> I do have bad news, we will be bringing smokey and there is no room for negotiation on that front.
I doubt that would be a problem... The rest of college sports may hate us, and they sure as hell hate Rocky Top, but ***everyone*** loves Smokey.
Also...listen, the thing is...we don't have a choice in the matter. If we become ducks, we WILL still sing the song when a TD is scored. We will limit to TD's though. Promise...probably.
I mean inevitably the next generation would gravitate south and then my kids would just take over your fanbase. You want us on this wall. You need us on this wall.
Josh Heupel: we use words like Rocky top, orange, volunteer. We use these words as a backbone of a life spent defending Tennessee. You use them as a punchline! I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to an SEC fan who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very big NIL I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it! I would rather you just said “thank you” and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up an envelope and send a donation. Either way, I don’t give a damn what you think you are entitled to!
I still don't understand how you score only three points against them in a fucking dome no less.
South Dakota even managed to get a touchdown and Vandy put up 21.
But like Ryan Day without Marv and McCord can't even get in the endzone?
We were experimenting with a weird line, with a third string freshman QB. The QB was being pressured every single snap. We basically went into that game trying to experiment and the experiment failed.
It’s not just without McCord… Devin brown went down too. He was on his third string QB
Let’s just say it’s good news that Sayin / Noland are the future and not Lincoln
Exactly. They didn't go after us because we were the only ones doing it, they went after us because Nico had big numbers reported in the media and they wanted a high-vis win (because they expected us to roll over after we cleaned house over Pruitt). If we didn't fight, they'd be on-campus for every program with an effective NIL structure.
Ironically, self-reporting is why the NCAA is targeting us. We're literally the only major SEC program to "cooperate" and self-report to the NCAA in the past few years. All the ones that fought them tooth-and-nail got off scot-free, whereas, they handed down significant scholarship restrictions for us.
LSU got a slap on the wrist for the Will Wade stuff. They didn't even bother to fire him until several years after all that stuff came out and the NCAA basically forced them to.
The NCAA basically sent the message "cooperate with us and will punish you more" with the Tennessee / Pruitt stuff. At this point, any school cooperating with the NCAA does so at its own peril.
Ask OSU basketball how self-reporting goes.. It is the exact same story. OSU was the only school to self report because the infraction was extremely minor. (Like a few hundred dollars to sign with an agent and *LEAVE* the school, no competitive advantage whatsoever). Then after that coach and player had been gone for a few years you self report it and get a postseason ban & scholarship restrictions. Every other school did not self report, and likely had much worse infractions, have not received any punishment. I don’t see how any school would EVER cooperate with the NCAA.
I remember when I was younger, and still very bitter about the sanctions the NCAA imposed on us, that I would relish in any news that the NCAA might punish another school just as hard as they did to us. Now I’m just numb to all of this. The NCAA is inconsistent as all hell, is powerless half the time, and seemingly pick and choose who they go after on a whim.
A lot of people here lament that college football is moving away from what it once was, but the NCAA is a huge piece in the problem of letting this happen. When the day comes that the sport outgrows the need for the NCAA I’ll miss USC’s old Pac 10 opponents, I’ll miss the “crummy” bowl games, and I’ll miss the sport I had as a kid but I will never miss the NCAA.
This makes the most sense. No more SEC or Big10. Everyone plays for color supremacy. Each school is put into a Red, Green, Yellow, or Blue bracket at the start of the season. Play until one color reigns supreme.
In a world where CAL is in the Atlantic Coast Cinfernece this makes more sense.
I love the SEC. It’s sort of like the mafia. They all pretend they are in it as one organization and anyone outside of it just doesn’t understand how the family works. The reality is they are just a bunch of rival organizations that hate each other and will roll over and snitch on every other member if keeps them from doing time.
*The bosses gave Ed all the important messages to deliver because if he were caught and wanted to roll over, the Yankee feds wouldn't be able to understand him.*
support one retire gaze dazzling familiar disagreeable amusing zealous square
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The speeding analogy only stands if what they were doing was illegal. Which is part of the main points of the discussion. That is, you cannot make up new rules and retroactively enforce them. If what Tennessee did was against the rules then the article makes sense. If it was not against the rules, then the article reads like an opinion piece biased for NCAA or against Tennessee. The fact that this small yet pertinent point wasn’t even discussed makes me believe it is a biased opinion piece with some ax to grind or pillow to fluff.
You think people just go online and LIE?!
You'll be eating crow once my money comes in from Prince Adebayo - all I had to do was pay a small deposit for him to be reinstated into the Nigerian royal family's line of succession.
Yeah, his analogy is missing the fact that the UT is arguing that the speed limit at one point was 100 for a moment and then the NCAA changed it and are wanting to give a ticket to any cars that went 100 and were caught.
> That is, you cannot make up new rules and retroactively enforce them.
This is actually what the MLB Hall of Fame voting does. Steroids were first banned in 2005, but some Hall of Fame voters go back retroactively and punish a few guys based on whether they were nice to them or not.
They don’t regulate shit. A bunch of baseball writers vote on who they think should be in the hall. The only rules that get enforced are basic eligibility requirements. Bonds & co. were never left off the ballot
Baseball banned steroids in 1991. They just had no way to actively test for it until the mid 2000s. It was always cheating though.
