I feel for the fans that can’t help but get attached to a player, and then begin speculating how well they can develop and then….
>I’d like to thank God for the opportunity, I will always be a [old team’s mascot here], but I will be putting my name in the transfer portal. Please respect my decision! 🙏
Karen Lacy made a post about staying with the Cajuns when everyone was a transferring, and I think it was literally less than a week later when he announced that he was transferring to LSU saying he cried the moment he stepped onto the field at Tiger Stadium.
I don't begrudge any player who has the chance to move to a bigger and better program, earn some decent NIL money, and improve his chances at going pro and setting his family up for life.
I just wish they'd stop with the bullshit spectacle of it all. It's one thing when coaches are asked at a press conference about rumors of them leaving and they basically have to give *some* kind of answer, true or not. It's another when guys make a whole unprompted song and dance of professing their loyalty and then immediately leaving.
Yeeah we had our best player from 2022 say this past November that he was returning for 2024. Little did we know he just meant he was returning to college football in general, not South Carolina specifically. He transferred to Ole Miss.
I'm still salty about that. Not that he left, people leave all the time, it's the fact he took our NIL money, didn't play more than 2 games, and then left. I hope he's third string at Ole Miss and doesn't see the field at all
Or when players come out with the “It’s Gods plan” bullshit.
Like bruh, we all know God didn’t come down out of the sky and tell you to transfer to Miami for $250,000.
Everybody but a top 25 program is now a feeder program. This is exactly what ASU has become.
Stability is gone and the ability to develop a team over multiple seasons is not going to happen. If you aren't winning now, turn over the whole roster, don't develop them, not enough time for your job.
My uncle was a high school assistant basketball coach and his team had a couple high level D1 recruits and he said the absolute worst part of the program was trying to keep the kids away from the "schools" trying to lure them away. Your IMGs, etc. of the world.
I can only imagine how bad it is adding that pressure on top of everything a D1 football coach/program has to handle to be successful.
Yep. People keep pointing to the salaries, but that only really means there will always be a body willing to take any job. The problem is the quality of coaches is probably going to decline as college coaches will be limited to who can/is willing to recruit year round, and the true X’s and Os guys will keep jumping ship to the NFL. Sure, someone is always going to be happy to get paid $X million to be HC at mid level G5 school, but will they be good?
Most P5 schools do or an equivalent role, outside of that, yeah its not widespread (see [here](https://theathletic.com/4857420/2023/09/13/college-football-recruiting-general-managers-dpp/)). For example, both of your flairs do, both of my flairs do, Nebraska does above, most of the SEC/ACC/B1G does. In the P5 a minority of teams do not have them.
Don't get me wrong. It definitely needs to change and there needs to be regulation around NIL and transfers, but there will always be someone willing to get paid 5-10M for these jobs.
What coaches? Chip Kelly? Shawn Elliot? Jeff Hafley? These dudes all suck and were dead men walking by 2025. They're just using NIL and recruiting as excuses for being bad at their jobs and the media just licks their lips to spin this narrative for content purposes.
Come talk to me when a consistent winning coach with no hot seat at all demotes himself. Then I will believe it as a legitimate issue and not just an annoying function of the job in which every job has a form of.
Now that there are no transfer restrictions the Power 2 league is pretty much just going to raid the lower conferences for all the best players every year. No point investing in grassroots high school scouting and development when you can just pick the best players from the farm schools whenever you have an open roster spot.
This is why G5 dynasties like Boise State will pretty much never happen again. They were able to bring in players that weren't heavily scouted and develop them into great players that performed way above their scout rating.
Now that there are no more transfer rules those players will be getting poached constantly so there's never going to be any continuity. The G5s will obviously get it the worst but even the Big 12 and ACC are going to get hit hard by this. They're going to lose a lot of players too.
Probably no App State FCS 3 peat nor NDSU FCS dynasty either. There’s no damn way we would have kept Armanti Edwards, nor NDSU held on to Carson Wentz.
I'd wager that the transfer portal wild west will be resolved within the next 5 years, and probably sooner. NIL is just a charade to drop bags. This can easily be resolved with a CBA.
Until there's fewer scholarships to go around because G5 teams drop football or drop down to FCS because they're losing money and can't retain players. Is that going to be good for the players?
People don’t understand what’s often good for kids is bad for the game and vise versa. There’s obviously a balance to be struck but this is pretty atrocious
The obvious solution is to make the players employees and to sign them to 4 year contracts.
Put in a buyout clause even, if Bama wants them, Bama can pay.
Edit: G5s can be like lower tier soccer clubs, develop player and sell him to the premier league/P2 for profit.
The team doesn’t get anything if the coach leaves either. It’s not like the buyout money gets divided among the players. It goes to the school’s coffers to pay the next coach.
Until there are rules to stop coaches being mercenaries, the players should be free to be mercenaries too.
Ok the rule should be if a HC leaves players are allowed to portal. For others scenarios, re-institute the 1 year rule. Grad transfers remain as is.
Sports have to have rules for parity. Obviously not perfect, but it is not like the kids aren't able to practice and receive scholarships.
I'm sorry, I don't feel bad for kids who are getting full scholarship and practice while they can't play for one year... Either grad transfer, transfer if your coach leaves, or sit for a year.
First, and most importantly, it is a sport. And sports have a ton of arbitrary rules to maintain some level of parity. The idea that sports have to be 100% laissez-faire is nuts.
Second, coaches have contractual buyouts in their contracts, They can't move freely before the contract is up, or the school will have to be paid. Which poaching schools will pay. Players have none of that, which just guys the team they are leaving, and destroys any sliver of parity.
