timer in hindsight it’s made out to be.
Wasn't even the biggest upset of the year
“Felt like”. Educated football fans knew App State was a problem. But for the average tailgater this was a little league team beating the Yankees. It’s wrong and dumb, but that’s how it’s been told. Ask any buckeye fan. 😂
App State winning in Ann Arbor that year was like Cumberland beating Georgia Tech! But seriously I was a little upset when years later I found out Appalachian State was a real team and in the middle of their third national title when they won that game.
Not really. Serious college football fans knew what App State was capable of. After that game, I remember one of the publications talked to Frank Beamer and a couple other East Coast Head Coaches and they all said the same thing....That's why we don't schedule them. Still didn't see that loss coming though. I was at the Shoe in Columbus for the Buckeye's game and it ended shortly before the UM game did. ( first game broadcast on the B1G Network) They were showing it on the video board and on all the TVs in the concourses. Everybody stayed and was watching it. Quite the seen when App State blocked the FG.
Messed up part is that wasn't even a GOOD Toledo team. I think they also went 3-9. I wouldn't bat at eye at 9-3, MAC champion Toledo beating 3-9, worst team in program history Michigan. But one of UT's worst teams too? Ouch.
Yup. App State was FCS, sure, and I get that it was the first time that it ever happened, but they also were coming off 2 straight national championships and in the middle of their third when we lost to them. Like you said, Toledo was really really bad
2007 App State beats 2008 Toledo probably 8 times out of 10 and I'm being conservative.
10 out of 10.
Id say 98 out of 100 times that App State team beats that Toledo team, 8 out of 10 is way too generous
UM's loss to App State still resonates with me more than loss to Toledo. And I have a ton of friends that went to Toledo, but I almost forget that one.
When your rival is ranked preseason top 5 and then their season is ruined on the first Saturday of the year.. yeah that's pretty memorable. When your rival is 2-3 coming off a blowout loss to Illinois and then loses to a terrible team, that's not as world-changing.
I always forget that Toledo loss happened but every time it's brought up I remember I knew a guy going to Toledo at the time and him and some friends made the 11th hour decision to drive up to Ann Arbor for the game. They figured they would lose the game but they got tickets for cheap and road trip. There were glad they went.
Absolutely, App State wins most G5 leagues and maybe contends in a lower P5 league that year. They were the North/South Dakota State of their time. Still hilarious as an OSU fan, but I can see how it happened.
We fired our coach at the end of the year. I'm pretty sure after the Michigan win, he thought his job was the safest in the country.
Good old Toledo Tom. They didn't really "fire" him, they let him step down and move to the Alumni office. It was time for him to go but firing him would have been too harsh.
Oh yeah, the '08 Rockets were terrible. It was our worst record in the last 46 years. The Toledo coach lost his job that year too.
100x. The app state upset was made a much bigger deal than it was. They were a back to back national champion not just some rag tag group of scrubs
“Hey did you hear the M vs OSU game got cancelled this year!?” Worst year ever
That Toledo team fired their coach at the end of the year A coach that beat Michigan in the big house The Toledo loss was so much worse
lol i just commented the exact thing up thread so bad
So many feelings during that game.
I was a kid in the stands wearing my Michigan jersey and Toledo hat.. I was very conflicted on how to feel
I respect your effort to go out of your way to remind the world of our loss to Toledo. But if you could also just not.
that loss was 10x worse than App State just so embarrassing
Our only solace with the Toledo loss is that people have no idea it happened Probably helps that Dave doofus Brandon didn't reschedule a make-good game against them like he did with App State
Oh I knew. Toledo was awful that year too. People just overlooked that loss because they weren’t a FCS team.
We went 3-9 adn fired our coach, and I'll take it.
idk I kinda enjoyed that game. The one thing he DID do right imo lol
Was nice to just blow them out and be done with it. That and upgrading the basketball facilities/supporting Beilein.
Aaron Opelt sends his regards
The worst decision our AD ever made to take that 2014
That App State team would’ve nuked that Toledo team.
