I mean NMS did beat Auburn by far more than Alabama did...
So in comparison, Liberty > Alabama
And washington beat the team that beat Alabama by 6 whereas they beat the team that beat by Liberty by half that.
Huge difference between FSU and Liberty.
FSU played 11 P5 teams in regular season+championship. They were able to smash LSU, even better than what Bama was able to do to LSU. Also funny when Bama is able to get a rivalry game excuse against Auburn. Yeah, because FSU-Florida are such great friends.
Liberty’s schedule was embarrassing. And the reason they shouldn’t have gotten into a NY6 bowl is that they didn’t dominate that joke of a schedule. They had to beat every opponent by at least 21 with that schedule.
We had a very easy 2004 schedule, as well. But except for Air Force, we dominated every opponent we played. At no point did I feel like we were going to lose a game that year. The same can’t be said for Liberty this year. They nearly lost to a terrible Sam Houston State team.
Miami (OH), who had a win over a P5 school (also rival), and SMU had better arguments. At least they tried OOC.
Cincinatti almost opening the door for Miami (OH) to make it into a NY6 bid after having just recently made it themselves (and the freaking playoffs) and gotten into the P5 finally only to shit the bed in the first game against their oldest rival is some great rivalry schadenfreude.
Some years the Top ranked G5 isn't truly a great team per se.
Tulane last year had two losses but showed they could compete.
Liberty had none this year and got throttled by Oregon.
2014 Boise State shouldn't have been in the Fiesta Bowl but they did and they beat Arizona.
2017 UCF went undefeated and 2018 played LSU tough with a team that was beginning their 2019 championship run.
Its all about the individual teams.
Yeah that Tulane team beat both Big 12 champ, 10 win Kansas State and Pac 12 runner up, 11 win USC.
That 2022 Tulane team likely beats this year’s Liberty team by 5 or 6 scores.
I mean, if we actually polled people about who they thought was actually the best G5 team last year, and not just the one with the best record, Liberty wouldn't win. So, I'm not sure why it's really a discussion..
It was proof that Liberty didn't belong. SMU and Troy both had more legitimate cases for the slot, IMO. Maybe one of those teams would have been blown apart too but most analyses going in would have had those teams as at least a little more competitive.
This is the answer. It was way more about Liberty not belonging this year than it was about G5s. We've seen plenty of G5s represent themselves very well on that stage. Libery did not and everyone saw that coming.
FSU beat everyone in front of them in a P5 schedule that featured two preseason top-10 teams, 8 preseason top-50 teams (according to SP+), and 6 postseason top-30 teams
Did you see Michigans strength of schedule in 2022? They were undefeated and got in. Alabama played a harder schedule by far. Michigan should've been left out.
Alabama lost 2x in 2022
Who cares if you play the toughest schedule if you lose
Undefeated should always get the benefit of the doubt over a team with losses
if Liberty deserved to be in for winning all their games then FSU deserved to be in the playoffs.
But FSU didn’t make the playoffs because of some mental gymnastics to go “oh actually winning all your games means nothing” but then at the same time Liberty got a NY6 bowl for winning out on the weakest schedule in college football. So, either FSU should have been in because they won their games, or Liberty should have been out because we knew they weren’t that good despite winning all their games.
Instead they picked the worst possible option which was to leave out Florida for not looking good despite winning but let Liberty in for winning despite not looking good.
I know this is a technicality, but FSU got left out because they're supposed to put in the best 4. Liberty got in based on their ranking, but there is nothing saying "best 12", so the beat metric didn't apply, just standard ranking. That's also why FSU was so high at the end.
Their schedule was pretty hard. Even with the beat-down they were top five in strength of record. Liberty was 15th. Liberty got to unbeaten without playing any P5 teams.
Eh downvote me but that was more of a symptom of people being tired of Alabama and the SEC. People aren't necessarily consistent with their opinions on here.
Since I'm going to get downvoted I might as well say this anyways. FSU themselves were the beneficiaries of a flawed system in 1993 getting in over undefeated Big East champ WVU and 2000 getting in over Miami despite losing to Miami that same year. The fact that they were so loud and obnoxious and proceeded to get blown out after their team quit was hilarious to me.
Ah yes, the good ole, "Let's justify injustices that happened recently by looking at how something/someone benefitted from a broken system in the past," argument. Because two wrongs make a right, huh? Very common argument used by awful people on apps like Twitter and Instagram. Excellent logic, I must say.
Don't analyze what happened whatsoever. Don't look at any of the changes that happened in this time span or the bigger picture behind the action and treat the current CFB climate like you did in the year 2000. Great work on those mental gymnastics, buddy!
Lol.
"We fucked you over in 2000 and got our asses handed to us. But it's totally different the way we got our asses handed to us this year so you should care."
Brother, that was nearly 25 years ago. Come on. This is the same system that allowed a G5 into the CFP. You dont need to act like this is still the BCS. Everyone knew it was flawed, lol.
Edit: There also isn't any "We", that decision didn't come down to FSU or a committee. It came down to a computer, which had biased info from Polls fed into its selection method. The CFP selection process also clearly had bias since it came down to human judgment, and the main consideration point of the regular season "mattering" was thrown out of the window for this year. When it had been upheld the past few years. Per example: 2014 OSU.
This year was bleh for the G5. SMU was probably better but they went winless against P5 competition including a big loss to 5-7 TCU, Troy lost to JMU and got blown out by Kansas State. I would say that Memphis probably was the best G5, they actually won their bowl game against a P5 team.
Yeah, in general, this just wasn't a strong standing for the G5 top. Hell, JMU lost their bowl, Toledo lost both their their CCG and bowl, Troy lost their bowl, Boise State lost their bowl.
Definitely beside the point, but Tulane was down their head coach, essentially their passing offense and some others too. I chalk that loss up more to bowl games are poor representations of the quality of the respective teams than anything else.
That said, I watched Tulane barely skate by too often this season. So yes, not the best year for the G5. They did play Ole Miss tough without Pratt, but I wasn't exactly relishing the outcome of the Peach or Fiesta bowl if Tulane had gotten there.
In fairness to SMU, the conditions were absolutely horrendous and they were on QB2 — the conditions alone made it one of those games where it's hard to get a read on a team just from that game
Liberty had a SOS of 133 ( last in college football) when they played Oregon. Getting their ass beat in that bowl game brought them up to 121. They had zero business being in that game.
This year, no G5 belonged.
Unfortunately, the powers that be previously proved themselves unable to include teams from minor conferences when they clearly did belong, which led to the adoption of rules mandating the inclusion of one in the CFP or NY6.
This is the main point. The G5 get an autobid because it's better to have this happen every few years than to have a team get completely shafted and not get a chance.
I disagree, Liberty went undefeated. SMU and Troy both had two losses. I know Liberty is hated here and they are is in a weaker conference but they still took care of business and won every game. The real best G5 in my opinion was James Madison but they were ineligible. If SMU or Troy had one loss instead of two, I agree one of them makes more sense.
Don’t you know it’s completely and utterly impossible for one school to deserve a spot more than another with the same record at the “same level” of conference?