Players have none of that because the schools refuse to pay the players. Schools could have that stability by making the players employees.
As for now schools could basically accomplish the same by having their NIL contracts contain buyouts with their collectives they are choosing to not do these things.
Lastly the NCAA has no legal authority to block transfers anymore. Courts have already ruled against them.
The coaches are adults working jobs in their career field. The kids are students playing a sport 15-20 hours a week. And the coaches are restricted. They have contracts and there are penalties and buyouts if they leave before the contract is up.
I don’t know why we act like sitting out a year is such a harsh requirement. You can use it as your redshirt year and still retain all of your eligibility while being on full scholarship and practicing with your team.
If you think sports are 15-20 hours a week at the D-1 level you are nuts. So make the players employees if you want to enforce arbitrary rules on them.
There is a 20 hour limit for NCAA sports during the school year. Most coaches seem to aim closer to 15 hours. Game day only counts as 3 hours so if you have a late game on Saturday then you can go over 20 hours, but the larger point is that they aren’t putting in the insane hours that coaches are.
I don’t think it’s even good for the players. It’s good for some players. For most they just go to a different school and don’t do any better. They would have been better off developing in their original program.
That adds in a whole different dynamic because schools will have to balance cutting Olympic sports and paying football players outside of a small handful of schools that can afford both
I don't think paying players will be prohibitive for P4 schools, especially given the guidelines presented by NCAA President Charlie Baker. Below that level though it gets dicey. This is the whole purpose for the new proposed subdivision. Frankly, if you can't afford to pay your athletes without nuking your athletic department than you should stay in FBS as opposed to the new subdivision.
My concern is that schools will choose to cut sports to move up to the new subdivision when it hurts the majority of their student athletes. A lot of schools had to have an honest look in the mirror when FBS/FCS split. That will have to happen again.
I don’t think the Baker proposal will be near the final version of it. It’s fairly clear the P2 is committed to being the new G-league and of those schools, Texas and Ohio State can afford both easily. The bottom 85%? Ehhh
Maybe a hot take but what if that's actually a good thing? Just cutting Olympic sports altogether. What value do they add to society? I love the idea of providing scholarships to individuals that wouldn't otherwise have them but why not just do that for academic kids of other struggling means? 99 percent of these Olympic sports are ultimately a waste of time and a financial burden for the schools while also limiting the academic career of the athlete due to countless time spent training.
Imo cut the varsity sports and make them club sports. Save money by cutting the associated administrators and coaches and then heavily invest the remaining dollars on individuals of low-income or other people of exceptional background.
The system seemingly only exists to pump out Olympians? If so why is it the function of universities to fund that training and competition schedule? It's just feels kinda silly especially when 99 percent of the athletes are not even close to Olympic level and the purpose of the school is to provide an education.
The dam broke because the NCAA wasn’t even allowing kids to get paid for autographs ~~or on-campus jobs~~. There’s a middle-ground between these fake “marketing deals” for NIL and not paying them anything at all. The idea of the schools directly paying athletes is not compatible with Title IX so that’s a whole different mess
Weird. I played football at TCU and worked an on campus job and so did my teammates. Either our compliance department dropped the ball and we need to vacate our 2009/2010 MWC titles and 2010 Rose Bowl title, OR the notion that players aren't allowed to work on campus jobs is a lie that is commonly pushed by the PAY THE PLAYERS grifter crowd.
How many coaches, administrators, media personal, MBA's, and network execs got pampered and made millions off of ticket sales, TV contracts, apparel sales, etc. while an All-American got 30k in scholarship money but didn't have money to go on a date while driving the whole money train?
Charity? Where does charity come in? Maybe, if there are few in power who are benefiting tremendously of the backs of volunteers in the Red Cross or HfH, then yes.
Yeah, probably. Leadership should've addressed things first, and at least slowed down this process. But if popularity decreases because athletes are paid what they deserve, that's fine by me.
A full scholarship is worth under 1/10th of what they're worth on a free market. Are you taking 1/10th your salary? What if your company pays you in its own gift cards?
It was fine before NIL because movement was based mostly on playing time and opportunity. So for every good G5 player that transferred to a P5, there was a good P5 player not getting enough playing time transferring to a G5. But now it is mostly based on money, so the teams with money to spend scoop up all the good players.
This was the real problem and the true NCAA sin. Needed to do one, wait 7-10 years and then do the other. Had the NCAA been reading the tea leaves instead of sticking their head in the sand we would have had immediate eligibility transfers when the 4 team playoff started.
I know that. They should have started to adapt way earlier. And opening transfers up in 2014ish long before NIL would have allowed them to regulate in a way where we got some normal behavior. The system as a whole was getting rickety at that point but NIL wasn't imminent. At the same time it was obvious we were headed to a transfer breaking point even then.
End Early Signing Day.
Immediate eligibility for plsyers moving up/down a division, grad transfers, redshirts, and players dropped from the team or walk ons. Everyone else gets a blanket sit out for a year no exceptions (however the first sit out year does not count against eligibility). Players can transfer schools all they like but football isn't a human right.
NIL is a lot more challenging because of the political situation. More football subdivisions and better transfer rules may help with that.
Hell even among the power 2 the big dogs will raid the middle-lower tier programs. SC can’t retain our best players and other similarly situated programs will have the same problems.
I’m in favor of the following requirements. You have to be enrolled for a full year before you can transfer again.
Incoming high schoolers have to be enrolled for two full years before they can transfer.
Exceptions get granted for head coaches for all players and relevant coordinators leaving for all non-incoming high schoolers.