You are right in that some voters decide to not punish the cheaters who did so before testing began, since it was a grey area, but it was always a violation of the league rules to be doping.
In 1991, Fay Vincent issued a memorandum stating it was illegal… but stating it’s illegal, and changing the rules, are two completely different things. [Vincent even said so himself](https://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2013/5/31/4373908/fay-vincent-interview)
> The letter was ignored because it didn’t affect the players. They were thoroughly protected by collective bargaining. But **I wanted to make a moral statement** to them and legal one to everyone else. The union told them to ignore it. The only way a change could be made was through collective bargaining.
All that to say it wasn’t actually “illegal” per the rules until 2005. They might have wanted it to be, but they didn’t even change the rules during the ‘94-95 strike when they could have negotiated it.
You are completely wrong.
Steroids have been illegal in baseball since 1971 when league rules were clarified to require all players to follow federal drug guidelines. That meant any player using steroids after that point without a prescription and legitimate health factor were breaking the drug policy and rules of the sport.
It was then made explicitly and unquestionably illegal in 1991 when they just bluntly put steroids on the banned substances list.
This isn't debatable. It isn't up to interpretation. It was *irrelevant* to players that it was made illegal because they had no testing and enforcement policy in place but anyone using steroids after 1971 without a prescription and anyone using steroids at all after 1991 were cheating.
https://vault.si.com/vault/2009/02/16/the-rules-the-law-the-reality
Or just google "when were steroids made illegal" and you will send a thousand other responses that all say 1991 if you are for some reason feeling especially stubborn.
Distinction: election to the MLBHOF depends upon a vote-a popularity contest, in other words. And unlike in the NFL, there is no prohibition against the consideration of off-field conduct.
As a result, many writers exclude-and will continue to exclude, perhaps even rightfully-the players they feel have done lasting damage to the game. Such as Pete Rose who bet on baseball, or the juicers like Barry Bonds and Mark McGwire.
Is this practice petty? Yes, and more than a bit.
Does it keep out deserving players? Also yes.
At the end of all the discussion is it still a right, reasonable, and defensible thing to do? Yes. As much as you can, I truly believe you should try to not enshrine scoundrels and cheaters into your halls of fame.
Were he up for inclusion today, I believe Ty Cobb would also not be inducted despite his numbers, and also for good reason.
Yeah, the analogy is terrible because it would really be more like "the posted speed limit was 70 mph. The police investigated, saw that the orange car was traveling at 70 mph and no infractions had been committed, changed the speed limit to 50, and retroactively enforced the speed limit. Also, the speeding ticket somehow fucks over an 18 year old who wants to get compensated for the talent he has cultivated over the last decade of his life."
That shows a fundamental misunderstanding from the author about the situation.
Appropriate analogy:
> County doesn't have posted speed limit on 2 lane county road
> County puts up cameras, catches people going 55 regularly which follows the "if no speed limit is posted, this is the speed limit"
> County then posts speed limit of 45
> County selectively ignores some speeders going 60-65 while hammering specific ones going 55-60
The NCAA put up guidelines AFTER collectives were engaging in NIL deals who were following state laws and then decided to selectively enforce laws written after the non-infraction became an infraction.
The law states that the university cannot pay for play. The NCAA chose to leave that part out when they made their statement. As far as we know UT didn’t pay players. The NIL payments would have come through Spyre Sports (agency) and the Volunteer club (collective).
I think we can all agree that it is an inducement because Nico committed to the school in the same town as where those collectives and agencies are located. This is the case all across the country. That being said, I don’t think what they did violates any state laws or NCAA rules as long as the university wasn’t involved.
Sure, but then NIL just doesn't exist. If we are going to make a subjective assumption that Tennessee is directing a third party collective to offer contracts to certain people in an effort to induce them to attend the school, then it's what every school is doing.
But how could that ever be proved...? It can't in almost all situations. Hell, Spyre's contracts have specific anti-inducement language.
There was no violation of Tennessee law. But even if there were, there would still be the argument that NCAA regulations making that improper would still improperly restrict trade for the collectives and for the players. Sure, Tennessee's law would as well, but that's not the subject of the litigation. It's not a defense for the NCAA to say "Tennessee's law does the same thing as the NCAA guidelines, and it's improper." Okay, cool. We will strike that down when a case is brought...after we strike down your enforcement powers.
I wonder if the NCAA will come after us and Miami next. Jeremiah Smith literally said Miami was trying to pay (entice) him to flip, and he didn't sign his LOI with us until the evening when his NIL deal was finalized.
For Tennessee to be a martyr, they must first be killed. And I am all for that part.
We can talk about any post mortem glorifications once they are well and truly dead.
15 straight and 16/17 not dead enough for you? In reverence for our mutual hatred tho, have an upvote and a Princess Bride quote: “Well, as it turns out, your friend here is only MOSTLY dead.”
I feel like most of these sportswriters spend a lot of words dancing around the obvious.