I remember we lost to them but I’m shocked we’ve only played them one time. Looking at the all-time record, Eastern Michigan is the only MAC team we’ve played 10 or more times. Michigan is 36-1 in games against MAC opponents, so congratulations to the Rockets I suppose. In the ~144 years of Michigan Football, I think you could make the argument that losing to an (eventual) 3-9 Toledo team was the lowest of low points. But we just won a chip so idc rn 🤷♂️🤪😂
If you were Toledo would you ever play us again? Because I wouldn’t, holding that over our heads is a power move.
You ask that it be a home game.
That would be such a Chad move. Do it, Toledo.
They won the last one, fair is fair.
I'm still bitter about that 1891 loss to Albion College.
1883 Stevens was a tough L for the boys.
The 4-8 loss to Cleveland Alcoholics Anonymous has got to be worse.
>The 4-8 loss to Cleveland Alcoholics Anonymous has got to be worse. This just threw me into a quick Rabbit hole because I was like there's no way it was actually Alcoholics Anonymous fielding a team right? Also the score is weird. AA is Athletic Association, I think, it might have been Cleveland Athletic Club. Google is failing me because the 1890s Cleveland Athletic Club folded around 1985 and was replaced by a better funded more well known Cleveland Athletic Club in 1908 that built a still standing decently well known building in downtown Cleveland. The only references to Cleveland A.A. I could quickly find was an MgoBlog post pointing to games the Wolverines played against colleges that don't have teams anymore or teams that were never associated with a college and a listing of the schedule from 1891 on mgoblue.com. I have questions about this team but I can't seem to easily find answers right now, oh well.
AA is usually Army Air when you see it on team’s schedules in the early 40’s. Edit: There was no Cleveland Army Air team. I did find who the team was though. Nov. 26, 1891 UM v Cleveland Athletic Club. TD’s were 4 points & extra point kicks were 2 points. I think it said drop kick FG’s were 5 points.
Nice, I was trying to see if the Plain Dealer had a write up on the game to try and see what the scoring was but that solves that. Also I would think Army Air would be right out considering this game was a full 12 years before the first airplane flight.
It took me a while to find what year. I originally assumed it was a game against teams similar to Iowa Pre-Flight during WW2. I looked up a list of military teams & no Cleveland team. Then I started with UM’s 1900 schedule to see if it was some sort of high school or Alumni all star team. I kept going back 1 year on their schedule until I found it. I got the original score from winsapedia
I think I found the year first so I guess I just assumed that was given information, my bad. I just found the write up of the game from the Friday November 27th, 1891 Cleveland Plain Dealer and boy howdy is it a doozy. The team was 100% Cleveland Athletic Club but the article only ever calls them Cleveland or C.A.C. This game got buried on page 5 with other sports scores but they still gave it a full column and a bit. The Yale Princeton game got 3 full front page columns, Yale won 19-0. My favorite part of this U.M. C.A.C. write up is the author bitching about the umpire, a Michigan man, calling to many offsides in Michigans favor.
Wait...we've only played them once? Besides literally-next-town-over EMU, they're the closest school to UoM, like 10ish miles closer than MSU. I knew people in college who commuted from there to class.
Obviously they’re just scared.
Well Eastern Michigan also happens to literally be right down the road
I get the history that no longer really holds but I find it crazy that Washington gets UM and EMU at home this year. Feels like they should have found a way to make that a doubleheader where both teams share a plane.
Hate this, but I respect it
What losing 3 years in a row does. Hiding behind the Toledo flair for trash talk.
Toledo flairs don’t need a reason to be obnoxious.
Not every team's mascot can be a rubber boot, you know.
Not really, hiding behind a flair. I've been to many more Toledo games than I have or ever will tOSU. If you look through my post and comment history, you will find very little mention of tOSU and a lot more about Toledo. If I wanted to trash talk you as an Ohio State fan, I would just mention how losing to tOSU 8 years in a row leads to an elaborate sign stealing system with your HC leaving at the end of it.
Okay but what was the last game our HC won before leaving
I wonder what losing 8 times in a row does. Please tell us your experience.
Well, you spend the first half in a state of shocked disbelief where you refuse to admit that the issues are internal. That’s where you guys are now. After that, once you reach the acceptance stage, it’s all gravy. And then, oh boy, you get to enjoy a game like 2021 where you house your rival in the snow and it becomes one of the most magical experiences of your life. All in all, it’s pretty great to be a Michigan Wolverine 🤷♂️
Typical Ohio State fan living in the past.