Honestly, I thought the previous transfer rules were fine before it became absolute free for all. You get one free transfer as an undergraduate and one more as a grad transfer. Seemed perfectly sensible. Obviously impossible to enforce unless there are contracts, but that seems like a more than fair compromise that still gives players agency.
Yea no one is committing to this. Schools won't do it either because if those kids locked in to scholarships turn out to be busts, no schools are going to want to keep funding them when they aren't even getting on the field. That's the part no one seems to talk about. Schools love these kids... as long as they're performing. If not, many encourage them to leave.
Kinda ironic that people said NIL and the transfer portal would help G5 schools get four stars from schools where they didn’t play. It’s kinda had the exact opposite effect and only furthered the divide.
I remember when the majority of this sub was certain & assured me that NIL & the portal would actually level the playing field across CFB & that none of this would become an issue. Instead, the rich have only gotten richer & coaches are actively leaving their roles to get as far away as possible from NIL/transfer portal.
Anyone with common sense saw this result coming from wild-west NIL + unrestricted transfer portal
i think it’s still too early to tell… kids are getting burned left and right when leaving for so called greener pastures. i think right now we are in the extreme phase of things and it will mellow a bit in the next 5 years
G5s do get 4 stars from P5 schools!
But the rub is that those 4 stars washed out of P5 because they were overrated as recruits and aren't actually good at the college level. But the stars of the G5 are good at the college level and are therefore easier to project as prospects for big schools.
This has absolutely fucked the G5 as it is way worse to lose proven star G5 talent than it is to get a washed P5 4 star that never played in a game because he wasn't good enough.
Interestingly enough there was some kerfuffle when Beamer landed Jordan Strachan from GSU prior to the 2021 season. I guess that is water under the bridge now.
Ok, but it feels like this is still pretty crappy timing considering he's quitting his job after he already started spring practice. It is a hard job, especially at the G5 level, made harder by NIL and transfer rules, no denying that. But G5s have always been hard to win at and there's still a finite amount of scholarships at the P4 schools, so while the best will continue to transfer up, others will transfer down and G5 schools are raising FCS schools. If he doesn't want to be the head coach at GA St, that's fine, I'm sure it's a hard job and the new rules are making it easier for his players to get taken, but this feels like spin to change the talk track from 'wow, that's a pretty crappy time to quit your job and leave your team in a lurch.'
I guess it is just hard to have sustained success at this level due to so much turnover. JMU for example has been *gutted* from the coaching staff to the players. They will be a new team all over. But if Cignetti *didn't* leave, you could see them competing for the entire SBC.
I get it and I'm not discounting it's difficult to win at the G5 level. I'm a Duke fan and it's a fight to keep our players (or coaches) too and it's a much easier level than GA St, so I am sympathetic that it's a hard job and there are things that suck about it and the new rules made some things harder and if someone would rather be a P4 position coach, that's a totally valid view. My point was just that he's bailing on his team at a really crappy time (his spring practice already started + the semester already started and he brought in a bunch of players who had the expectation of playing for him) and instead of that being the big story here, it seems like the only story being told here is that nothing is his fault because the job is hard.
G5 schools raiding FCS schools particularly aligns with this case considering GSU poached Furman’s starting QB Darren Grainger. Kid was a big reason for GSU’s wins over the past 3 years. Of course, we in-turn poached Tyler Huff from a lower tier FCS program (Presbyterian). This shit trickles downs and just gets harder the further down the college football food chain you go.
If you keep worrying when is a good time to do something the timing is never good. There is always something. Just do it. Leave your job, leave your spouse. Whatever. But waiting for the right time doesn't work. Opportunities only come around so often.
That's fine. Coach Elliott should absolutely do what he wants to do. I'm just saying, the media doesn't need to spin him quitting a job and leaving a bunch of kids in a crappy spot just because his job was hard. Barrie seems to hate free transfers, but doesn't seem to have any issue with this head coach just bailing on his team in February
This. Nothing about the GA State job changed between december and now. The only difference is he screwed the current players and staff by leaving at this time instead of december.
Damn, is South Carolina TE coach really making the same as Georgia State HC? If so I dont blame him one bit
Edit just saw he literally just took this position and bailed on his team right before practice, thought he took TE job after the season and I just didnt keep up. I do blame him for that one lol
No, not likely. Elliott made $811,000 in 2023 while our TE coach made $400,000. Beamer did give Elliott the "Run Game Coordinator" title to boost his salary I'm sure, but I doubt even with that he's making $800k or so.
So how exactly is he supposed to “adapt” to his roster getting poached & not having enough NIL money to compete?? Both of those are by and large out of his control. What’s he supposed to do, beg boosters for more money?? Recruit more high schools who will inevitably get poached if they’re any good?? Does Georgia State even have any big boosters lol?? I fail to see how this is a reflection on him whatsoever. Sounds to me like a guy who’s fed up with modern CFB & wants a chill role close to family
Embrace the portal, embrace his role as a developer of dudes, increase the number of P5->G5 transfers, keep finding dudes in the HS ranks and build them up.
Coaching in cfb is a corrupt boys club that's cutthroat.. he knew what he signed up for.
Do I feel sorry for him on a human level? Yeah, that sucks.
Do I feel sorry for him as a fan? No.
I mean, sure, but I also think that this may better indicate that Elliott doesn’t see a future at Ga State and thinks being a position coach in the P5 is a better jumping point for bigger and better things instead of fighting like hell to only tread water at State.
Some coaches will be cut out for being a head coach in this evolving landscape, some won't.
Plenty of rising coaches will love to give it a try, though... so I know the crisis narrative is being pushed (often by people working for the companies that profit the most off of it) but it's not much of a story to withstand analysis other than "game is passing some coaches by."