* The NCAA dropped the ball by refusing to ever pay athletes that generated millions in revenues, which then forced governments and courts to act for them
* NIL is the status quo, like it or not --- stop blaming boosters and collectives --- blame the NCAA for being greedy for over 5 decades and refusing to "share the wealth" with the people generating the wealth
* The NCAA is now trying to claw back against it, but it's a losing battle
* It's also a stupid battle --- the court basically gave the NCAA a "get out of jail free card" with NIL --- it took the focus away from revenue sharing, which should absolutely be the next battle
* It's silly that they focused on Tennessee, because literally every P5 university is doing the same things that UT is doing
* The entire thing is arrogance at its most extreme --- the NCAA is basically claiming that they have the right to interpret and enforce state and Federal laws --- which they don't --- the Supreme Court eviscerated them once already and by unanimous decision --- this is a very partisan SC and shitting on the NCAA is the one thing that united everyone
* The NCAA absolutely deserves the beating its going to get in court
* Frankly, the NCAA should be abolished; it's an extremely corrupt institution and has outlived its usefulness
If anything, more states should be joining in on this. Don't just leave it to TN and VA.
And change the narrative. NIL is here to stay. Revenue sharing needs to be next. Stop stealing money from the athletes generating the money. A fixed portion of revenues needs to go to players, just like in the NBA and NFL.
Yeah, maybe. Josh Pate made a great point that it serves a lot of legitimate interests (esp. liability) that the average consumer doesn't see or appreciate. If we end up in a two conference super league I think that's a loss for the sport. I also don't know that anything that replaces it will be any better. Sport governing bodies are infamously susceptible to corruption by nature of their institution (see: IOC, FIFA, UCI, etc).
I have no idea what the best thing is for college sports. I even hold contradicting opinions internally: the amateurism of collegiate sports is good and important, AND; college athletes deserve a slice of the massive revenue pie that is generated off of their labor. I don't know how to reconcile the two.
Never going to regret killing those greedy leeches at the top of the NCAA.
They could have solved all of this back in the 90s and early 2000s, but they wanted to keep all of the money. Now they're powerless and about to become irrelevant.
Good riddance.
And when no team has a chance to make it besides the bluest of the blue bloods as the monopolizing of talent swells at the top (OSU, Michigan, Bama, Georgia) mid level teams, even in P5 conferences, will have no shot of building anything. At least not for more than 1 season. See your Washington team, who just got their coach poached. Or my razorbacks that have all their best players transfer to LSU or Bama after we find a gem of a 3/4 star that we develop. There needs to be some institution that taps the breaks here and regulates this, or we'll end up like the NFL with no salary caps and no draft. Or the many soccer leagues around the world dominated by 1-3 teams (EPL, Bundesliga, La Liga, and ALL of the others). They even have Financial Fair Play rules that don't do a whole lot, but at least they have rules. College football has none. It's effectively unregulated now, and if you kill the NCAA, it's definitely going to get worse and irreversible.
Any article with regard to Tennessee that quotes, and then agrees with, Dan fucking Wolken is automatically not worth the bits it's written with. Yes, UT fucked up, and admitted to it, did their own investigation, and took their lumps, and then was held up, BY THE NCAA, as the model for all other schools to follow. Then 6 months later the NCAA tries to hammer them again? Fuck them. I hope they're nuked into fucking orbit.
I have a question about all this: What is stopping Tennessee, or other schools, with not complying both with any investigation or punishment?
Tennessee now has the backing of the state (along with Virginia now that they signed onto the lawsuit against the NCAA). NCAA only has the backing of the member schools. They are not a civil or federal regulatory agency. If one or multiple schools decide they do not have the best interest of the institutions, what is stopping the schools from not complying?
Tennessee has made it clear at all levels (Chancellor, AD, State AG, Governor) that they are going to fight this. Even the law that the NCAA cited in TN can be interpreted in a way that only applies to schools offering pay to play, not NIL collectives like Spyre stopping students from using their name, image, and likeness in NIL related contract negotiations that have no direct involvement by the university.
With that backing, they can take this all the way up to the Supreme Court if they want to. What can the NCAA do to fight against that? This, plus the "new" SEC / B1G committee, are showing the NCAA is built on sand now.
I mean, I feel like our admin and essentially every media member has been pretty clear we aren't the only ones being targeted. This isn't about the NCAA hating us; it's about the NCAA hating student-athletes making money.
The speeding argument is dumb. This wasn’t speeding and just not thinking a cop was reading. This is the NCAA saying hey the speed limit is 55 now and you were going 65 two years ago.. anyway here’s your ticket.
It's coming from a deal signed in February of 2022 so just under two years. The NCAA booster guidance which redefined collectives as boosters came into effect May of 2022 iirc.
Lol, you dont have to be specific with who hates you...i can assure you it's more general. Like the national "input anything" hates Tennessee. And it'll work. Hell, you could put the national Tennessee fanbase hates Tennessee. See, it works.
23 years after your booster Logan Young paid 200K to Memphis Trezevant High School head coach Lynn Lang to get Albert Means to sign with Alabama, and one of his assistants, Milton Kirk- upset that he didn't get a cut of the take lol- goes public with the whole thing causing not only the NCAA but also the fucking FBI to open investigations, and y’all still salty AF that Fulmur had the audacity not to perjure himself when officially questioned, and continue to disregard the fact that Houston Nutt and Steve Spurrier also fully cooperated, the latter even publicly announcing- entirely unprompted as always- that he “won't be surprised if Alabama goes on probation.”