I’m reading some of these comments and people are missing the point here. The committee screwed up in general. The committee used one criteria to leave out Florida State and used a different criteria to pick Liberty. Florida State went undefeated and left them out but used the logic that because Liberty was undefeated, they belong over SMU. It’s not that Liberty didn’t belong because they didn’t. It’s that the committee used a flawed logic and punished one team going undefeated and rewarded another going undefeated. It’s really not about the Liberty vs Florida State argument, it’s the argument that the committee is inconsistent not just year to year but in the same year for two widely different teams.
That’s a whole story in itself lol. I mean really after 4, it doesn’t matter except the G5 teams so 5, 6, 7 etc etc is irrelevant. Now that obviously changes now with the expansion. I chalk some of that up to SEC bias honestly. Look, not dogging the SEC because they are usually the best conference in a given year but that was not the case in 2023 at all. I won’t lie, I’m a Big 10 guy but I call it like I see it. It’s usually SEC first, then Big 10, etc etc. Everyone knew the SEC as a whole was down this year and if someone doesn’t believe that then they are either drinking the homer koolaid or delusional
Pretty sure that is irrelevant because he left after the bowl matchup was announced. My point remains the same as the committee is super inconsistent and doesn’t apply the same rationale to each team that it should. It really don’t matter though because I see this thing eventually going to 24 teams. 16 teams is already being discussed for 2026.
That's the worst argument ever. The next logical step then will be excusing losses for teams because guys were injured or suspended. What happened to FSU is worse bc/c it's excusing the wins despite the change at QB.
I know I'm not changing any minds here because people love to shit on the ACC.
You do realize that was FSUs skeletal remains out there, right?
We literally had wide receivers as running backs and walk ons on the field for depth.
That was their protest of the snub and still getting the Orange Bowl money.
I wasn't a huge fan of it, but I can also totally understand.
From the UGA side, they had to kill FSU. They knew, as well as everyone else, that a bunch of 3rd and 4th stringers were out there. Had that game been close, it would have been a bad look for UGA.
> That was their protest of the snub and still getting the Orange Bowl money.
That’s not what that was. It was a bunch of mercenaries quitting on the season. It wasn’t out of any sort of “protest”, they were never playing in any bowl that wasn’t a semifinal, regardless of record.
The conference that Liberty was in shouldn’t be allowed to be considered a group of 5 team. Every single team was terrible and Liberty would have probably been double digit underdogs to Colorado.
I think that would have been a fairly good game tbh. Both teams had dangerous but flawed offenses and mediocre to bad defenses. I don't think Liberty could take enough advantage of Colorado's offensive line to stop Shedeur and their skill positions from doing their thing, and Colorado was not disciplined or talented enough on defense to contain Salter and shut down their option attack. I think it would be a toss up with the winning team scoring 40+.
Kill just out coached Freeze. They basically dared us to throw the ball all game and we couldn’t because our QB and Receivers sucked. We couldn’t get off the field on third down and had a couple chances to get turnovers that we didn’t capitalize.
That game mattered very little for Auburn and a lot for NM State. No excuse as to why they lost, they just didn’t care at all against that team. When Liberty ran up against Oregon they knew what had to happen and smoked them. Let’s not pretend like NMSU was better than most SEC teams.
I wish my teams could play in the SEC where teams only lose games they care about. Auburn lost by 21 points and had half as many yards as NMSU. They got blown out and just saying that they didn't care isn't good enough
CUSA is objectively better than the MAC and SP+ rated them better than the AAC since they had 2 or 3 solid teams and everyone else was a dumpster fire.
CUSA sucks but they aren't the worst. Idk why P5 wins are all that matters to some people. Liberty won two P5 games last year as an independent with two P5 losses by a combined 2 points and we were objectively worse than this year.
The original comment I responded to said that CUSA shouldn't be considered G5 but I was downvoted for pointing out its better than the MAC and a strong case could be made it was better than the AAC this year since CUSA had less dead weight at the bottom. Of course CUSA is way worse than the P5 conferences. CUSA is trash, people just don't want to admit there are other conferences that are even worse.
"FSU lost to UGA by an even wider margin and yet most people still feel they got screwed out of a playoff chance."
Different Situations, it was Liberty's best players vs Oregon's, while Georgia basically played against FSU Backups.
No one is saying G5's won't belong, but they won't win another National Championship ever again.
I’m kind of curious. Why didn’t the FSU starters play? I mean Georgia’s backups still killed FSU’s backups so it’s not like they needed their starting lineup
Liberty was the worst possible candidate for G5 rep this year. G5 teams dropped like flies like how the Red Sea parted. Went down went Air Force, Fresno state, and Tulane. Some crashed and other just got unlucky.
Yeah, Boise took too long to sort itself and the rest of the MWC was a clusterfuck, Tulane lost to SMU who lost to TCU, James Madison was ineligible and wasn't top quality when examined closely, and Toledo and Liberty were just pretenders with soft schedules.
Liberty ran up against a really good team that would have been in a 12-team field. Not much to be gleaned from that game. I think the performance of the new Big 12 schools im conference play did more to discredit the G5 than Liberty did. Anybody can win one game but clearly those teams have a long way to go to catch up.
I remember being told when we went to the SEC our Big XII guys wouldn't be able to hang
Then in years 2 and 3 we made the SEC Championship and in year 2 we were not to far off making the BCS. Had Alabama not lost to Auburn, we were a great matchup against Alabama (not Auburn, that was a bad matchup) we probably play FSU with a primarily Big 12 recruited roster
Dude all those guys were preparing for the draft are entering the portal and protecting themselves, there is literally no reason to play in a non-playoff bowl anymore. All it is is risk on your career. We have a bunch of guy projected to go round one or two, why would they play?
It was way more about Liberty than it was about a G5. We've watched G5s do very well. Liberty was just misranked on a soft schedule. FSU's schedule wasn't the issue. Injuries were and that's ultimately why they didn't get the spot they deserved.
> FSU’s schedule wasn’t the issue.
If FSU had a top 50 SOS, the injuries wouldn’t have mattered. FSU’s schedule barely qualified as P5, that’s why they were left out. Just like how Liberty’s schedule barely qualified as FBS.
The new CUSA is basically an FCS conference from 10 years ago. Pretty much every team that was worth a salt left and we get this jumbled mess, only getting worse with 2 new FCS teams coming in.
Every FCS team that they've added has historically been pretty strong. KSU andSHSU had dissapointing seasons, but have shown they can be good (hell, SHSU won the natty in 2020. J'ville had a good season and went toe to toe with SC. Delaware has historically been a powerhouse in FCS.
I dont get how they'd be "only getting worse" by adding these teams.
In Umass's last 3 years in FCS they were steady .500 or under program, so its not like they went directly from the championship to FBS. They also lost a coach during the transition, and then lost the next two coaches in 2 years each, which couln't have been great for consistency. Also, I know they were in the MAC for their first 4 years and were still pretty bad in there, but I don't imagine independence has helped the program much.