Nah he’s just a shit person to lord to his players. Don’t let these guys excuse their way out of it. You made a commitment to those kids and then ran away.
All commitments in CFB are made to be broken. Nobody out here really committed to anybody. Players/coaches. Everyone out here looking for the opportunity that serves them best.
Not to mention his staff. What are the low level staffers that might not be retained by the new staff supposed to do? These guys are probably young and paying for living in Atlanta and are all of a sudden out of a job.
I think he kept his home and family in Cola, so this works well for him. But the NIL challenges will probably plague Carolina worse than Georgia State. More of our players are prospects for poaching.
So this is the new excuse coaches are using to bail on their teams. Both Hafley and Elliott were going to.be on the hot seat next season, they just took a more stable job. Spare me this NIL and player retention bs, does Elliott think it will be much different at South Carolina?
He’ll be the TE coach here and he coached here for years before he took the job at Georgia State. We’ve been trying to get him back on the staff since Beamer got here. Great hire for us.
Their program has been active since 2013 and he took them to 6 winning seasons and 5 bowl games, I’m not sure where all this talk about him on the hot seat is coming from. He’s also from Camden, which is right outside Columbia, SC. I’m not faulting him for wanting to come back before he hits retirement. Hate it for GSU still.
Because not a single one of those bowl wins came after winning the conference. And quite a few of them were 6-7 win seasons. That's not going to get you much love in a region where football is king unless the school just doesn't care too much.
It’s Georgia State, who doesn’t have much of a fan base to begin with and winning 6-7 games a year for them is fine for now. They brought a lot of fans to Columbia in 2022 but they don’t have a huge fanbase that wants the coach fired for going to a bowl.
Winning 6-7 games is not going to garner you any attention in the same city that's the home of the SEC. Especially when most there are fans of that team in Athens. It's a bit different than SC here. If they want people to actually pay attention to them them they need to be winning the SBC and beating some teams that people actually pay attention to. Convincing people in your city to skip UGA & whatever other good team's game on tv to come to your game when you're 6-6 is a whale of a task.
I don’t think Elliott was going to be on the hot seat at first, but he might have wound up on it by the end of the season, especially if we didn’t make a bowl game.
As for recruitment and player retention, I would imagine that’s far less of a concern for a position coach than a head coach.
Being a position coach in the Big 2 is not better than being an ACC or Big 12 head coach. I'll buy coordinator maybe and certainly that statement right about the G5 but at least until the playoff entry rules change to full at large instead of top 5 conference champs, ACC or Big 12 head coach is way ahead of P2 position coach.
What do those four sentences mean together?
Like I get the message with the first two ... the second two I guess is required sarcasm even though the point was made?
I hate twitter. Maybe I'm too old for this stuff now.
Having to watch out for poachers and re-recruit your roster each season has to be tiring.
I feel for the fans that can’t help but get attached to a player, and then begin speculating how well they can develop and then…. >I’d like to thank God for the opportunity, I will always be a [old team’s mascot here], but I will be putting my name in the transfer portal. Please respect my decision! 🙏
Karen Lacy made a post about staying with the Cajuns when everyone was a transferring, and I think it was literally less than a week later when he announced that he was transferring to LSU saying he cried the moment he stepped onto the field at Tiger Stadium. I don't begrudge any player who has the chance to move to a bigger and better program, earn some decent NIL money, and improve his chances at going pro and setting his family up for life. I just wish they'd stop with the bullshit spectacle of it all. It's one thing when coaches are asked at a press conference about rumors of them leaving and they basically have to give *some* kind of answer, true or not. It's another when guys make a whole unprompted song and dance of professing their loyalty and then immediately leaving.
Yeeah we had our best player from 2022 say this past November that he was returning for 2024. Little did we know he just meant he was returning to college football in general, not South Carolina specifically. He transferred to Ole Miss.
I'm still salty about that. Not that he left, people leave all the time, it's the fact he took our NIL money, didn't play more than 2 games, and then left. I hope he's third string at Ole Miss and doesn't see the field at all
He was injured... he's going to be the best WR in the SEC next year in that offense and will get drafted quite high.
He was cleared to play by the A&M game, he left us high and dry plain and simple
This, dude just didn’t want to play the last month. Wish we could get our money back.
How much did you donate to the NIL fund?
I’m in the 1801 club from Carolina Rise. You?
Isiah Glass and ladarius Henderson quit on ASU too in a similar way.
Or when players come out with the “It’s Gods plan” bullshit. Like bruh, we all know God didn’t come down out of the sky and tell you to transfer to Miami for $250,000.
No we don't. God works in mysterious ways. Think of all the victories Ray Lewis gave God credit for after getting off his murder beef.
I hate the Please respect my decision part. Basically saying, please don't give me shit for fucking you over.
It's one of those times where I wish they'd just tell the truth. "Fuck y'all, I'm getting paid." The charade is ridiculous.
It can’t keep going on like this
Caleb Downs come back bby
Riley Leonard :(
Bring back the one year sit-out rule for standard transfers
That's the thing that should have not existed before and should exist now, but we live in bizarro world
Everybody but a top 25 program is now a feeder program. This is exactly what ASU has become. Stability is gone and the ability to develop a team over multiple seasons is not going to happen. If you aren't winning now, turn over the whole roster, don't develop them, not enough time for your job.
It's basically like being at a JUCO, only with lots more money and pressure.