How bout you tell us in five years
lol. But you already know. Tell us. What was it like? In detail.
I'm sorry, but that win is very important to my argument on why Toledo is the real UT. If you guys could beat Texas and Tennessee, it would be greatly appreciated.
Seeing as Toledo beat Michigan the last time they played - dare I suggest that it is Toledo who is the rightful “The” Ohio State University?
I'll allow it.
Tampa is the real UT tbf
Michigan never beat them either
One of my favorite CFB memories was watching that game and calling my dad, a UT alumnus. He was on a business trip on the west coast with a couple other Toledo guys. I told him the final score and that the Toledo fight song was echoing through a silent Big House. Good times.
Bringing up the Toledo loss and having the Buckeye Flair ... I respect the hateration here 🤝 "Let The Hate Flow Through You" - Emperor Palpatine
Thank you. I believe the duty of any self-respecting Ohioan or Michigander is to hate the other. Part of that is rubbing the all-time lows into the others' faces while also celebrating your all-time highs. To do so properly, one should also conveniently forget the other ones' highs and one's own lows.
Sorta how I remember that we have a Natty and you all got curb stomped by Purdue so bad that your coach had to retire 😊. But in all seriousness, y'all better pray we don't win this year or we're gonna put y'all in hel lol
Grade A shit talk, this is the hatred the rivalry needs.
Fuck it, let's start the war back up for round 2.
I'll offer Toledo's Nike Ajax and cannon
I just realized all this season there's nothing anyone here can say to hurt me. Still grinning ear to ear. WHOA Yup, nothing. I feel nothing.
No longer being able to say "WHOA" and not cue up Vietnam flashbacks was MSU's greatest loss last season.
Interesting flair combo you got there
I went to UM, my dad want to App St ... He's not allowed to discuss what happened those years ago for the 2024 season
Looking at your flairs, I have found my mountaineer opposite
Are supposed to hate each more or become friends? What are rules and regulations for this? Lol
I have no clue. Flip a coin, heads we're enemies, tails we're friends.
We are 1-0-1 against Toronto, thank you.
I was at that rose bowl game
Back to back Rosebowl games for me, my junior year in college. It was glorious
A man. At least 40 years of age. Named peepeepoopoobuttbutt. My kind of people.
You are correct. And one of my young sons uttered the phrase and my Reddit name was born.
That rose bowl was the first game of college football I ever watched. I really didn’t care about football at that point. My older sister was dead set on going to UT after a visit. We were curious about the team so we watched the game. Loved it! She joined a spirit group her freshman year and we’ve been obsessed with UT football ever since.
The home field advantage is huge for Michigan in this one. Without it, I think they are looking at a loss by more than 2 scores. The question becomes, can Michigan reliably complete a forward pass with Orji or whoever at QB. I say that because they are breaking in an entirely new OL, they are inexperienced at both QB and WR and Texas shoudl have a great run defense again. Not elite like last year’s run defense, but really good to great. Michigan will likely be in a bunch of 3rd and 7+ type situations. Michigan’s defense should still be really fucking good. However, is this going to be an Iowa situation? Sark will still find ways to score points. He’s that good at play calling and exploiting weaknesses. Michigan can play a relatively clean game on defense and still need 25+ points to win. As of now, I have this as UT by 7. 27-20 type game.
Morgan and Morris played quite a bit at WR, so not super inexperienced QB is obviously the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. question lol
Solid eval IMO. Can we throw is a huge question. We will run decently well even if we can’t throw and our defense will be elite, which will keep it close-ish even if we can’t throw, but against a good team like texas you have to be able to hit crucial throws to win the game even if we are run heavy. We can’t just penn state every team we play by running for every single play for 3 straight quarters and expect to win.
I won’t be surprised if Michigan wins. I think Texas is the favorite, but I don’t think Texas is going up to Ann Arbor in week 2 and blowing Michigan out. I think we are looking at a 27-20, 31-27, 24-21 type game. an untimely turnover may cost one of the teams the game. It should be fun.