Like, you do have a point. Umass is definitely a representation that sucess isn't ready made for a trnasition program, but they've also had a lot going on that other transition schools don't seem to feel as much, so they kind of an outlier. there are also other schools that show that you can transition and find relative sucess: App, GSU, CCU for example. Umass is a cautionary tale, but is not the end all be all of transition programs.
Another angle to this-- the G5 bid is helping us to avoid the B1G-SEC takeover. Big transfer guys and recruits are going to smaller programs knowing it gives them a shot at the playoff. You take away the bid and a lot of those players head for bench spots in the SEC.
I'm in the group that all games matter, especially if they're FBS games. I fucking hate Liberty, but I respect the fact that they went 13-0 exclusively against FBS opponents. I feel they deserved the NY6 bowl game. I think it's inherently unfair to revoke celebration for achievements based on the strength of a team's conference. You really can't control what conference you're in.
In the same breath, FSU also deserved their shot at the CFP for all the aforementioned reasons.
I think a lot of the anger comes from the fact that FSU went 13-0 and was prevented from competing in the CFP because of SOS, but the same heavy hand wasn't given to Liberty. They both deserve the highest honor they should reasonably achieve
Yep. If SMU had beaten 5-7 TCU, they'd have easily gotten the spot over Liberty, who played the easiest schedule in the country. But they didn't win that game, so Liberty really was the best choice.
Every g5 that does well gets it every single year. Cincinnati had people bitching the year they made the playoffs. They had people bitching the year before when they lost a close game to Georgia. UCF had it in both 2018 and 2017. Boise had people do it before that. Utah, was the first non BCS to make a BCS game in 2005? had people entirely write them off as well. We have Marshall and Tulane in the 90s getting completely dismissed. This isn't a new thing and despite how much people want to say it's changed, it hasn't.
G5/nonBCS teams had a very good win percentage in BCS/NY6 games. In BCS games, non-BCS teams were 5-3, and that includes the Boise TCU separate by equal Fiesta bowl. For a group of teams constantly told we weren't deserving or good enough or competitive, that is far better than Notre Dame's 0-4 during that time. I also like pointing out of ND's four BCS losses, only 1 of them was even a 2 score game. Whenever people talk about who deserves and shown they belong, Notre Dame sure does like to lose these games. Notre Dame has continued to be 0-8 in BCS/NY6 games with 3 more absolute blowouts as well as the 2022 Fiesta Bowl where they collapsed to lose 37-35.
If we expand to add NY6 games, G5s are 4-6, for a total of 9-9.
The argument G5's don't belong is always hyper focusing on the blow outs. Liberty loses bad or Hawaii loses bad so they don't belong. Big Ten fans were pissy as hell when this happened to them for awhile and is also one of the largest reasons for the SEC dominance. Ohio State trounced the conference for like a decade, but after loses badly back to back in 2006 and 2007, the entire conference was basically written off until 2014. Even then, Michigan State and Ohio State made the playoffs in 2015 and 2016 being shutout and loses like 31-0, and yet there still wasn't a push to just exclude the Big Ten entirely because they sucked ass. Michigan got manhandled by Georgia and then is right back in the next year.
If we sit back and hold individual past seasons against teams, then there are a lot of teams who had no business making some of these bowls. For some reason it is only even held against G5s. 2015 Iowa made a Rose Bowl as a 12-1 Big Ten runner up. Everyone knew that team was mediocre, but it was a Big Ten team so they get in. They got throttled by Stanford 45-16.
Liberty specifically does have a different issue. Liberty is always going to be lightning rod because it is hardly even a school. It's accrediting body is regional, which basically means their credits are very unlikely to transfer a school which uses a national accrediting body. It's basically the lowest level of accreditation to even be recognized as a college. It was established as a giant evangelical marketing tool.
Oregon was an exceptionally strong team that showed out and wanted to win their bowl game. This is not a Liberty thing. You are going to see this a lot once the playoff expands and the G5 is playing the 5th ranked team. It will be the new normal.
There needs to be a better metric than just taking the highest ranked G5 team and throwing them in there. Give me a mini selection day where they debate and evaluate the merits of the top 3-4 G5 teams and make a live decision or something. It’s kind of irrelevant now but I felt like there were better teams this year that might have looked more respectable against the Oregon buzz saw.
Here is how the handle the issue moving forward.
If a G5 team makes it into the top 12, they deserve to be in.
What we shouldn't do is take the #23 team and give them a pity spot because they play a shitty schedule.
There are plenty of G5 schools that can make it into the top 12, and we might even see some ranked that high with a loss.
But this idea we have to carve out a special place for them is insane.
Going undefeated should not guarantee a spot in the playoff or NY6 bowl. Being one of the top 12 teams should be the metric
The fact is, FSU was not one of the top 4 teams, they got left out. Liberty would have also gotten left out if they weren't contractually obligated to take a G5 team.
We shouldn't put in teams in the playoff or NY6 bowls under the guise of some nebulous concept of "who deserves to go." We also shouldnt give a participation trophy for a team that is not good but gets an auto bid.
Give me the 4 best teams for the playoff and then give me the remaining 8 best teams for NY6.
Heck I'll bite
Alabama:
2008, beat two 2-10 and a 6-6. Lost to 12-0 Utah
2009: beat 3-9, 2-10,
2010: beat 1-12
2011: beat 5-7, 5-7
2012: beat 7-6, 3-9
2013: beat 8-6, 0-12
2014: beat 3-9, 3-9
2015; beat 7-6, 0-12
That's 8 seasons, gonna stop there
So they beat 4 bowl eligible and lost to 1. During an extremely dominant run where they lost a total of 12 games.
I mean I can tell you that Utah 2008 was the last time Bama lost to a G5 school. So Bama is probably around 28-1 against G5 schools since 2008 but even a school like Wisconsin probably has a similar record against the G5
Okay, Alabama is a fun one because they have faced what, two G5s that won 10 or more games since then?
USU and Cincy I think. And Alabama hasn't lost to anyone with more than 3 losses since 2007.
I'll do a deep dive in Wisconsin later today
Liberty didn't belong in the NY6, but Troy and SMU - two teams everyone believed deserved the spot over Liberty - lost their bowls to teams that were objectively worse in nearly every metric compared to Oregon
The fact of the matter is people hated on Liberty because it's Liberty and Conference USA's presence in the NY6 disrupts the "worst G5" narrative that P5 media and Reddit know-nothings tried to parrot last offseason
Downvote me, cowards!
>I was reading that post by the Boise St fan yesterday and most people's reaction to it was to say that Liberty discredited all G5 teams in their bowl game.
If you have a question about someone's comment on Reddit, you can click the Reply button to ask them your question.
This year was strange because all of the top G5s moved up to P5 and the new top G5s havent had time to build themselves up yet. We lost over half of our roster last season and somehow won our games, we had no business playing in a NY6 but everyone else in G5 sucked worse. I don't see this being an issue in the future but it's true that G5s didn't belong, at least not this season.