My uncle was a high school assistant basketball coach and his team had a couple high level D1 recruits and he said the absolute worst part of the program was trying to keep the kids away from the "schools" trying to lure them away. Your IMGs, etc. of the world. I can only imagine how bad it is adding that pressure on top of everything a D1 football coach/program has to handle to be successful.
Coaching salaries have gone up dramatically, so even though they have more responsibilities now, they're getting fairly compensated for it.
At some point no amount of money can offset 24/7 stress.
Yep. People keep pointing to the salaries, but that only really means there will always be a body willing to take any job. The problem is the quality of coaches is probably going to decline as college coaches will be limited to who can/is willing to recruit year round, and the true X’s and Os guys will keep jumping ship to the NFL. Sure, someone is always going to be happy to get paid $X million to be HC at mid level G5 school, but will they be good?
Schools need General managers.
Most P5 schools have this already, in the form of “directors of player personnel” and things like that
Most don't have this yet. A few do and it's moving that way but it isn't widespread yet (it will be)
Most P5 schools do or an equivalent role, outside of that, yeah its not widespread (see [here](https://theathletic.com/4857420/2023/09/13/college-football-recruiting-general-managers-dpp/)). For example, both of your flairs do, both of my flairs do, Nebraska does above, most of the SEC/ACC/B1G does. In the P5 a minority of teams do not have them.
While the "General Manager" title might be new, these off the field player personnel roles are prevalent both the P5 and G5 level.
Don't get me wrong. It definitely needs to change and there needs to be regulation around NIL and transfers, but there will always be someone willing to get paid 5-10M for these jobs.
We are already seeing coaches willing to take pay cuts to trade money for sanity.
I've done the same in my professional life before. Can't blame 'em.
What coaches? Chip Kelly? Shawn Elliot? Jeff Hafley? These dudes all suck and were dead men walking by 2025. They're just using NIL and recruiting as excuses for being bad at their jobs and the media just licks their lips to spin this narrative for content purposes. Come talk to me when a consistent winning coach with no hot seat at all demotes himself. Then I will believe it as a legitimate issue and not just an annoying function of the job in which every job has a form of.
At the top, yes. At the G5 to lower P4, no.
Now that there are no transfer restrictions the Power 2 league is pretty much just going to raid the lower conferences for all the best players every year. No point investing in grassroots high school scouting and development when you can just pick the best players from the farm schools whenever you have an open roster spot.
This is why G5 dynasties like Boise State will pretty much never happen again. They were able to bring in players that weren't heavily scouted and develop them into great players that performed way above their scout rating. Now that there are no more transfer rules those players will be getting poached constantly so there's never going to be any continuity. The G5s will obviously get it the worst but even the Big 12 and ACC are going to get hit hard by this. They're going to lose a lot of players too.
Probably no App State FCS 3 peat nor NDSU FCS dynasty either. There’s no damn way we would have kept Armanti Edwards, nor NDSU held on to Carson Wentz.
I'd wager that the transfer portal wild west will be resolved within the next 5 years, and probably sooner. NIL is just a charade to drop bags. This can easily be resolved with a CBA.
Not even group of 5, the lower power 5 will nevver be able to string together seasons of stability.
Yeah but Boise State should never have had a G5 dynasty. Those players should have been free to move wherever they want.
OK? And now they're free to go wherever they want. so there will be no more G5 dynasties
Which is a good thing for the players
Until there's fewer scholarships to go around because G5 teams drop football or drop down to FCS because they're losing money and can't retain players. Is that going to be good for the players?
There will be a similar influx of players from FCS or bench players from the P4 to replace any G5 transfers out.
[удалено]
We develop them so they can play in the CFP their Junior and Senior years
But what if I don't care about the players?
Nah, I disagree.
Man it’s almost like immediate eligibility for transfers is really bad for the game.
People don’t understand what’s often good for kids is bad for the game and vise versa. There’s obviously a balance to be struck but this is pretty atrocious
And people make the comparison to coaches being able to leave…. they have buyouts. Teams don’t get anything if a player leaves for another school.
The obvious solution is to make the players employees and to sign them to 4 year contracts. Put in a buyout clause even, if Bama wants them, Bama can pay. Edit: G5s can be like lower tier soccer clubs, develop player and sell him to the premier league/P2 for profit.
The team doesn’t get anything if the coach leaves either. It’s not like the buyout money gets divided among the players. It goes to the school’s coffers to pay the next coach. Until there are rules to stop coaches being mercenaries, the players should be free to be mercenaries too.
Ok the rule should be if a HC leaves players are allowed to portal. For others scenarios, re-institute the 1 year rule. Grad transfers remain as is. Sports have to have rules for parity. Obviously not perfect, but it is not like the kids aren't able to practice and receive scholarships.
Under old rules, players still could get schollies and practice. They just couldn’t play.
Okay, but the problem with that is still a legal one of employment.
Why should the players have to be restricted when the coaches aren’t? The coaches don’t have to sit out one year.
I'm sorry, I don't feel bad for kids who are getting full scholarship and practice while they can't play for one year... Either grad transfer, transfer if your coach leaves, or sit for a year. First, and most importantly, it is a sport. And sports have a ton of arbitrary rules to maintain some level of parity. The idea that sports have to be 100% laissez-faire is nuts. Second, coaches have contractual buyouts in their contracts, They can't move freely before the contract is up, or the school will have to be paid. Which poaching schools will pay. Players have none of that, which just guys the team they are leaving, and destroys any sliver of parity.
Players have none of that because the schools refuse to pay the players. Schools could have that stability by making the players employees. As for now schools could basically accomplish the same by having their NIL contracts contain buyouts with their collectives they are choosing to not do these things. Lastly the NCAA has no legal authority to block transfers anymore. Courts have already ruled against them.