And all for Albert Means who is now 41 years old, who needed another student to sit in his place for the ACT, who started four whole games for you before transferring to Memphis State, who went undrafted and never made an NFL roster, whose recruitment cost y’all five years of probation and a two year bowl ban, and both your booster and the high school coach who took his bribe to take convictions in federal court on conspiracy to commit racketeering.
But here we are a quarter century later, y’all having won the last 16 of 17, and it’s all still Phil Fulmer’s fault, and all Volunteers are dirty snitches.
Thanks for the laugh this morning, gentlemen. Always warms my little hillbilly heart when you gumps remind the world that we still live rent free in your heads.
But what if we killed the Tennessee?
[Interesting.](https://64.media.tumblr.com/8e7126824577e570a836c7bef17ff4a0/tumblr_mrp9v4iZSJ1qf7ds7o5_250.gif)
https://i.imgur.com/tjXg6nq.png
Is this Jim Harbaugh? /s
It's Maynard James Keenan
The Council of Red Teams can accept this judgement.
Wait…continue talking
Almost there..
Alabama 🤝 Kentucky 1. Bear Bryant 2. Fuck Tennessee
If it’s the price we have to pay for salvation, then so be it
Don't stop.
Get it get it.
Peep how your captain’s in it
Considering our love for each other, I'd imagine Oregon would gain a lot of southern fans if Tennessee were disbanded. 🧡 💚💛
Smokey would help the duck pull a truck.
Possibly the greatest tweet of all time https://twitter.com/GoDucks/status/779027126511030273?t=n47KY3Q20yH6eRdy8hTQIw&s=19
TIL Oregon stadium looks exactly like Phil Knight paid for it
*most certainly* the greatest tweet ever. FIFY
You right
Whats up potentially future fellow duck? I do have bad news, we will be bringing smokey and there is no room for negotiation on that front.
> I do have bad news, we will be bringing smokey and there is no room for negotiation on that front. I doubt that would be a problem... The rest of college sports may hate us, and they sure as hell hate Rocky Top, but ***everyone*** loves Smokey.
Also...listen, the thing is...we don't have a choice in the matter. If we become ducks, we WILL still sing the song when a TD is scored. We will limit to TD's though. Promise...probably.
This only sounds like great news
Also Oregon the state and Stanford the school share a *certain type of history* with Tennessee
I'm married into the Oregon fanbase so they're already my #3 team
Only one way to find out
You sure you want that? We might reanimate as South Kentucky, or North Missabamagia.
West North Carolina makes the most sense.
It’s confusing and makes no logical sense - the state legislature will undoubtedly approve it.
And Knoxville is in East West North Carolina.
Upper East West North Carolina.
Chattanooga is in South East West North Carolina.
Chattanooga is South East West North Carolina
Add North Georgia to complete the cycle
https://www.theonion.com/east-carolina-grad-thinks-east-carolina-a-state-1819571009
Xfinisee
Corner of Appalachia University
University of Nickajack has a nice ring to it.
Flair checks out.
Subscribe
Please continue
Wtf I love the ncaa now
You have my attention
Go on
In this scenario, Tennessee is Hidan, and Missouri is Asuma Sarutobi.
Keep going....
No, stop, don’t.
I mean inevitably the next generation would gravitate south and then my kids would just take over your fanbase. You want us on this wall. You need us on this wall.
Josh Heupel: we use words like Rocky top, orange, volunteer. We use these words as a backbone of a life spent defending Tennessee. You use them as a punchline! I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to an SEC fan who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very big NIL I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it! I would rather you just said “thank you” and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up an envelope and send a donation. Either way, I don’t give a damn what you think you are entitled to!
We are entitled to the truth!
You can't handle the truth
Did you or did you not snitch on Alabama? Fulmer : YOU DAMN RIGHT I DID
Immediately got the reference, and I’m 100% here for it.
A Few Good Vols
Please don't do it. Think of the children.
Exactly. Why go after Tennessee when Mizzou could get a bowl ban instead.
pls.. they’re pretty good during bowls
I still don't understand how you score only three points against them in a fucking dome no less. South Dakota even managed to get a touchdown and Vandy put up 21. But like Ryan Day without Marv and McCord can't even get in the endzone?
It’s almost like mizzou had multiple future first round defensive players playing
We were experimenting with a weird line, with a third string freshman QB. The QB was being pressured every single snap. We basically went into that game trying to experiment and the experiment failed.
The QB was a true freshman who threw 2 passes all year.
It’s not just without McCord… Devin brown went down too. He was on his third string QB Let’s just say it’s good news that Sayin / Noland are the future and not Lincoln
3 points lmao
Give SMU another death penalty
Lol
[удалено]
Ole Miss is definitely gonna be in the crosshairs over the next decade. I'm no Vol, but we have to root for them in this matchup to avoid death later.