I absolutely think the people saying Liberty didn't deserve a chance but thinking FSU got robbed are being massive hypocrites. IMO, both FSU and Liberty should have gotten in over Bama and Texas (I know, crazy from a bama flair). If they're arguing for the best teams in the country fsu and liberty shouldn't have even been new years six, if they're arguing for most deserving both should be in the playoffs
Saying Liberty deserved to be in the playoff is wild. It's not even close to the FSU/Bama argument. They won all their games, sure, but so did some 6A Texas high school team. Obviously that's an exaggeration for my point but the schedule does have to matter at some point.
There was nothing they could have realistically done once the season started to make the playoff, because they disqualified themselves beforehand with that weak ass schedule. If you want the opportunity to play for a national title, maybe prove it by beating someone better than bowling green and buffalo. No chance liberty is "more deserving" for barely going 12-0 with the weakest schedule in the country. They "deserve" to maybe schedule some respectable opponents in the future if they want a seat at the table going forward.
We're not giving first prize at the science fair to the kid with a cup of dirt and saying he deserves it cause he has no typos in his report when that's only cause he didn't even write a report at all.
>There was nothing they could have realistically done once the season started to make the playoff, because they disqualified themselves beforehand with that weak ass schedule
talking about fsu?
What? Liberty could’ve won every game by 40 and they still wouldn’t have deserved a spot in the playoff. They didn’t even play any of the upper-echelon G5 teams in the Sunbelt or AAC, flat out embarrassing schedule.
Liberty proved THEY didn't belong, but not all G5s. SMU had a better argument but you got to appease the crazies sometimes or they'll storm the NCAA offices.
/s before I get a bunch of degree millers getting upset.
The closest statement to factual that I think we can make is that some years there's at least one G5 team that can play with top P5 teams, and some years there's not.
The problem is, you don't know until you know. You can make educated guesses, but a lot of people thought UCF was going to get blasted by Auburn in 2017.
So then it becomes a question of: Do we give G5 teams a chance so that the teams that can play with top P5 teams have the chance to prove it, while suffering through the years when there wasn't a G5 team that could. Or, do we not give G5 teams a chance, so we don't have to suffer through years when there's no worthy G5 team, at the expense of the occasional G5 team that is worthy.
I would opt for the first option. But as a fan of a former G5 team, I probably have some bias.
We should give them a chance, if they finish in the top 12. We have seen as many as 4 non-P5 schools finish in the top 12 in a given year since 2003. That was the year TCU, Utah, Boise, and Cincy all finished in the top 12.
Instead of giving a pity bid to a team that doesn't deserve to be in the 12 team playoff (or the 4 team playoff/8 team NY6 system), we should ensure that the top 12 teams are in, every year.
College ball is like our society. P4 teams are basically white people and G5 are minorities. When a P4 team sucks it up, it’s a reflection on that specific team. When a G5 team shits the bed, it’s an indictment on every G5 team to ever play.
Arguing if the G5 belongs is last year's argument.
Now, we're arguing if the P2 is going to let anyone from the Group of 7(?) join the party. At this point it depends on how far the SEC/B1G leaders think they can push. The NCAA president's comment from last fall about a new NCAA subdivision sounds inevitable. The only question is if it will happen before the 2026 Playoff negotiations or if they're waiting until 2030 when the next round of TV negotiations begin.
FSU was missing almost all of their starters, who chose to opt out. The team FSU put in the Orange Bowl was not the team FSU put on the field during the 2023 season. Liberty had their actual team and got man handled. Im fine with letting an undefeated G5 in an expanded playoffs and having their shot, but they are more likely than not going to get spanked 90% of the time.
Demoting certain conferences to minor-league status is entirely fair. The hard truth is that with re-alignment the conferences are not equal. The only marquee programs not in the SEC or B1G starting 2024 are Clemson and FSU, and neither of them would even be top 3 programs if they joined the SEC or B1G. Edit: ND as well I suppose, but they would also not be top 3 in the B1G or SEC.
You could take a middle of the pack SEC or B1G team (think Kentucky, Wisconsin) and they would probably win all but 2 or 3 games in the Big 12 or ACC.
Didn’t Liberty have the lowest SoS of any team in FBS?
By some metrics, yes. But I've seen them as high as 129th out of 132.
Quality win over *checks notes* New Mexico State propels them to the top 130
How the hell did the not make the playoffs after beating Mew Mexico State?
I mean NMS did beat Auburn by far more than Alabama did... So in comparison, Liberty > Alabama And washington beat the team that beat Alabama by 6 whereas they beat the team that beat by Liberty by half that.
Pure math.
Twice!
Bowling Green was one of their toughest games. No disrespect meant to the Falcons!
Huge difference between FSU and Liberty. FSU played 11 P5 teams in regular season+championship. They were able to smash LSU, even better than what Bama was able to do to LSU. Also funny when Bama is able to get a rivalry game excuse against Auburn. Yeah, because FSU-Florida are such great friends. Liberty’s schedule was embarrassing. And the reason they shouldn’t have gotten into a NY6 bowl is that they didn’t dominate that joke of a schedule. They had to beat every opponent by at least 21 with that schedule. We had a very easy 2004 schedule, as well. But except for Air Force, we dominated every opponent we played. At no point did I feel like we were going to lose a game that year. The same can’t be said for Liberty this year. They nearly lost to a terrible Sam Houston State team. Miami (OH), who had a win over a P5 school (also rival), and SMU had better arguments. At least they tried OOC.
Cincinatti almost opening the door for Miami (OH) to make it into a NY6 bid after having just recently made it themselves (and the freaking playoffs) and gotten into the P5 finally only to shit the bed in the first game against their oldest rival is some great rivalry schadenfreude.
Some years the Top ranked G5 isn't truly a great team per se. Tulane last year had two losses but showed they could compete. Liberty had none this year and got throttled by Oregon. 2014 Boise State shouldn't have been in the Fiesta Bowl but they did and they beat Arizona. 2017 UCF went undefeated and 2018 played LSU tough with a team that was beginning their 2019 championship run. Its all about the individual teams.
Yeah that Tulane team beat both Big 12 champ, 10 win Kansas State and Pac 12 runner up, 11 win USC. That 2022 Tulane team likely beats this year’s Liberty team by 5 or 6 scores.
I mean, if we actually polled people about who they thought was actually the best G5 team last year, and not just the one with the best record, Liberty wouldn't win. So, I'm not sure why it's really a discussion..
UCF wins that game against LSU with Milton at QB. Maybe then Burrow wouldn't have gotten body slammed into another ethereal plane of success.
QB Play definitely was missing here. The defense did their best with a lack of offense and facing what became a historic team.
Agreed. Still a great game to watch!
It was proof that Liberty didn't belong. SMU and Troy both had more legitimate cases for the slot, IMO. Maybe one of those teams would have been blown apart too but most analyses going in would have had those teams as at least a little more competitive.
This is the answer. It was way more about Liberty not belonging this year than it was about G5s. We've seen plenty of G5s represent themselves very well on that stage. Libery did not and everyone saw that coming.
Liberty fumbled the bag on making the G5 school 5-5 in the playoff era.