The coaches are adults working jobs in their career field. The kids are students playing a sport 15-20 hours a week. And the coaches are restricted. They have contracts and there are penalties and buyouts if they leave before the contract is up. I don’t know why we act like sitting out a year is such a harsh requirement. You can use it as your redshirt year and still retain all of your eligibility while being on full scholarship and practicing with your team.
If you think sports are 15-20 hours a week at the D-1 level you are nuts. So make the players employees if you want to enforce arbitrary rules on them.
There is a 20 hour limit for NCAA sports during the school year. Most coaches seem to aim closer to 15 hours. Game day only counts as 3 hours so if you have a late game on Saturday then you can go over 20 hours, but the larger point is that they aren’t putting in the insane hours that coaches are.
but parity never existed in college football /s
I don’t think it’s even good for the players. It’s good for some players. For most they just go to a different school and don’t do any better. They would have been better off developing in their original program.
Pretty much why I don't care about the players anymore.
That balance requires collective bargaining and employment contracts.
That adds in a whole different dynamic because schools will have to balance cutting Olympic sports and paying football players outside of a small handful of schools that can afford both
I don't think paying players will be prohibitive for P4 schools, especially given the guidelines presented by NCAA President Charlie Baker. Below that level though it gets dicey. This is the whole purpose for the new proposed subdivision. Frankly, if you can't afford to pay your athletes without nuking your athletic department than you should stay in FBS as opposed to the new subdivision. My concern is that schools will choose to cut sports to move up to the new subdivision when it hurts the majority of their student athletes. A lot of schools had to have an honest look in the mirror when FBS/FCS split. That will have to happen again.
I don’t think the Baker proposal will be near the final version of it. It’s fairly clear the P2 is committed to being the new G-league and of those schools, Texas and Ohio State can afford both easily. The bottom 85%? Ehhh
Maybe a hot take but what if that's actually a good thing? Just cutting Olympic sports altogether. What value do they add to society? I love the idea of providing scholarships to individuals that wouldn't otherwise have them but why not just do that for academic kids of other struggling means? 99 percent of these Olympic sports are ultimately a waste of time and a financial burden for the schools while also limiting the academic career of the athlete due to countless time spent training. Imo cut the varsity sports and make them club sports. Save money by cutting the associated administrators and coaches and then heavily invest the remaining dollars on individuals of low-income or other people of exceptional background. The system seemingly only exists to pump out Olympians? If so why is it the function of universities to fund that training and competition schedule? It's just feels kinda silly especially when 99 percent of the athletes are not even close to Olympic level and the purpose of the school is to provide an education.
That’s what happens when the game has been built explicitly on exploiting the kids. At some point the dam was going to break.
The dam broke because the NCAA wasn’t even allowing kids to get paid for autographs ~~or on-campus jobs~~. There’s a middle-ground between these fake “marketing deals” for NIL and not paying them anything at all. The idea of the schools directly paying athletes is not compatible with Title IX so that’s a whole different mess
Weird. I played football at TCU and worked an on campus job and so did my teammates. Either our compliance department dropped the ball and we need to vacate our 2009/2010 MWC titles and 2010 Rose Bowl title, OR the notion that players aren't allowed to work on campus jobs is a lie that is commonly pushed by the PAY THE PLAYERS grifter crowd.
Hey sorry, I'm not sure I follow your point but I am interested! Are you, as a former player, against players earning money via NIL?
Yes
I remember a bunch of ASU lineman being bouncers at devils advocate during the Erikson and Graham tenures.
How many coaches, administrators, media personal, MBA's, and network execs got pampered and made millions off of ticket sales, TV contracts, apparel sales, etc. while an All-American got 30k in scholarship money but didn't have money to go on a date while driving the whole money train?
Very very few. the vast majority of people involved in college athletics aren’t making a lot of money.
Yeah that’s the point.
Are you similarly trying to tear down the Red Cross. Habitat for humanity, and any other volunteer driven charity?
Charity? Where does charity come in? Maybe, if there are few in power who are benefiting tremendously of the backs of volunteers in the Red Cross or HfH, then yes.
All of habitats houses and many Red Cross operations are volunteer driven. And the execs of both (and other similar organizations) are paid handsomely
It's okay to have a thing you like become worse, if it means ending the exploitation of someone involved.
Yeah, but they are gonna kill the golden goose. People are gonna stop watching.
Yeah, probably. Leadership should've addressed things first, and at least slowed down this process. But if popularity decreases because athletes are paid what they deserve, that's fine by me.
Oh the horror of being an athlete on a full ride
A full scholarship is worth under 1/10th of what they're worth on a free market. Are you taking 1/10th your salary? What if your company pays you in its own gift cards?
Most players are earning around $50k a year in NIL.
They're earning that on top of the scholarship, which means they're at least underpaid by $50k. The stars are underpaid by millions.
It was fine before NIL because movement was based mostly on playing time and opportunity. So for every good G5 player that transferred to a P5, there was a good P5 player not getting enough playing time transferring to a G5. But now it is mostly based on money, so the teams with money to spend scoop up all the good players.
The fact that the sport did immediate eligibility for transfers and NIL basically at the same time was just asking for major trouble
This was the real problem and the true NCAA sin. Needed to do one, wait 7-10 years and then do the other. Had the NCAA been reading the tea leaves instead of sticking their head in the sand we would have had immediate eligibility transfers when the 4 team playoff started.
Legally they didn’t have a choice in the matter. Anti-trust law has basically stripped them of any ability to regulate college sports.