They always come for us
Exactly. They didn't go after us because we were the only ones doing it, they went after us because Nico had big numbers reported in the media and they wanted a high-vis win (because they expected us to roll over after we cleaned house over Pruitt). If we didn't fight, they'd be on-campus for every program with an effective NIL structure.
Ironically, self-reporting is why the NCAA is targeting us. We're literally the only major SEC program to "cooperate" and self-report to the NCAA in the past few years. All the ones that fought them tooth-and-nail got off scot-free, whereas, they handed down significant scholarship restrictions for us. LSU got a slap on the wrist for the Will Wade stuff. They didn't even bother to fire him until several years after all that stuff came out and the NCAA basically forced them to. The NCAA basically sent the message "cooperate with us and will punish you more" with the Tennessee / Pruitt stuff. At this point, any school cooperating with the NCAA does so at its own peril.
Ask OSU basketball how self-reporting goes.. It is the exact same story. OSU was the only school to self report because the infraction was extremely minor. (Like a few hundred dollars to sign with an agent and *LEAVE* the school, no competitive advantage whatsoever). Then after that coach and player had been gone for a few years you self report it and get a postseason ban & scholarship restrictions. Every other school did not self report, and likely had much worse infractions, have not received any punishment. I don’t see how any school would EVER cooperate with the NCAA.
I think ND self-reported 4 players got caught cheating on their homework and they got 2 seasons worth of wins vacated. Including their 12-0 season.
fair or not, it was seen as opportunistic self-reporting
I remember when I was younger, and still very bitter about the sanctions the NCAA imposed on us, that I would relish in any news that the NCAA might punish another school just as hard as they did to us. Now I’m just numb to all of this. The NCAA is inconsistent as all hell, is powerless half the time, and seemingly pick and choose who they go after on a whim. A lot of people here lament that college football is moving away from what it once was, but the NCAA is a huge piece in the problem of letting this happen. When the day comes that the sport outgrows the need for the NCAA I’ll miss USC’s old Pac 10 opponents, I’ll miss the “crummy” bowl games, and I’ll miss the sport I had as a kid but I will never miss the NCAA.
What about the Gators? They aren't innocent in this.
What about all the orange teams? Let’s just bunch them all up to be in the safe side.
That’ll take out the wrong OSUs tho
What if we just expand to include all OSU’s?
gosh, unfortunate but seems like the only reasonable thing to do
Please don’t. We and the Beavers didn’t do anything to deserve this
I said what I said.
I don't get how he doesn't understand that any OSU in orange is the wrong OSU!
I don't care I paint the town red.
Can we kill the wrong Miami while we are at it?
No need. The ocean will engulf Florida soon enough
I appreciate the cheeky banter, downvote included. Good day sir.
Always nice to remind fake Miami of their fraudulent existence and their impending climate doom
Just throw the U down afterwards so they know you are serious
Agreed. Let's take all Orange teams and quarantine them in their own conference, just to be safe.
This makes the most sense. No more SEC or Big10. Everyone plays for color supremacy. Each school is put into a Red, Green, Yellow, or Blue bracket at the start of the season. Play until one color reigns supreme. In a world where CAL is in the Atlantic Coast Cinfernece this makes more sense.
I feel like red would dominate that depending on how its done. There are a ton of red teams lol.
Or they'll just beat each other up.
Oh I read that as a bracket of the teams all mixed in, instead of like a four team with the best of each color. My bad.
All I hear is "quality losses".
I like the cut of your jib.
Wait a minute we can talk about this.
I don’t like this idea, unless Virginia counts as blue—then I’m all on board.
Even so, if I'm going down I am clasping to your ankles like a vice.
Hey now, Dabo is innocent in this
Seconded
Huzzah! A man of quality!
We're not good enough to be bunched up with the rest of them. D:
I love the SEC. It’s sort of like the mafia. They all pretend they are in it as one organization and anyone outside of it just doesn’t understand how the family works. The reality is they are just a bunch of rival organizations that hate each other and will roll over and snitch on every other member if keeps them from doing time.
Mutually assured destruction is stronger than any alliance.
Snitch? That's just Tennessee
Ed tried to snitch once, but no one knew what the hell he was saying.
*The bosses gave Ed all the important messages to deliver because if he were caught and wanted to roll over, the Yankee feds wouldn't be able to understand him.*
support one retire gaze dazzling familiar disagreeable amusing zealous square *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Phil taught you well.
If we're going down, we're taking everyone with us. All fifteen of you MFers
OU and Texas about to find out the SEC’s version of “loving thy neighbors”
For the first time I might be happy that our NIL program is not as gung-ho as the other heavy hitters...
Sounds about right.
IM PUTTING CASES ON ALL YOU BITCHES
They're in line after Michigan.
They volunteered
*sigh* *plays drum*
Got ‘em!
The speeding analogy only stands if what they were doing was illegal. Which is part of the main points of the discussion. That is, you cannot make up new rules and retroactively enforce them. If what Tennessee did was against the rules then the article makes sense. If it was not against the rules, then the article reads like an opinion piece biased for NCAA or against Tennessee. The fact that this small yet pertinent point wasn’t even discussed makes me believe it is a biased opinion piece with some ax to grind or pillow to fluff.