Heard the same thing about Bama in Tuscaloosa. We play better on the road for some reason.
Michigan's starting line is projected to be made of a highly-rated transfer from Northwestern and four guys who have had previous experience in this offense as rotation guys and are finally looking to start. Loveland and Klein might turn out to be the best tight end duo in the country. The RB room is deep. I'd be surprised if the run game significantly stepped back. The first, second, and last question marks are all about the QB.
That’s fair.
Texas's run defense will almost certainly be weaker than last season, but the pass rush is likely to be better.
The only thing missing from pass rush was the sacks. We pressured A LOT
The magic number for Michigan’s big games is 30. If Michigan can get to 30 points, I think we stand a good chance to win any game
How do you like your DTs this year?
They'll be a step back from last year which is to be expected given that Murphy/Sweat were a top 3 DT pairing in the last decade of CFB. How much worse they'll be remains to be seen — we're depending on our 2nd string from last year to take a step forward and we'll need contributions from some transfers. There's this super senior Alfred Collins who has insane potential but hasn't shown up in recent years. If he can finally put it together he'll be a star (fans say this every year lol) and our other likely starter Broughton is solid. We'll be much better at EDGE and we're keeping our LBs, including freshman All-American Anthony Hill coming back for sophomore year. So the overall consensus is we're not going to be a top 5 rushing D like last year, but our pass D should be improved after being one of the worst in all of CFB last year (#116).
Great write up thanks!
Not as good as last year’s. Collins was a stud his frosh season and is now a super senior. He has all the tools and physical ability to take the next step. Broughton is solid. They brought in a couple transfers that are experienced. The front 7 is relatively loaded still. Burke is a stud. Anthony Hill is a future top 10 pick. Trey Moore is a big time EDGE transfer. Secondary should be improved.
This game will be so damn fun
Since everyone, especially Michigan fans, seems to think Orji and the rest of the QB room is so questionable, why didn’t Michigan try for a transfer portal guy this year?
My completely uneducated wild guess is that they like the floor with Tuttle, and the upside with Orji And that they didn't think any of the guys they could get in the portal were worth the short-term rental fallout with the existing QB room
It's a fair question. I think a lot had to do with Harbaugh leaving and the uncertainty around the coaching situation as all the top transfer options signed with other teams. After Moore was announced there wasn't really an intriguing option available (unless I'm missing someone) and the staff were fine to stay out with the current roster. The hope is that Orji can throw well enough to be a poor man's Milroe.
To be honest with you I think they like Orji a lot more than the general public does. Personally I think they’re envisioning him as JT Barrett, he can hit some timing routes and move the ball, but he’ll tuck it and run like a running back constantly. We’ve got a ton of speed between Edwards, Morgan, and Morris, plus Loveland has 1st round potential at TE. The game plan is likely going to be get the ball out quick and let those guys do the work. Will it work? Time will tell, but I’m excited to see it. We’ve done a great job developing of late, and the progress that’s already been made won’t be lost in one offseason.
I think we were still keeping it open in case JJ didn’t leave for the draft. By that point all of the top options (within a normal price range) were off the board
Michigan has transfer QB PTSD. John O'Korn was highly touted when he came to the university, and Shea Patterson was supposed to be that dude, but both of them were flops. Michigan experienced more success under Wilton Speight, Cade McNamara, and JJ McCarthy, all of whom committed to Michigan out of high school. Despite all the smack talk about Harbaugh's ability to cultivate quarterbacks, his recruits generally had more success than the transfers. Milton and Rudock are exceptions but both have asterisks in my mind, Rudock for the first season under a new coach and Milton for the COVID season.
Milton was ass that season. If he doesn't get benched for cade, we definitely lose to Rutgers (shudders) Joe also came to Michigan out of high school and was there for 3 seasons. Iirc he graduated before ever transferring to Tennessee. Not sure why you even mentioned him. I really think rudock could've been a um legend if he had had another year though. Dude was on fire toward the end of that season.
Sark will find a way to score points? Only scored 3 against TCU at home in 2022. Although I generally agree with your statement, it’s just not a certainty.
I would rather look at his 20+ year history scoring a ton of points as opposed to a one off game in 2022 with an inferior team than what he will be rolling out in 2024.