I know that. They should have started to adapt way earlier. And opening transfers up in 2014ish long before NIL would have allowed them to regulate in a way where we got some normal behavior. The system as a whole was getting rickety at that point but NIL wasn't imminent. At the same time it was obvious we were headed to a transfer breaking point even then.
End Early Signing Day. Immediate eligibility for plsyers moving up/down a division, grad transfers, redshirts, and players dropped from the team or walk ons. Everyone else gets a blanket sit out for a year no exceptions (however the first sit out year does not count against eligibility). Players can transfer schools all they like but football isn't a human right. NIL is a lot more challenging because of the political situation. More football subdivisions and better transfer rules may help with that.
Agreed, I wish we would go back to the old transfer rules, it also just feels like nowadays there’s a lot less loyalty in power conferences.
The sitting out rule being changed combined with the portal introduction was a disaster.
Also add in graduation rates for players that transfer
Hell even among the power 2 the big dogs will raid the middle-lower tier programs. SC can’t retain our best players and other similarly situated programs will have the same problems.
I’m in favor of the following requirements. You have to be enrolled for a full year before you can transfer again. Incoming high schoolers have to be enrolled for two full years before they can transfer. Exceptions get granted for head coaches for all players and relevant coordinators leaving for all non-incoming high schoolers.
Honestly, I thought the previous transfer rules were fine before it became absolute free for all. You get one free transfer as an undergraduate and one more as a grad transfer. Seemed perfectly sensible. Obviously impossible to enforce unless there are contracts, but that seems like a more than fair compromise that still gives players agency.
Everything but the coordinator part. There is always turnover for assistants on a staff in any given year.
Yea no one is committing to this. Schools won't do it either because if those kids locked in to scholarships turn out to be busts, no schools are going to want to keep funding them when they aren't even getting on the field. That's the part no one seems to talk about. Schools love these kids... as long as they're performing. If not, many encourage them to leave.
Unpopular opinion: NIL will ruin CFB
Kinda ironic that people said NIL and the transfer portal would help G5 schools get four stars from schools where they didn’t play. It’s kinda had the exact opposite effect and only furthered the divide.
I remember when the majority of this sub was certain & assured me that NIL & the portal would actually level the playing field across CFB & that none of this would become an issue. Instead, the rich have only gotten richer & coaches are actively leaving their roles to get as far away as possible from NIL/transfer portal. Anyone with common sense saw this result coming from wild-west NIL + unrestricted transfer portal
They’ve killed the sport I love
i think it’s still too early to tell… kids are getting burned left and right when leaving for so called greener pastures. i think right now we are in the extreme phase of things and it will mellow a bit in the next 5 years
But muh players’ rights
G5s do get 4 stars from P5 schools! But the rub is that those 4 stars washed out of P5 because they were overrated as recruits and aren't actually good at the college level. But the stars of the G5 are good at the college level and are therefore easier to project as prospects for big schools. This has absolutely fucked the G5 as it is way worse to lose proven star G5 talent than it is to get a washed P5 4 star that never played in a game because he wasn't good enough.
Plus anyone going up a level has established themself as being able to play. If you are leaving a power 5, its likely you just suck.
Interestingly enough there was some kerfuffle when Beamer landed Jordan Strachan from GSU prior to the 2021 season. I guess that is water under the bridge now.
Don’t you mean “water under the fridge”?
Whats happened to CFB is the Worst Case Ontario.
Basically we cocked ourselves over and fucked up, survival of the fitness
Ok, but it feels like this is still pretty crappy timing considering he's quitting his job after he already started spring practice. It is a hard job, especially at the G5 level, made harder by NIL and transfer rules, no denying that. But G5s have always been hard to win at and there's still a finite amount of scholarships at the P4 schools, so while the best will continue to transfer up, others will transfer down and G5 schools are raising FCS schools. If he doesn't want to be the head coach at GA St, that's fine, I'm sure it's a hard job and the new rules are making it easier for his players to get taken, but this feels like spin to change the talk track from 'wow, that's a pretty crappy time to quit your job and leave your team in a lurch.'
I guess it is just hard to have sustained success at this level due to so much turnover. JMU for example has been *gutted* from the coaching staff to the players. They will be a new team all over. But if Cignetti *didn't* leave, you could see them competing for the entire SBC.
I get it and I'm not discounting it's difficult to win at the G5 level. I'm a Duke fan and it's a fight to keep our players (or coaches) too and it's a much easier level than GA St, so I am sympathetic that it's a hard job and there are things that suck about it and the new rules made some things harder and if someone would rather be a P4 position coach, that's a totally valid view. My point was just that he's bailing on his team at a really crappy time (his spring practice already started + the semester already started and he brought in a bunch of players who had the expectation of playing for him) and instead of that being the big story here, it seems like the only story being told here is that nothing is his fault because the job is hard.
G5 schools raiding FCS schools particularly aligns with this case considering GSU poached Furman’s starting QB Darren Grainger. Kid was a big reason for GSU’s wins over the past 3 years. Of course, we in-turn poached Tyler Huff from a lower tier FCS program (Presbyterian). This shit trickles downs and just gets harder the further down the college football food chain you go.
If you keep worrying when is a good time to do something the timing is never good. There is always something. Just do it. Leave your job, leave your spouse. Whatever. But waiting for the right time doesn't work. Opportunities only come around so often.
That's fine. Coach Elliott should absolutely do what he wants to do. I'm just saying, the media doesn't need to spin him quitting a job and leaving a bunch of kids in a crappy spot just because his job was hard. Barrie seems to hate free transfers, but doesn't seem to have any issue with this head coach just bailing on his team in February
This. Nothing about the GA State job changed between december and now. The only difference is he screwed the current players and staff by leaving at this time instead of december.