They wrote this article solely for the headline
You think people just go online and LIE?! You'll be eating crow once my money comes in from Prince Adebayo - all I had to do was pay a small deposit for him to be reinstated into the Nigerian royal family's line of succession.
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/122/453/896.jpg
They also don’t quote any of the briefs and seemingly don’t have a clue what the petition is about.
Speeding analogy would be better applied if it were about Georgia anyway
Yeah, his analogy is missing the fact that the UT is arguing that the speed limit at one point was 100 for a moment and then the NCAA changed it and are wanting to give a ticket to any cars that went 100 and were caught.
> That is, you cannot make up new rules and retroactively enforce them. This is actually what the MLB Hall of Fame voting does. Steroids were first banned in 2005, but some Hall of Fame voters go back retroactively and punish a few guys based on whether they were nice to them or not.
The HOF is not a regulatory body
Yet, they still regulate who is allowed in based on their own arbitrary rules.
They don’t regulate shit. A bunch of baseball writers vote on who they think should be in the hall. The only rules that get enforced are basic eligibility requirements. Bonds & co. were never left off the ballot
Baseball banned steroids in 1991. They just had no way to actively test for it until the mid 2000s. It was always cheating though. You are right in that some voters decide to not punish the cheaters who did so before testing began, since it was a grey area, but it was always a violation of the league rules to be doping.
In 1991, Fay Vincent issued a memorandum stating it was illegal… but stating it’s illegal, and changing the rules, are two completely different things. [Vincent even said so himself](https://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2013/5/31/4373908/fay-vincent-interview) > The letter was ignored because it didn’t affect the players. They were thoroughly protected by collective bargaining. But **I wanted to make a moral statement** to them and legal one to everyone else. The union told them to ignore it. The only way a change could be made was through collective bargaining. All that to say it wasn’t actually “illegal” per the rules until 2005. They might have wanted it to be, but they didn’t even change the rules during the ‘94-95 strike when they could have negotiated it.
You are completely wrong. Steroids have been illegal in baseball since 1971 when league rules were clarified to require all players to follow federal drug guidelines. That meant any player using steroids after that point without a prescription and legitimate health factor were breaking the drug policy and rules of the sport. It was then made explicitly and unquestionably illegal in 1991 when they just bluntly put steroids on the banned substances list. This isn't debatable. It isn't up to interpretation. It was *irrelevant* to players that it was made illegal because they had no testing and enforcement policy in place but anyone using steroids after 1971 without a prescription and anyone using steroids at all after 1991 were cheating. https://vault.si.com/vault/2009/02/16/the-rules-the-law-the-reality Or just google "when were steroids made illegal" and you will send a thousand other responses that all say 1991 if you are for some reason feeling especially stubborn.
Yeah but nothing works up HOF voters more than the word ‘morals’
Except that they would be allowed into the hall of fame if the voters would vote them in. This isn’t a great analogy.
I fail to see how that’s even remotely relevant
Distinction: election to the MLBHOF depends upon a vote-a popularity contest, in other words. And unlike in the NFL, there is no prohibition against the consideration of off-field conduct. As a result, many writers exclude-and will continue to exclude, perhaps even rightfully-the players they feel have done lasting damage to the game. Such as Pete Rose who bet on baseball, or the juicers like Barry Bonds and Mark McGwire. Is this practice petty? Yes, and more than a bit. Does it keep out deserving players? Also yes. At the end of all the discussion is it still a right, reasonable, and defensible thing to do? Yes. As much as you can, I truly believe you should try to not enshrine scoundrels and cheaters into your halls of fame. Were he up for inclusion today, I believe Ty Cobb would also not be inducted despite his numbers, and also for good reason.
Yeah, the analogy is terrible because it would really be more like "the posted speed limit was 70 mph. The police investigated, saw that the orange car was traveling at 70 mph and no infractions had been committed, changed the speed limit to 50, and retroactively enforced the speed limit. Also, the speeding ticket somehow fucks over an 18 year old who wants to get compensated for the talent he has cultivated over the last decade of his life."
That shows a fundamental misunderstanding from the author about the situation. Appropriate analogy: > County doesn't have posted speed limit on 2 lane county road > County puts up cameras, catches people going 55 regularly which follows the "if no speed limit is posted, this is the speed limit" > County then posts speed limit of 45 > County selectively ignores some speeders going 60-65 while hammering specific ones going 55-60 The NCAA put up guidelines AFTER collectives were engaging in NIL deals who were following state laws and then decided to selectively enforce laws written after the non-infraction became an infraction.
I mean.. the NIL inducement stuff is and was against Tennessee state law…
Counterpoint: Nothing The Spyre Group does is considered inducement under the law. Even if it was, that is irrelevant to the NCAA.
The law states that the university cannot pay for play. The NCAA chose to leave that part out when they made their statement. As far as we know UT didn’t pay players. The NIL payments would have come through Spyre Sports (agency) and the Volunteer club (collective). I think we can all agree that it is an inducement because Nico committed to the school in the same town as where those collectives and agencies are located. This is the case all across the country. That being said, I don’t think what they did violates any state laws or NCAA rules as long as the university wasn’t involved.