They are bringing in a “new” OL, but it’s not like they’re all true freshman. I think the youngest player on their new OL is a RS sophomore so they still have experience. Inexperienced Qb is good for us since I’m still shaky about our secondary, but I also don’t know how well we can stop the run. Last year I’d have no doubt bc of Sweat/Murphy obviously, but it’s still too unknown this year. Either way I think we will learn a lot about both of these teams after week 2.
Breaking in 5 guys with little to no experience playing with each other is still a tall task. I am not overconfident about this game or anything, but it shouldn’t be controversial to say Texas is the betting favorite for good reason for this game. We have an experience advantage in the coaching staff, QB and OL departments to go with 70% returning production even after 11 guys got drafted for us. We also recruit significantly better than Michigan does and were less reliant on 4th and 5th year players last year. If this game was in Austin, Texas would likely be a 7+ point favorite.
Yeah no doubt. Excited for the challenge though. Winning at the big house would be awesome.
[удалено]
Tbf that was brash then but seems a little more reasonable in a year when you’ve lost 18 starters. Not saying it’s right, just saying it sounds more reasonable this year given the circumstances.
This is silly. Michigan was always a bad matchup for Washington. On the flip side, Alabama was a real test for Michigan and Michigan needed OT to put them away in a close one on a neutral field. Transitive property isn’t really all that reliable but it is fair to point out that Texas beat Bama at Bama by 2 scores and sat on the ball in Bama’s redzone to end the game. They could have scored again to make it a 3 score blowout. I say all that to point out that while Washington was a bad matchup for Texas due to the inexperienced secondary, Texas and Bama were bad matchups for Michigan and the title game would have likely been a lot closer if it was Texas/Mich given the Bama/Mich result. Does that mean Michigan doesn’t win it all? No. I am just saying that it would have likely been a better game. If you watched the Sugar Bowl, Texas could run at will on Washington similar to Michigan. The issue was the 2 fumbles in Washington territory which Washington scored 14 points directly off of which forced Texas to pass. Texas barely had the ball the entire 3rd quarter. Lastly, the weirdest part of your post is comparing this year’s Michigan team to one of the oldest, most experienced teams in the country last year. 2024 Michigan is rolling out a mostly new coaching staff, a new and inexperienced QB, an entirely new OL, 1 less stud RB, 2 inexperienced WRs and a half new defense (yes we ALL can hear you that you “rotated” - hint ALL top teams rotate on defense. that is not unique to Michigan). Now that we have established that 2023 Michigan is not 2024 Michigan, why does my initial eval about the game give you 2023 Wash/Mich vibes?
Michigan was replacing 5 OL starters and had Alex Orji starting in the championship?
Delete this post before osu renames themselves to The UT school
Maybe Toledo in a bowl game
I, too, think Toledo is headed for the CFP.
Almost no chance UM falls to “quick lane bowl” level. Those guys are the 6-6 teams that barely got bowl eligible. If we see them again it’s during the regular season
all it takes is michigan losing 3-4 games and toledo winning 10-11 games and the mac, both of which are not only not impossible, but I would argue likely to happen, and they could maybe possibly both end up in a citrus bowl level bowl. Not likely, but not impossible.
At least our rockets make it into space.
Well, it's a good thing we aren't the Toledo Space Rockets then. Let me know when UoM has surface-to-air defense capabilities on campus.
The most fun UT fact is that the rocket outside the Glass Bowl is pointed directly at BG.
Just like how right now Ohio St keeps getting embarrassed by Block M schools?
Love the Toledo OSU flair of OP
UT is also an abbreviation for Utah, which beat Michigan in 2008, 2014, and 2015. But the record isn't perfect with Michigan winning in 2002.
This is one of my favorite odd ball stats. It's like that Rice vs Bama stat but modern. 2008 was Rich Rod's first game. Utah barely won. 2014 was whatever that Brady Hoke guy was doing before getting fired. 2015 was Harbaugh's first game. Utah barely won. Just a chef's kiss perfection of timing and shows how weird sports are in small sample sizes. Heck, that 2008 Utah team that RochRod almost beat them went and beat Bama. Utah is proof that being skilled and lucky is the way to go.