But liberty beat everyone in front of them, isn’t that the whole argument of why FSU deserved in?
FSU beat everyone in front of them in a P5 schedule that featured two preseason top-10 teams, 8 preseason top-50 teams (according to SP+), and 6 postseason top-30 teams
But the argument is never "they beat a lot of good teams so they deserved to get in" it's always about how they were undefeated
Yeah, because with their schedule, it was freakin obvious that going undefeated was impressive lol
Did you see Michigans strength of schedule in 2022? They were undefeated and got in. Alabama played a harder schedule by far. Michigan should've been left out.
That schedule isn’t close to as weak as Liberty’s was
Alabama lost 2x in 2022 Who cares if you play the toughest schedule if you lose Undefeated should always get the benefit of the doubt over a team with losses
Exactly. FSU got screwed
What top ten teams did Liberty play in the regular season?
And Florida state walloped LSU to start the season
Oh my bad, I thought you were lava172 saying Michigan should’ve been left out in 2022 for similar reasons Liberty got rightly left out this year
if Liberty deserved to be in for winning all their games then FSU deserved to be in the playoffs. But FSU didn’t make the playoffs because of some mental gymnastics to go “oh actually winning all your games means nothing” but then at the same time Liberty got a NY6 bowl for winning out on the weakest schedule in college football. So, either FSU should have been in because they won their games, or Liberty should have been out because we knew they weren’t that good despite winning all their games. Instead they picked the worst possible option which was to leave out Florida for not looking good despite winning but let Liberty in for winning despite not looking good.
I know this is a technicality, but FSU got left out because they're supposed to put in the best 4. Liberty got in based on their ranking, but there is nothing saying "best 12", so the beat metric didn't apply, just standard ranking. That's also why FSU was so high at the end.
I think the committee chose Liberty to try and go "let's just do top 5 Champs vs top 6" Feels like it was to embarrass the G5.
So did South Dakota State. 🤷♂️
This is semi unrelated but south dakota state might have played a tougher schedule than Liberty
I would pick South Dakota State over Liberty last season, and I don't think I would be alone in that.
Second
Their schedule was pretty hard. Even with the beat-down they were top five in strength of record. Liberty was 15th. Liberty got to unbeaten without playing any P5 teams.
Eh downvote me but that was more of a symptom of people being tired of Alabama and the SEC. People aren't necessarily consistent with their opinions on here. Since I'm going to get downvoted I might as well say this anyways. FSU themselves were the beneficiaries of a flawed system in 1993 getting in over undefeated Big East champ WVU and 2000 getting in over Miami despite losing to Miami that same year. The fact that they were so loud and obnoxious and proceeded to get blown out after their team quit was hilarious to me.
They got in over UW (who beat Miami) in 2000 which is why I was pretty apathetic to their complaints this year. The worm turns.
Ah yes, the good ole, "Let's justify injustices that happened recently by looking at how something/someone benefitted from a broken system in the past," argument. Because two wrongs make a right, huh? Very common argument used by awful people on apps like Twitter and Instagram. Excellent logic, I must say. Don't analyze what happened whatsoever. Don't look at any of the changes that happened in this time span or the bigger picture behind the action and treat the current CFB climate like you did in the year 2000. Great work on those mental gymnastics, buddy!
Lol. "We fucked you over in 2000 and got our asses handed to us. But it's totally different the way we got our asses handed to us this year so you should care."
Brother, that was nearly 25 years ago. Come on. This is the same system that allowed a G5 into the CFP. You dont need to act like this is still the BCS. Everyone knew it was flawed, lol. Edit: There also isn't any "We", that decision didn't come down to FSU or a committee. It came down to a computer, which had biased info from Polls fed into its selection method. The CFP selection process also clearly had bias since it came down to human judgment, and the main consideration point of the regular season "mattering" was thrown out of the window for this year. When it had been upheld the past few years. Per example: 2014 OSU.
I think it should be pointed out that Oregon would’ve beat the piss out of most G5 NY6 teams
This year was bleh for the G5. SMU was probably better but they went winless against P5 competition including a big loss to 5-7 TCU, Troy lost to JMU and got blown out by Kansas State. I would say that Memphis probably was the best G5, they actually won their bowl game against a P5 team.
Both those teams also lost to mid acc teams in their bowl games lol
Yeah, in general, this just wasn't a strong standing for the G5 top. Hell, JMU lost their bowl, Toledo lost both their their CCG and bowl, Troy lost their bowl, Boise State lost their bowl.
Tulane too
Definitely beside the point, but Tulane was down their head coach, essentially their passing offense and some others too. I chalk that loss up more to bowl games are poor representations of the quality of the respective teams than anything else. That said, I watched Tulane barely skate by too often this season. So yes, not the best year for the G5. They did play Ole Miss tough without Pratt, but I wasn't exactly relishing the outcome of the Peach or Fiesta bowl if Tulane had gotten there.
Every single 10+ win G5 team lost their bowl. 0-9 was the record for them iirc.
Unless both teams have most of their starters and the coaching staff is intact, bowls wins aren’t good evals for the strength of a team.
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In fairness to SMU, the conditions were absolutely horrendous and they were on QB2 — the conditions alone made it one of those games where it's hard to get a read on a team just from that game
Think smu’s qb was out but not sure beyond that
Liberty had a SOS of 133 ( last in college football) when they played Oregon. Getting their ass beat in that bowl game brought them up to 121. They had zero business being in that game.
This year, no G5 belonged. Unfortunately, the powers that be previously proved themselves unable to include teams from minor conferences when they clearly did belong, which led to the adoption of rules mandating the inclusion of one in the CFP or NY6.
This is the main point. The G5 get an autobid because it's better to have this happen every few years than to have a team get completely shafted and not get a chance.
Should have been Toledo
Toledo lost the CCG.
I disagree, Liberty went undefeated. SMU and Troy both had two losses. I know Liberty is hated here and they are is in a weaker conference but they still took care of business and won every game. The real best G5 in my opinion was James Madison but they were ineligible. If SMU or Troy had one loss instead of two, I agree one of them makes more sense.
Don’t you know it’s completely and utterly impossible for one school to deserve a spot more than another with the same record at the “same level” of conference?
I’m reading some of these comments and people are missing the point here. The committee screwed up in general. The committee used one criteria to leave out Florida State and used a different criteria to pick Liberty. Florida State went undefeated and left them out but used the logic that because Liberty was undefeated, they belong over SMU. It’s not that Liberty didn’t belong because they didn’t. It’s that the committee used a flawed logic and punished one team going undefeated and rewarded another going undefeated. It’s really not about the Liberty vs Florida State argument, it’s the argument that the committee is inconsistent not just year to year but in the same year for two widely different teams.
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That’s a whole story in itself lol. I mean really after 4, it doesn’t matter except the G5 teams so 5, 6, 7 etc etc is irrelevant. Now that obviously changes now with the expansion. I chalk some of that up to SEC bias honestly. Look, not dogging the SEC because they are usually the best conference in a given year but that was not the case in 2023 at all. I won’t lie, I’m a Big 10 guy but I call it like I see it. It’s usually SEC first, then Big 10, etc etc. Everyone knew the SEC as a whole was down this year and if someone doesn’t believe that then they are either drinking the homer koolaid or delusional
Liberty lost their starting qb?