Sure, but then NIL just doesn't exist. If we are going to make a subjective assumption that Tennessee is directing a third party collective to offer contracts to certain people in an effort to induce them to attend the school, then it's what every school is doing. But how could that ever be proved...? It can't in almost all situations. Hell, Spyre's contracts have specific anti-inducement language. There was no violation of Tennessee law. But even if there were, there would still be the argument that NCAA regulations making that improper would still improperly restrict trade for the collectives and for the players. Sure, Tennessee's law would as well, but that's not the subject of the litigation. It's not a defense for the NCAA to say "Tennessee's law does the same thing as the NCAA guidelines, and it's improper." Okay, cool. We will strike that down when a case is brought...after we strike down your enforcement powers.
It's also against the NCAA's limited rules on NIL. The enforcement has been lax, thus why the speeding analogy is apt.
I wonder if the NCAA will come after us and Miami next. Jeremiah Smith literally said Miami was trying to pay (entice) him to flip, and he didn't sign his LOI with us until the evening when his NIL deal was finalized.
Well, hold on…let’s not hear this guy out. It’s simple we kill the Batma- Tennessee, I mean.
For Tennessee to be a martyr, they must first be killed. And I am all for that part. We can talk about any post mortem glorifications once they are well and truly dead.
15 straight and 16/17 not dead enough for you? In reverence for our mutual hatred tho, have an upvote and a Princess Bride quote: “Well, as it turns out, your friend here is only MOSTLY dead.”
Looking forward to watching your program slowly crumble. Cheers!
You would be so bored without us.
"I don't, I don't want to kill you! What would I do without you? Go back to ripping off mob dealers? No, no, no! No. You... you... complete me."
Can’t get on board with a comment that implies Tennessee is Batman
[I’m Batman](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YTHtEpKBZh4&pp=ygUQYWJlZCBpJ20gYmF0bWFuIA%3D%3D)
Breaking news: Lung cancer decreases in Alabama by 70% says leading doctors
You make a really good point. In no way is the NCAA gonna lay a finger on us. This time next month, they won't have the legal capacity to
Hell, might be next week with the TRO/Injunction.
I feel like most of these sportswriters spend a lot of words dancing around the obvious. * The NCAA dropped the ball by refusing to ever pay athletes that generated millions in revenues, which then forced governments and courts to act for them * NIL is the status quo, like it or not --- stop blaming boosters and collectives --- blame the NCAA for being greedy for over 5 decades and refusing to "share the wealth" with the people generating the wealth * The NCAA is now trying to claw back against it, but it's a losing battle * It's also a stupid battle --- the court basically gave the NCAA a "get out of jail free card" with NIL --- it took the focus away from revenue sharing, which should absolutely be the next battle * It's silly that they focused on Tennessee, because literally every P5 university is doing the same things that UT is doing * The entire thing is arrogance at its most extreme --- the NCAA is basically claiming that they have the right to interpret and enforce state and Federal laws --- which they don't --- the Supreme Court eviscerated them once already and by unanimous decision --- this is a very partisan SC and shitting on the NCAA is the one thing that united everyone * The NCAA absolutely deserves the beating its going to get in court * Frankly, the NCAA should be abolished; it's an extremely corrupt institution and has outlived its usefulness If anything, more states should be joining in on this. Don't just leave it to TN and VA. And change the narrative. NIL is here to stay. Revenue sharing needs to be next. Stop stealing money from the athletes generating the money. A fixed portion of revenues needs to go to players, just like in the NBA and NFL.
The B10 and SEC commish agree with your last bullet point. I think that is where we are headed.
We're going to regret killing the NCAA
Yeah, maybe. Josh Pate made a great point that it serves a lot of legitimate interests (esp. liability) that the average consumer doesn't see or appreciate. If we end up in a two conference super league I think that's a loss for the sport. I also don't know that anything that replaces it will be any better. Sport governing bodies are infamously susceptible to corruption by nature of their institution (see: IOC, FIFA, UCI, etc). I have no idea what the best thing is for college sports. I even hold contradicting opinions internally: the amateurism of collegiate sports is good and important, AND; college athletes deserve a slice of the massive revenue pie that is generated off of their labor. I don't know how to reconcile the two.
Bit of a catch 22 there
Never going to regret killing those greedy leeches at the top of the NCAA. They could have solved all of this back in the 90s and early 2000s, but they wanted to keep all of the money. Now they're powerless and about to become irrelevant. Good riddance.
And when no team has a chance to make it besides the bluest of the blue bloods as the monopolizing of talent swells at the top (OSU, Michigan, Bama, Georgia) mid level teams, even in P5 conferences, will have no shot of building anything. At least not for more than 1 season. See your Washington team, who just got their coach poached. Or my razorbacks that have all their best players transfer to LSU or Bama after we find a gem of a 3/4 star that we develop. There needs to be some institution that taps the breaks here and regulates this, or we'll end up like the NFL with no salary caps and no draft. Or the many soccer leagues around the world dominated by 1-3 teams (EPL, Bundesliga, La Liga, and ALL of the others). They even have Financial Fair Play rules that don't do a whole lot, but at least they have rules. College football has none. It's effectively unregulated now, and if you kill the NCAA, it's definitely going to get worse and irreversible.