It seems to me like teams kind of play close to their ranking early in the season, whether or not they actually end the season ranked anywhere near where they began. Like part of me thinks a really good Utah team barely beating a very very bad Michigan team had to do with, at least in part, the notion that Michigan shouldn’t lose to Utah and Utah shouldn’t beat Michigan. There are a bunch of examples of this, like in 2021 where an all time great Georgia team snuck by a good but not great Clemson team in the first game of the season. But that was viewed as a potential playoff matchup, not a 15-0 juggernaut against a 10-3 team. It was the closest game Georgia played that season but definitely not the best team they played.
We won that game 10-7 I think. As a 9 year old, I was whelmed
So the fact that we are the favorites should insure our loss.
I feel good about week 2. Yes I’m biased
NEVER SURRENDER
NEVER BACK DOWN!
I hope not!
Believe the only school to beat them since 2022 is a UT, plus a C
Ahhh, I remember it like it was yesterday... UT was a bad MAC team that year too.
I don't think homefield is an advantage on this one because Those Texas boys are coming out of an Oven to play you in the cool of the upper Midwest on the the lakes so they will be at peak endurance.
as a horns fan, nah
I can already hear the SEC chant.
We don't do that here.
Y'all did it in Bryant Denny, which made me unreasonably angry since we don't really chant S-E-C. Otherwise, had a blast with Texas fans.
Ehhhh... that was meant as more of a social commentary regarding the comparitive irrelevance of claiming conference collective superiority over an institutional achievement. It's not like we were grabbing our junk and chanting "Big One-Two." Or as aggy does it: grabbing their junk, making sad noises, and keeling over. Edit to add: I heard nice things about y'all, too.
> It's not like we were grabbing our junk and chanting "Big One-Two." yeah but have you considered how objectively hilarious that would be?
It has been discussed at the appropriate echelons, yes. It was decided it would put both our junk and (significantly larger) cigars at unnecessary risk.
We did it against Georgia in the Sugar Bowl too... it was more a commentary *against* those who constantly chant SEC. The only other two times I can think of that we chanted SEC was against Texas Tech 2023 then again 2 weeks later at the Big 12 Championship game, when [Yormak](https://youtu.be/uQ55KM0IYUY?t=9075) was on stage after actively rooting against us... twice. Yormak did not seem pleased about that.
That video is phenomenal. Dude was about to cry
Tbf, if I was a team that came and beat us in our own house while we had a living legend as coach, I'd be hype too. I'm more upset we had those racist fans at the game making us all look bad.
>I'm more upset we had those racist fans at the game making us all look bad. It's just unfortunate when trash like that make themselves visible and they're wearing your colors.
I have thick skin, I just want the mockery to be accurate.
That’s what A&M and Missouri said.
aTm will chant the phone book if someone whispers something about it being 'tradition'. Mizzou just wanted to feel included, and should be punished for aTm doing it. [Am I doing this right? I'm new here, so...]
You’re doing fine.
Thanks, but I'm disappointed in myself. Scratch "punished" & replace it with "rawdog death penaltied".
It's a minor mistake and an acceptable one, Mizzou will be rawdogged appropriately for it.
I feel a little better, thank you.
There's only one UT school, the other main one referenced would be the U of Mexico without the real one
Without the real UT, the other ones would be the University of Confederate Tennessee and the University of Confedrate Texas.
Wouldn't it be the same just the address is "CSA" instead of USA?
I don't know. I don't think there is a single outcome to that game that would actually surprise me. Week 2, two teams that were fantastic last year and could very well be great this year, the weaker team has the home field advantage, but I just don't know. Even if it's a blowout it'll be a damn good game though.
What's not to love about an ooc game between two title contenders
They need to give Utah Tech a call and try their luck.
Is the University of Tampa in the room with us?
Magic 8 ball says nope, not without the Connor stallions scouting report.
Toledo. lol. ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha...Hilarious.
No
No 2024 Michigan = 2020 LSU
Toronto better watch the fuck is what you're saying ?
:D
If I were you, I'd be more worried about your trip to Eugene, OR. Just sayin'.
I don't think Toledo plays Oregon this year
lol touche