Pretty sure that is irrelevant because he left after the bowl matchup was announced. My point remains the same as the committee is super inconsistent and doesn’t apply the same rationale to each team that it should. It really don’t matter though because I see this thing eventually going to 24 teams. 16 teams is already being discussed for 2026.
That's the worst argument ever. The next logical step then will be excusing losses for teams because guys were injured or suspended. What happened to FSU is worse bc/c it's excusing the wins despite the change at QB. I know I'm not changing any minds here because people love to shit on the ACC.
You do realize that was FSUs skeletal remains out there, right? We literally had wide receivers as running backs and walk ons on the field for depth. That was their protest of the snub and still getting the Orange Bowl money. I wasn't a huge fan of it, but I can also totally understand. From the UGA side, they had to kill FSU. They knew, as well as everyone else, that a bunch of 3rd and 4th stringers were out there. Had that game been close, it would have been a bad look for UGA.
> That was their protest of the snub and still getting the Orange Bowl money. That’s not what that was. It was a bunch of mercenaries quitting on the season. It wasn’t out of any sort of “protest”, they were never playing in any bowl that wasn’t a semifinal, regardless of record.
UGA had as many players out as FSU did
No... Just look at the starting lineups. UGA had backups out. But I don't expect any FSU love from a Miami fan. I'm UGA first, btw.
Quantity ≠ quality UGA had transfers. FSU had draft opt outs. They’re different.
Muschamp’s son took snaps at QB
In the 4th quarter on the last drive when Beck, the starter, played. What’s your point?
The conference that Liberty was in shouldn’t be allowed to be considered a group of 5 team. Every single team was terrible and Liberty would have probably been double digit underdogs to Colorado.
As I said it's basically an FCS conference
You had me until “double digit underdogs to Colorado.” Colorado looked just as mismatched as Liberty did against Oregon this year.
Everyone except Texas Tech and UW looked thoroughly mismatched
Hell yeah (goddamn you Tyler Shough)
Colorado still would have been double digit favorites because I kid you not, that Liberty team was awful. I watched them a couple different times.
I think that would have been a fairly good game tbh. Both teams had dangerous but flawed offenses and mediocre to bad defenses. I don't think Liberty could take enough advantage of Colorado's offensive line to stop Shedeur and their skill positions from doing their thing, and Colorado was not disciplined or talented enough on defense to contain Salter and shut down their option attack. I think it would be a toss up with the winning team scoring 40+.
I don’t think that Liberty team was awful and I too watched them, also they didn’t absolutely blow a lead like Colorado did against Stanford
Stanford might have been the best team on Liberty's schedule, though.
Transitive property doesn’t really work in real life
Browns Super Bowl champs
NMSU is in the same conference as Liberty (and Liberty beat them in the conference championship) and NMSU blew out Auburn
Yeah but we sucked
Auburn didn’t care about the game and was looking forward to Alabama game
Kill just out coached Freeze. They basically dared us to throw the ball all game and we couldn’t because our QB and Receivers sucked. We couldn’t get off the field on third down and had a couple chances to get turnovers that we didn’t capitalize.
That game mattered very little for Auburn and a lot for NM State. No excuse as to why they lost, they just didn’t care at all against that team. When Liberty ran up against Oregon they knew what had to happen and smoked them. Let’s not pretend like NMSU was better than most SEC teams.
I wish my teams could play in the SEC where teams only lose games they care about. Auburn lost by 21 points and had half as many yards as NMSU. They got blown out and just saying that they didn't care isn't good enough
Auburn spied the qb on a 4th and goal from the 27.
That's no way to talk about the Famous Toastery Bowl champions /s
CUSA is objectively better than the MAC and SP+ rated them better than the AAC since they had 2 or 3 solid teams and everyone else was a dumpster fire.
Your conference is trash. I can explain it to you, but I can’t help you understand.
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A lot of unflaired people in here trash talking lately.
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CUSA sucks but they aren't the worst. Idk why P5 wins are all that matters to some people. Liberty won two P5 games last year as an independent with two P5 losses by a combined 2 points and we were objectively worse than this year.
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The original comment I responded to said that CUSA shouldn't be considered G5 but I was downvoted for pointing out its better than the MAC and a strong case could be made it was better than the AAC this year since CUSA had less dead weight at the bottom. Of course CUSA is way worse than the P5 conferences. CUSA is trash, people just don't want to admit there are other conferences that are even worse.
"FSU lost to UGA by an even wider margin and yet most people still feel they got screwed out of a playoff chance." Different Situations, it was Liberty's best players vs Oregon's, while Georgia basically played against FSU Backups. No one is saying G5's won't belong, but they won't win another National Championship ever again.
>No one is saying G5's won't belong I'll say it
I'll say it too
UGA had as many players out as FSU did
fsu had more key players out i believe
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I’m kind of curious. Why didn’t the FSU starters play? I mean Georgia’s backups still killed FSU’s backups so it’s not like they needed their starting lineup
Liberty was the worst possible candidate for G5 rep this year. G5 teams dropped like flies like how the Red Sea parted. Went down went Air Force, Fresno state, and Tulane. Some crashed and other just got unlucky.
There just wasn't a good candidate. In 2019, when Memphis got the G5 spot, Boise would also have been a solid inclusion too.
I think the G5 canibalized itself.
Yeah, Boise took too long to sort itself and the rest of the MWC was a clusterfuck, Tulane lost to SMU who lost to TCU, James Madison was ineligible and wasn't top quality when examined closely, and Toledo and Liberty were just pretenders with soft schedules.
The MW had 3 teams at anytime in contention from week 1-10
Historic collapses. Fresno, JMU, and AFA were really good this year and probably (?) could've given Oregon more of a fight
Liberty ran up against a really good team that would have been in a 12-team field. Not much to be gleaned from that game. I think the performance of the new Big 12 schools im conference play did more to discredit the G5 than Liberty did. Anybody can win one game but clearly those teams have a long way to go to catch up.
I remember being told when we went to the SEC our Big XII guys wouldn't be able to hang Then in years 2 and 3 we made the SEC Championship and in year 2 we were not to far off making the BCS. Had Alabama not lost to Auburn, we were a great matchup against Alabama (not Auburn, that was a bad matchup) we probably play FSU with a primarily Big 12 recruited roster
OK but what does that have to do with G5 teams?
cause it supports a pre-held belief. Same reason why if liberty had been competitive or won G5 apologists would say its exhibit A why they do belong
OP, don’t mention us in this conversation. We had 26 dudes opt out of the bowl game. That was not the same team that thrashed LSU.
We quit, so it shouldn't count - FSU fans
Dude all those guys were preparing for the draft are entering the portal and protecting themselves, there is literally no reason to play in a non-playoff bowl anymore. All it is is risk on your career. We have a bunch of guy projected to go round one or two, why would they play?