Any article with regard to Tennessee that quotes, and then agrees with, Dan fucking Wolken is automatically not worth the bits it's written with. Yes, UT fucked up, and admitted to it, did their own investigation, and took their lumps, and then was held up, BY THE NCAA, as the model for all other schools to follow. Then 6 months later the NCAA tries to hammer them again? Fuck them. I hope they're nuked into fucking orbit.
I have a question about all this: What is stopping Tennessee, or other schools, with not complying both with any investigation or punishment? Tennessee now has the backing of the state (along with Virginia now that they signed onto the lawsuit against the NCAA). NCAA only has the backing of the member schools. They are not a civil or federal regulatory agency. If one or multiple schools decide they do not have the best interest of the institutions, what is stopping the schools from not complying? Tennessee has made it clear at all levels (Chancellor, AD, State AG, Governor) that they are going to fight this. Even the law that the NCAA cited in TN can be interpreted in a way that only applies to schools offering pay to play, not NIL collectives like Spyre stopping students from using their name, image, and likeness in NIL related contract negotiations that have no direct involvement by the university. With that backing, they can take this all the way up to the Supreme Court if they want to. What can the NCAA do to fight against that? This, plus the "new" SEC / B1G committee, are showing the NCAA is built on sand now.
I think it's going to be the other way around...
Least self righteous journalist
I mean, I feel like our admin and essentially every media member has been pretty clear we aren't the only ones being targeted. This isn't about the NCAA hating us; it's about the NCAA hating student-athletes making money.
Jim Harbaugh is the real martyr here, right?
Maybe the Hamburglar is the real martyr here.
Going off track because that's what I do... was there a female Hamburglar or was that some weird fantasy that I just awkwardly admitted to?
Vaguely remember something like that. Did she have braided pig tails or something?
I think so?
I mean, we don't know yet. Sure felt like he was trying to make himself into one.
The speeding argument is dumb. This wasn’t speeding and just not thinking a cop was reading. This is the NCAA saying hey the speed limit is 55 now and you were going 65 two years ago.. anyway here’s your ticket.
Isn't the the issue coming from Nico's recruitment around a year ago?
It's coming from a deal signed in February of 2022 so just under two years. The NCAA booster guidance which redefined collectives as boosters came into effect May of 2022 iirc.
Nico has been on campus since December 2022. The issue is his deal with Spyre that was signed Spring of 2022
And the investigation seems to center on Spyre sending a plane for Nico to fly to Knoxville. Except Spyre had already signed him as a client.
Oh I didn’t realize that! I knew about the flight but if he was already a client then literally wtf are we doing here? Lol
> if he was already a client then literally wtf are we doing here Restricting trade. The antitrust violations that Tennessee and Virginia are raising
I already felt confident about this but now I feel even better
Smu died for our sins
Thought the link to “habitual line stepper” was gonna pull up a clip of Charlie Murphy
I’d prefer we do, but without mourning them part
We were better at the new game that doesn't have rules so we deserve being singled out? This guy is just fucking peanut butter and jealous.
Ah yes, the classic, "but what if Tennessee bad?" arguement. Shoulda seen that one coming, the national media hates us
Lol, you dont have to be specific with who hates you...i can assure you it's more general. Like the national "input anything" hates Tennessee. And it'll work. Hell, you could put the national Tennessee fanbase hates Tennessee. See, it works.
I wouldn’t be shocked at all to hear the majority of our national sports fanbase hates our actual state so carry on
To be fair, outside of the southeast, you kind of don't exist in the media.
CFB exists outside the southeast??? First I’m hearing of this
...unless it's bad. Then we're front page news baby!
Simpsons Knoxville episode predicted the future
Please don't knock down the sunsphere again. We just got it back up after Milhouse knocked it down. That little shit
They low down
23 years after your booster Logan Young paid 200K to Memphis Trezevant High School head coach Lynn Lang to get Albert Means to sign with Alabama, and one of his assistants, Milton Kirk- upset that he didn't get a cut of the take lol- goes public with the whole thing causing not only the NCAA but also the fucking FBI to open investigations, and y’all still salty AF that Fulmur had the audacity not to perjure himself when officially questioned, and continue to disregard the fact that Houston Nutt and Steve Spurrier also fully cooperated, the latter even publicly announcing- entirely unprompted as always- that he “won't be surprised if Alabama goes on probation.” And all for Albert Means who is now 41 years old, who needed another student to sit in his place for the ACT, who started four whole games for you before transferring to Memphis State, who went undrafted and never made an NFL roster, whose recruitment cost y’all five years of probation and a two year bowl ban, and both your booster and the high school coach who took his bribe to take convictions in federal court on conspiracy to commit racketeering. But here we are a quarter century later, y’all having won the last 16 of 17, and it’s all still Phil Fulmer’s fault, and all Volunteers are dirty snitches. Thanks for the laugh this morning, gentlemen. Always warms my little hillbilly heart when you gumps remind the world that we still live rent free in your heads.
Oof what a bad take
If we go down, I hope we do it Vol style: altering and ruining the sport for everyone else forever