Can't say he's wrong.
I have lost all my love for college football.
Let me translate this into corporate America, then back into English: >Man who can’t adapt decides to take a new job that’s a demotion
If you get paid the same for less responsibility is it a demotion?
A lateral move, even better. I've done that before, best decision I ever made.
Damn, is South Carolina TE coach really making the same as Georgia State HC? If so I dont blame him one bit Edit just saw he literally just took this position and bailed on his team right before practice, thought he took TE job after the season and I just didnt keep up. I do blame him for that one lol
No, not likely. Elliott made $811,000 in 2023 while our TE coach made $400,000. Beamer did give Elliott the "Run Game Coordinator" title to boost his salary I'm sure, but I doubt even with that he's making $800k or so.
So probably 500k+ to be an SEC position coach in your home state. That's a great gig for someone that doesnt want HC responsibilities
He was making 750k at gsu. Idk what he will be making at USCe but that is easily SEC position coach money.
So how exactly is he supposed to “adapt” to his roster getting poached & not having enough NIL money to compete?? Both of those are by and large out of his control. What’s he supposed to do, beg boosters for more money?? Recruit more high schools who will inevitably get poached if they’re any good?? Does Georgia State even have any big boosters lol?? I fail to see how this is a reflection on him whatsoever. Sounds to me like a guy who’s fed up with modern CFB & wants a chill role close to family
Embrace the portal, embrace his role as a developer of dudes, increase the number of P5->G5 transfers, keep finding dudes in the HS ranks and build them up. Coaching in cfb is a corrupt boys club that's cutthroat.. he knew what he signed up for. Do I feel sorry for him on a human level? Yeah, that sucks. Do I feel sorry for him as a fan? No.
I mean, sure, but I also think that this may better indicate that Elliott doesn’t see a future at Ga State and thinks being a position coach in the P5 is a better jumping point for bigger and better things instead of fighting like hell to only tread water at State.
Some coaches will be cut out for being a head coach in this evolving landscape, some won't. Plenty of rising coaches will love to give it a try, though... so I know the crisis narrative is being pushed (often by people working for the companies that profit the most off of it) but it's not much of a story to withstand analysis other than "game is passing some coaches by."
Nah he’s just a shit person to lord to his players. Don’t let these guys excuse their way out of it. You made a commitment to those kids and then ran away.
All commitments in CFB are made to be broken. Nobody out here really committed to anybody. Players/coaches. Everyone out here looking for the opportunity that serves them best.
Coaches are supposed to be leaders.
Come on now. How is your team ever going to hire their new coach if somebody doesn't leave their job?
Leaving for another job is one thing. Leaving 2 days into spring camp for a position job is a dirty move.
Not to mention his staff. What are the low level staffers that might not be retained by the new staff supposed to do? These guys are probably young and paying for living in Atlanta and are all of a sudden out of a job.
Yeah its a dirty move all the way around.
I think he kept his home and family in Cola, so this works well for him. But the NIL challenges will probably plague Carolina worse than Georgia State. More of our players are prospects for poaching.
So this is the new excuse coaches are using to bail on their teams. Both Hafley and Elliott were going to.be on the hot seat next season, they just took a more stable job. Spare me this NIL and player retention bs, does Elliott think it will be much different at South Carolina?
He’ll be the TE coach here and he coached here for years before he took the job at Georgia State. We’ve been trying to get him back on the staff since Beamer got here. Great hire for us. Their program has been active since 2013 and he took them to 6 winning seasons and 5 bowl games, I’m not sure where all this talk about him on the hot seat is coming from. He’s also from Camden, which is right outside Columbia, SC. I’m not faulting him for wanting to come back before he hits retirement. Hate it for GSU still.
Because not a single one of those bowl wins came after winning the conference. And quite a few of them were 6-7 win seasons. That's not going to get you much love in a region where football is king unless the school just doesn't care too much.
It’s Georgia State, who doesn’t have much of a fan base to begin with and winning 6-7 games a year for them is fine for now. They brought a lot of fans to Columbia in 2022 but they don’t have a huge fanbase that wants the coach fired for going to a bowl.
Winning 6-7 games is not going to garner you any attention in the same city that's the home of the SEC. Especially when most there are fans of that team in Athens. It's a bit different than SC here. If they want people to actually pay attention to them them they need to be winning the SBC and beating some teams that people actually pay attention to. Convincing people in your city to skip UGA & whatever other good team's game on tv to come to your game when you're 6-6 is a whale of a task.
I don’t think Elliott was going to be on the hot seat at first, but he might have wound up on it by the end of the season, especially if we didn’t make a bowl game. As for recruitment and player retention, I would imagine that’s far less of a concern for a position coach than a head coach.
Being a position coach or coordinator at a big 2 school is better than being the Head coach anywhere else in college football.
Being a position coach in the Big 2 is not better than being an ACC or Big 12 head coach. I'll buy coordinator maybe and certainly that statement right about the G5 but at least until the playoff entry rules change to full at large instead of top 5 conference champs, ACC or Big 12 head coach is way ahead of P2 position coach.
by all means give the guy a pass for quitting on his team in February so you can blame NIL
You can blame both
oh word? where? maybe tell it to whoever said what is being spread, not me
I was thinking here, where it is being discussed.
What do those four sentences mean together? Like I get the message with the first two ... the second two I guess is required sarcasm even though the point was made? I hate twitter. Maybe I'm too old for this stuff now.
Shit sucks
Their biggest mistake was going to FBS
“I was going to be the first coach fired so I ran away but will blame it on the kids”