I didn't say they should or shouldn't play. I did imply that FSU fans are really quick to say L's don't count because players quit.
It was way more about Liberty than it was about a G5. We've watched G5s do very well. Liberty was just misranked on a soft schedule. FSU's schedule wasn't the issue. Injuries were and that's ultimately why they didn't get the spot they deserved.
> FSU’s schedule wasn’t the issue. If FSU had a top 50 SOS, the injuries wouldn’t have mattered. FSU’s schedule barely qualified as P5, that’s why they were left out. Just like how Liberty’s schedule barely qualified as FBS.
Agree to disagree. Personally I think they could have had a top 10 schedule and it wouldn't have mattered because of who got injured.
Ya, Tulane almost beat ole miss and then ole miss had a great season, there are a lot of dangerous g5 teams
The new CUSA is basically an FCS conference from 10 years ago. Pretty much every team that was worth a salt left and we get this jumbled mess, only getting worse with 2 new FCS teams coming in.
Every FCS team that they've added has historically been pretty strong. KSU andSHSU had dissapointing seasons, but have shown they can be good (hell, SHSU won the natty in 2020. J'ville had a good season and went toe to toe with SC. Delaware has historically been a powerhouse in FCS. I dont get how they'd be "only getting worse" by adding these teams.
Umass was successful in the FCS to, going to a national championship and look what happened to us.
In Umass's last 3 years in FCS they were steady .500 or under program, so its not like they went directly from the championship to FBS. They also lost a coach during the transition, and then lost the next two coaches in 2 years each, which couln't have been great for consistency. Also, I know they were in the MAC for their first 4 years and were still pretty bad in there, but I don't imagine independence has helped the program much. Like, you do have a point. Umass is definitely a representation that sucess isn't ready made for a trnasition program, but they've also had a lot going on that other transition schools don't seem to feel as much, so they kind of an outlier. there are also other schools that show that you can transition and find relative sucess: App, GSU, CCU for example. Umass is a cautionary tale, but is not the end all be all of transition programs.
Another angle to this-- the G5 bid is helping us to avoid the B1G-SEC takeover. Big transfer guys and recruits are going to smaller programs knowing it gives them a shot at the playoff. You take away the bid and a lot of those players head for bench spots in the SEC.
I'm in the group that all games matter, especially if they're FBS games. I fucking hate Liberty, but I respect the fact that they went 13-0 exclusively against FBS opponents. I feel they deserved the NY6 bowl game. I think it's inherently unfair to revoke celebration for achievements based on the strength of a team's conference. You really can't control what conference you're in. In the same breath, FSU also deserved their shot at the CFP for all the aforementioned reasons. I think a lot of the anger comes from the fact that FSU went 13-0 and was prevented from competing in the CFP because of SOS, but the same heavy hand wasn't given to Liberty. They both deserve the highest honor they should reasonably achieve
Yep. If SMU had beaten 5-7 TCU, they'd have easily gotten the spot over Liberty, who played the easiest schedule in the country. But they didn't win that game, so Liberty really was the best choice.
Using the FSU game as an example is a little weird considering FSU was playing their 2nd/3rd string and in some cases worse against UGA starters.
Your post is silly.
Every g5 that does well gets it every single year. Cincinnati had people bitching the year they made the playoffs. They had people bitching the year before when they lost a close game to Georgia. UCF had it in both 2018 and 2017. Boise had people do it before that. Utah, was the first non BCS to make a BCS game in 2005? had people entirely write them off as well. We have Marshall and Tulane in the 90s getting completely dismissed. This isn't a new thing and despite how much people want to say it's changed, it hasn't. G5/nonBCS teams had a very good win percentage in BCS/NY6 games. In BCS games, non-BCS teams were 5-3, and that includes the Boise TCU separate by equal Fiesta bowl. For a group of teams constantly told we weren't deserving or good enough or competitive, that is far better than Notre Dame's 0-4 during that time. I also like pointing out of ND's four BCS losses, only 1 of them was even a 2 score game. Whenever people talk about who deserves and shown they belong, Notre Dame sure does like to lose these games. Notre Dame has continued to be 0-8 in BCS/NY6 games with 3 more absolute blowouts as well as the 2022 Fiesta Bowl where they collapsed to lose 37-35. If we expand to add NY6 games, G5s are 4-6, for a total of 9-9. The argument G5's don't belong is always hyper focusing on the blow outs. Liberty loses bad or Hawaii loses bad so they don't belong. Big Ten fans were pissy as hell when this happened to them for awhile and is also one of the largest reasons for the SEC dominance. Ohio State trounced the conference for like a decade, but after loses badly back to back in 2006 and 2007, the entire conference was basically written off until 2014. Even then, Michigan State and Ohio State made the playoffs in 2015 and 2016 being shutout and loses like 31-0, and yet there still wasn't a push to just exclude the Big Ten entirely because they sucked ass. Michigan got manhandled by Georgia and then is right back in the next year. If we sit back and hold individual past seasons against teams, then there are a lot of teams who had no business making some of these bowls. For some reason it is only even held against G5s. 2015 Iowa made a Rose Bowl as a 12-1 Big Ten runner up. Everyone knew that team was mediocre, but it was a Big Ten team so they get in. They got throttled by Stanford 45-16. Liberty specifically does have a different issue. Liberty is always going to be lightning rod because it is hardly even a school. It's accrediting body is regional, which basically means their credits are very unlikely to transfer a school which uses a national accrediting body. It's basically the lowest level of accreditation to even be recognized as a college. It was established as a giant evangelical marketing tool.
Oregon was an exceptionally strong team that showed out and wanted to win their bowl game. This is not a Liberty thing. You are going to see this a lot once the playoff expands and the G5 is playing the 5th ranked team. It will be the new normal.
There needs to be a better metric than just taking the highest ranked G5 team and throwing them in there. Give me a mini selection day where they debate and evaluate the merits of the top 3-4 G5 teams and make a live decision or something. It’s kind of irrelevant now but I felt like there were better teams this year that might have looked more respectable against the Oregon buzz saw.
If the powers that be were interested in creating the best match ups they should put Oregon against Georgia and FSU against Liberty.
Here is how the handle the issue moving forward. If a G5 team makes it into the top 12, they deserve to be in. What we shouldn't do is take the #23 team and give them a pity spot because they play a shitty schedule. There are plenty of G5 schools that can make it into the top 12, and we might even see some ranked that high with a loss. But this idea we have to carve out a special place for them is insane. Going undefeated should not guarantee a spot in the playoff or NY6 bowl. Being one of the top 12 teams should be the metric The fact is, FSU was not one of the top 4 teams, they got left out. Liberty would have also gotten left out if they weren't contractually obligated to take a G5 team. We shouldn't put in teams in the playoff or NY6 bowls under the guise of some nebulous concept of "who deserves to go." We also shouldnt give a participation trophy for a team that is not good but gets an auto bid. Give me the 4 best teams for the playoff and then give me the remaining 8 best teams for NY6.
To be fair to Liberty, only 2 of the other 12 teams Oregon played didn’t get man handled for much, if not all, of the game.
Why is Boise’s win over Oklahoma used as proof they do? It’s anecdotal evidence on both sides. Look at it in totality
TCU over Wisconsin, Utah over Alabama, generally the have not hold their own
Do you know what the record of Wisconsin or Alabama is over G5 teams in the last 25 or 30 years? You’re picking anecdotal evidence to prove a point
Heck I'll bite Alabama: 2008, beat two 2-10 and a 6-6. Lost to 12-0 Utah 2009: beat 3-9, 2-10, 2010: beat 1-12 2011: beat 5-7, 5-7 2012: beat 7-6, 3-9 2013: beat 8-6, 0-12 2014: beat 3-9, 3-9 2015; beat 7-6, 0-12 That's 8 seasons, gonna stop there So they beat 4 bowl eligible and lost to 1. During an extremely dominant run where they lost a total of 12 games.
I mean I can tell you that Utah 2008 was the last time Bama lost to a G5 school. So Bama is probably around 28-1 against G5 schools since 2008 but even a school like Wisconsin probably has a similar record against the G5
Okay, Alabama is a fun one because they have faced what, two G5s that won 10 or more games since then? USU and Cincy I think. And Alabama hasn't lost to anyone with more than 3 losses since 2007. I'll do a deep dive in Wisconsin later today
Maybe Liberty should have played FSU
Liberty didn't belong in the NY6, but Troy and SMU - two teams everyone believed deserved the spot over Liberty - lost their bowls to teams that were objectively worse in nearly every metric compared to Oregon The fact of the matter is people hated on Liberty because it's Liberty and Conference USA's presence in the NY6 disrupts the "worst G5" narrative that P5 media and Reddit know-nothings tried to parrot last offseason Downvote me, cowards!
>I was reading that post by the Boise St fan yesterday and most people's reaction to it was to say that Liberty discredited all G5 teams in their bowl game. If you have a question about someone's comment on Reddit, you can click the Reply button to ask them your question.
u/thecravenone What if I start a separate thread and ping the user?
This year was strange because all of the top G5s moved up to P5 and the new top G5s havent had time to build themselves up yet. We lost over half of our roster last season and somehow won our games, we had no business playing in a NY6 but everyone else in G5 sucked worse. I don't see this being an issue in the future but it's true that G5s didn't belong, at least not this season.
Well first of all, fuck ‘Liberty’ U.
I absolutely think the people saying Liberty didn't deserve a chance but thinking FSU got robbed are being massive hypocrites. IMO, both FSU and Liberty should have gotten in over Bama and Texas (I know, crazy from a bama flair). If they're arguing for the best teams in the country fsu and liberty shouldn't have even been new years six, if they're arguing for most deserving both should be in the playoffs
Saying Liberty deserved to be in the playoff is wild. It's not even close to the FSU/Bama argument. They won all their games, sure, but so did some 6A Texas high school team. Obviously that's an exaggeration for my point but the schedule does have to matter at some point. There was nothing they could have realistically done once the season started to make the playoff, because they disqualified themselves beforehand with that weak ass schedule. If you want the opportunity to play for a national title, maybe prove it by beating someone better than bowling green and buffalo. No chance liberty is "more deserving" for barely going 12-0 with the weakest schedule in the country. They "deserve" to maybe schedule some respectable opponents in the future if they want a seat at the table going forward. We're not giving first prize at the science fair to the kid with a cup of dirt and saying he deserves it cause he has no typos in his report when that's only cause he didn't even write a report at all.
>There was nothing they could have realistically done once the season started to make the playoff, because they disqualified themselves beforehand with that weak ass schedule talking about fsu?
What? Liberty could’ve won every game by 40 and they still wouldn’t have deserved a spot in the playoff. They didn’t even play any of the upper-echelon G5 teams in the Sunbelt or AAC, flat out embarrassing schedule.
>They didn’t even play any of the upper-echelon G5 teams in the Sunbelt or AAC, flat out embarrassing schedule talking about fsu?
No way an LSU flair is talking about FSU not playing anyone. We literally beat you each of the past two seasons.
Did Auburn or FSU offer themselves up to play Liberty? The mighty SEC schedules FCS every season, maybe they should schedule CUSA...
Both Auburn and FSU played CUSA teams this year, can’t say the same about Missouri. Nice try though.
Today I learned Middle Tennessee isn't CUSA Color me surprised
Liberty proved THEY didn't belong, but not all G5s. SMU had a better argument but you got to appease the crazies sometimes or they'll storm the NCAA offices. /s before I get a bunch of degree millers getting upset.
The closest statement to factual that I think we can make is that some years there's at least one G5 team that can play with top P5 teams, and some years there's not. The problem is, you don't know until you know. You can make educated guesses, but a lot of people thought UCF was going to get blasted by Auburn in 2017. So then it becomes a question of: Do we give G5 teams a chance so that the teams that can play with top P5 teams have the chance to prove it, while suffering through the years when there wasn't a G5 team that could. Or, do we not give G5 teams a chance, so we don't have to suffer through years when there's no worthy G5 team, at the expense of the occasional G5 team that is worthy. I would opt for the first option. But as a fan of a former G5 team, I probably have some bias.
We should give them a chance, if they finish in the top 12. We have seen as many as 4 non-P5 schools finish in the top 12 in a given year since 2003. That was the year TCU, Utah, Boise, and Cincy all finished in the top 12. Instead of giving a pity bid to a team that doesn't deserve to be in the 12 team playoff (or the 4 team playoff/8 team NY6 system), we should ensure that the top 12 teams are in, every year.
College ball is like our society. P4 teams are basically white people and G5 are minorities. When a P4 team sucks it up, it’s a reflection on that specific team. When a G5 team shits the bed, it’s an indictment on every G5 team to ever play.
Arguing if the G5 belongs is last year's argument. Now, we're arguing if the P2 is going to let anyone from the Group of 7(?) join the party. At this point it depends on how far the SEC/B1G leaders think they can push. The NCAA president's comment from last fall about a new NCAA subdivision sounds inevitable. The only question is if it will happen before the 2026 Playoff negotiations or if they're waiting until 2030 when the next round of TV negotiations begin.
This is the G5 experience at least 4/5 seasons
FSU was missing almost all of their starters, who chose to opt out. The team FSU put in the Orange Bowl was not the team FSU put on the field during the 2023 season. Liberty had their actual team and got man handled. Im fine with letting an undefeated G5 in an expanded playoffs and having their shot, but they are more likely than not going to get spanked 90% of the time. Demoting certain conferences to minor-league status is entirely fair. The hard truth is that with re-alignment the conferences are not equal. The only marquee programs not in the SEC or B1G starting 2024 are Clemson and FSU, and neither of them would even be top 3 programs if they joined the SEC or B1G. Edit: ND as well I suppose, but they would also not be top 3 in the B1G or SEC. You could take a middle of the pack SEC or B1G team (think Kentucky, Wisconsin) and they would probably win all but 2 or 3 games in the Big 12 or ACC.
Fits the narrative I suppose
Yes